Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

[V_Raman]

So can we get the RM12 or is that also subject to same supply chain constraints as the 404/414?

[Rakesh]

So can we get the RM12 or is that also subject to same supply chain constraints as the 404/414?

RM12 = F404

[konaseema]

Irrespective of how the deal for GE-414 goes, we might end up with a Mk2A at some point with a different engine, other than GE-414.

[ritesh]

Shouldn't we concentrate our energies on AMCA and keep building more Mk1A instead?

[drnayar]

Shouldn't we concentrate our energies on AMCA and keep building more Mk1A instead?

all the tech is not mature yet..think of it as a roadmap of Indian fighter evolution

tejas mk1 --mk 1a -- mk 2 -- [tedbf/orca] -- AMCA -- [future heavy]

take in lead times for prototyping and production [ 5 to 10 yr]

take in tech obsolesence [ quite rapid !] [ mostly in 5 years ]

tejas is built to be upgradable from ground up but changes to basic airframe means stealth evolution, almost all aircraft in future [ 2040+] would need to be stealthy

you need each step .. or fall behind the curve as the europeans are now learning ., they are stuck with a lemon as no viable 5th gen alternatives

[pravula]

Shouldn't we concentrate our energies on AMCA and keep building more Mk1A instead?

all the tech is not mature yet..think of it as a roadmap of Indian fighter evolution

tejas mk1 --mk 1a -- mk 2 -- [tedbf/orca] -- AMCA -- [future heavy]

take in lead times for prototyping and production [ 5 to 10 yr]

take in tech obsolesence [ quite rapid !] [ mostly in 5 years ]

tejas is built to be upgradable from ground up but changes to basic airframe means stealth evolution, almost all aircraft in future [ 2040+] would need to be stealthy

you need each step .. or fall behind the curve as the europeans are now learning ., they are stuck with a lemon as no viable 5th gen alternatives

Its more like this imho. Heavy will be a dual engine

tejas mk1 --mk 1a -- mk 2 -
|-- AMCA
|-- [tedbf/orca] -- [future heavy]

[Rakesh]

Negotiations to start soon on GE engine for Tejas Mk2 jets
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... -10207621/
24 August 2025

French major Safran to power indigenous 5th-gen AMCA

[ritesh]

Shiv's youtube video is out on LCA...Interesting points he makes. Gist of the video is, why the govt couldn't have ordered tejas in big numbers, earlier. And time taken for TD... LSP... and subsequent IOC and FOC updates and timeline.

Should 200 Tejas have been ordered much earlier? If so, when?

[Rakesh]

Shiv's youtube video is out on LCA...Interesting points he makes.

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[LakshmanPST]

Shifting from Tejas Mk1A thread to here...

I don’t see any grand conspiracy- who benefits if the MK1A or MK.2 are ordered?

IAF were fiddling with the MK.2 right up to the last moment, 4 different major design specs in since ~2010s? Then Modi or Simone inside his govt made the still unexplained and egregious decision to link full funding of the MK.2 to the 414 TOT deal even after the CCS had cleared the MK.2 leading to 1-2 years of further delays for absolutely nothing

Anyway it is where it is, unserious people make unserious countries and it’s no wonder all IDDM programs are part failures with this buffoonery behind the scenes.

As it is there’s ample room to absorb 200+ MK1A and 200+ MK.2, ANI are weirdly saying as much now. Will it require the IAF abandoning their 30 year old MMRCA dreams? Maybe but they’ll definitely get at least another 2-3 Rafale squadrons off the shelf so maybe towards the end of this decade they can get their wish of absorbing 30-40 jets a year at least for 2-3 years, if they have the capacity to absorb such huge numbers is a different story

My comment was specific to Tejas Mk2...
Many here still remember that back in 2021, there was news articles saying that metal-cutting has started and 1st prototype of Tejas Mk2 will be rolled out by 2022...
Anantha Krishnan's interviews with ADA engineers also said the same... The video is still on Youtube, where the Engineer claims that Tejas Mk2 will be rolled out in Aug 2022 and world will be in awe looking at it...
Then the news came in mid 2022 that roll out is shifted to early 2023...
Suddenly, out of nowhere, timelines shifted by 3 more years...
-
It is literally 4-5 years of unexplained delay...
Engine TOT is one thing, but why did they give out all those dates of prototypes...?
I might be overthinking with my CTs... But what exactly was happening in the background...?

[Prem Kumar]

As much as IAF has to cop the blame for their MRFA fetish, lack of support for indigenization etc, HAL isn't smelling of roses either

As you point out, we see blatant shifting of Tejas-MK2 timelines with no sense of shame. They moved Mk2 rollout by 3-6 months just within this year. None of our defense journalists have asked the HAL Chairman tough questions about delays, work-culture etc

For Mk1a also, they tried to sweep their lapses in radar/weapons certification under the GE-404 carpet

Given what I am hearing about their chai-biskoot, 5 hrs/day work-culture, I am not surprised that the IAF Chiefs are skeptical. In fact, given the stories, I am majorly surprised that they managed to rollout world-class Tejas & Dhruv at all! There may be 20% of people there who are hard-working & passionate, who carry the remaining 80% deadweight

[Rakesh]

Tejas Mk2 rollout date pushed out yet again. 10 F414 turbofans have been delivered to date.

