Understanding the US - Again

[A_Gupta]

We are told:

Zambia signed a landmark Joint Venture (JV) with India's Akums Drugs and Pharmaceuticals Limited on August 22, 2025, to establish a manufacturing plant in the Lusaka South Multi-Facility Economic Zone. This partnership aims to locally produce around 150 essential medicines, reducing import reliance and improving drug security.

Key details of the partnership include:

Structure: A Joint Venture where Akums holds a 51% stake and the Zambian government holds 49%, according to Pharma.economictimes.indiatimes.com.

Production: The facility will produce oral solids, liquids, injectables, and beta-lactam products.

Capacity: It aims to enable self-sufficiency in essential medicines and potentially export to neighboring countries.

Timeline: Construction was set to begin in late 2025, with operations commencing around 2028, PharmaSource reported.

This initiative is a major step in bolstering Zambia's pharmaceutical sector, aimed at lowering costs and reducing chronic stockouts of medicines.

[A_Gupta]

“ Beyond physical mineral extraction, the sweeping American proposal includes a highly controversial provision regarding sovereign national medical records. Washington negotiators have demanded 10 years of access to Zambian health and genetic data.

In contrast, the US is only offering five years of funding in return. This disparity has raised alarms about the exploitation of sensitive information, which is highly valuable for pharmaceutical companies developing new drugs.”

“ Any potential medications or vaccines developed using this data would not guarantee Zambia a share of the resulting profit. Similar data clauses previously prompted activists in Kenya to launch legal action against their government, and neighbouring Zimbabwe also abandoned talks with the US over identical privacy concerns.”

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/zambia-diplom ... id-1794390

[A_Gupta]

I remembered something and Google Gemini gave me this on asking it:


The incident you’re referring to is a cornerstone of U.S.-India relations in the 1960s, specifically during the 1965–1967 food crisis. It’s a period often called the "Ship-to-Mouth" era, where President Lyndon B. Johnson (LBJ) used food aid as a lever to force drastic changes in Indian policy.

The "Short-Tether" Policy (1965–1966)

When India faced back-to-back droughts and a massive famine, it became heavily dependent on U.S. wheat under the PL-480 (Food for Peace) program. LBJ, frustrated by India’s criticism of the Vietnam War and its state-led economic model, implemented a "short-tether" policy. Instead of signing long-term aid agreements, he authorized grain shipments on a month-to-month basis, sometimes keeping ships idling in the ocean until India agreed to certain conditions.

The Mineral Rights & "Operation Hardrock"

The specific "mineral rights" controversy center around a project called Operation Hardrock (1967).

The Deal: As part of the broader aid and development package (managed by USAID), the U.S. provided a $3.5 million loan and technical expertise for an airborne geophysical survey of India.

The Objective: The official goal was to help India locate deposits of non-ferrous metals like copper, zinc, and lead to reduce its import bill.

The Controversy: The survey was conducted by an American firm, Parsons Corporation, and the raw data was sent back to the U.S. for processing. This triggered a massive political firestorm in the Indian Parliament. Critics, led by leftist and nationalist politicians, accused the U.S. of:

Stealing Data: Claiming the U.S. was mapping India’s atomic minerals (thorium and uranium) for its own strategic use.

Resource Imperialism: Arguing that the U.S. was essentially demanding the right to "prospect" India's national wealth as a price for the wheat that was keeping the population from starving.

The Fertilizer Concessions (The Bechtel Deal)

Parallel to the mineral survey, the U.S. and the World Bank pressured India to liberalize its fertilizer industry.

The Demand: The U.S. pushed for a deal with the Bechtel Corporation (and others like Standard Oil) to build massive fertilizer plants.

The Strings: The U.S. insisted that these private American companies be given management control, a guaranteed 20% return on investment, and the right to set their own prices—effectively bypassing the Indian government's price controls.

The Result: Many in India saw this as a surrender of sovereign control over the country's "mineral" and agricultural future in exchange for emergency aid.

Summary Table: The 1966 "Strings Attached"


Condition U.S. Demand / Action Indian Perception
Food Aid Month-to-month "short-tether" shipments. Humanitarian blackmail.
Minerals Operation Hardrock: U.S.-led aerial survey. Espionage and theft of mineral data.
Industry Bechtel Deal: Private U.S. control of fertilizers. "Economic colonialism."
Currency Pressure to devalue the Rupee (done in June 1966). Surrender of economic sovereignty.

