Understanding the US - Again

[Tanaji]

If that photograph of Trumps check to Epstein and the accompanying text of “fully depreciated” is true then, thats so disgusting and insane…..

[A_Gupta]

The whole Epstein thing as elite impunity in the US is disgusting and insane. Epstein trafficked hundreds of girls -children - which required visas and bank payments and when finally caught minimal prosecution- deep-rooted corruption.

And even the Congressman who made anti-human-trafficking his life work is voting for a cover-up.

This is a bipartisan thing. Disgusting.

[Vayutuvan]

> The whole Epstein thing as elite impunity in the US is disgusting and insane. Epstein trafficked hundreds of girls -children - which > required visas and bank payments and when finally caught minimal prosecution- deep-rooted corruption.

viewtopic.php?p=2658061#p2658061

What I said 10+ days back. But I got trolled by one and all.

[gakakkad]

Charlie Kirk shot at in utah

[VinodTK]

Trump calls for prayers after ally Charlie Kirk shot at Utah University

Charlie Kirk was shot during an event at Utah Valley University in Orem.

US President Donald Trump on Wednesday urged people to pray for right-wing activist and close ally Charlie Kirk after he was shot at a university in Utah.
US political activist Charlie Kirk during the finale of the Tucker Carlson Live Tour at Desert Diamond Arena in Glendale, Arizona, on October 31, 2024.(AFP)
US political activist Charlie Kirk during the finale of the Tucker Carlson Live Tour at Desert Diamond Arena in Glendale, Arizona, on October 31, 2024.(AFP)

"We must all pray for Charlie Kirk, who has been shot. A great guy from top to bottom. GOD BLESS HIM!" Trump wrote on his Truth Social social media platform.
US Vice President JD Vance also asked his followers to pray for Kirk. “Say a prayer for Charlie Kirk, a genuinely good guy and a young father,” Vance wrote on X.

Charlie Kirk shot at

Charlie Kirk was shot during an event at Utah Valley University in Orem. US House Representative Mike Kennedy of Utah's 3rd district has confirmed that the shot hit Kirk. His conditions remains unknown.
"I’m devastated to learn Charlie Kirk was shot during an event at UVU," he wrote in a post on X. “We condemn this senseless act of violence. Praying for Charlie and all those affected. My teams and I are monitoring the situation for updates.”

Video of the incident circulating on social media showed Kirk addressing a large outdoor crowd when a loud crack that sounded like a gunshot rang out. Kirk can be seen briefly moving his hand to his neck as he falls off his chair, sending the attendees running.
A university spokesperson told Reuters in an email that the short was fired from a nearby building and that one suspect is in custody.
FBI Director Kash Patel said that the agency is closely monitoring reports of the tragic shooting involving Charlie Kirk.
"We are closely monitoring reports of the tragic shooting involving Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University," FBI Director Kash Patel said on X. "Our thoughts are with Charlie, his loved ones, and everyone affected."

Video of the incident embedded in the link above

[A_Gupta]

200 yards away.

[Rudradev]

https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1962 ... 24966?s=19

This guy— Trump-chaploos extraordinaire Charlie Kirk— just got shot and killed on a campus in Utah.

[Vayutuvan]

The shot was fired from 200 yards away. One shot. The shooter is at large. So it is a well planned assassination attempt. Kirk, 31, was shot in the neck and is in critical condition.

[Vayutuvan]

https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1962 ... 24966?s=19

This guy— Trump-chaploos extraordinaire Charlie Kirk— just got shot and killed on a campus in Utah.

Oh. he is dead? Chaploos or not, he did well on college campuses. He came prepared and debated well with students, especially those supporting "From river to sea" slogan during the protests against Israel going into Gaza on college campuses.

Unless you want to support "pyaar se lenge azaadi, bol ke lenge azaadi, cheenke lenge azaadi, maar ke lenge azaadi", you should not take sides here.

Vivek R also accompanied C Kirk a few times.

[A_Gupta]

This is a tragedy. Shot is bad enough, shot while speaking at a university makes it worse.

