Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion

[uddu]

Truly speaking, no one can defend HAL or bemoan lack of orders for Tejas. HAL now has 180 confirmed Tejas Mk1A orders. Tejas Mk2 will get another 120 unit order at least. Maybe more, depending on the timeline of development and production.

Nothing to be emotional about guys. This deal may not have happened or must have irrespective of Tejas. But one thing is the absolute failure of GE in ensuring delivery of engines. Not just for the MK1A but also for the MK2. Until there is guarantee of engines, there are no fighters coming and it must have necessitated relook or speeding the process of MMRCA/Rafale/Su-57. We could say, either GE or Trump handed the best biggest beautiful deal to the French Emmanuelle. Our failure in it is the inability to get the Kaveri engine up and running. If someone should be blamed that can be on Shri Namo or IAF or HAL or GTRE for the Kaveri engine part.

[Prem Kumar]

If Modi coughs up the $20 Billion for 114 MRFA, that'll be a national disgrace. Better to order another 36 and ask the IAF to order more Tejas-Mk2 to fill the gaps

If they don't play ball, start with summary dismissals/forced-resignations

Priest King should act more like the King and less like a Priest now

[S_Madhukar]

Yes but with GE engine fiasco what option do we have in interim? I wish we had an engine ready but without Rafale Safran wont help us make one. Fact is lack of Kaveri funding has led to where we are now and I only worry what further land mines are being laid now to screw us in the future

[uddu]

IAF to order more Tejas-Mk2 to fill the gaps

If they don't play ball, start with summary dismissals/forced-resignations

Priest King should act more like the King and less like a Priest now

Everything comes and stops at one thing. Engine. What guarantee that the Americans will agree on our terms for the engine and supply us engines for MK2. The discussion and contract signing has not gone anywhere.
We need to have our own engine. One reason for this deal could be the Safran deal for the engine and that will be the one that help IAF to be independent since our own IAF, govt is still not ready to continue with the Kaveri engine effort. The current thought process I do feel is that to get the tech of modern engine in the upcoming Safran deal and then continue using the same technology/knowhow/manufacturing process for the Kaveri engine as well as much as possible. In the meanwhile live with the slow phase of engine supply by the US or the French will guarantee, engines needed even if Americans are unable to supply F-404 for MK1A as well,

[Aditya_V]

If this was the plan in the last 10 years they could have integrated M-53 engines of the M-2000 onto LCA Tejas and got the local production here with Test beds Aircraft etc.

Now, the US will not deliver F-404, F414 etc. We are now on dog leash of the French- whose media fully supported Paki lies on operation Sindoor.

Now we are just Hafta to Germany for P75I submarines, exhausting our CAPEX with Rafale- I dont there will be any money left for Local R &D after this deal, forget super Sukhoi etc.

We would have been better off working with the French to transfer Jet engine tech old M-53 engine to be included in Tejas, More Scorpenes but we have split our orders with Russia, French, German, USA and with no local benefit.

Rafale is a great aircraft but it still not a stealth aircraft and can become obsolete like the upgraded M-2000's of the IAF.

Quite Frankly , it seems that a lot Babus and Politicos have secured their children's lives in Western countries, while those who chose to stay in India and tried to build thier lives in this country are the sufferers, every babu who takes bribe says India is S**** and send thier children abroad. India is poor because of such decesions

[Aditya_V]

It is clear US can supply engines for F-35 but not GE F404's and I think lets forget about GE 414 engines, they take 10 years to supply Apache Helicopters, it is not in US interests to keep India stable.

We should have made the French transfer the M-53 engine line, integrated it with the LCA Tejas 10 years ago. We are dividing deals again for Submarines to the Germans, we could used all that Leverage to first get engines for LCA Tejas before doing this.

Now US has no real interest and will keep LCA in drip drip 1 engine per month. The Amount of funds going into 114 rafale means there will nothing left for Super Sukhoi 30 or LCA Tejas Mk2/ AMCA contracts. The Indian Tax payer is donating to the French tax payer and will get only contempt in return.

In all this every babu'd child emigrates to Western countries, those who want to invest in India's future and have thier children be in India suffer.

[Aditya_V]

What I fear this 36+114 Rafale will starve the LCA Mk1A, Mk2, AMCA Super Sukhoi upgrade, and any funds for local engine development, we may end up depending only on this 150 aircraft for our entire defense.

[rohiths]

Absolute scam and total waste of money if this happens. Could have inducted 1,000 Brahmos and 1,000 Pralay for strike and 25 regiments of Akash NG for air defence with this money and still have money to spare. Aircraft can be shot down by enemies but distributed 2,000 offensive missiles and dense iads will have massive deterrent values.

