Cope India 2002

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Cope India 2002

Postby member_201 » 24 Oct 2002 04:04

This thread is to post all Cope India 2002 news articles and pictures. I request all members to repost their threads in here. This is a discussion & news thread. Enjoy!

Don't just drop In...dia!

http://www2.hickam.af.mil/news/2002/2002223.htm

PACAF troops participate in Cope India

http://www2.hickam.af.mil/news/2002/2002220.htm


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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby member_201 » 24 Oct 2002 04:09

Indo-US joint air combat exercises on the anvil

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?artid=26003426

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby member_201 » 24 Oct 2002 04:09





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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby member_201 » 24 Oct 2002 04:13


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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby vverma » 24 Oct 2002 04:20

I'd like to know more about the name for this exercise i.e. Cope India. Any significance to this name? What does it mean?

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby member_201 » 24 Oct 2002 04:22

Cope with India. Thus Cope India 2002 :lol:

George J

Re: Cope India 2002

Postby George J » 24 Oct 2002 05:44

Could somebody please tell me:

1) what is the purpose of this exercise? just jump of each other's planes, with each others gear?

2) what does jumping off planes in agra from a C130 teach a poor Indian Jawan? I can understand the americans getting to do jumps off sceanic locations, but what really is the Jawan learning?

3) what is the point of jumping off a C 130 and learning interoperablity? when us getting the C 130 is not happening in the near future nor are we barging into 'troubled spots' with hand in hand with the americans.

4) that i need to shuddup and watch smiling female aviator pics and sincerely hope that this will build 'relations', 'understanding' and make better all that stuff which most jingos seem to gripe about in the strategy forum.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Nikhil Shah » 24 Oct 2002 05:53

George,

Just because R-man has challanged me in the k-man's 10k post thread, I have decided to shift from j camp to w camp. So I am going to whine a lot about until I get my post counts over r-mans.

Ya do tell us, what will this exercise give the poor jawan with al this interoperability mumbo-jumbo?

George J

Re: Cope India 2002

Postby George J » 24 Oct 2002 06:05

No no....Nikhil..i m not whining..i m seriously asking. I m just curious and a bit cynical What makes you think that all i do is whine? :D

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby debjani » 24 Oct 2002 06:20

Originally posted by Nikhil Shah:

what will this exercise give the poor jawan with al this interoperability mumbo-jumbo?
I reckon it will allow each other to familarise with the different procedures of jumping from the aircraft since each type of aircraft has a different configuration.

And who knows what more. Anyone for guessing?

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Michael » 24 Oct 2002 06:22

Originally posted by Rakesh Koshy:
Keep off blondes, IAF men warned
Keep off the blondes? Well if they all look like this:

:)

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby debjani » 24 Oct 2002 06:22

I guess there is nothing extraordinary to WHINE in this thread. It will help build the empathy. After all, aircraft engines do whine. What ho?

Though this is not regarding the exercise, but it does simplistically explain why jt exs are carried out.
http://www.dtic.mil/armylink/news/Oct2002/a20021016gerthrust.html

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby NRao » 24 Oct 2002 07:14

GMan, God, you never quit. :)

1) what is the purpose of this exercise? just jump of each other's planes, with each others gear?
Read this:
PACAF troops participate in Cope India

2) what does jumping off planes in agra from a C130 teach a poor Indian Jawan? I can understand the americans getting to do jumps off sceanic locations, but what really is the Jawan learning?
They have exchanged gears, jumped from each others ACs, used each others arms, GPS units, computers, flown each others ACs (in cross pairs), etc, etc, etc. Here in Agra and in AK.

3) what is the point of jumping off a C 130 and learning interoperablity? when us getting the C 130 is not happening in the near future nor are we barging into 'troubled spots' with hand in hand with the americans.
Small first steps. Till India blasts another nuke. Then, reboot. Or preparing for a joint TSP invasion.

BTW, the latest AWST states that the Indian Army is interested in importing a variety of items (IAF and IN are not, states they both do not trust the delivery of items). C 130s, I thought, was an item on "The" list. Guess not.

On a more serious note, airlift capabilities lend itself very easily to "interoperability".

4) that i need to shuddup and watch smiling female aviator pics and sincerely hope that this will build 'relations', 'understanding' and make better all that stuff which most jingos seem to gripe about in the strategy forum.
Stick to the topic of the thread.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Rudra » 24 Oct 2002 08:19

India has 5 para commando battalions now. so thats 1 brigade+2 battalion.

methinks time is ripe to convert rest of paras into SF standard and have our first airborne SF division (in three independent brigades).

