India tests Prithvi based ABM-2
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- BRFite
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Interceptor apart, I am thinking about the positive implications this has on Prithvi's own guidance control. What percentage of the CEP # is attributable to the guidance error bars in the boost phase itself/less than 60km altitude. Or does all of the CEP accumulate after that.to ensure that two things flying at several times the speed of sound actually collide with each other?
Kanson,
The dummy test is the baseline.
Whoever comes in and says India you should buy our ABM stuff has to show his wares are atleast this good in a dummy test. If they can't we are not buying.
Radar was used to verify not to guide.
We don't have what it takes to detect. We don't have what we need to see what we need to see and after that we need a lot of integration to actually process what we do see into a form that can be used to carry out intercepts.
Was it an Akash, was it a trishul? who knows what it was. The Pioneer leader should find something better to do with his hands.
Pradeepe,
Thank you, that is exactly the point, better control over launch conditions and flight performance suggests improvements in CEP.
Our friends in Fatehjung are busy painting the latest imports but what is their CEP and how are they going to prove it?
Ofcourse they could always unilaterally withdraw from Siachen instead.
The dummy test is the baseline.
Whoever comes in and says India you should buy our ABM stuff has to show his wares are atleast this good in a dummy test. If they can't we are not buying.
Radar was used to verify not to guide.
We don't have what it takes to detect. We don't have what we need to see what we need to see and after that we need a lot of integration to actually process what we do see into a form that can be used to carry out intercepts.
Was it an Akash, was it a trishul? who knows what it was. The Pioneer leader should find something better to do with his hands.
Pradeepe,
Thank you, that is exactly the point, better control over launch conditions and flight performance suggests improvements in CEP.
Our friends in Fatehjung are busy painting the latest imports but what is their CEP and how are they going to prove it?
Ofcourse they could always unilaterally withdraw from Siachen instead.
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- BRFite
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Victor said
But then even if we dont have good detection system to track a launch and then shoot down a missile, we atleast made the two missiles fly in a controlled collusion.
We have now two projects to work for decades make the Tejas fly with local engine and TMD system which can track a launch and destroy before it reaches the target.
Paarklam.
This exactlt what our front line batsmen cant do when McGrath and Brett Lee bowl at slow speed of 95 MPH with paddle like bat to the cherry!Even to a non-technical person, it should be clear that even if the missiles flew in previously known trajectories, it would be like trying to make two toothpicks held in ones hands hit each other head-on in a quick swipe with your eyes closed.
But then even if we dont have good detection system to track a launch and then shoot down a missile, we atleast made the two missiles fly in a controlled collusion.
We have now two projects to work for decades make the Tejas fly with local engine and TMD system which can track a launch and destroy before it reaches the target.
Paarklam.
the bigger deal actually is that mushy has lost another blustering red line option, or atleast its assurance to cause us harm has been eroded significantly - or threatens to do so.
mush can't take it for granted that he can lobb nukes willy nilly at us and hope to hit something to make the cowering yindu shiver in dhoti and back off without total escalation - in a way it will force them to go strategic and then they know we have overkill against them
now even mush must have enough brain cells left to figure out that last point
mush can't take it for granted that he can lobb nukes willy nilly at us and hope to hit something to make the cowering yindu shiver in dhoti and back off without total escalation - in a way it will force them to go strategic and then they know we have overkill against them
now even mush must have enough brain cells left to figure out that last point
I remember the days when we could not write the required codes for any programming home work. We just fool our instructor just by writing something which would give us required output for some "fixed range" of input and take those output for verification of our codes.
Same way I think after so much bashing of DRDO (so many faliure in past), they have come up with a very similar idea. It wont surprise me if they have lowered the speed of the target prithvi for this particular test and might have manipulated other missile parameters which would be completely different from an incoming "enemy" missile.
It was just an image makeover, not a breakthrough.
Same way I think after so much bashing of DRDO (so many faliure in past), they have come up with a very similar idea. It wont surprise me if they have lowered the speed of the target prithvi for this particular test and might have manipulated other missile parameters which would be completely different from an incoming "enemy" missile.
It was just an image makeover, not a breakthrough.
Holy crap !!!.
This Prithvi exercise is only a technology demonstrator. To demonstrate the technology, all Companies or Agencies use controlled enviroments, implying that it is always a SUCCESS !!! So don't believe any crap anybody throws at you - THIS IS NOT AN ABM SYSTEM.
In reality, Prithvi-X is not the weapon or the platform for an ABM system. ABM's rely on a massive and complex network of radars and early warning systems - Which we do not have in place or will have in place for the next 10-20 years. ABM missiles boasts of speeds over Mach 4 - to make Prithvi that kind of missile would be like transforming an elephant into a race-horse.