[uddu]

Even the France of tomorrow - few years down the line - will not be the France of Emmanuelle. We must have our own engine program running for sure in parallel. The faster we start on KDE plus afterburner, the better for the nation. Meanwhile need to tested on our own fighters to see how it performs. However outdated the tech is. Still we will have an engine.

[Rakesh]

The first time I am hearing about 35 (not 36) Rafales from a French news source. One was lost during Op Sindoor.

The “super contract” Rafale F4/F5 signed with India next month
https://www.avionslegendaires.net/2026/ ... -prochain/
11 January 2026

The current thirty-five Rafale F3 in endowment within the Indian Air Force will be in parallel modernized to the F4 standard, as is the case with us for the Air and Space Army and the National Navy with the F3-R standard aircraft.

[Rakesh]

The Rafale Deal: A Necessary Compromise Explained
https://thumkar.blogspot.com/2026/01/th ... omise.html
14 Jan 2026

^^^
The amount of crying on Twitter - over the ANI report - is a sight to behold.

https://x.com/vkthakur/status/2011357470401405380?s=20 ---> There is widespread consternation on account of the following:

1. Rafales manufactured in India will have only 30 per cent indigenous content.
2. The deal encompasses no additional transfer of technology.
3. The Indian Air Force (IAF) will not receive the source code for integrating indigenous weapon systems without French assistance.

I address the concerns without hype or prejudice in my Thumkar post.

[Rakesh]

Rafale deal to be inked in 2026, final assembly line in Nagpur, Indian firms to be roped in
https://theprint.in/defence/rafale-deal ... n/2826643/
14 Jan 2026

The proposed project costing about Rs 3.25 lakh crore will entail procurement of 18 aircraft in fly away condition & the rest made in India with up to 60% indigenous content.

[Rakesh]

IAF Pivoting To 114 Rafales As Final Cure For MMRCA Legacy
https://www.livefistdefence.com/iaf-piv ... ca-legacy/
13 Jan 2026

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/hukum2082/status/1895859153287234035?s=20 ---> Disclaimer: “The characters in this story are entirely fictional, and any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

"Let me tell you a story: He is at best a place holder in the larger scheme of things. The IAF as an org is ideologically aligned with inducting the Rafale. Large parts of its operational doctrine and CAPEX is aligned with the induction of this “game changer”. The elite Vajra cult spent a whopping $2.2 billion on upgrading the Mirage-2000H/TH to the I/TI standard. So much so that the Su-30MKI mid life upgrades were completely put on the back burner. These shenanigans got exposed when the Su-30MKIs were found wanting in BVR engagements against a principal adversary. The Flanker is at best a Bhishma Pitamah in the larger scheme of things.

The Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A isn’t their blue eyed boy. It is just a promising kid who got admitted on an EWS quota. The boy will be allowed to rise but not too much as it doesn’t belong to the elite clan. The leadership will hem and haw and make all the right noises but not commit wholeheartedly to the program.This is a class war where the loyal knights will sacrifice themselves to protect the crown prince from the peasants. As far as the AMCA goes, it was chai biskoot time pass until the PAF started making the right noises about inducting the J-35s.

That shook Vayu Bhawan out of its slumber and suddenly the AMCA was too late and too slow despite the org being fully aware that the CCS approval was allowed to drag for a good 3-4 years. Suddenly it was no more Chai Biskoot, 5th Gen required a quick fix solution and what could sound more politically correct and visually pleasing than the F-35. The F-35 might or might not make it but you get the drift.The IAF’s Plan B remains the Rafale and it will use “साम, दाम, भेद “ to induct it.The Tejas Mk2 attaining primacy is a nightmare which makes the cult wake up drenched in sweat. The Tejas is a compromise candidate which was inducted because the defence minister of the day understood the organisational politics and cracked the whip. The commoner “Mk2” can never be allowed to be the crown prince.That would be sacrilege of the highest order.Long live the Cult!

[Rakesh]

The amount of crying on Twitter - over the ANI report - is a sight to behold.

https://x.com/vkthakur/status/2011357470401405380?s=20 ---> There is widespread consternation on account of the following:

1. Rafales manufactured in India will have only 30 per cent indigenous content.
2. The deal encompasses no additional transfer of technology.
3. The Indian Air Force (IAF) will not receive the source code for integrating indigenous weapon systems without French assistance.

