India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[drnayar]

Flash news ..Trump finds oil in Pakistan

https://x.com/i/status/1950857295921057943

[pravula]

ot again, re: indigenous os developments, there was a person who created an entire os on his own, templeOS created by terry davis, a modern legend in many parts of the net

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS

Good point. Linux itself was created by one single individual - LInus Torvalds. We are all waiting for "the year of the Linux desktop" after 25 (?) years.

Just a nitpick, Linux is just a kernel, not a full system that most people would associate it with. Kernels are relatively easy, rest of the system software is not...Just look at the GUI wars on Linux systems.

[g.sarkar]

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/shou ... 250731.htm
Should India rethink US ties after Trump's Pak tilt?
Manash Pratim Bhuyan, July 31, 2025
US President Donald Trump's 25 percent tariffs on India, his "bullying tactics" and increasing attempts to hyphenate New Delhi with Islamabad are worrying signs after over two decades of unfettered upswing in bilateral ties, strategic affairs experts said on Thursday.
Trump's actions including his announcement on a trade deal with Pakistan and his offer of support to develop its "massive oil reserves" notwithstanding Islamabad's collusivity with Beijing reflected a "clear shift" in Washington's overall approach to the Indian sub-continent, they said.
India now cannot take the US for granted as a strategic partner and may have to resign to the possibility of dealing alone with massive challenges in the domains of semiconductors, critical defence technologies, energy and to combat terrorism, they argued.
The US president on Wednesday announced the 25 percent tariff on India from August 1 along with an unspecified "penalty" for buying "vast majority" of Russian military equipment and crude oil, adding India has the "most strenuous and obnoxious" non-monetary trade barriers.
As India was analysing the potential impact of the US tariffs on its exports, Trump again blasted New Delhi for its trade links with Russia, indicating a serious strain in the bilateral ties. "I don't care what India does with Russia. They can take their dead economies down together, for all I care."
The foreign policy experts said the current state of India-US relations has entered into a trajectory that is a total contrast to nearly two decades of rapid expansion in ties whose foundation was laid by President Bill Clinton's path-breaking visit to India in 2000.
The presidency of Barack Obama that began in 2009 marked a rapid stride in the ties.
Over the last few months, India and the US held several rounds of negotiations for a bilateral trade deal but it could not be sealed in view of sharp divergences in certain critical areas including agriculture and dairy.
"There is clearly a shift in US approach towards Pakistan after President Trump's meeting with Pakistan Army Chief Gen Asim Munir over a month back," said one of the experts on condition of anonymity.
It is particularly disturbing as the Trump administration is also appearing to be going noticeably soft on China, India's key adversary, said the expert.
While announcing Washington's trade deal with Islamabad, Trump also said that the US will work together on developing Pakistan's 'massive oil reserves'.
"We are in the process of choosing the oil company that will lead this partnership," the president said while half-jokingly adding: "Who knows, maybe they'll be selling oil to India some day!." The comments have not gone down well in India.
......
Gautam

[bala]

This is interesting. Mickeysoft is backing of on Nayara Energy.

The high-stakes confrontation between Microsoft and Rosneft-backed Nayara Energy has taken a dramatic turn. After Microsoft suspended services citing compliance with EU sanctions, Nayara Energy went to court—and just before the Delhi High Court hearing, Microsoft backed down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTM_gdbehhI

// Digital decoupling from the USA is a must, India is literally a digital colony of the USA behemoths in the digital space.

[Vayutuvan]

Kernels are relatively easy, rest of the system software is not...Just look at the GUI wars on Linux systems.

100% agree. It was difficult back in 2004 even when Wintel monopoly was just taking off.

The most visible case then was the abject failure of Munich, Germany to move to everything Linux.

A couple of links follow:

1. German city that ditched Windows for Linux wants to go back to Windows
   News
   by Radu Tyrsina
   published on August 22, 2015
   https://windowsreport.com/german-city-t ... -windows/
2. Munich City Government to Dump Linux Desktop
   By Jack M. Germain
   February 15, 2017 3:59 PM PT
   https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Muni ... 4307.html

[Vayutuvan]

Just look at the GUI wars on Linux systems.

