India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[uddu]

^^^India must have threatened about putting more conditions in the trade deal or even arming U.S neighbour's including the likes of Venezuela with modern weapons like Astra and Brahmos.

[Cyrano]

^^^ unlikely. The sale of missiles to Pakis story was either planted as a pressure tactic on Bharat for the ongoing negotiations, or it is yet another TACO moment.

[chetak]

The US can always flip flop, especially if they want control of bagram.

Cyrano ji,

The afghans and the pakis have a blood feud and the taliban are especially not paki friendly

Plus, the afghans do not recognise the durand line

But no matter who has been in power in afghanistan, its government has maintained that the durand line is void.

afghanistan continues to seek the return of pashtun territories as well as balochistan, which would provide it with access to the arabian Sea.

if any paki jernail/govt pushes for access to bagram for the amrikis, the paki leader(s) will end up in a wooden box

BTW, bagram was built by the soviets, and not by the amrikis, so trump saying that he is going to take it back is dishonest, to say the least.

[chetak]

^^^ unlikely. The sale of missiles to Pakis story was either planted as a pressure tactic on Bharat for the ongoing negotiations, or it is yet another TACO moment.

It was a paki plant, Cyrano ji.

[Cyrano]

Chetak garu,
Agree mostly. What historic or ethnic claim do Afghans have on Balochistan? I'm not well versed in this matter, my vague GK tells me they are as different as chalk and cheese. If anything, Balochs would prefer to be a part of Bharat than get gobbled up by Afghanis/Talibunnies.

[uddu]

https://x.com/MeghUpdates/status/1976538640047362434
@MeghUpdates
KEY India–US developments in the last 24 hours:

— PM Modi & President Trump discuss trade negotiations & the Gaza peace plan
— India welcomes Phase 1 implementation of Gaza plan
— US clarifies: No new AMRAAM missiles to Pakistan, only spares
— US officials visiting India

[A_Gupta]

Looks like Paki plant, not US plant, based on this DoW page:
https://www.war.gov/News/Contracts/Cont ... e/4319114/

Sorry, this page, if we go by Congress leader Jairam Ramesh (May 7 2025 contracts)
https://www.war.gov/News/Contracts/Cont ... e/4177700/

AMRAAM missile are $1+ million each. $41.7 million doesn’t buy much.

https://www.war.gov/News/Contracts/Cont ... e/4189244/
May 16

Booz Allen Hamilton Inc., McLean, Virginia, was awarded a $20,595,168 firm-fixed-price, cost-plus-fixed-fee, and cost-reimbursable incentive contract for technical security team support services. This contract provides for program management, end use monitoring, technology security support, food services support, and facilities management support. Work will be performed in Pakistan and is expected to be completed by May 2026. This contract involves Foreign Military Sales (FMS) to Pakistan. This contract was a sole source acquisition under the authority of Unusual and Compelling Urgency. FMS funds in the amount of $20,595,168 are being obligated at the time of award. The Air Force Security and Assistance Directorate, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is the contracting activity (FA8630-25-C-B014).

——
For support for the repair of Pak facilities hit in Op Sindoor?

[chetak]

Chetak garu,
Agree mostly. What historic or ethnic claim do Afghans have on Balochistan? I'm not well versed in this matter, my vague GK tells me they are as different as chalk and cheese. If anything, Balochs would prefer to be a part of Bharat than get gobbled up by Afghanis/Talibunnies.

Cyrano ji,


here you go.


The Durand Line is the 2,640-kilometer (1,640-mile) international border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, established in 1893 by British civil servant Sir Henry Mortimer Durand and Afghan ruler Abdur Rahman Khan. While internationally recognized as the border by Pakistan and the world community, the line is not accepted by Afghanistan, as it was signed under pressure and divides Pashtun and Baloch ethnic homelands. The agreement was a product of the 19th century Great Game between the British and Russian empires and was intended to fix spheres of influence.

