Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

[pravula]

There could be 20 to 25 engines with the IAF.

Again, Tejas uses a unique version of F404, called F404-IN20. It’s not the same as the other 4000+ engines. Most of them do not even have FADEC afaik.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 392957.ece
The GE had delivered 65 F404-IN20 engines for the Tejas LCA from 2008 to 2016.

I lost you there. What does a delivery of 65 units have to do with 4000+ engines available to buy per OP?

[uddu]

There could be 20 to 25 engines with the IAF.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 392957.ece
The GE had delivered 65 F404-IN20 engines for the Tejas LCA from 2008 to 2016.

I lost you there. What does a delivery of 65 units have to do with 4000+ engines available to buy per OP?

Not that. There are available engines with us that could be used if things are that dire.

This news will be much more related to the point you raised. Tejas did fly with another variant F404-F2J3. Probably a precursor to F404-IN20.
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... -10378729/
Also In 2008, the Kaveri project was officially delinked with the Tejas; General Electric’s F404-F2J3 engine was procured as an interim solution.

[uddu]

Big- ये हुआ तो इतिहास बनेगा! Tejas + Kaveri Engine integration

The Gas Turbine Research Establishment is preparing the roadmap for a high-thrust variant of the Kaveri Derivative Engine that could emerge as a future indigenous replacement for the F404-GE-IN20 currently powering the Tejas Mk1A. Once the ongoing Kaveri Derivative Engine certification programme is completed, GTRE plans to initiate work on a new uprated core designed to deliver 55 kN of dry thrust, provided the required funding is sanctioned.

[pravula]

I lost you there. What does a delivery of 65 units have to do with 4000+ engines available to buy per OP?

Not that. There are available engines with us that could be used if things are that dire.

This news will be much more related to the point you raised. Tejas did fly with another variant F404-F2J3. Probably a precursor to F404-IN20.
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... -10378729/
Also In 2008, the Kaveri project was officially delinked with the Tejas; General Electric’s F404-F2J3 engine was procured as an interim solution.

Per GE, those engines were only used for TD purposes?

https://www.geaerospace.com/news/press- ... rst-flight

[uddu]

Per GE, those engines were only used for TD purposes?

https://www.geaerospace.com/news/press- ... rst-flight

Indeed its has higher thrust and also many other features. over the other F404 variants
https://www.geaerospace.com/military-de ... gines/f404

If situation is that dire, we could use the current engines with the IAF until things stabilize. Also if the Kaveri news is correct, then things are going in the right direction in the medium to long term solution. Makes Atmanirbharta in engines the one and only roadblock that need resolution, funding and whatnot.
The IAF must not shift goalposts once the DRDO Safran deal for engines are signed. This must be the engine/upgraded variant for future Sixth Gen fighters as well. We have expertise in every other area. Iterative progress need to be adopted by IAF. The obsession with relying on everyone else will again push back all the progress that we achieved in every other area. Hope IAF don't end up wasting next so many years tyring to figure out who should be courted to be our Sixth Gen Fighter partner. Just go with improving on AMCA tech.

One more aspect is the French cannot be trusted to stick to the engine development. They have a tendancy to withdraw half way through the project and pursue their own way out once they are comfortable with the tech after certain stage. This has happened with their Tank development with Germany and also with their Frigate partnership with the Italians. May happen with us as well. Hope we don't end up holding up an engine that's certain percentage complete and no way to completion, while not having a parallel program of engines of our own.

[pravula]

Per GE, those engines were only used for TD purposes?

https://www.geaerospace.com/news/press- ... rst-flight

Indeed its has higher thrust and also many other features. over the other F404 variants
https://www.geaerospace.com/military-de ... gines/f404

If situation is that dire, we could use the current engines with the IAF until things stabilize. Also if the Kaveri news is correct, then things are going in the right direction in the medium to long term solution. Makes Atmanirbharta in engines the one and only roadblock that need resolution, funding and whatnot.
The IAF must not shift goalposts once the DRDO Safran deal for engines are signed. This must be the engine/upgraded variant for future Sixth Gen fighters as well. We have expertise in every other area. Iterative progress need to be adopted by IAF. The obsession with relying on everyone else will again push back all the progress that we achieved in every other area. Hope IAF don't end up wasting next so many years tyring to figure out who should be courted to be our Sixth Gen Fighter partner. Just go with improving on AMCA tech.

Dude, if the situation is dire, IAF will just Import Aircraft Forcibly. Infact thats probably the plan. Sabotage Tejas to Import Aircraft From France/Russia/USA/China/Pakistan/Sweden/Korea/Bangladesh

[uddu]

https://x.com/hvtiaf_bharat/status/2014930849008115881
@hvtiaf_bharat
For the followers of India's Tejas, I must state with absolute certainty that Mk1A is a great aircraft with top-of-the-line capabilities today. Unanticipated delays are there but Mk1A deserves fullest backing and love from its followers. Thanks as we must keep working undeterred.