IBM's OS/2, while superior in terms of modularity (as the WIndowing system was totally object oriented with subclassing of the GUI elements and OOO API hence could be easily customizable), got trounced in the market due to Bill Gates monopoly on Office products including spreadsheets. The motto of Bill Gates was "Windows ain't done until Lotus doesn't run".

[Vayutuvan]

India has developed several operating systems,

Eventually get rid of Oracle, MS SQL, Postgres and other systems.

PostgresQL is not bad, not bad at all. It is FLOSS and extremely capable even more capable than Oracle. MS SQL is the dumps.

(Added later) Kerberos protocol is from MIT. It is there for all to see. There maybe even a FLOSS implementation. If it from MIT, it could even be am MIT licensed, not GNU licensed.

[Vayutuvan]

Let us take this IT thread. TIA

[Vayutuvan]

This could be India's 21st-century Mangal Pandey moment

Meat fed dairy products reminds me of the pig fat and tallow greased cartridges.

[Vayutuvan]

99 F414 deal signed
[youtube...]WYF0LtZvM5s[/youtube]

When are they expected to be delivered?

[vera_k]

Think this was more about IBM rather than Bill.

Lotus Notes is now owned by HCL, and the download is functional.

The motto of Bill Gates was "Windows ain't done until Lotus doesn't run".

[A_Gupta]

Here's the thing about the IT trade.

US tech companies selling IT products & services benefited from the Indian skilled labor actually generating those products & services.

Moreover, Indian IT shops provided that labor at costs so low that US tech companies made enormous profits from those products & services.

Presumably Indian investors made rational decisions that maximized their own return on investment. Perhaps suitable for another thread, what were the policies or market barriers in place that kept Indian IT shops from generating those products & services for their own profit?

The East India Company and later the British Raj had military/political control and shut down any Indian industry that could compete. But in today's world, what was it that kep Indian IT from breaking out?

[bala]

(Added later) Kerberos protocol is from MIT. It is there for all to see. There maybe even a FLOSS implementation. If it from MIT, it could even be am MIT licensed, not GNU licensed.

Vayu ji that is all well known. The fact is Mickeysoft took two products created by others - Kerberos MIT and LDAP light weight directory access protocol from Sun Microsystems (later merged with Oracle) - and created Active Directory.

Similarly Indian product companies can do the same. The entire Apache code base is available for use. That includes big data processing which is what UPI (Hbase, hadoop etc) is based upon.

Our institutions like IITs and RECs and other engineering colleges can farm out such projects to final yr b.tech and m.tech heck even Ph.D candidates to submit their finals paper. In no time, we can have these national level projects which contribute to the India Stack of products. When the FinTech UPI stack has been proven, why cannot India branch of into such endeavors. Set aside 10,000 crores per yr instead of doling out freebies and see what happens. Our IAS babus don't have the vision to push for such things.

[Vayutuvan]

Think this was more about IBM rather than Bill.

Yeah. I think you are right. OS/2 failed due to several factors - Lotus getting replaced by Excel on PCs and paucity of device drivers. Same problem was faced by Unix/Linux and hence Linux Desktop never gained traction.

[Vayutuvan]

Our IAS babus don't have the vision to push for such things.

This and lack of imagination and risk averse nature of the consulting majors (and minors as @Sachin saar would like to say).

[Tanaji]

As you say, let’s take to IT thread @Vayutuvanji, will reply there

viewtopic.php?p=2655550#p2655550

[Amber G.]

Chhoti Chhoti Baatein, Badi Badi Tweets – Trump Bhai in Full Desi Mode!"

