LCA is Named Tejas!!!

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 07 May 2003 12:23

Sanjay Simha ki jai!!

Cybersurgeon Shiv ki jai!!

Originally posted by Shiv:

Both from my Linux default browser and from Netscape on windows the page that loads is a huge page of symbols and gibberish

Aha! Your problem is fairly easy to diagnose:

1. You are using Linux, and
2. You are using Netscape.

Amarko · Post by **Amarko** » 07 May 2003 14:06

Great pictures from Sanjay Simha! Thank you sir!

Some observations:
KH2003 has the same paint scheme as KH2002, the only way to tell them apart would be a close look at the vertical tail plane.

PV1 also seems to have a rectangular inlet just after the air intakes, any ideas what it is? See Tejas01.jpg

The red protective cover on the engine nozzle of KH2003 implies it did not fly that day (at least until the pictures were taken).

In Tejas03.jpg, we see that the bright red drag chute covers of TD1 & TD2 are gone, which means they had already finished their sorties and have expended their drag chutes? Are drag chutes "use and throw?" Or does some one stuff the chute back in after the plane comes back to the hangar?

Can't wait to see PV1 take off and break the sound barrier !

Amarko.

Nandai · Post by **Nandai** » 07 May 2003 15:13

Yeah Rudra, I thought about that too, I hope they change their mind, or maybe they have thought about that already, made the wire heatproof.

abhinav · Post by **abhinav** » 07 May 2003 16:22

Sridhar : Thank you. I realised my mistake of labelling it PV. In fact, it should read TD-2 !

Soumya Ray : I have tried to modify my webpage, but the 'pagebuilding' software on geocities is refusing to upload, and I am no expert in HTML usage !!!
Yes, I accept my mistake, it should actually read TD-2, in my excitment, i labelled it incorrectly!!

cy_baru : i will e-mail you the drawing if needed. Please let me know if it still doesnt work.

Shiv : Thank You for the feeedback. i only use IE because i aam no expert in pc technology!! I have heard of Net$cape, but the name is the only thing i am familiar with!

If any members could list a few examples of websites where i can post my pictures on webpages apart from Yahoo'geocities', i could try posting the picture there. Yahoo is persisitent in not being friendly!
Or, if any member is willing to post the drawing on their website, that would be helpful.
Or maybe, the administrators could post it in a BR temprory link...

I am willing to e-mail the drawing to whomever may need so.

Regards

grip · Post by **grip** » 07 May 2003 16:26

allo junta
First post here.

Ive always thought the tejas doesnt have the killer-machine look. NOT ANYMORE .

Pl take anticipatory bail if you wanna 'lift' this awesome pic from nic archives

Dated: 4th May 03
http://pib.nic.in/archieve/phtgalry/pgyr2003/pg052003/pg04may2003/h040520032.jpg

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 May 2003 19:02

Actually the "killer" is brought out when they are in a pair. Nice.

Harsh · Post by **Harsh** » 07 May 2003 19:16

For all of you having trouble viewing Abhinav's picture, I've converted it to jpeg and uploaded it here:

http://djdetroitdesi.50megs.com/Pictures/abhinav_lca.jpg

You may need to cut and paste the url in your browser title bar.

-Harsh

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 May 2003 19:26

Originally posted by Harshavardhan:
For all of you having trouble viewing Abhinav's picture, I've converted it to jpeg and uploaded it here:

http://djdetroitdesi.50megs.com/Pictures/abhinav_lca.jpg

You may need to cut and paste the url in your browser title bar.

-Harsh

Drawing says PV-2, should it be TD-2? VTail does not look like a PV VTail.

abhinav · Post by **abhinav** » 07 May 2003 19:51

Niranjan Rao : As noted from my earlier post, i mislabelled my drawing in excitment. It should in fact read TD-2; as PV-2 does not even yet exsist as a complete entity!!

