Sanjay, In most of India, the police constable is the face and authority of the Govt of India. Even if its ceremonial, the authority is recognised. This is why there are longlines of patronage.
Where there is need for more serious weaponry is in places where the authority is challenged.
This thread was started in 2006. If one goes from page one there are numerou sop-eds on police reforms by ex _IAS and IPS folks. I would like a summary of the most common reforms suggested. then tere is the CBI reforms and the need for a central investigative agency responsible for inter state crimes. Recently the Home Minster Patil articulated the need for one.
Indian Police Reform
Not just in India mate - right here in Trinidad too.
The sentries at our police stations even when well armed do not inspire confidence. They are more likely to spend their time making passes at every woman who walks by than actually guarding the installation.
But back to India.
The 1977 report is still the basis for police reform in India. I think that it even touched on the issue of the Gram Rakshak Dal being resurrected for village policing.
Ramana has raised an interesting point - outside the armed battalions and commandos and outposts in strategic/vulnerable districts -is there any real need for the 0.303 Enfield to be replaced ?
I mean if the weapon is rendered serviceable and in good repair - no mean requirement in some police departments - there are ample stocks of ammunition to keep them going for decades.
Does the average civil police constable in either urban or rural areas need an INSAS or SLR ?
For patrol officers in cars or jeeps I can see the need for more compact firepower such as pistols or 9mm SMGs but what of the others ?
Perhaps instead of trying to replace all 500,000+ 0.303s, we should concentrate on getting those in police service in working order and to ensure full weapons availability to the Home Guards as a reserve ?
BTW, check this site for an idea of the TOE for an India Reserve Battalion:
http://police.and.nic.in/irb.htm
The sentries at our police stations even when well armed do not inspire confidence. They are more likely to spend their time making passes at every woman who walks by than actually guarding the installation.
But back to India.
The 1977 report is still the basis for police reform in India. I think that it even touched on the issue of the Gram Rakshak Dal being resurrected for village policing.
Ramana has raised an interesting point - outside the armed battalions and commandos and outposts in strategic/vulnerable districts -is there any real need for the 0.303 Enfield to be replaced ?
I mean if the weapon is rendered serviceable and in good repair - no mean requirement in some police departments - there are ample stocks of ammunition to keep them going for decades.
Does the average civil police constable in either urban or rural areas need an INSAS or SLR ?
For patrol officers in cars or jeeps I can see the need for more compact firepower such as pistols or 9mm SMGs but what of the others ?
Perhaps instead of trying to replace all 500,000+ 0.303s, we should concentrate on getting those in police service in working order and to ensure full weapons availability to the Home Guards as a reserve ?
BTW, check this site for an idea of the TOE for an India Reserve Battalion:
http://police.and.nic.in/irb.htm
Sachin, yeah, Shree Rameshan Nair was an SI! wow, you do know KP really well 
Met with him a few times during my college days, when he used to stay somewhere around the Secratariat. I was interested in some old myths about crimes and the weapons used. Lost contact with him later on.
Sanjay, the SLRs are handled by the newer recruits, along with the older rifles. So the older ones are not being retired completely. The Kerala study suggested that sidearms serve the cops better, particularly since the rifle's longer range does not provide any additional advantage in their normal operational areas.
Met with him a few times during my college days, when he used to stay somewhere around the Secratariat. I was interested in some old myths about crimes and the weapons used. Lost contact with him later on.Indeed, I believe that this is one of the key reasons that the states did not split up after Independance. The whole much maligned ferrite frame-wallahs and the .303 toting cops. If every state had their own departmental rules, things would have been even more patchy and unmanageable. But now that India has also changed a lot, the law enforcement aspect should be emphasised more than the "authority reminder" part. The whole "nbjprie" thingyramana wrote:Sanjay, In most of India, the police constable is the face and authority of the Govt of India. Even if its ceremonial, the authority is recognised. This is why there are longlines of patronage.
Sanjay, the SLRs are handled by the newer recruits, along with the older rifles. So the older ones are not being retired completely. The Kerala study suggested that sidearms serve the cops better, particularly since the rifle's longer range does not provide any additional advantage in their normal operational areas.
hnair, your comments are 100% valid.
My core question is - do all civil police recruits need to be trained on SLRs or INSAS or should the focus be on getting them to handle the 0.303 properly ?
As far as I can tell, in the last 2-3 yrs, the states have procured at least 72,000 INSAS rifles, 24,000 SLRs and 35,000 AKs. However, though I know that there was a shortage of 154,000 pistols, I do not know what efforts were made to rectify that.
My core question is - do all civil police recruits need to be trained on SLRs or INSAS or should the focus be on getting them to handle the 0.303 properly ?
As far as I can tell, in the last 2-3 yrs, the states have procured at least 72,000 INSAS rifles, 24,000 SLRs and 35,000 AKs. However, though I know that there was a shortage of 154,000 pistols, I do not know what efforts were made to rectify that.
The ceremonial sentry is just for that purpose - i.e "ceremonial"Sanjay wrote:The ceremonial constable is virtually useless in the event of a surprise attack. How will he load his rifle fast enough ?
. In many cases I feel this is just a legacy from the days of the Raj. These laws were written then and may be nobody dares them to touch them now.The concept of a "civil" police and an "armed/military" police is not valid in some states. That is because each state has a seperate recruitment policy. In Kerala every constable gets in to an Armed Police battalion, then the Armed Reserve and then finally the local "civil" police. Where as in Karnataka, the recruitment for civil police is separate, and that for Disrict AR and the the KSRP are different. People who join these units remain in these units for life.My core question is - do all civil police recruits need to be trained on SLRs or INSAS or should the focus be on getting them to handle the 0.303 properly ?
I feel the Kerala model is better suited because:-
1. Every constable gets the same level of training. Young constables are more in KAP and AR units, and these units are used for riot control. This is extremely usefel when dealing with student rioters etc. They require young and tough policemen to thrash them up, rather than old policemen of the "armed/miltary" police. There is also an option given for people to stay back in these units, and not to move to local police.
2. A constable coming into the local police would be more matured, and he would also have got some prior experience in local policing. AR policemen are attached to local police station, before getting inducted to the local police.
3. And in case of an emergency, thanks to the uniform training local policemen would also be in a position to handle all sorts of weapons. Modernization schemes can also be brought in in a smooth manner. When a new weapon is introduced, that is done at the AP Battalion level, and as and when the trained men reach local units, the weapons arrive too.
My understanding is that it is just to modernize the police force, with far better and easy to use weapons. .303 is pretty much obsolete, with limited fire power.Does the average civil police constable in either urban or rural areas need an INSAS or SLR ?
Infact I am some times surprized that how a police constable just equipped with a lathi manages to control the situation. It is only in very few places I have seen a constable just treated like dirt, and in those places rule of law generally does not exist.ramana wrote:Sanjay, In most of India, the police constable is the face and authority of the Govt of India. Even if its ceremonial, the authority is recognised. This is why there are longlines of patronage.
Sachin, two points to consider:
(a) Should the Armed Police Battalions be involved in riot control ?
Should not a dedicated cadre of riot police be created distinct and separate from APBs ?