I address the concerns without hype or prejudice in my Thumkar post.

https://x.com/NarenMenon1/status/201111 ... 62805?s=20 ---> Am I supposed to believe random anonymous handles have intimate details of technology transfer in a govt-to-govt defense deal which may or may not happen? And here I was naively thinking details of critical defense deals are confidential state secrets.

https://x.com/NarenMenon1/status/201113 ... 17135?s=20 ---> Outrage is a drug for some and clearly the addiction gives some a high. I find all this rants to be amusing.

[Rakesh]

Steal from Kaveri Amma and give to Tara Amma

https://x.com/i/status/2011107642488569911
@TheLegateIN

Just In: Atleast 50% of 114 addl Rafales set to be ordered by IAF for $36 billion to be equipped with TARAMMAA 6th generation AESA radar. Same radars will be fitted to French Rafale F5s in 2030.

I would be wise to NOT believe a single word of what this account publishes.

[Rakesh]

BINGO!

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/2011386 ... 67893?s=20 ---> Go ahead & buy a gazillion Rafales to fix squadron numbers, P-75I for sub shortfall, et al. But there must be two things:

1) Commit at least 10% of that cost for R&D projects in India. If you can splurge $36 billion, you can spare $3.6 billion more for R&D. Else just resign from your posts.

2) Once the indigenous projects meet most of the SQRs, it should be ordered en masse. Not additional orders for the now indigenized imported product nor some fancy Indian named screwdriver project.

[Hriday]

Steal from Kaveri Amma and give to Tara Amma

https://x.com/i/status/2011107642488569911
@TheLegateIN

Just In: Atleast 50% of 114 addl Rafales set to be ordered by IAF for $36 billion to be equipped with TARAMMAA 6th generation AESA radar. Same radars will be fitted to French Rafale F5s in 2030.

I would be wise to NOT believe a single word of what this account publishes.

Yes, this very popular military commentator @TheLegateIN with 216K followers never gives any sources. I wonder if it is just arrogance or to cover up their agenda or to hide incompetence.
Also just recently they commented that;
1.
Mica-NG is available, so no need to worry about integration of Astra missile variants !!
2.
State of the art Stryker coming to Indian army, despite the fact that it miserably failed in Indian trials.
3.
India captured Chinese Aesa seekers which will help India to develop Aesa seekers!! India already developed Aesa seekers before Operation Sindhoor.
To be fair they forward many useful military information without other off topic posts.

[uddu]

Steal from Kaveri Amma and give to Tara Amma

https://x.com/i/status/2011107642488569911
@TheLegateIN

Just In: Atleast 50% of 114 addl Rafales set to be ordered by IAF for $36 billion to be equipped with TARAMMAA 6th generation AESA radar. Same radars will be fitted to French Rafale F5s in 2030.

I would be wise to NOT believe a single word of what this account publishes.

If certain accounts are not credible, Admins can remove those news.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Defencecore/status/201138 ... 58632?s=20 ---> IAF is not viewing Rafale as a Su-57 alternative, for the IAF, both are parallel programs. so, apart from acquiring 114 Rafales, IAF is also looking at 2–3 squadrons of Su-57 to plug the stealth Aircraft gap until AMCA’s 1st sqdn becomes operational. The primary purpose of acquiring Rafales is to address the depleting fighter squadron strength. The existing infrastructure developed around Rafale will help in quick operationalisation, potentially saving 3-4 years.

If this goes through, the IAF fighter fleet will look something like:

• Rafale - 150
• Tejas MK1A - 180
• Su-57 - 36 to 54 (NC)

Another logistical nightmare in the making, with billions spent?

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/2011403329520484549?s=20 ---> I think we all are agreeing on some points:

1) India needs Rafales in numbers, but we must secure a better deal
2) Expedite Sukhoi upgrade
3) Significantly enhance funding for domestic programs
4) HAL must expedite the Tejas deliveries
5) Whole nation approach on jet engines

[Rakesh]

Rafale F5 : the details of the future French fighter aircraft
https://lessentieldeleco.fr/5303-rafale ... -francais/
13 Jan 2026

The Rafale F5, a new version of the French fighter, promises a major breakthrough by 2035. Here are the main innovations.

The Rafale is about to take a step forward. By 2030, the French army is waiting for the arrival of the F5 standard, presented as a technological rupture. Sébastien Lecornu, Minister of the Armed Forces in 2025, spoke of a revolution comparable to the passage of the Mirage 2000-N in the first Rafale. The goal is clear: to stay one step ahead in the sky.

