Multi-Role Tanker Transport: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

Please use this thread on discussions related to MRTT (Multi-Role Tanker Transport) aircraft.

[Rakesh]

I don't wish to derail this thread. Is there a separate thread on Air refuelers ?

We don't have one and your idea is a good one. So I just created one right now. Unfortunately, I could not move your post to this thread, as the time stamp of your post would precede the header (first) post. So I am quoting your post from the Transport Aircraft for IAF thread, but I have to delete your post in that thread. My apologies for that.

Israel is a master at converting used 767s into tankers. We have wet leased one A330MRTT (three years) and one KC-135 refueler (one year).

I wanted to know how difficult /technically inefficient / cost prohibitive it is to convert civilian air liners into military refuelers.

The reason I ask is looking at the way our civilian airliners fleet is growing in a couple of decades there will be a lot of these birds being retired/sold off.

If our labs do partnership/JVs with the conversion specialists now for their current offerings then maybe in 2 decades time we could be having the know-how and experience in converting those birds into military refuelers.

This is not an insurmountable task at all. See this article with video below from the IAI (Israeli Aircraft Industries) website....

Multi Mission Tanker Transport (MMTT)
https://www.iai.co.il/p/multi-mission-t ... sport-mmtt

From Google Chacha ---> IAI previously offered a converted 767 tanker, a platform similar to the A330 MRTT, at a price of approximately $150 million per aircraft for the Israeli Air Force, according to The War Zone.

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And below is also from Google Chacha...

The A330 MRTT unit cost varies but is generally estimated to be between $300 million and $340 million, based on recent military acquisitions. For example, South Korea's purchase of four aircraft in 2015 was about $325 million each, and the UAE's purchase of two aircraft in 2021 was about $340 million each. Costs can fluctuate depending on customization, the source of the aircraft (new-build vs. conversion), and the specific deal.

* South Korea: ~$325 million per aircraft (2015)

* United Arab Emirates: ~$340 million per aircraft (2021)

* Canada: A 2023 contract for four new and five converted aircraft is estimated at a total of $3 billion CAD (approximately $2.1 billion USD), which includes a mix of new and converted aircraft and is an estimate for the entire project.

* Spain: The conversion of three former Iberia A330s to MRTTs is costing €675 million, or about €225 million ($246 million) per aircraft, according to Aviacionline.

Factors Influencing Unit Cost

New-build vs. converted: The cost can be lower if a country buys and converts an existing commercial A330 instead of purchasing a new one from Airbus.

Customization: The final unit cost is heavily dependent on the specific modifications and equipment required for each customer's mission profile.

Deal structure: The overall price is often part of a larger package that may include support, maintenance, and training, making it difficult to compare individual unit costs between different countries.

[Rakesh]

^^^ If the above figures from Google Chacha are correct, one can see that the A330 MRTT (new build) is really expensive. The Israeli model is a lot cheaper, but you have to also factor in utility and usability. Age of airframe is also another factor.

[Manish_P]

I don't wish to derail this thread. Is there a separate thread on Air refuelers ?

We don't have one and your idea is a good one. So I just created one right now. Unfortunately, I could not move your post to this thread, as the time stamp of your post would precede the header (first) post. So I am quoting your post from the Transport Aircraft for IAF thread, but I have to delete your post in that thread. My apologies for that.

No issue

Thank you for creating this thread

A refueler aircraft is an important force multiplier like AEWACS and i am glad that this dedicated thread has been created for it.

This will be a very valuable learning experience for me.

And I am especially happy that the word 'Multi-role' has been included in the title of the thread...

[Manish_P]

^^^ If the above figures from Google Chacha are correct, one can see that the A330 MRTT (new build) is really expensive. The Israeli model is a lot cheaper, but you have to also factor in utility and usability. Age of airframe is also another factor.

Noted.

Actually i had queried ChatGPT, Perplexity etc on the 'Dedicated tankers versus Converted Airliners' in detail. And i refined my query 3-4 times to get to a fairly comprehensive analysis with summation and bulleted charts and a scoring comparison.

The answer goes into a rather long 3-4 page article type essay which i will need some time to read, re-read and understand.

So an Aircraft vs Aircraft comparison is still a very long way away for me

I think ChatGPT understood what a dim sort of chap i am and so kindly offered a side by side comparison of some 50 odd points - split into technical capability/feasibility, supply chain & logistical issues, political and strategic independence, costs etc

(screenshot of a few points below)