Again, this is about building the "ecosystem" of a high-end manufacturing network. Mass-production of high-end components will build up process expertise, nurture the engineering base, and ultimately lead to a broadening and deepening of high-margin high-value manufacturing in India.
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1151106
This is not about mere cabins. This is about gaining footholds that will last, and that will give us entry into important sectors where we can show off our natural talent base. Just like Tata buying General Chemicals -- they're buying customers and orders, and not mere assets.
What the hell is so great about a damned Call Centre? What's so marvelous about answering a phone, so that some irate jackass can yell at you? It's a foot in the door, that's what it is. And by getting our foot in the door, we've been quickly expanding our presence beyond it.
India's low-cost engineering will give Boeing real gains. And in the ferocious competition of the aerospace industry, that significant competitive advantage will make waves in the industry. Everyone will be forced to come up with an 'India strategy' and seek out an Indian partner, in order to partake of the benefits we offer, or else face being wiped out by their competitors who have already done so.
We will keep expanding upmarket, because we're offering real value that they can't ignore. The lure of the MCA contract bidding may have brought them to us, but once they see what we can really do, then this reality will create an appeal and a momentum all its own.
This scenario can play out just like the IT boom did, and I feel it will.
Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments
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ranganathan
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Repeating the same rubbish does not make something come true. How many Migs, Jags and ajeets did HAL build? Did that help them develop LCA quickly? Simply making components and accessories for Sikorsky will not turn tata into an aeronautical company. They will have to start from scratch on their own design. I hope they are able to do that. They don't need any brand name to sell their products in India or to Indian armed forces, TATA is a brand in itself.
I'm talking about export customers, just like the ones that our automotive parts manufacturers sell to. It's not like there are scores of domestic OEM automobile manufacturers in India. Our automotive parts industry was built up by various Indian outfits getting ISO certification and then putting in lower bids on foreign orders.
It's not like Nano, Indica, etc have been around for a long time now, so that Indian partsmakers could have started out by supplying to them. It is by competing on the international market for exports that our auto parts supply industry mainly improved, and not by limiting themselves to domestic markets.
If you think that making parts for Saras is going to give India a big aerospace manufacturing base, then you're mistaken. We should certainly seek to supply to foreign OEMs, and not just our own projects. We can compete on cost, and we can rake in the forex $$$$.
Thinking of the aerospace industry only as means to get us an LCA/MCA is narrow blinkered thinking, just like thinking that the IT industry is only a means to get us another Param.
I'm glad that Indian partsmakers will be increasingly catching the attention of foreign customers in the aerospace sector. The resulting wave of high-end manufacturing could become like another IT boom.
It's not like Nano, Indica, etc have been around for a long time now, so that Indian partsmakers could have started out by supplying to them. It is by competing on the international market for exports that our auto parts supply industry mainly improved, and not by limiting themselves to domestic markets.
If you think that making parts for Saras is going to give India a big aerospace manufacturing base, then you're mistaken. We should certainly seek to supply to foreign OEMs, and not just our own projects. We can compete on cost, and we can rake in the forex $$$$.
Thinking of the aerospace industry only as means to get us an LCA/MCA is narrow blinkered thinking, just like thinking that the IT industry is only a means to get us another Param.
I'm glad that Indian partsmakers will be increasingly catching the attention of foreign customers in the aerospace sector. The resulting wave of high-end manufacturing could become like another IT boom.
Short answer: No.How many Migs, Jags and ajeets did HAL build? Did that help them develop LCA quickly?
Long answer: There were two camps, one of which wanted to modify the MiG-21 (proposed by a prof at Bombay IIT). Dr. Valuri had diff mind set. Rather long story to discuss here.
However, today the env is diff and cannot be compared to those days. For one India has financial clout, they also have a bargaining chip in software. What they do not have - yet - IMHO of course, is experience in using all this to make (quick) gains.
All this has to come. This is not a Saudi state.
Tata Group to bid for $1bn army deal
linkThe Tata Group today unveiled plans to form a partnership with European defence and aerospace consortium EADS to bid for the Indian Army's $1 billion advanced tactical communication system project.
This is the third defence-related project announced by the Tata Group in the past three days.
The other two are a joint venture with major aircraft manufacturer Boeing to produce aerospace components in India and a contract with US-based Sikorsky Helicopters to build cabins for S-92 choppers.
Tata Advanced Systems, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tata Industries, and other group companies would join hands with EADS Defence and Security, US-based Raytheon and Precision Electronics to bid for the army's communication system.
The tactical communications system project, which is expected to be announced later this year, is aimed at replacing the current AREN system using the latest and most sophisticated technologies making it a fully mobile communication system.
The new system would put the Indian Army at par with the most sophisticated tactical mobile systems currently being developed for deployment around the globe.
Tata Group chairman Ratan Tata said his group recognised the national importance of the project, and "with a view to leveraging the capabilities of several Tata companies, we propose to implement the project through a new umbrella company -- Tata Advanced Systems."
Link
[quote]Tata Advanced Sys explore opportunity with Urban Aeronautic
2008-02-16 14:24:37
TATA Advanced Systems has announced today at the DEFEXPO 2008 exhibition in New Delhi, India, that they are jointly exploring opportunities with Urban Aeronautics from Israel for marketing and manufacturing of unmanned aerial vehicles based on UrbanAero’s patented Fancraft™ technology for the Indian market. Tata Industries has also invested in Urban Aeronautics. Tata Advanced Systems is a wholly owned subsidiary of Tata Industries and is focused on providing integrated solutions for Defence and Aerospace
Founded by Dr. Rafi Yoeli, Urban Aeronautics has established an early lead in developing technology that will enable a family of Vertical Take Off and Landing (VTOL) aircraft with no exposed rotors. The entire family of Fancraftâ„¢ that would be developed using this technology is uniquely suited to flying and operating inside of complex urban and natural environments. The Fancraftâ„¢ technology developed at UrbanAero could result in a number of operational vehicles in various markets.
Currently in development at UrbanAero are technology demonstrators in three sizes:
· X-Hawk, a manned, twin turbine powered FAA certifiable version with a capacity of 12 persons including the pilot,
· Panda, a small, electrically powered surveillance aircraft, and,
· MULE, a single turbine powered unmanned aircraft for military re-supply and Medical Evacuation (MedEvac) operations with a payload capacity of 250 kilograms.
