Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft: News & Discussion - 30 August 2019

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 02 Sep 2025 11:45

https://x.com/shreedharsingh9/status/19 ... 9862393327
@shreedharsingh9
Alpha Tokol aka Adani got 65 marks against a minimum of 70 marks.
Adani aka Alpha Tokol failed ADA vendor evaluation for aircraft sub-structure manufacturing.
Then how can they bid for AMca??

I am more worried about the obsession to let Private players making AMCA end up like Shachi class ship story.
AMCA assembly should be with HAL with the private players supplying components and parts. If at any stage a follow on order happens, it must be opened to private players to form consortium and compete with HAL. There should be set experience of atleast half a decade to enter into any aircraft assembly projects.

bkswarti · Post by **bkswarti** » 02 Sep 2025 21:23

If Adani wins this then god help us all. Adani has no experience doing any R&D. At most they put on white labels on Israeli missiles. They will create a very sub par aircraft copying whatever they can get their hands on and cutting corners. Then Adani’s friends in govt will make it illegal/unpatriotic to speak negatively about the aircraft and where the crores of budget went.

Give it to HAL. It will be 5 years late but atleast it will be a good aircraft.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 02 Sep 2025 23:37

How did Alpha Tocol end up manufacturing the rear-fuselage of Tejas, if they are this bad?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Sep 2025 16:17

Next-gen fighter jet war heats up, protests reach design body
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 815564.cms
11 Sept 2025

https://x.com/manupubby/status/1966001032628166876 ---> Next-gen fighter jet war heats up, protests reach design body. HAL writes to ADA, says points-based system for AMCA selection puts it at a disadvantage. Submission date for contestants moved to September 30.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 11 Sep 2025 16:19

https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1966034547654484111 ---> AMCA Prototype Race Heats Up!

HAL flags "unfair" financial terms in ADA's EOI for AMCA prototypes.

EOI invites Indian firms to build 5 prototypes of AMCA.

Private firms say HAL has a government-backed infrastructure advantage.

To level the field, ADA will provide key infra for prototype manufacturing.

EOI aims to prevent monopoly, promote private sector entry in fighter jet production.

HAL may need a private partner/joint venture to qualify for the bid.

Submission deadline extended to Sept 30.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Sep 2025 19:48

AMCA at Crossroads: Why India Must Avoid Another LCA-Style Delay as Rafale Deal Moves Forward
https://bharatshakti.in/amca-at-crossro ... s-forward/
14 Sept 2025

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 21 Sep 2025 12:53

28 firms line up to partner with HAL for stealth fighter project
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 26252.html

28 private firms are vying to partner with HAL for India's fifth-generation stealth fighter project, with a shortlist expected by September 30.

The ADA invited EOI in June to shortlist Indian companies capable of building prototypes and supporting flight test and certification of the indigenous stealth fighter, weeks after the defence ministry unveiled its long-awaited plan to fast-track its development and announced that the execution model will be competitive and provide equal opportunities to public and private sector firms.

The applicant may be a single company, a joint venture or a consortium.

The first prototype is expected to make its maiden flight in 2029, and AMCA’s development is likely to be completed by 2034 before it enters production a year later.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 22 Sep 2025 16:19

Be great to see this going out of HAL and leading to a wider seeding of the Aeronautical industry.
I wonder who is going to be partner for the rafale.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 23 Sep 2025 14:48

Khalsa wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 16:19 Be great to see this going out of HAL and leading to a wider seeding of the Aeronautical industry.
I wonder who is going to be partner for the rafale.

Have you seen the build quality of the Tejas Mk1A? If not, just check the latest NDTV program on the Tejas Mk1A thread. It's really world class build quality with minimal tolerances on the panel gaps. As good as what you'll find on the Rafale or Typhoon.

HAL has now built up that manufacturing experience that AMCA requires. Tight tolerances mean minimal panel gaps and uneven surfaces, which are necessary for stealth.