India obsession on 30th July
8.09 AM EST: 1st post, announces tariffs, penalty
8.11 AM: 2nd post, trade deficit
12.30 PM: At a presser, says India tariffs
3:52 PM: 3rd post, Announces Pak trade deal, swipe at India
12:00 AM: 4th post, says Indian economy dead

Right now the Demented Monkey's behavior reminds me of the Telugu Saying:
Asale Koti, tappa tagindi, nippu thokkindi.
(It is a monkey, dead drunk and stepped on burning coal)
Any day I would have preferred the Cackling Goose.

ఇంతవరకూ నేనేమన్నా ఓ మామూలు కోతినే ఊహించాను...
కానీ ఇప్పుడు చూపిస్తున్న దుర్వినియోగం చూస్తుంటే ఒక పాత నానుడి గుర్తొస్తోంది:
అసలే కోతి... తాగింది కూడా... అంతే కాకుండా నిప్పు మీద తొక్కింది!
(మరి ఇంకేం మిగిలింది? నాట్యం ఆడడం మిగిలిందే!)

ఈ బకబకల గద్దే అయినా మిన్న!
కూర్చొని అరుస్తూ ఉంటుంది, కోతి మాదిరిగా ఇంట్లో గోడలెక్కదూ!

MeanwhilePakistan set to receive first-ever US oil shipment: Report

[bala]

Just some numbers from US

Tariffs on South Asia that are going live Midnight Today

Pakistan 19 %
Bangaldesh 20%
India 25 %
Srilanka 20 %

Vietnam and Cambodia : 20 %and 19 %

https://twitter.com/user/status/1951068125144998337

Looks like Deep State and one faction (the faction of anti-India SoreAss&Co) have crunched their numbers. Inflation of goods in the US is going to go through the roof. This part of recoup of monies lost due to relocation of factories from China to other nations. Welcome to ECON 101 by Milton FriedBaumb LootNut.

[KL Dubey]

Pradeep Singh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW-jlXXYgi8

Gets to the heart of the matter in 20 minutes. Modi is a class apart - but a very inferior individual on the other side of the world is trying to match him and is coming out looking like a very poor quality (even worse than chinese quality) imitation.

[KL Dubey]

Right now the Demented Monkey's behavior reminds me of the Telugu Saying:
Asale Koti, tappa tagindi, nippu thokkindi.
(It is a monkey, dead drunk and stepped on burning coal)
Any day I would have preferred the Cackling Goose.

Similar sanskrit saying: "markaTasya surApAnam madhye vrshchika-damshanam |tanmadhye bhUtasanchAro yadvA-tadvA bhavishyati ||

"There is no accounting for the behavior of a monkey who is drunk, meanwhile got bitten by a scorpion, and possessed by a ghost"

[ricky_v]

piyush goyal's remarks in ls re: the tarrifs, dead economy

tl;dw: we have had meaningful discussions with our us counterparts, we will engage all stakeholders re: the new measures, we will not compromise agri and msme; all on expected lines i believe

Honorable Councils Honorable President G Jai Shri Ram Honorable Piyush Goyal Ji Honorable President has been discussed on the important statement. Keep the dignity of the house. Let's sit. I would like to make the House aware of the statement given by the US President on 1 August 2025 on the subject of the Teriff applied to bilateral trade from 1 August 2025. On April 2, 2025, the US President issued an executive order on the reciperooky Teriff under which his business partners were asked to impose additional duty from 10% to 50% on imports.

Was. The baseline duty of 10% has come into effect from 5 April 2025. A total of 26% was announced on India, including additional duty of 10%, with a baseline terror of 10%. Originally Full Country Spastic Additional Teriff was scheduled to be effective from April 9, 2025. But it was initially postponed for 90 days on 10 April 2025. And later it was further extended by 1 August 2025. India and the United States started negotiations for BTA in March 2025, a justified and mutually beneficial bilateral trade agreement, which targets 2025 Fall i.e. on November November 2025