There are sound economic arguments with which to refute a Charlie Kirk or Peter Navarro. That MAGA are not open to reason is a different matter. It does not merit being shot dead.

[Vayutuvan]

Leftist strategy is to use freedom to bear arms (2nd) to kill Freedom of speech advocates and then take guns away from everybody but the modern day stasi. So Brutishit that.

[vera_k]

200 yards away.

Same MO as the first assassination attempt on Trump. Did they get the wrong guy then?

[Vayutuvan]

There are sound economic arguments with which to refute a Charlie Kirk or Peter Navarro.

This has nothing to do with tariffs (that is what you meant by "economic" I suppose).

This incident actually proves that the left is not open to reason and they resort violence the moment they start losing the argument. Happened in Portland, Seattle, AntiFa protests - in one of the protests a police horse was tasered by the Antifa protesters and they were even lionized for hurting a poor animal, college campuses where Jewish students were harrassed to no end, and ...

[Vayutuvan]

Same MO as the first assassination attempt on Trump. Did they get the wrong guy then?

Similar but circumstances are different. It seems Utah is a open carry or concealed carry with a permit. The university is an open campus, the even was an open even, i.e. no tickets or prescreening. People are allowed to carry guns on the campus just like they can do all over Utah. There was no visible security. One fatal shot from 200 yds means the shooter scoped out the site well before hand, chose a place to position self, got the right weapon with a scope, and had training to pull this off successfully. After the shot, the shooter simply ups and disappears. This is what one analyst said on CNN a couple of hours back. Manhunt is still going on. Probably they are looking at any and every footage frame by frame. Ballistics people will be involved as well to figure the angle of entry and such.

[Vayutuvan]

https://x.com/realCCrump/status/1965882549831360893

Chandler Crump
@realCCrump
·
1h
Charlie Kirk changed my life.

I attended Turning Point USA's Young Black Leadership Summit in October 2018. I was 14 at the time but Charlie told me it didn't matter how young I was, I could fight alongside him in this movement.

From then on, I attended every Turning Point Conference every year. From 2018 to 2025.

I grew up in this movement. I became the person I am today because of the inspiration from Charlie Kirk and his organization.

I will never be the same without him, and this country will never be the same either.

He was a husband, a father, a man of God, and a visionary for our nation.

That is it from me on this episode.

[A_Gupta]

Sigh, I made the fat fingered mistake of touching a Vayutuvan post that was otherwise hidden and now must reply.

This was the X that @Rudradev posted:

America does not need more visas for people from India. Perhaps no form of legal immigration has so displaced American workers as those from India. Enough already. We’re full. Let’s finally put our own people first.

One economic argument is that things would not have remained the same had US tech firms not hired overseas labor, those “American jobs” might not even exist. There are more, but that will do.

As to Vayutuvan, there is no suspect in custody, but he is already blaming the Left. The person who shot at Trump was a registered Republican.

O Vighnaharta! May I never fat finger a touch screen again!

[Vayutuvan]

As to Vayutuvan, there is no suspect in custody, but he is already blaming the Left. The person who shot at Trump was a registered Republican.

The chances are more than even that this is a well planned (mucho better planned than the Trump) assassination attempt and successfully executed and it is by left/islamist who are an intolerant bunch. 100%.

[Vayutuvan]

Sigh, I made the fat fingered mistake of touching a Vayutuvan post that was otherwise hidden and now must reply.
...
O Vighnaharta! May I never fat finger a touch screen again!

May vignesha grant you your wish.

But I will continue to quote you and reply to yours posts. That is my prerogative as per BRF rules.

I do not suffer from the woke disease of cancelling folks I do not agree with.

[Vayutuvan]

Hmm. An interesting quote of Charlie Kirk.

“It’s worth the cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths per year, so that we can have the second amendment”
-Charlie Kirk

Full quote makes more sense.