Key Points
Established in the Hindu Kush in 1893, it runs through the tribal lands between Afghanistan and British India. In modern times it has marked the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
It is a legacy of the 19th century Great Game between the Russian and British empires in which Afghanistan was used as a buffer by the British against a feared Russian expansionism to its east.
The agreement demarcating what became known as the Durand Line was signed between the British civil servant Sir Henry Mortimer Durand and Amir Abdur Rahman, then the Afghan ruler in 1893.
Abdur Rahman became king in 1880, two years after the end of the Second Afghan War in which the British took control of several areas that were part of the Afghan kingdom. His agreement with Durand demarcated the limits of his and British India’s “spheres of influence” on the Afghan “frontier” with India.
The seven-clause agreement recognised a 2,670-km line, which stretches from the border with China to Afghanistan’s border with Iran.
It also put on the British side the strategic Khyber Pass.
It is a mountain pass in the Hindu Kush, on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
The pass was for long of great commercial and strategic importance, the route by which successive invaders entered India, and was garrisoned by the British intermittently between 1839 and 1947.
The line cut through Pashtun tribal areas, leaving villages, families, and land divided between the two “spheres of influence”.
With independence in 1947, Pakistan inherited the Durand Line, and with it also the Pashtun rejection of the line, and Afghanistan’s refusal to recognise it.
When the Taliban seized power in Kabul the first time, they rejected the Durand Line. They also strengthened Pashtun identity with an Islamic radicalism to produce the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, whose terrorist attacks since 2007 left the country shaken.


Durand’s Curse: A Line Across the Pathan Heart Hardcover – 18 September 2017
by Rajiv Dogra



https://www.amazon.in/Durands-Curse-Acr ... 8641&psc=1

[KLNMurthy]

I would like to see a much more aggressive and calculated Indian role in the larger, non-EuroAmerican world.

Military collaborations with Nigeria etc to put down islamists, educational & medical support for backward communities in the US, deep involvement in Indian-origin Caribbean and pacific countries etc. To name only a few opportunities off the top of my head.

No argument, but how to justify scaling up when several percent of Indians are still in multi-dimensional poverty?

Here is a summary of what India does do:
https://orfamerica.org/newresearch/indi ... priorities

…

And so on. I leave you to read the ORF paper and point out where India has been not-so-efficient or not-generous-enough.

No argument that GoI has been doing a lot. Just saying, do more of the same, quantitatively, is pointless. The numbers are what they are.

My issue is with the structure and intent of these initiatives. There is a difference between giving aid & support and getting some kind of organic benefit from it (like warm words at UN, general goodwill etc) versus having some concrete and more-or-less measurable expectations of what we should get for it. Business share is an obvious one. Others could be share in education & healthcare, relationships with powerful and influential people in society, military etc. All with expansionist intent—improve the numbers steadily.

It is unclear whether these initiatives are coordinated with profit making and nonprofit private initiatives, for example. They could provide the resources and energy and the GoI could be backing them with its influence, hard power etc as appropriate.

For all I know, things may already be happening in this manner. But from what I can see, they are not; we are making friends, giving government-level aid, but largely leaving the other countries alone, and not getting too involved.

Indian tentacles—benign of course—should be everywhere.

[A_Gupta]

A benign way of doing it would be that any Indian company that won a competitive bid abroad can apply to the Indian government for concessional financing that will be awarded based on the Indian government's assessment of its value to Indian strategic objectives. Likewise any foreign project in some list of countries that will use more than X% of Indian supplies - goods, services or labor - can apply to the Indian government for help with financing.

Of course, this will require the the GoI be objective in assessing the viability and value of the project and not corruptible. Further, there should be no guarantee or even expectation before the project bid is made that there will be financial help. IMO, this is a very essential part of keeping it benign rather than imperialist or anything else.

[Amber G.]

California becomes 3rd US state to recognize Diwali as a holiday:

California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed a bill into law on Oct. 6, effective Jan. 1, that would authorize public schools and community colleges to close on Diwali. Employees and students will also be allowed to take excused time off to celebrate the popular holiday.

---
The other two states that have designated Diwali as a recognized state holiday, joining California, are Pennsylvania and Connecticut.