HAL to deliver 2 Tejas Mk-1A aircraft in October despite engine delays
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/h ... 2025-09-04
04 Sept 2025

The more advanced LCA Mk2 is scheduled for rollout in 2027, while 83 Mk-1A fighters are now expected by 2029, after a reported delay of four quarters.

This month, two additional engines are expected from the US to support the production line. Besides the F404 engines, ten F414 engines have already been delivered, while the broader deal for 113 F404 engines for an additional 97 Tejas Mk-1As has been concluded, with cost negotiations wrapped up.

[Rakesh]

HAL team to visit US this month for talks on joint production of GE 414 engines
https://theprint.in/defence/hal-team-to ... s/2735889/
04 Sept 2025

The engines are meant for Tejas Mk 2 and the first tranche of Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

[bharathp]

whoever is giving these deadlines and dates from HAL - needs to come on news channels to give the dates. so the same dates can be played over and over again to them.
can you please give a realistic date for once? i dont mind it changing once or twice.. but changing it every month by arithematic progrssion is just reducing any senblance of trust by geometric progression even though die hard jingos have starched their dhotis over and over again readying for the launch of mk2 - at this point my dhoti my have been lost in the several layers of starch..

[pravula]

whoever is giving these deadlines and dates from HAL - needs to come on news channels to give the dates. so the same dates can be played over and over again to them.
can you please give a realistic date for once? i dont mind it changing once or twice.. but changing it every month by arithematic progrssion is just reducing any senblance of trust by geometric progression even though die hard jingos have starched their dhotis over and over again readying for the launch of mk2 - at this point my dhoti my have been lost in the several layers of starch..

What changes more times? IAF's requirements or HAL delivery deadlines? Asking for a friend...

[bharathp]

whoever is giving these deadlines and dates from HAL - needs to come on news channels to give the dates. so the same dates can be played over and over again to them.
can you please give a realistic date for once? i dont mind it changing once or twice.. but changing it every month by arithematic progrssion is just reducing any senblance of trust by geometric progression even though die hard jingos have starched their dhotis over and over again readying for the launch of mk2 - at this point my dhoti my have been lost in the several layers of starch..

What changes more times? IAF's requirements or HAL delivery deadlines? Asking for a friend...

then give me a timeline increase with "xyz additions need more time - additions from user" granted some need to be secret but please, atleast complete one iteration.
this mk2 was to be rolled out aug 22 - surely you can do a "roll out" even with "Additional changes" requested by IAF. this constant passing the buck between IAF and HAL without anyone taking the heat or some course correction really needs to be addressed.. no?
from a nobody.. maybe a concerned jingo

editing -
actually both need to come to the open and give a "requirement freeze" (no need to show the said requirements) and for those reqs, the HAL needs to give a "timeline" so both are responsible and both need to take responsibility

[Kartik]

Tejas Mk2 rollout date pushed out yet again. 10 F414 turbofans have been delivered to date.

HAL to deliver 2 Tejas Mk-1A aircraft in October despite engine delays
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/h ... 2025-09-04
04 Sept 2025

The more advanced LCA Mk2 is scheduled for rollout in 2027, while 83 Mk-1A fighters are now expected by 2029, after a reported delay of four quarters.

This month, two additional engines are expected from the US to support the production line. Besides the F404 engines, ten F414 engines have already been delivered, while the broader deal for 113 F404 engines for an additional 97 Tejas Mk-1As has been concluded, with cost negotiations wrapped up.

Don't believe this article just yet. Wait to see some more authoritative sources. Till just 2 weeks ago India TV was interviewing Tejas Mk2 project officials including the test pilot and no one said anything about any change in the roll-out date for the Tejas Mk2.

The same article by HT also claims that Astra Mk2 and ASRAAM were already tested, while TOI in it's latest article says that they're pending.

[hemant_sai]

1st page - section "Articles - Tejas Mk2 MWF" can be updated with more links.
Also videos section can include all the aero india links related to MWF so far.

All those articles where we have HAL/ADA officials mentioning timelines should be included.
I wish one day sensitive and sensible def. minister will track this forum and 1st page info will show the history without filters.
It will be great eye opener to any sensible person on what is happening.

No babu will give genuine information as this forum can.

[hemant_sai]

Regarding nomenclature of planes (all categories), I feel we are missing something.
I am more interested in nomenclatures e.g. Mig-21/29K, Su-30M/35, An-22/148, Tu-134, Ka-52, Mi-38.

Russians are very consistent across all categories of planes/copters. We need to use such nomenclature. Let IAF do naming ceremonies once they induct a platform. We should stop this mark-1/2 convention. Alphabet (Block) series is sufficient.

We are also missing basic hints that they have so many design bureau for different categories.
I wish we have to replicate this in some way. e.g. ADA can be 1 central HQ for all design bureau but category wise separate design bureau must be maintained. Talent must be raised and nurtured. HAL design bureau must be merged to this new list of bureaus.

In nutshell it tells me we need 10 times more resources just for research and design. Investment in the talent is required but govt. is missing this simple fact.