6th Generation Fighter Program: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

Starting this thread as a lot of news - including officially - about India partnering with a foreign nation on a sixth generation fighter program.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/livefist/status/2034320911906836532?s=20 ---> India will join either the Tempest or FCAS sixth generation fighter programs, Indian MoD tells Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence.

[Rakesh]

Rafale To FCAS: India Emerges “Perfect Partner” To Replace Germany in Europe’s Struggling €100B, 6th-Gen Fighter Program?
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/from-rafa ... t-program/
24 Feb 2026

India eyes 6th generation FCAS, looks at tying up with France for possible collaboration
https://theprint.in/defence/india-eyes- ... n/2861054/
23 Feb 2026

Initial talks held on the possibility of India entering the programme that was started in 2017 between France, Germany and Spain to ensure European sovereignty in defence and security.

Beyond Rafale, why India is eyeing sixth generation fighter aircraft program FCAS with France

In what could be a major collaboration in the aviation sector, India is exploring the possibility of teaming up with France for co-development and co-manufacture of a futuristic sixth-generation fighter under the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) programme. ThePrint’s Editor – Defence and Diplomacy Snehesh Alex Philip explains in DefenceScope.

[Rakesh]

India pitches to join Future Combat Air System with France
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 696418.ece
03 March 2026

India looking to join one of two European consortia developing 6th-gen fighter jets: Par Panel report
https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 318202932/
18 March 2026

India Eyes Entry Into European 6th-Generation Fighter Program. What It Means
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-e ... _topscroll
19 March 2026

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has informed the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence that the IAF is exploring collaboration with one of two European consortia currently working on sixth-generation fighters.

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/ShivAroor/status/2034850108567883983?s=20 ---> India is all set to join a European sixth generation fighter aircraft program, most likely the France-led ‘FCAS’. Why is India doing this? Good? Bad? Easy? Difficult? I explain + @zone5aviation joined me for a quick view.

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Sukhoi Su 57 India Deal | India To Choose Su-57? India To Join FCAS Next?

Breaking: India eyes game-changing moves in air power! Potentially acquiring Russia's Su-57 stealth fighters & showing interest in Europe's FCAS 6th-gen program. Here's why this could reshape the skies.

Su-57 Acquisition: India may buy 36–40 Su-57E jets in a major deal, including source code access for deep customization. A fast bridge to boost IAF stealth power while AMCA matures!

FCAS Interest: With tensions in the Franco-German FCAS project, India signals strong readiness to partner with France on co-developing true 6th-gen fighters. Jumping straight from 4th to next-gen tech!

⚔ ️Game Changer for IAF: Su-57 delivers 5th-gen muscle against regional rivals, while FCAS opens the door to unmanned, AI-driven future warfare. Squadron strength + leapfrog tech = massive edge!

Tech Boost: Su-57 source codes enable indigenous upgrades & integration. FCAS collaboration could bring cutting-edge aero engines, stealth design & sensor fusion know-how. DRDO gets a huge R&D acceleration!

Global Impact: Playing both Russia & France strengthens India's strategic autonomy in a multipolar world. A bold dual-track strategy that could surprise adversaries and reshape Indo-Pacific air power balance!

[Rakesh]

India looking to join one of two European consortia developing 6th-gen fighter jets: Par Panel report
https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 318202932/
18 March 2026

Telling the French that we have other options...Mind it.

GCAP exists solely to avoid a single vendor situation. It is FCAS all the way...

[Rakesh]

Telling the French that we have other options...Mind it.

It's also telling the world that we are ping-ponging 'from pillar to post' in the absence of credible local efforts.

At this point we have engaged HAL (AMCA), with Russians (Su-57 & beyond), with French (FCAS), now showing interest with the Euros, while Trump & desi American lobby wants us get into bed with F-35.

We are playing ping-pong, because the heart of all the four aircraft (AMCA, Su-57, FCAS and F-35) you have listed above, will feature a foreign turbofan. The irony of the AMCA is ---> India's first VLO fighter will feature a GE F414-INS6 turbofan for the first two squadrons.