(All three laws generally authorize, but do not mandate, public schools and community colleges to close or allow students and state employees to take the day off to celebrate the holiday.)

Status in some other states I know (some of us were lobbying it for some time):

-New York City (NYC) - Diwali is an official school holiday for New York City public schools - making it mandatory for all NYC public schools to close on Diwali.  

( This applies specifically to the school district of New York City and does not make Diwali a statewide holiday for all of New York. There is active legislation in the New York State Senate (2025-S1160) to establish Diwali as a statewide school holiday for all public schools in New York) 

Ohio - state law was passed that allows Hindu students to take a holiday for Diwali and two other religious holidays per school year without being penalized.

Also: Ohio has officially designated October as Hindu Heritage Month in the state.
This was established through legislation signed by Governor Mike DeWine, recognizing the contributions of Hindu Americans to the state's culture and life.

October is generally chosen for this observance nationally because it is when many major Hindu festivals, including Diwali and Navaratri, are celebrated.
(Virginia and North Carolina are among other states that have also made similar proclamations recognizing October as Hindu Heritage Month)  

New Jersey & Texas: Diwali recognition and have seen various local or legislative efforts.

[Manish_P]

Someday there will be more fireworks allowed on Diwali day in the USA than in India

[Amber G.]

CA governor Gavin Newsom vetoes the highly controversial SB 509, the “transnational repression training” bill.

The bill, introduced by @CASenCaballero & @AsmJasmeetBains was strongly opposed by coalitions of Hindu, Indian American, Jewish & law-enforcement organizations for its vague terminology and because it defined TNR in a way that could label advocacy against the terrorism-linked Khalistan movement as acting as an “agent of a foreign government.”

@CAgovernors veto allows all Californians to continue advocating fearlessly.
(I put a note about this bill in BRF = asking US citizens to write to the governor to Veto the bill .. glad to see that the bill is Vetoed)

[Rudradev]

Interesting. Gavin Newsom has come through TWICE for Hindu-Americans, veto-ing activist bills backed by Pak-sponsored groups specifically to target the Hindu community in California.

First SB 403, the "caste discrimination" bill introduced by Ayesha Wahab to provide legal backing for baseless anti-Hindu witch-hunts like the CISCO case (and worse).

Now SB 509, the "transnational repression" bill, which would have made it perfectly OK for Khalistanis to continue attacks of desecration against Hindu temples but would have targeted Hindus as "agents of Indian Government" engaging in transnational repression if we tried to fight back.

In contrast, Trump has appointed a very high-profile Khalistani activist-- Harmeet Dhillon-- as "US Attorney General for Civil Rights" at the US Department of Justice.

[gakakkad]

The great brown sepoy Ashley tellis arrested for spying for the ccp . I think he is in deep Shiite .

I never liked him but who would have think he is spying for the chicoms .

[A_Gupta]

Did Ashley Tellis do anything to put him on Trump's enemy list?

-----
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diploma ... ies-probed

Reacting to the news of the charges, Amit Malviya, head of the Bharatiya Janata Party’s National Information and Technology Department, suggested that Tellis’s past criticisms of the government now take on new context.

“This explains why Ashley Tellis, often cited and celebrated by India’s opposition, spoke so frequently and harshly against us. The forces working against India are beginning to unravel in ways few could have imagined,” he said.

[Amber G.]

FWIW: From above (link is subscription)

- He is accused of hoarding over 1,000 pages of classified U.S. government documents, including materials marked “Top Secret” and “Secret,” in unsecured locations at his home
- The Justice Department alleges he repeatedly removed classified information from secure government facilities and stored it at his residence, without adequate : He has had multiple meetings over the years with Chinese officials. T

- The arrest occurred shortly before he and his family were scheduled to depart for Rome.

What Tellis Has Said / Done wrt Trump-

- Tellis has publicly commented that under Trump, U.S. foreign policy (concerning India) is changing from a focus on strategic alliances/geopolitics toward trade, tariffs.. etc
- He has been critical of some actions, such as trade measures (tariffs), visa policies, etc.
- He did write things like.. “America’s Bad Bet on India” and “India’s Great-Power Delusions”..