(b) Does the 0.303 really have limited firepower in most civil police situations ?
How is it really inferior or different to the pump-action shotguns carried as emergency weapons by many US police forces ?
I notice we're not getting any more pictures !
(a) Should the Armed Police Battalions be involved in riot control ?
Should not a dedicated cadre of riot police be created distinct and separate from APBs ?
(b) Does the 0.303 really have limited firepower in most civil police situations ?
How is it really inferior or different to the pump-action shotguns carried as emergency weapons by many US police forces ?
I notice we're not getting any more pictures !
Not every distt. has high volatile situation requiring separate riot-control police. For such areas we already have RAF ( part of CRPF if not wrong ).a) Should the Armed Police Battalions be involved in riot control ?
Should not a dedicated cadre of riot police be created distinct and separate from APBs
In a civil-police clashes , fire orders are given as last resort tht too with warning shots fired in air first . This normally brings the rioters disperse . If situation comes under control her then .303 works ok but should the need to actually shoot where armed rioters also taking shot at police then obviously there are better alternatives to .303(b) Does the 0.303 really have limited firepower in most civil police situations ?
Firepower of .303 is quite impressive so is of SLRs . ( there's a dialogue wrt to .303s firepower in Hey Ram movie
)The key problem with long barreled guns in the Indian Police context is that unlike their american counterparts, they dont have the luxury of going for a patrol in a huge car, all alone. About 5-6 cops are squeezed into a Jeep/Qualis for the local patrols and six rifles + bayonets in that situation can get tricky. So much the same as .303, even pump-action might not be a good solution. Then there is the fact that they rarely have to use their guns on patrol. The tighter gun controls in India makes the local perp rely mostly on pointed/bladed weapons in CQB. That could easily be handled by a pistol, rather than a rifle. Again, that is unlike their American counterparts, who have to stop the gun-armed perp instantly and thus need the blast effect of a shotgun.Sanjay wrote:Sachin, two points to consider:
(b) Does the 0.303 really have limited firepower in most civil police situations ?
How is it really inferior or different to the pump-action shotguns carried as emergency weapons by many US police forces ?
Atleast in states I know "Armed Police" are essentially the riot police. So much so, that in some states they only come out of the barracks to control riot situations. And in many states (except Kerala), a police man who joins the Armed Police remains there for the rest of his career. Only in Kerala, I noticed that they have an option to move out to other units.Sanjay wrote:
(a) Should the Armed Police Battalions be involved in riot control ?
Should not a dedicated cadre of riot police be created distinct and separate from APBs ?
And AP Battalions are stationed in various parts of the state, and they have enough vehicles to move around. AP Battalion and AR policemen are fully equipped with riot gear etc. etc. I feel that we already have a dedicated riot police unit, which can move into any location. In some states especially Kerala, policemen are given a choice to move to other units. But the vacancies soon get filled up, because new recruits enter the AP Battalions.
One thing I liked in the Kerala model was that it gave a policeman to have a change in his job style. Every body may not like to be part of a riot control unit whose only job is to thrash people to pulp.
RAF is also not deployed at every district or state. RAF is part of CRPF. They were created as a quick response riot control wing. Their advantage was clearly seen during communal riots, when there was a chance that the local police riot control units (AP Bn., D.A.R) etc. could become partisan.satya wrote:For such areas we already have RAF ( part of CRPF if not wrong ).
And I feel that .303 is also not an easily manouverable weapon. And in many crowded situations accurate fire etc. may not be possible. There are also chances that the bullet may hit some one else (no way connected with the incident). Infact this is one thing I noticed in the security in banks also. Many of the security guards use old double barrel guns with battery sized rounds. In a crowded bank, how is this person expected to take accurate aim and fire?hnair wrote:The key problem with long barreled guns in the Indian Police context is that unlike their american counterparts
Sachin,
That's my point. I have no problem with APBs being heavily armed and disciplined but I do believe that the job of riot control needs to be less militarized and with much more emphasis on non-lethal technology.
Armed Police Battalions are really paramilitary Gendarmarie units and there is a preponderance of firepower as opposed to "control".
BTW does anyone have any recent (past 5yrs) photos of Armed Police Battalions and/or riot police in India ?
How are riot police equipped in Kerala ?
In UP and Bihar there is still an acute shortage of riot control gear and I have still seen PAC jawans wearing those old steel derbies and carrying 0.303s shooting at rioters.
The other question we have to deal with is the very poor maintenance of police weapons. I have heard tell that weapons are kept unserviceable for months and years because of a shortage of armourers.
Even the constables themselves seem to have a very lackadasical attitude towards cleaning and maintaining their weapons. In Gujarat, many SLRs were rusty and then cops had the nerve to complain that they were jamming. It is very unlikely that even if those weapons were supplied in less than perfect condition, some proper maintenance would not have resolved the issue.
hnair and Sachin are correct when they raise the issue of the need for more compact weapons. Why is it that the revolver or pistol can't become the standard weapon for the beat constable and the patrol vehicle augmented by shotguns and sterling carbines ? Why is there this obsession with rifles ?
That's my point. I have no problem with APBs being heavily armed and disciplined but I do believe that the job of riot control needs to be less militarized and with much more emphasis on non-lethal technology.
Armed Police Battalions are really paramilitary Gendarmarie units and there is a preponderance of firepower as opposed to "control".
BTW does anyone have any recent (past 5yrs) photos of Armed Police Battalions and/or riot police in India ?
How are riot police equipped in Kerala ?
In UP and Bihar there is still an acute shortage of riot control gear and I have still seen PAC jawans wearing those old steel derbies and carrying 0.303s shooting at rioters.
The other question we have to deal with is the very poor maintenance of police weapons. I have heard tell that weapons are kept unserviceable for months and years because of a shortage of armourers.
Even the constables themselves seem to have a very lackadasical attitude towards cleaning and maintaining their weapons. In Gujarat, many SLRs were rusty and then cops had the nerve to complain that they were jamming. It is very unlikely that even if those weapons were supplied in less than perfect condition, some proper maintenance would not have resolved the issue.
hnair and Sachin are correct when they raise the issue of the need for more compact weapons. Why is it that the revolver or pistol can't become the standard weapon for the beat constable and the patrol vehicle augmented by shotguns and sterling carbines ? Why is there this obsession with rifles ?
Its the colonial legacy. Side arms are for officers and rifles for the sepoys. In the aftermath of the Kolkota US consulate incidents the stroy was that the .303 rifles barrels had a lot of waer and tear and were inaccurate.
I wonder what would be the roiters response if non-lethal ammo like rubber bullets are used?
Sachin those 'battery' rounds are 12 bore shot and rifled slug rounds. Quite lethal at short distance.
I wonder what would be the roiters response if non-lethal ammo like rubber bullets are used?
Sachin those 'battery' rounds are 12 bore shot and rifled slug rounds. Quite lethal at short distance.
It is not very much militarized. And it is very rarely that you see them using lethal technology like firing etc. These units essentially use less lethal means like lathi charges, tear gas, water cannon etc. If all fails, then they resort to firing. The "military" aspect is only there in much more strict training etc.Sanjay wrote:I have no problem with APBs being heavily armed and disciplined but I do believe that the job of riot control needs to be less militarized and with much more emphasis on non-lethal technology.
http://www.keralapolice.org/dpserves1.htmlHow are riot police equipped in Kerala ?
