Indian Interests

[Sanku]

Gentlemen...

This is one of the most important statements of the past century. Not hyperbole it indeed is. This should actually be cross posted in India-China thread; Geo-Pol thread and any other related threads; since apart from obvious spiritual implications this says a lot about Tibetian position vis a vis India in long and short term. That will obviously involve China. This also is a great statement on unity of Dharmic Ideas coming from a source even the westerns cant rake muck on. The idea of India == Dharmic sources etc solidifies further.

Posting in full because of its implications.

I am mentally an Indian: Dalai Lama

I am mentally an Indian: Dalai Lama
January 17, 2008 20:28 IST

Dalai Lama , spiritual leader of the Buddhist community, said on Thursday that having spent many years as a refugee in this country, he has become an Indian mentally.

"I have been a homeless person for 50 years," the Dalai Lama said at a function organised in Bangalore to felicitate former Defence Minister George Fernandes . The Buddhist leader added that he has been a guest of the Indian government all these years.

The 72-year-old said that he had become a refugee at the age of 24.

"The best part of my life has been spent in this country. The major part of my life has been spent in this country", he said. After spending so many years in India, the Dalai Lama said that his inner values and spirituality come from this country.

"Indian spirituality filled my mind. I am mentally an Indian," he said.

According to him, India could solve many of its problems if Indians still possessed the same zeal and spirit that they showed during the freedom struggle.

George Uncle Zindabad.

[Sanku]

Excellent summary of Indian interests as popularly understood right now. by L.K. Advani.

If admins permit; I believe this should be posted in full here because of its import; although its a little longish.

Why China and India are important to world peace

[mayurav]

Excellent summary of Indian interests as popularly understood right now. by L.K. Advani.

If admins permit; I believe this should be posted in full here because of its import; although its a little longish.

Why China and India are important to world peace

Let me do the honors. It is an excellent articulation of challenges we face and how to overcome them in the process of realizing our full potential.

Let's recognise the Genius of Asia

A discussion on 'Democracy and Conflict Resolution in Asia' must first of all recognise two factors about Asia -- its rich historical experience and its proud diversity, which should disabuse us of the notion that we have nothing to learn from our tradition of democracy and conflict-resolution and have to only learn from others. Asia is the world's largest, most populous and most diverse continent. It is also where all the world's major faiths were born. It is the cradle of a majority of the world's great and living civilizations. Neither of the two devastating World Wars of the last century was caused by Asia, although Asian countries were affected by their fire. Similarly, Asia has been a victim of colonialism and not a cause of it.

All this speaks of what is often termed as the 'Genius of Asia'. By any reckoning, it provides a valuable spiritual, cultural and intellectual resource to promote democracy and peaceful conflict-resolution. There is another important point to be noted here. After remaining a victim of history for several centuries, Asia is now becoming, once again, a prime shaper of its own destiny. Let me put this point in perspective.

Last week, I came across three volumes of a new and ambitious encyclopedia on the history of Indian Science and Technology, a project promoted by Rajiv Malhotra of the Infinity Foundation, USA. It quotes Samuel Huntington writing the following in his much-discussed book Clash of Civilisations.

"In 1750, China accounted for almost one-third, India for almost one-quarter and the West for a less than a fifth of the world's manufacturing output� In the following decades, the industrialisation of the West led to the de-industrialisation of the world."

In contrast to this, the late 20th century witnessed an Asian economic renaissance. As far as economic growth is concerned, the centre of gravity has already shifted to Asia, with India and China emerging as the two main engines of the growth of the global economy. According to noted economic historian Angus Maddison, if India and China can sustain their current rates of growth, they will regain their historic place in the next few decades.

The above trend has profound implications for democracy, conflict-resolution and management of global affairs in general. The western monopoly over global economic processes, one that has lasted for over two centuries and which gave the West a dominant position in military matters and global diplomacy, has been unequivocally broken. Asia's material rejuvenation buttressed by the flow of financial resources and dissemination of information/knowledge flows, itself enabled by the IT and communication revolution of the 1990s, has begun to strengthen the voice of nation states in Asia.

Therefore, if Asia's newly gained economic strength and rapidly growing political clout can be combined with the essential 'Genius of Asia' -- its priceless civilisational, cultural and spiritual resource, rooted in the values of peace, harmony, justice, respect for pluralism, co-existence and dialogue -- I am optimistic that Asia will be able to rewrite not only its own history but also contribute greatly to building a better future for the world as a whole. And with Asia rapidly reclaiming its historic position in the global community, I feel confident that Europe's past will not be Asia's future; rather, the best of Asia's past will mould humanity's future.

India and China should normalise good-neighbourly ties

In fact, one notices an interesting trend in Asian diplomacy whereby outstanding conflicts cast a diminishing shadow on the improvement of relations in other spheres, particularly economic. It could also be argued that the existence of outstanding disputes is persuading states to seek rapprochement and construct new bilateral and multilateral mechanisms/institutions. Economic interdependence in Asia is gradually compelling states to pursue non-confrontational means of tackling old disputes. It may suffice to say that inter-state stability can only emerge from a mutual accommodation of each other's core security interests. And this in turn will require responsible statesmen who can equilibrate security strategies based on "self-help" with those based on cooperative norms.

A good example of this is the evolution of India-China relations in recent years, and the constructive approach that both countries have adopted to resolve the border dispute. Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh's [Images] just-concluded visit to China has hopefully taken this effort forward. Fully normalised good-neighbourly and cooperative relations between the two great nations of Asia can become a reliable factor of peace, stability and progress both in the region and globally.

Indeed, the effort to bring about a rapprochement in India-China relations was started when Atal Bihari Vajpayee was the foreign minister in Morarji Desai's government. His historic meeting with Deng Xiaoping in 1979 broke the ice and resumed top-level dialogue that had been frozen after 1962. Vajpayee also gave a big boost to this effort when he became prime minister. An institutionalised framework for dialogue on resolution of the border dispute was begun during his regime. In between, Rajiv Gandhi and P V Narasimha Rao also made valuable contribution to the normalisation of ties between our two countries. Here we see an example of the development of a highly useful national consensus in foreign policy.

It has been my view that Pakistan should recognise the usefulness of the framework adopted by India and China for normalising and strengthening our bilateral ties, without holding them hostage to the resolution of the border dispute. Similarly, Indo-Pak relations can be normalised without holding them hostage to the resolution of the Kashmir issue.

Two long-festering conflicts in Asia

Unfortunately, several long-festering conflicts in Asia have been sustained, and have eluded a satisfactory solution, because of the interplay between western strategies of global domination in conflict-zones, where the conflicts are in turn exacerbated by certain intolerant, violent, hegemonistic ideologies that have originated in Asia itself.

Two prime examples of this are the conflicts in West Asia and South Asia. Palestine must get independent statehood and, at the same time, Israel's right to exist must be unequivocally recognised by all its neighbours. Those who say that Israel should be wiped off the map of the world are a threat to regional and world peace, even though their voice emanates from within Asia itself.

Similarly, closer home, we have witnessed the tragedy of Afghanistan, where the forces stoking the fires of religious extremism and global domination have harmed India, too. The trouble began in 1979 with the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, which the then government of India should have condemned strongly and categorically. Afghanistan then became a victim of the Cold War rivalry between the then two superpowers, with Pakistan trying to take advantage of the conflict for its narrow geo-political ambitions. Since then, the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan, and the Soviet Union itself disintegrated. But Afghanistan continues to be a zone of war, because it was converted into a sanctuary of jehadi terrorism, with disastrous consequences for all those who gave birth to this Bhasmasur.

The latest victim of this Bhasmasur was Benazir Bhutto [Images] in Pakistan. We must remember that her assassination in a terrorist attack took place in the context of the Pakistani people's aspiration for the establishment of an effective and stable democratic system. I had commented then, and also on the earlier occasion when she escaped an assassination bid on the day she returned from her exile (when 125 persons were killed in a terrorist attack on her convoy), that, in Pakistan, the struggle for democracy and the struggle against terrorism inspired by religious extremism cannot be separated.

The developments in Pakistan should prompt us to recognise a disturbing trend: The term 'democracy' is being manipulated in international relations discourse to suit the self-serving purpose of preserving one's global domination and preserving one's 'spheres of influence'. All of us know that intolerant and extremist religious ideologies are being exported out of certain countries in Asia which are far from democratic. Nevertheless, they are tolerated by those proclaiming to be defenders of freedom and democracy worldwide. This self-deception will prove costly to its practitioners and to the world at large.