I have nearly completed the the front view, and the top view (its only a matter of drawing one half,copyin it, flipping it through 180 degrees, and pasting!!).I should soon be working on potential camouflage livery, and how the TEJAS would look in different markings.

If anyone would like the blank drawing to rey their own schemes in the future, please let me know.

Regards

rrnsss1711 · Post by **rrnsss1711** » 07 May 2003 19:54

Is there even a remote chance of a PC simulator for LCA? I sure hope so.

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 07 May 2003 19:59

Actually the "killer" is brought out when they are in a pair. Nice.

Any under belly look is a killer.

Why cant we start making them in number today.

Man imagine when Kaveri is powering the 'Tejas'

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 07 May 2003 20:24

Originally posted by John Umrao:
Any under belly look is a killer.

The Man, The Machine, The Menu

Boy are these wonderful pics. Great job Sanjay.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 May 2003 20:53

Originally posted by abhinav:
Niranjan Rao : As noted from my earlier post, i mislabelled my drawing in excitment. It should in fact read TD-2; as PV-2 does not even yet exsist as a complete entity!!

I have nearly completed the the front view, and the top view (its only a matter of drawing one half,copyin it, flipping it through 180 degrees, and pasting!!).I should soon be working on potential camouflage livery, and how the TEJAS would look in different markings.

If anyone would like the blank drawing to rey their own schemes in the future, please let me know.

Regards

Ooooppps. SORRY.

abhinav · Post by **abhinav** » 07 May 2003 20:57

I have tried to post a new drawing in jpeg format.
I would be thankful if the patient BR members(eg: Shiv who has netscape), would kindly give me some feedbackn on any problems with the link.Thanx

http://www.geocities.com/bigkabina

the URL address "MAY" need to be cut and pasted.

RamachandranSS : With all the bright Indian It chaps out there who take a keen interest in our defence, it shouldnt be a problem for a basic simulator to be developed.Hopefully, when Tejas does enter service, Janes Fighter simulator will include it its package!

The other thing which i also hope materialises is the production of plastic models by airfix, or any other modelling company. i do have a 1:72 scale hand built resin model with me, which was sent to me by a BR member three years ago from America.Hopefully, I will be able to take it to the BR London meeting.

Regards

AJames · Post by **AJames** » 07 May 2003 22:26

quote:

Originally posted by Shiv:

Both from my Linux default browser and from Netscape on windows the page that loads is a huge page of symbols and gibberish

With Linux browsers (Netscape/Konquerer etc.) if you want to download a file instead of open it with an application, hold the shift key down and click on the link to the file. If you click on a link to a file without holding down the shift key, the browser tries to download and open the file using the application associated with the registered MIME extension just like Windows.

The reason for the different behaviour is Linux browsers are often used to browse local files on the hard drive as well and as an FTP client. The Linux OS is basically Unix and Unix traditionally used a "magic number" in the file header rather than file extensions to identify file type (most commonly text files produced by editors).

When Windows tries to download and run a file which isn't associated with a MIME type, then it prompts for an application or to save it. Linux does the same except if the file has a valid magic number then it will open with the associated application (usually a text viewer). Hence if a file has a MIME extension which isn't registered but has a magic number interpreted as a text file, it will be displayed in the browser window as ASCII text.

http://www.pcquest.com/content/linux/handson/299060101.asp

Anyway that is the long answer.

Vaibhav · Post by **Vaibhav** » 08 May 2003 00:40

guys any pics of PV-1????

SRay · Post by **SRay** » 08 May 2003 02:39

Vaibhav:

Look at Jagan's links on page four of this thread -- the PV-1 is marked KH-2003

Nandai · Post by **Nandai** » 08 May 2003 02:51

Aquick question, has the Tejas done any weapontests yet? and if not when are those planned to start?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 May 2003 02:58

PV-3 or PV-4 for weapon tests.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 08 May 2003 03:02

Originally posted by abhinav:
I have tried to post a new drawing in jpeg format.
I would be thankful if the patient BR members(eg: Shiv who has netscape), would kindly give me some feedbackn on any problems with the link.Thanx

http://www.geocities.com/bigkabina

the URL address "MAY" need to be cut and pasted.