The lack of turbofan development is the reason why India is struggling with her military aviation programs. This is going to result in large scale imports of Rafale and a combination of 5th (Su-57) and 6th (FCAS) gen fighters. This will have a negative effect on the Tejas Mk1A, the Tejas Mk2 and AMCA programs in terms of funds required to scale production and develop technology. The more we squander money on foreign platforms, the less money there will be for local platforms.

And while the recent news on turbofan development is a welcome step in the right direction, the IAF is staring at an abyss (squadron wise) of its own making. If the GOI does not import fighters (which will not arrive in a decent timeframe anyway!), India's airpower will be negligent. Poor decision making and lack of vision has resulted in the chickens coming home to roost.

[Rakesh]

The Chinese and the Turks must be feeling left out.

IAF is trying to follow the Qatari game plan

[Rakesh]

India Seeks Role In FCAS Or GCAP Fighter Consortia
https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircra ... -consortia
18 March 2026

UK-Japan or France-Germany? India weighs options for 6th-gen fighter tie-up
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 664363.cms
19 March 2026

6th-Gen Gambit: Will India Join the European Club?
https://beatsinbrief.com/2026/03/19/ind ... date-2026/
19 March 2026

India Eyes Sixth-Generation Fighter Programs GCAP and FCAS Amid Air Power Modernization Push
https://defencetalks.com/india-sixth-ge ... rnization/
21 March 2026

FCAS vs GCAP: After Mystère, Mirage & Rafale, Will India Stick with France or Pivot to UK-Japan for 6th-Gen Jets?
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/fcas-vs-gcap-india-jets/
22 March 2026

[Rakesh]

India seeking to join European sixth-generation fighter program: Reports
https://breakingdefense.com/2026/03/ind ... m-reports/
20 March 2026

One defense analyst said that at this stage, it may be difficult for either the GCAP or FCAS teams to take on new development partners.

India Joining One Of Europe’s Fighter Programs Is Anything But Easy
https://www.twz.com/air/india-joining-o ... g-but-easy
19 March 2026

India has an urgent need for new combat aircraft but the European next-generation fighter offerings may not be the answer.

[Rakesh]

GCAP for FCAS? What is India eyeing for it’s 6th generation fighter

India has, for the first time, officially acknowledged its intent to enter the sixth-generation fighter race, with the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence revealing that two global consortia are currently developing such platforms and India is planning to join one of it. Snehesh Alex Philip, Editor - Defence and Diplomacy explains in Defence Scope.

[Rakesh]

6th-Gen Race Heats Up: India Eyes UK-France Fighter Jet Projects

India is in advanced talks to join a European sixth-generation fighter jet programme—either the UK-led GCAP or France-led FCAS. This marks a major shift in India's air power strategy as global militaries move toward next-generation warfare capabilities, including AI-driven combat systems, stealth dominance, and drone wingmen.

[VinodTK]

It feels surprising to see the Indian Air Force choose French equipment for its arsenal, given that France is not widely associated with decisive victories in any major wars or with producing weapons that have fundamentally changed the course of military history. The choices concern a little bit.

[bkswarti]

Would joining GCAP or FCAS help expedite the timelines for AMCA?

Clearly GCAP is not an option. They are too far ahead, we won’t get any work sharing

[ashthor]

The lack of turbofan development is the reason why India is struggling with her military aviation programs. This is going to result in large scale imports of Rafale and a combination of 5th (Su-57) and 6th (FCAS) gen fighters.

The blame lies with none other than the Govt. Starting with the PM, RM, Babus and the AF.

[Rakesh]

It feels surprising to see the Indian Air Force choose French equipment for its arsenal, given that France is not widely associated with decisive victories in any major wars or with producing weapons that have fundamentally changed the course of military history. The choices concern a little bit.

Indeed true, but there is another perspective that needs to be considered.

1) Op Sindoor: Rafale performed exceptionally well, among all the other IAF assets on the night of May 07th. Even the Mirage 2000 and the Jaguar (another French-Anglo aircraft) performed as per expectations.

2) 2019 Balakot airstrike: Mirage 2000s (armed with Spice) were the main strike force. Pinpoint accuracy on target.

3) 1999 Kargil: Mirage 2000s (armed with LGBs) were the decisive force multiplier. Famous for its successful strike on Tiger Hill. The performance of the Mirage 2000 paved way for the requirement from Air HQ of 126 Mirage 2000s in 2000/01. That transformed into the MMRCA contest, then the SE contest (which the IAF was not keen on) and the MRFA contest, in which the Rafale won.

