Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

[LakshmanPST]

KH on a roll....

The comment section under the video on Youtube is puke worthy...
The recent GE engine delays and news pushed by pro-Russian lobbies for buying Su57 have totally branwashed many people...

[SSridhar]

Absolutely well said, Dr. KH.

[uddu]

The Uttam for Tejas MK2 prototype is in production. The Uttam for Mk1A production is missing.
Uttam GaN-Based AESA Radar for Tejas Mk2 Enters Production, Offering Over 900 T/R Modules and 25% Better Range in Complex Electronic Warfare
https://defence.in/threads/uttam-gan-ba ... are.14350/

[uddu]

KH on a roll....

The comment section under the video on Youtube is puke worthy...
The recent GE engine delays and news pushed by pro-Russian lobbies for buying Su57 have totally branwashed many people...

People see Russia as a friend. The reality of how they protect their tech and create market for their weapons is not thought out by most. Question is whether the IAF is ready to bite the bullet and support the indigenous path like the Navy did it long back and come out Atmanirbhar or will keep importing? If the IAF is ready to tread this path, I don't think the political class of today will have issue with that.May be they could put their effort in Super Sukhoi Upgrade and increasing the number of MK2's to be ordered. Since the follow on order for Tejas MK1A is placed, think of the next variant of Tejas with Kaveri engine (KDE+New Afterburner as well.)

[Rakesh]

Our turn comes next....

US Blocks Engine Exports for Turkey’s KAAN Fighter Jet: NATO Rift Deepens
https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/us-b ... e_vignette
28 Sept 2025

Turkey to seek alternatives if US fails to lift CAATSA sanctions, Fidan says
https://www.ekathimerini.com/politics/f ... idan-says/
28 Sept 2025

Video of the Foreign Minister of Turkey, Hakan Fidan discussing this issue
(The video is in his native tongue, but subtitles are present)...

https://x.com/defencealerts/status/1972519010894803054

[Tanaji]

Our turn comes next....

100% with this administration that has 3 years to go. It’s only a matter of time when.

We must make a national mission to fly the Kaveri , relax the flat rating restriction even if needed and get it flying.

IAF will of course take the opportunity to ask for 500 Rafales instead

[Rakesh]

Two events will occur in the near future, that will trigger CAATSA sanctions against India;

1) Purchase of additional S-400 units (on top of the five regiments from the first contract) and/or the purchase of the S-500. Check out this link ---> viewtopic.php?p=2661312#p2661312

2) Purchase of the Su-57E.

The first one is under discussion with Russia and the second is just a rumour, albeit a very strong one. What will equally anger Trump and his Orc* minions (i.e. Lutnick, Navarro, Bessent, etc) is France talking home the red rose via the MRFA contest. The gloves of diplomatic niceties came off this summer with the trade deal negotiations breaking down between India and the US. In addition, Unkil has a severe disdain for anyone that siphons money (and influence) away from them. And in that respect, both Russia and France are in the same boat vis-à-vis India.
*Orc is a reference to Lord of the Rings ---> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ke_Orc.jpg

Even on BRF, we saw that disdain among the MUTU crowd America alone must lead the world to prosperity, democracy and freedom

P.S. Trump's offer of the F-35 in February 2025 did not gain traction at Air HQ. Must be hard being Lockheed Martin or Boeing, because none of their fighters are making the cut at Air HQ or Naval HQ in New Delhi. There is always NGAD

For the MUTU crowd on BRF, the NGAD reference is a joke

[Rakesh]

HAL को चौथे GE404 इंजन का इंतजार... अक्टूबर में नासिक से उड़ेगा पहला तेजस Mk-1A फाइटर
https://www.aajtak.in/defence-news/stor ... 2025-09-29
29 Sept 2025

[Prem Kumar]

India needs an "Arattai" moment in Kaveri

F@#$ GE: lets go full blast on Kaveri. Triple-down in investment, talent & reverse-engineering. Make it an all-hands-on-deck effort, directed from the PMO itself

It will be really stupid to wait till the axe falls

[ashishvikas]

^^ We have to manage somehow GE404 & GE-F414 delivery, there's No change feasible if u consider their induction timelines.

You can build AMCA or any other fighters on other engine but time has sailed through for LCA.

[Rakesh]

• Rafale first flight with a pair of GE F404 turbofans: 04 July 1986

• Rafale first flight with one M88 turbofan and one GE F404 turbofan: 27 Feb 1990

But there is more to this story, than just an approx 4 year time span. From Wiki Chacha...