You will never live in a society with an armed citizenry and have zero gun deaths. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am—I think it's worth it.
I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Having an armed citizenry comes with a price, and that is part of liberty. Driving comes with a price—50,000, 50,000, 50,000 people die on the road every year. That's a price. … We should have a honest and clear reductionist view of gun violence, but we should not have a utopian one.
---- Charlie Kirk

[Vayutuvan]

https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris- ... ct-2127660

Biden Re-Election Bid was "Recklessness"
She also reflects on the mantra repeated by Biden allies throughout 2024—"It's Joe and Jill's decision"—and now considers that approach a mistake.

"In retrospect, I think it was recklessness," Harris wrote. "The stakes were simply too high. This wasn't a choice that should have been left to an individual's ego, an individual's ambition. It should have been more than a personal decision."
...
Biden's Inner Circle "Seemed Fine" with "Unfair" Stories
In the excerpt, Harris accuses the White House communications team of failing to defend her amid public criticism and partisan attacks. She also said Biden's "inner circle seemed fine" when "unfair or inaccurate" stories were published about her.

"When Fox News attacked me on everything from my laugh, to my tone of voice, to whom I'd dated in my 20's, or claimed I was a 'DEI hire,' the White House rarely pushed back with my actual résumé," she wrote. "Getting anything positive said about my work or any defense against untrue attacks was almost impossible."
...
She details one example involving a 2021 diplomatic trip to France, during which she says conservative outlets mischaracterized her remarks with claims she had faked a French accent. The resulting coverage, she said, overshadowed the diplomatic progress she made. "This was total nonsense," Harris wrote, "but the White House seemed glad to let reporting about my 'gaffe' overwhelm the significant thaw in foreign relations I'd achieved."

Harris also alluded to her feelings on Biden's Oval Office broadcast in which he addressed his decision to drop out of the race.

"I watched it at the hotel that night. It was a good speech, drawing on the history of the presidency to locate his own place within it. But as my staff later pointed out, it was almost nine minutes into the 11-minute address before he mentioned me," she recalled.

"'I want to thank our great vice president, Kamala Harris. She is experienced, she's tough, she's capable. She's been an incredible partner to me and leader for our country.'

"And that was it."

She is whines a little too much. It is always somebody else's fault that she failed at her job.
naach na aaye aangan tEDaa

[A_Gupta]

Mona Charen in The Bulwark:

At the heart of the case for Trump has always been the notion that, sure, he’s rough around the edges, but we have to put aside our piddling character concerns and just be glad that he is so strong, because the left presents such an existential threat to America that we cannot survive without Trump. It was always the Flight 93 election {explained below} . When you are drowning, you don’t question whether the man throwing you a life preserver is a decent person or not, you’re just grateful he’s there.

They knew Trump was a louse. They knew he lied, betrayed his business partners and his wives, spread false rumors, played dirty, and did it all without a flicker of conscience. When Trump’s character was raised as an issue by opponents, the knee-jerk MAGA response was not to defend him, not really, but to stress the enormity of the Democrats. This carried them through Trump’s escalation of offenses—from bullying and lying to inciting a rebellion, to standing by while a murderous mob hunted his opponents (including his vice president), to the machine-gun fire he’s now spraying at our institutions. We need a tough guy, they say, because the Democrats are so dangerous.

But now they find themselves defending Trump against the one sin that has given their movement its chief moral stature: child abuse. It was QAnon, Pizzagate, and other iterations of the vast child abuse conspiracy that reassured MAGA that no matter what Trump did, the other side was always worse. Thus the obsessive focus on Jeffrey Epstein.

And it appears that Trump was more than a little accepting of Epstein’s crimes. He actually found them amusing.

....
....
For a decade, MAGA and most of the GOP has excused every Trump outrage on the grounds that America needed him to counter a widespread Democratic conspiracy to victimize innocent children.

Flight 93 election:
https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/digi ... -election/

2016 is the Flight 93 election: charge the cockpit or you die. You may die anyway. You—or the leader of your party—may make it into the cockpit and not know how to fly or land the plane. There are no guarantees.