4) 1971 Indo-Pak War: The Mystère IV fighter-bomber saw extensive service as a ground-attack aircraft.

5) 1965 Indo-Pak War: The Mystère IV fighter-bomber was used heavily in ground attack and for close air support during the intense ground fighting. One Mystère even shot down a F-104 Starfighter (the most advanced aircraft in South Asia at the time) during a dogfight. Squadron Leader AB Devayya (the Mystère pilot) lost his life in that dogfight, but he proved that IAF training ultimately prevails.

Moral of the Story --> It is how the IAF used the aircraft that made all the difference. Russian aircraft were also used to great effect in all the above conflicts as well. Coincidentally, the PAF - which used American-origin aircraft - in the above conflicts (F-86 in 1965 and 1971 and F-16s in 1999, 2019 and 2025) could not give them a decisive victory. This despite the fact, that the F-16 - globally - is far more combat proven than the Mirage 2000 or the Rafale.

The IAF is very happy with French maal and they have 6+ decades of experience to prove it. Air HQ wants more French maal and will always adopt the French over anyone else, even the Russians. The main issue with the French is that they are very stingy when it comes to technology sharing and their platforms are exorbitantly expensive. But their platforms perform when required.

And for an end-user/customer like the IAF, that makes all the difference. Now the mindset of the IAF just being an end-user/customer needs to change, but that is a discussion that belongs in a different thread. But if the IAF does end up with the FCAS, it will most certainly break the bank...but it will work.

P.S. Some of our Atmanirbhar Bharat products (in service and incoming) also feature French components. HAL Dhruv, HAL Prachand and HAL LUH all fly with variants of the Safran Ardiden turboshaft. The Indian Navy's upcoming SSN (Project 77) will have pump jet propulsion tech from France. The AMCA Mk2 will feature a turbofan that will be borne out of a JV between Safran and GTRE. And perhaps future Tejas MLUs could see an engine change from GE to Kaveri, which will have French assistance/sub-components in there.

P.S.S. Even the air component of India's strategic nuclear triad is on French origin platforms i.e. started off with Mirage 2000 and Jaguar in the 1980s and continued to remain so, till the arrival of the Rafale. In the future, the Tejas Mk2 will likely complement the Rafale. And AMCA will most certainly take over from Rafale.

[Sumeet]

We are late for GCAP. I don't think any significant work share could be grabbed now.

According to a recent FT article,
1) Japan is furious with UK's delay in funding the next round of program.
2) Besides that UK and Japan are not on the same page. Japan wants a fighter first and asap. UK wants it to be a mature System of Systems combat architecture. So there is prioritization conflict there.

The more folks get involved in this program there will be delays for upgrading etc eventually ... Joining as development partner will help get access to source code but I don't think IPR will be shared (for example if we want to deep modify any component like EW system or Radar) ?

Plus it will be interesting to see if we get GCAP, will we eventually be able to get S-500 as well or that will be a blessing in disguise to indigenously developed LR/EX LR IADs as the forces won't be able to get S-500 and have to buy local . Also, we need this aircraft to be a nuclear delivery platform which I don't think is a priority for UK/Japan/Italy.

Plus GCAP will not have a naval version. So that is something we will have to develop on our own. In late 2040's we should be in power projection business regionally at the least. So naval aviation will matter as much as AF.

With FCAS , Russian or Israeli SAMs in addition to our indigenous shouldn't be an issue. This will also solve our naval variant problem. But between the two I have less hope from FCAS as France is very highly protective about its technologies and I doubt things will be shared at the deepest level. Also, how well they would respond to our needs also is a question mark. But if we prefer FCAS, better to sign it together with Rafale contract and use it to get more access to Rafale deal as well.

We need to act fast on this and not take decision 5 years down the road.

[Sumeet]

Not directly relevant to this thread but we should play our cards right and try to become a defense manufacturing hub for lot of western countries (European & US). They have realized via Ukraine war, Iran war that they need scale for rapid development. We should clearly tap that, because no other country can do that for them at scales of economy and skills that we can do. China won't be there to compete with us.