The "mineral rights" aspect is often cited by historians as one of the most intrusive conditions of the era because it involved physical mapping of the Indian subcontinent's sub-soil wealth by a foreign power during a moment of extreme national vulnerability.

[S_Madhukar]

TBH I think best to have aid as a transaction. Why should someone feel “obliged” ? There is a selfishness from the aid giver too.., that of good karma or blessings if it is not about $ . Even wild animals don’t like taking free food they will offer you something back. One can trade aid without being exploitative

[Lisa]

^^Nobody is asking Zambia to buy anything. This is aid. It is FREE OF CHARGE! If Zambia wants to spend its own money buying pharmaceuticals or making factories it is free to do so.

With regards to PL480, let me answer by firstly posting an article,

https://libcom.org/article/zambian-mine ... e-over-pay

"Two years ago – the police charged two Chinese managers with attempted murder after they had shot thirteen workers who were protesting over poor pay. The charges were dropped after the bosses bribed their victims."

They had used AK47's that they had lying around! Does anyone believe that this was the only excess? If you are OK with shooting 13 how were you treating these workers everyday? Anyone have a similar story of an American run facility in India?

I do not wish to even beginning to compare MMS actions with regards to opening up the Indian economy and its effects on Indian growth and what would have been the results if such an action had taken place under pressure 20 years before MMS. Sovereignty, really! The sovereignty that gave INC exclusive rights to allow their cronies to colonise Indians by preventing competition via a Licence Raj! For how many years were Indians colonised by INC after they sold their trope.

Lastly, lets all thank AIDs for giving Zambia leverage.

What Africans say, they live there. Lia means to Cry. Why Lia? Tell the American to go!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWlyIFQgfuo

[bala]

American diplomats were regularly buying Free American Medicines in pharmacies all over Zambia. Zambian government was repeatedly asked to stop this leakage and in effect declined as the correct pockets were being lined by this corruption. US said, fine, we will stop this aid. Now this all Trumps fault even though it was the Biden administration that found this corruption!

Translation - American taxpayers owe Zambian politicians a living.

This is the billy boy clinton formula, he did this in Haiti - no aid money ever went to the victims. Looting and corruption is ingrained in the Dems of the US. Every Dem state in the US is mismanaged deliberately, since looting is ingrained in the Dem ethos. Tis similar to India's Kangress party.

[bala]

Charles the king of UK came to the US to endear UK onto the US despite the stumbling fool Starmer of UK. He quietly accepted US bossing over world affairs and the UK supports the change. What a fall for the Britshits and their empire of old. DJT has told the collective Eurotards to stay away from the Iran hormuz stuff since their support was lukewarm and when the US clamped down on Iran they wanted to take credit.

King Charles Meets Trump, Old Order Collapses, Oil Game Shifts I Aadi Achint

[A_Gupta]

Yeah, right, Lisa, next convince us Iran’s being bombed into rubble is for the good of its people. Bechtel’s wanting to own fertilizer plants in India with 20% guaranteed profits would be so, so, so beneficial for India.

As a historical note, the railways in India were initially set up with guaranteed returns to English investors, but then the British Indian government found that the cost per kilometer was three times what it need be; and was embarrassed enough to end the program, and take over construction.

In modern times, Pakistan gave guaranteed returns to power plant investors, and now produces unaffordable electricity at twice the price in the rest of the subcontinent and keeps spiraling further and further into debt.

—-
What sovereignty and independence mean: Good or bad, the decisions affecting India are for Indians to make; and not some allegedly benevolent or well-intentioned people in Washington or London.

[Lisa]

This discussion began with Zambia and its feeling that stealing American Aid was OK. It is you that has brought in PL480, now Indian Railways and even Pukistan. So lets just cut to the chase, the original post. One question at a time. Does the American Government reserve the right to determine how its aid is used?

I have clearly said, " If Zambia wants to spend its own money buying pharmaceuticals or making factories it is free to do so.".

[chetak]

This discussion began with Zambia and its feeling that stealing American Aid was OK. It is you that has brought in PL480, now Indian Railways and even Pukistan. So lets just cut to the chase, the original post. One question at a time. Does the American Government reserve the right to determine how its aid is used?

I have clearly said, " If Zambia wants to spend its own money buying pharmaceuticals or making factories it is free to do so.".