Urban Aeronautics is showcasing its technology, including a scale model of its proposed MULE UAV in the Tata Pavilion at the DefExpo in Hall No 12 at Pragati Maidan New Delhi.
A Tata Advanced Systems spokesperson, said: "Tata Advanced Systems is pleased to be associated with Urban Aeronautics, which is developing innovative unmanned vehicles based on its patented Fancraftâ„¢ technology. We believe these unmanned vehicles can have multiple applications for Defence and civilian applications in India.â€
[quote]Tata Advanced Sys explore opportunity with Urban Aeronautic
2008-02-16 14:24:37
TATA Advanced Systems has announced today at the DEFEXPO 2008 exhibition in New Delhi, India, that they are jointly exploring opportunities with Urban Aeronautics from Israel for marketing and manufacturing of unmanned aerial vehicles based on UrbanAero’s patented Fancraft™ technology for the Indian market. Tata Industries has also invested in Urban Aeronautics. Tata Advanced Systems is a wholly owned subsidiary of Tata Industries and is focused on providing integrated solutions for Defence and Aerospace
Founded by Dr. Rafi Yoeli, Urban Aeronautics has established an early lead in developing technology that will enable a family of Vertical Take Off and Landing (VTOL) aircraft with no exposed rotors. The entire family of Fancraftâ„¢ that would be developed using this technology is uniquely suited to flying and operating inside of complex urban and natural environments. The Fancraftâ„¢ technology developed at UrbanAero could result in a number of operational vehicles in various markets.
Currently in development at UrbanAero are technology demonstrators in three sizes:
· X-Hawk, a manned, twin turbine powered FAA certifiable version with a capacity of 12 persons including the pilot,
· Panda, a small, electrically powered surveillance aircraft, and,
· MULE, a single turbine powered unmanned aircraft for military re-supply and Medical Evacuation (MedEvac) operations with a payload capacity of 250 kilograms.
Urban Aeronautics is showcasing its technology, including a scale model of its proposed MULE UAV in the Tata Pavilion at the DefExpo in Hall No 12 at Pragati Maidan New Delhi.
A Tata Advanced Systems spokesperson, said: "Tata Advanced Systems is pleased to be associated with Urban Aeronautics, which is developing innovative unmanned vehicles based on its patented Fancraftâ„¢ technology. We believe these unmanned vehicles can have multiple applications for Defence and civilian applications in India.â€
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vina
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The New York Times
February 16, 2008
Tata, EADS to Bid Jointly For Indian Army Project
By REUTERS
Filed at 5:17 a.m. ET
MUMBAI (Reuters) - India's Tata Advanced Systems said on Saturday it planned to form a partnership with an arm of European plane-maker EADS <EAD.PA> to bid for the Indian Army's $1 billion tactical communications system project.
Tata Consultancy Services <TCS.BO>, India's largest software service exporter, and Tata Power SED would also partner EADS Defense & Security in the project expected to be announced later this year, the company said in a statement.
EADS Defense & Security would be the system design authority responsible for the network architectural design and integration, the statement said.
Separately, Tata Advanced Systems said it would jointly explore opportunities with Israel's Urban Aeronautics for manufacturing and marketing unmanned aerial vehicles.
(Reporting by Arpan Mukherjee; Editing by Mike Peacock)
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Rudranathh
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Defence Procurement Procedure 2008 almost ready, says Antony
Sat, Feb 16 07:00 PM
New Delhi, Feb 16 (ANI): Union Defence Minister A K Antony today said that the Defence Procurement Procedure 2008 will be ready in April and will offer an important role to the Indian private sector industry which has received a fillip through the offset policy.
He said that the DPP-2008 is being fine-tuned with a great deal of diligence after taking into account the suggestions received from various stakeholders including the services and the industry.
The new policy will address concerns and opinions of various stakeholders relating to issues like banking of offset credits, Transfer of Technology (ToT), licensing requirement for software industry and so on, Antony said.
He stressed the need for far greater synergy between the private players and the government.
Speaking to reporters after inauguration of the DEFEXPO-08 here today, Antony said that participation of 273 foreign companies and 202 Indian companies indicates the growth of Indian defence production industry.
He said that purchase of the equipments for the armed forces is done in a transparent manner, and categorically ruled out allowing middlemen or commission agents in defence deals.
Antony said the government's stand on the issue is very clear - "No question of middlemen in defence deals."
He ruled out any compromise on transparency. "Of course, we cancelled two-three contracts. Do you want us to compromise on transparency? Even at a later stage when we find something is wrong somewhere, we are not concerned about the status of the company; we will cancel it," he said.
Giving a detailed reply on the status of the Light Combat Aircraft being developed by the DRDO at the Hindustan Aeronautics at Bangalore, Antony said major breakthroughs in the project have been achieved in recent times and he is confident that "it will be in the sky within a few years."
Successful trial flights have taken place of the Light Combat Aircraft. While the airframes have been manufactured in India, presently the engines are imported. The Kaveri engine, which has been undergoing tests in Russia, is yet to be cleared.
Defence Minister Antony said today that the Indian Air Force, which was not willing to accept even one of this aircraft earlier, has now decided to receive two squadrons, indicating their confidence in the aircraft.
The Defence Minister said negotiations are on for a suitable partnership for the development of a fully operational Kaveri engine. "It may take some more time but "we will not abandon the project," he declared.
The DEFEXPO India exhibition was conceptualised in the year 1998 by the Department of Defence Production, Ministry of Defence, in partnership with the Confederation of Indian Industry with an objective to promote defence exports from India and at the same time exhibit the capabilities of Indian Defence research and development and production.
The DEFEXPO India exhibition, which began in 1999 with 197 exhibitors, has grown to one of the most internationally recognised defence exhibitions in the world, with a total of 475 exhibitors, of which foreign exhibitors are 273 and Indian exhibitors are 202.
For the first time in DEFEXPO-08 both Telecom and IT companies will be showcasing their products and services.