Worrisome developments in Nepal

Friends, I would like to make a brief comment on the happenings in Nepal. My party and I stood firmly by the side of the people of Nepal in their desire for effective and fully empowered democracy. But we also backed their other aspiration, which was suppressed by the rise of Maoist forces in the politics of Nepal: namely, preservation of Nepal as a Hindu kingdom with constitutional monarchy. Maoism and democracy are a contradiction in terms. The two cannot go together. It is unfortunate that they have gained ascendancy in the polity of Nepal.

This has grave implications not only for Nepal but also for India, given the close nexus between Maoists on both sides of the border. The prime minister is right in characterising Communist extremism or Naxalism as the biggest threat to India's internal security. It is also a threat to our democracy. Why then has the United Progressive Alliance government remained a silent onlooker, with Communists in India playing the role of a colluder, when constitutional monarchy was disbanded recently under the pressure of the Maoists? The monarchy in Nepal was a symbol of its unique national identity and a source of its stability.

Also, why did the Indian Communists applaud when the identity of Nepal as a Hindu kingdom was erased even before the Constituent Assembly had discussed it? Would they demand that Pakistan or Bangladesh cease to be Islamic republics?

The examples of Israel-Palestine, Afghanistan and Nepal raise two important questions: Should India and other countries in Asia get entrapped in the Western-sponsored normative discourse on Asia's political evolution, or should we imbibe from our traditional values and norms? The former path is likely to ensure that we become the plaything of external powers seeking to shoot guns off our shoulders.

The second question is: Can Asia, or for that matter, the rest of the world, rest in peace if ideologies of religious extremism, exclusivism and global domination -- and these ideologies neither respect democracy nor tolerate secularism and plurality -- are allowed to grow in our midst?

India's proud record in defending democracy

It is against this background that I wish to present a few salient aspects of India's democratic tradition and our approach to conflict-resolution. This tradition and approach have been fundamentally influenced by Hindu philosophy and cultural ethos. Hindu philosophy since the dawn of our civilization has been pluralistic in its outlook and teachings. As a result, India is inherently a rare state in the international system, insofar as it is unwilling to impose a set of ideals and principles on other equally proud nations. Which is why, throughout her millennial history, India never sent out her armies to conquer other lands and exterminate or coerce the native populations or cultures.

It is because of this faith in pluralism and respect for the other's viewpoint that India, after independence, naturally accepted democracy and secularism. We did not import these from the West. Ask yourselves a simple question: Why is it that there has never been a military coup in a vast and diverse country like India, where a large section of the population is poor and less-literate? Never a violent change of power? How did India succeed in having regular elections, which are free and fair, and whose outcome has always been accepted by all political parties?

Yes, there was a brief eclipse of democracy during the Emergency. But the people voted against the Emergency regime so angrily, that even a leader as tall as Indira Gandhi [Images] was defeated.

Five tasks for strengthening India's role in the world

The challenge before us in India is: How do we strengthen the voice and role of India in the affairs of Asia and the world? Let me identify five tasks:

The first task is to ensure the success of India's own socio-political-economic story, which would in turn serve as a model for others to emulate.

Without comprehensive national success -- material, political, technological, and social progress, combined with military might to defend ourselves against any external threat -- the credibility/attraction of India's soft power (that is, the repertoire of ancient Indic knowledge, spiritual traditions, cultural heritage etc) will remain perfunctory. In fact, derogatory western commentary toward India and Hindus stemmed from our poor performance on the economic front, the inaction that stifled the strengthening of our polity, and the inefficient execution of our developmental objectives.

The second task is to regain and rebuild pride in our own national heritage -- spiritual, cultural, intellectual, scientific, technological and military.

Sadly, in the name of a distorted and perverted understanding of secularism, a section of our political and intellectual elite is busy belittling, denying and denigrating all that is Hindu. A nation that is not proud of its past can never attain greatness, nor can it command respect in the eyes of the world.

Thirdly, India should further strengthen an omni-directional foreign policy that seeks to engage with all the major centres of power.

The end of the Cold War brought with it the gradual dilution of a bloc-based system. The evolution of Indian diplomacy since the 1990s has been a structural response to such a world. The proliferation of our numerous 'strategic partnerships' that India has entered into in the past 15 years attests to the geopolitical diversity around us.

Fourthly, we have to vastly expand the size and strength of our foreign service personnel; business platforms; media organisations and think tanks with global reach; personalities associated with cinema, arts, music and literature; academics; NGOs; and cultural and spiritual ambassadors. We should also leverage the valuable resources of the approximately 20-million Indian Diaspora.

India's current diplomatic infrastructure and resources -- in the political, economic, cultural and academic-intellectual fields -- are far too inadequate for us to play an effective role either in Asia or around the world.

Lastly, India must intensify its efforts aimed at reform and restructuring of multilateral organisations at the Asian and global levels, beginning with the United Nations.

India's current role in these organisations is far from being commensurate with our present strength and future potential. If India is seeking a permanent seat in the UN Security Council, it is not because of some prestige value. Rather, it is out of our conviction that any global system that does not fully recognise the role of an ancient and newly resurgent nation, one which is the world's largest democracy and accounts for one-fifth of humanity, is inherently flawed.

I believe that systematic, unsentimental pursuit of all the above-mentioned five tasks will enable India to play a benign/constructive role in promotion of democracy and conflict-resolution in our own immediate neighbourhood, in wider Asia, and in the world at large. This is what we mean by our goal of working towards India reclaiming her rightful place in the comity of nations.

Excerpted from a speech by Leader of the Opposition and Bharatiya Janata Party leader L K Advani at a summit organised by the Dainik Jagran group in New Delhi recently.

[Prem]

For more tan thousands of years, from the rise of Sumer, a colony of Dravidian India, which spoke Dravidian, not a Semitic language, through the Semitic empires of Mesopotamia, and Canaan, the Middle East had become the cockpit of the greatest evil the planet had known, perhaps even to the present day. It wasn’t as well known as the modern versions of evil, but it was evil: so evil that it seemed the human species had no chance, as long as this evil existed.


The points of resistance were northern Egypt and Greece. Northern Egypt, or forces in Northern Egypt, collaborated with forces in Greece which we call republicans. The forces in Greece associated with the Ionian city-state republics, associated with Solon of Athens, associated with Plato, and Socrates; notably: These are the forces of civilization; these are the forces that gave us the first step to an alternative to Mesopotamian imperialism, the Mesopotamian oligarchical culture.
http://www.struat.com/election/2008/01/ ... -of-sorts/

[ramana]

I have been trying to understand, why us, Indians have had a successful democracy whereas a whole bunch of african nations and pureland who became free with us are into this morass of violence and military takeovers. Some quarters offer the explanation of hindu non-fanatical culture which has always valued enlightenment over ideology and encouraged debate and dissent. This may very well be true, but for us to offer and settle on this explanation, I want to make sure that this explanation is well founded and not rooted in cultural pride or jingoism, so it needs to be tested more than any other explanation. So, apart from religion and culture, I was trying to understand other factors:

Is it our size ? India is too big for a coup and too diverse to unify under one extremist philosophy. There is too much dissent

Is it the enlightenment of our initial leaders ? An enlightened few settling on secular enlightened principles and creating a system of checks and balances where the army is subservient to the civilian leadership.

Is it meddling by the great powers to keep the countries in a permanently destabilized state so they could always count on the support of one faction or the other ? (this would not happen in stable countries, they become stable, grow a brain and ideology and start looking out for their national interest. Sometimes at odds with the accepted "progressive" principles dictated by the leading power of the day. Take India and the haggling with the nuclear deal for example, or turkey wanting to show a finger to unkil and send its forces into the kurdish region, or to some extent france opposing the iraqi invasion. On the other hand, a destabilized pakistan always has a faction which will GUBO to unkil in return for doleouts)

In this aspect, India, pakistan and bangladesh are a study in contrasts. I view BD as half way between India and Pakistan - potential to become peaceful progressive state at the same time potential to fall on the other side and degrade to rabid extremists. Keeps oscillating. Why does BD have potential to become progressive ? is it lack of tribal culture ? why does BD have potential to become rabid extremists ? Is it religion or politicians dabbling with extremists forces like the religious parties and support of the generals ? If it is the last, did NWFP have any chance in history to be peaceful, moderate and progressive ?