Israel is also planning to make India a manufacturing hub for their products. Now this may not give us IPR and may be screwdriver giri but this is will give us jobs for masses, will upgrade our skill level in hi tech manufacturing, will have pay offs for our indigenous programs as well, will give us leverage with developed economies of the world.

[Manish_P]

Not directly relevant to this thread but we should play our cards right and try to become a defense manufacturing hub for lot of western countries (European & US). ....

Now this may not give us IPR and may be screwdriver giri but this is will give us jobs for masses, will upgrade our skill level in hi tech manufacturing, will have pay offs for our indigenous programs as well, will give us leverage with developed economies of the world.

+1

Absolutely right.

This is exactly what our shrewd 'baniya' PM, Modi ji saw 2+ decades ago during his Gujarat CM stint and he brought it to scale at the national level during his PM stint.

Hence 'Make in India' which is the necessary precursor to 'Made in India'

[Kartik]

GCAP is almost not an option at all.

It is too far ahead, with workshare already split between UK, Japanese and Italian industries across airframe, engine, avionics, radar, missiles, etc. India will gain NOTHING from joining this program since the development is further ahead than FCAS as of now.

GCAP is heavily tailored by the Mitsubishi F-X studies into what the JASDF needed. It'll result in a BIG fighter with large fuel fraction, high endurance and sizeable payload. All this was dictated by Japanese requirements that specified long range, excellent endurance and very capable sensor, EW & comms suite.

GCAP is also crucially a non-nuclear fighter with no naval variant either. UK will use F-35s for nuclear strike, Japan has no such requirement, nor does Italy. None of these nations need a naval fighter, which basically means it will be an Air Force variant only.

- GCAP engine will be designed by Rolls-Royce and IHI of Japan with Avio Aero of Italy bringing in some workshare. There is no scope for any workshare for any Indian entity here, nor does it overlap with the effort for a new 120 kN engine for the AMCA.

FCAS on the other hand is much more suited to India for the following reasons:

- France's Dassault & Germany's Airbus have been bickering so much that Phase 2 is delayed. Dassault was supposed to be the lead on the fighter development & Airbus was supposed to take the Lead role on the unmanned UCAV that would be developed. Both would work together on the 'Combat Cloud' that would act as the brain for the fighter-UCAV team.

- FCAS will have a naval variant since France needs one. Germany doesn't. India does. This means India has a bigger overlap in terms of naval requirements being baked into the FCAS fighter design. For Germany this naval requirement simply adds unnecessary cost, complexity and a lot more money for the design, development and testing of a naval variant.

- FCAS will have a nuclear role since France intends to use it for manned nuclear strike role after the Rafale retires. Germany has bought 35 F-35s which will use the American nukes that are stationed on German soil. Once again, for Germany this nuclear requirement simply adds unnecessary cost, complexity and a lot more money for the design, development and testing of a nuclear capable fighter and ASMP-A type ALCM.

- If India negotiates well, it can seek workshare as well as technology transfer for the FCAS's engine that are currently split 50-50% between MTU of Germany and Safran of France with minor workshare for ITP Aero of Spain.

All this becomes especially important for the FCAS since Macron and the German Chancellor Merz are going to have a very crucial meeting to decide whether FCAS moves forward as a Franco-German project or whether they decide to part ways.

Franco German FCAS spat on the brink as decisive meeting nears

If Germany does part ways, France will need a partner with equal financial heft. As of now only India is that possible country. France will also not be so worried about India demanding as much control over decisions as Airbus did. Dassault is a very capable but also very controlling organization- they will want the lead in the fighter design and I suspect the IAF (and IN which is surely watching with bated breath) will be more than happy to let that happen if it's needs are met.

If Germany goes, so does MTU. That means that the GTRE-Safran 120 kN engine JV could become the most likely baseline for a FCAS. It'll likely be taken a notch further, maybe with a variable cycle like everyone thinks a 6th gen fighter engine should use.

With FCAS, if Germany goes, there is workshare to be had. With GCAP there is literally no workshare left to share at all. With GCAP we'll simply be buying a large, IAF fighter and CCA with next to no inputs given how advanced it is in design. With FCAS, there is still room to fit in, and that room could suddenly balloon into a much larger space if Germany quits.