RamachandranSS : With all the bright Indian It chaps out there who take a keen interest in our defence, it shouldnt be a problem for a basic simulator to be developed.Hopefully, when Tejas does enter service, Janes Fighter simulator will include it its package!

The other thing which i also hope materialises is the production of plastic models by airfix, or any other modelling company. i do have a 1:72 scale hand built resin model with me, which was sent to me by a BR member three years ago from America.Hopefully, I will be able to take it to the BR London meeting.

Regards

Abhinav,

I would like to use your pictures (with front back, top, and rear) to try making a 3DS Max Model of LCA/Tejas. Can I?

Prakash

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 08 May 2003 03:17

There is already a free sim out there, if you can get a wireframe and other associated details, one could get it flying rather soon..

If i am not mistaken, the very sim was used by ada to model and test things..

abhinav · Post by **abhinav** » 08 May 2003 03:44

Prakash : Yes, once i have finished drawing all three views! Which software would you use, and how much would that software cost. I had similar ideas..!

Regards

RonyKJ · Post by **RonyKJ** » 08 May 2003 04:00

Here's one quick and relatively cheap way to get the models made commercially. From a 3D or solid model, generate a .SLA file. Send it to a rapid prototyping outfit and they would give you a plastic model form a stereolithography machine for about $500. This plastic model could be used to make a RTV mold (maybe another $1000). Using the RTV mold you can get injection molded parts which would still have to be decorated to get the camo paint. The number of parts you can get from a RTV mold is limited to a few thousands. For more number of parts you would have to get an aluminum mold made (which would be several thousand $) and would give you about 30,000 parts. For even more parts, you would need a regular steel mold (which can cost 3 times that of an aluminum mold) and give you several 100 thousand parts.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 08 May 2003 04:52

abhinav,

Can you give me your e-mail address, or send me an e-mail address to [email protected]? We will discuss it offline.

Prakash

abhinav · Post by **abhinav** » 08 May 2003 05:37

RonyKJ : That sounds interesting and quite managable!! you also made an important point about the cost, ie it was "relative".
Relative to me personally, the cost is quite high.
Relative to a forum of participants willing to share the finance($50/individual), or a rich individual,the cost is quite low!!!

At the moment, the only cheap way i can see the models being built is through handmade resin models. However, this requires skill and lots of man-hours and some determination.

I am going to write letters to major plastic modelling companies(eg:revell, airfix, italeri) and ask them if they plan to bring the tejas model anytime soon.maybe if all forum members dropped them a line, they 'may' actually take notice of the letters and at least 'think' about the LCA.

Regards

RonyKJ · Post by **RonyKJ** » 08 May 2003 09:01

Abhinav
I am sure that if the model making companies see a lot of interest, they would bring out a model.
However I am concerned about another aspect which is about who owns the rights. I wonder if one has to get permission from ADA or GoI before doing it. There is also the possibility that if the ADA were to bless the idea, you could get the most accurate solid models from them which is probably wishful thinking. I suggest that you write the ADA also in this regard and ask if they would take the initiative to bring out a model. It would be a money making venture for anyone who is willing to do it. By the way, hold on to your 3D models and don't be in a hurry to send it to anyone, especially the model making companies.

Aditya_M · Post by **Aditya_M** » 08 May 2003 20:58

A couple of mods for Fighters Anthology had the LCA in them, but they always borrowed airframes from Mirage 2000s or Rafales, and so they looked ugly. They also handled odd as well, they were not made by Indians or people who knew the LCA

abhinav · Post by **abhinav** » 08 May 2003 21:43

Prakash R is making a complete 3D polygon model using the 3-view drawings http://abhinav.5u.com/photo.html
I have sent him. Hopefully, this could be a framework for ne future solid models.

