Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

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Postby karan_mc » 08 Jun 2008 16:05

nice work near the engine section

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Postby sombhat » 09 Jun 2008 00:52

srai wrote:Looks quite stealthy with all the sharp angles!


This looks much better than the Aero India Mockups. Hope this is the final design. This has the killer Comanche look to it. End of Paki armour. :evil:

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Postby Kartik » 09 Jun 2008 02:53

great find ASharma ! the LCH looks good in the model form..I seriously hope that the Army does'nt go in for those uber expensive Tiger/Apache or the Mi-28 and Mangusta..considering the experience HAL now has with the Dhruv and its weaponised version, this should surely be productionised without any major hiccups. no reason why they can't wait till 2012 which is anyway the only realistic date even if the Army starts negotiations for imported gunships sometime this year.

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Postby Rahul M » 09 Jun 2008 07:54

the model is certainly good looking and more importantly, stealthy looking !
but I still have a couple of issues with it.
>> position of the flir/sensor ball. in its current position it will only be able to scan an arc of around 210-220 degree in the fore direction as against a rotor mounted system which would have covered a 360 degree arc. Also, a rotor mounted flir ball can be used in observation from behind obstacles hiding almost the whole body of the chopper.
On the upside, this position probably would have lesser drag and better maintainence profile.

>> the forward landing gear looks very basic. I know many attack choppers don't have retractable landing gear but still a retractable gear has its own advantages. Exposed landing gear would be extremely susceptible to small arms fire which can make a chopper inoperable for very little damage. And an internal gear, which can be a modification of the system used on the Naval ALH would also reduce the RCS.

Over all the machine looks well designed for RCS issues at least to the naked eye. There were also some reports of DRDO/HAL(forgot which) research on IR suppression of helicopter exhausts.
We got a winner on our hands !!

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Postby rocky » 09 Jun 2008 08:03

I don't think there is any utility for a "stealthy helicopter", if any such thing can exist. With those humongous blades, fat chance of avoiding radar, heavily angled body structure notwithstanding.

However, I'd like to expand on Rahul's point: the FLIR needs to be below the nose, and not mounted on top of it. The current position introduces a huge blindspot.

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Postby Rahul M » 09 Jun 2008 08:31

I don't think there is any utility for a "stealthy helicopter", if any such thing can exist. With those humongous blades, fat chance of avoiding radar, heavily angled body structure notwithstanding.


blades can be shaped appropriately to reduce radar return for a particular direction. specific materials can also be used which are radar absorbent/transparent for particular frequencies.

a considerable rcs reduction in even one direction(preferrebly frontal) is worth it as it drastically reduces the detection distance and hence time by enemy forces.

the canceled commanche had a frontal RCS which was supposed to be less than the hellfire missiles it carried. FAS puts it at 1/663 of the apache's frontal RCS and 1/263 of the OH-58. think of the difference in the detection distance. :shock:
an attack helicoptor with evn 10-12 times the frontal RCS of the commanche will enjoy considerable advantage over its adversaries.

BTW, anybody has any idea what sensors LCH will carry ??
especially will it have a radar ??

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 09 Jun 2008 09:11

rocky wrote:The FLIR needs to be below the nose, and not mounted on top of it. The current position introduces a huge blindspot.


The FLIR position depends on what kind of Engagement the helicopter is designed to make. If the ranges are long, top or bottom FLIR mounts don't matter very much. Based on the shape in the Pic, the blind spot does not exist unless the enemy is nearly under the helicopter!

On a side note, the LCH is not designed to be used in the same manner as the Weaponized Dhruv or the Lancer for that matter. The latter two are designed for anti infantry support at relatively close ranges near the LZs of other Dhruvs ferrying soldiers etc. In this capacity the blind spot would come into play. The LCH is another class altogether.