Forty-seven official delegations would be visiting DEFEXPO India 2008 including six ministerial delegations from Afghanistan, Belarus, Ghana, Mozambique, Namibia and Nigeria.
International participation in DEFEXPO- 08 is from over 30 countries, displaying an array of technology and new products.
Countries participating include Australia, Belarus, Australia, Belarus, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Norway, Poland, Russia, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Netherlands, UAE, UK, Ukraine and the US.
The US delegation is the largest delegation with 46 companies participating in the DEFEXPO-08 followed but Russian delegation, which has participation from 43 companies.
Sat, Feb 16 07:00 PM
New Delhi, Feb 16 (ANI): Union Defence Minister A K Antony today said that the Defence Procurement Procedure 2008 will be ready in April and will offer an important role to the Indian private sector industry which has received a fillip through the offset policy.
He said that the DPP-2008 is being fine-tuned with a great deal of diligence after taking into account the suggestions received from various stakeholders including the services and the industry.
The new policy will address concerns and opinions of various stakeholders relating to issues like banking of offset credits, Transfer of Technology (ToT), licensing requirement for software industry and so on, Antony said.
He stressed the need for far greater synergy between the private players and the government.
Speaking to reporters after inauguration of the DEFEXPO-08 here today, Antony said that participation of 273 foreign companies and 202 Indian companies indicates the growth of Indian defence production industry.
He said that purchase of the equipments for the armed forces is done in a transparent manner, and categorically ruled out allowing middlemen or commission agents in defence deals.
Antony said the government's stand on the issue is very clear - "No question of middlemen in defence deals."
He ruled out any compromise on transparency. "Of course, we cancelled two-three contracts. Do you want us to compromise on transparency? Even at a later stage when we find something is wrong somewhere, we are not concerned about the status of the company; we will cancel it," he said.
Giving a detailed reply on the status of the Light Combat Aircraft being developed by the DRDO at the Hindustan Aeronautics at Bangalore, Antony said major breakthroughs in the project have been achieved in recent times and he is confident that "it will be in the sky within a few years."
Successful trial flights have taken place of the Light Combat Aircraft. While the airframes have been manufactured in India, presently the engines are imported. The Kaveri engine, which has been undergoing tests in Russia, is yet to be cleared.
Defence Minister Antony said today that the Indian Air Force, which was not willing to accept even one of this aircraft earlier, has now decided to receive two squadrons, indicating their confidence in the aircraft.
The Defence Minister said negotiations are on for a suitable partnership for the development of a fully operational Kaveri engine. "It may take some more time but "we will not abandon the project," he declared.
The DEFEXPO India exhibition was conceptualised in the year 1998 by the Department of Defence Production, Ministry of Defence, in partnership with the Confederation of Indian Industry with an objective to promote defence exports from India and at the same time exhibit the capabilities of Indian Defence research and development and production.
The DEFEXPO India exhibition, which began in 1999 with 197 exhibitors, has grown to one of the most internationally recognised defence exhibitions in the world, with a total of 475 exhibitors, of which foreign exhibitors are 273 and Indian exhibitors are 202.
For the first time in DEFEXPO-08 both Telecom and IT companies will be showcasing their products and services.
Forty-seven official delegations would be visiting DEFEXPO India 2008 including six ministerial delegations from Afghanistan, Belarus, Ghana, Mozambique, Namibia and Nigeria.
International participation in DEFEXPO- 08 is from over 30 countries, displaying an array of technology and new products.
Countries participating include Australia, Belarus, Australia, Belarus, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Norway, Poland, Russia, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Netherlands, UAE, UK, Ukraine and the US.
The US delegation is the largest delegation with 46 companies participating in the DEFEXPO-08 followed but Russian delegation, which has participation from 43 companies.
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Nayak
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Tata's in MoU with Sikorsky for manufacture of S-92 helicopter cabins
16 February 2008
Sikorsky Aircraft Corp has announced the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding with Tata Advanced Systems to manufacture S-92 helicopter cabins in India. Sikorsky is a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp.
Tata Advanced Systems is a newly formed Tata Group umbrella company, and an wholly owned subsidiary of Tata Industries, focused on providing integrated solutions for defence and aerospace tapping the resources of a number of Tata Group companies.
The Tata Group is one of India's oldest, and largest, conglomerates with businesses spread over seven sectors and is formed of 98 companies operating on six continents.
''India represents an expansive rotorcraft market with enormous potential and opportunity,'' said Sikorsky president Jeffrey P Pino. ''While we are only in the most preliminary of stages, I am most excited at the possibility of working with the well known and admired Tata Group, and tapping into India's skilled aerospace industry and capability.''
Tata Industries believes that this manufacturing facility for the S-92 helicopter cabin will offer productivity gains to Sikorsky while bringing new manufacturing technology to India.
The S-92 cabin will be displayed at the Tata Pavilion at the Defexpo 2008 show in New Delhi beginning from 16 February 2008.
US company Sikorsky Aircraft Corp, is a world leader in helicopter design, manufacturing and service and an early pioneer in helicopter development. United Technologies Corp, provides a broad range of high technology products and support services to the aerospace and building systems industries.
The Tata Group is one of India's largest and most respected business conglomerates, with revenues in 2006-07 of $28.8 billion (Rs129,994 crore). Tata companies together employ over 300,000 people.
Hey, I'm definitely in favour of all this outsourcing to the private sector. Forget about building everything through state enterprises. Let's build up the community of defense contractors, and reap the benefits of their superior professionalism.
Tata Bids for Army Communications System Contract
Tata Bids for Army Communications System Contract
Tata Group to bid for $1bn army deal
BS Reporter / Mumbai February 16, 2008
Tata Advanced Systems unveiled plans to form a partnership with the European defence and aerospace consortium EADS to bid for the Indian Army’s $1 billion advanced tactical communications system project. The project is expected to be announced later this year.
Tata Advanced Systems, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Tata Industries, along with Tata Consultancy Services and Tata Power, is joining forces with EADS Defence & Security (EADS DS), a global defence Lead Systems Integrator, Raytheon and Precision Electronics.
The proposed $1 billion Indian Army tactical communications system is intended to replace its current AREN system using the latest and most sophisticated technologies making it a fully mobile communication system.