Except one: if you don’t try, death is certain. To compound the metaphor: a Hillary Clinton presidency is Russian Roulette with a semi-auto. With Trump, at least you can spin the cylinder and take your chances.
...
...
If conservatives are right about the importance of virtue, morality, religious faith, stability, character and so on in the individual; if they are right about sexual morality or what came to be termed “family values”; if they are right about the importance of education to inculcate good character and to teach the fundamentals that have defined knowledge in the West for millennia; if they are right about societal norms and public order; if they are right about the centrality of initiative, enterprise, industry, and thrift to a sound economy and a healthy society; if they are right about the soul-sapping effects of paternalistic Big Government and its cannibalization of civil society and religious institutions; if they are right about the necessity of a strong defense and prudent statesmanship in the international sphere—if they are right about the importance of all this to national health and even survival, then they must believe—mustn’t they?—that we are headed off a cliff.

This is the MAGA argument. Doesn't matter how bad Trump is, the Democrats are worse. They kill children to make adenochrome from their blood, which they imbibe to keep themselves young (funny how well adenochrome worked for Biden). They ran a huge pedophilia ring, which included proceedings on the premises of the Comet Ping Pong pizzeria.

[Vayutuvan]

This is the MAGA argument. Doesn't matter how bad Trump is, the Democrats are worse. They kill children to make adenochrome from their blood, which they imbibe to keep themselves young (funny how well adenochrome worked for Biden). They ran a huge pedophilia ring, which included proceedings on the premises of the Comet Ping Pong pizzeria.

It is intellectual lazy to set up an extreme fringe straw man argument and knock it down to show one's "analysis chops".

[Rudradev]

https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1962 ... 24966?s=19

This guy— Trump-chaploos extraordinaire Charlie Kirk— just got shot and killed on a campus in Utah.

Oh. he is dead? Chaploos or not, he did well on college campuses. He came prepared and debated well with students.

Maybe by your standards.

I'm unimpressed by heavily edited Youtube videos of him reciting TPUSA talking points at the most lamebrained specimens his production crew could recruit.

Unless you want to support "pyaar se lenge azaadi, bol ke lenge azaadi, cheenke lenge azaadi, maar ke lenge azaadi", you should not take sides here.

I'm not sure if you've actually read what this hack posted on X.

America does not need more visas for people from India. Perhaps no form of legal immigration has so displaced American workers as those from India.

It's very clear that "sides" have already been taken. I just happen to have enough self awareness to know which side I'm on.

Also, most of us have enough contextual awareness not to copy/paste face-value stereotypes across completely different political environments and think we've arrived at some profound understanding of the US.

Simp if you must.

[Jay]

As to Vayutuvan, there is no suspect in custody, but he is already blaming the Left. The person who shot at Trump was a registered Republican.

The chances are more than even that this is a well planned (mucho better planned than the Trump) assassination attempt and successfully executed and it is by left/islamist who are an intolerant bunch. 100%.

lol...bro forgot who shot at trump, who killed the legislators and their spouse in minnesota, who killed another state legislator in wisconsin, gifford in AZ and is appalled when racist excuse of a human being is killed in exactly the fashion he himself said is not a big deal...

[Jay]

Hmm. An interesting quote of Charlie Kirk.

“It’s worth the cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths per year, so that we can have the second amendment”
-Charlie Kirk

Full quote makes more sense.

You will never live in a society with an armed citizenry and have zero gun deaths. That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am—I think it's worth it.
I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Having an armed citizenry comes with a price, and that is part of liberty. Driving comes with a price—50,000, 50,000, 50,000 people die on the road every year. That's a price. … We should have a honest and clear reductionist view of gun violence, but we should not have a utopian one.
---- Charlie Kirk

when he says god given rights, he means a christian god given rights as interpreted by a christian jury. So what is his list of god given right?

[gakakkad]

executed and it is by left/islamist who are an intolerant bunch. 100%.
lol...bro forgot who shot at trump, who killed the legislators and their spouse in minnesota, who killed another state legislator in wisconsin, gifford in AZ and is appalled when racist excuse of a human being is killed in exactly the fashion he himself said is not a big deal...

Agreed . The frequency at which these appear is Pakistan level. We are unfortunately living in a quasi failed state .