[Bharadwaj]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw87BZ-eXwQ

India TV report on astra. The scientist interviewed says Tejas acquired target at 140km and engaged at 110km during trials last year. So this should rest the astra not integrated story once and for all.Edit: Another scientist also says the astra mk1 range is being increased to 160km. I am guessing this will be tested on mk1a and the induction debate will hopefully end once and for all. I am guessing the issue is that longer ranges were promised over the tejas mk1/astra mk1 combo and the mk1a has to deliver this. This is purely speculation on my part based on the above interview. Let us wait and watch-exciting times for our air power development.

[uddu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw87BZ-eXwQ

India TV report on astra. The scientist interviewed says Tejas acquired target at 140km and engaged at 110km during trials last year. So this should rest the astra not integrated story once and for all.Edit: Another scientist also says the astra mk1 range is being increased to 160km. I am guessing this will be tested on mk1a and the induction debate will hopefully end once and for all. I am guessing the issue is that longer ranges were promised over the tejas mk1/astra mk1 combo and the mk1a has to deliver this. This is purely speculation on my part based on the above interview. Let us wait and watch-exciting times for our air power development.

He says during Operation Sindoor, Astra destroyed the threat coming from Pakistan. Astra will be part of Sudarshan Chakra. More than 50 trials done from Su-30MKI+LCA.

[Aditya_V]

Interesting there were reports of Fighter aircraft shooting down incoming missiles on 10 May 25 morning near Sringar, After series missiles were later recovered from Wular lake.
I the incoming cruise missiles were engaged by Tejas with AAMs, possibly Astra

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/2014648 ... 84817?s=20 ---> The GE engine delivery squeeze is real. But if after 10 months of 1st engine delivery and a total of 6 production engines in hand, Tejas Mk1A hasn’t been certified/delivered and if Mk2 roll out has been delayed by an year even after accounting for delayed fund release naturally HAL’s competence will be called into question.

[uddu]

https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/2014648 ... 84817?s=20 ---> The GE engine delivery squeeze is real. But if after 10 months of 1st engine delivery and a total of 6 production engines in hand, Tejas Mk1A hasn’t been certified/delivered and if Mk2 roll out has been delayed by an year even after accounting for delayed fund release naturally HAL’s competence will be called into question.

Rakeshji, Please have little bit more patience. The Astra is now fully integrated. Few more things that IAF wanted is going on. Let that be completed and the 5 planes will be delivered right away. What they are doing is to ensure the IAF requirements are met. When it happens, it will be 5 or 6 planes together handed over. These are already capable than MK1 and can be deployed if need be without those extra features that are getting integrated into the MK1A. So let's show some more patience for few more months as the planes are already manufactured. 12 of them are ready. HAL can be blamed for many things but not manufacturing. The quality is good, the timing of manufacturing is good.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/2014648 ... 84817?s=20 ---> The GE engine delivery squeeze is real. But if after 10 months of 1st engine delivery and a total of 6 production engines in hand, Tejas Mk1A hasn’t been certified/delivered and if Mk2 roll out has been delayed by an year even after accounting for delayed fund release naturally HAL’s competence will be called into question.

Rakeshji, Please have little bit more patience. The Astra is now fully integrated. Few more things that IAF wanted is going on. Let that be completed and the 5 planes will be delivered right away. What they are doing is to ensure the IAF requirements are met. When it happens, it will be 5 or 6 planes together handed over. These are already capable than MK1 and can be deployed if need be without those extra features that are getting integrated into the MK1A. So let's show some more patience for few more months as the planes are already manufactured. 12 of them are ready. HAL can be blamed for many things but not manufacturing. The quality is good, the timing of manufacturing is good.

Sirjee, that is not my tweet I only posted it.

[uddu]

Rakeshji, Please have little bit more patience. The Astra is now fully integrated. Few more things that IAF wanted is going on. Let that be completed and the 5 planes will be delivered right away. What they are doing is to ensure the IAF requirements are met. When it happens, it will be 5 or 6 planes together handed over. These are already capable than MK1 and can be deployed if need be without those extra features that are getting integrated into the MK1A. So let's show some more patience for few more months as the planes are already manufactured. 12 of them are ready. HAL can be blamed for many things but not manufacturing. The quality is good, the timing of manufacturing is good.

Sirjee, that is not my tweet I only posted it.

Understood. We could avoid such messages for some time being. Also some reports are suggesting that it may be little bit more than March. Let's wait and see, how it goes.

[Rakesh]

Understood. We could avoid such messages for some time being. Also some reports are suggesting that it may be little bit more than March. Let's wait and see, how it goes.

Avoiding such messages will make us no better than Pakistan, who censors all the bad news.

Criticism is not equal to being anti-Atmanirbhar Bharat. If the GOI is preaching the "Atmanirbhar Bharat" slogan to the nation, then it is imperative upon the Govt to enforce that policy. Criticism should bring to light to the issues that HAL is facing and those issues should be addressed/resolved. Otherwise we will perpetually import. If you want to stop the import of 114 Rafales, then HAL has to get its house in order.

We cannot have HAL take its own sweet time to deliver Tejas Mk1A and then complain when 114 Rafales are purchased.