Watch out for the Macron and Merz meeting.

[Kartik]

This is the workshare split between MTU, Safran and ITP Aero for the new engine being designed for the NGF fighter under the FCAS program.

Link

Engine specialists MTU Aero Engines, Safran Aircraft Engines, and ITP Aero are developing the engine for the New Generation Fighter under the leadership of EUMET (European Military Engine Team), an MTU and Safran joint venture. MTU is responsible for its core competencies of high-pressure and low-pressure compressors and the compressor intermediate case as well as for parts of the control systems. It is also the lead company for aspects of engine maintenance. Safran is in charge of engine design and integration, while ITP Aero is responsible for the low-pressure turbine and the thrust nozzle.

MTU has the EJ-200 pedigree along with Rolls Royce. If Germany quits this program, this engine JV will be likely liquidated and France and Spain will need a new partner to fit in.

High pressure and low pressure compressors and the compressor intermediate case as well as parts of the control systems are currently part of MTU workshare. That is what will likely be up for grabs if we join and Germany leaves.

As one can read in the link given, it is a Variable Cycle engine. That's one gen further ahead of the AMCA's 120 kN engine which isn't a Variable Cycle engine.

[drnayar]

GCAP is almost not an option at all.

It is too far ahead, with workshare already split between UK, Japanese and Italian industries across airframe, engine, avionics, radar, missiles, etc. India will gain NOTHING from joining this program since the development is further ahead than FCAS as of now.

Franco German FCAS spat on the brink as decisive meeting nears

If Germany does part ways, France will need a partner with equal financial heft. As of now only India is that possible country. France will also not be so worried about India demanding as much control over decisions as Airbus did. Dassault is a very capable but also very controlling organization- they will want the lead in the fighter design and I suspect the IAF (and IN which is surely watching with bated breath) will be more than happy to let that happen if it's needs are met.

If Germany goes, so does MTU. That means that the GTRE-Safran 120 kN engine JV could become the most likely baseline for a FCAS. It'll likely be taken a notch further, maybe with a variable cycle like everyone thinks a 6th gen fighter engine should use.

With FCAS, if Germany goes, there is workshare to be had. With GCAP there is literally no workshare left to share at all. With GCAP we'll simply be buying a large, IAF fighter and CCA with next to no inputs given how advanced it is in design. With FCAS, there is still room to fit in, and that room could suddenly balloon into a much larger space if Germany quits.

Watch out for the Macron and Merz meeting.

Wont the "problem" Dassault has with the Airbus affect India as well ? They want to be the lead for the whole program and run with their specs ., Airbus wants equal share. How is India even going to come close to this ? This is more like the PAF FA redux .. India in just for spending money but no meaningful share..

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/chakranewz/status/2037490 ... 79643?s=20 ---> What is a 6th Gen Fighter? A lot of talk is happening on what a “6th Generation” fighter aircraft looks like. This secret project has not been given a proper definition yet but the world’s leading defence researchers are racing to develop such a system. Ayaan Ahmad from Chakra News explains what’s next in this ever evolving world of Tech?

[Rakesh]

Epic Fury and India’s Airpower Moment
https://radmsudhirpillai.substack.com/p ... wer-moment
27 March 2026

[Rakesh]

X-Post from Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion thread...

What India needs right now are three low-bypass turbofan programs for the current/future fleet;

• 90 kN: for the Tejas Mk1A, Tejas LIFT (twin seater), Naval Tejas Mk1 (twin seater).

• 100 - 110 kN: for the single engine Tejas Mk2, the 5th Gen TEDBF, the HLFT-42.

• 120 - 130 kN: for the AMCA (5th Gen), 6th Gen fighter and VLO strategic bomber.

https://x.com/sakthivel_cit93/status/20 ... 81416?s=20 ----> Does anyone at @HALHQBLR think about building 3 GTRE Kaveri-powered 6th generation like J-36 by PLAAF? With the option of replacing those engines with 140kN GTRE-Safran JV engine, once its ready. Instead of wasting time on GE 414 powered trainer, ADA is there to design, why wait?