Lisa ji,

Akums Drugs & Pharmaceuticals Limited, a major Indian CDMO, is partnering with the Zambian government in a joint venture (JV) to set up a pharmaceutical manufacturing facility in Zambia, marking its first plant outside India. The plant will produce tablets, capsules, liquids, and injectables, aiming to boost local manufacturing.

JV Structure: Akums holds a 51% stake, and the Government of Zambia holds 49%.

Production & Timeline: The facility is expected to produce nearly 150 different essential medicines, significantly reducing imports. Commercial production is projected to begin around Q3 FY28.

Significance: The project aligns with Zambia's aim to reach self-sufficiency in medicine supply by 2030 and strengthens regional health security.

This investment will serve the Zambian healthcare system and target exports within Southern Africa

this is the Indian (Modi) way, as opposed to cheen and amrika, So if India needs copper, cobalt, and lithium, needless to say that she will have first dibs, as also the goodwill of the zambian people

[Lisa]

Agree 100%. Zambia has every right to spend its own money however it wishes. India a perfect "Partner".

Now China, that a different matter, AK47 notwithstanding.

America, aid with strings, don't want don't take. Simple. Zambia can buy its own HIV drugs and if necessary the same Zambian ministers can steal these drugs rather than the Free American stock and sell them in those same pharmacies.

[chetak]

This would have mightily pissed off both the amrikis and the cheen

NKANI
17 May 2025 ·

ZAMBIA SIGNS JOINT VENTURE WITH INDIAN COMPANY START PRODUCING MEDICINES LOCALLY

The Government has signed a Joint Venture (JV) with one of Indian’s largest pharmaceutical comp

The deal was concluded on Thursday by a high-powered delegation led by Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet - Finance and Economic Development Dr. Siazongo Siakalenge which also included Ministry of Justice Permanent Secretary – Legal, Ms. Mwenya Bwalya, and Ministry of Health Permanent Secretary – Technical Services, Dr. Kennedy Lishimpi, among others.

Following the agreement, a groundbreaking ceremony to be officiated by President Hakainde Hichilema is earmarked for September this year while the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), which was represented by its Director General, Mr. Albert Halwampa, together with the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA), which was represented by Acting Director General, Dr. John Kachimba, have been tasked to facilitate other processes including registration.

Speaking after the signing of the Joint Venture Agreement, Dr. Siakalenge said the Zambian Government was grateful to Akums Drugs and Pharmaceuticals Limited for supporting its efforts of ensuring a steady supply of essential medicines in Zambia.

“Under this agreement, Akums will localize the production of drugs and medicines. Akums is world class and currently has 13 facilities supplying over 60 countries and employing over 15, 000 people. They are coming to Zambia to put up the 14th plant, the first of its kind outside India. Once that happens, Zambia will no longer be required to import drugs.

“According to the agreement that has been signed today, close to 150 different products will be produced in Zambia, making us almost self-sufficient in the acquisition of such drugs and medicines locally. We are looking forward to a day when Akums comes to Zambia to participate in the ground breaking ceremony within the month of September this year. That will be a great day for all of us. We have been engaged in the discussions with Akums in the last two years and today, all those negotiations have been successfully concluded,” Dr. Siakalenge said.

And Akums Drugs and Pharmaceuticals Limited President – International Business, Mr. Ashok Saroha, said setting up the first pharmaceutical manufacturing plant outside India would be the first step towards turning his company into a global manufacturer.

Mr. Saroha said his company is ready to make Zambia self-reliant in all essential medicines and drugs.

“For us, this is a very special moment when we have concluded our discussions for setting up a pharmaceutical manufacturing plant in Zambia. This will be a special manufacturing facility because all of us have worked very hard in this direction to make this happen. It will be a special facility because it is going to be our first facility outside India. Since we started this discussion with you two years ago, our management has been looking towards moving out of India.

“We look forward to a date when we will land in Zambia and participate in this groundbreaking ceremony. We want to see such kinds of countries becoming self-reliant in terms of fulfilling their needs for essential medicines. This is beyond commerce,” Mr. Saroha said.

Meanwhile, Dr. Lishimpi, who signed on behalf of the Zambian Government, said reaching an agreement on the Joint Venture was a big milestone and a game changer in the supply of medicines in Zambia.

“It is a big milestone for us and we are really grateful to Akums giving us this opportunity to change the scenario back home to make affordable, efficacious, and quality medicines available for our Zambians,” Dr. Lishimpi said.

