Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

[fanne]

i would fire ss missile, pin point accuracy at all airports where stealth fighter will land or take off from. That included hardened pens as well.

[fanne]

The above is an existing capability that we have today!!

[Cain Marko]

Reality: Enemy has 3x Gen5 fighters in numerical superiority.

That's a problem only if you play the game on their terms.

A stealth fighter will enable them to swat down our Rambhas & Katrinas, and allow them to dominate our skies - that's the theory.

But from an engineering perspective what they are doing is not allowing an X-band radar to come within detection & fire-control range

But then, what if you choose to solve that engineering problem. For example:

1) high power ground based radars that operate in non-stealth bands. A dense grid of multi-static radars that are networked in real-time and able to immediately detect stealth aircraft (without a fire control solution). That's the awareness part

2) since India is a "missile superpower" we play to our strengths; we launch a large diameter long range SAMs towards the predicted direction; a 2-way data-link will reorient the missile if any change in direction is observed; a second /third missile may be launched from a spatially separated (but networked) launcher if the energy loss on the first missile is considered significant. Basically you form a kill box

3) once the missile is within a certain range, it turns on the large diameter nosecone's X/Ku band fire control radar and homes in; if this does not provide enough range, then perhaps we consider launching missiles in pairs...each pair has an Imaging-IR missile and an GaN AESA RF missile to ensure maximum kill probability; even better, let the missile pair talk to each other and share seeker information so the missile with the highest sensor score (GaN AESA RF or Imaging-IR) controls the other missile

Use the IADS to do the job and make it very hard for the stealth adversary to escape the kill box.
In conjunction, launch a Tejas Mk1A with a CATS Warrior to make life harder for the J20 fat dragon.
Reserve your 300+ Su-30/Rafale fighter fleet to launch standoff cruise missiles at the enemy and not to engage within your airspace. That's how you maintain a flexible deterrent

I think this was the plan with the iir mica and even the r27 ir version. It's also what the Russians are trying with the s400 + nebo radar system. It'll be hard to manage this with rf seeker on sams by themselves. But with a decent iir seeker and a combined salvo, it might be a good idea. The radar grid has to be very dense and multidirectional. The acquisition of the voronezh system along with the s400 and the local equivalent of the ultra long sam might just be the answer. Nevertheless India will need some form of high end stealth platform as tip of the spear, even a silver bullet force.

[ashishvikas]

L&T Prepares First Private-Sector Wings of Tejas

https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2025/ ... -lt/?amp=1

[uddu]

L&T Prepares First Private-Sector Wings of Tejas

https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2025/ ... -lt/?amp=1

Tejas flies on L&T wings as HAL completes production of last IOC fighter...

Read more at: https://www.onmanorama.com/news/india/2 ... ghter.html
Bengaluru: The last Light Combat Aircraft Tejas Mk1 fighter from the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) block has flown out of the hangars of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

And most significantly, it (SP-16; SP stands for Series Production) flew on the wings made by Larsen & Toubro (L&T). This is a major step in HAL’s efforts to outsource Tejas parts to the private industries, in line with the Make in India mandate.

Engineers in HAL familiar with the Tejas Mk1 production confirmed to Onmanorma that the L&T wings came to LCA Division in January this year.

“The full structure (both left and right wings) came from L&T and our teams completed the wiring and pipeline work within two months. This is a significant development in Tejas production,” an official said. Tejas SP-16 first flew on March 11 while SP-15 on March 22.

[Jayram]

Thats a 2020 news article!! Anatha K's beard was still in its infancy

[fanne]

I have a sneaky feeling that two parallel timeline universe have merged, some people are from the other universe. In that timeline all of this has already happened

[uddu]

Thats a 2020 news article!! Anatha K's beard was still in its infancy

Thats what it is. This wing thing by private players is not something new.

[maitya]

Jokes apart, there's a significant confusion wrt all these recent news items on HAL's private partner participation in the Mk1A production.

It's pretty easy (simple googling will do) to cite new-items from 2019-2021 timeframe, where the very same private partners were supplying the very same major components, for the SP series production campaign.
viz, Front Fuselage by Dynamatic Technologies Limited, Rear Fuselage by Alpha Tocol, Center Fuselage by VEM Technologies, Wing-set by L&T, Coimbatore and Tain-fin and Rudder by TASL and NAL.

Here's one such news item: Vayu Aerospace - Jan 2021 (Refer to pg 30)

So now, the question arises, what's new or different that has happened with the MK1A production campaign, that exactly the same "news" is getting published again - and worse with monikers like "... for the first time ..." etc.

Maybe there's something fundamental that we are missing here ...

[Rakesh]

From the official Twitter account of the MoD. What a new low of shamelessness from the MoD.

