India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[Mort Walker]

Whoa. Hard to keep track of this love hate relationship

easy., a marriage of convenience , each when it suits the purpose. no love here

As said by people in Obama admin at the time. The India-US relationship is a "friends with benefits" type of deal. However the "benefits" side is gone since the Trump admin wants anal only. For that they have the Pakis.

[uddu]

Nothing new here. Said to be the renewal of the 10 year pact that was signed in 2005 or so. Every 10 years its getting renewed.
One more thing is the Chahbahar port sanction waiver extension came just before this. May be we bargained for it for renewal without delay.

Chahbahar port sanction waiver extension = 1 year
defence-pact renewal = 10 years

Not even 1 year.. six months. Bargain could mean India could delay signing the agreement and must have asked for the port sanction extension. This is just an assumption about the timing. Many more things could be agreed and bargained for by both sides.

[SSridhar]

. . . India could not have met China in Ladakh recently on an equal footing without American equipment.

Not only equipment, but also real-time assistance. It is well known.

Both need each other a great deal. Just look at Asia where China wants to be the regional hegemon (which would mean annexing Taiwan, projecting power well into IOR, bullying smaller countries into further submission, hijacking ASEAN, RCEP etc). Asia's western periphery may have some American allies but they are not militarily powerful nations.

Geographically, India occupies the centre of Asia, controls IOR, is a nuclear power with powerful delivery platforms, a space-power, has one of the largest militaries, a long-standing stable democracy, has the largest population, consistently & rapidly growing economy, a reliable partner not given to impulsive & reflex decision-making, a civilizational power with a very large diaspora, a country with whom US trade is expected to reach 500B in next five years, and a country which maintains good and non-contentious relationship with almost all countries in Asia (save for two) etc.

When Shinzo Abe called India & Japan as like book-ends in Indo-Pacific, he just did not convey the geographical limits of a new entity called the Indo-Pacific, he really conveyed the idea of a sandwiched China.

Mackinder & Spykman can be re-assessed today as 'Whoever controls Asia controls the World'.

[chetak]

Guys, we may be over thinking this

trump wants India to buy amriki oil and amriki weapons (and continue to do so in perpetuity and keep saying "yes massa" when ever squeezed) so that the amrikis not only maintain their lock on India but are also able to squeeze India as and when they feel the need to do so, like now, for example.

Recall that during kargil, when the IAF needed the GPS the most for their precision attacks on paki positions on the kargil peaks, the amrikis made sure that we did not have any access to that specific resource. This deliberately limited our ability to fight, and greatly degraded our command and control processes.

This is neither the first time such hostile amriki actions were used against India, and nor will it be the last.

the series of regime change attempts have been brushed under the carpet because some general has come out with his logic. Surely there would be multiple viewpoints on this matter. These attempts started with the "farmers protests" and associated events that predates this collection of crises that was triggered by the tariff toofan that this clown unleashed and is now unable to get the genie to go back into the bottle

So why was India targeted as early as 2020–2021 by the Indian farmers' protest followed by the dilli riots. That happened when trump was in India, which in turn points to complicated advance planning, secure hawala finances, working to a deadline and coordinating the mayhem in front of the global press that was part of the trump entourage that descended on India. It required jihadi, khalistani, kanadian, amriki, britshit, turkish and qatari assets and resources in the mix, plus PFI and ISIS assets operating in country. khujlis and the congis were in it up to their necks, along with commies and urban naxals

we are now discussing the bits and pieces of these sets of tactics and strategy seen separately, when the big picture is still hidden from public view and no one is talking about how this battlefield was shaped then and how it still is being shaped today

The dilli police are now submitting documents in shargil imam case for bail. For the first time in India, such documents mention "regime change"

Delhi riots or "Operation regime change"

You will be shocked. Delhi Police have made a major claim by filing an affidavit in the Supreme Court The Delhi riots of 2020 were not "ordinary violence Instead, they were part of a "regime change operation."

According to police These riots are not the result of sudden inflammation rather an organized and planned political operation, which was intended Breaking the internal peace of India, and spoiling the country's image on the international stage.