The new system would put the Indian Army at par with the most sophisticated tactical mobile systems currently being developed for deployment around the globe.
Ratan N Tata, chairman, Tata Group, said: "The Tatas recognise the significance of this project of national importance and therefore with a view to leveraging the capabilities of several Tata companies, we propose to implement the project through a new umbrella company - Tata Advanced Systems Limited. We believe that the above approach will synergise the group's relevant capabilities for the project and provide a single interface for the Indian Army."
Stefan Zoller, CEO, EADS Defence and Security, said: "EADS Defence & Security and Tata can design and deliver one of the most sophisticated battlefield communications systems in the world, and at the same time, will make a significant contribution to India’s high tech economy."
In another development, Tata Advanced Systems announced that it is jointly exploring opportunities with Urban Aeronautics from Israel for marketing and manufacturing of unmanned aerial vehicles based on UrbanAero’s patented Fancraft technology for the Indian market.
A Tata Advanced Systems spokesperson said: "Tata Advanced Systems is pleased to be associated with Urban Aeronautics, which is developing innovative unmanned vehicles based on its patented Fancraft technology. We believe these unmanned vehicles can have multiple applications for defence and civilian applications in India."
Oh yeah, I remember the X-hawk idea. They even pitched it after 9/11 as a possible rescue vehicle to evacuate people trapped in skyscrapers, etc. But it was supposed to mainly be an urban air-shuttle, safer because of its shrouded rotors. I like the idea of shrouded rotors because they increase the effective thrust. But this deal doesn't sound much different than the one Tata made with that French guy for the compressed-air car. In other words, it sounds a little exotic, like the Moller skycar, and I'm not sure how practical the technology is.JCage wrote:Link
http://www.urbanaero.com/Frame-whatsnew.htmTata Advanced Sys explore opportunity with Urban Aeronautic
2008-02-16 14:24:37
http://travel.howstuffworks.com/x-hawk.htm
All in all, it sort of gives me the impression of a ground-effect vehicle (ie. hovercraft) that is trying to fly higher than it should. I would worry about its stability relative to its center of gravity. At least planes and helicopters have wider wing and rotor spans. Perhaps if they built it with a broader planar triangular shape?
More good announcements from Tata. Wow, they seem to be on a roll.
So what's the best forum to discuss jeeps/hummers/trucks and other military transport vehicles? Should that be in the Artillery & Armour thread? Because these aren't really tanks or APCs.
Tata Motors launches Light Specialist Vehicle
If we can make defense products good enough to satisfy profit-making needs, then fulfillment of our defense needs would be an automatic fallout from that.
So what's the best forum to discuss jeeps/hummers/trucks and other military transport vehicles? Should that be in the Artillery & Armour thread? Because these aren't really tanks or APCs.
Tata Motors launches Light Specialist Vehicle
Anyhow, glad to see that we're increasingly treating defense sector as a moneymaking enterprise. Hope we'll aggressively market for export orders, to increase our forex, and to grab some of the Chinese market share. That's a form of warfare too.New Delhi (PTI): Tata Motors, one of the biggest private players in the defence sector, on Saturday unveiled its new range of tactical and armoured vehicles which can be used by armed forces for special missions and to turn the tide in counter insurgency operations.
Tata Motors, which is a major indigenous car manufacturer in the civil sector, showcased the 1.2 tonne payload 'Light Specialist Vehicle', which it said is a single platform to undertake diverse missions such as reconnaissance, special forces missions, counter insurgency operations and could also be used as an armoured ambulance.
This is the second major foray by the company in the defence sector after it won the bid to make Pinaka multi barrel rocket launchers.
Though there are reports that the Tatas plan to form an independent defence industrial entity, its top executives present at the launch were tight lipped about the matter. They refused to give figures of the company's investments in the defence sector.
"The company has major plans to enter the upgradation of armourment, mobility platforms. The company has recently announced strategic tie ups with mega international defence companies like the Boeing," V S Noronha, Head of Defence Business in Tata Motors said.
The company's launch comes at a time when other national and international players are eyeing the Indian market which according to industry estimates, will be requiring an estimated 30 to 40 thousand such vehicles.
If we can make defense products good enough to satisfy profit-making needs, then fulfillment of our defense needs would be an automatic fallout from that.
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Rafael and Bharat Electronics Ltd Agree to form JV
The JV will encourage indigenous advanced technology capabilities of missile electronics and guidance technologies within India and will enable Rafael to meet offset requirements by transferring valuable technologies and workshare to the JV.
The JV will encourage indigenous advanced technology capabilities of missile electronics and guidance technologies within India and will enable Rafael to meet offset requirements by transferring valuable technologies and workshare to the JV.
Tata Signs MoU for JV with Israel Aircraft Industries
[quote]Sandeep Dikshit
It is part of announcements made by foreign arms companies to meet their offset obligations
Hope pact with IAI will aid defence industry growth: Ratan Tata
Foreign defence firms announce JVs to meet offset obligation
— AFP
NEW VENTURE: Chairman of Tata Group Ratan Tata with President and CEO of Israel Aerospace Industries Itshak Nissan after signing an MoU in New Delhi on Sunday.
NEW DELHI: The Tata Group on Sunday signed a memorandum of understanding with the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) for developing and manufacturing a wide range of defence products, including missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles, radars, electronic warfare and security systems.
The announcement was made at the ongoing Defexpo here. It is part of several announcements made by foreign arms companies for meeting their offset obligations.
Defence policy
Under the defence purchase policy, between 30 and 50 per cent of all imports over Rs. 300 crore had to be sourced from India. This has made the foreign companies having bagged or in line for big contracts to announce joint ventures or India based companies.
“We believe the coming together of the Tatas and the IAI will positively impact the growth of defence industry in India and complement the efforts of our defence labs, ordnance factory board and defence public sector undertakings,â€
[quote]Sandeep Dikshit
It is part of announcements made by foreign arms companies to meet their offset obligations
Hope pact with IAI will aid defence industry growth: Ratan Tata
Foreign defence firms announce JVs to meet offset obligation
— AFP
NEW VENTURE: Chairman of Tata Group Ratan Tata with President and CEO of Israel Aerospace Industries Itshak Nissan after signing an MoU in New Delhi on Sunday.