Extended timetable and ambitions for the French Air Force

The first orders were placed before October 2024, with an envelope of 318 million euros dedicated to the lifting of risks on key technologies. The industrial launch is scheduled for September 2025. The finance bill for 2026 includes 1.5 billion euros for the developments of the F4 and F5 standards. The French target climbs to 285 Rafale by 2035, against 225 previously. The entry into service of the F5 is expected in two stages: initial operational capability in 2033, full capacity in 2035. A sixth production tranche is to be notified in 2029, with 45 aircraft, including 12 for the Navy. Production will start in 2026, for a first delivery in 2033.

The Rafale becomes a node of connected combat

The heart of transformation is played out in connectivity. The Rafale F5 will be the first French “second-generation connected” fighter, capable of exchanging in real time with other sensors or effectors, on the ground, in flight or in orbit. The interoperability covered includes the British, Japanese and Italian GCAP programmes, but also the Gripen and F-35. The ambition is to ensure a transition to the future SCAF. Onboard artificial intelligence, developed by Dassault and Thales, will be used to merge multi-sensor data, manage alarms and drive drones. It must transform the Rafale into a digital co-pilot, without ousting the human pilot. Another pillar of the F5 standard: the arrival of a stealth combat drone, derived from the nEUROn demonstrator, the size of a Mirage 2000 and equipped with the M88 engine. It will fly in front of the Rafale, guided from the cockpit, with an AI on board for reconnaissance and combat. First flight targeted before 2033.

Next generation sensors and mass processing

On the sensor side, the RBE2 XG radar will exploit gallium nitride to offer an increased detection range of 50 to 70%, a resolution of 70%, 70 %and better interference resistance. It will also allow electronic attacks in the X, Ku and K bands, restoring the Rafale to lost SEAD/DEAD capabilities with the end of the AS-37 MARTEL missile. The SPECTRA electronic warfare system will move to all-digital detection, with machine learning and optimized information reproduction with AI. Computers will have to digest up to 1 terabyte of data per second. The optronic front-end sector (OSF), in its “Silent Killer” version, will carry beyond 100 km, enough to engage a target to the Mica-NG missile without activating the radar, and capable of tracking stealth aircraft.

A more powerful and warmer M88 T-REX engine

The M88 engine will also evolve. The T-REX, in development at Safran since June 2025, will aim for a 9-ton thrust with post-combustion (+20%). Work focuses on a redesigned low-pressure compressor, a high-pressure superalloy turbine, next-generation cooling and an optimized aerodynamic nozzle. Safran tests these elements in Saclay, with a thermal target of 2100 Kelvin. A production decision is expected at the end of 2025. The range will be enhanced by two compliant tanks of 1150 litres each (CFT), positioned above the rear fuselage. They would increase fuel capacity to 6 tonnes without pendulum outline, against 4.7 tonnes currently, with minimal impact on radar signature. The 2000s tests on the B01 prototype are re-exploited, and a production decision is also expected by the end of 2025.

A new generation of very long-range missiles

Armament is entering a new era. The ASN4G missile will succeed ASMPA: a hypersonic nuclear missile, Mach 6 to 7, with a scramjet and capable of complex maneuvers to break through advanced defenses. Range beyond 1000 km, 300 kiloton TNA nuclear warhead, scheduled to be put into service for 2035. For the SEAD/DEAD missions, the RJ10, the anti-radar version of the Smart Cruiser, will aim for speeds between Mach 3 and Mach 5 by 2035. The AASF programme has 41.9 million euros between 2024 and 2027. The Rafale F5 will be able to carry up to 18 Smart Cruiser missiles into three hexalauncher nacelles, for swarm strikes. The AASM XLR, a very long-range guided bomb (150 km+), will benefit from the connectivity of the F5 for adaptive in-flight guidance.

India is the key customer of the Rafale

In export, India accelerates. In September 2025, New Delhi recommended the purchase of 114 Rafale F4 for 18.9 billion euros, with 60% local production in Nagpur. At the end of November, the Ministry of the Armed Forces confirms Indian interest in 24 Rafale F5, with a signature expected in January 2026. Eventually, with the 36 Rafales already delivered, the 26 Rafale Marine ordered in April 2025 and these new orders, India could become the world’s leading user of the Rafale outside France with 176 aircraft.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AshishMalviyaIF/status/20 ... 74541?s=20 ---> 36 Rafales bought, 26 Rafales M ordered. Tejas delayed. US blocked engines. Su-57 geopolitically tough. IAF at 29–31 squadrons. 114 Rafales are now an urgent necessity, not a luxury. The real failure? We didn’t pre-empt, plan, or phase our force structure on time. But Rafale alone won’t save us. 5th gen, 6th gen & desi engines must run in parallel. More CAPEX for IAF, More private sector. Disrupt HAL monopoly.