Delhi Police said clearly in the affidavit The CAA protest was just an excuse, The real target was India's sovereignty and integrity.
found in the investigation "Technical, documentary and direct evidence who add to the plot by many names including Omar Khalid, Shargil Imam, Meeran Haider and Gulfisha Fatima.

And the most surprising thing The police claim it all The purpose of violence is internal peace and was to spoil the international image CAA as an anti-Muslim law was to spread unrest.

The police accuse the conspiracy of being an American president made during Donald Trump's visit to India, which aims to attract international attention and to show the country in the wrong light.

the marshall plan freeloaders in europe have realized that there is no free lunch so they are desperately diversifying into weapons and weapon systems productions to reduce the dependence on amrika which is on a global hunt for resources and dependent markets.

The destruction of the russki oil/gas pipelines into europe was no flash in the pan but a deliberate attempt to destabilize established supply chains and replace them with preferred sources

UKR used to supply huge quantities of grain and that resource is now mostly amriki controlled, locked in by long term contracts. cheen also has lots of ukr land under lease where they produce food for themselves. The saudis have vast farm land holdings in africa and some in ukr as well.

Most of the gulf countries have "aligned" with India because they are trying to leverage "investments" for establishing supply chains grain and other agro products sourced from India which they see as a stable and dependable polity

the beedis have recently received many tens of thousands of tons of food grain from a gulf country that has huge stockpiles of grain and other agro inventories. The grain given to the beedis is Indian grain

India, on it's own, comprehensively checks most of these boxes. The battlespace is now being shaped by the BIF

Are the gelf countries trying to do with money what the amrikis are hell bent on doing to India by force

So the question remains: who gains if India becomes a new age technological colony that is also extremely resource rich with a young population and transforms into a camp follower rather than forging ahead as an independently motivated global leader and innovator, an entity that is more than capable of bring in a full spectrum development agenda that also benefits allies and partners at large (UPI being one case in point). All this and more, with no geopolitical, cultural, religious or even demographic baggage

Going forward and if trump had his way, NATO does not seem to have that a rosy future but the euros are banking on a possible fall back of using the french nuclear arsenal which they are trying to leverage into a euro centric program to partly replace their dependencies on the amrikis.

All trump is saying is that, pay your way for the amriki services you receive and the freeloading euros have all got their panties in a twist

The BIF want India completely hobbled and hogtied, otherwise their free run is in grave jeopardy.

These colonial powers precipitated two global wars in their scramble for resources.

They may all be thinking that it may be good for them to reestablish the colonial system but with a technological flavor dominating the narrative




mackinder & spykman have reached the end of the road.

These are times when countries can reach across the globe with precision targeted missiles that have a CEP of almost next to nothing.

"control" has taken on a new dimension altogether. How does one explain the geopolitical and geoeconomic muscle of, say a saudi arabia or even qatar, for instance. qatar comes with al jazeera and it's evil support for terrorist entities. Both initiatives have major elements of control built into them, with geopolitical repercussions to boot

This new age "control" is a very a modern concept that would never have occurred to mackinder or spykman because such hypotheses would have been way beyond their imagination or postulation.

These theories did not incorporate things like airpower because these guys simply did not know of such weapons or as one could say newer elements of "control" that are now routinely taken for granted.

[drnayar]

US is arm twisting every country to suit it's needs and wants

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-as ... y-concerns

However, a clause requiring Malaysia to align itself with the US on matters of economic restrictions or sanctions against a third country has raised alarm bells on both sides of the political divide, with critics warning that it may threaten the country’s independence and longstanding neutrality stance.

India has the highest tariffs of any country.
It's diaspora has been squeezed

Matter of time who blinks first.

China squeezed back and America blinked

[drnayar]

https://www.ft.com/content/fae0ec80-1d6 ... bf911d9001

US pushes for wider global dollar adoption
Officials in Washington explore how to encourage more countries to adopt greenback as their primary currency

[A_Gupta]

The common strategic interest of India and the US is to contain China. But this containment has different aspects.

The US wants to contain the Chinese economy. I don’t think India has the means or ambition to do so. India wants to grow to be Viksit Bharat by 2047, and China’s situation is secondary. That is, India has some absolute targets, and if China grows or stagnates doesn’t matter as long as India hits those targets.