This page talks about the District Level policing in Kerala. Scroll down, you can see a PC in riot gear and also some of the tear gas shells.
And that is why I was more worried tooramana wrote:Sachin those 'battery' rounds are 12 bore shot and rifled slug rounds. Quite lethal at short distance.
. Because in a crowded bank, if the guard makes a small error in judgement, then he would be killing innocent people.Ramana, I believe you are so correct about it being a colonial legacy - as is the increasingly artificial differentiation between armed and unarmed police.
The Kolkata incident is a reflection of poor maintenance. There was relatively little that wasn't preventable. Remember you can still get a 19th century Zulu war vintage Martini-Henry ex-service to shoot straight if well maintained. I cannot see how the rifling could be allowed to wear out in those Kolkata police rifles - I mean how often do they really fire them ?
Bank security guards have traditionally been armed with shotguns worldwide. Sachin's point is valid and I wonder if 0.32 revolvers might not be more adequate ?
Regarding the riot police: Ramana, a lower-velocity 0.303 round was developed for riot control duties but the scale of issue is truly appalling. Most cops on such duty are still using full charge ball ammunition.
Tear gas shortages are common and a large number of riot policemen do not have gas masks to enable baton charges in a high tear-gas environment.
Sachin, I believe the APBs and District Reserves should be equipped and tasked completely differently. The District Reserves should, as they do now, have a primary riot control task and a secondary armed support task.
The APBs are really, when you get down to it, the State's premier line of defence against terror attack or insurgency. We need to ascertain whether they are adequately equipped for this task. I no longer believe that India can be divided into vulnerable and non-vulnerable states. Each APB now has to look to standardization of equipment and training.
Sachin, do you have an idea of the TOE in terms of weapons for an APB in Kerala or AP ?
The Kolkata incident is a reflection of poor maintenance. There was relatively little that wasn't preventable. Remember you can still get a 19th century Zulu war vintage Martini-Henry ex-service to shoot straight if well maintained. I cannot see how the rifling could be allowed to wear out in those Kolkata police rifles - I mean how often do they really fire them ?
Bank security guards have traditionally been armed with shotguns worldwide. Sachin's point is valid and I wonder if 0.32 revolvers might not be more adequate ?
Regarding the riot police: Ramana, a lower-velocity 0.303 round was developed for riot control duties but the scale of issue is truly appalling. Most cops on such duty are still using full charge ball ammunition.
Tear gas shortages are common and a large number of riot policemen do not have gas masks to enable baton charges in a high tear-gas environment.
Sachin, I believe the APBs and District Reserves should be equipped and tasked completely differently. The District Reserves should, as they do now, have a primary riot control task and a secondary armed support task.
The APBs are really, when you get down to it, the State's premier line of defence against terror attack or insurgency. We need to ascertain whether they are adequately equipped for this task. I no longer believe that India can be divided into vulnerable and non-vulnerable states. Each APB now has to look to standardization of equipment and training.
Sachin, do you have an idea of the TOE in terms of weapons for an APB in Kerala or AP ?
Sanjay, Hugh Tinker, writes in his book "India and Pakistan" that Indian Police is built on the Mughal Zabardasti practices (Summary justice and collective punishment) and the Royal Ulster Constabulary. Both are occupying forces practice. Sardar Patel with his all India emphasis brought in the first whiff of reform but the politics of the 1970s brought back zabardasti under political patronage. The key is to make the police more national and more representative.
I would like folks to look at the series of reform suggested from page one and figure out what are the most popular.
I would like folks to look at the series of reform suggested from page one and figure out what are the most popular.
In Kerala all new weapons, training courses etc. are generally introduced at this level. For example after a long round of discussions KAP (Kerala Armed Police) introduced a jungle training camp as part of their recruit training. This was for them to know the tips & tricks of search operations in forests etc. (Veerappan etc. were still at large at that time). The states only commando unit (State Rapid Action Force - SRAF) is also part of the KAP group.Sanjay wrote:The APBs are really, when you get down to it, the State's premier line of defence against terror attack or insurgency. We need to ascertain whether they are adequately equipped for this task.
But then again how modernly they are equipped, are there trainings frequently updated etc., those are the stuff which we do not have details about. Karnataka had also carved out special task force (STF) etc. from their Karnataka State Reserve Police (KSRP) battalions to hunt down Veerappan. Tamil Nadu Special Police (TSP
), as far as I know have a good Commando Training School for them.OK here is the webpage for AP Police
AP Police Academy
One of our members, who doesnt post anymore was one of the founder in 1986!
And a history of AP Police.
History of AP Police
Links to other states police forces
Counterparts
AP Police Academy
One of our members, who doesnt post anymore was one of the founder in 1986!
And a history of AP Police.
History of AP Police
Links to other states police forces
Counterparts
Sachin: as an interesting aside, though I don't know what the STF eventually morphed into, I have a photograph somewhere (it was in Sunday magazine back in 1994-1996) with the Karnataka STF being described as having sophisticated weapons. What they actually had in a section of 10 was 1 M3 Grease Gun, 1 Thompson, 2 Sten MkII and 6 0.303 rifles !!
Bihar police commandos were in the 1990s carrying Sten Mk. V SMGs.
In Punjab some of the cops carried M1 Garands even into the late 1980s.
The truth is that the APBs are a strange lot. They are too lightly armed to be truly effective in the COIN role (only 18 LMG per battalion) and inadequately equipped for special assignments (few if any have sniper rifles and designated sharpshooters).
I am now very wary of the designation of any police unit as "commando" as they lack both the equipment and the training for such tasks (urban or rural).
Ramana, I am going to get around to the issue of police reform soon (time is a problem) but suffice it to say that the Indian police are in the situation where they inspire neither fear nor confidence.
Bihar police commandos were in the 1990s carrying Sten Mk. V SMGs.
In Punjab some of the cops carried M1 Garands even into the late 1980s.
The truth is that the APBs are a strange lot. They are too lightly armed to be truly effective in the COIN role (only 18 LMG per battalion) and inadequately equipped for special assignments (few if any have sniper rifles and designated sharpshooters).
I am now very wary of the designation of any police unit as "commando" as they lack both the equipment and the training for such tasks (urban or rural).
Ramana, I am going to get around to the issue of police reform soon (time is a problem) but suffice it to say that the Indian police are in the situation where they inspire neither fear nor confidence.
Sanjay, there is a sniper/counter-sniper type of role for what are loosely termed "Kerala Police Commandos". Apart from HRT/Proximal security type stuff, I think some of them they do deck themselves up in home-made gilli-suits et al. Once a while they setup a military-sniper style demo for some visiting dignitary on how close they can get to them before detection etc. Regarding practical applications, the key reason I heard is that they are good to hunt down or collect info on poachers and drug/hooch dealers in the forest. An aside, the current Kerala police chief is quite a decent marksman on his own right.