I think it is because Indic people's world view is rooted in Dharma. They inherently know or differentiate between right and wrong. I will give two examples. Mrs. Indira Gandhi held elections after the Emergency in 1977 and the informed opinion in t enews papers was she would comeback to power. The psy-ops worked in Andhra Pradesh which voted for her party. However in rest of India people turned out in record numbers and voted her out for the excessess of teh Emergency committed under her rule. The people knew what was wrong and and took action. When the Janata Party failed to deliver they voted her back. And she understood and was a cahnged person in her second innings.

The two neighbors have an Islamic veneer over their thinking that prevents them form realizing their potential. The decade after Independence TSP had ample opportunities to become a S Korea type country and leave India behind. Yet it did not do so. The reason is lack of inherent democratic spirit.

If you go back in history you find that basically Hindus were a tribal society, the gotras are a relic of that, and urbanised in areas of Aryavarta. They were very democratic in electing their rulers. The first Chakravartis were created to bring stability and order to the regions or kingdoms. If you read the Bhisma parva and even the early parts of the Mahabharata the rights and duties of the King were very clear. Radha Kumud Mukherjee has gathered up the rules in his books "Fundamental Unity of India" and "Hindu Kingdoms". He ruled by the consent of his praja. Mahraja Bharata chose as his successor someone other than his son in order to ensure good governance.

Yes the message got distorted with time and circumustances even in his dynasty. The democratic tribal system co-existed with the monarchial system right down to the Gupta age. The Licchavis were a tribe that elected their leaders and the founder of the Gupta dynasty drew legitimacy for being related to them. What I think in the long view is the democratic system was replaced by the monarchial system in the Epic and Puranic age and has comeback in the modern age.
Other places dont have this or got replaced with other dogmas.

[ShauryaT]

I think it is because Indic people's world view is rooted in Dharma.

There is no other reason, ramana. There are only three civilizations, as per Huntington, where a long lasting true democracy is a natural fit. The west, India and Japan.

The warriors in the US are thinking....the only question is, what are the terms?

[pradeepe]

Excellent summary of Indian interests as popularly understood right now. by L.K. Advani.

If admins permit; I believe this should be posted in full here because of its import; although its a little longish.

Why China and India are important to world peace

Let me do the honors. It is an excellent articulation of challenges we face and how to overcome them in the process of realizing our full potential.

.

What an excellent article by Mr. LKA. And I thought politicians were bereft of such vision.

It would be interesting to identify and post thought provoking speeches/articles by Indian politicians from all sides.

[svinayak]

The Guidebook for
Con Artists and Manipulators
.

0 u The Standard Reaction
1 u Beliefs are Stronger than Steel and Stone
2 u Confusing Reality with a Story About Reality
3 u Declare Reality

.

4 u Distort the Truth
5 u Peddle Misinformation and Disinformation
6 u Use a Third Party Deceiver
7 u Prove Me Wrong

.

8 u I'm the Authority -- Trust Me
9 u Use the Uncontested Obvious or the Irrelevant as Proof
10 u Use the Opponents Argument as Proof of your Position
11 u Divert Attention

.

12 u Be Excessively Technical
13 u Use Personal Beliefs as Proof
14 u Ignore Any Evidence that Does not Fit the Pre-determined Conclusion
15 u Ask Loaded Questions

.

16 u Create a Problem
17 u Get People to Demand What You Want to Impose Upon Them
18 8 u Let's You and Him Fight
18 8au Create Divisiveness

.

19 u Chaos For Conversions
20 u Get The Child and You've Got the Adult
21 u The Exclude Me Clause
22 u Secret Language

.

23 u Becoming Offended
24 u Politics By Murder
25 u Divide and Conquer
26 u Two Sides Are Actually only One

.

27 u How to Steal a Million Dollars
28 u What's the Pattern Here

[ramana]

A good article in a blog.

The Indian Self Image in the 4th Century BCE

[Raju]

politicsparty.com
Presents
"REPUBLIC DAY ANALYSIS"
THE REPUBLIC DAY PARADE MUST GO ON.

THE POLITICAL CHARADE MUST STOP.

While the Original Pillars of India’s Democracy have perished, New Pillars have emerged.
By SIDDHARTHA
26 JANUARY 2008

Every January, there is a debate on the utility of the Republic Day Parade.

At midnight December 31, 1929 (January 1, 1930) the tricolour was unfurled at the Lahore Congress, pledging to celebrate Independence Day every January 26. This declaration of the spirit of independence became a reality when the Constitution came into force on January 26, 1950.

Now India is perplexed. There is no Leadership, either in government or in Opposition. There is just Dealership. Dealers have replaced Leaders at the helm of the Republic of India.

The Congress led UPA is a national disaster. Manmohan is a threat to India’s Strategic Interests. Manmohan is a professional careerist. Manmohan was and is never loyal to the institution that employs him. Manmohan is just desperate to continue as Prime Minister and to secure his next job. In pursuance of that Manmohan is bartering away Siachin, Kashmir, China-Occupied Territory, North-East, Allowing a Maoist Corridor from Katmandu to Kerala, Handing over India’s Insurance, Banking and Finances to Global Racketeers, Grabbing land from farmers coercively to donate to Business-Racketeers, Increasing expenditure on non-productive activity, Wasting Public money by employing corrupt retired bureaucrats in hundreds of Committees, Facilitating Party Bosses and Ministers to indulge in thousands of Crores of loot of the Public Exchequer and proving to be India’s worst ever Prime Minister after I.K.Gujral. The UPA government is anti-Farmer, anti-middle class and anti-working class. UPA does not have a pro-poor image. It has been unable to generate employment. Corruption is rampant.(Chidambaram, Manmohan, Montek combination is widely resented amongst Govt babu circles and middle-class/common man but then does anyone think how Chidambaram manages to become FM again ? Who are the influential groups that back this combination ?)

The Opposition is worse than the Government. It has neither focus nor credibility. Vajpayee and Advani are killing the opposition. They and their factotums have too many skeletons to hide, and are terrified of the Government. They are scared of opening their mouths. They want to protect their wealth. They do not want to protect India’s Economic, Security and Strategic Interests. Vajpa yee and Advani have made the opposition Impotent.

The charade played out by the current brand of Political Bosses of Every Party, bureaucrats, businessmen, media persons, judges and lawyers is a curse on India. Among these people, hardly one per cent are heroes, battling the rest of the 99 per cent. Wherever discretion is a responsibility, dereliction of duty is the fashion. So much so that those who perform their regular duties for which they are paid for, are applauded as heroes.

The Four Traditional Pillars and the Roof of our Democracy have got rotten, eaten up by corrupt termites. These Five Pillars are a National shame. A National Charade.

ROOF (POLITICAL CLASS): The political class is an embarrassment for the country.Almost Every Party is owned by a Leader, bossed over by families and surrounded by resource mobilisers. They drain the Government Treasury and degenerate governance. Party bosses have destroyed the concept of representative politics. Voters just do not have a choice. The voters just have one choice. They can select the Party that will loot their Government! While the Congress is Sonia Dynasty’s private property, the BJP belongs to the Vajpayee-Advani Parivar. The Regional Party Outfits are worse.The Communists are the only ones to have some genuine democracy.

PILLAR-1 (OFFICIALDOM): In the bureaucracy, government officials are the sleeping partners in every business. It would be easier to find a slim white buffalo, than locate an honest state government official. At the national level, there is still some semblance of governance. Key officials, collectors, SPs, chief engineers, income-sales-excise-commercial tax chiefs make Rs 100,000 a day sharing 10% of that with their political bosses. Instead of paying salaries, India must auction jobs, so that the money goes into the public treasury and not private pockets.

PILLAR-2 (LEGAL): As for the legal system, from Hawala to Land Scams, Telgi to Taj Corridor, Scorpion to Masefield, murder and communal riots, there are innumerable cases involving the highest political functionaries. There is widespread anger that the corrupt are never punished. The question is whether our judges and lawyers can ever provide India with a foolproof system meting out justice in weeks to end decades of decay. That is impossible because the lawyer and the judge are always seeking a Rajya Sabha or a post of Governor from their corrupt Political clients.

PILLAR-3 (BUSINESS): In business, credible businessmen the world over maximise profits, cut costs, improve performance and ensure better management. World-Class Businessmen make their country richer and become richer. Some in India too follow this, and are respected for that. But most businessmen make India poorer to enrich themselves insatiably. Almost anyone involved in business with the government loots the public coffers without delivering the goods. Capitalists are not satisfied with percentages. They want to devour the goose.

