ATV and K15 missile - News & Discussion

Arun_S
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ATV and K15 missile - News & Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 07 Feb 2008 13:19

Cross posting from Missile thread because this I believe is first photo of Sagarika:
Arun_S wrote:
rakall wrote:Arun please take a look at this link..

http://keltec.saturn.in/drdo.html

it has a picture of the booster motor casing for an underwater missile & a surface to surface missile motor case.. can you predict what these are for?

I have a feeling the pictures are mixed-up with the descriptions.. but you will have a better understanding/idea.

Holymolly. Kamono is open.

This I am sure is Sagarika's phehli jhalak:
Image

This is correctly stated as Astra:
Image

This part looks like A-3 part, but I will feigh ignorance of what it is.:twisted:
Image

The other underwater booster part: No clue.

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Postby sgopal » 07 Feb 2008 13:59

Arun_S wrote:Cross posting from Missile thread because this I believe is first photo of Sagarika:
Arun_S wrote:
rakall wrote:Arun please take a look at this link..


Is that A3 part the 'HAM'?

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Postby Austin » 07 Feb 2008 14:32

Yes very much the smoky HAM :twisted:

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K-15 CGi animation

Postby maz » 24 Feb 2008 06:40


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Postby sunilUpa » 25 Feb 2008 23:11

X posting..

D-Day tomorrow guys..

New Delhi: India is test firing its first-ever under sea ballistic missile at a place 10 kilometres from Visakhapatnam on Tuesday and will join a select band of five countries having the capability to launch under sea missiles.

The missile K-15, with a range of 700-km, would be test fired from a pontoon immersed in the sea as India does not have a submarine for such an exercise, official sources here said tonight.


link

Sigh...I was sleeping late and getting up early for the last 2 days...guess have to do that tonight too.

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Postby Gaurav_S » 26 Feb 2008 10:46

India to test fire under-sea missile today

India is set to test fire its first-ever under sea ballistic missile at a place ten kilometre from Visakhapatnam and join a select band of five countries equipped with the technology of nuclear deterrence.

The missile K-15, with a range of 700-km, would be test fired from a pontoon immersed in the sea as India does not have a submarine for such an exercise, official sources in New Delhi said on Monday night.

Chief Controller of the Defence Research and Development S Prahlada had said recently that DRDO would need just one test to ratify the missile systems and the parameters which would form the main armament of the country's indigenous nuclear submarine expected to enter sea trials late next year.

If the test fire is successful, India would join a handful of countries the US, Russia, France and China to possess such a capability and it would considerably enhance the country's nuclear deterrence as sea-launched missiles will form crucial part of the country's second strike nuclear capability.

Prahlada had said DRDO had almost perfected the dry-run trials on the key missile and it would be integrated with the advanced technology vehicle.


HT

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Postby vsudhir » 26 Feb 2008 12:20

News channels are reportin (in the running headlines) that the K-15 is successfully tested.

YIPPIE!

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Postby derkonig » 26 Feb 2008 12:30

AoA AoA AoA

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Postby derkonig » 26 Feb 2008 12:41


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Postby Gaurav_S » 26 Feb 2008 13:04


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Postby sum » 26 Feb 2008 13:08

Believed to be named after former President A P J Abdul Kalam, the next challenge is integrating this weapon with the ATV, India's nuclear-powered submarine-in-the-making.

Thats nice to hear......Why the 15 with the K though??
Last edited by sum on 26 Feb 2008 14:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ranganathan » 26 Feb 2008 13:09

The pic in the IBN link, is that the K-15 It doesn't look like a BM.

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Postby bkumar » 26 Feb 2008 14:34



AoA. May its range keep increasing with each subsequent test.

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Postby SSridhar » 26 Feb 2008 15:03

Fantastic achievement by the kafirs.

Allah-o-Akbar onlee.