Issued by Bennie Mundando
First Secretary (Press & Tourism)
Zambia High Commission
New Delhi – India
Phone: +919599144266
Email: [email protected]

[V_Raman]

India should get back the key API industries it lost for pharma asap.

[A_Gupta]

The court had to issue an order for the defense attorneys to be able to meet privately with the accused WHCA shooter. The government also so far has not shared the information they are required by law to share with the defense team.

[A_Gupta]

This discussion began with Zambia and its feeling that stealing American Aid was OK. It is you that has brought in PL480, now Indian Railways and even Pukistan. So lets just cut to the chase, the original post. One question at a time. Does the American Government reserve the right to determine how its aid is used?

I have clearly said, " If Zambia wants to spend its own money buying pharmaceuticals or making factories it is free to do so.".

Attaching conditions to what started as humanitarian aid is unacceptable.

The point also is that this is not just Zambia (other African countries such as Kenya) and not just 2026 (India in 1965-67). Which is entirely pertinent to the issue with Zambia.

I don’t know why you brought in INC, MMS, etc. - that was totally besides the point. You were justifying American bullying because Indian governance was far from optimal. On a Bharat Rakshak forum that has to slapped down at once.

[Lisa]

"Attaching conditions to what started as humanitarian aid is unacceptable."

Really, Zambian recipients are going to dictate terms to corn huskers in the mid-west how to spend their money!

More accurately, Zambian ministers are going to steal and privately sell medicines intended for poor and deprived patients in Zambia and patients meanwhile can quietly die. American donor who is aware of this practice can shut up and pay up.

You mentioned Kenya and yet you chose to ignore the quoted video above where an actual President of Kenya is saying exactly what I am saying,

"Crying oh I don't know Trump has removed money he said he's not giving us any more money why are you crying it's not your government is not your country he has he has no he has no reason to to give you anything I mean you don't pay taxes in America he's appealing to his people"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWlyIFQgfuo

[A_Gupta]

So giving the US copper is going to fix this problem.
—-

Regarding g your talking points: AI demolishes them.

This is a $250 million per year program.

Historically, Zambia’s Ministry of Health (MOH) has faced significant scrutiny. While a major 2010 scandal involved the embezzlement of $350,000, modern oversight by the Global Fund and USAID has tightened considerably.

Audit Findings (2024-2025): Recent audits from the USAID Office of Inspector General (OIG) for the 2023-2024 period show relatively low "questioned costs" in specific implementation partners. For instance, a financial audit of John Snow Health (JSH) Zambia—a major USAID partner—identified only $20,872 in ineligible questioned costs for the 2023 fiscal year.

Internal Controls: Most recent Global Fund audits suggest that while "material instances of noncompliance" occur, they are often related to administrative bottlenecks rather than systemic theft. The Global Fund's 2025 results indicate that expenditure rates for HIV grants in Zambia remain high (around 91–94%), suggesting that the majority of funds are being utilized as intended.
—-

As of early 2026, the most significant "leakage" is not defined by corruption, but by the loss of progress due to the U.S. foreign assistance pause and subsequent funding cuts initiated in 2025.

The 53% Funding Cliff: Projections for 2026 indicate a 53% cut in health funding compared to 2024 levels. Critics and health activists argue this represents a massive "leakage" of previous investments, as infrastructure built over 20 years (clinics, supply chains, and trained staff) is now being abandoned or underfunded.

Testing and Treatment Drop-offs: Because PEPFAR provides roughly 84% of Zambia’s HIV financing, the 2025 funding disruptions led to a measurable drop in services:

Testing: Declined from 21.9 million tests in Q4 2024 to 17.2 million in Q4 2025.

New Diagnoses: Fell from 385,000 to 307,000 over the same period.

Human Capital: The 2026 Draft Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) requires Zambia to hire 40,000 new health workers to maintain the program—a 50% increase that experts call "unrealistic" given the country's debt-constrained budget.

3. The "Hidden Price" (Resource Leakage)

A leaked draft of the 2026-2030 MOU between the U.S. and Zambia has introduced a new form of "leakage" where aid is reportedly tied to external interests:

Mining Concessions: The deal allegedly predicates health financing on arrangements that open Zambia’s mining industry to U.S. interests.

Data Sovereignty: The agreement requires Zambia to share health specimens and epidemic data with Washington for 10 to 25 years, a condition health economists describe as an extractive "raw deal" compared to other African nations.

[Lisa]

If Zambia wants the aid Zambia will do as it is told. Period.