NEW DELHI: The Tata Group on Sunday signed a memorandum of understanding with the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) for developing and manufacturing a wide range of defence products, including missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles, radars, electronic warfare and security systems.
The announcement was made at the ongoing Defexpo here. It is part of several announcements made by foreign arms companies for meeting their offset obligations.
Defence policy
Under the defence purchase policy, between 30 and 50 per cent of all imports over Rs. 300 crore had to be sourced from India. This has made the foreign companies having bagged or in line for big contracts to announce joint ventures or India based companies.
“We believe the coming together of the Tatas and the IAI will positively impact the growth of defence industry in India and complement the efforts of our defence labs, ordnance factory board and defence public sector undertakings,â€
IAF's missile warning system to be tested in four months
A missile warning system, being jointly developed by the Indian Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) and European defence and aerospace consortium EADS for the Indian Air Force, will be tested in the next four months.
"The deliveries are complete, the integration tests in DARE's multi-sensor self protection suite have already been conducted and will be tested in several platforms. The tests will be terminated in the course of the next four months," EADS' Head of Communications Theodor Benien told PTI in the ongoing Defence Expo here.
The partners are developing jointly the missile warning system based on EADS' proven warning sensor MILDS AN/AAR-60 and integrated into the existing multi-sensor warning system of the Indian armed force.
As part of the agreement, EADS in a first step is delivering 36 sensors for further integration and development.
"India is a priority country for EADS offers market potential and solid aerospace and defence competences. This project is a clear signal of commitment to India, not only as a market but also as an industrial partner.
"EADS and Indian government are poised to strengthen their cooperation in the highly sensitive field of electronic warfare," he said.
The MILDS AN/AAR-60 is an advanced, passive imaging sensor which detects and tracks the UV emissions of approaching missiles, including the most prevalent threat of heat seeking shoulder launched Man Portable Air Defence Systems (MANPADS).
The system provides full coverage, a low false alarm and maximum warning time to enable the deployment of counter- measures such as chaff/flares. With a very low false alarm rate and fast detection combined with automatic initiation of counter-measures, MILDS AN/AAR-60 relieves the pilot's workload in time critical situations and ensures the safe return of both crew and aircraft.
The sensor has been sold in more than 5,600 units across the globe and is in service aboard a huge variety of rotary wing and wide body aircraft, a version of fighter aircraft is under development.
A missile warning system, being jointly developed by the Indian Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) and European defence and aerospace consortium EADS for the Indian Air Force, will be tested in the next four months.
"The deliveries are complete, the integration tests in DARE's multi-sensor self protection suite have already been conducted and will be tested in several platforms. The tests will be terminated in the course of the next four months," EADS' Head of Communications Theodor Benien told PTI in the ongoing Defence Expo here.
The partners are developing jointly the missile warning system based on EADS' proven warning sensor MILDS AN/AAR-60 and integrated into the existing multi-sensor warning system of the Indian armed force.
As part of the agreement, EADS in a first step is delivering 36 sensors for further integration and development.
"India is a priority country for EADS offers market potential and solid aerospace and defence competences. This project is a clear signal of commitment to India, not only as a market but also as an industrial partner.
"EADS and Indian government are poised to strengthen their cooperation in the highly sensitive field of electronic warfare," he said.
The MILDS AN/AAR-60 is an advanced, passive imaging sensor which detects and tracks the UV emissions of approaching missiles, including the most prevalent threat of heat seeking shoulder launched Man Portable Air Defence Systems (MANPADS).
The system provides full coverage, a low false alarm and maximum warning time to enable the deployment of counter- measures such as chaff/flares. With a very low false alarm rate and fast detection combined with automatic initiation of counter-measures, MILDS AN/AAR-60 relieves the pilot's workload in time critical situations and ensures the safe return of both crew and aircraft.
The sensor has been sold in more than 5,600 units across the globe and is in service aboard a huge variety of rotary wing and wide body aircraft, a version of fighter aircraft is under development.
UPDATE 1-AIR SHOW-Lockheed sees India as top Asia arms marke
UPDATE 1-AIR SHOW-Lockheed sees India as top Asia arms market
Which three new vessels? Which Submarine upgrade? Can only be HDW!
Lockheed Martin, the Pentagon's No.1 supplier by sales, announced earlier this month that it would sell six C-130J military transport planes worth about $1 billion to India.
Kirkland said that India had taken an option to buy a further six of those aircraft.
Kirkland said Lockheed Martin would compete in India for up to $5 billion worth of naval contracts, mainly for three new vessels and a submarine upgrade programme, and for another $4 billion in communications contracts.
Kirkland said India plans to have dedicated voice and data networks for each of the three armed forces -- army, air force and navy -- as well as a national command network.
Which three new vessels? Which Submarine upgrade? Can only be HDW!All these foreign partnership announcements in the space of a week.
Why so many, all at once?
What gives here? Is it just that the media has woken up and decided to give more coverage to defence tie-ups, because of the first couple of big annoucements?
Or are we really experiencing some sudden surge in deals coming through?
If so, why?
Has some long-awaited roadblock suddenly been removed behind the scenes, so that the gates have been opened for a flood of deals, which everyone is scrambling for?
I just don't understand the rapid series of announcements. If this pace were to be kept up for the rest of the year, we'll be manufacturing anything and everything defense-related by year's end.
What's triggering this sudden avalanche?
Why so many, all at once?
What gives here? Is it just that the media has woken up and decided to give more coverage to defence tie-ups, because of the first couple of big annoucements?
Or are we really experiencing some sudden surge in deals coming through?
If so, why?
Has some long-awaited roadblock suddenly been removed behind the scenes, so that the gates have been opened for a flood of deals, which everyone is scrambling for?
I just don't understand the rapid series of announcements. If this pace were to be kept up for the rest of the year, we'll be manufacturing anything and everything defense-related by year's end.