[chetak]

Someday there will be more fireworks allowed on Diwali day in the USA than in India

Manish ji,

people will burst whatever crackers that they want and no order from on high is going to stop them

the aapis and paapis are long gone and the cops are not going to come looking for anyone

people in non BJP states may have to be a bit careful is all

the application for permission is a mere formality. no one is going to wait with bated breath for the answer

even in the deep south, they keep bursting crackers far into the night, ignoring the time limits notified

[gakakkad]

I think he was probably spying for the Chinese . In hindsight it's not implausible. The chicoms are masters of honey trapping and ego tripping people with teeny weiners which this brown sahib likely was. On the whole good riddance .

[Amber G.]

'He assured me': Trump says PM Modi told him he won't purchase Russian oil; wants same from China

[Amber G.]

News here is about now is Ashley Tellis getting arrested in the US but IMO it is little crazy especially when you look back at his history ..

Remember the 2008 Civil Nuclear Deal? The agreement that was the major turning point in India-US relations?

Well, Tellis was a key architect on the US side. He was a major player who worked tirelessly behind the scenes with Indian officials, including guys like S. Jaishankar (who was a diplomat then), to make sure that complex deal actually happened. At the time, India saw the deal as a huge win—it essentially lifted the US ban on nuclear technology trade and established the "global strategic partnership." For a long stretch, he was widely seen as one of the "good guys" in the American strategic establishment who pushed for India.

The wild thing is the contrast: this same man is now in the news for all the wrong reasons, and in recent years, his public standing in India has soured because he's become such a sharp critic of the current government. His essays about India's "great-power delusions" made him seriously unpopular ...

What a fall..

[A_Gupta]

Per AI, Ashley Tellis turned critical of India in 2023.

[Vayutuvan]

2008 was INC govt headed by (controversial) Dr. MMS. Also A. Tellis is a Xtian name. We don't know whether he is a practicing Xtian, but the then president of INC was Ms. Sonia Gandhi (is she a catholic?) who exerted enormous influence on Dr. MMS. This is all known to all of us at BRF.

One wonders whether Dr. Tellis was helping Ms. Sonia Gandhi who had a private agreement with the Chinese rather than Bhaarat and Bhaarateeya at large.

[A_Gupta]

Ashley Tellis has been under FBI scrutiny from 2022 if not earlier.

[g.sarkar]

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 025-10-16/
Oil rises 1% after Trump says India promised to stop buying from Russia
Katya Golubkova and Sam Li, October 16, 20251
OKYO, Oct 16 (Reuters) - Oil prices rose around 1% on Thursday after U.S. President Donald Trump said Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had pledged his country would stop buying oil from Russia, a move that could drain supply elsewhere.
Brent crude futures rose 56 cents, or 0.9%, to $62.47 a barrel by 0655 GMT. U.S. West Texas Intermediate (WTI) futures climbed 58 cents, or 1%, to $58.85.
The Reuters Power Up newsletter provides everything you need to know about the global energy industry. Sign up here.
Both contracts touched their lowest since early May in the previous session on U.S.-China trade tensions and after the International Energy Agency warned of a big surplus next year as OPEC+ producers and rivals lift output amid weak demand.
Trump said on Wednesday that India - which taps its top supplier Russia for about one-third of its oil imports - would halt oil purchases from Russia, and the U.S. would next try to get China to do the same as Washington intensifies efforts to cut off Moscow's energy revenues and pressure it to negotiate a peace deal in Ukraine.
However, India said on Thursday that the country's two main goals were to ensure stable energy prices and secure supply. The foreign ministry statement made no reference to Trump's comment about India's purchases of Russian oil.
Some Indian refiners are preparing to cut Russian oil imports, with expectations of a gradual reduction, three sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.
......
Gautam
There are reports in the media that DJT is trying to make sure that the oil prices do not fall beyond a point when US oil production (from fracking?) is adversely affected. India has long term oil purchasing contracts and can not just stop buying Russian oil at the drop of a topi.