PILLAR-4 (MEDIA): As for the media, a democratic society’s success is proportional to its media’s independence, fearlessness and pro-activeness. Some sections of the media are still courageous, but most of it is in cahoots with the wrong guys. Almost every Media Baron, Editor and reporter uses the Media access to cultivate the Corrupt Political Bosses to either enrich themselves or lobby for a Rajya Sabha Nomination. So viewers and readers can easily discern the absence of media morality and the presence of partisan bias in reportage, analysis and election forecasts. The Media nowadays specializes in COVER-UPS and not EXPOSES!

To provide relief to the people from this national charade, God has blessed India with innumerable festivals. Of all these, the Republic Day Parade on January 26 can be called India’s biggest festival. It is the only non-sporting event that generates a nationwide television viewership. It is a patriotic spectacle that binds the children and the youth to the Union. The poor, the unemployed and the toiling classes find a sense of belonging through the parade. The parade is the best way to honour those guarding our borders and those who maintain our internal security. When the honours are announced, explaining the acts of bravery during which our soldiers died, so that we can live, tears roll from every eye, nationwide.

The Republic Day march-past to synchronised drum-beats is a great experience for the eyes, ears, hearts and minds. The display of military hardware communicates a sense of confidence. The cultural extravaganza, the flypasts, all adds to the festive mood. For students and children, it’s a lifetime honour to march in the parade.

Many argue that the parade is an unnecessary tamasha. Their intolerance at the wasting of precious resources is admirable. However, this has to be viewed in the backdrop of the patriotic feelings the parade generates. In terms of the money spent, it is worth it. In fact, the defence, finance, tourism and transport ministries can easily package the Republic Day parade to showcase it as an international tourism event. It can thus even prove to be financially viable. With some imagination and a lot of planning, the parade can even be transformed into the world’s most viewed and attended. The parade symbolises India’s spirit. The Republic Day Parade has to go on, more so, because it offers a relief from the everyday national charade.


There is something to cheer about. While the original pillars of India’s Democracy have perished, new pillars have emerged to uphold the Republic of India. While India is ravaged by this daily charade, there are four pillars that uphold this republic.

NEW PILLAR-1(SOLDIERS) The soldiers who man our borders and the security-men who handle the law and order situation inside the country form the first pillar of this republic.

NEW PILLAR-2 (FARMERS) The millions of farmers who toil away their lives amidst all the heat and dust, battling poverty, without proper access to healthcare, education or a steady income, are the second pillar. Theirs is an impossible life. They are the ones who feed us, keep our economy secure and our import bill within manageable limits. Imagine what would have happened if we had to import food. We would go bankrupt in a decade. The Farmers’ lands are grabbed by the corrupt governments to donate to corrupt racketeers parading as businessmen. Yet the Farmers slog to feed the nation. The Farmers are the New Second Pillar of the republic

NEW PILLAR-3 (SKILLED EMPLOYEES) Lakhs of skilled personnel keep our institutions and infrastructure running. They run the manufacturing, technology, services, communications, traffic systems, schools, colleges, universities, laboratories, hospitals, electricity, water, drainage, industry, exports, science, research, development, libraries and such institutions. They generate revenue for the nation through their expertise in software, communications, technology, bio-technology, space, energy, science, industry, manufacturing, construction, health, tourism, manufacturing and services. The third pillar consists of those who work hard for the salary they take and keep functioning. There are about 10 per cent of the total work force in each institution and organization. They keep India’s infrastructure functioning.They are the New Third Pillar of the republic.

NEW PILLAR-4. Those who inform, educate, enlighten and entertain us. They are in films, music, dance, drama and sports. They inject patriotism, humanism and moral values. Looking at them we forget our despair and anger. They prepare us to keep working to better our future and that of the republic. The entertainers are the New Fourth Pillar of the republic.

On the Republic Day Let us together Salute, the courageous, patriotic and persevering men and women who constitute the Four New Pillars of the Republic of India.
The Political Charade Must Stop. The Republic Parade Must Go On, Forever!

(Send Comments to [email protected] or SMS to +91-9958976000)

[svinayak]

http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=14790

Inconclusive India
by John R. Thomson

07.01.2007

[India is] a living contradiction. Jewels may well be concealed in the cloaks of beggars. . . .India presents a paradox. It is profound and primitive, deeply spiritual and darkly superstitious, both universalistic and maddeningly provincial.

—Dr. Mani Bhaumik

FEW OBSERVERS comment upon India’s paradoxes—whether in the social or cultural sense—as profoundly as Dr. Bhaumik, but paradox is indeed clearly central to the debate regarding the country’s future. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh clearly has a very similar view to Dr. Bhaumik of India’s complex society. The vaunted economist, widely credited with framing India’s sharp turn to a market economy some 15 years ago, has the daunting task of making the fast-growing climate he created work, economically and socially. As one close confidant told me, "Dr. Singh faces our paradoxes several times a day, every day. Thankfully, he remains optimistic."

The conundrum facing India today is this: Which side of the many economic and social paradoxes will prevail? Can enthusiasm and determination reverse the long decline in virtually every sector so that economic—and with it, social—growth will continue? Or will the neglect of decades cause the sensational growth of the last few years to stagnate? The optimists, from Prime Minister Singh to bankers and industrialists and even to small-plot farmers in remote villages—indeed, most Indians—believe the obstacles to continued growth can and will be overcome. If they are wrong, the boom of recent years could well become a blowout.

Coming to a judgment about where India is headed is not easy. Despite year-to-year growth averaging 8.6 percent for the past three years, for every positive indicator there is a conflicting, negative sign. Much of the heavily touted investment and development has occurred near major cities, but most of the 60–70 percent of Indians living in rural areas are barely surviving. The 300 million-strong middle class has access to jobs, services and amenities; the much larger rural-dwelling population gets by, in countless cases, on less than 50 rupees ($1.15) a day.

These society-straining factors have resulted in millions of rural residents invading India’s already teeming metro centers. Greater Delhi, with a population estimated at 32 million, cannot expand basic facilities fast enough to satisfy its middle class, much less the impoverished. And Delhi is not alone. In order for India to maintain its balance as it pursues reform and development, it will need the broad support of the very diverse Indian people—not an easy task.

India and China are frequently depicted as the two Asian Goliaths in hot competition for economic and political leadership. But India’s democratic system has always been more deliberate than Beijing’s authoritarian regime. The Chinese government can, generally speaking, tell the population what to do. The Indian government—once the divisive governing coalition agrees—must convince its citizens to support any given program.

[Rony]

Codifying indigenous ways of building

How do we bring back to our streets the Indian identities they once had? The answer lies in documenting and codifying the many elements of construction in the past, for evolving an architecture with an Indian identity

[ramana]

X-posted from IF as there are a few points to ponder...


[quote]critique of amaresh mishra:

http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2008/01/...on-of-1857.html
by Devendra Swarup

War of Civilisations: India AD 1857, Vol. I, (The Road to Delhi) and The Long Revolution Vol. II by Amaresh Misra, Published by Rupa & Co, 7/16, Ansari Road, Darya Ganj, New Delhi-110 007, Price Rs. 2,500/-

If bulky size and hefty price could be the criteria for judging the quality of a book, then Amaresh Misra's War of Civilisations: India AD 1857, Vol. I & II , deserves to be placed at the top of the huge mount of innumerable books published during the last 150 years on the 1857 Great Revolt. More than 2,000 pages—to be exact 2108, bound in two volumes, elegantly produced by a reputed publisher carry a price of rupees 2,500/- only. Presenting a very impressive look the book claims to be "The true story of India's first war of Independence," implying, thereby that whatever we had read so far was, perhaps, not true.

Its Mumbai based author, Amresh Misra is a freelance journalist, a political commentator, a columnist, a script writer for films and also a historian. More than that he is a political, civil right activist and leader and an anti-communal fighter. His ideological inclination is evident in his "Acknowledgments", wherein he honours "Akhilendra Pratap Singh, ex-president of the Allahabad University Students Union (AUSU), Politbureau member of the CPI-ML (liberation) as his friend, philosopher and guide" and admits that 'several ideas hatched in the book were formulated along with him way back in the 1990s in rugged, reflective, dusty rooms and streets of Allahabad, Lucknow, Benares and other UP-Bihar districts." Misra's other friend Salim Khan Durrani happens to be the anti-communal, anti-fascist resistance hero of Mumbai."

For Misra, history writing is not a detached academic exercise, rather it is part of ideological commitment and activism. He, frankly acknowledges that “during numerous street battles with the police and anti-Muslim, anti-Dalit-fascist lumpen hordes in the late 1980s and 1990s,â€

[ramana]

Is UPA govt India's Yeltsin raj?