Quoting an article from TOI-let to celebrate the arrival of the very delayed 2nd turbofan from GE.

https://x.com/DefenceMinIndia/status/19 ... 5973444086 ---> India gets second GE-404 engine for LCA MK-1A, to receive 12 more by end of current fiscal.

[maitya]

X-Post from the Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion thread...

https://x.com/dotcom_1106/status/1942109709357715704 --->
...

Ok, so Arithmetic/Unitary-method time folks:

First notice the play of words in HAL CMDs quote above:
1) Wrt Engines: 1st in April'2025, 2nd by end-Jul'25 and 12 within this calendar year.
Which means 10 more between 1st Aug'25 and 31st Dec'25 - which is indeed 2 engines/month.

2) Aircraft Delivery - 12 aircraft will be delivered by end of this Fin year (i.e. 31st Mar'26).
Which means utilising these 12 engines (1 - Mar'25 + 1 - Jul'25 + 10 Aug-Dec'25), 12 MK1As will get delivered by Mar'26.

Out of which, 6 were recently paraded in public, in Bengaluru and presumably 1 more already ready in Nashik.
So these 7 are awaiting these being-delivered-engine integration and thus minimum 5 more platforms should be in final assembly, awaiting roll-out and flight testing (using Reserve engines).

Now what is left unsaid is, what these 3 Assembly lines will be doing between Jan'26 - Mar'26 - after all, to deliver something by Mar'26, it needs to be out of the assembly line and deep into flight testing by say Dec'25, isn't it?

And remember, 8-Platforms/Year/Assembly-line implies 2-Platforms/Qtr/Assembly-line. And there are 2.5 Assembly lines currently functional (will transition to full-fledged 3 Assembly lines from FY26-27 onwards).

[ashishvikas]

From the official Twitter account of the MoD. What a new low of shamelessness from the MoD.

Quoting an article from TOI-let to celebrate the arrival of the very delayed 2nd turbofan from GE.

https://x.com/DefenceMinIndia/status/19 ... 5973444086 ---> India gets second GE-404 engine for LCA MK-1A, to receive 12 more by end of current fiscal.

^^ While tweet was unwanted, it’s good that it’s being tracked by mainstream media and top MOD level.

[Prem Kumar]

^ I heard that the MoD got rightfully blasted for this on Twitter, for celebrating this shameful episode & for trying to pass it off as an Atmanirbhar project!!

[Prem Kumar]

....
Maybe there's something fundamental that we are missing here ...

The only thing worth celebrating would be a reduction in assembly times: say from 2 months to 2 weeks (due to automation, robotics, process improvements etc)

If an Elon Musk or Baba Kalyani took over HAL, they'd show how its done. And how the anemic 12 planes a year per assembly line, can be tripled

P.S. Of course, its a different matter that the order-size doesn't justify/motivate any such increase in rollout rates

[mody]

Another article on the wing assembly delivery by L&T.
https://www.msn.com/en-in/lifestyle/pet ... dcfe1&ei=9

There is definitely something that doesn't add up. What about the 32 IOC/FOC aircrafts? The wings for those were made by L&T or by HAL or now L&T has changed now changed the manufacturing process and there is something fundamentally different from the earlier wing assemblies supplied for the IOC and FOC aircrafts.

The article says that L&T will be supplying 4 sets of wings this year and will ramp up production to 12 sets.

Some more clarity is required on this issue.

[Tanaji]

What happened of those aircraft that were fitted with category B engines? Are those now being passed off as new deliveries?

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/19 ... 6494022019 --->

* 09 March 2025 - Alpha Tocol delivered First rear fuselage for Tejas MK1A

* 30 May 2025 - VEM delivered first centre fuselage for Tejas MK1A

* 17 July 2025 - L&T delivered First Set of wings for Tejas MK1A

[fanne]

One way to reconcile these double deliveries is this - Initial wing, front fuselage etc. is that that time it was for tejas FOC plane and current deliveries are for mk1a. Making each delivery first time for each kind of aircraft. The wings, fuselage for mk1a were further optimized for faster maintenance (hence technically a new design and hence new delivery).

[Khalsa]

What happened of those aircraft that were fitted with category B engines? Are those now being passed off as new deliveries?

Two things might happen Tanaji.
6 are fitted and test flying with B engines.
12 new engines are coming.

I have a feeling they are going to keep them with B engines and show delivery of a full squadron + trainers acting as reserves.
Sad but at least its a small win on the board.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1947262674212913304 ---> LCA Mk1A Wing sets from Larsen & Toubro.

[maitya]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1947262674212913304 ---> LCA Mk1A Wing sets from Larsen & Toubro.