On the other hand, a top mounted FLIR will also allow the helicopter to look up against a colder sky. Perhaps some use of that might follow? :twisted:

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Postby Rahul M » 09 Jun 2008 09:23

The FLIR position depends on what kind of Engagement the helicopter is designed to make. If the ranges are long, top or bottom FLIR mounts don't matter very much. Based on the shape in the Pic, the blind spot does not exist unless the enemy is nearly under the helicopter!


vivek, there would still be considerable blind spots port and starboard of the cockpit, if not below it !! :P
close range SA on all directions might well be nescessary for survival in a hostile environment replete with armour and manpads.(prey and predator/prey relation as far as the LCH is concerned)

On the other hand, a top mounted FLIR will also allow the helicopter to look up against a colder sky. Perhaps some use of that might follow? Twisted Evil

I suppose you mean AA roles ? well, for that this one would suffice, it can surely look-up ? :)

any idea about the sensor fit ??

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 09 Jun 2008 09:43

Rahul M wrote:vivek, there would still be considerable blind spots port and starboard of the cockpit, if not below it !! :P
close range SA on all directions might well be nescessary for survival in a hostile environment replete with armour and manpads.(prey and predator/prey relation as far as the LCH is concerned)


I was referring to the case between above-nose and below nose arguments, but even in port and starboard conditions, the blind spots with the Thermal Imaging would be well behind the helicopter. Granted that its not as good as a rotor-top mounted design, but I ask the question that since the current sweep angle is certainly more than 200 degrees, by how much of an angle will the helicopter have to turn while hovering to cover the remaining arcs and for a light but powerful helicopter like the LCH, how much time would that take?

As for MANPADs and Triple-A, using FLIR in a countermeasures role would be near about impossible with the crew using the same for attacks in front of the helicopter. Besides, you have automated countermeasures for that. Also note that the LCH is a stand-off helicopter, and movies notwithstanding, most of its job would be done from very long ranges, presenting the forward arcs to the enemy.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shyamd » 10 Jun 2008 15:09

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Rescue workers from the Indian army participate in a week-long flood relief exercise at Kanakria Lake in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad June 7, 2008.

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A rescue worker from the Indian army participates in a week-long flood relief exercise at Kanakria Lake in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad June 7, 2008.

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1 day ago: Indian Army soldiers display arms and ammunition which they claim to have recovered from United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA) rebels at Dinjanin, about 570 kilometers (356 miles) east of Gauhati, India, Saturday, June 7, 2008. ULFA rebels have been fighting since 1979 for an independent homeland in India's northeastern Assam state.

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1 day ago: Surrendered rebels undergo training at an Indian Army's rehabilitation camp in Dinjanin, about 570 kilometers (356 miles) east of Gauhati, India, Saturday, June 7, 2008. Indian Army is training the surrendered militants in northeastern India's insurgency-ravaged Assam state so that they can earn a livelihood for themselves.


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20 hours ago: An Indian Army officer (R) trains a cadet of National Cadet Corps (NCC) during their training at a NCC camp in the northern Indian city of Chandigarh June 9, 2008. The NCC, created in 1948, is a voluntary training service for Indian school and college students, that aims to create a human resource of organised, trained and activated youths for all walks of life including the armed forces. During India's 1965 and 1971 wars with Pakistan, NCC cadets formed the second line of defence.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby gogna » 12 Jun 2008 20:12


Indian coast guard's HoverCraft

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shiv » 12 Jun 2008 21:00

I am guessing that the armed Dhruvs blind spots coincide with spots that cannot be aimed at with any of the planned weapons without repositioning the helo. if you see something on the FLIR you should be able to hit it right off.


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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shyamd » 14 Jun 2008 22:53

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Indian paramilitary soldiers and policemen inspect the site of a grenade explosion in Srinagar, India, Saturday, June 14, 2008. A paramilitary soldier and a woman were wounded in the grenade explosion outside the civil secretariat, police said.
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shyamd » 21 Jun 2008 00:31

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Indian paramilitary forces Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) stand guard in Siliguri on June 15, 2008. The Gorkha People's Liberation Front (GJM), who are demanding a separate state within India for the Gorkha people in northern West Bengal, renewed its call for an indefinite shutdown in Darjeeling Hills from the evening of June 16. Paramilitary personnel have been sent to deal with the situation arising out of the violence between pro and anti-Gorkhaland activists.

