Sir; I would not read so much into it -- perhaps the Army guy was harsh -- but in my opinion extrapolating it to an extent is not correct.
Well..suit yourself. In my opinion though the language has been made deliberately shrill with definite motives and not at all commensurate with the magnitude of actual problems. It is not that the particular Army guy was harsh the report was harsh itself.And not only the report;on separate occasions there has been comments made such as:
What we have today is a mid-level technology. What we need is a tank of international quality,' Kapoor said last November.
So what exactly is mid level in the Arjun..and if it is so what other higher level options does the IA have today in terms of technology?
Well the shell is overall plauged by problems T 90 is just one of them -- it is not clear that T 90 could not fire the shell because it was faulty or because the shell was faulty -- off hand it seems that it was a mismatch issue. Whats that got to do with the tank?
The reports say that the T-90 wasnâ€™t configured to fire the shell..and the shells were duds.Whatever the actual issue is ,its still a major problem with the program.
I am aware; but my contention is that they are different no comparison.
I think the two cases provide interesting and significant comparing characteristics.
Lot of trouble and expense? Dont think it was LOT -- it was just exactly ONE subsystem and expense on the same is not really known. Did the army really spend far more than it normally would on a T90 because of TIs if so how much? A far greater expense would have been because Avadi was slow in making T 90s.
>problem with the TI camera and FCS
>Problem with shells
"The unreliability of the Indian made shell is so serious that the army did not use it in critical numbers in the last two war games that were carried out in Punjab and Rajasthan".
>problem with engine overheating and derating
>problem with Russia delaying in giving ToT
>problem with BDL difficulty in manufacturing refleks
>>continuing problems with torsion bar
>other problems such as:
"lack of cooling systems leading to uninhabitable temperatures over 60C degrees (over 140F) inside the tank, and reports that at least one armored regiment had an in-service rate of just 25% for its T-90s"
And it did cost a lot.F.e. 700 crores lost due to shells.Another example:
As for the T-90, Indian Army chief Gen. Deepak Kapoor has admitted that Russia's delays in the technology transfer had pushed back its production here.
Transfer of technology is a complex process due to different perceptions on either side on what exactly this involves. There have been delays but in the long run, the transfer will take place and indigenous production of the tank will commence,' he said earlier this.
India had purchased 310 of the tanks in 2001 and was to produce under licence another 1,000 T-90s. However, delays in the technology transfer prompted India to sign a contract with Russia in 2006 for 347 tanks to ensure adequate force levels.
The cost of the additional 347 tanks was 4900 crore.
By all indications yes; including the exercises the T 90 has been a part of.
Links to any news report would be helpful.During Ex Ashwamedha 2007 Arjuns performed perfectly where as t-90s ended up having torsion bar problems.So participation in exercises is not sufficient.
Well if was so they would not have ordered the 124 maintained a regiment; did tests and kept engaged with DRDO/CVDRE/Avadi for over 20 years now? Please dont say ALL the delay was ONLY IA fault.
Well nowhere have I said that all of the problem is the armyâ€™s.The blame has to go bothways.but the point being made is that considering the significance of inhouse efforts in the long term the army should cut the developers a bit more of the slack.The incidents happening in recent times IMHO shows that there is still room for the army to develop a more mature attitude towards all of this which havenâ€™t been the case.
No why should there be; there is no process for that -- Arjun has reports since its Indian development -- there are reports on all Indian developments -- there are none on acquisitions.
Well I donâ€™t know.The point I was making is that these kind of reports given by the army in the manner that was ,could seriously affect the future of indigenous efforts.On the other hand if similar problem regarding imported content is overlooked points to a serious malady in the institution.
Let the testing bear that out; shall we; as we agreed in the baseline there are problems still however that does not seem to have slowed down the army. WHY is the bloody OFB taking so long.
Yes..lets wait and see.
Yes and they are doing the same with Arjun
Sorry, lets disagree there.
however the tanks have different pedigree and Arjun needs lots more hand holding T 90 was up and running with far less. Army is still hand holding Arjun in terms of LSP tests etc.
And a lot more hand holding should be given particularly looking to the future.F.e. the plan is to manufacture 1000 t-90s by 2020.If development is allowed to continue ,in all probability an Arjun will make mincemeat of the already obsolete T-90 in 2020.
Anyway how far the commitment and long term vision of the army goes will be evident in a few days I am guessing.
It is not IA for sure; must be DDQA.
I am not saying itâ€™s the IA.I am saying if they are saying in the report that DGQA isnâ€™t maintaining the quality of Arjun then itâ€™s a problem with the DGQA and not with the tank since the same authorities also do QA for other products.
Why should IA by blamed for not driving the MoD when the power and responsibilty and structure is other way around?
Agreed the IA cannot be blamed and the less said about the Mod the better..But then again whats keeping them from being proactive?If developing and inducting a tank(Arjun) is made a top priority [and thery are the end users!!]why not try to make it smoother by ironing out the chinks?Whats keeping them from atleast making the right kind of noises?And this is how we come to the point that the army is not at all integrated with the development.Are they even interested?And thatâ€™s a problem which has to be solved for avoiding future Arjun type experiences.