On the diplomatic front, the US should realize that a strategically autonomous India will have more credibility in the Global South and better able to counter Chinese influence. Small global south countries can be American or Chinese vassals if they want to, but they really want to be independent with a large, non-imperial country to cover their lacunae as small countries, and that will be India, as long as India is not tied at the hip to either China or the US.

On the defense front, the India-US defense framework is adequate, military alliance is not necessary.

On the technology front, India presents a huge opportunity for American companies, and India can easily be within the hi-tech trusted supply chain, in contrast to China.

The “deep state” originally meant in the US a rogue intelligence agency, secretly backed by powerful politicians- typically a Senator or Congressman who could keep them secretly funded. Now the Deep State has different meanings to different people, but if we consider it to be an elite in business, military, government and academia whose view of US interests is stable relative to the US administrations that come and go, then India-US relations are steady at this deep state level. At the political and people level though, it is highly volatile and threatens the strategic relationship. IMO, this is almost entirely because of the antics of the American side.

[SSridhar]

The common strategic interest of India and the US is to contain China. But this containment has different aspects.

The US wants to contain the Chinese economy. I don’t think India has the means or ambition to do so. India wants to grow to be Viksit Bharat by 2047, and China’s situation is secondary. That is, India has some absolute targets, and if China grows or stagnates doesn’t matter as long as India hits those targets.

Of course, our and American goals may not always coincide even in the China front.
At the same time, while the primary Indian ambition is Viksit Bharat, elimination of poverty, achieving/exceeding the declared HDGs etc, India also realizes that it is all not possible without security, without peace on the border especially in the evolving geopolitical situation. China is the only threat for India and everything else follows.

[Manish_P]

^ Due respect Sridhar sir, China is the primary threat for now but not the only threat.

[tandav]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 56445.html

So the final nail in the coffin of the US India relationship may be marked by the symbolic the divorce of JD Vance from his brown Hindu wife and marrying the blonde CEO of Turning Point MAGA USA and widow of Charlie Kirk: Erika Kirk.

[A_Gupta]

This is CCP opinion.
US spy chief claims strategy of 'regime change' is over; not a hegemony rethink, nor abandonment of interventionism, say observers
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202511/1347158.shtml

Addressing officials on Friday in the Middle East, the US National Intelligence Director Tulsi Gabbard claimed that America's former strategy of "regime change or nation building" had ended under President Donald Trump, AP reported local time Saturday. According to some Chinese observers, the purpose of such a claim was to serve Republican interests and criticize previous Democratic administrations rather than truly reflecting on the US hegemonic approach. They believed that the Trump administration's current foreign policy has placed greater emphasis on cost efficiency, while interference in other countries' internal affairs has continued unabated, albeit in a more interest-oriented manner.

...
...

AP quoted Gabbard as saying that "for decades, our foreign policy has been trapped in a counterproductive and endless cycle of regime change or nation building."

While calling it a "one-size-fits-all approach, of toppling regimes, trying to impose our system of governance on others, intervening in conflicts that were barely understood and walking away with more enemies than allies," Gabbard admitted the results were "trillions spent, countless lives lost and in many cases, the creation of greater security threats."

Serving partisan interests, such a claim merely criticized past policies rather than genuinely reflecting on US hegemony, Lü Xiang, a research fellow at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times on Sunday.

Li Haidong, a professor at the China Foreign Affairs University, said the shift in US foreign approach was a passive adjustment caused by domestic difficulties.

He stressed, however, that this shift does not signal a complete abandonment of interventionism. The US has always believed that "the more Americanized the world becomes, the safer America is." Once it regains strength, its traditional playbook of overseas interference and regime subversion is likely to return, Li warned.

Despite the claim by the US national intelligence director, the AP noted that Gabbard did not mention the US deployment of warships off South America, fatal strikes targeting alleged drug-running boats and US orders for the CIA to run covert operations targeting Venezuela, which has stoked fears of invasion and speculation that the US could try to topple the Venezuelan president.

[ShauryaT]

The common strategic interest of India and the US is to contain China. But this containment has different aspects.

The US wants to contain the Chinese economy. I don’t think India has the means or ambition to do so. India wants to grow to be Viksit Bharat by 2047, and China’s situation is secondary. That is, India has some absolute targets, and if China grows or stagnates doesn’t matter as long as India hits those targets.