[Jay]

If this goes through, the IAF fighter fleet will look something like:

• Rafale - 150
• Tejas MK1A - 180
• Su-57 - 36 to 54 (NC)

Another logistical nightmare in the making, with billions spent?

And it gets even better...After all that spend we will not end up with

• No desi engine

• No control over source codes

• No shared IP

• Beholden to not one, not two, but three power players

• Back where we are now in 2050 for the 100th republic day parade celebrations..

This is beyond depressing

[drnayar]

https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/indi ... vereignty/

India’s USD 36 Billion Rafale Expansion Faces Strategic Roadblock as France Refuses Source Code Transfer, Triggering Sovereignty Concerns

[uddu]

https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/indi ... vereignty/

India’s USD 36 Billion Rafale Expansion Faces Strategic Roadblock as France Refuses Source Code Transfer, Triggering Sovereignty Concerns

Without MKIzation there is no worth in buying these many planes. Better is to go for Su-57 if the Russians are ready for it along with ensuring speedy trials of Kaveri engine in Russia along with some help to increase the thrust to meet the requirement for MK1A be it Brahmos Aerospace Afterburner. Hope the political dispensation says no to such a one sided deal and tell them that without the deal being beneficial to us in real usage terms and upgrades, its not taking off.

[Cain Marko]

If this was the plan in the last 10 years they could have integrated M-53 engines of the M-2000 onto LCA Tejas and got the local production here with Test beds Aircraft etc.

Now, the US will not deliver F-404, F414 etc. We are now on dog leash of the French- whose media fully supported Paki lies on operation Sindoor.

Now we are just Hafta to Germany for P75I submarines, exhausting our CAPEX with Rafale- I dont there will be any money left for Local R &D after this deal, forget super Sukhoi etc.

We would have been better off working with the French to transfer Jet engine tech old M-53 engine to be included in Tejas, More Scorpenes but we have split our orders with Russia, French, German, USA and with no local benefit.

Rafale is a great aircraft but it still not a stealth aircraft and can become obsolete like the upgraded M-2000's of the IAF.

Quite Frankly , it seems that a lot Babus and Politicos have secured their children's lives in Western countries, while those who chose to stay in India and tried to build thier lives in this country are the sufferers, every babu who takes bribe says India is S**** and send thier children abroad. India is poor because of such decesions

Al 31 would've served a LOT better than those m53s. Hal was already close to indigenous al31 production and it uses then for the mki. Another missed opportunity.

I was screaming all over the place for either a al31 based MK2 or a kaveri based twin engined Tejas 4000..

But there are too many rascals in top echelons of miltech complex to ever have let it happen.

[Manish_Sharma]

https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/indi ... vereignty/

India’s USD 36 Billion Rafale Expansion Faces Strategic Roadblock as France Refuses Source Code Transfer, Triggering Sovereignty Concerns

Without MKIzation there is no worth in buying these many planes. Better is to go for Su-57 if the Russians are ready for it along with ensuring speedy trials of Kaveri engine in Russia along with some help to increase the thrust to meet the requirement for MK1A be it Brahmos Aerospace Afterburner. Hope the political dispensation says no to such a one sided deal and tell them that without the deal being beneficial to us in real usage terms and upgrades, its not taking off.

even with source code Rafale is obsolete:
https://x.com/Aryan_warlord/status/2011 ... 35779?s=20

Some more details on the #India #France #Rafale agreement from #French media reports .
1) 35 #Indian #Rafale to be upgraded from F3R standard to F4 standard (Yes, means one was lost) .
2) 90 F4 #Rafale to be #MakeInIndia .
3) 24 F5 #Rafale to be Made in #France .
4) Future upgrade of the 90 F4 jets to F5 under discussions.
MOU likely to be signed during visit of #EmmanuelMacron to #Delhi in February .
Some more details on the #India #France #Rafale agreement from #French media reports .
1) 35 #Indian #Rafale to be upgraded from F3R standard to F4 standard (Yes, means one was lost) .
2) 90 F4 #Rafale to be #MakeInIndia .
3) 24 F5 #Rafale to be Made in #France .
4) Future upgrade of the 90 F4 jets to F5 under discussions.
MOU likely to be signed during visit of #EmmanuelMacron to #Delhi in February .

french link:
https://www.avionslegendaires.net/2026/ ... -prochain/
translation:

Five weeks ago, we revealed that the Indians were turning to the most advanced version of the French fighter jet. Today, we are able to announce that (in all likelihood) the contract will be signed in mid-February, in… five weeks. During Emmanuel Macron's visit to India, the Indians and French will officially finalize the largest order ever placed with Dassault Aviation for the Rafale, with 114 firm orders. A portion will be manufactured locally, as part of the Make in India program.