I do not need AI to make an argument. I can speak for myself.

[A_Gupta]

Lastly, US can withdraw its aid. That is its right.
But extortion is not its right. Give aid without conditions or don’t give aid.

Or convert to what the new intent is: a commercial contract - we will give you $250 million per year to do with what you wish, including purchasing HIV medication in return for mining and data concessions”.

[A_Gupta]

Congressman Adam Smith Blasts Pete Hegseth Over Iran War Strategy
Transcript:

Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate those opening remarks.

I want to start by agreeing with you on the last point. Our troops have performed incredibly well in the last 15 months. They have been asked to do more than anyone expected and they have demonstrated the incredible capability of the United States military. I think we should all recognize that even if we question the strategy, some of the decisions behind it, our troops deserve nothing but our praise for the incredible job that they have done. It has not been perfect. Certainly mistakes have been made, but we have demonstrated to the world that we have a highly capable military.

And I hear the chairman on the, you know, need for an increased budget. I think there's a whole lot of needs across the United States of America that would have the same attitude about health care, about education, about infrastructure. But the problem is we have a $40 trillion debt and we insist on cutting taxes for absolutely everybody. So we reduce the amount of revenue that is available to that.

We also have to have a national security strategy that lives within a sound fiscal picture. Most experts would say that the most profound threat to our national security right now is exactly that is our fiscal picture. How are we going to continue to be able to afford to fund the things we need to fund as we run the debt ever higher?

The other thing worth worrying about is the Pentagon has not yet passed an audit. If we give them what is roughly a 50 to 60% increase, is that money going to be well spent? We have every reason to doubt that.

Now, I will say and I praise the chairman, this committee, and in a bipartisan bicameral way, we have tackled the problem of acquisition reform. I think last year's bill put us on a good trajectory to get to the point where we can in fact innovate faster at scale. I also believe the Pentagon has been working on that. We've had many meetings with Deputy Secretary Fineberg who is focused on that. But we got a long way to go.

Can the Pentagon really absorb another five-six hundred billion, depending on what the supplemental and the reconciliation package are? I don't think so. We need to pay as much attention to how we're spending the money as to how much we're spending. And we never seem to do that.

But the larger problem is the strategy that has been put before us. I looked through the secretary's remarks and I've heard you give speeches before about this about how realism is our strategy. And I find that absurd. Given what we are doing, you can say a lot of things about the strategy, but calling it realistic.

We started a fullscale war in the Middle East against Iran to try to reshape the Middle East. Now, we can talk about that in a bunch of different ways, but it is the exact opposite of realism. And in fact, starting wars in the Middle East that get out of control and lead us to have far greater costs for the benefits is one of the cornerstones of the unrealistic strategy that this administration has criticized over and over and over again. And yet here we are in a full-scale Middle East war.

And we seen the costs of that. Certainly at the top of that list is 13 service members killed and hundreds wounded. But it goes way beyond that that thousands of civilians have been killed. Over a dozen countries now have been dragged into this war in one way or another. The Israel-Lebanon war has exploded since this war started. We now have a conflict between the Shia militias in Iraq and Kurdistan that is straining, to put it mildly, our relationship with Iraq and also causing greater chaos throughout the Middle East.

We've seen the impact on the economy certainly here at home. Gas prices up by over a dollar. The impact of the fertilizer increase is going to come later as food prices skyrocket. But what it's happening to us is a small part of what's happening to the rest of the world. Certainly, the Middle East's economy has been tossed up in the air, but dozens of countries are rationing gasoline as we speak and experiencing extreme economic pain because of this war. So, there's nothing realistic about that.

And one of the big questions that we need to get answered today is where is this going? what is the plan to achieve our objectives? We've seen the cost and the cost is very very high. All we keep hearing on the objectives is we keep seeing all of the targets that we have struck and again that is an incredible accomplishment from a tactical standpoint. I think the proficiency of our military has been on display, but we're not in this for a tactical advantage. We're in this to fundamentally change Iran.

And as we sit here today, Iran's nuclear program is exactly what it was before this war started. They have not lost their capacity to inflict pain. They still have a ballistic missile program. They're still able to blockade the Strait of Hormuz and have the ships that are capable of doing that. What is the plan to get that to change?