What's triggering this sudden avalanche?
three new vessels = P17A.
it was reported IN was willing to spend upto $750 mil (3x the cost P15) for
each in order to field the newest technology.
imo a good bet is general US ship design, propulsion, control system, C4I
mated to MF-star-mki + Barak1 + Barak8 combo, phalanx ciws, indian decoy/ECM systems, indian sonar, US 5" extended range gun with LM being lead integration and partner to upg one shipyard. US designs have very
good damage control, automation, redundancy etc
would also mark INs entry into a 'full stealth' ship in the mould of lafayette
using advanced conformal antenna designs for everything...no more wires and 'stuff' hanging around....
helicopters would be 2 x NH90 / SH60J whichever is chosen to replace SKing
it was reported IN was willing to spend upto $750 mil (3x the cost P15) for
each in order to field the newest technology.
imo a good bet is general US ship design, propulsion, control system, C4I
mated to MF-star-mki + Barak1 + Barak8 combo, phalanx ciws, indian decoy/ECM systems, indian sonar, US 5" extended range gun with LM being lead integration and partner to upg one shipyard. US designs have very
good damage control, automation, redundancy etc
would also mark INs entry into a 'full stealth' ship in the mould of lafayette
using advanced conformal antenna designs for everything...no more wires and 'stuff' hanging around....
helicopters would be 2 x NH90 / SH60J whichever is chosen to replace SKing
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ranganathan
- BRFite
- Posts: 276
- Joined: 06 Feb 2008 23:14
Did not know where to place this question.
So, what do we have coming from the Russians? Adm. G seems to be going, T-90s has issues, are the three frigates on time? MMRCA is in doubt. K-100 rifles will be produced in India!! Any ideas on helos for the army ..... does RU have a shot? MTA? What else?
TIA.
So, what do we have coming from the Russians? Adm. G seems to be going, T-90s has issues, are the three frigates on time? MMRCA is in doubt. K-100 rifles will be produced in India!! Any ideas on helos for the army ..... does RU have a shot? MTA? What else?
TIA.
IN can not afford to let Adm G. go, and they will not let it slip. Without Vikramaditya, IN's capability will be severely diminished.NRao wrote:Did not know where to place this question.
So, what do we have coming from the Russians? Adm. G seems to be going, T-90s has issues, are the three frigates on time? MMRCA is in doubt. K-100 rifles will be produced in India!! Any ideas on helos for the army ..... does RU have a shot? MTA? What else?
TIA.
Singha i think navy wanted 7 frigates in 17A series. One will be built in the selected vendors homeyard and then rest of the 6 will be built in india.
A desi version of DDX or FREMM is the way to go.
VSR: RAN-40L or Indigenous AESA spin off from current LRDE projects
MFCR: MF STAR or Indigenous spin off as above.
ASCM & LACM: Brahmos 1 and Brahmos 2 [hypersonic version].
SAM: Barak-1 & Barak-NG.
EO Sensor: ??
Onboard data network: New version of ATM based network from BEL.
Comm Link: Link-2 or latest datalink and SATCOM from BEL.
EW: DRDO, BEL.
Sonar: DRDO.
CIWS: Phalanx
C4I: BEL, ECIL, CAIR etc.. India
Gun: ??
Helicopter:NH-90/SH60J
Propulsion System: US or France
A desi version of DDX or FREMM is the way to go.
VSR: RAN-40L or Indigenous AESA spin off from current LRDE projects
MFCR: MF STAR or Indigenous spin off as above.
ASCM & LACM: Brahmos 1 and Brahmos 2 [hypersonic version].
SAM: Barak-1 & Barak-NG.
EO Sensor: ??
Onboard data network: New version of ATM based network from BEL.
Comm Link: Link-2 or latest datalink and SATCOM from BEL.
EW: DRDO, BEL.
Sonar: DRDO.
CIWS: Phalanx
C4I: BEL, ECIL, CAIR etc.. India
Gun: ??
Helicopter:NH-90/SH60J
Propulsion System: US or France
First, even an agreement is reached, AG would not be come till 2013. Anything else from RU is just a promise. Given the series of breach of contracts, promise from RU has no meaning.lyIN can not afford to let Adm G. go, and they will not let it slip. Without Vikramaditya, IN's capability will be severely diminished.
Even after it is delivered, AG will be an AC solely of its type, what capability it will provide when it will be most of the time in dock due to lack of parts and other failures and every technical issues with it requiring long negotiations.
It is time that RU fulfills the contracts with India, or face losing business. They decided to go with commercial terms without commercial level of customer support, the strategic relationship started to weaken there itself.
All these late 90s and early 2000 contract for joint development and technology sharing was all due to precarious situation of RU arms industry. One realizes or not they learned a lot in the process as well, due to integration of western technology in there products, all on the back of India. Now they are trying to play ball with India.
If they fulfill the contract now, they have chance of making money in future and expect long term relationship. this tactical move to play with India, may win them few pennies for now, but they are going to be a loser in the long run.
Now they have money from oil, they should better fulfil Indian contract from that rather than burn bridges with India, if they want to work long term with India.
That's why India needs to open up defense bids to the Americans. That will send a wake-up call to Moscow. Then they'll get the message that we can't be run roughshod over, and taken for granted. We're not a captive buyer.
And I also agree with that suggestion made before, about collaborating with the smaller middle-tier countries, like Brazil, Sweden, Israel, South Africa, etc, for weapons development consortiums.
And I also agree with that suggestion made before, about collaborating with the smaller middle-tier countries, like Brazil, Sweden, Israel, South Africa, etc, for weapons development consortiums.
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Rudranathh
- BRFite
- Posts: 223
- Joined: 17 Nov 2007 20:06
Russia may walk out of Gorshkov deal with India
Could be another paid write-up with no named sources provided. Even the two parties to the deal have not commented. Have to wait for an official reaction.
From the link
"Now this issue is under negotiations and if we fail to reach a compromise with India on the contract and its price, the aircraft carrier could be bought by Russian Defence Ministry," an unnamed defence industry source was quoted as saying by RBC business newswire.
However, neither the Indian Embassy nor Russian signatory of the RosOboronExport have made any announcement.
Could be another paid write-up with no named sources provided. Even the two parties to the deal have not commented. Have to wait for an official reaction.
From the link
"Now this issue is under negotiations and if we fail to reach a compromise with India on the contract and its price, the aircraft carrier could be bought by Russian Defence Ministry," an unnamed defence industry source was quoted as saying by RBC business newswire.