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Postby sombhat » 26 Feb 2008 15:41

1 ton for 700 km, 500 kg for 1400 KM ?? :D

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Postby Singha » 26 Feb 2008 15:49

hopefully some 'shadowy' BR lurker would obtain 'permission' and release
a launch pic. would set at rest all pakpanda howling and mewling forever.

the new attitude of dropping our shorts to show off stuff is good, it indicates
programs have reached maturity and they are confident of beating sanctions. kinda like the Unkil history channel approach - tell others and let them do what they may, but Unkil still retains the ability to crush them like a bug :twisted:

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Postby Kersi D » 26 Feb 2008 15:53

In one of the pics Sagarika's final stage looks very much like Agni. Is it same as Agni ? This means that Sagarika is a ballistic missile not a cruise missile. Whats the final verdict

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Postby Prabu » 26 Feb 2008 15:57

vsudhir wrote:News channels are reportin (in the running headlines) that the K-15 is successfully tested.

YIPPIE!


Thanks for giving the Good news first ! Jai Hind !

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Postby sunilUpa » 26 Feb 2008 15:58

Wow, Great way to begin the day.

Gopalsuri, photos please. :D

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Postby Austin » 26 Feb 2008 16:04

The K-15 or Sagarika is a BM , why is there any doubt about it ?

sombhat from Aruns post few threads back

1000Kg payload to 750Km with 7m/0.7 diameter solid fuel missile is impossible.

My assumptions did assume use of composite motor case for all stages. The booster will accommodate ~500-600kg fuel, but fins and subsurface launch will have penalty that I factored in to assign MF of 0.6. The Second stage MF assumed at 0.85 which will be a feat for a small 2 tonne stage using composite case (don't forget this MF includes safety, actuators, batteries etc).

So 350Kg payload to 750Km range is a balanced performance estimate IMHO.

Longer range Sagarika is possible once it uses all of the available beam length.

From the data fragments available I think the beam/diameter of ATV will is 11 meter, thus 10 m missile length is expected. So Sagarika will grow from 7 m to 10 meter, and that upper stage motor will increase its reach:

1000 Kg to 840 Km
500 Kg to 1800 Km
350 Kg to official A-2 range

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Postby ashish raval » 26 Feb 2008 16:04

Jai Hind. Congratulations to all those hardworking scientists. Give them double salary for next 1 year or announce cash reward for whole team working on it.

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Postby A Sharma » 26 Feb 2008 16:16

India tests submarine-launched ballistic missile

India on Tuesday test-fired an indigenously developed nuclear-capable submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) from an undersea location off the Orissa coast, an official source said.

"The missile was launched around 1 pm," the source said of the sixth test of the 700-km range Sagarika missile.

Since the Indian Navy does not have a submarine capable of firing an SLBM, the test firing was conducted from an underwater launcher positioned 50 metres under the surface of the sea and 8 km off the Orissa coast.

Prahlada, chief controller of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) that developed Sagarika, said earlier this month it was also readying for a "crucial" test of the missile from a submarine.

"We have asked the navy for a submarine to enable us conduct the test," Prahlada - who uses one name - told reporters during the DEFEXPO international defence exposition on Feb 16-19.

However, this could be a while away as Russia is yet to respond to the Indian Navy's request for loaning an Akula-class submarine that is capable of launching SLBMs. The navy's Russian-made Kilo-class submarines and the German-designed HDW submarines do not have the capability to fire such missiles.

The success achieved last year with exo-atmospheric (outside the atmosphere) and endo-atmospheric (within the atmosphere) anti-ballistic missiles, as also with the surface-to-air Akash missile, had apparently encouraged DRDO scientists to test the Sagarika again.

Powered by a turbojet, the missile can carry a 500-kg payload. It is 8.5 metres long and about a metre in diameter.

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Postby vina » 26 Feb 2008 16:41

A Sharma wrote:India tests submarine-launched ballistic missile


Powered by a turbojet, the missile can carry a 500-kg payload. It is 8.5 metres long and about a metre in diameter. [/b]


Hmm.. Those inscrutable Chankian earth-e-shaster Yindoos. Bhery kanphoojing onlee.

DDM dogs lap up every word they say even disinformation.. A ballistic missile with turbojet engines ..why pigs would fly first.