[surinder]

[quote="ramana"]X-posted from IF as there are a few points to ponder...


[quote]critique of amaresh mishra:

http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2008/01/...on-of-1857.html
by Devendra Swarup

War of Civilisations: India AD 1857, Vol. I, (The Road to Delhi) and The Long Revolution Vol. II by Amaresh Misra, Published by Rupa & Co, 7/16, Ansari Road, Darya Ganj, New Delhi-110 007, Price Rs. 2,500/-

...

Being an enthusiastic 'anti-communal' crusader, Misra finds that "Aurangzeb did not allow religious matters to interfere in state policy... reimposition of Jazia tax also had logic; far from being a weapon of conversion or discrimination, it was actually meant to provide ideological cohesion to a breath taking, shuddering, heterogeneous Empire" (p. xxx) Misra gives you the "true story" of the construction of Gyanvapi masjid at Benares. In Misra's own words, "The Muslim Kotwal of Varanasi had his eye on a Brahmin's beautiful daughter. Emperor Aurangzeb came to know of this. He went in disguise to Varanasi and catching the Kotwal red handed slew him then and there. The Brahmin had land near the Vishwanath Shiv temple; to show his gratitude he persuaded the Emperor to sanction the building of a mosque on his land. This is how a mosque came to stand near a temple—interestingly Indian, generally pro-British fascist organisations tried making a communal issue out of this in the 1990s." (p. xxx) Poor J.N. Sarkar must be turning in his grave over his ignorance of the "true story"?

...
According to Misra, “Barelvi, following Shah Waliullah's line, combined peasant movement with nationalist anti-British appealsâ€

[ramana]

Op-Ed in Pioneer, 7 Feb. 2008

PM toeing the US line

G Parthasarathy

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh astonished the country after a meeting with President Pervez Musharraf in Havana in September 2006, when he announced that like India, Pakistan was also a "victim" of terrorism. He told his baffled countrymen and the international community that terrorist violence in India was not being perpetrated by the ISI, but by "autonomous jihadi groups." Mr Singh had earlier proclaimed that the dialogue process with Pakistan was "irreversible", suggesting, as a perceptive observer noted that "the threshold of our tolerance for Pakistan's sponsorship of terrorism has no limits". He proudly announced the establishment of a 'Joint Terror Mechanism' with Pakistan, which was to be the magic mantra for ending ISI sponsorship of terrorism. This ill-conceived proposal has fallen by the wayside, with Pakistan renouncing its earlier pledge not to allow "territory under its control" to be used for terrorism against India, by claiming that the violence in Jammu & Kashmir was not terrorism, but a "freedom struggle".

Testimony given by American academic and erstwhile adviser to Under Secretary of State Nicholas Burns, Mr Ashley Tellis, to the House Foreign Affairs Committee on January 16 suggests that Mr Manmohan Singh's comments in Havana may well have been made in order to bring India's foreign policy in line with that of the US, which is determined not to embarrass its favourite General in Islamabad. Describing the US approach to broker a Benazir-Musharraf political alliance, Mr Tellis said that Benazir Bhutto's assassination had "undermined the Administration's efforts to broker a 'marriage of convenience' between Bhutto and Musharraf that would produce a governing dispensation that is civilian in appearance, accept Musharraf's continuance in office, because of his importance to US interests and strengthen the elements of moderation in Pakistan. Bhuttto's violent end instantaneously fractured these goals". Were Mr Manmohan Singh and his aides absolving Gen Musharraf of all responsibility in sponsoring terrorism because of his "importance to US interests," or were they carried away by the American advocacy that Gen Musharraf is our "best bet" also?

Mr Tellis paints a grim scenario ahead for Gen Musharraf, who has pledged that his "re-election" by the outgoing lame duck National Assembly would be submitted to the incoming National Assembly for validation. He notes that Pakistan's people "are tired of both President Musharraf and entrenched military rule", adding, "they are unlikely to give Musharraf the benefit of the doubt if the February elections are marked by gross irregularities". With opinion polls conducted by the International Republican Institute estimating Gen Musharraf's support as varying between 21 per cent and 30 per cent, it is evident that unless the election is massively rigged (a scenario that is not improbable according to Mr Tellis), Gen Musharraf will face an Assembly controlled by his opponents.

According to Mr Tellis, "Musharraf's problems are that he cannot countenance any National Assembly that would not agree to validate his election, or restore Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhury and his associates", who were dismissed for refusing to endorse Gen Musharraf's unconstitutional Provisional Constitution Order, which abrogated fundamental rights. With the new Army Chief Gen Pervez Ashfaq Kayani ordering his officers to stay away from politics and politicians and with around 100 former Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals demanding Gen Musharraf's resignation, the besieged President can hardly expect the Army to rush to his aid, in the event of a political confrontation.

Mr Tellis notes that there are five different types of terrorism emanating from territory under Pakistan's control. First, there is sectarian terrorism (entirely domestic) by extremist Sunni, Wahaabi-oriented groups, like the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. Second, there is terrorism sponsored by groups like the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba and the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen involved in terrorism in Jammu & Kashmir and elsewhere in India. Third, there is the Tehriq-e-Taliban-e-Pakistan led by Baitullah Mehsud, who despite denials, is conveniently accused of masterminding Benazir Bhutto's assassination. This group virtually controls the tribal areas along Pakistan's border with Afghanistan. Fourth, there is the Afghan Taliban led by Mullah Omar operating against the Karzai regime and NATO forces in Afghanistan. And, there is Al Qaeda and its Uzbek and other affiliates operating along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in Waziristan. {What about the TSP Army which has jihad in its motto?}

Mr Tellis states that since September 2001 Gen Musharraf has pursued a "highly differentiated counter-terrorism policy". He has acted against indigenous sectarian outfits like the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Al Qaeda and its "non-South Asian affiliates". Mr Tellis confirms that, in contrast, Gen Musharraf has "largely ignored" terrorist outfits operating against India and dealt with the Taliban controlled by Mullah Omar "more akin to the Kashmiri terrorists and has avoided targeting them (Afghan Taliban) comprehensively. He has specially overlooked their leadership, now resident in and around Quetta". Mr Tellis argues that this selective and nuanced counter-terrorism approach adopted by Gen Musharraf since the ouster of the Taliban in 2001 evidently constitutes the considered strategy of the Pakistan military establishment. "Because the original Taliban and especially its Kandahar leadership is critical to Islamabad's objectives vis-a-vis Afghanistan, just as the Kashmiri terrorist groups vis-a-vis India, the Pakistan state has refrained from attacking them in any significant way," he adds.

The Tellis testimony contains a message for those who express "grudging admiration" for Gen Musharraf, wail that terrorism against India is being conducted by "free lance terrorist groups", and believe that ill-conceived ideas like the 'Joint Terror Mechanism' will end ISI-sponsored terrorism. Mr Tellis concludes: "Even if Musharraf was to suddenly exit the Pakistan political scene at some point, Islamabad's currently discordant counter-terrorism strategy will still survive so long as the 'men on horseback' continue to be principal guardians of national security decision-making in Islamabad".

{The kabila factor that I talk about! In fact in my presentation I have such a horseman on the last slide in case some one asks me what it is all about. Alas they were too tired by the end.}

One cannot, however, agree with the optimism that Mr Tellis expresses on securing Pakistani cooperation to hunt down Al Qaeda leaders. The over six feet tall Osama bin Laden, who suffers from renal failure, requiring regular dialysis, cannot have survived all these years without high quality medical attention, which is hardly available in the mountains of north Waziristan. The Pakistanis fear, not without justification, that should Osama bin Laden meet his end, there will be little prospect of their getting the sort of massive American assistance they now receive. But, more important, one hopes that our Government will get its act together in dealing with continuing acts of terrorism sponsored from across the border. The ISI is set to continue using terrorism as an instrument of state policy, in both India and Afghanistan.

Note GP is an establishment babu whose family has served India since atleast three generations. His father was the legendary adviser to JLN and Mrs G on foreign policy. And he is coming to this concluson.

In a similar mode of thinking I asked if UPA is the Yeltsin raj of India.

[svinayak]

Is UPA govt India's Yeltsin raj?

Yes, Yeltsin was a product of social engineering by the Americans who was the most friendly Russian ever.

[Prem]

X-posted from IF as there are a few points to ponder...


[totallyencounters near Balakot" (p. 192). [/b]

Obviously, the Communist leanings cause brain-deadness and an aversion to truth.