And most disturbingly, the president keeps telling us that it's over. What was it? A week ago, Friday, the president announced that Iran had agreed to give up their nuclear program, to give up their ballistic missile program, to stop support for terrorist groups, to reopen the straight of Hormuz. The only problem with that is literally none of that was true. It was he was completely making it. It wasn't Iran hadn't even agreed to meet with us, as became embarrassingly clear as the day spun out and poor JD Vance had to keep going back and forth to the airport. We never even had a meeting. So wish fulfillment is not really a strategy.

I mean maybe the president thinks he's doing some sort of Jedi mind trick and he can tell Iran you will give up your nuclear weapons and they automatically will. But that's not working. So what we need to hear today is what is going to work? We have 50,000 troops in the region who are still at risk. How are those tactical victories going to translate into some sort of strategic success?

And by the way, this is one of the things that realism recognizes. You can win a whole lot of little small battles and lose the war, which is why you don't stumble into the war in the first place. But at the same time, we're doing all of this on our own as we increasingly push away all of our allies. Sometimes just because we want to do what we want to do, we don't want to have to consult them. Sometimes just gratuitously insulting them.

I mean, in the middle of this war where we were asking NATO to come join us, the president took time out to insult President Macron and his wife. Okay, how is that helping us to try and belittle everybody in the world?

And for the people who are criticizing NATO over this war, I will remind people that NATO is a defensive alliance. What that means is every country in it pledges to defend a country if attacked. And when we were attacked on 9/11, that's what NATO did. They put in article 5 and for 20 years they fought beside us. NATO is not if any one of the countries decides to unilaterally and unwisely start a war precipitously that everyone else is supposed to join. That's not the way it works. So braiding and belittling our allies after we did that and driving them ever further away from us. How is that realistic?

Not only are we going to try to reshape the Middle East, but we're going to do it alone while we're pushing everybody away from us. And then we have other tools in our arsenal. You see that those numbers on the budget, but the State Department is really important. Development is really important. These are ways to achieve our ends and we have moved away from that. We got rid of the entire US ID literally causing the starvation of children in countries where we had pledged to provide food you know causing massive health care disruptions, people literally dying because we've cut that off.

In diplomacy we have sidelined again the entire world. France and the UK have brought together 44 different countries that have an interest in trying to open up the Strait of Hormuz. We've pushed them all aside and then we've even pushed aside our own diplomatic core. We have a very very talented State Department. I praise today the talent of our military and I will stand by that. They deserve that praise. Our diplomatic corps deserves that praise too. But we've shoved them all to the side in favor of two real estate guys who are going to go negotiate all the deals in the world which to date by the way has yielded exactly nothing.

So there's nothing realistic about starting a war in the Middle East, going it alone, and pushing aside all diplomacy and all develop and all other tools in our arsenal. And on top of that, of course, we also want to dominate the entire Western Hemisphere, including apparently annexing Canada and invading Greenland. How is any of that realistic?

And then and then the administration comes before us and ask for what is a hopelessly unrealistic budget in this environment. Back in that chart there when we were showing how much money we were spending on defense, we had a balanced budget. We had a surplus many years. We don't have that anymore. So call this strategy whatever you want to call it. But please don't call it realism. It's not.

And forgive me. It reminds me of one of my favorite lines from A Princess Bride.It's a tense morning. I want to lighten it up a little bit. Uh when the guy keeps saying inconceivable when things happen. And finally the guy says to him,You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means. I don't think we know what the word realism means. So please, can we not have the realism conversation? Let's have the conversation about what the strategy actually is.

And I'm sure you have a different definition of it than I do. But as I look at it, the strategy seems to be to use as much violence, as much threats, as much coercion as possible to bend the world to our will. I think that is a very dangerous strategy because one of the oldest cliches in the military is the enemy gets a vote. And we may think that we can stand up and talk tough and talk about how strong we are and how we're burying our enemies and they're begging for a deal. We can do that all day long. All right, but the enemy gets a vote. They don't have to do what we tell them to do.

And meanwhile, that coercive, violent strategy undermines our credibility in the world because the chairman is absolutely right. And this is one area where I strongly disagree with the folks on the far left who say that we don't really face any threats that the US is a malign influence in the world and always has been. I don't agree with that. China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthies,a variety of other transnational terrorist groups, including yes, naroterrorists and human traffickers over here. They all are trying to weaken us. All right?

