Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

[Rakesh]

Indian Air Force to get advanced indigenous smart anti-airfield weapon for fighter jet fleet
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 617204558/
17 June 2025

[Prem Kumar]

AoN granted in 2020

RM Rajnath Singh presents SAAW to the then AIr Chief in Dec 2021

They are *thinking* about inductions after Pahalgam/Sindoor happens ..... in 2025

All this while busily importing Crystal Maze, Rampage, Spice, Sambar powder etc while SAAW, Rudram, G-series are all languishing

Don't miss this sentence in the report: "DRDO is offering SAAW for emergency procurement". They know that if the don't "offer", the lion's share of the 30K Crore emergency procurement will go to screwdriver imports Joint Venture, Made-in-India, 100% pure Atmanirbhar by Adani

[ernest]

AoN granted in 2020

RM Rajnath Singh presents SAAW to the then AIr Chief in Dec 2021

They are *thinking* about inductions after Pahalgam/Sindoor happens ..... in 2025

All this while busily importing Crystal Maze, Rampage, Spice, Sambar powder etc while SAAW, Rudram, G-series are all languishing

Don't miss this sentence in the report: "DRDO is offering SAAW for emergency procurement". They know that if the don't "offer", the lion's share of the 30K Crore emergency procurement will go to screwdriver imports Joint Venture, Made-in-India, 100% pure Atmanirbhar by Adani

another data point- it was considered for Balakot ops in 2019. We had 2 rounds of emergency imports after that, including Galwan. Still not ordered.

[Rakesh]

Here we go again....

Scouting for 6 mid-air refuellers, IAF begins technical evaluation
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... -10096665/\
30 June 2025

The IAF currently operates a fleet of six Ilyushin Il-78MKI tankers procured from Uzbekistan in 2003-04.

[Rakesh]

India looking at option of buying more S-400 air defence systems from Russia
https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 627195741/
27 June 2025

[Rakesh]

What are 'game-changer' Air Lora missiles? Report claims Indian Air Force is planning to procure these from Israel
https://www.theweek.in/news/defence/202 ... srael.html
03 July 2025

Indian Air Force is mulling the procurement of Israel-made Air Lora air-launched ballistic missiles, which offer accurate and survivable attack capabilities

[Cybaru]

Here we go again....

Scouting for 6 mid-air refuellers, IAF begins technical evaluation
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... -10096665/\
30 June 2025

The IAF currently operates a fleet of six Ilyushin Il-78MKI tankers procured from Uzbekistan in 2003-04.

Turn one of the older transport Il-76 into a flying testbed or get a used 747 please! We have options to help ourselves...

[Jay]

Turn one of the older transport Il-76 into a flying testbed or get a used 747 please! We have options to help ourselves...

We have the options, and the moolah but just not the will to do it or so it seems.

[V_Raman]

What happened to the excess AI Airbus planes that were going to be converted to fuellers?

[putnanja]

Not excess AI airplanes, some AI A320/319 planes were withdrawn from service for AEWS role, not for refuelling platforms. Six Airbus planes were supposed to be used for the next gen AEWS for India. ADE was supposed to work with Airbus to modify these planes for AEWS use. Not sure what the status is.

For refuelling, they wanted to consider Airbus A330MRTT but that fell through. Then they were looking at leasing some Being 767 based refuellers from Japan. Looks like nothing worked out for it

[Prem Kumar]

What are 'game-changer' Air Lora missiles? Report claims Indian Air Force is planning to procure these from Israel
https://www.theweek.in/news/defence/202 ... srael.html
03 July 2025

Indian Air Force is mulling the procurement of Israel-made Air Lora air-launched ballistic missiles, which offer accurate and survivable attack capabilities

While Rudram induction is kept waiting ....

Bonus question: how many summer, winter, hot-n-high, cool-n-low, desert & high-altitude trials of Rampage, Scalp, Hammer or Crystal Maze were conducted before their induction?

[Rakesh]

Indian Air Force gets future ready, scripts ‘unmanned force plan’
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 776904.ece
05 July 2025

https://x.com/Arun_Golaya/status/1942046541583204662 --->

[Rakesh]

Below report is from the IAF's AH-64 Apache fleet

https://x.com/wartrophy_414/status/1946989446680703293 ---> Indian Military has bought Hellfire ATGMs that are 14-16 year old when they were delivered to them and bought from US Army stocks, but HELINA orders ke liye excuses bohot mil jayenge internet pe.