The M88 program was officially launched in 1986. It was decided to flight test the engine, the M88-2, aboard the Dassault Breguet and the Rafale A prototype.  Indeed, after having replaced the aircraft's left F404, the engine was first flight tested aboard the Rafale A on 27 February 1990. By then, the fourteen M88-2s had accumulated 1,600 hours of running time. The demonstrator thereafter reached supersonic speed without afterburners, reached a height of 50,000 ft, endured load factors of −2g and +9g and flown at an angle of attack of 30°.

Where is Kaveri on the developmental cycle in relation to the above? Perhaps maitya-ji will know...

Also need to know how much modification was done to the Rafale to make the switch from GE F404 to M88-2.

[ashishvikas]

TWO in Sep

American firm GE Aerospace has handed over the fourth GE-F404-IN20 engine to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited against the order of 2021 on September 30, 2025: GE Aerospace

The engine will be used for the LCA Mark 1A fighter jets, which will be inducted into the Indian Air Force in the near future. GE has to supply 99 GE-404 engines as part of the contract signed in 2021

https://x.com/ani/status/1973232137525514509?s=46

[Khalsa]

Its good to know that it has arrived but sad that a nationa of billion plus is tweeting and gawking at the arrival of the fourth engine from GE for the first Tejas Mk1A squadron.

14 Air frames ready
4 Engines ready
Down by two mig21 squadron this year.

I do not understand how many more ways does the GoI need to hear it

FUND THE EFFING KAVERI PROGRAMME (it wwill speed up the deliveries and the factors for the GE 414 will be open tomorrow as well)

The whitey will do his best to leave us on the drugs

[SSridhar]

• Rafale first flight with a pair of GE F404 turbofans: 04 July 1986

• Rafale first flight with one M88 turbofan and one GE F404 turbofan: 27 Feb 1990

. . .

Also need to know how much modification was done to the Rafale to make the switch from GE F404 to M88-2.

Wow!
How did they fit in a much smaller & lighter M88 within 4 years? Didn't they have to make extensive airframe modifications?

Snecma M88 Specifications

Type: Afterburning turbofan
Length: 353.8 cm (139.3 in)
Diameter: 69.6 cm (27.4 in)
Weight: 897 Kg

General Electric F404 Specifications

Type: Afterburning turbofan
Length: 154 in (391 cm)
Maximum diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
Weight: 1073 Kg

[maitya]

• Rafale first flight with a pair of GE F404 turbofans: 04 July 1986

• Rafale first flight with one M88 turbofan and one GE F404 turbofan: 27 Feb 1990

But there is more to this story, than just an approx 4 year time span. From Wiki Chacha...

The M88 program was officially launched in 1986. It was decided to flight test the engine, the M88-2, aboard the Dassault Breguet and the Rafale A prototype.  Indeed, after having replaced the aircraft's left F404, the engine was first flight tested aboard the Rafale A on 27 February 1990. By then, the fourteen M88-2s had accumulated 1,600 hours of running time. The demonstrator thereafter reached supersonic speed without afterburners, reached a height of 50,000 ft, endured load factors of −2g and +9g and flown at an angle of attack of 30°.

Where is Kaveri on the developmental cycle in relation to the above? Perhaps maitya-ji will know...

Also need to know how much modification was done to the Rafale to make the switch from GE F404 to M88-2.

Normally I don't go into such comparisons, as there are multiple factors involved, but since Rakeshji asked, will attempt:
1) M88 TF dev program consists of M88-1 (similar to what we call as K9), the TD/proof-of-concept ver of the current M88-2 (so similar to what is the K10 ver of the Kaveri program)

2) The M88-1 ver was initiated back in mid-70s (design-freeze etc), as a follow-on to 1960s vintage, the M53 (of M2Ks) - which in itself is a "modified" version of the turbojet Atar class (of 1950s - Atar9K50 powers Mirage F1) predecessor.
The design goal (of M88-1) was to develop a "true" twin-spool TF (M53 is a sigle spool TF) that is 40% shorter and 45% lighter than Snecma's Atar 9K50 - which was attained in M88-2 (and not M88-1).

3) The M88-1 component-level TRLs were ready by 1982 with full engine run happening on 1984

4) Not to be confused with predecessor, the M88-2 program - which was then initiated in 1984 and with first engine run on 1988. The 1850deg K TeT was first demonstrated in 1987.