George J

Re: Cope India 2002

Postby George J » 24 Oct 2002 08:27

Niranjan:

Hey dont chew me out yet...hear me out. Your link show some guy showing us how to patrol the base with an ATV, how to set up a LAN, etc.

We go jumping of their planes in their chutes, as your link says
Knowing what to expect from your friends and how they do business aids immeasurably in being able to get missions done together. In that sense, interoperability becomes a force multiplier.”
So we are jumping of their planes with the delicious hope that we are gonna be doing missions together? Now what kinda missions are we gonna do together that cant be done by them alone? Is that loaded question or wot?

By jumping of C-130 for a week and then having a hiatus of weeks, months of using our desi equipment, aint gonna keep our new found skills top notch right?

I can understand the French bring their M2K and teaching us a few tactics. After all we got what they got and if they train with us, with the same equipment, we get to practice what we learnt when the leave.

Hence my very innocent question, what do you we gain by jumping off C-130 in Agra? :D

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby kgoan » 24 Oct 2002 08:50

>> ...what do you we gain by jumping off C-130 in Agra?

If you're asking me dude, the most likely answer is "heart failure".

Dunno about the anyone else or the army chappies.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby debjani » 24 Oct 2002 09:09

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
India has 5 para commando battalions now. so thats 1 brigade+2 battalion.

have our first airborne SF division (in three independent brigades).
It is an interesting thought. And then do what? I mean in what scenario would this Parachute Division be used?

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Joeqp » 24 Oct 2002 09:10

Where does "Cope India" come from? How about from this ToI passage (from the "Keep off blondes, IAF men warned" article):

<I>
The US Air Force has dropped blonde bombshells on the mofussil airbase here. There are also redheads and brunettes. The range covers the entire spectrum. The male-dominated IAF is dazzled and disarmed, but is determined to <B>cope</B> with the excitement.</I>

So, the USAF is saying: here are some blondes, India! Cope with them if you can!

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Joeqp » 24 Oct 2002 09:13

<I><B>Originally posted by George J:
</B>Could somebody please tell me:</I>

Short answer GJ: these sorts of exercises are common with other 'friendly' countries. The troops get to meet each other, establish contacts and some camraderie which may pay dividends later. Also, they get to try out each other's equipment.

This is not a big deal in itself; the big deal is that the bigwigs see some value in improving the contacts between the two forces, and this is just a small step in that direction.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby NRao » 24 Oct 2002 09:50

GMan:

“There are a lot of similarities between our services,” he said. “They have specialty mechanics [electricians, engine troops] and additional duties just like we do. We discussed airframes of the C-130 and the AN-32 and discovered different abilities of each.”

Agra’s Chief Operations Officer Group Captain GP Singh said, “Our forces share a broad scope of airlift abilities. It’s my hope that airmen from each country gain a greater appreciation of procedures and techniques from COPE INDIA.”
Your M2K comment was a hit below the belt. What do you expect an air lift company to do, besides lifitng and dropping? :)

I think in the case of the army it may be more than just establishing some contacts. The IA can get some tangible "stuff" from the US: communication items (real-time - walk-talks), believe their para related items are better - lighter actually, etc. Nothing like M1s, but small time though important.

Will bash this topic when we meet.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Anurag » 24 Oct 2002 10:15

It's also learning from each other's weaknesses and strengths!

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Jagan » 24 Oct 2002 12:43

Originally posted by George J:
Could somebody please tell me:

1) what is the purpose of this exercise? just jump of each other's planes, with each others gear?
Where did i read that the purpose of the Exercise was to learn about preparation of dropping zones or landing zones at short time and also of preparing airbases at very short notice? Can someone give the link?

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Mohan Raju » 24 Oct 2002 12:57

I'd like to know more about the name for this exercise i.e. Cope India. Any significance to this name? What does it mean?
It doesn't mean anything. These names are chosen at random by a computer.

Mike: Re. your comment about the blondes: :D

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Rudra » 24 Oct 2002 19:23

Ray sir, use them as Russia intended. spearheads to increase the depth of attack and prepare the way for armour thrusts.

With a robust fleet of a/c and heavy helos send along lot of advanced 105mm arty, automatic mortars and Abhays along.