Tthe "Armed Police" tag doesn't mean they are always lethally armed. As Sachin mentioned, they are mostly equipped with non-lethal gear. The lethal weapons are operationally handled by only a few. Only when the situation gets out of hand and a lot of other innocent lives can be lost because of the presence of lethal weapons (bladed, crude bombs or firearms) amongst the troublemakers, would they fire. Even then, they need approval from a civil authority, particularly a DM/Collector. And when that happens, only a select few, who are known to be stable and reasonably good shooters are given the orders. The warning rounds in the air are then fired and later on, if need be, the targets are shot in the legs (particularly if armed with bladed/pointed weapons). But by then, the issue has passed beyond the hands of the police and is up to their bosses, the politicians to handle. So an average AP unit of India are not exactly oriented for COIN, unless that area needs COIN.
Only later in their career, when they move on to the local police stations after their stint in AR do they develop into the more comfortable rolly polly mango shape that we are all used to.
Tthe "Armed Police" tag doesn't mean they are always lethally armed. As Sachin mentioned, they are mostly equipped with non-lethal gear. The lethal weapons are operationally handled by only a few. Only when the situation gets out of hand and a lot of other innocent lives can be lost because of the presence of lethal weapons (bladed, crude bombs or firearms) amongst the troublemakers, would they fire. Even then, they need approval from a civil authority, particularly a DM/Collector. And when that happens, only a select few, who are known to be stable and reasonably good shooters are given the orders. The warning rounds in the air are then fired and later on, if need be, the targets are shot in the legs (particularly if armed with bladed/pointed weapons). But by then, the issue has passed beyond the hands of the police and is up to their bosses, the politicians to handle. So an average AP unit of India are not exactly oriented for COIN, unless that area needs COIN.
Regarding the reorientation of Police, yeah that is what we all agree on - the power projection role has to be toned down to more of local law enforcement. But fear they invoke even now - never try to face-off a contingent of KAP . For a lot of the Kerala troopers were/are State or National level athletes and are insanely fit. They will easily outrun/outswim most of us, despite their gearRamana, I am going to get around to the issue of police reform soon (time is a problem) but suffice it to say that the Indian police are in the situation where they inspire neither fear nor confidence.
Only later in their career, when they move on to the local police stations after their stint in AR do they develop into the more comfortable rolly polly mango shape that we are all used to.Infact we can easily make out a PC, with his regulation hair cut the thick moustache the types of shoes he wears etc. And based on the size of the pot belly, we can check whether they are from KAP (tough, no paunch), AR (slight paunch) and Local PC (it depends..):D.hnair wrote:Only later in their career, when they move on to the local police stations after their stint in AR do they develop into the more comfortable rolly polly mango shape that we are all used to.
Common Integrated Police Application
http://elearning.nic.in/student-trainee ... automation
Check up the link to see a sort of system study for CIPA the Police network project which is on its way in many states. The report seems to be an academic one (and not prepared by any Police Dept.).
http://elearning.nic.in/student-trainee ... automation
Check up the link to see a sort of system study for CIPA the Police network project which is on its way in many states. The report seems to be an academic one (and not prepared by any Police Dept.).
hnair, is that picture really of a sniper/counter sniper or of a KAP constable in DPM cammo with an INSAS and binoculars ?
I know that in the 1990s Punjab purchased 450 sniper rifles for its 10 commando battalions of which 7 battalions were assigned to the India Reserve. It is interesting to see the conspicous absence of sharpshooters and/or snipers among the metropolitan police forces and their commando units.
Kerala indeed has an interesting make up. However, I know the situation is far from similar elsewhere. Once in APB, always in APB in some states.
The latest MHA report (and MOD report) is available on line. The MHA has now supplied 305,000 INSAS to the CPMFs.
I know that in the 1990s Punjab purchased 450 sniper rifles for its 10 commando battalions of which 7 battalions were assigned to the India Reserve. It is interesting to see the conspicous absence of sharpshooters and/or snipers among the metropolitan police forces and their commando units.
Kerala indeed has an interesting make up. However, I know the situation is far from similar elsewhere. Once in APB, always in APB in some states.
The latest MHA report (and MOD report) is available on line. The MHA has now supplied 305,000 INSAS to the CPMFs.
Last edited by Sanjay on 08 May 2008 21:14, edited 1 time in total.
Sanjay, yes, that is a KAP constable with an INSAS and binoculars, a rarity in KAPSanjay wrote:hnair, is that picture really of a sniper/counter sniper or of a KAP constable in DPM cammo with an INSAS and binoculars ?
They pick out the best rifle marksmen, who can shoot well at range. Maybe they don't need an H&K PSG1 for the targets they operate against. Their targets are usually country firearm wielding snipers in the forests, when cops go for raids. So yeah, not pretty a picture as Carlos Hathcock, but he apparently does his job of counter-sniping hnair, I think I phrased my comment badly !
What I meant to say is that this man's task many not be counter sniping at all but rather the binos are for surveillance and spotting.
You might be right of course.
I was browsing through the Getty archives of the police forces in India and even in 2002, I saw the Gujarat cops moving in clapped out old vehicles and toting Sten MkII SMGs. It was depressing.
Politics aside, I wonder if those cops could have controlled the rioting even if they wanted to.
The other change I notices between 1990 and the present is how much better equipped, trained, disciplined and conditioned the CPMFs look.
The UP PAC has fully equipped 100 companies with modern weapons with the standard rifle being the SLR.
Apparently the problem is not so much the supply of weapons by the MHA but the fact that these weapons go straight into storage.
I also found this little snippet regarding the Satara district in 1958 at
http://www.maharashtra.gov.in/english/g ... olice.html
"The armament of the district police in 1958 consisted of 30 carbine machine guns, 956 rifles of.303 bore, 670 muskets of.410 bore. 23 revolvers of.455 bore, 45 revolvers of.38 bore for the use of the police and 5 rifles of.22 bore for imparting training to the public in rifle shooting. Besides these arms, there were 70 rifles of.303 bore, 135 muskets of 410 bore and 21 revolvers of.455 bore for use of the Home Guards.
Besides the men are trained in musketry. An Emergency Company of 100 armed men is maintained and given practice with the rifles of.303 bore. Sixteen men from the Emergency Company are also trained with carbine machine guns. A Tear Smoke Squad of one Sub-Inspector, two head constables and 12 constables is formed for the district and along with this strength, five head constables and two constables are trained in tear smoke.
The district had a fleet of 15 motor vehicles in 1958."
For the district of Dhulia in 1963 there were
"The armament of the district police in 1963 consisted of 5 carbine machine guns, 461 rifles of.303 bore, 21 rifles of EY (Italian rifles), 616 muskets of.410 bore, 36 revolvers of.455 bore, 22 revolvers of 38 bore for the use of police and 5 rifles of.22 bore for imparting teaming to the public in rifle shootings. Besides these arms, there-were 149 muskets of.410 bore and 24 revolvers of.455 bore for use. of the Home Guards.
An Emergency Company of 48 (8 Head Constables and 40 Constables) armed men is maintained and given practice with the rifles of.303 bore. Some Head Constables are also trained in the working of carbine machine guns. A Tear Smoke Squad of 5 Head Constables and 25 Constables is formed for the district."