As we previously explained, the Franco-Indian agreement provides for the delivery, in the short and medium term, of a batch of ninety new Rafale F4 aircraft, built between our two countries.The thirty-five current Rafale F3s in service with the Indian Air Force will be simultaneously upgraded to the F4 standard, as is the case in France for the Air and Space Force and the French Navy with their F3-R standard aircraft. This is what could be described as phase one of the contract. Phase two, which extends over the medium and long term, involves a batch of twenty-four Rafale F5s, all of which will be produced in France by Dassault Aviation.

It seems that the only remaining sticking point between the parties to the contract concerns the possibility of India independently upgrading its newly delivered Rafale F4s to the F5 standard. It is currently unknown whether the former Rafale F3s, which will be upgraded to F4 standard, can also be transformed into F5s. At this stage, it's still a bit unclear.

In mid-February, the President of the Republic, Mr. Emmanuel Macron, will travel to New Delhi at the invitation of the Indian Prime Minister, Mr. Narendra Modi, for the AI ​​Impact Summit. This summit is scheduled to take place from Monday, February 16 to Friday, February 20, 2026, inclusive. It is known that Messrs. Macron and Modi want France and India to exert joint influence in the field of artificial intelligence.
It is during this AI summit that the Rafale contract will be signed by the two countries for an amount not yet disclosed, but which alone should be enough to boost our GDP by a few tenths of a percentage point.

This upcoming signing should silence those who take malicious pleasure in disparaging France and its fighter jet. The Indian Air Force pilots have experienced it firsthand, and they want more!

by 2035 rafale with weapons hanging outside will be completely outdated

better to go for 272+ Su-57, so later they can replace Su 30mki in long term

[Cain Marko]

https://x.com/hukum2082/status/1895859153287234035?s=20 ---> Disclaimer: “The characters in this story are entirely fictional, and any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

"Let me tell you a story: He is at best a place holder in the larger scheme of things. The IAF as an org is ideologically aligned with inducting the Rafale. Large parts of its operational doctrine and CAPEX is aligned with the induction of this “game changer”. The elite Vajra cult spent a whopping $2.2 billion on upgrading the Mirage-2000H/TH to the I/TI standard. So much so that the Su-30MKI mid life upgrades were completely put on the back burner. These shenanigans got exposed when the Su-30MKIs were found wanting in BVR engagements against a principal adversary. The Flanker is at best a Bhishma Pitamah in the larger scheme of things.

The Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A isn’t their blue eyed boy. It is just a promising kid who got admitted on an EWS quota. The boy will be allowed to rise but not too much as it doesn’t belong to the elite clan. The leadership will hem and haw and make all the right noises but not commit wholeheartedly to the program.This is a class war where the loyal knights will sacrifice themselves to protect the crown prince from the peasants. As far as the AMCA goes, it was chai biskoot time pass until the PAF started making the right noises about inducting the J-35s.

That shook Vayu Bhawan out of its slumber and suddenly the AMCA was too late and too slow despite the org being fully aware that the CCS approval was allowed to drag for a good 3-4 years. Suddenly it was no more Chai Biskoot, 5th Gen required a quick fix solution and what could sound more politically correct and visually pleasing than the F-35. The F-35 might or might not make it but you get the drift.The IAF’s Plan B remains the Rafale and it will use “साम, दाम, भेद “ to induct it.The Tejas Mk2 attaining primacy is a nightmare which makes the cult wake up drenched in sweat. The Tejas is a compromise candidate which was inducted because the defence minister of the day understood the organisational politics and cracked the whip. The commoner “Mk2” can never be allowed to be the crown prince.That would be sacrilege of the highest order.Long live the Cult!

Not saying that the iaf doesn't have a French fetish BUT How can the iaf depend on a bird which is unreliable thanks to it's engines. This Twitter fellow should be asking why the miltech complex insisted upon getting engines which they well knew were sanctionable. And that despite the pok2 debacle. The decision-makers here ought to raked over coals and their feet held over fire. Whether they be designers, users or babus.

Now there's literally zero choice but to go for the French filly. India can't buy the su57 without incurring the wrath of the mighty US.

Net result of a harami procurement system is that the tax payer lands up paying thru the nose and gets hooked into an insanely expensive ecosystem for what is at best a gen 4.5 bird that's already looking a little long in the tooth (seems like j10 with pl15 has it's number based on that 35 count you mentioned earlier). Shudder to think what j20 or j35 (or whatever be design they mass produce next) with long range aams will do to this pretty bird.