Of course, our and American goals may not always coincide even in the China front.
At the same time, while the primary Indian ambition is Viksit Bharat, elimination of poverty, achieving/exceeding the declared HDGs etc, India also realizes that it is all not possible without security, without peace on the border especially in the evolving geopolitical situation. China is the only threat for India and everything else follows.

I will 2nd that. Furthermore, power is if not a zero sum game, at the very least a game of balance of powers. China is the only "threat". India is a threat to Pakistan. Pakistan is a nuisance to India, sustained only due to external support.

[Amber G.]

Pakistan Binds China & U.S. To Kashmir Issue Via CPEC & Nukes: Kiriakou’s Revelations Ignite Geopolitical Storm: OPED

Former CIA officer John Kiriakou exposed Pakistan’s double game and U.S. complicity, revealing decades of state-sponsored terrorism, elite corruption, and strategic deception. His revelations highlight how Islamabad’s reliance on external powers undermines regional stability and India’s security.

[Adrija]

How come no views/ responses on what used to be a red flag during Obama's time?

https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1983704240691564995

[skumar]

The US realizes it can no longer contain China. Now, it wants to manage the rise of China as long as possible in alignment with its objectives,

G2 / G7 mean nothing to the US.

[Amber G.]

(xpost)'Pakistan Is Testing Nukes, US Also Needs To': Trump On Need For Nuclear Order

[Vayutuvan]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 56445.html

So the final nail in the coffin of the US India relationship may be marked by the symbolic the divorce of JD Vance from his brown Hindu wife and marrying the blonde CEO of Turning Point MAGA USA and widow of Charlie Kirk: Erika Kirk.

No, not so fast. I don't think it will come to that. Usha Vance might even convert. She is definitely ambitious, as ambitious as any Indian-Hindu-American. Who doesn't want to be the first first lady of color?!!!

I ask you why KD Harris adopted her absent father's religion rather than stay with the Sanaatana Dharma of her mother, who single-handedly raised her and her sister?!

Vivek Ramaswamy stayed with the Sanaatana Dharma, yet his views are quite syncretic.

In any case, this is not at all relevant to India-US relations. They are Americans, and they will do what they think is good for the US and for themselves. Mostly for themselves. I would do the same if I were in that position. We are not the sole protectors of the Sanaatana Dharma. Please tell me how well the Sanaatana Dhaarmees in India are doing, considering our temples are being looted/raided by the GOI to be given to Mohammedans and Xtists.

[Amber G.]

^^^^ At 14.35 mnts the American president says that Pakistan is testing nuclear weapons. (This part is in the unedited version put out by Trump. CBS has edited it out in the version they put out.)

<video>Trump just dropped the full 73-minute unedited version of his 60 Minutes interview, claiming the network “cut too much.”

<clip>"India was going to have nuclear war with Pakistan. The PM of Pakistan stood up...if Donald Trump didnt get involved many millions of people would have been dead", Trump to America outlet

"Pakistan has been testing. They don’t go and tell you about it. As powerful as they are, this is a big world. You don’t know where they’re testing. They test way underground."

[KL Dubey]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 56445.html

So the final nail in the coffin of the US India relationship may be marked by the symbolic the divorce of JD Vance from his brown Hindu wife and marrying the blonde CEO of Turning Point MAGA USA and widow of Charlie Kirk: Erika Kirk.

While it is speculation that these things may happen, just photos of hugs are not reliable indicators. Here's Usha V and Erika K (just a random example among many more on the internet): https://www.facebook.com/terrencekwilli ... 111137923/

[KL Dubey]

Of course, our and American goals may not always coincide even in the China front.
At the same time, while the primary Indian ambition is Viksit Bharat, elimination of poverty, achieving/exceeding the declared HDGs etc, India also realizes that it is all not possible without security, without peace on the border especially in the evolving geopolitical situation. China is the only threat for India and everything else follows.

Yes, the challenge in growing powerful is that Bharat needs to work internally on multiple urgent development areas, at the same time handling an unfriendly neighborhood and some "iffy friends/frenemies" further outside of the neighborhood. I agree PRC/CCP is the only real threat. It is a single "front" with these fellows, from Gujarat to Ladakh to Tawang to Chittagong, and from one end of the Indian Ocean to the other. The characters may look different - from Packee brownpants to PLA goons to BD/MM dingbats - but it is the same enemy.