I wonder if anything has changed now or if those weapons are still there ?
What I meant to say is that this man's task many not be counter sniping at all but rather the binos are for surveillance and spotting.
You might be right of course.
I was browsing through the Getty archives of the police forces in India and even in 2002, I saw the Gujarat cops moving in clapped out old vehicles and toting Sten MkII SMGs. It was depressing.
Politics aside, I wonder if those cops could have controlled the rioting even if they wanted to.
The other change I notices between 1990 and the present is how much better equipped, trained, disciplined and conditioned the CPMFs look.
The UP PAC has fully equipped 100 companies with modern weapons with the standard rifle being the SLR.
Apparently the problem is not so much the supply of weapons by the MHA but the fact that these weapons go straight into storage.
I also found this little snippet regarding the Satara district in 1958 at
http://www.maharashtra.gov.in/english/g ... olice.html
"The armament of the district police in 1958 consisted of 30 carbine machine guns, 956 rifles of.303 bore, 670 muskets of.410 bore. 23 revolvers of.455 bore, 45 revolvers of.38 bore for the use of the police and 5 rifles of.22 bore for imparting training to the public in rifle shooting. Besides these arms, there were 70 rifles of.303 bore, 135 muskets of 410 bore and 21 revolvers of.455 bore for use of the Home Guards.
Besides the men are trained in musketry. An Emergency Company of 100 armed men is maintained and given practice with the rifles of.303 bore. Sixteen men from the Emergency Company are also trained with carbine machine guns. A Tear Smoke Squad of one Sub-Inspector, two head constables and 12 constables is formed for the district and along with this strength, five head constables and two constables are trained in tear smoke.
The district had a fleet of 15 motor vehicles in 1958."
For the district of Dhulia in 1963 there were
"The armament of the district police in 1963 consisted of 5 carbine machine guns, 461 rifles of.303 bore, 21 rifles of EY (Italian rifles), 616 muskets of.410 bore, 36 revolvers of.455 bore, 22 revolvers of 38 bore for the use of police and 5 rifles of.22 bore for imparting teaming to the public in rifle shootings. Besides these arms, there-were 149 muskets of.410 bore and 24 revolvers of.455 bore for use. of the Home Guards.
An Emergency Company of 48 (8 Head Constables and 40 Constables) armed men is maintained and given practice with the rifles of.303 bore. Some Head Constables are also trained in the working of carbine machine guns. A Tear Smoke Squad of 5 Head Constables and 25 Constables is formed for the district."
I wonder if anything has changed now or if those weapons are still there ?
MP ordering DIG or CRPF to 'stay within limits of your camp'
I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, else please move to the appropriate thread.
Today's Telegraph has printed the transcript of conversation between the Honourable Mr Lakshman Seth, MP and Mr. Alok Raj, DIG of CRPF during the Panchayat Elections in WB.
Today's Telegraph has printed the transcript of conversation between the Honourable Mr Lakshman Seth, MP and Mr. Alok Raj, DIG of CRPF during the Panchayat Elections in WB.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080512/j ... 258813.jsp
‘Mr Raj, stay within limits of your camp’
- Cellphone loudspeaker blares MP’s order to CRPF officer
The following is the conversation between Alok Raj, the deputy inspector-general of the CRPF, and Lakshman Seth, the CPM MP representing Tamluk which covers Nandigram, on Sunday morning soon after voting for the panchayat polls started. Lakshman Seth (LS) called Alok Raj (AR) at 9.10am. The conversation is being reproduced verbatim. Transcript courtesy: STAR Ananda.
AR: Why this false FIR against me, Mr Seth? Do you think I am the kind of person to go and molest a lady? Please answer me.… Of course, I respect you, you are an MP, Mr Seth, I respect you.… I am not exceeding my limit sir.… No sir, I am not.… You are trying to pressurise me and blackmail me.… I am listening to you sir, you are an MP, why should I not listen to you? Par koi aadmi merey khilaaf media mein yeh sab kyun keh raha hay? (Raj is referring to the allegation that he molested two women on Saturday night)
(Phone in loudspeaker mode)
LS: You first learn some courtesy. I rang you up, and you handed the phone over to someone else?
AR: No sir, that’s not how it happened. I was busy doing something else. I wouldn’t have taken the call if I didn’t want to speak to you.
LS: You are a government officer on duty, you must keep your phone on.
AR: I have done that. I have received hundreds of calls since morning.
LS: I was very hurt Mr Raj, I called you and you.…
AR: I am also very hurt sir, there’s a false FIR against me. Why? What wrong have I done?
LS: That’s for the police to investigate.
AR: You listen to me sir, I am trying to protect the citizens of this area, and there’s a false FIR against me. I am just doing my duty.
LS: No, Mr Raj, you have not.…
(Speaker switched off)
AR: I have not even touched your person. It is totally false....They have seen me? What time? 4.30 in the afternoon? I was at the police station sir, there was a meeting.… Mr Seth, I went to the police station straight from Rajaramchak (in Nandigram).... Listen to me, please.… Mr Seth, please listen.… listen to me, sir!... I did not go to number 7 Jalpai… whoever is saying I did, is totally wrong. Aap please verify kijiye.
(Speaker switched on)
LS: All this is for your unrestricted movement.
(Speaker switched off)
AR: Let me clarify. Mr A.K. Sarkar, IG of West Bengal, has given in writing that the CRPF will act as per the existing SOP (standard operating procedure) and existing areas of responsibility.… I am moving with the local police and a magistrate... yes, the magistrate is with me... they are right here, Sir!
(Speaker switched on)
LS: I am sitting with the local police.
AR: Aap please verify kijiye, sir! I am with the local police and a magistrate has been on the move with us.
LS: You are completely beyond the control of local administration.
AR: Let me clarify very politely, I am not working under the district administration.
LS: That is okay, that we know.
AR: I am working as a team with the local administration. I am very hurt with the false allegation. And I am telling you, sir, I will go to the honourable court and ask for a CBI or a judicial inquiry into this. Why the false FIR? It’s my fundamental right. I am not harming anybody... I am just doing my patrolling, nothing else.
LS: You should stay within the limits of your camp.
AR: Mr Seth, how can you? How can you direct me as to whether I should stay in or move outside my camp?
LS: You should.
AR: No, no! You cannot direct me. You are calling on my mobile, saying this on record.
LS: Yes, I am telling you on behalf of the local administration.
AR: No, Mr Seth. You cannot confine me to the camp. You cannot direct me in this regard.
LS: I am telling you this as per the government’s policy. I am not directing you.
AR: No, sir, you can’t tell me to stay within the confines of our camp.
(Speaker switched off)
Executive magistrate Tapan Kumar Pramanik talks to Seth on Alok Raj’s phone: Yes, sir.… I have been assigned to stay with them... yes of course, we are all with them.… We have been with them throughout... yes... of course you can take my word for it.
AR to Pramanik: The media are watching. I don’t know why he’s doing this
The M1 is a hell of a rifle.Sanjay wrote:Sachin: as an interesting aside, though I don't know what the STF eventually morphed into, I have a photograph somewhere (it was in Sunday magazine back in 1994-1996) with the Karnataka STF being described as having sophisticated weapons. What they actually had in a section of 10 was 1 M3 Grease Gun, 1 Thompson, 2 Sten MkII and 6 0.303 rifles !!