However, neither the Indian Embassy nor Russian signatory of the RosOboronExport have made any announcement.
the T90 300+ order should also be shitcanned under this pretext 
wrt brahmos, if the P17A is meant as a anti-air + ASW ship better to just
skip wasting VL space on foredeck and do what PLAN and some others have
done in having 4-6 inclined tubes pointing to the side amidships. this imo achieves a better balance than having them on side (Rajput/Slava/Delhi style) as the CG of each tube is roughly along center of the ships length.
foredeck could have 32 Barak8 perhaps and 32 Barak1s in two units in the
rear.
wrt brahmos, if the P17A is meant as a anti-air + ASW ship better to just
skip wasting VL space on foredeck and do what PLAN and some others have
done in having 4-6 inclined tubes pointing to the side amidships. this imo achieves a better balance than having them on side (Rajput/Slava/Delhi style) as the CG of each tube is roughly along center of the ships length.
foredeck could have 32 Barak8 perhaps and 32 Barak1s in two units in the
rear.
Lockheed Martin to bid for Indian naval construction and defence communication contracts: Singapore Air Show 2008
Lockheed Martin has said that it would compete in India for up to $5 billion worth of naval contracts, mainly for three new vessels and a submarine upgrade programme. According to a senior company official, the company would also bid for defence communications contracts worth another $4 billion.
Richard Kirkland, Lockheed Martin's president, South Asia, in conversation with the media at the Singapore air show, said that India plans to have dedicated voice and data networks for its army, air force and navy, as well as a national command network.
He also said that India had taken an option to buy a further six C-130J military transport planes, over and above the six that it has already ordered. The billion-dollar deal, inked just this month, was significant in that it broke the long drought of military sales to India by American companies.
Lockheed Martin has said that it would compete in India for up to $5 billion worth of naval contracts, mainly for three new vessels and a submarine upgrade programme. According to a senior company official, the company would also bid for defence communications contracts worth another $4 billion.
Richard Kirkland, Lockheed Martin's president, South Asia, in conversation with the media at the Singapore air show, said that India plans to have dedicated voice and data networks for its army, air force and navy, as well as a national command network.
He also said that India had taken an option to buy a further six C-130J military transport planes, over and above the six that it has already ordered. The billion-dollar deal, inked just this month, was significant in that it broke the long drought of military sales to India by American companies.
India orders over one hundred SIGMA 95 navigation systems from Sagem Defense Securite
AoA..
New Deli, DEFEXPO, February 19, 2008 The aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) of India has just ordered from Sagem Défense Sécurité (SAFRAN Group) more than 100 SIGMA 95N navigation systems. These systems will be used on the Indian Air Force Sukhoi fighters and the Tejas fighters from the Indian LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) program.
They will round out the SIGMA 95N systems already in use on the Sukhoi 30s, MiG-27, MiG-27s, Jaguars and Indian Hawks.
Developed and produced by Sagem Défense Sécurité, SIGMA 95N is a standalone inertial laser gyro navigation system with integrated GPS/Glonass*. It brings high-precision navigation and a high degree of operating flexibility to combat aircraft.
This order is a step further in the discussions between Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd and Sagem Défense Sécurité following the agreement signed in June 2007, which sets the stage for a long-term partnership. It opens the way for a joint venture in India for production and maintenance of inertial navigation systems and automatic flight control systems. This project is subject to final approval of both government authorities.
AoA..
Sagem Defense Securite delivers first SIGMA 30 artillery navigation and pointing systems to India
Muhahah.
New Deli, DEFEXPO, February 19, 2008. Sagem Défense Sécurité (SAFRAN Group) has just delivered the first SIGMA 30 navigation and pointing systems to the Indian Ministry of Defense's DRDO/ARDE* for deployment on the Indian army's Pinaka multiple launch rocket systems, initially for two regiments . These units will be integrated by Larsen & Toubro Ltd. and Tata Power Company Ltd., the two manufacturers responsible for Pinaka systems integration.
Developed and produced by Sagem Défense Sécurité using laser gyro technology, the SIGMA 30 land navigation system for artillery pointing and positioning is designed for high-precision firing on short notice.
Sagem Défense Sécurité artillery systems are already used by the armed forces of about 20 different countries. These systems present state-of-the art technologies: advanced observation, optronic sensors, navigation and pointing systems, fire control, computers, digital mapping, systems integration.
Muhahah.I think it is a bad idea to let any of the unkil's contractors anywhere near the armed forces communications... Just as the scorpion can't resist stinging the frog, so unkil can't resist doing some sort of ungli.A Sharma wrote:Lockheed Martin to bid for Indian naval construction and defence communication contracts: Singapore Air Show 2008
Lockheed Martin has said that it would compete in India for up to $5 billion worth of naval contracts, mainly for three new vessels and a submarine upgrade programme. According to a senior company official, the company would also bid for defence communications contracts worth another $4 billion.
Richard Kirkland, Lockheed Martin's president, South Asia, in conversation with the media at the Singapore air show, said that India plans to have dedicated voice and data networks for its army, air force and navy, as well as a national command network....
BEL has signed agreements for IAI for repair and upkeep of UAVs to fulfill some offset clause and with Elisra for ECM gear...I think with this ALL of
the major vendors in Israeli defence have some venture or tieup with
India! cant think of anyone not in the game from IAI and Elta downward
to tadiran and IMI tavor...
in addition:
BS-standard
Bharat Electronics, Israel`s Rafael sign missile deal
Newswire 18 / New Delhi February 20, 2008
Bangalore-based Bharat Electronics has signed a memorandum of understanding with Israel's defence equipment maker Rafael Advanced Systems for making missile electronics and missile guiding systems for India's military, a senior company official said.
"By Wednesday, we hope to sign MoUs with a couple of more companies for warfare electronics and avionics equipment," the official said.
Rafael's Communications Manager Gila Harel said, "Rafael and BEL have agreed to form a joint venture for missile electronics, but the details of the joint venture will be worked out after the defence expo is over."
Rafael has already been supplying India with missiles like surface-to-surface Barak missile and the air-to-air Derby missile.
Bharat Electronics is imparting major thrust on electronic warfare and network-centric systems besides looking at some acquisitions to expand its portfolio in defence software.