[Cain Marko]

by 2035 rafale with weapons hanging outside will be completely outdated

100%

better to go for 272+ Su-57, so later they can replace Su 30mki in long term

Not possible. India will invite the wrath of the US. and no, it can't afford to antagonize them.

[Tanaji]

The report about the M2K/Rafale cabal in IAF probably has more than a kernel of truth in it. These rumours have been persistent over the years and they have flown under the radar because the French planes are good and under the generic term of “fighter pilot mafia”.

This is solely down to the political class who fail to call them out because of selfish reasons.

[Kartik]

Truly speaking, no one can defend HAL or bemoan lack of orders for Tejas. HAL now has 180 confirmed Tejas Mk1A orders. Tejas Mk2 will get another 120 unit order at least. Maybe more, depending on the timeline of development and production.

Nothing to be emotional about guys. This deal may not have happened or must have irrespective of Tejas. But one thing is the absolute failure of GE in ensuring delivery of engines. Not just for the MK1A but also for the MK2. Until there is guarantee of engines, there are no fighters coming and it must have necessitated relook or speeding the process of MMRCA/Rafale/Su-57. We could say, either GE or Trump handed the best biggest beautiful deal to the French Emmanuelle. Our failure in it is the inability to get the Kaveri engine up and running. If someone should be blamed that can be on Shri Namo or IAF or HAL or GTRE for the Kaveri engine part.

Yes GE Aerospace screwed up big time. But guess what? Even if they had delivered those engines on time, HAL clearly wasn't going to be able to deliver any fighters to the IAF. They were still working on the weapons integration all the time that the excuse in the public was that the engine delays alone were the reason for no deliveries of Mk1As.

The Astra Mk1 trial in May that wasn't considered a success meant software fixes and more trials. So whether or not GE screwed up, HAL has screwed it up even more. They had 2 years to complete Astra and ASRAAM integration plus whatever strike weapons have been mandated. As yet, it's not been finished since HAL has 5 F-404 engines but hasn't delivered any Mk1A to the IAF.

GE is not under any contract for F-414 engines, so not sure what you mean by that.

[uddu]

Nothing to be emotional about guys. This deal may not have happened or must have irrespective of Tejas. But one thing is the absolute failure of GE in ensuring delivery of engines. Not just for the MK1A but also for the MK2. Until there is guarantee of engines, there are no fighters coming and it must have necessitated relook or speeding the process of MMRCA/Rafale/Su-57. We could say, either GE or Trump handed the best biggest beautiful deal to the French Emmanuelle. Our failure in it is the inability to get the Kaveri engine up and running. If someone should be blamed that can be on Shri Namo or IAF or HAL or GTRE for the Kaveri engine part.

Yes GE Aerospace screwed up big time. But guess what? Even if they had delivered those engines on time, HAL clearly wasn't going to be able to deliver any fighters to the IAF. They were still working on the weapons integration all the time that the excuse in the public was that the engine delays alone were the reason for no deliveries of Mk1As.

The Astra Mk1 trial in May that wasn't considered a success meant software fixes and more trials. So whether or not GE screwed up, HAL has screwed it up even more. They had 2 years to complete Astra and ASRAAM integration plus whatever strike weapons have been mandated. As yet, it's not been finished since HAL has 5 F-404 engines but hasn't delivered any Mk1A to the IAF.

GE is not under any contract for F-414 engines, so not sure what you mean by that.

What you said is true too and known. The delay in missile firing happened because of the initial firing failed. So they have to figure out the reasons and finally fix it, which took time. Second aspect is that its said that due to removal of engines from the test platforms to run test on the newly manufactured aircraft did compromise the testing schedule. This must still be the case. Now considering that 4 engines delivered, how many aircraft will be flying by now? Situation is still engine issue, which is the major issue.

Now that 4 aircrafts with HAL can be taken over by the IAF anyday. Since the missile testing seems to be done, some new capability is being integrated. Could be the Mum-T or something which we don't know. The current extension is by March those aircraft with engines will be delivered. That will be 4 to 5 based on engines.

[bala]

About 80% of Rafale jets for IAF likely to be manufactured in India

About 80 per cent of the 114 Rafale fighter aircraft proposed to be acquired for the Indian Air Force are planned to be manufactured in India with parts of the production ecosystem likely to shift from France. The sources said that discussions with the French side were focused on maximising local content in the deal, including plans to establish a maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facility in India to improve aircraft availability and serviceability.The two sides are also negotiating the overall cost of the project, with the French price offer factoring in an annual inflation assumption of about four per cent. They also added that there is a possibility that Dassault Aviation could use an Indian partner for future export orders. India could also be positioned as a regional MRO hub for countries operating Rafale and other Dassault aircraft.