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An Indian paramilitary soldier guards a hill top as he waves towards pilgrims arriving at the base camp in Baltal, some 110 kilometers (73 miles) southeast of Srinagar, India, Tuesday, June 17, 2008. Hundreds of pilgrims annually go to the remote Himalayan shrine of Amarnath at 14,500 feet (4,420 meters) to worship an icy stalagmite representing Shiva, the Hindu god of destruction.
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3 hours ago: Indian Air Force personnel air-drop food packets to flood affected people at Patashpur, in Midnapore district, about 150 kilometers (94 miles) west of Calcutta, India, Friday, June 20, 2008. Air force helicopters and rescue workers in boats struggled to provide relief Friday to nearly 3 million people affected by monsoon floods that have ravaged eastern India, killing at least 54 people.
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From the Civil Defence and safety Expo in Bangalore

Postby shyamm » 21 Jun 2008 01:13

From the Civil Defence and safety Expo in Bangalore

From the AP Police's Greyhounds:

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From the Mumbai Civil defence stall :

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby shyamd » 27 Jun 2008 16:23

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Indian paramilitary soldiers carry the body of their colleague who died in a gunbattle at Chatrihama in the outskirts of Srinagar, India, Sunday, June 22, 2008. Indian forces shot and killed four suspected Islamic militants in clashes in Indian-controlled Kashmir on Sunday, while a policeman died in a raid on a home, police said.

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4 days ago: Indian paramilitary soldiers patrol during a gunbattle at Chatrihama in the outskirts of Srinagar, India, Sunday, June 22, 2008. Indian forces shot and killed four suspected Islamic militants in clashes in Indian-controlled Kashmir on Sunday, while a policeman died in a raid on a home, police said.
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An Indian paramilitary soldier shouts as he along with others chase away protesters during a demonstration in Srinagar, India, Wednesday, June 25, 2008. Protests continued against the killing of a local resident by police during demonstrations against the transfer of forest land to a Hindu shrine in the Muslim-majority region.
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Katare » 28 Jun 2008 00:51

:rotfl:

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby hnair » 28 Jun 2008 01:44

:rotfl: good comments

He is a riot-control policeman's dream - can't throw well/far, can't run well and this particular model comes with a non-slip handle, which also acts as a full-function remote

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Sid » 28 Jun 2008 02:20

these are actually quite sad pics, and shows whats happening there. its quite human to resist if someone tries to undermine you. people trying to undermine security guys, security guys trying to undermine local people.

i hope this cycle will end soon.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby BijuShet » 28 Jun 2008 02:32

Sid wrote:these are actually quite sad pics, and shows whats happening there. its quite human to resist if someone tries to undermine you. people trying to undermine security guys, security guys trying to undermine local people.

i hope this cycle will end soon.


Could you please elaborate on "security guys trying to undermine local people"? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say. As I see it, people are upset over a policy decision and have chosen to show their anger by throwing stones at law enforcement officials. The people are indulging in destruction of property and disruption of normal day to day activities. The picture shows the individual clearly throwing a projectile towards the law enforcement officials. The law enforcement officials in this case are carrying automatic weapons and yet choose to defend themselves with bamboo shields and are resorting to use of canes for keeping the situation under control. I really do not understand what it is that you see as sad.

In my opinion a bunch of people are breaking the law and being a menace to society. The law enforcement officials are trying to do their best in preserving law and order and are doing so in as humane a manner as possible given all the other security contraints in J&K. Please note that neither you nor I have brought forth the real issue of the protest. A quick read on the web will tell you what issue is being protested and how patently wrong the people are on this one. Only in India do we enjoy a democracy of full rights without any responsibilty.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby anupmisra » 28 Jun 2008 03:24

Where are all those Hurriet morons and Hurriet-lovers who claim that the kashmiri muslims are secular?