[Najunamar]

Looks like US is spiraling out of control and we may well see the Dumbocrats and GOPtards competing against each other in a stampede towards self-destruction. These excesses may well provide the Republicans with the oxygen after Trump’s disastrous foreign policy (which is to alienate every country in the planet) almost guaranteed a midterm rout.

[A_Gupta]

The chances are more than even that this is a well planned (mucho better planned than the Trump) assassination attempt and successfully executed and it is by left/islamist who are an intolerant bunch. 100%.

If one is talking about probable motives, a human sacrifice to get the topic off of Epstein is also a motive; I post this as an example of what damage one can do with irresponsible speculation. Fie upon thee, Vayutuvan!

For that matter, it could be one of the MAGA freaks upset that Charlie Kirk was defending Trump in Epstein affair.

[Najunamar]

But we also saw the “socialist Robin Hood” type rich woke brat who shot the UHC CEO, so all in all looks like everyone is fair game this season in U.S. which is going downhill almost as fast as Pakiland

[Vayutuvan]

Parkalaam.

[hanumadu]

John Mearshiemer has the best explanation for the pickle that the US is in now, IMHO. The powers that be in the US are (were) unable to come to terms with a multipolar world. They wanted to conquer Russia, use it to enhance the power of the west and continue to work on dismantling China and India. China and India wizened up to it and refuse to throw Russia under the bus. Or more likely the US thought the combined power of the west is enough to defeat Russia. Now that its not happening, the west just cannot give what Russia wants. It can only resist as best as it can and wait till Russia achieves its objectives. India being the weaker state than China has become an easy pawn to try and target Russia. Now Trump wants Europe to target India and China with 100% tariffs. I think India at some point will be subject to tariffs by EU.

I just hope Russia achieves its goals quickly and puts and end to this drama.

[Jay]

But we also saw the “socialist Robin Hood” type rich woke brat who shot the UHC CEO, so all in all looks like everyone is fair game this season in U.S. which is going downhill almost as fast as Pakiland

Nanjunamar ji, I'm by no means condoning what happened to that CEO, but if one had a family member or yourself deal with a company like UHC while their loved one if fighting for their life, one would understand why people hate these companies with this much passion.

My colleague's spouse had a major medical issue and had to be put in hospice towards the end. Even at that stage, UHC was fighting them for claims, denying or delaying care at every step and the guy came very close to losing his retirement and home because of expenses. This is not a one-off issue and the web is littered with testimonials like this. The direct problem is insurance companies refusing to pay for health care that is delivered or recommended by an independently licensed medical professional. This is a company policy, designed to decrease their costs and ultimately increase their profit margin and UHC was exceedingly good with this approach.

The problem is, US in it's slavish obedience to crony and exploitative version of capitalism, took away many of the checks, safe guards, recourse from the common man and it feels like we are living in the times of 'chickens coming home to roost'. This is really scary and the talking heads at the top are only making it worse.

[saip]

Now they are threatening to cancel visas and deport any foreigners 'praising' the assassination of Kirk.

[Vayutuvan]

Why are foreigners "praising" a heinous act that was condemned by one and all across the political spectrum? If they are doing it, then they deserve to be deported just like "pyaar se lenge azaadi" JNU/DU grad(?) woman who was leading the chant at Columbia supporting philistine (and the crowd was harrassing Jewish students).

[Vayutuvan]

By the way, just a reminder that India did the same to a German student protesting in Chennai or B'lur. He deserved that treatment.

[krisna]

Just a primer- those who know please skip this post

Donkeys are said to be liberal- softer towards abortion, migration etc
more onto welfare schemed and behave like grasshoppers ( recall the story of ant and grasshopper).
experts on weaponising hate against others.


elephants are said to be conservatives - more prolife with ban on abortions, tighten migration etc .relatively more business friendly/capitalist. Less onto welfare or nanny state. more openly racist xenophobic

These 2 definitions of liberal and conservatism- are within the realm of christinaity only NOT LIBERAL in TRUEST sense .
Donkeys are sort of cool - ok with others of the book folowers of all types.

Both donkeys and elephants dont like others like Sanatanis and others.

elephants are open about it.