[chetak]

Per AI, Ashley Tellis turned critical of India in 2023.

A_Gupta ji,


the little schitt looks evil

[chetak]

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 025-10-16/
Oil rises 1% after Trump says India promised to stop buying from Russia
Katya Golubkova and Sam Li, October 16, 20251
OKYO, Oct 16 (Reuters) - Oil prices rose around 1% on Thursday after U.S. President Donald Trump said Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had pledged his country would stop buying oil from Russia, a move that could drain supply elsewhere.
Brent crude futures rose 56 cents, or 0.9%, to $62.47 a barrel by 0655 GMT. U.S. West Texas Intermediate (WTI) futures climbed 58 cents, or 1%, to $58.85.
The Reuters Power Up newsletter provides everything you need to know about the global energy industry. Sign up here.
Both contracts touched their lowest since early May in the previous session on U.S.-China trade tensions and after the International Energy Agency warned of a big surplus next year as OPEC+ producers and rivals lift output amid weak demand.
Trump said on Wednesday that India - which taps its top supplier Russia for about one-third of its oil imports - would halt oil purchases from Russia, and the U.S. would next try to get China to do the same as Washington intensifies efforts to cut off Moscow's energy revenues and pressure it to negotiate a peace deal in Ukraine.
However, India said on Thursday that the country's two main goals were to ensure stable energy prices and secure supply. The foreign ministry statement made no reference to Trump's comment about India's purchases of Russian oil.
Some Indian refiners are preparing to cut Russian oil imports, with expectations of a gradual reduction, three sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.
......
Gautam
There are reports in the media that DJT is trying to make sure that the oil prices do not fall beyond a point when US oil production (from fracking?) is adversely affected. India has long term oil purchasing contracts and can not just stop buying Russian oil at the drop of a topi.

Gautam saar,


‘Consumer interests guide oil imports’: India on Trump’s claim of stopping Russian oil purchase


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 595929.cms

"India is a significant importer of oil and gas. It has been our consistent priority to safeguard the interests of the Indian consumer in a volatile energy scenario. Our import policies are guided entirely by this objective," said MEA spokesperson Randhir Jaiswal.

Stating stable energy prices and secured supplies as India's twin goals of our energy policy, Jaiswal said: "This includes broad-basing our energy sourcing and diversifying as appropriate to meet market conditions."

[Tanaji]

Donald Trumps statements have less validity than the idrw.org site….

[putnanja]

As per reports, while Indian govt refineries reduced purchase from Russia, private sector ones like Reliance and Nayara increased their purchase, and total purchase from Russia almost remained same in Sept. Basically, GoI is saying "we are reducing Russian oil purchase but we can't control what private sector companies does" in true babudom fashion

[uddu]

Trump is dreaming of Telephonic calls with NaMo. Everything else is Maya onlee.
https://x.com/sidhant/status/1978788012889723154
@sidhant
Breaking: No telephonic talks have happened between PM Modi, US President Donald Trump yesterday: MEA

[A_Gupta]

Trump also spoke warmly of his relationship with PM Modi.
“Modi is a great man. He loves Trump,” he said, referring to himself in the third person. “I’ve watched India for years. It’s an incredible country, and every single year you’d have a new leader. My friend has been there now for a long time.”

Vajpayee - 1999-2004
Manmohan Singh - 2004-2014
Modi - 2014-present

"....and every single year you'd have a new leader...."

[g.sarkar]

Trump is dreaming of Telephonic calls with NaMo. Everything else is Maya onlee.
https://x.com/sidhant/status/1978788012889723154
@sidhant
Breaking: No telephonic talks have happened between PM Modi, US President Donald Trump yesterday: MEA

DJT does not need a telephone, with his friends and low IQ enemies he uses telepathy.
Gautam

[skumar]

At some point, PM has to address Trump directly and not through the MEA spokesperson..

https://x.com/MEAIndia/status/1978690629522653592

The clarification does not directly address Trump's claim. If you can say there was no call between Trump and Modi yesterday, why not go all the way and there was no such commitment made?