Only TASL can be a competitor, given that they're going to be manufacturing Rafale airframes at the rate of 2 per month. And they'll have to ensure that the tolerances are as tight as those that Dassault has at it's manufacturing sites in France.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 23 Sep 2025 15:35

If Rafale is going to private then better to keep AMCA in the HAL stables.

HAL
1. Mk1A
2. Mk2
3. AMCA

TASL
1. Rafale
2. C-130 bodies
3. C-295
4. F-16 wings and body

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 24 Sep 2025 17:16

L&T forms Strategic Partnership with BEL for India’s 5th-Generation Fighter Aircraft Programme
https://www.larsentoubro.com/pressrelea ... programme/
24 Sept 2025

Mumbai, September 24, 2025: Larsen & Toubro (L&T) has formed a strategic partnership
with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) to support Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)
programme of the Indian Air Force. The consortium will participate in the Expression of
Interest notice issued by Government of India’s (GoI) Aeronautical Development Agency, by
way of submitting a response in the coming weeks.
The partnership will leverage L&T’s expertise in developing strategic defence and aerospace
platforms, along with BEL’s experience in defence electronics and systems, to jointly
contribute to India’s 5th
-generation fighter aircraft.
The collaboration marks a significant milestone in advancing India’s defence capabilities in
line with GoI’s vision for an ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat’. By combining the strengths of the two
leading defence technology providers, the partnership seeks to deliver a cutting-edge, high-
quality solution.
In the past, L&T and BEL have played pivotal role in India’s indigenous Light Combat Aircraft
programme by supplying major aero-structure modules and developing mission-critical
avionics and electronic systems. Building on this legacy, the consortium will bring proven
expertise and commitment to timely delivery of world-class defence and aerospace
platforms for the Indian Air Force.
Commenting on the development, S N Subrahmanyan, Chairman & Managing Director,
L&T, said: “The collaboration with BEL marks a significant leap in our commitment to the
modernisation of India's defence capabilities. We are honoured to be working with BEL to
deliver next-generation technologies for the Indian Air Force. Both the organisations are
leaders in our respective domains and our combined efforts will play a crucial role in
bolstering national security and advancing self-reliance in defence technologies”.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 26 Sep 2025 07:23

Tata, Kalyani not likely to tie up with HAL for Amca race; L&T picks BEL
https://www.business-standard.com/exter ... 494_1.html
25 Sept 2025

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 30 Sep 2025 20:11

Join Vishnu Som and NDTV's Science Editor Pallava Bagla in a conversation with the man leading India's AMCA development programme — Dr. Jitendra Jadhav, Director General of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

Key questions addressed:

When will India roll out the AMCA?
How many months before the first flight?
How many years for systems validation?
When will AMCA be offered to the IAF for induction?
Will a SAFRAN-powered jet engine eventually replace the GE-414 powered jet?
How complicated is an engine-swap?
Will AMCA incorporate 5th generation plus technologies, including Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 30 Sep 2025 23:18

I can see vishnuSom go "Oh $hit this is complicated"

The good part is the mention that changing engines is doable and is a minor effort compared to other parts of development. Seems very positive!

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 01 Oct 2025 15:29

Kartik, it looks like it more likely to head out to the private stables from the number of houses teaming up.

I sincerely hope the modern IAF looks AMCA heavy in the future.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Oct 2025 19:21

I don't trust a word that IDRW says, so if someone can find an alternate source to the news below...please post it. I will delete this post thereafter. Reportedly the news is coming from the ADA Chief himself.