Donkeys play hide and seek -- have glass ceiling which sanatanis dont fully comprehend. They fully back sanatanis who openly disdain or leave Hindu culture at their homes.

Bottom line is both sections of uncle sam children are racist bigoted at the extremes on both sides. Both have contempt and disdain towards sanatanis.

This should not be forgotten or missed in all discussions we make.



Regarding charlie kirk and Indian comments. Both sides have made this comments about Indians stealing jobs. I am sure many on donkeys are silent about obummer in his presdiential campaign and later in his role as POTUS spewing hate on Indians in nicely couched sentences.(setting the stage for weaponising hate on others nicley) .

This is the not the first time not the last but I picked on obummer as he is a popular figure amongst democrats fans .
Both sides are guilty.

Personally have had comments by donkeys regarding my country of origin and asking why I came to uncle land etc . Asked about cows many Gods and poverty etc . This is from deep blue state. (orange bandar was not on seen at all.)

[Vayutuvan]

Fie upon thee, Vayutuvan!

But there are other instances where fie seems still to be tied to the notion of reaction to bad smells, as in King Lear, act 4, scene 6:

Lear. ...The Fitchew, nor the soyled Horse goes too't with a more rioutous appetite: Downe from the waste they are Centaures, though Women all aboue: but to the Girdle do the Gods inherit, beneath is all the Fiends. There's hell, there's darkenes, there is the sulphurous pit; burning, scalding, stench, consumption: Fye, fie, fie; pah, pah: Giue me an Ounce of Ciuet; good Apothecary sweeten my immagination: There's money for thee.

Gloster. O let me kisse that hand.

Lear. Here wipe it first, it smells of mortalitie.

[Vayutuvan]

The earliest instance of "fie on X" that the OED cites is from the York Plays: The Plays Performed by the Crafts Or Mysteries of York on the Day of Corpus Christi (1440 [according to OED]):

Pilate. Kyng! in þe deuyllis name, we! Fye upon hym, dastard!/ What! wenys þat wode warlowe ouere-wyn vs þus lightly?/ A begger of Bedlem, borne as a ********,/ Nowe by Lucifer lath I þat ladde, I leue hym not lightly.

Angry Democrats. They start calling names right off the get go. It is impossible to hold an emotion free conversation with these fiends.

[Vayutuvan]

I'm not sure if you've actually read what this hack posted on X.

America does not need more visas for people from India. Perhaps no form of legal immigration has so displaced American workers as those from India.

It's very clear that "sides" have already been taken. I just happen to have enough self awareness to know which side I'm on.
...
Simp if you must.

Why are you expecting him to take India's side? We first generation Indian-Americans (I know you are one and I am one) have some emotional link to our motherland.

Family reunions come under legal immigration too. H1Bs are path to legal immigration as well. Can you say in good conscience that H1Bs haven't been abused (majorly even?)

I am not going to march on the streets protesting the punishment to that Rutgers Freshman who recorded and posted a homosexual act of his roommate. But I do believe in the dictum that everybody should get a second chance, especially the youngsters. That goes for everyone - black, white, muslim, hindu, or even the left.

Also I supported Khobragade irrespective of her shady doings in India. The US did not have any right to have her strip searched etc. But there were several here on BRF (including you IIRC) as well in my friends' circles who were saying that she got just desserts.

Self-awareness phaa. You want me to go on?

[Vayutuvan]

https://twitter.com/Preetam_M_Rao/statu ... 7097534620

Preetam Rao
@Preetam_M_Rao
Indians should stay out of Charlie Kirk issue.
Mocking and berating will only invite hate towards Indian Americans while you're chilling in India.
All in all, Charlie was a good man. Sure he was against Indian migration to US but it's their country. Not ours.
...
ARVIND BHANDIWAD
@jaytirthb
We should learn from Modiji. While Trump was going hammer and tongs against us Modiji didn't bring down the bridge connecting to US. Ultimately he held his head high
...
Gaurav
@XkonchadyX
Absolutely stoic, strategic silence paves the way better than childish edgy takes.

There are many sane Indians on X. It is certainly encouraging to see the maturity which is lacking in posts here on BRF.