The Rafale has emerged as the most suitable fighter to meet IAF requirements under current conditions, citing serviceability levels of around 90 per cent, higher than those of comparable aircraft, including the US-made F-35.

link

[drnayar]

So gurus can enlighten me., because the F4 and F5 versions of the Rafales are still 4+ and 4++ generations. By 2035/40 some version of European Tempest and Dassaults own 5th generation will make its appearance. If India did not fully grow its own Tejas mk 2 ecosystem and AMCA being delayed, wont there be another "capability gap" [ vs Chinese or whatever] and then necessitating a 5th gen fighter buy from the Europeans ? As far as i know the French are still playing cute with the source codes and not letting India MKI the Rafale !!

A parallel capability gap in submarines also exist if the Germans do not play ball with tech transfers., despite signing up

[Cain Marko]

So gurus can enlighten me., because the F4 and F5 versions of the Rafales are still 4+ and 4++ generations. By 2035/40 some version of European Tempest and Dassaults own 5th generation will make its appearance. If India did not fully grow its own Tejas mk 2 ecosystem and AMCA being delayed, wont there be another "capability gap" [ vs Chinese or whatever] and then necessitating a 5th gen fighter buy from the Europeans ? As far as i know the French are still playing cute with the source codes and not letting India MKI the Rafale !!

A parallel capability gap in submarines also exist if the Germans do not play ball with tech transfers., despite signing up

No guru here but it doesn't take one to see the answer is YES to all. in 10 years they'll be hankering for 6gen French filly. Even Bridget Bardot didn't stay hot forever. There'll be a new fily in town soon.

[stephen]

All these rush of information with suggested timeline of signing the deal for the suggested 114 Rafale seems to perfectly line up with the upcoming first flight of the Tejas MkII !!!. The DRDO chief had said in the interview that the MkII will fly out this year. All the hurry to swamp the headlines with information on the rafale deal seems like a very strategic play to make the MkII irrelevant in the publics eyes as well as set the field to sign up the deal in the shortest possible time, before the MkII come into the picture and make people question the relevance of the rafale deal.
I am sure it will be years before any deal is signed but trying to make it sound like it is imminent will cast doubt in the minds of the people that the Tejas MkII is no longer relevant as we can easily make do with the Rafale. For a change I am hoping for our babus to make sure that they make the relevant files go through the whole tendering process.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/20 ... 79809?s=20 ---> India adds Non-negotiables to #Rafale deal which includes integration of Indian weapons, missiles and ammunition on all 114 jets; the plane maker will provide secure data links to allow digital integration of the jets with Indian radars and sensors sending imagery to ground-based controllers. IC content will be 60%.

[A_Gupta]

Is India backing away from this commitment?
https://www.reuters.com/world/india/ind ... 025-10-17/#

NEW DELHI, Oct 17 (Reuters) - India expects to spend about 654 billion rupees ($7.44 billion) to buy engines for fighter aircraft that are under development until 2035, according to estimates shared on Friday by a defence official who leads the efforts to build a home-grown engine.
The country will require about 1,100 engines for a variety of fighter jet programmes that are progressing through various stages, said S. V. Ramana Murthy, director of India's Gas Turbine Research Establishment, a state-run defence laboratory.

—-
That is 65,400 crores.

[uddu]

https://x.com/i/status/2012082052137681405

@_TheTathya
India Draws the Red Lines: Rafale Deal on Our Terms

> India has laid down non-negotiable conditions for Dassault in the ₹3.25 lakh crore Rafale deal (114 jets).
> Two core red lines: Indian weapons integration and full data-link connectivity.
> Every aircraft must carry Indian missiles, bombs & ammo... Astra, Rudram & more.
> No more legacy French-only loadouts.
> Full data-link integration with IAF assets: fighters, AEW&C, drones & ground stations.
> Network-centric warfare is now mandatory, not optional.
> All jets to be upgraded to F4/F5 standards with AESA radar & AI-assisted systems.
> Some manufacturing ToT included... indigenous content expected to hit 55–60%.
> MoD close to finalizing the deal.

But the real question is deeper:

Will France allow independent Indian weapon integration via open APIs... without Dassault’s involvement every time?
Will they permit integration of BNET and future indigenous data links?

Because real sovereignty isn’t about buying jets... It’s about controlling what goes on them.

It’s about owning the code, not just the cockpit.

> If these two are secured… This won’t just be a Rafale deal.
> It will be a doctrine shift.

Follow
@_TheTathya
for more such updates.