[ShauryaT]

The US realizes it can no longer contain China. Now, it wants to manage the rise of China as long as possible in alignment with its objectives,

G2 / G7 mean nothing to the US.

I think it is the other way around. US used to think it could manage the rise of China and has failed. Now, It is definitely on the containment path. Officially, it is a "strategic competitor". However, actions are for containment by US. If Containment fails, it will move to deterrence to avoid great power conflict. I would characterize the state of affairs to be one of breaches in containment by China followed by fortifications by US in the region. AUKUS, QUAD, reset with many SE Asian nations as examples of fortifications. China will seek to expand the breaches, as it relates to freedom of Navigation and Chinese Maritime powers to build capacities to breach the first island chains. Anyways, OT for this thread but India can and should act as an added weight in this balance and can NO longer face China by herself in the near future. (Not happy to admit to this). Quad should be taken to its logical end. An alignment.

[chetak]

‘MILLET Bun Burger’ prepared by McDonalds using indigenous technology developed by CFTRI, Mysuru.

This technology is powered by Science & Technology Ministry.

DESPITE ALL OPPOSITION TO FARM LAWS, PM .@narendramodi JI ENSURES MARKET REACHES FARMERS.






We should send this millet burger to trump, fried in some delicious russian oil, of course

[eklavya]

Quad should be taken to its logical end. An alignment.

Logic in action.

[chetak]

Left-Liberal Fake Narrative Backfires: Bangladeshi Shoplifter in US Wrongly Branded as Gujarati by Congress IT Cell and TMC MP sagarika ghose

[Amber G.]

Chetakji: ^^^If Modi had not persecuted Bangladeshis she would have entered Bengal easily and by now would have been an Indian woman with at least half a dozen Aadhaar cards. It is because of Modi that she had to go all the way to the US to shoplift.

[Rudradev]

Dick Cheney (architect of Neocon foreign policy, Iraq War, and much more) is dead.

[A_Gupta]

You mean he stopped breathing. Popular lore was that he was always dead.

[Aldonkar]

No, not so fast. I don't think it will come to that. Usha Vance might even convert. She is definitely ambitious, as ambitious as any Indian-Hindu-American. Who doesn't want to be the first first lady of color?!!!

I ask you why KD Harris adopted her absent father's religion rather than stay with the Sanaatana Dharma of her mother, who single-handedly raised her and her sister?!

I believe that Michelle Obama has that honour.

Also, Kamala Harris was raised to identify as black by her mother as the Indian community was miniscule when she was young. Presumably this included religious establishments etc. I can remember visiting LA ( Westlake Village in Ventura County) when I was relatively young in 1975 and the Latino guy that my English boss sent to the airport to pick me up could not believe that I was not Hispanic when he asked what my ethnic background was. To add confusion, I was of Indian origin, despite my English first name, Portugese surname and the fact that I was born in Africa and had never lived in India. I believe that Kash Patel has a somewhat similar background and so has the guy running for mayor of NY.

[sanjaykumar]

Re: Aisha Vance, I am sure cirisitans are urging secularism on MAGA supporters.


Latinos are interesting. From coming up to me and bantering in Spanish to hitting on my wife like flies er in Mexico.

It is the cultural assumptions. Not that I have anything remotely against them.

[Vayutuvan]

I believe that Michelle Obama has that honour.
...

Aldonkar ji,

I missed that part. She would be the first first lady from India. In any case, my point is about ambition. The very fact that she went to all kinds of elite instis etc. It is difficult to put in the hard work required if she did not have big ambitions. Only two kinds of people put in a lot of hard work who are not too ambitious; Mathemtaicians and Artists (specifically Indian classical vocalists, not the bollywood kind.)

[Vayutuvan]

I also had similar experience when we visited Puerto Rico. Many tourists had asked us for directions. One local came up to my daughter (my SHQ is a little fairer than the rest of us) and started asking something in Spanish.

When I was in the Netherlands, many people used to ask me whether I was a Curacaoan,