The fact if and when the major modelling companies will start making LCA models will depend on how many "bling$$$-bling£££" signs they can see. The greater the demand the better.
Now, I purcahse AFM (airforce monthly) magazine every month, and theere have benn more than 10 dedicated aricles on the LCA, with lots of pictures over the past few years. Hopefully this will raise the profile and the awareness of the aircraft among the everyday amateur enthusiast in the west(the most profitable market for models)(like me), and they would be more willing to pay £10 for a LCA model.

Now, I have been thinking about the letter-wriring exercise seriously; and I think if the majority of all forum members wrote a letter enquiring about the LCA model, the impact would be far greater.I dont think I am allowed to start a new thread for this purpose only, but I want to get this message across to all forum members!!

Regards

Kuttan · Post by **Kuttan** » 09 May 2003 07:54

Any updates on the Kaveri engine? I read some stinker article in Aviation Leak whining that the contract for compressor / fan blades had been given to a Gujarat-based developer instead of buying from some phoren company.

Wanted to congratulate the LCA director for that brave decision - but is the engine coming along? Any news?

chandru · Post by **chandru** » 10 May 2003 00:44

LCA is Named Tejas!!!

But why is it still called as LCA. Shouldn't we refer as TEJAS!

JCage · Post by **JCage** » 10 May 2003 01:00

Originally posted by narayanan:
Any updates on the Kaveri engine? I read some stinker article in Aviation Leak whining that the contract for compressor / fan blades had been given to a Gujarat-based developer instead of buying from some phoren company.

Wanted to congratulate the LCA director for that brave decision - but is the engine coming along? Any news?

Coming along well.Everything -as far as timeline is concerned-hinges on the trials currently underway in russia with the flying test bed.If they go well,race to the finish line-fast.
If not,back to the drawing board with two years scabbed on.
The developers were-"cautiously optimistic".

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 10 May 2003 01:10

I am being paranoid here what is in this (Kaveri Success) for Russia , I see it other way around.

Added later.

God forbid we do have to go back to (Pittie Drawing boards

) If we say ok Ivan we will give you 25/30 % if you can make it go tomorrow?
********
Added later. Nitin what I was thinking was that If Kaveri succeeds then our dependence on Ivan for some a/c will diminish. All the lucarative upgrading business of MiG-21 will go Kaput.

Also since MiG-21 is going to be with us for a while and since even the upgrade design of RB-23 engine is also suspect (flaring of fuel tube?)
can we retrofit Kaveri into MiG-21 Airframe?

If Kaveri is like good Ph D thesis (one can generate hazar papers from such a thesis to get tenure

) we can use to equip many toys. Think of Idly (mewa) can be made uthapam, Sada dosa masal dosa paper dosa, MLA Dosa etc etc.

JCage · Post by **JCage** » 10 May 2003 01:40

Originally posted by John Umrao:
I am being paranoid here what is this (Kaveri Success) for Russia , I see it other way around.

Added later.

God forbid we do have to go back to (Pittie Drawing boards ) If we say ok Ivan we will give you 25/30 % if you can make it go tomorrow?

Hell no,dont worry.I was just using a phrase as in "bak to the drawing boards".If there is some significant shortfall in performance,then some degree of redesign will be done.To be frank- i noted two things.One was the optimism,not what we expect from the website maintenance (

) and serious answers,the second was the realization that they needed to be circumspect with details.That second thing itself spoke volumes about how important the Kaveri is in a strategic sense and that the developers know it.They realise that loose talk is damaging so were avoiding the same.Too many pesky details and the Opp party will know whats critical for devpt and what GTRE needs/wants etc.

Kaveri Russia linkage?Havent we discussed this already..the test facilities.
High Altitude test rig at CIAM,russia plus the flying Tu16 test bed where the podded kaveri will be extended at altitude,run and monitored.

Vick · Post by **Vick** » 10 May 2003 03:20

Defense News

May 09, 2003

New Delhi Rethinks LCA Buy

By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI

The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) is reconsidering purchase of an aircraft to serve as both an advanced jet trainer and a combat fighter, a move that could block the possible purchase of either the British Hawk 100 or the Czech L-159B trainer.