The first phase was to be completed. The two sides finalized a detailed Terms of Reference TOR to start a bilateral trade agreement conversation during the discussion of the first physical meeting held in New Delhi on 29 March 2025. After this, there has been physical meetings between the two sides in four rounds in New Delhi and Washington DC to work for the final form of bilateral trade agreement according to the prescribed Terms of Reference. Apart from this, there have been many virtual meetings between the two sides. Government recently

Testing the effects of developments. The Ministry of Commerce and Industry is interacting with exporters and all stakeholders including industry and taking information about their assessment on this subject. The government gives supreme importance to protect and promote the welfare of our farmers, workers, entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, exporters, micro and medium industries and all stakeholders of the industry. We take all necessary steps to secure and pursue our national interests.

the transcript generated is a bit wonky

[Deans]

X posting here, given the US angle in my latest blog article:

Henry Kissinger said `It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend, is fatal. To understand what being America's friend meant to Afghans, an Afghan army officer shared his story for my blog. A story on fighting the Taliban and how America abandoned them, to the heart wrenching time he was abandoned, as Kabul fell.
My article also features a first person account from a student in Kabul, on life under the Taliban.

https://rpdeans.blogspot.com/2025/07/fi ... fghan.html

[chetak]

why are the "farmers" so very quiet, especially the jat lobby. not a word, not a peep from this usually very vocal, publicity seeking and entitled lot of "nation builders"

don't their leaders have the spine and testicular fortitude to speak up and support the govt, or are they waiting for instructions from the woke soreass and deep state commie "leaders" to reach out and activate their congi handlers

[Cybaru]

Just some numbers from US

Tariffs on South Asia that are going live Midnight Today

Pakistan 19 %
Bangaldesh 20%
India 25 %
Srilanka 20 %

Vietnam and Cambodia : 20 %and 19 %

https://twitter.com/user/status/1951068125144998337

Looks like Deep State and one faction (the faction of anti-India SoreAss&Co) have crunched their numbers. Inflation of goods in the US is going to go through the roof. This part of recoup of monies lost due to relocation of factories from China to other nations. Welcome to ECON 101 by Milton FriedBaumb LootNut.

What deep state now? I thought trump was in charge? Or is that deep state? What does Soros have to tariffs out of WH? Is this deep state/soros thing coping mechanism? This administration is transactional in nature. No long term alignment here.

[Raja]

It is a coping mechanism for all the Indian Trump fan boys who didn't realize how good India had relatively under the previous administration. Trump administrations actions months after one of the worst terrorist attack from Pakistan speak on their own. Blaming Sorors and deep state helps then keep at it. From my end, "Sleepy Joe" looks 10x better for Indian prosperity and security.

[gakakkad]

I voted for him but I regret doing that now .

[g.sarkar]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tec ... 039957.cms
Billionaire Harsh Goenka on Trump's 25% tariff on
India: No need to panic... knowing India Inc, we
will do what ...
TIMESOFINDIA.COM | Aug 1, 2025
Sharing his thoughts on the 25% tariff imposed by US President Donald Trump on Indian exports, he said that
India should remain calm and try to work to convert this challenge as an opportunity. In a post on X Goenka
wrote, “25% tariff? Sounds steep. But no need to panic. India, in fact, remains better positioned than many peers,
barring a few like Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia and South Korea.
Looking at our own RPG portfolio:
Software: No impact
Pharma: No impact
Infra & Towers: Barely a scratch
Tyres: Only agri tyres meaningfully impacted
And knowing India Inc, we will do what we do best- find innovative workarounds, turn adversity into advantage,
and bring some classic jugaad into play. And who knows, with some clever diplomacy, TACO (Tariff and
Commerce Optimization) and not (Trump Always Chickens Out), might just become part of the next trade meal
deal.”
Goenka further stated that India’s IT, pharmaceutical and steel sectors will largely remain untouched by this tariff
announcement. Goenka’s confident stance reflects a belief that Indian businesses, known for their agility and
entrepreneurial spirit, will not be deterred by protectionist measures. “Trump’s 25% tariff on India? -opportunities:
......
Gautam