Bihar police commandos were in the 1990s carrying Sten Mk. V SMGs.
In Punjab some of the cops carried M1 Garands even into the late 1980s.
The truth is that the APBs are a strange lot. They are too lightly armed to be truly effective in the COIN role (only 18 LMG per battalion) and inadequately equipped for special assignments (few if any have sniper rifles and designated sharpshooters).
I am now very wary of the designation of any police unit as "commando" as they lack both the equipment and the training for such tasks (urban or rural).
Ramana, I am going to get around to the issue of police reform soon (time is a problem) but suffice it to say that the Indian police are in the situation where they inspire neither fear nor confidence.
Re: MP ordering DIG or CRPF to 'stay within limits of your c
Good to see that the police officer stuck to his guns. BTW, what is the status of the MP? I guess he is still there will all his undue privileges intact.Amitava wrote:Today's Telegraph has printed the transcript of conversation between the Honourable Mr Lakshman Seth, MP and Mr. Alok Raj, DIG of CRPF during the Panchayat Elections in WB.
X-posted...
RaviBg wrote:Modernisation on Assam Rifles meet agenda
The two-day Assam Rifles Commanders’ Conference discussed issues pertaining to operational preparedness, administrative efficiency and modernisation plan of the oldest paramilitary force in the country. The two-day conference was inaugurated by the Director General of Assam Rifles (DGAR) Lt Gen Paramjit Singh at Shillong on Monday.
The conference also discussed rationalisation of manpower, man management issues, civic action programmes, improvement in communication and transit facilities, prompt disposal of disciplinary cases, appropriate action to dilute anomalies in pay and allowances, improved state of accommodation and medical care, greater educational opportunities and enhanced financial benefits for the serving and retired personnel of the Force.
The annual conference is held to coordinate smooth functioning of Assam Rifles units and to examine the administrative and logistics aspects of the Force.
In the conference, emphasis was laid in drawing lessons from past experience in various fields and improving upon these aspects for an overall better efficiency of the Force.
Singh told delegates that the conference must focus on an honest and critical self appraisal, rather than self praise. He urged the commanders to be more adaptive in their style of command, in view of the changing aspirations of the soldiers in present socio-economic milieu.
Re: MP ordering DIG or CRPF to 'stay within limits of your c
First, he's an officer of the CRPF, and second he's a DIG.Sachin wrote:Good to see that the police officer stuck to his guns. BTW, what is the status of the MP? I guess he is still there will all his undue privileges intact.
Imagine the pressure that these rogue politicians put on the state and local officers.
Blackberries to be connected to database
Bangalore, Wednesday, May 14, 2008
Police officials have been using Blackberries to book traffic violation cases since January and the automation centre is being used to issue notices. Earlier, both used to function separately with a different database.
If a rider violates norms, his previous details and failure to pay fine will be displayed by the Blackberry. An erring rider will have to pay additional fine for repeated violations. The driving licence will be confiscated for drunken driving and sometimes violations will also attract imprisonment.
If the erring riders have failed to pay fine and are caught for the second time, they will have to pay both the fines. Or they may submit the DL and vehicle and claim the same by approaching the court.
Fine amount can be paid in 35 automation centres or in head automation centre, Utility Building or in any Bangalore One centre. Till April 31, cases were registered against 5,71,682 persons and Rs 8,28,26,650 was collected as fine.
Re: MP ordering DIG or CRPF to 'stay within limits of your c
He's an IPS officer, on deputation to the CRPF. Hes not a CRPF cadre DIG. Nevertheless, not being a WB cadre officer, he is outside this clowns squeeze, even in respect of future retribution.Amitava wrote:First, he's an officer of the CRPF, and second he's a DIG.Sachin wrote:Good to see that the police officer stuck to his guns. BTW, what is the status of the MP? I guess he is still there will all his undue privileges intact.
Imagine the pressure that these rogue politicians put on the state and local officers.
Quite a blatant attempt to ensure that the CRPF is demoralised and unable make sure that the polls arent influenced by CPM agents.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20080523/cth1.htm#4
Cops chip in and repair the road
Panchkula, May 22
The efforts of an enthusiastic young police officer proved a boon for the commuters of National Highway No.22 as well as the locals when Pinjore remained traffic jam-free after a long time near here today.
.....A resident of Kalka was allegedly died last week when his relatives could not shift him to a hospital in time because of long queues of vehicles stranded at Pinjore.
A baby was also born on way to hospital when the would-be mother was being shifted to the civil hospital of Panchkula a fortnight ago......
Cops chip in and repair the road
Panchkula, May 22
The efforts of an enthusiastic young police officer proved a boon for the commuters of National Highway No.22 as well as the locals when Pinjore remained traffic jam-free after a long time near here today.
.....A resident of Kalka was allegedly died last week when his relatives could not shift him to a hospital in time because of long queues of vehicles stranded at Pinjore.
A baby was also born on way to hospital when the would-be mother was being shifted to the civil hospital of Panchkula a fortnight ago......
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Nayak
- BRF Oldie
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Appeal: Join protest against UP cops for leaking Aarushi's mails
Good stand by TOI. Despicable behavior by the pandus.Dear reader,
The Uttar Pradesh police is on its worst behaviour yet. Today it has leaked to the media, transcripts of Arushi's chat and email with three of her intimate friends. The transcripts, supposedly, are part of the case papers it has produced before the court.
This is invasion of an individual's privacy; it amounts to character assassination of a minor girl who is dead. The behaviour is unacceptable, and it must be condemned.
Two murders have taken place in a house. Instead of putting forward scientific evidence such as fingerprints and DNA test results to nail the accused, the police is calling press ops, leaking intimate papers and loosely discussing private lives, including those of children – and trying to reclaim its case by suggesting the father is loose, the child is loose, the child's friends are loose!
The police may have its reasons to break into the private internet account of a person to find evidence. It is an acceptable part of a murder probe. But the police has also a duty to guard such information, since it puts at stake the reputations of people who may yet be innocent – and sadly, in this case, it happens to be the reputation of a 14-year-old no longer around to defend it.
The police is nobody's messenger. Its job is to investigate crime scientifically and without prejudice, and bring culprits to justice. Its job is not to leak papers or to spur a trial-by-public and press.
The chat and email transcripts are part of a private conversation. Decency and propriety would demand that its privacy is guarded.
A few days ago, Minister Renuka Choudhury had reminded many about the rights of minors in the light of the police besmirching Aarushi's character at a media conference. Tomorrow, the Minister might want to take it up again with the UP government and its police, and far more strongly.
At the same time, the media too must turn the mirror on itself. The transcripts are being lapped up and freely quoted, in total disregard for Press laws on minority rights.
At timesofindia.com , we have taken the position not to publish the transcript in part or in full. We have also decided to condemn the UP police for the leak, and to deplore and protest against the use of such material in the public domain.
This is not just in keeping with the Press laws, but also in deference to the service we do as journalists, and to what we regard as our uncompromising stand on social decency and propriety.