Aurangzeb's killings were not communal. The Brahmin requested that the Temples be raized and Mosques put in its place. Wonderful.

The part about Syed Ahmed Barelvi is interesting too. A historian like this does not know that he died fighting Ranjit Singh. I don't think the secularists in him likes that fact. I wonder why?[/quote]

These are eminent historians. There job is to promote all foreign and demote all Indian .
Ramana,
Manmohan is not Yelstin, he is just being genuine Nehruvian.

[nkumar]

Yes, Yeltsin was a product of social engineering by the Americans who was the most friendly Russian ever.

Yeltsin Raj was followed by Putin Raj in Russia !! Are we going to see the equivalent of Putin Raj in India ??

[svinayak]

Yes, Yeltsin was a product of social engineering by the Americans who was the most friendly Russian ever.

Yeltsin Raj was followed by Putin Raj in Russia !! Are we going to see the equivalent of Putin Raj in India ??

How do you explain the rise of Modi

[derkonig]

Yeltsin Raj was followed by Putin Raj in Russia !! Are we going to see the equivalent of Putin Raj in India ??

How do you explain the rise of Modi

AoA to that..
but modibhai now needs to start, as they say in it-vity, "ramping up" his operations....

[Sanku]

Note GP is an establishment babu whose family has served India since atleast three generations. His father was the legendary adviser to JLN and Mrs G on foreign policy. And he is coming to this concluson.

In a similar mode of thinking I asked if UPA is the Yeltsin raj of India.

I thought this was very significant and was going to post it in IFP thread. Ramana already posted it here.

G.P. saying what he is; is horrendous indictment of the current PM

[ShauryaT]

Is UPA govt India's Yeltsin raj?

Yes, Yeltsin was a product of social engineering by the Americans who was the most friendly Russian ever.

Yes, but the effects will not be as severe due to the institutional structures and an active opposition in India.

[ramana]

Two resources

Library of Congress- India Country study

India Country studies

[John Snow]

Misra has a brother in Minal Suri

His book Age of Shiva was the topic on

http://www.whyy.org/cgi-bin/newwebRTlookup.cgi

[quote][/quote]Thursday 2/7/2008


Hour One
The presidential candidate nomination process – delegates, superdelegates, proportional and winner-take all systems – can make your head spin. And to complicate things, the systems differ from party to party and state to state. We turn to DON KETTL, Penn professor of political science to help us understand it all. Listen to this show via Real Audio

Hour Two
MANIL SURI talks about his second novel, “The Age of Shiva.â€

[ramana]

x-posted...

Just imagine the delight in reading it in Tamil. I am one of those unfortunate lots who did not get schooled in or on his own mother tongue. Though I can read tamil magazines, newspapers ithyadi.... have not gotten the expertise & patience to read tamil novels.

The southern peninsula was an important region for the spice trades. Eastern and Western ports were well utilized. The regions must have been bustling with trade, enterprise, culture and arts.

You too Thambi! Well at least we are able to enjoy it in English. I will buy the five vol set from Macmillan. My favorite part till now is end of part Two when Aditya Karrikal says lets sail and win Lanka, Sumatra, Java, Egypt and Arab lands. This is so expansive none of that soft power BS. This is why I adore the Cholas. And how they integrated their kingdom to include all the folks towards one goal to spread the Chola flag from Kanyakumari to Himalayas. And they did that and more. we need to revive the Choal spirit all over India and get the DIE out.

About PS I like the fast paced story(its over in six months) and the multiple scenarios like vignettes on the canvas sort of simultaneous mosaics being formed which is realistic. And the politics is a practical application of Arthasashtra. Kautilya would be so proud.

anyway here is a commentary

Comments on PS

BTW you are fortunate that you understand Tamil even if you dont read. here is a link for the Mp3 reading


http://www.sruthiloga.esmartweb.com/ponniyinselvan.html

[Neshant]

> Yes, Yeltsin was a product of social engineering by the Americans who
> was the most friendly Russian ever.

Much like a musharaff character, he was a stooge. He would screw his country and bankrupt it. In exchange, western media did its best to keep him in power by confusing the people.

First thing Putin did was get rid of all the NGOs, foreign funded media, foreign funded 'color' revolutionaries, and nationalise Russia's natural resources.

Putting too much power into the hands of one guy is too dangerous. If he turns out to be a stooge or an idiot, the country is in trouble. Have one guy at the top but keep the power base beneath him broad. It might make for a lot of trouble in getting a consensus and slow decision making. But in the long term it gives better stability.

[pradeepe]

x-post from the economy thread.

More power to them. Looking forward to the day in the not too distant future when hardly any material of note gets read without some Indic reference.

In India, Dow Jones Meets Dharma

A new set of indices measuring such characteristics as good governance and eco-friendliness is winning favor with investors and gurus alike

...

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the Indian sage who taught transcendental meditation to the Beatles, died in the Netherlands on Feb. 5. Back in India, a new generation of gurus is promoting the latest thing to hit the Indian stock market: values investing. Not to be confused with Warren Buffett-style value investing, values-based investing draws on the principles of Indian religions such as Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, and Buddhism. Last month Dow Jones (DJ) launched the faith-based Dow Jones Dharma indices, which measure the performance of 254 companies that have characteristics like good governance and environmental friendliness in common.

Letters are pouring in to support the new group of five indices. They are not your typical congratulatory notes, but blessings and endorsements from assorted Indian spiritual leaders and scholars. "May the maximum number of investors utilize it, and thus globally advance core Hindu values," writes Shastri Narayanswarupdas, a religious leader from Ahmedabad in western India. Writes another: "Trust is the breath of business, ethics its limbs, to uplift the spirit its goal."

Praise like that "lends credibility to the index," boasts Nitesh Gor, chief executive officer of Dharma Investments, a faith-based investment boutique from Boulder, Colo., that dreamed up this scheme. Apart from the Dow Jones Dharma Global Index, there are four country-specific Dow Jones Dharma indices, for India, the U.S., Britain, and Japan.

Invest According to Religious Beliefs
Here's how the indices work. Even though there are four country-specific indices, Sumeet Nihalani, senior director for Asia Pacific sales at Dow Jones Indexes, says that the appetite for dharma or faith-based investing is "global and from people of different faiths and nationalities." So asset managers can create global or country-specific products using these indices, enabling Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, and Sikhs to invest in stocks that are in sync with their religious beliefs.

The dharma-compliant stocks, according to Gor, are those that adhere to the precepts relevant to good conduct. They include opposition to animal slaughter, support of the environment, and adherence to good corporate governance. Assorted temples, scholars, and academicians support the idea. Among them are the Jagannath temple, a leading temple in the eastern state of Orissa; Pejawar Math Swami, a spiritual Hindu leader; and Kabil Singh, head of the department of philosophy and religion at Thammasat University in Bangkok.

[ramana]

Video of ancient city in Orissa Find:

http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/58586/arc ... rissa.html

[ramana]

Posting in this thread for it has relevance here than in the TSP thread.

British interests (as viewed from Whitehall, not the colonial bungalow) regarding Pakistan in 1945-47 revolved the idea that both the NW passages to the Subcontinent from Soviet Central Asia, and the sea lanes to the Middle East and Subcontinent had to be secured.

The view of the time was that given the INC's Quit India movement in the middle of the Japanese offensive, it could not be relied upon in another world war.

For those purposes Punjab did not really matter at all - NWFP/Tribal Areas, Sindh and Balochistan were enough.

Nothing in Pakistan beyond that was particularly important to the British - the Attlee government did place a significant value in maintaining a relationship with Nehru and the INC......

Hats off Johann. You have hit the nail on the head vis a vis Western policy towards Indian sub-continent now called Sout Asia.

All those Pentagon maps of redrawing borders of TSP eg. Ralph Peters etc are on similar logic. The main driver is to cut off sub-continental India with the Middle East under some reasoning or the other. And retain independent access to the sea lanes.

And Eastern and Southern Indian sub-continent is ahistorical in Hegelian terms and that accounts for the negligible weight of Bangla Desh and Sri Lanka.

---------------
Shiv and S Sridhar, there were two British centers of policy- Whitehall and the colonial office in Delhi. Hence the dichotomy. And then no one anticipated the success of Sardar Patel and VP Menon in pushing through the princely states accession. I dont think the Indian politicians understand the importance of the states accession for that gave them gravitas in the world community and allowed them to survive the various blows- 1947 Kashmir invasion., 1962, 1965, 1971 and Kargil. Small states for petty reasons(groupism) will lead to redux of the Battle of Terrain in 1192.