They don't want a rules-based order. They want to play by their own rules. They want to push us aside. We want to be the side that stands up for the rules. But if what we're saying to the rest of the world is stick with us because we're a better bully than China? We coerce countries more effectively, that undercuts the very message we're trying to spread to build the coalition we need to be successful. I also worry about the values that we are showing the world when the president threatens to kill off an entire civilization. That that is the message coming out of the United States of America. If we are going to be this big powerful force that throws our weight around the world, the world wants to know at a minimum that we're doing it for the right reasons and with a sense of values to protect people, not to destroy entire civilizations.

And we all hear that and we all go, "Well, gosh, you know, he probably doesn't mean it." Well, that is so reassuring, okay, that he's just making it up. was supposed to be the United States of America. I grew up on stories of the US at the end of World War II being the country that the Germans wanted to surrender to, not the Russians, because they knew they could trust our values. We don't seem to care about those values. No rules of engagement. Give them no quarter. All right? That is not who we are supposed to be.

And just one final point on that. The girl school that got hit in the first days of this war. There is absolutely no question at this point what happened. We made a mistake and that happens in war. We identified this target based on earlier charts and yet two months after it happened, we refuse to say anything about it, giving the world the impression that we just don't care. We do not care about the casualties and the chaos that is caused by our war. and we should care even if we want to prosecute that war.

Now, I agree with the chairman. We need a strategy. We face the most complex threat environment that we've faced in a very, very long time. So, we really want to hear from the administration. Don't give us this realism chest thumping stuff. What are we really going to do to meet those threats to deal with the challenges we face?

And I'll close just by saying one of the other ironies of this of course is we have a great example in the world right now of what our strategy should be and where our values should be and that's Ukraine. And I'm really curious, you know, here we are. We roll out the red carpet for Vladimir Putin. We belittle and insult President Zelensky in the White House. He has no cards, right? Well, here we are a year after that. Looks like he had a couple cards to play because Ukraine is actually winning against Russia. Ukraine, a sovereign democracy, standing up against a brutal, oppressive, coercive dictatorship and we can't even bring ourselves on a consistent basis to say we are with Ukraine and we are against what Putin is doing and stand up and support them.

So I want to see that strategy to meet the complex threat environment that we have. But simply saying we've already won and boasting and bragging and trying to belittle and insult the entire world, that's not going to get us to the posture that we need. So I hope we have a conversation about how we can build a strategy that makes sense and is actually realistic.

With that, I yield back.

[Lisa]

Lastly, US can withdraw its aid. That is its right.

Finally, you concede the point!

[A_Gupta]

I never denied it. But if it makes you feel happy, so be it.

[bala]

What a gasbag this dude of a Congressman Adam Smith is justifying Ukraine involvement by the US while decrying Iran war. The casualities in Ukraine far exceed those in Iran you moron of a congressman. Then he cries about US deficit which was increased by another 20 T by Obummer (more than 10 T by him alone) and his side kick Bidenwa. France and UK are pussycat nations with nothing to contribute other than more hot air, Charles the king tucked his tail and pleaded with the US recently in congress to be relevant in the world. The amount of idiots in the US far exceeds other nation's idiots. Suited and booted and making irrelevant comments like he is in charge.

[chetak]

What the amrikis are trying to do in eyeraan, to russia via that idiot zelensky and so casually devastating the economies of europe and the UK in the process, to India, by way of regime changes, in nepal, lanka and beediland, by instigating the pakis to terrorise cashmere, to stealing the country of venezuela and her oil, and to the GCC states they had fooled and looted by selling them useless weapons et al, was called gunboat "diplomacy" in the colonial days

their bullying of zambia falls in the same category

the amrikis are finding it difficult to handle cheen and India, and the aussies have become wary, just like NZ

There was no need for the amrikis to do all this. A global blowback is surely building, one that will bite the amrikis hard in the butt

they have exposed their inherent limitations, and their great fear of the body bags of their own soldiers returning home, even as they mercilessly bomb millions of non amriki civilians into oblivion

they are renting paki soldiers to do their fighting (and dying) for them

their earlier bombastic claims of rules based global order was just so much gobar gas that they were venting hoping that some dope would buy it but none did

Their geopolitical, military, and security provider reputation is in tatters and no one can / will trust them any more

They have alienated friends and allies alike

One fears that this self inflicted damage to amrika by its current leadership, could be very long lasting, if not permanent

[Vayutuvan]

It is permanent.

[Manish_P]

It is permanent.

Nothing is permanent, sir. Absolute disaster in the short term definitely. Long lasting friction and mistrust probably. Permanent animosity unlikely.