This K-15 is a cruise missile onree boys. It is the Injun tomahawk. Makes sense. The ATV is not a boomer at all , but an SSKN . I think that the boomers will come later after via a stretch in the midsection kind of thing. Yeah, with 6000 ton and the dimensions posted, it makes more sense for it to be a Nook powered SSK with cruise missile strike capability ..

At best if it is a boomer , I think Yindoos have done very Chankian things like having dual use launch tubes that can take one really fat man called agni or a couple of thin, starving K-15s..

Face it.. 700km range for a ballistic missile sub is too little. You need to get too close to shore for that to do any serious damage and seriously put yourself in trouble. That aint no second strike survivable asset strategy.

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Postby Singha » 26 Feb 2008 16:58

well per Austin post if it took some panda pills and grew to full length of
ATV tube, it could put 350kg @ 1500km which is far far outside the range of
any country's ASW patrol screen. it could target southern PRC from goolf van bengalen.

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Postby gogna » 26 Feb 2008 17:22

well done DRDO

where is the video of the test and pictures. tsk.tsk

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Postby sunilUpa » 26 Feb 2008 17:50

Pleaze note the timing of the test onlee..same day as Uncle Gates is visting. A message to Commies as well as Uncle onlee. At the same time DRDO is playing it low key onlee...no official press briefing, unmaed sources etc etc. Guess we have to wait for cpl of days for pictures, video etc.

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Postby SaiK » 26 Feb 2008 17:58

vina, the turbojet part could be for the subsurface purposes onlee.. then the solids kicks up. regarding the 700km, yeah.. thats an issue for NFU doctrine. We need 2500KM minimum.. we have a larger thai-chi above our left eye., better still would be A3SL, that specifies a true SLBM with a minimum of 6000KMs. Once space borne I am willing to take the inertia into designs against speed initially, then come up with a vayur-ca-agnih and a reverse agnih-ca-vayuh, that has no limitations of covering the earth at geo-dynamical levels. :twisted: A rentry phase turbojet could ensure survival and NFU doctrine satisfaction as well.. that has maneuver-ings against ABMs.

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Postby sunilUpa » 26 Feb 2008 18:11

ranganathan wrote:The pic in the IBN link, is that the K-15 It doesn't look like a BM.


That picture suspeciously looks like the picture on DRDO website...onlee problem - DRDO picture is that of two torpedos.. :D
Last edited by sunilUpa on 26 Feb 2008 19:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Gerard » 26 Feb 2008 19:28

That turbojet business is probably not part of the official press release. The DDM report 2 weeks ago also added this. One variant even mentioned Israel. Check the DDM thread for the "nuclear capable pinaka fired from a MLRS that is a version of the prithvi." Utter rubbish.

We need to see the photos or a report from a technically competent writer.

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Postby Aditya_V » 26 Feb 2008 19:41

The report Arun Sharma has quoted has 3 glaring errors

1) Missile launched of the cost of Orissa- It was launched of Vizag

2) Missile has a Turbojet?- Where did they get that

3) The Akula can launch SLBM's!!! - need I say more.

But one thing intrigues me- 1) CNN-IBN says this is the 6 test 2) The missile was launched off 10 KMs in the sea away from Vizag when they could have just as well launched from somewhere in the sea near Wheeler Island or Chandipur. Is it just possible that ATV has been launched silently and thats why this test has been made public.

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Postby Yugandhar » 26 Feb 2008 20:02

Why was this missile test done from/near Vizag instead of the usual place??? :eek:
Also why no photu/video this time???


So as per legalese are undersea/subsea launched ballstic missles exempt from the indo-pak agreement on prior notice to each other??
What is the significance of the fact that DDM was given a weeks heads up on this critical test??? :-?
Last edited by Yugandhar on 26 Feb 2008 20:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby SRay » 26 Feb 2008 20:04

Aditya_V wrote:But one thing intrigues me- 1) CNN-IBN says this is the 6 test 2) The missile was launched off 10 KMs in the sea away from Vizag when they could have just as well launched from somewhere in the sea near Wheeler Island or Chandipur. Is it just possible that ATV has been launched silently and thats why this test has been made public.