Re: Indian Police - 2006- 2007-2008
Scums strike again against who they are paid to protect, police rape again 
Rape victim ends life at police HQ
10 Jun 2008, 0240 hrs IST,Manveer Saini,TNN
PANCHKULA: Stigmatizing the police force for failing the public, a young woman consumed poison on the premises of Haryana police headquarters on Monday as her two hapless minor daughters looked on. Alleging rape by two policemen on April 10, Sarita was pained to see the accused get away scotfree while she was being subjected to intimidation to take back her complaint.
Her fight for justice came to a tragic end in the evening when she died in PGI, Chandigarh, where she was referred to from General Hospital, Sector 6, Panchkula. Sarita leaves behind daughters Heena, 6, and Muskan, 3, and a grieving husband Subhash, allegedly framed in a motorcycle-theft case in Rohtak three months back. "The woman in her early 20s was raped by two policemen after the cops and CIA incharge demanded Rs 6,000 to release her husband arrested in the case," said sources.
Delivering a body blow to the police, Sarita chose to end her ordeal at the police HQ in Sector 6, but not before handing over a two-page letter to ADGP VB Singh, highlighting her plight.
"Despite DSP Neeraj Setia’s probe confirming rape, neither the policemen were arrested nor did investigating officers bother to get me medically examined. The accused issued threats after they failed to lure me with money," the letter said, adding, "I have tried my best to get justice but my voice has gone unheard and now I am committing suicide. Head constable Balraj and Constable Sheelak Ram are responsible for my death."
While IG, Rohtak, was asked to to probe delay in arresting accused, Singh said, "A case of abetment to suicide has been registered."
Sarita’s father Jagbir Singh was inconsolable when he and Subhash recalled police brutalities unleashed on them. Subhash said that when he woke up on Monday, he found his wife and girls missing. "I saw a letter addressed to ADGP mentioning she was threatened by accused," he added.
Meanwhile, stating that the accused had been suspended, SP Rohtak Haneef Quraishi said, "Sarita approached me two weeks after the rape but medical examination would not have established rape then."
TOI
Rape victim ends life at police HQ
10 Jun 2008, 0240 hrs IST,Manveer Saini,TNN
PANCHKULA: Stigmatizing the police force for failing the public, a young woman consumed poison on the premises of Haryana police headquarters on Monday as her two hapless minor daughters looked on. Alleging rape by two policemen on April 10, Sarita was pained to see the accused get away scotfree while she was being subjected to intimidation to take back her complaint.
Her fight for justice came to a tragic end in the evening when she died in PGI, Chandigarh, where she was referred to from General Hospital, Sector 6, Panchkula. Sarita leaves behind daughters Heena, 6, and Muskan, 3, and a grieving husband Subhash, allegedly framed in a motorcycle-theft case in Rohtak three months back. "The woman in her early 20s was raped by two policemen after the cops and CIA incharge demanded Rs 6,000 to release her husband arrested in the case," said sources.
Delivering a body blow to the police, Sarita chose to end her ordeal at the police HQ in Sector 6, but not before handing over a two-page letter to ADGP VB Singh, highlighting her plight.
"Despite DSP Neeraj Setia’s probe confirming rape, neither the policemen were arrested nor did investigating officers bother to get me medically examined. The accused issued threats after they failed to lure me with money," the letter said, adding, "I have tried my best to get justice but my voice has gone unheard and now I am committing suicide. Head constable Balraj and Constable Sheelak Ram are responsible for my death."
While IG, Rohtak, was asked to to probe delay in arresting accused, Singh said, "A case of abetment to suicide has been registered."
Sarita’s father Jagbir Singh was inconsolable when he and Subhash recalled police brutalities unleashed on them. Subhash said that when he woke up on Monday, he found his wife and girls missing. "I saw a letter addressed to ADGP mentioning she was threatened by accused," he added.
Meanwhile, stating that the accused had been suspended, SP Rohtak Haneef Quraishi said, "Sarita approached me two weeks after the rape but medical examination would not have established rape then."
TOI
Re: Indian Police - 2006- 2007-2008
The Kerala Police is planning for a new police act. The draft is now put up for comments from general public.
http://www.keralapolice.org/index8.html
http://www.keralapolice.org/index8.html
Re: Indian Police - 2006- 2007-2008
Bouncing up this thread.... by giving a link to
Karnataka State Fire Services.
Karnataka State Fire Services.
Re: Indian Police - 2006- 2007-2008
Op-Ed, Pioneer, 2 July, 2008
Interesting. So not much change from Mughal zabardasti and British way of dealing with the Irish.Reforming cops in UP
JS Rajput
Mayawati could succeed where others have failed
Only Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mayawati could have the courage to throw a challenge at herself. She has openly acknowledged the presence of corruption in police stations and asked the police to transform itself. Even if partial transformation actually takes place, it should be considered a huge achievement. It is the fond dream of more than a billion Indians that someone should take up cudgels against institutionalised corruption and malpractices.
Ms Mayawati's political detractors will no doubt react along party lines. They will recall her 'birthday collections' and the way tickets in the BSP are 'made available' to aspirants. Discussing her assessment of the State police, a group of intellectuals in Delhi was not enthusiastic. "She will forget about it the next day, something else will crop up," was the indifferent opinion of one intellectual. Others nodded approvingly. But a young person who has not yet lost hope spoke with visible confidence: "She will create history if even 25 per cent improvement is achieved."
That's true. If Ms Mayawati can stop the harassment of the weakest, put and end to the well-established 'auctioning' of police stations, if she can build a healthy relationship between the people and the police, it shall be a dream come true. The people of Uttar Pradesh are not so cynical. For instance, villagers in Hardoi district told this writer that they would like to see the transformation happen. There has been no change in the police-people relationship after independence. Who is not afraid of the police? Policemen enjoy enormous and unfettered power as well as protection, particularly in rural areas. So, irrespective of their political and caste affiliations, the villagers of Hardoi would like Behenji to succeed.
Within 24 hours of Ms Mayawati's warning to the police came a report that was typical of the way police stations function in India. Umakant Bouchar, 18, was picked up by two constables for 'helping' his uncle elope with a woman. After nine hours, he was handed over to the family; unable to walk and speak, he died while being taken to a hospital. The SP's response was predictable: "We will take action after the post-mortem report is available."
Recently, a young woman, Sarita, mother of two daughters committed suicide. She had alleged that two constables of Haryana Police had raped her, but nobody bothered to listen to the traumatised woman and the culprits remained unpunished. Such instances are many. In another incident, policemen visited a Delhi businessman to serve him a warrant and in the process beat him to death. Later, the police claimed he had hid himself in the bathroom where he fell down and died.
The demon Ms Mayawati has challenged has an all India presence and could swallow the reputation of anyone who dares to disturb it. As a result, people do not wish to have anything to do with the police lest they are harassed. Yet, they would like to see the situation change. So, Ms Mayawati will get no support from any quarter, except from the masses. Her political adversaries have already begun blaming her for "criticising her own police". Whatever happens in the near future, or does not happen at all, will indicate the inner strength and the level of conviction that she has developed in response to the faith reposed in her by the people of Uttar Pradesh.