5) First flew on a Rafale in 1990 - after completing 1.6K hrs of bench testing

6) Production defn of M88-2 completed in 1992

7) Flight qualification came in 1996 - after 5.5K hrs of simulated flying (ie in Bench and HATB) and further 4K hrs (across 600 flights) on prototype Rafale

Now, wrt Kaveri/K9, currently it stands somewhere at 1984 (in the M88-2 dev/productionising) scale. Very loose mapping would be:
M88-1 <-> Kaveri/K9
M88-2 <-> K10 (which is not even sactioned yet).


Now some fun facts:
Consider these for M88-1 (the TD ver of current M88-2), and compare with that of K9s (figures in brackets).
a) TeT: 1400deg C - so, lower than that of Kaveri/K9 (1455deg C). Oh betw, F404 ver of that vintage was at ~1330deg C (which was used to fly the Rafale TDs)
b) Fan/LPC PR: 3.5 (Kaveri/K9 - 3.4-3.6)
c) HPT Blades/Vanes material: Conventional Equiaxed (Kaveri/K9 - DS)

===============================================================
So back to topic, for an experienced OEM like Safran, with a legacy of military engine dev experieince, it took 6 years (1984-1990), after all bench/HATB etc test completion, to be able to qualify M88-2 to fly on a Rafale platform - this when the TD was already designed/developed/tested for decade+.
And then further 4 years (1992-1996) of flying on Rafale to clear it for production run.

Now it's upto us to extrapolate from these facts, wrt what the timeframes could be for Kaveri program (if funded at all).

[drnayar]

US Blocks Engine Exports for Turkey’s KAAN Fighter Jet: NATO Rift Deepens - Defence Security Asia https://share.google/MaNyTaNeHUTS5sVrP

We need an alternative to GE asap

[pravula]

KAAN is using F-110 engines. IIRC, no one other non-us plane, except the Japanese F-16 clone (F-2) uses it. The F404 and the F414 are used extensively by non US planes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_E ... plications). I don't think we are in the same boat, but could be...

[bala]

GE Aerospace Delivers Fourth F404-IN20 Engine to HAL for Tejas Mk1A Fighter Jets

GE Aerospace has delivered the fourth F404-IN20 fighter jet engine to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) as part of the 2021 order. The engine will power the LCA Tejas Mk1A fighter jets, which are set to join the Indian Air Force fleet following the retirement of MiG-21 jets. Despite earlier supply chain delays, HAL’s Nashik facility is now ready for the maiden flight of the first Tejas Mk1A, scheduled for October. This milestone strengthens India’s indigenous defense capabilities and modernizes the IAF’s fleet.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/NetramDefence/status/1973641230467866634 ---> UPDATE: HAL successfully tested Tejas Mk-1A with Astra BVR and ASRAAM missiles, proving it can handle short and long-range combat. It’s moving closer to deployment, paving the way for more advanced missiles.

[Rakesh]

Engine Delivery By General Electric For Tejas Picks Up

HAL has received four GE F404-IN20 engines under a 2021 contract for 99 units to power 83 Tejas Mk1A fighters. Supply chain delays have slowed deliveries, grounding 10 completed jets. HAL’s Nashik line is ready, but engine shortages hinder rollout. A follow-on order for 113 engines will be signed in October. GE will also transfer 80% technology for F414 engines for future Tejas variants, supporting India’s indigenisation goals. The IAF’s induction pace depends on faster engine supplies.

[SSridhar]

https://x.com/NetramDefence/status/1973641230467866634 ---> UPDATE: HAL successfully tested Tejas Mk-1A with Astra BVR and ASRAAM missiles, proving it can handle short and long-range combat.

Really great news.

[Bharadwaj]

^^^^^^^^^
All these twitter chaps source from the India Today article. The India Today reporter has been saying the weapons test completed info for a long time. I would wait for the official pib release before doing lungi dance.

[konaseema]

The 97 additional Mk1A order and the subsequent order for additional 114 GE 404 engines is to dissuade US govt to think more than once before they take the decision to stop the current order of 99 GE 404 engines. More over the investments that GE has made to restart the manufacturing line for these engines would also play a role. It also answers the question of why IAF has sent the proposal to purchase 114 Rafale's from France. All these are interlinked to GE 404 & GE 414 deals.

[LakshmanPST]

Break up of 97 order is 68 Single seaters and 29 twin seaters...
----
Mk1 is 32 S + 8T
1st Mk1A order is 73 S + 10T
2nd Mk1A order is 68 S + 29T (I expected it to be 89S + 8T)
That is total 32 Mk1 SingleSeaters, 141 Mk1A SingleSeaters and 47 TwinSeaters
----
Honestly, these numbers are confusing... I guess only IAF ppl know how they're planning to organize them into squadrons...
But one thing is true---> The high no. of Twin seaters would mean that Twin seaters might be used for combat roles as well, not as just trainers...
----
One possibility I see is how Rafales are organized ---> 18 jets per squadron with break-up of 14 Single + 4 Twin seaters...
If we put aside Mk1s order (32 S+8T), the break-up of Mk1A orders is 141 Single seaters + 39 Twin seaters, with total of 180 jets...
That is approximately 14 Single and 4 Twin seaters per squadron with total 10 squadrons of Mk1A jets...