[A_Gupta]

Of course it addresses Trump's claim: "

"I was not happy that India was buying oil. And he (Modi) assured me today that they will not be buying oil from Russia. That's a big stop," he pointedly claimed.

"India has denied that Donald Trump and Modi held a phone call regarding New Delhi's purchase of Russian oil."

Why should India say anything more? What if Trump said - today, Modi assured me that only 3 Rafales were shot down and that India will hold talks with Pakistan and India will not recognize the Afghanistan Taliban government, and India will send peace keeping troops to Gaza.

Why should India say anything more than sorry, they did not speak?

[Vayutuvan]

@skumar ji, good point. I think babus are in their "terminological exactitude" avatar.

[RCase]

At some point, PM has to address Trump directly and not through the MEA spokesperson..

https://x.com/MEAIndia/status/1978690629522653592

The clarification does not directly address Trump's claim. If you can say there was no call between Trump and Modi yesterday, why not go all the way and there was no such commitment made?

Trump checked his Untruth Social and saw double blue ticks against his great friend Modiji for his tweet.

[skumar]

Of course it addresses Trump's claim: "

"I was not happy that India was buying oil. And he (Modi) assured me today that they will not be buying oil from Russia. That's a big stop," he pointedly claimed.

"India has denied that Donald Trump and Modi held a phone call regarding New Delhi's purchase of Russian oil."

I think you have not heard the press briefing by the MEA (https://x.com/MEAIndia/status/1978787065056669950) nor read the press note (https://x.com/MEAIndia/status/1978690629522653592).
MEA spokesperson, R Jaiswal, asked to refer to the press note and said as far as he knows (which leaves doubt) there was no call between Modi and Trump yesterday. Jaiswal did not say "phone call regarding New Delhi's purchase of Russian oil" though it does not need to be stated (if there was no phone call, does not matter what was not discussed) - but that you quote (literally put in quotes) an inaccuracy is the point probably because you did not refer to primary sources.

Press note does not say that phone call did not take place. In fact it suggests that talks regarding energy procurement from US are ongoing with the current administration (and to play the devil's advocate, Trump could turn around and say he was referring to this) while also stating "priority to safeguard interest of Indian consumer in a volatile energy scenario". Is it in the interest of the Indian consumer to procure higher cost US energy?

Why should India say anything more? What if Trump said - today, Modi assured me that only 3 Rafales were shot down and that India will hold talks with Pakistan and India will not recognize the Afghanistan Taliban government, and India will send peace keeping troops to Gaza.

Why should India say anything more than sorry, they did not speak?

Ok, we hear this argument a lot. Let us flip the question - so at what point would Modi think it was necessary to respond to Trump? Trying to be more flippant than the example you have given, probably if Trump said that Modi was caught trying to sneak out some M&Ms when he was in the White House the last time?

[Y. Kanan]

So it looks like we bent the knee. When push came to shove, we chose the US over Russia. US market access is worth more than Russian friendship.

I think the Indian public is being prepped for this major realignment, so it's being phased in amidst denials and confused messaging. Our leaders can't just come out and admit we're dumping Russia for the US, especially as it's so obvious we were forced into doing so.

[skumar]

Trump has reiterated claiming to have solved the India-Pak skirmish at least 40+ times - he has referred to using trade threats to force both the parties at least 10+ times including in a written submission before a US court that is deciding on the legality of sanctions.

Imagine India, US and Pakistan were people instead of countries.

That is Trump saying my friend may have raped your daughter but I threatened your business or offered you some money to keep shut about it. That should have been a red line which Trump was made aware of publicly.

[ricky_v]

^^you can probably wax more eloquence, some more idioms and phrases could probably help explain more what you're trying to convey, no need to be bashful

Coincidentally, this is the official mea notice, which is a big word salad of masterful inactivity and says nothing, though if one is in a poetic state of mind and reading tea leaves like nobody's business, shayari precedes illusory meaning even from cursory glances