1. 5 previous tests have been reported before -- I doubt they previously tested the full missile flight as that would have required clearing airspace and notifying you know who. Most likely those tests were just very short flights out of the water.

2. 10Km away... maybe to avoid currents and turbulence by the shore? Perhaps to avoid any chance of interfering with civilian life?

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Postby Ankit Desai » 26 Feb 2008 20:06

Aditya_V wrote:The report Arun Sharma has quoted has 3 glaring errors

1) Missile launched of the cost of Orissa- It was launched of Vizag

2) Missile has a Turbojet?- Where did they get that

3) The Akula can launch SLBM's!!! - need I say more.

But one thing intrigues me- 1) CNN-IBN says this is the 6 test 2) The missile was launched off 10 KMs in the sea away from Vizag when they could have just as well launched from somewhere in the sea near Wheeler Island or Chandipur. Is it just possible that ATV has been launched silently and thats why this test has been made public.


I think 6 or whatever numberof tests mean test of missile in different environment, As outlook and other reports also mentioned that defence scientists had earlier carried out three to four dry runs and This was the first full-fledged test of the missile which is 1st underwater test I guess.

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Postby sombhat » 26 Feb 2008 20:07

Aditya_V wrote:3) The Akula can launch SLBM's!!! - need I say more.



Maybe, if we get this Akula:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon_class_submarine 8)

However, this could be a while away as Russia is yet to respond to the Indian Navy's request for loaning an Akula-class submarine that is capable of launching SLBMs.


And how did this happen. I thought we were getting the shark later this year. Is it so that we have requested for a Typhoon class (NATO) in addition to the Akula we are supposed to get.
Last edited by sombhat on 26 Feb 2008 20:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Yugandhar » 26 Feb 2008 20:12

I think all the previous tests were just testing the underwater booster as thats the part we have not done before. That technically is no missile test, onlya subsystem so nobody needs to be told. just regular technical experimentation. this probably is the first time the complete system is being tested.. JMT

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Postby Rahul Shukla » 26 Feb 2008 20:14

Well done dear kafir scientists! You have made us very proud! :D

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Postby Gerard » 26 Feb 2008 20:20

Why Vizag?
Because it has the naval infrastructure to handle a submersible pontoon.
The same L+T facility that fabricated the ATV hull sections would have built the pontoon launcher. Ideal location to base it would be Vizag.

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Postby sunilUpa » 26 Feb 2008 20:36

The K-15 missile, with a range of 700km, was test fired at 1258 hours from a pontoon immersed in the sea and eyewitness reports say that they saw the missile rising from the waters into the sky.

"The test firing was successful," defence ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar said. DRDO's initial response was that it was awaiting final evaluations from warships deployed in the sea.

According to reports, this was the first full-fledged test of the missile after three-four dry runs.


link

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Postby ramana » 26 Feb 2008 20:41

Good show. This is a BM. IBN picture is space filler..

The usual practice is to make ground launches to proof the vehicle. Then you do 'pontoon' launches to proof the underwater part. Then you integrate the pontoon into the vessel and then do weapon system trials. This way its methodical and systematic. If you dont do these steps the final launch may end up on the boat!.

The earlier five tests could be ground launches and wooden rounds from the pontoon to proof the eject sytem. its creditable that they went from ground to underwater launch in six tests. Very good analytical capapbility.
If it was a C/M dont need so many tests.

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Postby Naidu » 26 Feb 2008 20:51

SRay wrote:2. 10Km away... maybe to avoid currents and turbulence by the shore? Perhaps to avoid any chance of interfering with civilian life?


My guess for the distance from shore is to achieve the 50m launch depth.

Which brings me to a bunch of questions of my own:

a) Is 50m the typical launch depth for sub-launched missiles?

b) What is the typical cruising/at-station depth for nuclear and non-nuclear subs?

c) Do they need to come up to the designated launch depth?

d) Are missiles launched while the sub is moving?


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