[svinayak]

Hats off Johann. You have hit the nail on the head vis a vis Western policy towards Indian sub-continent now called Sout Asia.

All those Pentagon maps of redrawing borders of TSP eg. Ralph Peters etc are on similar logic. The main driver is to cut off sub-continental India with the Middle East under some reasoning or the other. And retain independent access to the sea lanes.

And Eastern and Southern Indian sub-continent is ahistorical in Hegelian terms and that accounts for the negligible weight of Bangla Desh and Sri Lanka.

---------------
Shiv and S Sridhar, there were two British centers of policy- Whitehall and the colonial office in Delhi. Hence the dichotomy. And then no one anticipated the success of Sardar Patel and VP Menon in pushing through the princely states accession. I dont think the Indian politicians understand the importance of the states accession for that gave them gravitas in the world community and allowed them to survive the various blows- 1947 Kashmir invasion., 1962, 1965, 1971 and Kargil. Small states for petty reasons(groupism) will lead to redux of the Battle of Terrain in 1192.

The British had not come to India for picking roses. They had not come to India because they had fallen for her fauna and flora, or her folk dances, or her mysticism and metaphysics. On the contrary, they had come here for the very prosaic purpose of conquering, consolidating and conserving an empire which had proved progressively more profitable to them, and which was soon to catapult them from the status of a second-rate European nation to that of the most formidable world-power. They would not have been worth their salt if they had not played the patent game of all imperialists, in all ages.

After world war II the same policy was progressively more profitable for US by aligning with Pakistan and helping Pakistan to align closely with KSA and Middle east. US made the most of aligning with Pakistan while ignoring India. It sealed US close relationship with KSA and middle east till 911.

[Paul]

Posting in this thread for it has relevance here than in the TSP thread.

British interests (as viewed from Whitehall, not the colonial bungalow) regarding Pakistan in 1945-47 revolved the idea that both the NW passages to the Subcontinent from Soviet Central Asia, and the sea lanes to the Middle East and Subcontinent had to be secured.

The view of the time was that given the INC's Quit India movement in the middle of the Japanese offensive, it could not be relied upon in another world war.

For those purposes Punjab did not really matter at all - NWFP/Tribal Areas, Sindh and Balochistan were enough.

Nothing in Pakistan beyond that was particularly important to the British - the Attlee government did place a significant value in maintaining a relationship with Nehru and the INC......

Hats off Johann. You have hit the nail on the head vis a vis Western policy towards Indian sub-continent now called South Asia.

All those Pentagon maps of redrawing borders of TSP eg. Ralph Peters etc are on similar logic. The main driver is to cut off sub-continental India with the Middle East under some reasoning or the other. And retain independent access to the sea lanes.

And Eastern and Southern Indian sub-continent is ahistorical in Hegelian terms and that accounts for the negligible weight of Bangla Desh and Sri Lanka.

---------------
Shiv and S Sridhar, there were two British centers of policy- Whitehall and the colonial office in Delhi. Hence the dichotomy. And then no one anticipated the success of Sardar Patel and VP Menon in pushing through the princely states accession. I dont think the Indian politicians understand the importance of the states accession for that gave them gravitas in the world community and allowed them to survive the various blows- 1947 Kashmir invasion., 1962, 1965, 1971 and Kargil. Small states for petty reasons(groupism) will lead to redux of the Battle of Terrain in 1192.

I am still not convinced that that this could be the tipping point for the Brits to back the Muslim league in the post cold war era.

There was a third alternative for the British to work with - The Hindu Mahasabha. Veer Savarkar had openly asked hindus to support the war effort by joining the Indian army in large numbers. If the Brits had taken the hint, they would have worked with the RSS and other Hindu organizations to build up an alternative to the INC. No reason to support that megalomaniac Jinnah. Support to the Savarkar and other nationalists would have undercut the Hindu support base of the INC and this is what sustained them. About 5- 10 years of sustained effort should have done the job.

Similarly, in the middle east British interests clashed with the Zionists who had openly supported them against the Axis for obvious reasons.

[svinayak]

I am still not convinced that that this could be the tipping point for the Brits to back the Muslim league in the post cold war era.

There was a third alternative for the British to work with - The Hindu Mahasabha. Veer Savarkar had openly asked hindus to support the war effort by joining the Indian army in large numbers. If the Brits had taken the hint, they would have worked with the RSS and other Hindu organizations to build up an alternative to the INC. No reason to support that megalomaniac Jinnah. Support to the Savarkar and other nationalists would have undercut the Hindu support base of the INC and this is what sustained them. About 5- 10 years of sustained effort should have done the job.

Similarly, in the middle east British interests clashed with the Zionists who had openly supported them against the Axis for obvious reasons.

Very simple answer for all of these questions. Hindus are considered Pagans no matter how rich or large in number. So there is no history of aligning with Pagan military by the modern western states in the last 200 years.

[Paul]

Exactly....as simple as that. Accept this as the gospel and move on.

We are indulging in needless hair splitting and trying to find non-existent common ground between the west and India.

[ramana]

IISC Archives Link to Mahatma Gandhi's speech in 1927:

http://archives.iisc.ernet.in/iisc_mem_gandhi_visit.htm


Archives:

http://archives.iisc.ernet.in/index.htm

read the foundation day speech by the Mysore Maharaja.

Great visionaries and great follow through to fullfil the vision. there was very good reason the Dewan offered the land in Mysore for this place of higher learning.

-------------
You get the idea from here:

http://archives.iisc.ernet.in/iisc_tata_vivek_kalam.htm

Awesome.

[Gus]

x-posted...

You too Thambi! Well at least we are able to enjoy it in English. I will buy the five vol set from Macmillan. My favorite part till now is end of part Two when Aditya Karrikal says lets sail and win Lanka, Sumatra, Java, Egypt and Arab lands. This is so expansive none of that soft power BS. This is why I adore the Cholas. And how they integrated their kingdom to include all the folks towards one goal to spread the Chola flag from Kanyakumari to Himalayas. And they did that and more. we need to revive the Choal spirit all over India and get the DIE out.

About PS I like the fast paced story(its over in six months) and the multiple scenarios like vignettes on the canvas sort of simultaneous mosaics being formed which is realistic. And the politics is a practical application of Arthasashtra. Kautilya would be so proud.

If you liked Kalki's Ponniyin Selvan, you would also like Sandilyan's many novels. I hope somebody has translated his works in English and other languages. Some of his works are Kadal Pura (sea dove) about a Pallava generals exploits in Kalinga (now Orissa) and Nakkavara theevugal (Nicobar islands) etc. Another personal favorite is Jala Deepam - about a Tamil soldier finding his way into Kanhoji Angre (a Maratha warlord) in the aftermath of Shivaji and it is about the struggle between rising British influence, waning Portuguese influence, Abyssinian pirates (some of whose descendants are still in India, assimilated as Indians), Maratha intrigues etc. Another one about the Hun invasion of NW India. You will fall in love with those books. They are smaller (one or two volumes) and they have all the ingredients you love in Ponniyin Selvan.

I would also recommend Akilan's book Vetri Thirunagar (Vijayanagar). One of the best I have read on the empire.

Unfortunately I only have Tamil copies with me of all these books. Else I would have offered to lend you these.

[Prem]

-------------
You get the idea from here:

http://archives.iisc.ernet.in/iisc_tata_vivek_kalam.htm

Awesome.

Amazing . This is the worlk of Providence.

My grandfather sent his younger brother to study engineering in US that time. It so happen that young Chain sahib was one of the few first engineers hired by Sr Tata at Tatanagar plant.

[JwalaMukhi]

The islamism ideology is not a serious challenge, not yet anyways to the west, and if it becomes necessary west has enough confidence to confine it to dustbin of history. West is also encouraged that it can defeat the communist ideology. West is correctly and supremely confident at this point in history that its ideology is far superior than either islamism, communism, dictatorship. Hence, west does make use of these inferior ideologies as tools in its arsenal to control non-western societies. This promotes resource grabbing ability of the west and for which west is pastmaster. West is a master in winning zero sum games and indulges in converting as many of them as possible to zero sum. This is where the democractic sham kicks in. Democracy is genuine within the borders of west, for the rest of the world are merely considered as raw resource to be skinned in any fashion for consumption of west. Human and humanity calculus does not enter the picture. West's ideology derived from deserts is all about efficiently grabbing resources. This is not just plain greed, but also subversion to keep the rest of the world a notch below west, in the totem pole. Hence, the lamentation about Europe not being a monolith from time to time, as it would fortify the present world order. Alternate world views that are better cannot exist in such setups.