GTRE Safran 120 kN engine seamlessly fits AMCA: ADA Chief Confirms
https://idrw.org/gtre-safran-120-kn-eng ... owerplant/
02 Oct 2025

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Oct 2025 19:02

VIDEO: https://x.com/ANI/status/1974024519040794876 ---> On Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), Air Chief Marshal AP Singh says, "...As I understand, it is going to fly in this decade, in the 2028, somewhere that is the first flight planned and by 2035, it is supposed to be inducted and operationalised in the Indian Air Force as of now... So I personally feel this timeline can be achieved, or maybe even better, if people really want to do it. It's possible. And as far as technology is concerned now, AMCA technology is fairly clear in our mind as to what we want and what is required and where it is available and how it is available."

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Oct 2025 19:05

AMCA Project To Give Big Boost To Aviation Sector

Seven Indian firms, including HAL, L&T, Adani Defence, Tata Advanced Systems, and Kalyani Strategic Systems, have bid to co-develop the indigenous fifth-generation AMCA fighter jet. The Defence Ministry’s evaluation panel, led by ex-DRDO scientist A Sivathanu Pillai, will assess technical and commercial proposals. With ₹15,000 crore allocated for prototypes, the programme aims to deliver the first of these fighters by 2035. Four to five prototypes will be built first, marking India’s largest-ever military R&D initiative.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 03 Oct 2025 21:31

I hope AMCA goes to HAL and TEDBF/MTA can go to industry consortium. Thats a lot more what the current industry can do at the moment. They still need to go through and make what others have created.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 07 Oct 2025 20:31

@shreedharsingh9
Integrated flight control system of AMca

: NDTV

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 07 Oct 2025 20:35

Parallelly IAF Pursuing 6th-Generation Fighter Ecosystem Development
https://www.indiandefensenews.in/2025/1 ... sixth.html

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is concurrently planning a sixth-generation fighter platform, aiming to define its requirements by 2030 to ensure readiness for the post-AMCA era in the 2040s. This program builds on lessons learned from AMCA's flight testing and is driven by a vision to maintain technological edge in air combat across the next decades.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 07 Oct 2025 21:05

^ Good. Need to be very careful not to let mission creep, or worse, come in the AMCA due to advancements in 6th Gen tech outside.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 17 Oct 2025 21:41

India's ADA Builds Advanced Iron Bird Test Facility for AMCA Fighter Systems
https://www.thedefensenews.com/news-det ... r-Systems/

The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has initiated the establishment of an Advanced Iron Bird Test Facility dedicated to the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program. This initiative represents a significant step toward strengthening India’s indigenous aerospace testing infrastructure and ensuring the smooth progress of its fifth-generation fighter project.

The facility will serve as a comprehensive ground-based testing platform, replicating the aircraft’s critical subsystems to simulate real-world operational flight conditions. It will enable the ADA to rigorously test and validate key onboard systems—such as flight controls, avionics, and hydraulic mechanisms—long before they are installed on the prototype aircraft. This process is crucial for detecting and resolving system integration issues early, ensuring safer and more efficient flight trials later in the program.

According to reports, the Advanced Iron Bird Test Facility is expected to become fully operational within 30 months. This timeline aligns with the AMCA program’s development schedule, which includes prototype rollouts by late 2026 or early 2027, followed by the aircraft’s first flight targeted around 2028. Serial production is expected to begin by 2035, depending on the results of flight and systems testing.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Oct 2025 23:06

India’s 5th-gen fighter aircraft project award likely by Q4 FY27, says L&T Executive VP
https://infra.economictimes.indiatimes. ... /124954751
30 Oct 2025

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/19 ... 0019583266 ---> AMCA project timelines according to L&T:

Oct-Dec 2025 - shortlisting

Jan-Mar 2026 - RFP issue

Jan-Mar 2027 - Selection of winner

2028-2029 - First prototype

2029-2030 - First Flight

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Nov 2025 18:35

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/19 ... 2916218121 ---> The consortium of L&T and Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), which is pursuing India’s 5th Generation Fighter Aircraft (#AMCA), announces the onboarding of Dynamatic Technologies Ltd (DTL), as an exclusive partner for the programme.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 05 Dec 2025 21:06

AMCA Design Is Smarter Than You Think!