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Sid » 28 Jun 2008 03:29

BijuShet wrote:Could you please elaborate on "security guys trying to undermine local people"? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say. As I see it, people are upset over a policy decision and have chosen to show their anger by throwing stones at law enforcement officials. The .........................................
.....................
................. any responsibilty.


my dad is in army, so you can be quite sure my intentions are always good when i talk about armed forces of India.

but having said that situation in valley is not that good and local population is very anti-army. situation there is not black or white but a lot gray then you think.

That's why I felt sorry when I saw that picture, not out of compassion for that boy or something else but for the situation there. It has nothing to do with why that protest was organized.

--Sid

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Rahul M » 28 Jun 2008 03:39

anupmisra wrote:Where are all those Hurriet morons and Hurriet-lovers who claim that the kashmiri muslims are secular?

yasin malik is on NDTV explaining it all to barkha dutt.

barkha, for some reason doesn't seem to agree !

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby hnair » 28 Jun 2008 05:07

Sid wrote:these are actually quite sad pics, and shows whats happening there. its quite human to resist if someone tries to undermine you. people trying to undermine security guys, security guys trying to undermine local people.

i hope this cycle will end soon.


Sid, let me ignore your latest comments. But what does the bolded parts mean? What is this "undermining" that "someone" is doing? By undermining, you mean allotting forest land to a pilgrimage center, well, India is the "Undermine of the Universe". For most of the decent pilgrimage centers of India are in wilderness areas and most of them have land grants. And by "someone", you mean the "Indian Govt"? That govt that you elected and which pumps in more money to the local economy than any other state?

This cycle will end only if people stop following the advice of fakey leaders and attack the police. If this chap listened to some such leader (who AFAIK, recently returned from pureland) , then go and razz heavily armed riot cops, I can only laugh at his buffoonery.

But he is an Indian, though he has been told otherwise. So I sincerely hope that in future, he shampoo/conditions his hair for romancing a girl under the apple trees.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby AnantD » 28 Jun 2008 08:08

Well, its about time that India did anything if at all about the "ethnic cleansing" carried out in the valley by Nehru's pals.

Its only a small step, not even 1% of what Israel suggested years ago if we were serious about setting things right in K.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby BijuShet » 28 Jun 2008 21:21

Sid wrote:
BijuShet wrote:Could you please elaborate on "security guys trying to undermine local people"? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say. As I see it, people are upset over a policy decision and have chosen to show their anger by throwing stones at law enforcement officials. The .........................................
.....................
................. any responsibility.


my dad is in army, so you can be quite sure my intentions are always good when i talk about armed forces of India.

but having said that situation in valley is not that good and local population is very anti-army. situation there is not black or white but a lot gray then you think.

That's why I felt sorry when I saw that picture, not out of compassion for that boy or something else but for the situation there. It has nothing to do with why that protest was organized.

--Sid


I understand your angst about the overall situation in J&K. It is sad to see fellow citizens subjected to daily hardships on account of heightened state of security in a particular state.

Let me compare the situation to some other states in India that have experienced a temporary breakdown in law and order. Usually riots breakout and for few days the local goons take on the local police and overwhelm them with superior numbers. Then the army gets called in to restore order. The superior force of the army with its better tactics and simply by their disciplined presence brings about a semblance of law and order. This entire breakdown and restoration takes 2-3 weeks. In that time frame the local populace are greatly inconvenienced. Folks are unable to procure food and unable to go about their daily lives.