https://x.com/ShiroBarks/status/1946990313366855977 ---> "Thus Ministry had procured Missiles which were 14 to 16 year old at the time of delivery. By that time, these missiles will be delivered the life as well as 50 per cent of refurbished life of these missiles would have been expired." But won't buy brand new stuff from DRDO.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ShiroBarks/status/1947221124171059492 ---> A farce in the name of procurement, disqualify everyone with unrealistic specs, then quietly dilute them to suit select vendors. This wasn’t evaluation; it was engineered exclusion.

https://x.com/Neetivaan/status/1947218628967125103 ----> Acquisition of Apache Helis

> ASQR formed
> so stringent that the companies making Helis said they won't entertain
> reviewed the ASQR
> admitted the mistake
> 35 parameters modified
> 9 parameters removed
> 26 parameters were diluted
> requirement of 20mm pod gun removed

But yes, dismissing all this by calling people jokers, clout chasers, AC room experts, or saying they’re just sitting and tweeting on Wi-Fi is the real service.

[Rakesh]

India’s fighter airbase in eastern Ladakh set for October takeoff; a second road to DBO by 2026
https://www.deccanherald.com/india/indi ... -2-3638767
19 July 2026

Stage set for IAF to operate its fighter jets from a base at an altitude of 11,000 feet.

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1946816546153922582 --->

- Mudh air base at Nyoma, 50 km from the LAC to be ready by October 2025, will host fighters
- Sasoma-Sasser La-Sasser Brangsa-Gapshan-DBO link by 2026, has nine 40 ton capacity bridges that would be converted to Class-70
- Link open from March - Nov, proposal for Sasser La tunnel being prepared.

[Rakesh]

Ladakh: India Prepares For Next Standoff With China As Nyoma Airfield Close To LAC Nears Completion
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/ladakh- ... completion
24 July 2025

https://x.com/rajatpTOI/status/1948216121414611258 ---> In a boost to military capabilities close to the Line of Actual Control, the crucial Mudh airfield project in the high-altitude Nyoma area in eastern Ladakh all set to be completed by October. India, of course, has a long way to go to narrow the huge infrastructure gap with China. China has systematically worked over the last 5 years to offset the terrain constraints at its airbases facing India due to high-altitude and rarefied air, which limits the weapon and fuel-carrying capacity of aircraft. With new/extended runways, hardened shelters, fuel & ammo storage facilities, China has deployed more jets, including advanced J-20 stealth fighters, as well as bombers, recon aircraft & drones at its airfields like Hotan, Kashgar, Gargunsa, Shigatse, Bangda, Nyingchi & Hoping.

[Cybaru]

LOL - that Apache won't be flying from that airfield... Rajat - use LCH picture... SMH...

[Rakesh]

LOL - that Apache won't be flying from that airfield... Rajat - use LCH picture... SMH...

Post of the year!!!

[Cybaru]

F*** it will be like me trying to run after two plates of biryani! No juice in those engines at that altitude... there is a reason we still use the damn cheetah and chetak....

[Manish_P]

Please don't underestimate our Procurement system

We will put RFP for the helis. And then wait a decade or two to buy upgraded engines to get them to operate from the heights.

So what if at those heights the max payload which the bird can carry will be 2 plates of Biryani....

[Prem Kumar]

The gushing news articles and quotes by our Officers on Apache delivery are a sight to behold: "flying tank", "tank buster" - a veritable Sahasranama of epithets

All for a paltry 3 choppers. Our Prachand will kick both Apache and enemy ass in those high altitudes but get none of the love

[Rakesh]

Post-Op Sindoor, IAF, Navy to place mega orders for BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles
https://aninews.in/news/national/post-o ... 805133743/
05 August 2025

[Karan M]

Post-Op Sindoor, IAF, Navy to place mega orders for BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles
https://aninews.in/news/national/post-o ... 805133743/
05 August 2025

The orders weren't mega but should be sufficient for a short, sharp round 2 with Pak. Numbers in open domain suggest 100 units for IAF Flankers. The more interesting thing is 87 RPAs for tri services plus the 31 MQ-9Bs. This is a massive update from the "UAVs are useless in contested airspace" attitude we had earlier. Indicates IA, IAF may now use armed UAVs to police the border versus just manpower. If so, welcome move and will make life much harder for the jihadi crowd. Of course other uses casessucg as surveillance, ELINT etc still apply.

[Karan M]

The gushing news articles and quotes by our Officers on Apache delivery are a sight to behold: "flying tank", "tank buster" - a veritable Sahasranama of epithets

All for a paltry 3 choppers. Our Prachand will kick both Apache and enemy ass in those high altitudes but get none of the love

You were right all along on how underwhelming the Apache acquisition was.

I get we do a lot of geopolitical purchases at times. But the AF should procure assets that provide them better bang for the buck.