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Tracking_Live/status/2041 ... 45137?s=20 ---> As we know, the MoD tabled a 152-page report on 2026 Defence budget plans on 18 March 2026. The report officially disclosed that the IAF will seek to join one of two 6th-generation fighter consortia:

1. The Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) comprising the UK, Italy, and Japan.

2. The Future Combat Air System (FCAS), comprising France and Germany.

Unfortunately, India’s interest arrives at a moment when FCAS appears to be in terminal decline. Because France and Germany had some disagreements on industrial leadership, technology sharing, and divergent operational requirements. While France’s Dassault Aviation demands full control over the fighter pillar to protect its expertise, which Germany’s Airbus resists, creating workshare disputes. Strategic differences also exist: France requires nuclear-capable, carrier-based jets for strategic autonomy, whereas Germany prefers NATO-aligned, conventional platforms.

It will be interesting to see what IAF chooses?

Share your Thoughts and tell us what should IAF choose?

[Kartik]

GCAP is almost not an option at all.

It is too far ahead, with workshare already split between UK, Japanese and Italian industries across airframe, engine, avionics, radar, missiles, etc. India will gain NOTHING from joining this program since the development is further ahead than FCAS as of now.

Franco German FCAS spat on the brink as decisive meeting nears

If Germany does part ways, France will need a partner with equal financial heft. As of now only India is that possible country. France will also not be so worried about India demanding as much control over decisions as Airbus did. Dassault is a very capable but also very controlling organization- they will want the lead in the fighter design and I suspect the IAF (and IN which is surely watching with bated breath) will be more than happy to let that happen if it's needs are met.

If Germany goes, so does MTU. That means that the GTRE-Safran 120 kN engine JV could become the most likely baseline for a FCAS. It'll likely be taken a notch further, maybe with a variable cycle like everyone thinks a 6th gen fighter engine should use.

With FCAS, if Germany goes, there is workshare to be had. With GCAP there is literally no workshare left to share at all. With GCAP we'll simply be buying a large, IAF fighter and CCA with next to no inputs given how advanced it is in design. With FCAS, there is still room to fit in, and that room could suddenly balloon into a much larger space if Germany quits.

Watch out for the Macron and Merz meeting.

Wont the "problem" Dassault has with the Airbus affect India as well ? They want to be the lead for the whole program and run with their specs ., Airbus wants equal share. How is India even going to come close to this ? This is more like the PAF FA redux .. India in just for spending money but no meaningful share..

India anyway wouldn't have asked for equal share in the fighter design and development the way Airbus is demanding. PAK-FA had a major problem in that India joined the program when the T-50 prototype was already deep into development. At that stage India had very little say in what it wanted from it's 5th gen fighter. Even after joining that program, it was given little access and workshare was negligible.

With SCAF being at Phase 2, there is still scope for the IAF and IN to define their requirements, although I believe that given the Rafale heritage, whatever Dassault would've listed as it's requirements will closely overlap with IAF and IN requirements.

[drnayar]

https://x.com/Tracking_Live/status/2041 ... 45137?s=20 ---> As we know, the MoD tabled a 152-page report on 2026 Defence budget plans on 18 March 2026. The report officially disclosed that the IAF will seek to join one of two 6th-generation fighter consortia:

1. The Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) comprising the UK, Italy, and Japan.

2. The Future Combat Air System (FCAS), comprising France and Germany.

Unfortunately, India’s interest arrives at a moment when FCAS appears to be in terminal decline. Because France and Germany had some disagreements on industrial leadership, technology sharing, and divergent operational requirements. While France’s Dassault Aviation demands full control over the fighter pillar to protect its expertise, which Germany’s Airbus resists, creating workshare disputes. Strategic differences also exist: France requires nuclear-capable, carrier-based jets for strategic autonomy, whereas Germany prefers NATO-aligned, conventional platforms.

It will be interesting to see what IAF chooses?

Share your Thoughts and tell us what should IAF choose?

IAF will seek to join one or BOTH of the two 6th-generation fighter consortia.

Might make sense , as the level of access would be different for each , and also gives India the option to choose the best technologies from both

[drnayar]

Germany Drops Jet Project With France in Setback for European Defense Sovereignty
https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/german ... y-3f7a8b27
08 June 2026

Move comes after companies involved in the project had fought over who should take the lead.

Interesting, how is India going to respond?

[Jay]

Interesting, how is India going to respond?