[chetak]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tec ... 039957.cms
Billionaire Harsh Goenka on Trump's 25% tariff on
India: No need to panic... knowing India Inc, we
will do what ...
TIMESOFINDIA.COM | Aug 1, 2025
Sharing his thoughts on the 25% tariff imposed by US President Donald Trump on Indian exports, he said that
India should remain calm and try to work to convert this challenge as an opportunity. In a post on X Goenka
wrote, “25% tariff? Sounds steep. But no need to panic. India, in fact, remains better positioned than many peers,
barring a few like Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia and South Korea.
Looking at our own RPG portfolio:
Software: No impact
Pharma: No impact
Infra & Towers: Barely a scratch
Tyres: Only agri tyres meaningfully impacted
And knowing India Inc, we will do what we do best- find innovative workarounds, turn adversity into advantage,
and bring some classic jugaad into play. And who knows, with some clever diplomacy, TACO (Tariff and
Commerce Optimization) and not (Trump Always Chickens Out), might just become part of the next trade meal
deal.”
Goenka further stated that India’s IT, pharmaceutical and steel sectors will largely remain untouched by this tariff
announcement. Goenka’s confident stance reflects a belief that Indian businesses, known for their agility and
entrepreneurial spirit, will not be deterred by protectionist measures. “Trump’s 25% tariff on India? -opportunities:
......Gautam

Gautam ji,

25% may just be the card that trumpwa opened with

trumpwa's visceral hatred simply means that no sector is off limits

this guy lies through his teeth and can u-turn on a dime

goenka is smoking some pretty potent stuff, if he thinks that anything is cast in stone

luckily, Modi ji knows how to play bodyline bowling, and he cut his teeth on bouncers aimed at his head

[A_Gupta]

Exclusive: Indian state refiners pause Russian oil purchases, sources say
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 025-07-31/

India Tells Oil Refiners to Draw Up Plans for Non-Russian Crude
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/india-oi ... 16862.html

[drnayar]

Exclusive: Indian state refiners pause Russian oil purchases, sources say
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 025-07-31/

India Tells Oil Refiners to Draw Up Plans for Non-Russian Crude
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/india-oi ... 16862.html

- Indian state refiners have stopped buying Russian oil in the past week as discounts narrowed this month
"Bloomberg-- India told its oil refiners to come up with plans for buying non-Russian crude, a scenario that would have far-reaching consequences for the global oil market if it ultimately meant reduced dealings with Moscow."

Both Bloomberg and Reuters are known to push anti india narratives., i would wait for official views

[A_Gupta]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvn35dej19o

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio has said that Delhi's relationship with Moscow remains a "point of irritation" in India-US ties.
Rubio's statement comes a day after US President Donald Trump said he would impose 25% tariffs on Indian goods "plus an unspecified penalty", for buying Russian oil and weapons.

In an interview to Fox News Radio on Thursday, Rubio called India an "ally" and "strategic partner" but added that Delhi's purchase of Russian oil was hampering its relationship with Washington.

[Ambar]

Exclusive: Indian state refiners pause Russian oil purchases, sources say
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 025-07-31/

India Tells Oil Refiners to Draw Up Plans for Non-Russian Crude
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/india-oi ... 16862.html

- Indian state refiners have stopped buying Russian oil in the past week as discounts narrowed this month
"Bloomberg-- India told its oil refiners to come up with plans for buying non-Russian crude, a scenario that would have far-reaching consequences for the global oil market if it ultimately meant reduced dealings with Moscow."

Both Bloomberg and Reuters are known to push anti india narratives., i would wait for official views

We already started buying oil from Iraq - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 025-07-30/

The question is what does this do to the oil market come winter. Another interesting bit is about our exports, after the Russia-Ukraine war, we overnight became one of the largest refined oil exporter in the world, we exported an estimated $80b+ of refined petroleum products, mostly to Europe. So rupee may come under renewed pressure in the weeks and months to come.