[drnayar]

The gushing news articles and quotes by our Officers on Apache delivery are a sight to behold: "flying tank", "tank buster" - a veritable Sahasranama of epithets

All for a paltry 3 choppers. Our Prachand will kick both Apache and enemy ass in those high altitudes but get none of the love

You were right all along on how underwhelming the Apache acquisition was.

I get we do a lot of geopolitical purchases at times. But the AF should procure assets that provide them better bang for the buck.

Quite true..Apaches will likely be in token quantities only and likely phased out in a decade or so. No doubt LCH Rudra variants will surpass their over hyped capabilities

[basant]

Well, one utility that is money's worth is in getting first hand insights into Apaches to better our products such as LCH. Like what China did with Russian equipment. Of course, ours would skip the unnecessary reverse engineering step.

[pravula]

IIRC, we were gonna use the apache long bow as a battle field coordinator. LCH still lacks radars right?

[drnayar]

IIRC, we were gonna use the apache long bow as a battle field coordinator. LCH still lacks radars right?

The longbow uses Mmw radar for tracking and targeting,not exactly bleeding edge tech !! It was decades back.

[pravula]

IIRC, we were gonna use the apache long bow as a battle field coordinator. LCH still lacks radars right?

The longbow uses Mmw radar for tracking and targeting,not exactly bleeding edge tech !! It was decades back.

Sure, but LCH does not have it. In that same vein, GE404 is not exactly bleeding tech either....

[Rakesh]

As lesson from Op Sindoor, Indian Air Force to focus on inducting long-range missiles
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 812202123/
12 Aug 2025

[Jay]

Sure, but LCH does not have it. In that same vein, GE404 is not exactly bleeding tech either....

Seeing as Apache's are not that useful in the Eastern sector, doesn't that relegate them to the western border, and what exactly do they bring to the kill chain/OODA loop, in this sector that a UAV cannot?

[pravula]

Sure, but LCH does not have it. In that same vein, GE404 is not exactly bleeding tech either....

Seeing as Apache's are not that useful in the Eastern sector, doesn't that relegate them to the western border, and what exactly do they bring to the kill chain/OODA loop, in this sector that a UAV cannot?

Which UAV?

[Jay]

Seeing as Apache's are not that useful in the Eastern sector, doesn't that relegate them to the western border, and what exactly do they bring to the kill chain/OODA loop, in this sector that a UAV cannot?

Which UAV?

Let's say MQ-9 for arguments sake.

[pravula]

Which UAV?

Let's say MQ-9 for arguments sake.

Say 100+ shaheed-ski are incoming. What can a MQ-9 do and at what cost vs an Apache-64D

[Jay]

Let's say MQ-9 for arguments sake.

Say 100+ shaheed-ski are incoming. What can a MQ-9 do and at what cost vs an Apache-64D

ok. What can an Apache do in this situation and if you are picking a random number, why only 100? BTW, I'm not arguing with you nor I'm here to nitpick your points. I want to know how an Apache is effective in this situation and why IAF treats it as unobtanium compared to other systems, so please, elaborate.

[Prem Kumar]

The orders weren't mega but should be sufficient for a short, sharp round 2 with Pak. Numbers in open domain suggest 100 units for IAF Flankers. The more interesting thing is 87 RPAs for tri services plus the 31 MQ-9Bs. This is a massive update from the "UAVs are useless in contested airspace" attitude we had earlier. Indicates IA, IAF may now use armed UAVs to police the border versus just manpower. If so, welcome move and will make life much harder for the jihadi crowd. Of course other uses casessucg as surveillance, ELINT etc still apply.

Still at the DAC stage. Not holding my breath

What's annoying though is the complete lack of orders for Pralay. We should be inducting those in the 1000s to flatten PAF airbases

And the 87 RPAs are not IDDM, though we have Tapas & Archer, which continue to be treated like step-children. We will do import-giri again. Adani Defence & other JV-baniyas will be happy.

[pravula]

Say 100+ shaheed-ski are incoming. What can a MQ-9 do and at what cost vs an Apache-64D

ok. What can an Apache do in this situation and if you are picking a random number, why only 100? BTW, I'm not arguing with you nor I'm here to nitpick your points. I want to know how an Apache is effective in this situation and why IAF treats it as unobtanium compared to other systems, so please, elaborate.

100 seems like a nice number. With its networked features, it can hand off targets to other shooters including uav, manpads etc. if not, I agree, it’s not any better than other airborne radar systems

[bala]

Seeing as Apache's are not that useful .. and what exactly do they bring to the kill chain/OODA loop

Agreed with you Jay. Most moronic decision - this Apache buying by IAF/IA is a vanity project, such a waste, they could have used it to buy more LUH helos instead and of course LCH.

[gakakkad]

I think some things were bought just to keep Yankees at bay ..like apache and striker