Hope we do realize that had this been a cocured-cobonded tech based upper skin, there'd been none (actually a very few) of these laser drilled holes. You can compare it with LCAs Fin/Rudder assembly, if such a close-up view is available in open source.

Ofcourse, I doubt we have mastered (or imported) mfg of sufficiently large Autoclaves, to cocure-cobond wings of this size (and geometry) - maybe they can have sections of the wings manufactured using cocure-cobond tech and then join (rivet) them together.

What's been planned for AMCA, between?

[Rakesh]

Tejas Mk 1A set for missile test ahead of IAF delivery
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india ... -delivery/
28 July 2025

The aircraft is now ready for a ‘roll out,’ indicating that manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has completed testing on a number of planes for all required parameters.

[ashishvikas]

Rakesh Sir, quick check on delivery schedule.. how many were expected to be delivered by Mar-2026 ? I see below in page but not clear if they are calendar or Financial year.

Production/Delivery Schedule

Planned Deliveries of the Mk1A Single Seat Fighter - URL, 13 Aug 2021
• 2024: 2 aircraft
• 2025: 8 aircraft
• 2026: 14 - 16 aircraft
• 2027: 14 - 16 aircraft
• 2028: 14 - 16 aircraft
• 2029: 14 - 16 aircraft

[pravula]

A brand new type with a production run of 5 years? Who the frack approves this kind of nonsense?

[Rakesh]

Rakesh Sir,

Please no Sir

quick check on delivery schedule.. how many were expected to be delivered by Mar-2026 ? I see below in page but not clear if they are calendar or Financial year.

Production/Delivery Schedule

Planned Deliveries of the Mk1A Single Seat Fighter - URL, 13 Aug 2021
• 2024: 2 aircraft
• 2025: 8 aircraft
• 2026: 14 - 16 aircraft
• 2027: 14 - 16 aircraft
• 2028: 14 - 16 aircraft
• 2029: 14 - 16 aircraft

The above list is based on calendar year and were being tracked based on first flight. With no information coming in, it is hard to verify these numbers.

[Rakesh]

Tejas Mk 1A set for missile test ahead of IAF delivery
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india ... -delivery/
28 July 2025

The aircraft is now ready for a ‘roll out,’ indicating that manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has completed testing on a number of planes for all required parameters.

https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1950214159741616373 ---> With the induction of the AESA radar (ELM-2052) on Tejas Mk1A, a new integration cycle of the Astra Mk1 BVRAAM is underway. Earlier Astra Mk-1 integration on Tejas LSPs was based on mechanically scanned radar. The new AESA radar uses different signal processing, waveform generation, and data-link handling requiring fresh fire-control alignment & missile-radar interfacing. Updated Mission Computer & Stores Interface Unit (SIU) will enable seamless launch envelope computation.

[Aditya_V]

So if the Tejas Mk1A if fitted with the Uttam AESA, we will have to do this again or can we do it on the modified PV prototypes? I hope Astra Mk2 gets produced in high volumes soon.

[Rakesh]

So if the Tejas Mk1A if fitted with the Uttam AESA, we will have to do this again or can we do it on the modified PV prototypes? I hope Astra Mk2 gets produced in high volumes soon.

Can you please check your post for grammatical errors before posting? Makes it easier for readers who are following the thread. I keep editing your posts to correct them and I did so again above. Thank you for your co-operation in this matter.

[Aditya_V]

Sorry, I guess I will stop posting from mobile phones

[Rakesh]

An excellent thread on the Mk1A testbed.

https://x.com/accidentalproX/status/1950610493703405576 ---> A detailed thread on the LCA Mk1A Testbed which was seen flying from Banglaore and some discussions related to it's flight pattern. As per open source record we have from 12:04 pm IST to 1:36 pm IST ( ~2 hours ). If any data in the given thread if wrong please do notify.

[Rakesh]

Has GE delivered the second engine - this month - as per schedule? Or is it two engines, starting from August?

[ashishvikas]

Has GE delivered the second engine - this month - as per schedule? Or is it two engines, starting from August?

1 engine in July.
Schedule: 2/month starting Aug-25.

[Kartik]

Has GE delivered the second engine - this month - as per schedule? Or is it two engines, starting from August?

Yes they have. Which means as of now HAL has 2 brand new engines which then means that as soon as the Astra Mk1 trials are over, a proper "roll-out" can be done and those 2 Tejas Mk1As can be handed over to the No.3 Cobras to begin their operations. Thereafter the rate would be 1 per month or so as new engines arrive, are installed, ground tested, flight tested and then handed over.

[maitya]

Has GE delivered the second engine - this month - as per schedule? Or is it two engines, starting from August?