The Air Force in April submitted the proposal, which would cost about $1.5 billion, in light of the current shortage of about 200 combat aircraft. The indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is behind schedule by six to seven years, and had been intended to replace aging MiG -21 combat aircraft, which have been involved in a series of crashes.

MoD planners also note that because both the Hawk 100, built by BAE SYSTEMS, and the L-159B, by Aero Vodochody, have U.S. parts, there is always a threat that spare parts supplies could dry up under future U.S. sanctions, a ministry official said.

Defence Minster George Fernandes is likely to weigh the implications of U.S. parts in the Hawk and L-159 when making a decision, the ministry official said May 5. India suffered following 1998 U.S. sanctions, which left half the country’s British Sea King helicopter fleet grounded for lack of U.S. parts. The LCA program also was badly hit when delivery of the aircraft’s GE 404 engines was stopped, added the MoD official.

See full story in the May 12, 2003, issue of Defense News.

Rudra · Post by **Rudra** » 10 May 2003 03:35

so mirage2000 trainers will be AJT ?

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 10 May 2003 03:55

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
so mirage2000 trainers will be AJT ?

Maybe old, refurbished Alpha Jets? Can they be configured for combat?

During the recent visit of the French Defense Minister, one of the news stories listed an AJT as one of the items to be discussed.

Re. the Hawk, the British Govt., replying to a debate in Parliament, has said that the Hawks being offered to India are not combat-configurable.

The Czech L-159's single seater version is meant to join the fighter squadrons of the Czech Air Force. So, why can't the two-seater L-159B be configured for combat?

Kuttan · Post by **Kuttan** » 10 May 2003 03:56

Dumb question: Since the LCA is expected to be in "prototype" stage for some time, and since it has fly-by-wire and so all the "control feel" is artificial, is it possible to use it as a trainer? One generally needs far few trainers than combat aircraft, hey? I guess a few more engines will be needed in the short term, but I am too ignorant to see what is so special about an Advanced Jet Trainer except an ability to mimic the handling characteristics of different craft - and maybe a little more forgiveness for student errors...

Since the HAWK deal has been (wisely) delayed this long, and the LCA is advanced enough to have two prototypes flying together.... how tough is this, I wonder???

Let me brace for the missile assault from the folks who understand the frustration of the military...

AJames · Post by **AJames** » 10 May 2003 04:36

Cost is probably the main issue - although the Hawk is also very costly. Programmability of handling means it can mimic any other IAF fast jet. It may not be able to train for low speed landings though (eg. for training for a transport aircraft), though you can do this on the IJT.

Maybe if more LCA trainers are ordered, the number of AJTs can be reduced, allowing second hand AJT aircraft to be purchased.

davidn · Post by **davidn** » 10 May 2003 05:55

Originally posted by RajeevT:

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
so mirage2000 trainers will be AJT ?
Re. the Hawk, the British Govt., replying to a debate in Parliament, has said that the Hawks being offered to India are not combat-configurable.

After several of those new labour fools, found to their horror, that Indonesia used their hawks against the East Timorese, they made sure that they it wouldn't happen again. After all, Our two countries both start with 'Ind', thus we are both evil.

Kuttan · Post by **Kuttan** » 10 May 2003 05:57

I doubt if low speed handling is an issue - they can get other planes for training for that. Isn't an AJT meant to train pilots to deal with the high-speed landings, complex high-G maneuvers and precision position-keeping? I've heard somewhere that the transition from propeller planes with 60-knot landing speeds to the MiG-21 with its 200-knot-plus landing speed is one of the most horrible parts of IAF pilot training....

It may not be trivial to mimic the advanced instrumentation of a modern fighter, but then, the LCA IS supposed to be a modern fighter... they can go straight to weapons training in the same planes...

Sorry for posting something which is probably completely stupid - but why is it stupid?