In this video, we break down the smart design philosophy behind the AMCA, including stealth shaping, AI-based avionics, supercruise capabilities, sensor fusion, internal weapons bay design, and next-gen materials that make the AMCA truly world-class.

✔ Why AMCA’s design is smarter than people think
✔ Hidden engineering decisions
✔ Stealth features inspired by global 5th-gen jets
✔ AMCA Mk1 vs Mk2 differences
✔ India’s roadmap to a 6th-gen platform

If you’re interested in military aviation, fighter jet design, Indian Air Force modernization, or stealth aircraft, this breakdown is for you.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Jan 2026 22:05

INDIA DUMPS US ENGINE - Chooses France for AMCA in Historic Defence Shift

India has made a massive strategic pivot, officially sidelining US proposals to finalize a landmark jet engine partnership with France’s Safran. In this broadcast, we break down why New Delhi walked away from American deals to secure 100% technology transfer and total sovereignty for its future AMCA stealth fighters.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 29 Jan 2026 15:47

There is no official word on us choosing anything yet for the AMCA. We don't even have an engine exit strategy on the Mk2.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Feb 2026 22:23

Lack Of 6th Gen Fighter May Put India At A Disadvantage

India is falling behind in the sixth-generation fighter race as China advances prototypes and Western nations push demonstrators. Sixth-generation fighters emphasise stealth, AI, manned–unmanned teaming and combat‑cloud integration. China’s rapid progress contrasts with India’s AMCA delays due to engine and sensor gaps. Global programmes include US NGAD and F/A‑XX, Europe’s GCAP and FCAS, plus efforts in Russia, Turkey, Japan and South Korea. India’s options are accelerating AMCA, joining international partnerships, or focusing on drones and electronic warfare to offset delays.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 02 Feb 2026 22:55

Or is the age of the combat jet drawing to a close?

A missile carrier will do just fine. In the air if need be.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Feb 2026 18:35

VIDEO: https://x.com/InsightGL/status/2018524416880382149?s=20 ---> India's Defence Secretary on AMCA:

- Out of 7 bidders, 3 selected
- Final selection in 3 months time
- First prototype in 3-4 years
- Production timeline 10 years

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Feb 2026 18:46

X-Post from the Atmanirbhar Bharat in Defence: News & Discussion thread...

Rakesh wrote: ↑03 Feb 2026 18:45 Design, Simulation, Operation: The Three Layers of Software Dependency That Leave Indian Industry Vulnerable to Foreign Chokepoints
https://swarajyamag.com/commentary/desi ... hokepoints
30 Jan 2026

A well detailed thread on the issue in the quoted post above. Please click on the link below to read the rest of the thread.

https://x.com/amargov/status/2017416361123975543?s=20 ---> India is the world's second-largest market for Dassault CATIA and Siemens NX. Every AMCA design, every Navy warship takes shape in French and German software. We debate hardware indigenisation endlessly. The industrial software question barely exists.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 03 Feb 2026 22:09

N^3 lamented about this. How our GTRE folks, labs etc all use off-the-shelf CFD software, while not understanding from first principles

The "easy way out"

Meanwhile, China has released open-source equivalents of ANSYS etc

bala · Post by **bala** » 04 Feb 2026 01:53

Things like CATIA and NX can be created as a consortium product between private and say IITs/NITs. All the basics for creating such software are well within software geeks knowledge base. Projecting 3D on 2D is a known thing, involves trignometry and matrices. If there is an ongoing project with funding from Infosys, TCS, Wipro, etc along with academia, over time they can create such systems. Entire CAD/CAM stuff requires alternate systems to be made in India. Keep the babus away from such stuff and let it be driven by youngsters and profs who know what it takes, similar to IIT-M ramjet artillery. These projects are worth every paisa. Like the effort to make ARM-RISC processors within India (another IIT-M project!), these are worthwhile projects for any graduating bachelors/master/phd student to take part into with their contributions. One company that could do it by themselves is Zoho.