[chetak]

Trade deals take many years to negotiate, and such agreements often run into many thousands of pages of legalese, written, translated, verified and certified in multiple languages, if one of the countries is non english speaking, like france, or germany for instance.

they have off ramps, if certain conditions are triggered, like dumping, surging of exports etc

these so called trump tariff deals are primarily headline seeking in their intent. There is no declared mechanism to enforce them. If the amrikis do what the eu tried to do, like trying to grab off shore sovereign russki assets held in third countries, like the goras are trying to steal russki assets held in UK, or france etc to "punish" russia and claim some sort of reparations for the war in ukraine, the blowback could be horrendous.

Many countries have already repatriated their gold holdings abroad back to their own countries as a precaution against such illegal seizures, just like India herself has done

so what will be vulnerable are the investments in other countries and their "theft" by the mechanism of punishment under tariff terms for breaking some opportunistic and self serving amriki imposed sanctions

so, what happens to the much touted "rules based" international order.

or is it back to ye olde colonial times and the days of robber barons, operating under the time honored traditions of: jiski lathi, uski bhains, with a touch of the imaginatively interpreted doctrine of discovery, based on economic, security, and geopolitical dependencies and criteria tailored to the imagined or concocted needs of the major player seeking newer hooks to hang the freshly improvised sanction and the accompanying tariff to enrich the amriki state which has effectively mismanaged itself into a state of economic and socially irrelevant comatose state

[saip]

I voted for him but I regret doing that now .

Ha, buyers' remorse! But there are people who say (misquoting Shakespeare) 'Not that I love Orange Monkey more, but that I hate India/Kamala/Biden/Democrats/Modi/...... More'.

[chetak]

Looks like nobody in the Trump administration has read Stephen Cohen

[g.sarkar]

I voted for him but I regret doing that now .

Ha, buyers' remorse! But there are people who say (misquoting Shakespeare) 'Not that I love Orange Monkey more, but that I hate India/Kamala/Biden/Democrats/Modi/...... More'.

Saipji,
I was unable to vote in the last two elections, as I find Bidenwa/Kamala to be anti Indian, and DJT to be anti immigrant. I hope that the two parties will put up better candidates next election.
Gautam

[ricky_v]

Looks like nobody in the Trump administration has read Stephen Cohen

looks like it is not only the posters here experiencing the phenomenon of "time is a flat circle" but the us establishment as well, the writer, if not a literal child, should know that all of that has occurred before and will occur again, the pakis are jobless, for the right amount, forget senior officials, their president himself will come and serve tea, the security is the mai baap, they will wine and dine, maybe even take you on the tour to one of their posh areas, all the while shining their begging silver and terror establishment simultaneously, only bemoaning that their only issue is that of image which india keeps maligning in the global context

i think the gotus will commit the same errors in (character) judgement as those in the past, if only to bring down india a peg or two, and as quick as that, the pakis will have recovered their one time patron, the chinis must necessarily satiate themselves with self-satisfaction in the interim, while india dusts off old playbooks

[A_Gupta]

They likely fired everyone in the State Department with institutional memory of Pakistan. Hail DOGE!

[Vayutuvan]

They likely fired everyone in the State Department with institutional memory of Pakistan. Hail DOGE!

More likely that they left and joined lobbying firms and are getting monies from Paapistan.

[bala]

To use a US Baseball analogy: "calling balls and strikes" which means the umpire's judgement of whether the ball was pitched into the strike zone of the batter. In BRF we are going to call balls and strikes, does not matter whether it is Dems/Repubs. The trade tariffs with India are "ball" by DJT, similarly handling op sindoor by the US is "ball". The trade negotiation team is infiltrated by the Deep State monkeys behind the scenes, DJT is not involved in all of them, he is just the loud mouth that announces the final deal, maybe he adds 1 or two here and there depending on his mood for the day. The list of nations at the receiving end of this nonsensical numbers is very long. There is also the angle of personal enrichment going on with some nations, e.g. stablecoin and taking over oil exploration and things like that.