The dharmic ideology will challenge this flawed democractic setup that indulges in resource grabbing. Humanity and human calculus is paramount in dharmic setup. Dharmic ideology will call for reformation of democractic setup to be more dharmic. This will trigger the clash, as this will be most serious challenge to west's ideology in the long term. And the best case to promote the ideology will spring from Indic thoughts and India whose size is very crucial. The resistance from the West will take many shapes and forms such as use of communism, islamism, EJism, subversion of genuine democracy, trimming the size of India so it does not matter,etc. All these forces have to be defeated there are no two ways about it.

The idea that pooh-poohs: when islamism is removed and if India went back to its roots of kings and kingdoms, milk and honey will flow in its land, is basically flawed for it failed in its intellectual grasp. The idea is not about kings and kingdoms. Democracy is not the lone setup for all times to be dharmic. Any dharmic setup will and should do the job, does not matter which color the cat is as long as it catches mice. Democractic set up has the best potential to be under the ambit of dharmic setup currently and hence is desirable. Democracy alone is not sufficient for dharma. It is certain that islamism, for that matter any of the desert based ideologies fail crucial dharmic principles. Hence calling for removal of such ideologies does not mean to replace it with a SDRE version of non-dharmic setup. India has been fortunate enough to develop the dharmic ideology which involves in respecting all views that promote and establish dharma as genuine views of the world. India, being fortunate with legacies of Krishna, Arjuna etc, owes to itself (and rest of the world(rahu kethu option for TSP)) to help establish, promote and protect dharma. This should be the manifest destiny of India. The 'sagar manthan' episode should provide inspiration for dealing with halahals, amritham and rogues rahu and kethu.

Dharma requires asthras of all hues more than enuf to fend off existential threat to its territorial integrity. When Indic roots are acknowledged and India's manifest destiny is understood, then there will be no sannata to oppose CRE or other scams that limit dharmic capability.
The Indian polictical class needs to learn that India's manifest destiny should be pursued, and India cannot beholden to sham democractic setups and become underlings of snake oil ideologies. Failure of pursuing dharma can be seen: in how the TSP political class is reduced to wear red dress and walk the streets in the global arena. Political class which does not look for inspiration from India's heritage will be content with walking the streets albeit with smug satisfaction of wearing not only red dress but also of different colors in the global arena.

[ramana]

Op-ed in Pioneer, 28 Feb 2008

A weak Centre is recipe for disaster
A weak Government at the Centre often fails on all fronts. People want a strong Government, which can deal with problems with a firm hand. Ironically though, they vote for a weak Government as was the case in 2004.

Where does the weakness lie? In a Parliament of 543 members, the Congress has 143 members, which is almost one fourth of the strength. Therefore, the alliances. In the last four years, we have seen the working of the UPA. Uncertainty, insecurity, alarmingly rising prices of essential commodities, blatant violation of constitutional spirit, Muslim appeasement, least care for external security, loss of prestige of constitutional bodies, failure on the important issues of disinvestments and the nuclear deal with the US are some of the hallmarks of this weak Government.


Most supporters of the UPA are habitual blackmailers. Does the Centre have a face to show when the like of Lalu Yadav are an integral part of the Government? The CPM did not allow even one month to pass without keeping the Damocles sword hanging on the Government for some fake ideological reasons. All ideology surreptitiously passed the exit gates. Finance Minister P Chidambaram said the present levies and surcharges were initiated by the NDA Government and the UPA hardly added any new surcharge. But, he never misses the chance to take the credit for the increasing revenue collections.


The momentum generated by NDA has been lost in the last four years. The GDP growth rate in 2004 was 8.6 per cent; it is hovering around the same figure as per statements of responsible officials and Ministers. The golden quadrilateral is moving at a snail's speed. The story of power generation and other infrastructure projects is the same. Not that Chidambaram is an incapable FM but he has been incapacitated by the CPM. Example: Disinvestments stalled.

We all know that there are no permanent enemies or friends in international relations. Every country watches its own national interests. Those who are in the know of Indo-US relations are aware of anti-India moves of the US but, they also know that Indo-US relations, of late, have brightened up. This columnist does not hold any brief for the nuclear energy deal for civil purposes. Some amendments that suit India needed to be negotiated but, the CPM vetoed it. With reference to Pakistan, we can regard the US as an unfriendly friend.

The UPA is run in the name of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. But, all important decisions are taken at 10 Janpath. This tantamounts to dual infirmity. That he whose friends are Communists needs no enemies stands proven again. An alliance is known by the partners it has -- Lalu on the one hand, Ram Vilas Paswan, Shibu Soren and the comrades on the other! Speaks volumes!

The Centre has been pouncing on Mulayam Singh and Mayawati for the same crime which has been committed by its Cabinet colleague Lalu Yadav.

Obviously, a weak Government has to compromise on many points and thus the cost of weakness in enormous.

The Economist of January 29 published from London, has written on India's defence capability under the headlines "India's Army unfit for Service". Indian Army is short of 11,000 officers almost a quarter of the total muster. Military academy in Dehradun currently filled 86 officers of its 250 places. The number of armed forces has also decreased. Till four years back India had an edge over Pakistan as far as weapons was concerned. Thanks to the US, they have supplied superior weapons and other fighting armaments. The Economist concluded, "in order to match India's rise to global importance, the Army needs many things: More money, better technology, coherent foreign policy." Most of the facts mentioned in The Economist are well known in the Army and among defence experts and these are for external security.

The POTA was designed to deal with the terrorists. It was effective. But it was ceremoniously done away. What signal its repeal gave to the terrorists.

Probably, that we as a nation are more concerned with the civil liberties of terrorists than basic rights of the citizens. That too was the result of vote-bank politics of a weak Government.

What is the remedy? Remedy lies with the citizens, those who vote. If they don't give majority or near majority or at least manageable majority as NDA had, how can a Government be strong, and firm to deal with the problems.

In the past four years, India has gone wrong on defence, internal security, law and order, rising prices and other important areas.

People have to be told that in a Lok Sabha poll, they can't follow narrow loyalties and then expect to get a good Government. The Centre can manage instability in States. But if there is an unstable Centre, who will manage the country and its complex affairs?

[nkumar]

A good column by Tarun Vijay, below are the last few para's which are more relevant to this thread. I think this is the first we are seeing the use of words like 'dhimmitude' in paper like TOI. Good progress.

The blessed path

Today the battle is ideological being fought by ill-equipped warriors of different hues. Some understand it a personal play and keep their organization a private limited corporate business trading votes for some considerations. The long-term players with ideological commitments can wait patiently to find the opportune time for the final victory. That alone will help and not the impatience leading to unsavoury compromises. There has to be a paradigm shift in our approach and idioms that we use to address the youth. That alone is going to lead the war of ideologies. The myth of Aryan invasion, a Dhimmitude directing our polity and actions, intense hateful assaults on anything Hindu and spineless responses by an ill-informed crowd that represents the durbari class of Raibahadurs of the colonial period, absence of unity of purpose and the threat of barbaric intolerance can be faced with an uncompromising and unapologetic pride in being Indian inheritors of a great Hindu civilization.

Being a Hindu should be an elevating and enriching factor of our life instead of making us feel embarrassed. Sri Aurobindo had clearly and unambiguously defined our nationalism as Sanatan Dharma, the eternal righteousness that defines what people understand as Hinduism. None has ever said that Sri Aurobindo was communal, so why do have fear today? He believed in the great destiny of India and gave us a path that was universal yet distinctly Indian. Why hesitate to redefine it and adopt for contemporary polity? Defeating ideologies incompatible with the contemporary values of egalitarianism and plurality should form our foundation of nationalism which strives for material progress and ecological safeguards too as an essential part of Hindu dharma. As much as 1.25 lakh sq km of our land is in enemy possession; this, as well as two flags for Kashmir fluttering over Srinagar Secretariat and the killing and uprooting of patriots should hurt us, give us sleepless nights and steel our resolve to undo the wrongs.

Our entire approach to science and technological advances has to be tested on the touchstone of ecological safety and human happiness with an integral approach to all creations, overwriting the consumerist approach.

Those who fear war get war and those who are ashamed at being what they are get nothing but shame from everyone. Never say yes when you ought to say no and never compromise on basic issues. That's what those who have an ideological commitment declare. Rest, simply pass time.