Looking at the higher number of Twin seat Mk1s that are ordered, another possibility is that the Trainers are also meant of Tejas Mk2 squadrons...
As we know, Tejas Mk2 does not have a Twin seat variant... It is totally possible that the 97 order includes 4 squadrons of Mk1As and Trainers for Mk2 squadrons... So, each squadron may have 17 Single Seaters + 2/3 Twin seaters... That is 68+8/12...
Balance 21/17 Twin seaters may be Trainers for Mk2 squadrons + Attrition reserves...

[uddu]

There is a need for more Tejas MK1A with Kaveri engine. Very much necessary because, this is the only option to make sure that the Tejas MK1's have indigenous engine and can never be sanctioned. It could be 5 years from now. It could be 10 years from now. But this need to happen. It can incorporate tech from Tejas MK2 and AMCA as well. This project could lead to Kaveri Mk2 for Tejas MK2 as well.

[Khalsa]

Break up of 97 order is 68 Single seaters and 29 twin seaters...
----
Mk1 is 32 S + 8T
1st Mk1A order is 73 S + 10T
2nd Mk1A order is 68 S + 29T (I expected it to be 89S + 8T)
That is total 32 Mk1 SingleSeaters, 141 Mk1A SingleSeaters and 47 TwinSeaters
----
Honestly, these numbers are confusing... I guess only IAF ppl know how they're planning to organize them into squadrons...
But one thing is true---> The high no. of Twin seaters would mean that Twin seaters might be used for combat roles as well, not as just trainers...
----
One possibility I see is how Rafales are organized ---> 18 jets per squadron with break-up of 14 Single + 4 Twin seaters...
If we put aside Mk1s order (32 S+8T), the break-up of Mk1A orders is 141 Single seaters + 39 Twin seaters, with total of 180 jets...
That is approximately 14 Single and 4 Twin seaters per squadron with total 10 squadrons of Mk1A jets...

Looking at the higher number of Twin seat Mk1s that are ordered, another possibility is that the Trainers are also meant of Tejas Mk2 squadrons...
As we know, Tejas Mk2 does not have a Twin seat variant... It is totally possible that the 97 order includes 4 squadrons of Mk1As and Trainers for Mk2 squadrons... So, each squadron may have 17 Single Seaters + 2/3 Twin seaters... That is 68+8/12...
Balance 21/17 Twin seaters may be Trainers for Mk2 squadrons + Attrition reserves...

Lakshman Sir. I too looked at that high number and could think of the following.
1. Command Post - Like the M2K Dual seat Fighters during Kargil War. ALmost like a FAC in the air within the squadron.
2. CATS Mothership. Controlling and punching holes or filling up holes with CATS warriors.
3. Advanced Fighter training - TEJAS SPORTS

Else those high numbers do not make sense. In squadron trainers are usually 3 to 4 and never more than that. SOmetimes they are also pooled between squadrons like for the MiG21s.

This is definitely combat capable strength that has been purchased within those two orders that are dual seaters.

[uddu]

Can Tejas Outperform Mig 29 ?

[williams]

There is a need for more Tejas MK1A with Kaveri engine. Very much necessary because, this is the only option to make sure that the Tejas MK1's have indigenous engine and can never be sanctioned. It could be 5 years from now. It could be 10 years from now. But this need to happen. It can incorporate tech from Tejas MK2 and AMCA as well. This project could lead to Kaveri Mk2 for Tejas MK2 as well.

So the life of a F404 is around 4000 hours. IAF average flight hours of their jets is 200-300 hours per year. So this marriage will have to last for more than 10 years. And if all goes well we will be producing these birds for the next 10 years. If Kaveri can be a replacement engine in the next 10 years we will have a winner. IMO Americans displayed their bad behavior too soon. They could have been little patient to keep us lethargic for some more time. So in spite of all the negatives, we have put in a strong foundation for our MIC and things can only become better from now on.

[Bharadwaj]

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 140091.ece


After delays, IAF set to receive first Tejas Mk1A fighter jet

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is set to receive its first Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mk1A on October 17 during a ceremony in Nashik, marking a significant milestone in India’s indigenous fighter jet programme.