Yes they have. Which means as of now HAL has 2 brand new engines which then means that as soon as the Astra Mk1 trials are over, a proper "roll-out" can be done and those 2 Tejas Mk1As can be handed over to the No.3 Cobras to begin their operations. Thereafter the rate would be 1 per month or so as new engines arrive, are installed, ground tested, flight tested and then handed over.

Something is not adding up wrt this 1 aircraft/mth delivery schedule ... if there's already a sufficient backlog of platforms awaiting engines, then shouldn't the delivery schedule be 2/mth (after an initial lag of a couple of months), matching the engine delivery schedule?

[ashishmact]

One stupid question.

To me it seems the range of brv and stealth have become the two most imp factors in fighter aircraft.

[Kartik]

Yes they have. Which means as of now HAL has 2 brand new engines which then means that as soon as the Astra Mk1 trials are over, a proper "roll-out" can be done and those 2 Tejas Mk1As can be handed over to the No.3 Cobras to begin their operations. Thereafter the rate would be 1 per month or so as new engines arrive, are installed, ground tested, flight tested and then handed over.

Something is not adding up wrt this 1 aircraft/mth delivery schedule ... if there's already a sufficient backlog of platforms awaiting engines, then shouldn't the delivery schedule be 2/mth (after an initial lag of a couple of months), matching the engine delivery schedule?

It could well be 2 per month, assuming that 2 GE F-404 engines arrive each month. For now at least 1 engine per month is certain, which is why I felt that the rate would be 1 per month. Optimistically it could go up to 2 per month till March 2026.

[basant]

Let's not count chickens before they hatch. Today Trump threatened more measures within 24 hrs. Now the IAF can sit in a corner twindling thumbs or continue whining and badmouthing ADA and HAL to their heart's content on all occasions.

Be it China or the USA, many BRF armchair analysts sadly have been more realistic about imminent dangers in the policies of our Services, especially the IAF.

[isubodh]

Let's not count chickens before they hatch. Today Trump threatened more measures within 24 hrs. Now the IAF can sit in a corner twindling thumbs or continue whining and badmouthing ADA and HAL to their heart's content on all occasions.

Be it China or the USA, many BRF armchair analysts sadly have been more realistic about imminent dangers in the policies of our Services, especially the IAF.

The contract that HAL would have signed, would it not have any safe guards? GE can dictate all the terms of the contract.

[Rakesh]

Contracts signed with foreign OEMs are honoured, as the long as the leader sitting in that foreign country wishes to honour them. This has been especially true of the United States of America. Any safe guards written in the contract, can only be valid if both parties wish to honour them. Trump is unstable and unreliable. With India not backing down from his threats (via importing Russian oil), expect Trump to pull any trick out of his hat. He will throw everything (and the kitchen sink) at the wall and hope that something will stick.

The US-India strategic partnership is not a partnership at all, but rather one of servitude. Even today, US policy makers are visibly angry that India is not purchasing greater quantities of US hardware (especially fighter aircraft). This interoperability excuse - that is always thrown out by the US Govt and the US military - is just a veil for greater control of India's military. That America cannot be trusted, is a time tested and proven theory. America will never allow another country to rise and India is no different.

Now the chickens have come home to roost. Not a single player in India - multiple Govts (from the 80s!), Babus, Air HQ, GTRE, etc - had the vision to religiously fund our own engine program. Same with choosing an American OEM for our home grown Tejas program. The lack of insight - in both - is sad and criminal. The entire Tejas program now rests on the mercy of an Orange Orangutan that sits in the Oval Office and has an attention span lesser than that of a cockroach. This engine issue is also why the MRFA program refuses to die. This engine issue is why India will continue to import phoren fighter(s). We will pay the price for foolishness and stupidity.

==================================================

Be it China or the USA, many BRF armchair analysts sadly have been more realistic about imminent dangers in the policies of our Services, especially the IAF.

During the Single Engine saga (2016 to 2018), BRFites like NRao, sudeepj, YI Patel, Cosmo_R, ldev, KrishnaK and others were all in favour of F-16 production (via Tata). It is a credit to the Govt of India that this asinine idea never took off and India did not induct the F-16 into her Air Force. The yarn that was being doled on BRF from these Tier 1 industry experts - in the SE thread - was a sight to see. At that time, countering that US propaganda and asking questions on the F-16 deal - on BRF - was akin to us not being able to see the BIG picture and being narrow minded.

Now crow soup is in order for the above crowd

[sanjayc]

I wish LCA Tejas was built around a Russian or French engine, but I guess planners got obsessed with tech specs of engines (in which GE engines are the best) and did not consider strategic aspects. That was poor decision making.