Just an aside: most utility programs for Unix OS when it was created at AT&T Bell labs, had many contributors from academia who provided great programs as part of the effort. We have to get all our engineering institutes be a part of such activity, you never know what young minds can create.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 04 Feb 2026 04:37

Prem Kumar wrote: ↑03 Feb 2026 22:09 N^3 lamented about this. How our GTRE folks, labs etc all use off-the-shelf CFD software, while not understanding from first principles

The "easy way out"

Meanwhile, China has released open-source equivalents of ANSYS etc

Generally speaking, what you said is correct. But we also have labs that developed software to validate our understanding of a topic from first principles. ADA developed a couple of excellent software tools to validate control laws that's used in aviation. Autolay was another tool from LCA program which is developed by ADA and rolled out commercially. Similarly, years ago RCI/DRDL labs in Hyderabad had their own set of software tools to validate various aspects of electronics/electricals that went into a lot of our arms(I am using this as a catchall term). I remember some desi defense vendors like 'Data Pattern' and others had their own software to design, and validate critical components. All of this happening more than 20 years ago.

I think the point I'm making is, wherever we invested in building our capabilities organically, we came up with our own solutions, and tools derived from understanding the first principles of a problem. In projects like AMCA/Kaveri GTRE, it's more the mouth talking than the hand delivering the work, and I am not surprised these programs making use of COTS solutions to "pretend" they are doing something.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 04 Feb 2026 05:02

CATIA is widely used both in Aerospace & Defense (A&D) and automotive sectors for over 40 years. These are stable software tools. There is no point in recreating another CAD/CAM system. There have been many systems that pretty much bit the dust. Parametric Corp (PTC) came up with a different approach, but still CATIA holds a larger lead in A&D. Apart from this there is an ecosystem of products that are built on top of CATIA.

Even if a desi CAD/ CAM system is designed from scratch, how successful will it be in capturing market share and by when? In my opinion, this will not be a wise use of capital. Same goes for FEA products. There is nothing so special or secretive about these products that it could be used for technology denial. AutoCAD has been around for about the same period of time, but is not in the same league as CATIA.

It would be wiser for the new gen to work on mission computer software, automation and AI to reduce pilot work load etc.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Feb 2026 05:03

Rakesh wrote: ↑03 Feb 2026 18:35 VIDEO: https://x.com/InsightGL/status/2018524416880382149?s=20 ---> India's Defence Secretary on AMCA:

- Out of 7 bidders, 3 selected
- Final selection in 3 months time
- First prototype in 3-4 years
- Production timeline 10 years

https://x.com/Indrani1_Roy/status/20187 ... 69226?s=20 ---> Here's a suggestion. Forget L1 no-cost-no-commitment mentality. Pay for the prototype building by at least two bidders. Have a competition between the prototypes. Give the orders based on the readiness of the prototypes. We did this for ATAGS too!

bkswarti · Post by **bkswarti** » 04 Feb 2026 09:34

^Isnt the design for AMCA mostly done?

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 04 Feb 2026 09:41

Breaking news : HAL out of AMCA race

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 893595.cms

AMCA fighter jet programme: Tata, L&T, Bharat Forge in fighter jet race; HAL out

Kanoji · Post by **Kanoji** » 04 Feb 2026 09:54

drnayar wrote: ↑04 Feb 2026 09:41 Breaking news : HAL out of AMCA race

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 893595.cms

AMCA fighter jet programme: Tata, L&T, Bharat Forge in fighter jet race; HAL out

Other than the fact that the three shortlisted companies are in the manufacturing domain, none of the three companies shortlisted for AMCA have any experience in fighter aircraft manufacturing.

Is aircraft manufacturing that easy?

I request aero gurus to throw some light on this and the challenges they can expect.