I hope this is a genuine handover and not a paper one where we see a ceremony and then the aircraft sit at HAL while loose ends with the weapons testing are tied up.

[uddu]

So the test firing of Astra successfully is true. or it is not held back as the upgrade of software is to happen on the Astra MK1 missile. reports of Rajnath Singh to be present is also there in the media. So handover mostly will take place on Oct 17.

[Bharadwaj]

Uddu Ji I have my doubts. There has been no PIB release proclaiming successful weapons firing for mk-1a. I think this may be a ceremonial handover followed by a few months of testing and hopefully the bird will be in service sometime soon. Matching desi weapons to firang aesa is not an easy task. IMHO Hal should have outsourced this task to ADA.

[uddu]

Uddu Ji I have my doubts. There has been no PIB release proclaiming successful weapons firing for mk-1a. I think this may be a ceremonial handover followed by a few months of testing and hopefully the bird will be in service sometime soon. Matching desi weapons to firang aesa is not an easy task. IMHO Hal should have outsourced this task to ADA.

Bharadwaj ji, HAL did the Brahmos Integration. In this case, since it's an Astra software update. probably to be in tune with the new ELM-2052 AESA radar, DRDO labs will be involved. The other aspects are completed. Once the update is done, they can test it again.
Here is zee reporting the test is done. May be an error.
तेजस MK-1A के हथियार ट्रायल पूरे, अस्त्र और ASRAAM मिसाइल ने दिखाई असली ताकत; जल्द होगा वायूसेना मे शामिल
https://zeenews.india.com/hindi/zee-hin ... on/2946936

[uddu]

https://www.firstpost.com/india/hungry- ... 39057.html

“As far as Tejas Mk1A is concerned, our expectations are based on what QRs we have given them earlier, which was set a few years back, and our expectations remain exactly the same. We expect the aircraft to be able to achieve those parameters that are set in those documents,” the IAF chief said in the Friday presser.

“We are very excited to have this aircraft with us as early as possible. I believe the engine flow has started, and some promises are being made. Some more r&d work, which is still pending. That work is still going on, as soon as they can certify the aircraft against set standards, we are ready to welcome it,” he added.

It is pertinent to note that the Tejas Mk-1A has already completed weapons integration trials, including the firing of Astra and ASRAM missiles. Apart from this, the more advanced LCA Mk2 is scheduled for rollout in 2027, while 83 Mk-1A fighters are now expected by 2029, after a reported delay of four quarters.

[ashishvikas]

ASTRA integration ets are teething issue and would happen over time.

Most important thing is engine supply by GE and ramp up production by HAL.

[nash]

From MoD Annual Report 2023-24:

EW Suite for LCA-MK1A (Swayam Raksha Kavach)
The EW suite consists of state of the art Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) and Advanced Self-Protection
Jammer (ASPJ). The RWR contains four channel wide band receivers and provides improved probability
of detection and direction finding accuracy both for airborne and ground based radars. EW Suite
for LCA Mk1A was tested on the LCA-LSP3 configuration for integrated mode of functioning of
Internal RWR and pod based ASPJ system. Jamming of ground radars and airborne radars in the
limited multi-emitter scenario was carried out. During 2023, integration of EW system with radar
was tested and several sorties were carried out.

This will certainly increase the survival capability of Tejas.

[Bharadwaj]

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/ ... 10-1012127

The usually reliable IndiaTV only mentioning inauguration of third line and first flight. No mention of induction. Someone on twitter reported fr24 data showing bird 21 testing near the eastern range. If things went well we should have heard from PIB by now. Sorry that Iam skeptical however these integrations will always take time. Fingers crossed for sometime early next year.

[Kartik]

From MoD Annual Report 2023-24:

EW Suite for LCA-MK1A (Swayam Raksha Kavach)
The EW suite consists of state of the art Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) and Advanced Self-Protection
Jammer (ASPJ). The RWR contains four channel wide band receivers and provides improved probability
of detection and direction finding accuracy both for airborne and ground based radars. EW Suite
for LCA Mk1A was tested on the LCA-LSP3 configuration for integrated mode of functioning of
Internal RWR and pod based ASPJ system. Jamming of ground radars and airborne radars in the
limited multi-emitter scenario was carried out. During 2023, integration of EW system with radar
was tested and several sorties were carried out.

This will certainly increase the survival capability of Tejas.

Even the current Tejas Mk1 is equipped with Elta 8222 Scorpius ASPJ. That is an AESA unit and will already make the Tejas Mk1 very capable in jamming airborne and ground radars.