Remember that we had almost forgiven, but not forgotten, 1971.

All relations between nations are ultimately transactional.

[bala]

This chat cautions India on relationships with the US, either short term or long term.

The DJT phenomena is nothing new, the US agenda via CIA, Pentagon is being followed by all El Presidentes of US. The close entanglement with the US in various areas needs to be re-evaluated afresh. The bonhomie is an illusion and the sooner Indians realize the actual situation behind the scenes the better. Google and apple are getting all information from phones operated in India. The GCCs are working for international companies to refine their products. Software area is another. Strategic strengths of the big boys is really a battleground and they are not going to yield to any competitors who infringe upon them.

[Rudradev]

There was no need for the amrikis to do all this. A global blowback is surely building, one that will bite the amrikis hard in the butt

Chetak ji,

I agree there was no reason for the US to inflict as much reputational damage on itself as it has recently. Unfortunately/fortunately for them, they remain so far ahead of the other 194 nations that they will be able to limit the effects. For every nation that stands up in opposition to them, there are likely three or four poodles who will seize any opportunity to curry favour, roll out the red carpet, and give the GOTUS whatever it wants in terms of natural resources, geographical access, opportunities for grift etc.

Yes, more nations are expressing open opposition to the US today than since the cold war ended, and many of them are middle or large powers. Meanwhile many of the willing proxies are smaller or even insignificant powers on their own. But that may be all the American empire needs in order to maintain its global security paradigm. As expressed by John Mearsheimer, this paradigm is: (1) maintain absolute hegemony in your own region of the world (2) maintain the capacity to prevent any other nation from achieving similar hegemony in its own region of the world.

Finally as Manish ji says, international relations are ultimately transactional. The appearance of a democratic system in the US gives the permanent policy apparatus a lot of freedom to do whatever it needs while knowing it will receive implicit 'forgiveness' when a new administration comes in. Thus when George W Bush was replaced by Obama, most of the world quickly 'forgave' the excesses of the Iraq war. Naturally such 'forgiveness' has nothing to do with personal morality-- it is simply a pragmatic choice that countries make because they all want to continue trading with the global economic superpower and welcome any pretext for improved diplomatic relations.

[Vayutuvan]

It is permanent.

Nothing is permanent, sir. Absolute disaster in the short term definitely. Long lasting friction and mistrust probably. Permanent animosity unlikely.

@Manish_P ji, the economic damage is permanent. The US as a whole has to reduce its standards of living. It is not going to matter to the very wealthy.

All other effects are secondary but this is the prime mover. Trump is trying to slow the decline now by delivering a few shocks to the world system. It is similar to what is called simulated annealing to in nonlinear optimization. Works in game theory too. Once in a while, one of the players suddenly becomes irrational and lose not too small a portion of their tokens to make other players to lower their guard.

[S_Madhukar]

Well the deep wells of $$ are in West, they will happily prop up Unkil as long as it delivers oil , minerals and assets to them. Unless the rest of the world has its own financial system, payments and technology unfortunately we will have to suffer this. Plus Lizards have proven to be bigger cry babies. The only hope is a UKisation of US, with loads of freeloaders to slow it down for the long term …. Another is a real good clash in Taiwan … After Eyeran I doubt anyone else has balls to take them on even discretely.
I am afraid after Eyeran they might pick on someone else, could be Russia which will be a joint project with EU … I worry a pseudo fascist order in the US may be rising unless Dems come back

[bala]

It is similar to what is called simulated annealing to in nonlinear optimization. Works in game theory too. Once in a while, one of the players suddenly becomes irrational and lose not too small a portion of their tokens to make other players to lower their guard.

Ah, I remember simulated annealing and tis a good analogy to what DJT is doing. The US Deep state is closely behind such moves. The oil trail is a long continuum of dems and repubs el presidentes - remember Iraq, Libya etc. The initial monopoly was standard oil which was broken up but the splintered ones are back into controlling oil flow.

India has to suffer these shocks. The sooner India gets to thorium energy, renewable energy, including Green Hydrogen, solar, wind these oil shocks will buffet the economy. Currently India is consuming around 5 million barrels a day of which 85% is imported. India needs to discover more oil & gas resources, Andaman & Nicobar is yet to produce any oil. If the energy situation is stablized, then India need not worry too much. Another area India needs to put more effort is in the defence arena - engines and truly Atma Nirbharta in weapons and munition.