By launching another round of RFI/RFP's and wasting another decade of our precious time, and capital in absolutely mindless but dead-end negotiations with everyone. Wish I was joking, but I'm not.

[Rakesh]

India will join the program, because it is the easy path geopolitically. Atmanirbharta = Israel-nirbharata, France-nirbharata, Russia-nirbharatha, etc.

None of the domestic upcoming aviation programs are making any headway. HLFT-42, TEDBF, AMCA, etc are all reliant on foreign OEMs.

The end goal for this Govt is to license produce someone else’s platform and call it Atmanirbharta.

[VinodTK]

India will join the program, because it is the easy path geopolitically. Atmanirbharta = Israel-nirbharata, France-nirbharata, Russia-nirbharatha, etc.

None of the domestic upcoming aviation programs are making any headway. HLFT-42, TEDBF, AMCA, etc are all reliant on foreign OEMs.

The end goal for this Govt is to license produce someone else’s platform and call it Atmanirbharta.

I don't know if the government deserves all the blame. At least it appears to be taking steps to strengthen the nation's defense.

The real problem lies with organizations such as HAL, which are tasked with developing and delivering critical systems. Their record on execution has been poor, but they remain remarkably adept at announcing ambitious delivery dates far into the future—dates that rarely seem to be met.

[bala]

Everyone seems to have ambition but the trouble is that you have to back it up by moolah and capable teams. The latter two are missing from the equation. However, 6th gen, stealth, etc are great buzzwords being bandied about but without an engine the dreamers are really floating on hot gas self generated. Blaming HAL seems to be the favorite target. But wait isn't HAL the one that operationalized an ADA Tejas design since HAL has experience building working systems. Who else in India has such experience in aircrafts, a Tata, a Adani, who exactly. Without serious planning and backup of moolah Indians are wasting time thinking about un-obtainium. No one is willing to part their crown jewels even for money.

[williams]

So we don't have an engine and seems like GTRE has given up and would like to rely on partnership collaboration with Safran. Good or bad lets start that work and ground up lets go for adaptive engine tech - which is not a big deal once you've figured out the metallurgy for high thrust.

How big a jump can it be if we can incorporate some of the multi-spectral stealth tech in AMCA.

Add more AI, manned/unmanned pairing (which we already have made inroads in the CATS program) and you got a rudimentary 6th gen aircraft.

My point is we can make a leap once the basics are in place to manufacture AMCA in numbers. Hence our focus should be to build the necessary manufacturing and supply chain infrastructure to make AMCA fly. Lets focus on building the necessary manufacturing capability to produce next generation engines.

I know HAL has some of the primordial infrastructure and knowledge to do this. The reason defense ministry asked for private players, is that it is one way to bring in some private high tech R&D interest in this country. If HAL and DRDO shares know-how/why the private players will observe it quite easily. What you get from the private players is management efficiency and competence. They can hire and fire people at will. They can fix compensation based on performance and reward the innovators. They will beg/borrow/even steal to reach the goal. They can also positively grease the necessary hands if needed to get the job done. You don't get that in a sarkari org period. The aim is not to trivialize HAL's experience, but add force multiplication to it.

[bala]

I can think of a few private companies who can do something - L&T, Godrej and Bharat Forge. These companies achieved something of value since they closely worked with the stakeholders like Indian Navy, ISRO, BARC, Army. BTW HAL has also worked with ISRO (rocket parts) and Army (for Helos). However the Airforce of India is stand offish and will not involve themselves into any Atma nirbhar effort, heck they don't even volunteer to test stuff. So far the rest of the private industry has been screwdrivergiri experts. None of them have any real progress to show for in terms of high tech aircraft making. No IP, nothing original, nothing to show for. What exactly are they bringing to the table. Tis not easy to wave a magic wand and hope things will fall into place. Only Defence Babus will come up with such rubbish and they will convince our politicos who are clueless champs.

Ghatak is already dabbling in 6th gen like flight characteristics and therefore get Ghatak going with the Kaveri engine. BTW getting a working engine is job #1. For India the only sensible way to progress IMO is to continue Tejas including MKII and then onto AMCA. You have to invest in such efforts, including getting the aircraft engine in working order to fly in Tejas. These are the basics. Once you have some expertize then you dabble in other things if money permits. Rest is all an exercise in vanity, who cares if the cheens have 7th gen ding dongs.