In reality, Prithvi-X is not the weapon or the platform for an ABM system. ABM's rely on a massive and complex network of radars and early warning systems - Which we do not have in place or will have in place for the next 10-20 years. ABM missiles boasts of speeds over Mach 4 - to make Prithvi that kind of missile would be like transforming an elephant into a race-horse.
Re: Holy crap !!!.
mods ban him right now.crapette wrote:This Prithvi exercise is only a technology demonstrator. To demonstrate the technology, all Companies or Agencies use controlled enviroments, implying that it is always a SUCCESS !!! So don't believe any crap anybody throws at you - THIS IS NOT AN ABM SYSTEM.
In reality, Prithvi-X is not the weapon or the platform for an ABM system. ABM's rely on a massive and complex network of radars and early warning systems - Which we do not have in place or will have in place for the next 10-20 years. ABM missiles boasts of speeds over Mach 4 - to make Prithvi that kind of missile would be like transforming an elephant into a race-horse.
not only hes wrong, but he dont have any bloody technical information.
prithvi is modified to carry a solid stage with 16 tonne thrust.
do you know that thrust if shoved in your back can fly you more than 4 mach per seconds?
what radars are you talking about?
NOOB.
I was under the impression that the output of all the patriot v/s scud matches was whitewashed with a pliant media. This is why PAC III had so many doubters even today.
Sudhanshu's allegation has been made against DRDO for a while now. Somehow when a foreign supplier demonstrates how his super advanced missile can hit a old Mig 15 flying subsonic on a pre laid trajectory no one finds it in their veins to say anything like what Sudhanshu is saying now. All this investigative brilliance is reserved for DRDO's work only.
Kanson,
Yes there was integration. doesn't affect anything I said.
Sudhanshu's allegation has been made against DRDO for a while now. Somehow when a foreign supplier demonstrates how his super advanced missile can hit a old Mig 15 flying subsonic on a pre laid trajectory no one finds it in their veins to say anything like what Sudhanshu is saying now. All this investigative brilliance is reserved for DRDO's work only.
Kanson,
Yes there was integration. doesn't affect anything I said.
pradeepe wrote:Interceptor apart, I am thinking about the positive implications this has on Prithvi's own guidance control. What percentage of the CEP # is attributable to the guidance error bars in the boost phase itself/less than 60km altitude. Or does all of the CEP accumulate after that.to ensure that two things flying at several times the speed of sound actually collide with each other?
Badais to all!!
Hmm, now the missile can be guided accurately to the Mussharrafs of Crore Commanders.
Re: Holy crap !!!.
How come there has been deluge of such posts in the recent times on BR. crapette, your name going to be changed soon - why do not you read what the experiment was and let us know what it is rather than posting your expert opinion of what it is not? If you know what India has or does not have for the next 20 years please post some proof and get some BR methai.crapette wrote:This Prithvi exercise is only a technology demonstrator. To demonstrate the technology, all Companies or Agencies use controlled enviroments, implying that it is always a SUCCESS !!! So don't believe any crap anybody throws at you - THIS IS NOT AN ABM SYSTEM.
In reality, Prithvi-X is not the weapon or the platform for an ABM system. ABM's rely on a massive and complex network of radars and early warning systems - Which we do not have in place or will have in place for the next 10-20 years. ABM missiles boasts of speeds over Mach 4 - to make Prithvi that kind of missile would be like transforming an elephant into a race-horse.
Just because you passed the exams by cheating doesn't make every Indian a fraud, but this is something that no Indian seems to grasp easily.
We are seeing the same kind of responses appear that we saw after Shakti 1998 except now BJP is where Congress was.
Yes ABM system is much more than just one test like a deployed nuclear arsenal is much more than a few blasts at Pokharan.
So what?
How is that relevant?
DRDO has done what no one would give it credit for.
It is time to rejoice.
We are seeing the same kind of responses appear that we saw after Shakti 1998 except now BJP is where Congress was.
Yes ABM system is much more than just one test like a deployed nuclear arsenal is much more than a few blasts at Pokharan.
So what?
How is that relevant?
DRDO has done what no one would give it credit for.
It is time to rejoice.
crapette, you are now carapette . ( Forum Guidelinescarapette wrote:Kanson, where did you get this incorrect information?Kanson wrote:crapette, burnout speed for Prithvi is reported to be in the range 4 mach. How much more you want ?
Dude you didnt explained what i said, you know if your from other nation i dont have a problem but talk with facts in hand.carapette wrote:Kanson, where did you get this incorrect information?Kanson wrote:crapette, burnout speed for Prithvi is reported to be in the range 4 mach. How much more you want ?
I can prove you this time completely wrong and i normally dont curse around.
so dont try to waste the discussion, if you have something to contribute do so.
read the whole reports you'll have entire idea.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Prithvi.html
b] The mach 5 reference is descent. As a ABM there is no trajectory associated with descent.