The sharp deterioration of the law and order situation in Uttar Pradesh was one reason why people voted for the BSP in the last Assembly election, giving Ms Mayawati an absolute majority defying all predictions and estimates. She must now prove herself worthy of it. With her leadership qualities, she can achieve this goal. She has the courage to take unpopular decisions. For example, she has stopped the practice of conducting school board examinations at each and every school. This one action has brought down the pass percentage of high school examination to 40 per cent from more than 90 per cent the previous year. As many as 15 lakh students have failed this year's examination. Obviously, students were cheating in examinations and getting a pass certificate. What Ms Mayawati has done is highly unpopular, but it is a correct decision. In the long run people will appreciate it.
Clearly, Ms Mayawati has matured in her understanding of politics. Her greatest asset is her willingness to learn from experience. She has demonstrated that she can reformulate policies to expand her base. Her latest concept of social engineering is giving sleepless nights to her adversaries. Political pundits concede that her fresh approach to expand her theatre of politics could establish her as a national leader.
Re: Indian Police - 2006- 2007-2008
Deccan Chronicle, 3 july 2008
A good report is beig subjec to whining by NHRC itself. Should be ashamed of themselves.UP tops killings, AP next
New Delhi, July 2: The UP Chief Minister, Ms Mayawati’s claim of good governance remains extremely questionable, with Uttar Pradesh recording the highest number of deaths in police encounters between June 1, 2007 and June, 30 2008. Police encounters saw the death of 37 people in this state. Andhra Pradesh came next with six deaths, according to latest figures released by the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC). UP also registered the highest number of custodial deaths with 155 deaths in jail and another 16 in police custody.
UP also had the dubious distinction of registering the highest number of rapes. It had 82 rapes recorded with the NHRC while Delhi had 10 rapes, Bihar eight and Tamil Nadu six. Bihar had 102 custodial deaths in jail, Andhra Pradesh 61, Tamil Nadu 59, Madhya Pradesh 59, Delhi 17 while J&K had only two deaths. Andhra had six deaths in police custody, the National Capital Region five, Bihar three, MP four while Tamil Nadu had three. But J&K did not have a single death in this category.
Deaths by police firing have also gone down, with Tamil Nadu registering four deaths, Bihar two and Andhra two. MP and Delhi did not register a single death in these categories. Former UP chief minister Mulayam Singh Yadav has publicly questioned the "encounter record" of the state government and has warned against launching a public agitation against Ms Mayawati.
But NHRC records on fake encounter cases disposed of during 2004-2005 show that the SP-ruled UP had 54 cases while Gujarat had one fake encounter case. Congress-ruled AP had five and Haryana four. In Gujarat, only five encounter cases were pending, in AP 21, Maharashtra 29, UP 175, while the NCR had 18. The number of cases registered with the NHRC for J&K in 2006-7 in all categories were 94. In all, the NHRC has registered 2,895 cases in J&K during the last decade.
Commenting on these declining numbers, activists pointed out that the NHRC cannot independently investigate violations by the armed forces under Section 19 of the Human Rights Protection Act.It can only seek a report from the Central government and make recommendations. Since such reports are sought from the very agency that is accused of the violations, they rarely uncover abuses. According to sources in the NHRC, this causes serious problems of determining accountability for human rights abuses by the police and troops in areas of armed conflict.
Re: Indian Police - 2006- 2007-2008
crossposting it here from Nukkad....
Tanaji wrote: http://in.rediff.com/news/2008/jul/10body.htm
The depravity of the human soul never fails to amaze. Just when you have seen it all, there are always new depths to plunge to.
Kudos though to the nameless police officer who worked with Mitul. First just a constable and then a jeep with 3 constables... how many people will spare 3 over worked people under their command for this? It's technically not even his job...
Re: Indian Police - 2006- 2007-2008
Mumbai Riots 1992-93 and the many lies of Jyoti Punwani :
No sooner did the courts ordered 3 people to 1 year imprisonment, Jyoti Punwani is back to her usual games of blamingeveryone except the obvious. In the above article, and in many others, she faults the Mumbai Police of ‘siding’ with one and ‘ignoring’ the plight of the other.
Behrampada, in suburban Bandra in Mumbai , a big –slum colony was notorious in the past for harbouring illegal activities and externed citizens.
In December 1992, when the riots started in parts of the city, Behrampada was a lawless danger zone where the law of the land did not hold. Even the Mum. Police were afraid to patrol the place , for there existed no guarantee if the patrol party would be lynched in one of the many narrow lanes of the slum colony.
Despite the clear threat to the police and to citizens in general from the colony, no steps were taken to defuse the situation. Fact of the matter being, the Cong corporator of the area would put a rabble rous-er to shame.
On December 6, 1992 at 11:00 PM in the night a Ganesh idol was was desecrated across the locality. A patrol team went inside the colony on 7 December and was promptly attacked by the mobs. The patrol team somehow managed to return back, battered but one of their accomplices, a constable was hacked to death and his body was dumped in a nullah in the colony. On the same day, two constables were hacked to death and an inspector shot to death by the Muslim rioting mobs in other parts of the city.
Later, under curfew , when a large team went to the BeHramPada colony, ammunition and bombs were discovered.
Facts such as theses never come out of the pen of the likes of JP who paint the force as EVIL and never focus on those who were killed in the line of duty.
No sooner did the courts ordered 3 people to 1 year imprisonment, Jyoti Punwani is back to her usual games of blamingeveryone except the obvious. In the above article, and in many others, she faults the Mumbai Police of ‘siding’ with one and ‘ignoring’ the plight of the other.
What Jyoti Punwani will not tell us are these facts:.Despite the police’s best efforts, they couldn’t save Madhukar Sarpotdar. “What was the evidence?” asked a constable the morning after the judgment, not having been able to find it in the news. When he was told what the magistrate had told Sarpotdar — that it was in the cross-examination — he grimaced in regret.
It is precisely this empathy by the police towards the veteran Sena leader from Bandra (east) for the last 16 years.
Behrampada, in suburban Bandra in Mumbai , a big –slum colony was notorious in the past for harbouring illegal activities and externed citizens.
In December 1992, when the riots started in parts of the city, Behrampada was a lawless danger zone where the law of the land did not hold. Even the Mum. Police were afraid to patrol the place , for there existed no guarantee if the patrol party would be lynched in one of the many narrow lanes of the slum colony.
Despite the clear threat to the police and to citizens in general from the colony, no steps were taken to defuse the situation. Fact of the matter being, the Cong corporator of the area would put a rabble rous-er to shame.
On December 6, 1992 at 11:00 PM in the night a Ganesh idol was was desecrated across the locality. A patrol team went inside the colony on 7 December and was promptly attacked by the mobs. The patrol team somehow managed to return back, battered but one of their accomplices, a constable was hacked to death and his body was dumped in a nullah in the colony. On the same day, two constables were hacked to death and an inspector shot to death by the Muslim rioting mobs in other parts of the city.
Later, under curfew , when a large team went to the BeHramPada colony, ammunition and bombs were discovered.
Facts such as theses never come out of the pen of the likes of JP who paint the force as EVIL and never focus on those who were killed in the line of duty.