"Radar communications systems, which accounted for about 90 per cent of our turnover today make for only half.â€
the major vendors in Israeli defence have some venture or tieup with
India! cant think of anyone not in the game from IAI and Elta downward
to tadiran and IMI tavor...
in addition:
BS-standard
Bharat Electronics, Israel`s Rafael sign missile deal
Newswire 18 / New Delhi February 20, 2008
Bangalore-based Bharat Electronics has signed a memorandum of understanding with Israel's defence equipment maker Rafael Advanced Systems for making missile electronics and missile guiding systems for India's military, a senior company official said.
"By Wednesday, we hope to sign MoUs with a couple of more companies for warfare electronics and avionics equipment," the official said.
Rafael's Communications Manager Gila Harel said, "Rafael and BEL have agreed to form a joint venture for missile electronics, but the details of the joint venture will be worked out after the defence expo is over."
Rafael has already been supplying India with missiles like surface-to-surface Barak missile and the air-to-air Derby missile.
Bharat Electronics is imparting major thrust on electronic warfare and network-centric systems besides looking at some acquisitions to expand its portfolio in defence software.
"Radar communications systems, which accounted for about 90 per cent of our turnover today make for only half.â€
Rafael, Tatas pact for air defence systems soon
Rafael, the Israeli armaments company, is set to sign an agreement with Tata Power for maintenance of air defence systems which the company will supply to the Indian Air Force.
Rafael, which has got the contract for quick reaction surface-to-air Python and Derby Air Defence Systems for the Ministry of Defence, will sign the production transfer programme agreement with the Tata Group company this fiscal
Rafael missiles will be used together with the indigenous Akash surface-to-air missiles which have recently been cleared for induction.
“Under the proposed agreement, Tata Power will manufacture some parts of the air defence systems and do the maintenance work post delivery,â€
From dailypioneer.com. Posting in full as the URL is not archived:
Russia remains biggest arms supplier
Russia remains biggest arms supplier
Rahul Datta | New Delhi
Russia will continue to be the biggest supplier of arms to India for the next few years as the platforms for tanks and warships produced by them are rugged and cheap and marry comfortably with the Indian philosophy of fitting them with sophisticated sub-systems and weapons of European and Israeli origin.
However, this philosophy is not practised when procuring aircraft as the platforms have to be very sophisticated and India has rightly followed the policy of buying fighter jets from other countries while going in for the MIG series of aircraft more than 40 years back.
Squadrons of French manufactured Mirage jets and British made Jaguars and recent induction of the Hawk advanced jet trainers(AJT) from the UK are some of the examples of the successful integration of these weapon systems into the IAF.
India is now focusing on having modular equipment including sensors, electronic warfare systems and weapon fits for the simple reason that they can be fitted into any type of a ship, submarine, tank or an aircraft. These platforms can be of any origin and the Indian defence industries will not have a problem in fitting the sophisticated modular systems into them thereby considerably cutting down costs and time, sources said here on Sunday.
Giving some examples of some major weapon systems purchased by India in the last five years, they said Phalcon airborne early warning radar system(AWACS) from Israel and the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier are carrying a mix of sub-systems with the base platforms acquired from Russia.
While the Russian giant transport plane IL-78 form the platform for the Phalcon AWACS, the entire sub-systems including sensors, radars, electronic warfare and other sophisticated equipment is of Israeli origin and India signed a deal for four of them.
The first Phalcon is scheduled to join the IAF later this year thereby giving it a huge advantage in detecting a hostile aircraft more than 300 kms away as the radar system would be airborne.
Similarly, the Gorshkov carrier, the deal for which is facing some problem and delays at present due to the Russians demanding an additional 1.2 billion dollars over and above the agreed price of 1.5 billion dollar, is being fitted with sub-systems manufactured by some of the topmost companies of Europe and public sector undertakings of India.
As regards the emergence of Israel as the second biggest defence partner of India after Russia, sources said Israel is the world leader in designing and manufacturing highly complex and sophisticated electronic and network centric systems.
Moreover, they never lay down conditions about end-user and there are virtually no delays in supplies and product support to the armed forces is always prompt and regular, they said.
Another major reason for Israel gaining the confidence of the Indian defence establishment is their ever strengthening relationship with the Defence Research and Development Organisation(DRDO).
Maintaining a low profile unlike some of the giants in the arms industry of the world, Israel has quietly gone about providing cutting edge technology and taking up joint ventures with the DRDO for some of its top of the line strategic programmes like Trishul and Akash missiles and ballistic missile defence system, they said.
Besides these ventures, Israel is also engaged in the upgradation programmes of the fighter jets, providing hi-tech equipment for ships and specialised weapons for our elite Special Forces which are undergoing rapid modernisation. In fact, an estimated 10 billion dollar worth of exports from Israel have taken place in the last two or three years and the figures will only go up in the coming years, they said.
From DN
[quote]Feb 25, 2008
Indian Policies Loom Large at New Delhi Show
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI
NEW DELHI — Offsets were a hot topic at Defexpo 2008, the fifth biennial land and naval defense show here Feb. 16-19, where Defence Minister A.K. Antony responded to requests for policy clarification by promising more details soon.
“Deliberations are going on with regard to few important issues like banking of offset credits, transfer of technology, licensing requirement for software industry, etc., that are of concern to the industry, both foreign and Indian,â€
[quote]Feb 25, 2008
Indian Policies Loom Large at New Delhi Show
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI
NEW DELHI — Offsets were a hot topic at Defexpo 2008, the fifth biennial land and naval defense show here Feb. 16-19, where Defence Minister A.K. Antony responded to requests for policy clarification by promising more details soon.
“Deliberations are going on with regard to few important issues like banking of offset credits, transfer of technology, licensing requirement for software industry, etc., that are of concern to the industry, both foreign and Indian,â€
India, Hungary hold talks to enhance defence cooperation
Anti-Terrorist rifle eh?
Any way some in fo on Gepard GM6 Lynx,
link
link
India has decided to purchase anti-terrorist, anti-material rifle Gepard GM Lynx developed in Hungary, it said.
Anti-Terrorist rifle eh?
Any way some in fo on Gepard GM6 Lynx,
link
link