Can also be used for hit-n-run Dieppe style missions of punishment - Gwader say.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Ashok » 24 Oct 2002 19:39

Originally posted by vverma:
Cope India. Any significance to this name? What does it mean?
I believe it stands for "CoOPerative Exercise" . There seem to have
been a number of other COPE exercises around, as a Google search will reveal.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Harry » 25 Oct 2002 02:20

<img src="http://www.indiatimes.com/dub/doct24.jpg" alt="" />

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Rudra » 25 Oct 2002 03:11

Amrikans are not averse to using raw sexuality to raise morale. I recall Gen Frank Myers the JC presenting a couple of texan beauty cheerleaders wrapped in amrikan flags to the 'hungry' marines at bagram for a show. some freaky hot rock artist also went there in a burqa and *ripped* the thing off.

impressive guys these - work hard , play hard.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby svinayak » 25 Oct 2002 03:16

:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby vverma » 25 Oct 2002 04:15

Originally posted by M.T.Wheeler:
Originally posted by vverma:
Cope India. Any significance to this name? What does it mean?
I believe it stands for "CoOPerative Exercise" . There seem to have
been a number of other COPE exercises around, as a Google search will reveal.
Thanks. I found the same thing at Pentagon's site. Something else that was interesting was there wasn't a single mention of Cope India anywhere on the DefenseLink website. That is Pentagon's main PR website. I wonder why?

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby debjani » 25 Oct 2002 06:55

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
use them as Russia intended. spearheads to increase the depth of attack and prepare the way for armour thrusts.

With a robust fleet of a/c and heavy helos send along lot of advanced 105mm arty, automatic mortars and Abhays along.

Can also be used for hit-n-run Dieppe style missions of punishment - Gwader say.
Indeed a possibility. One may like to consider the requirement of near sanitised air situation and the intended battefield depth. This would probably indicate the size of the AB {Airborne} Force we may require. One could also think in terms of the Airhead operations that one may like to engage in.
It is also worth considering whether a Div size force is required for hit and run raids.
What about thinking in terms of a dual tasked Airborne cum Amphibious Div? That possibly would assist a new angle to the strategic reach if indeed one rquires an Airborne Div.

An interesting idea no doubt. Dont forget the costs.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Mohan Raju » 25 Oct 2002 12:15

What about thinking in terms of a dual tasked Airborne cum Amphibious Div?
Hmmm... are you thinking of a Div where every unit and subunit was equally capable of airborne ops as well as marine amphibious ops? Why not simply have independent Bde-size formations specializing in different ops? Say, a marine amphious bde and two airborne bdes, all operating as independent formations?


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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Shankar » 25 Oct 2002 17:01

Lets get serious for a moment
The basic purpose of the exercise i think as follows
-set up common communicatin frequencies
-IFF transponder installation and test
-acclametisation of us troops for likely joint air drop over hot dry zones.Agra is not much different from Afganistan.
-Mutual air trafic control compatiability and familiarisation
-creating a a mutual comfort level and understanding in case a large airdrop is required
and that may include LAPS(low altitude parachute extraction)from c-130,high altitude para drop
from IL-76s ,and rough strip landing of special forces in hostile teritory by AN-32s all involving close formation flying (thats why us show cased formation keeping equipment)and synchronised airdrop with precision and accurate timming.

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby member_201 » 25 Oct 2002 22:36

Yokota crew chief finds interesting pair in C-130 engine at COPE India

http://www2.hickam.af.mil/news/2002/2002240.htm

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Re: Cope India 2002

Postby Johann » 25 Oct 2002 23:21

Shankar, you're basically right about the list. There is a long, long checklist of procedures involved in a drop involving even a single aircraft, never mind a multi ship formation. Without familarisation with each others procedures and equipment no joint real world operations would be practical.

Now take a step back and look at how many times the Americans (or Indians) have conducted combat drops at the company level or above in the last 25 years. Take a look at the exact units used, and the unified commands they fall under. You might agree that the goal of building a basic capacity for joint airborne operations is entirely secondary to defence diplomacy and miilitary to military contact as the Americans like to call it.

Incidentally LAPES is a high risk procedure. About the only circumstances that the USAF might conduct such an operation dropping equipment like bulldozers is if a Ranger formation was tasked with seizing an airfield with obstacles on it.

George J

Re: Cope India 2002

Postby George J » 26 Oct 2002 05:45

Have we ever excercised with the Soviet Onion and the russians?

Or any Warsaw pact countries?


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