[/quote]
a] Does not imply speed of mach 4; mach numbers are different for different altitudes; the Mach 4 statement is very vague.Prithvi-II missile typically reaches a maximum altitude of approximately 80 km (Mach 4), thus spending most of the flight time in the upper reaches of the atmosphere. The large delta wings and body lift is used to generate additional lift during ascent and descent, allowing it to overcome the range restriction associated with pure ballistic flight. During descent, the large delta-wings in the mid-section generates lift allowing the missile to glide and fly (Mach 5) on a trajectory different from the predictable trajectory of a pure ballistic missile and ends in a steep descent at nearly 80° for superior CEP (see Prithvi trajectory diagram above). Prithvi-I ascends to peak speed of 900m/sec when the thrust is cutoff and it raises to an altitude of 30Km before it glides to the target it. Prithvi-II does not limit the peak velocity and it also has larger fuel load.
b] The mach 5 reference is descent. As a ABM there is no trajectory associated with descent.
[/quote]
[/quote]carapette wrote:http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Prithvi.htmla] Does not imply speed of mach 4; mach numbers are different for different altitudes; the Mach 4 statement is very vague.Prithvi-II missile typically reaches a maximum altitude of approximately 80 km (Mach 4), thus spending most of the flight time in the upper reaches of the atmosphere. The large delta wings and body lift is used to generate additional lift during ascent and descent, allowing it to overcome the range restriction associated with pure ballistic flight. During descent, the large delta-wings in the mid-section generates lift allowing the missile to glide and fly (Mach 5) on a trajectory different from the predictable trajectory of a pure ballistic missile and ends in a steep descent at nearly 80° for superior CEP (see Prithvi trajectory diagram above). Prithvi-I ascends to peak speed of 900m/sec when the thrust is cutoff and it raises to an altitude of 30Km before it glides to the target it. Prithvi-II does not limit the peak velocity and it also has larger fuel load.
b] The mach 5 reference is descent. As a ABM there is no trajectory associated with descent.
I clearly answered your dumb question,
Second stage was used which is new,
please please go behind and read the things.
The second stage DRDO developed it can give it a thrust of 16 tonnes.
that explains your answer.
ABM has no trajectory associated with descent? what do you mean by this the trajectory is calculated by the radar and the ABM is scrambled into that way.
Joey,joey wrote:Dude you didnt explained what i said, you know if your from other nation i dont have a problem but talk with facts in hand.
I can prove you this time completely wrong and i normally dont curse around.
so dont try to waste the discussion, if you have something to contribute do so.
read the whole reports you'll have entire idea.
take to the woods...
If you don't want to read my postings you don't have to; Honestly.
Nothing will satisfy you chaps. If you think the likes of Saraswat and co would commit fraud, it speaks more about what you dont know about the BM program, then about them.Sudhanshu wrote:I remember the days when we could not write the required codes for any programming home work. We just fool our instructor just by writing something which would give us required output for some "fixed range" of input and take those output for verification of our codes.
Same way I think after so much bashing of DRDO (so many faliure in past), they have come up with a very similar idea. It wont surprise me if they have lowered the speed of the target prithvi for this particular test and might have manipulated other missile parameters which would be completely different from an incoming "enemy" missile.
It was just an image makeover, not a breakthrough.
Last edited by JCage on 29 Nov 2006 03:22, edited 1 time in total.
DRDO and its scientists have far too much to lose by either claiming a foreign product as homegrown or falsifying tests.
The foreign arms lobbies have delivered their liafas and all the media knives are out for the DRDO. Problem the critics face is that this ABM interception is a big deal.. really hard technology... makes it difficult to adopt the paki "dodo" moniker when they've done something this difficult
The foreign arms lobbies have delivered their liafas and all the media knives are out for the DRDO. Problem the critics face is that this ABM interception is a big deal.. really hard technology... makes it difficult to adopt the paki "dodo" moniker when they've done something this difficult
Gerard just lok at fannes post.Gerard wrote:DRDO and its scientists have far too much to lose by either claiming a foreign product as homegrown or falsifying tests.
The foreign arms lobbies have delivered their liafas and all the media knives are out for the DRDO. Problem the critics face is that this ABM interception is a big deal.. really hard technology... makes it difficult to adopt the paki "dodo" moniker when they've done something this difficult
Secret notes - Scientist 1 - The ABM has worked. It was the 5th test of interception. The individual system tests have been challenging. The seeker had to be mounted many times on Trishul and Akash. The target towing according to press release was done by Lakshya (we know better) Many ‘Prithvi’ testes had verified the design success of the first stage of the n stage masala. The radar has been a great fusion of many Indian and other technologies. We acquired the Green pine and Antey radars many years ago and we have fused that technology with many home grown ones. I am myself confused by many names that we gave them to hide this. We have been perfecting the interceptor radr for a long time. Every TSP no-dung have been successfully tracked. Rest of the details as agreed upon will not even be committed to paper.
That explains everything.
Akash is a success for sure.
and this is not a short project.