[Rakesh]

The drum beats have started among the media i.e. India "must" join FCAS. Read the tweets below...

https://x.com/VishnuNDTV/status/2064207 ... 91654?s=20 ---> India needs to use this opportunity to jump right in as a full fledged partner. Finding plus development of a 6th gen fighter exactly the way we want it.

https://x.com/shiv_cybersurg/status/206 ... 27565?s=20 ---> You know very well Vishnu that jumping in will get us nothing but headaches and denial of tech. We have not yet got gen 5. We can only give money and 10% of the tech. They have 90%. Surprised that you, as a long term military aviation observer, think there is merit in such opportunism. Can you justify - maybe on one of your specials - Ctrl-Alt-Defence?

https://x.com/VishnuNDTV/status/2064550 ... 91927?s=20 --->

--> ️There is only one word we need to look at as we respond to military threats in our region - `capability.'
--> ️Either we have it or we don't.
--> ️China’s sixth-generation stealth platforms like the J-36 and the J-50 will likely deliver near-zero radar cross-section, blinding Indian air defenses across the Himalayas.
--> Significant super cruise - possibly above Mach 1.5 would enable deep strikes.
--> Extended 2,500 km ranges and massive bays enable unrefueled strikes.
--> Megawatt power drives a host of futuristic weapons systems - offense and defence and profound sensor fusion that enables drone swarms to saturate skies with coordinated threats. These will overwhelm even the most advanced SAM networks.
--> These features grant China decisive first-strike dominance, one that will force us into a permanent defensive posture.
--> How do we respond to this?
--> By dissing journalists who talk about partnering with France on Europe's most advanced air combat programme. (''import bahadur,'' ''dalal'' etc.)
--> Reject any partnership without even knowing what is and is not on offer.
--> Assume that partnering on FCAS will come at the expense of indigenous programmes. It won't.
--> Assume that this will be a PAKFA programme redux.
--> The choice is clear - be relevant or be obsolete. No one said that securing one's military future comes cheap. But look all around us and please, smell the coffee.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/FalgunOza2/status/2064559 ... 24454?s=20 ---> Why are all analysts and defence experts keen on 6th Gen, but what we should actually focus is 5th gen AMCA and our own high thrust engine?

https://x.com/VishnuNDTV/status/2064561 ... 10043?s=20 ---> Because the Indian 5th generation platform doesn't presently exist while the Chinese are flying at least 2 sixth generation prototypes presently and already have more than 200 5th generation stealth platforms (J-20) already in service.

https://x.com/Yatha0804/status/2064571800189800589?s=20 ---> Indian 5th gen platform doesn't exist precisely because we didn't invest in the capabilities at the right time. You want to us repeat the same mistake here and be Jack of all trades, master of none?

https://x.com/VishnuNDTV/status/2064574 ... 13780?s=20 ---> Precisely. We didn't invest in capabilities. Our R&D has been abysmal. While clearly we have areas of extraordinary excellence (our missile programme), we need to fill the gaps. Hanging around indefinitely to invent technology no one will share makes no sense. The Chinese already have J-20s deployed on frontline Tibetan airbases.

[drnayar]

Germany is looking for 6th gen fighter programme partners , what say India ?

[Rakesh]

Germany is looking for 6th gen fighter programme partners , what say India ?

Germany will join GCAP. This is a redux of the Eurofighter Typhoon vs Rafale development. History repeating itself.

Germany would be strong partner for GCAP fighter project, Leonardo CEO says
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/germa ... 30383.html
09 June 2026

[Rakesh]

The western world will see at least four separate 6th gen fighter platforms - FCAS (France), GCAP (Euro), NGAD (US) and FFS (Sweden). Too early to say, but it appears likely that India will join FCAS. However it all depends on how the Rafale deal - if ever signed - pans out. If the French renege on their contractual obligations, then it will be hard pressed for India to agree on FCAS.

P.S. If Safran wins the engine deal with India and *IF* Safran does co-develop the AMCA turbofan with GTRE without humming & hawing, India joining FCAS will become a certainty.

FCAS’ success solely rests on Dassault’s future behaviour

The ball rests entirely in France’s court!