Now in J&K this has gone on for well over a decade. In the case of other states the local goons are able to be a menace because for a few days the local population i.e. the mob enjoys this show of defiance and gets to exert it’s pent up fury over all past issues. After a few days the Roti Kapda and Makan issues comes to fore and folks realize that they are better off with a semblance of law and order than the prevailing jungle raj i.e. the mob fury dissipates. The question to ask, Why in J&K the local population is not tired of this daily violence. Its not that the local tea seller there wants this daily chaos as it is surely not helping him sell more tea. Who are these people who foment trouble in the back alleys and are allowed to thrive by the locals. The local goons are the ones we need to target. Once we take them out of the equation all foreign mercenaries will stand out like a sore thumb and the so called leaders will loose their muscle groups. Without these muscle groups there cannot be any effective display of street power and most people will be able to go about their lives in peace. The real question in my mind is does the average resident of J&K want a semblance of law and order or are they happy with status quo. They are fixated on this idea of succession from mother India without asking what it would mean to them. A look at the current situation in Pakistan will provide them the answer. I also blame Govt. of India in pandering to many vested interests leading to such sad state of affairs.


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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Venkarl » 03 Jul 2008 03:07

hnair wrote::rotfl: good comments

He is a riot-control policeman's dream - can't throw well/far, can't run well and this particular model comes with a non-slip handle, which also acts as a full-function remote


I don't think it is the same guy. There is no print on "Before" T-Shirt, but on "After" there is some red print on the T-shirt. Anyways, before and after labeling aptly suited the pictures.

btw---Dhruv looks very cruel with that camo and angle....great photography

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby anupmisra » 05 Jul 2008 23:30

Venkarl wrote:
hnair wrote::rotfl: good comments

He is a riot-control policeman's dream - can't throw well/far, can't run well and this particular model comes with a non-slip handle, which also acts as a full-function remote


I don't think it is the same guy. There is no print on "Before" T-Shirt, but on "After" there is some red print on the T-shirt. Anyways, before and after labeling aptly suited the pictures.

btw---Dhruv looks very cruel with that camo and angle....great photography


Two different guys, with the same long hair. Note the difference in slippers and the amount of fading on the jeans (thigh sections).

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby soutikghosh » 06 Jul 2008 20:35

INDIAN STALLION lookalike from PANHARD

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8862/tc5401hb5.jpg
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby soutikghosh » 06 Jul 2008 20:38

ARMOURED CAB Version of the same truck.

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8045 ... e01ic8.jpg
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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby rkhanna » 11 Jul 2008 19:51

Marcos from a recent Demo in Vishakapatnam

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby ssmitra » 14 Jul 2008 00:06

Nice pictures of the marcos. Anymore. What is the rifle they are using. Doesn't look like the standard issue AK47. The end of the barrel looks more like a variant. Any guru's please shed light

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby rkhanna » 14 Jul 2008 03:15

IMO its either an Underbarrel Grenade Launcher or a ForeGrip.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Kartman » 15 Jul 2008 18:31

Phew... posting after a long time :)

The muzzle-brake on the AKs carried by the Marcos seem distinctively AK-74ish !

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Kartman » 15 Jul 2008 18:35

Have ppl noticed that there are a large number pics of fixed-stock AKMs in IA/RR-service, esp. in J&K, these days ? Don't appear to be the OFB knock-off that seen with CRPF or various state polices...

Is anyone aware of a new order for AKs from Eastern Europe or elsewhere ? The original ones imported in the 90s from Romania/Bulgaria/etc. were all folding-stock versions, IIRC...

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby ssmitra » 15 Jul 2008 19:46

Kartman wrote:Have ppl noticed that there are a large number pics of fixed-stock AKMs in IA/RR-service, esp. in J&K, these days ? Don't appear to be the OFB knock-off that seen with CRPF or various state polices...

Is anyone aware of a new order for AKs from Eastern Europe or elsewhere ? The original ones imported in the 90s from Romania/Bulgaria/etc. were all folding-stock versions, IIRC...


could they be the OFB A-7's. Does anyone know their exact specifications. Is it a modified version or a rip off.

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Re: Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Postby Kartman » 15 Jul 2008 20:20

ssmitra wrote:
could they be the OFB A-7's. Does anyone know their exact specifications. Is it a modified version or a rip off.


No... as I said, they were different ! The OFB ones are visually-identifiable by their polymer furniture and magazine... also, IIRC, they are supposed to have the same chrome-plating of the barrel which was developed for the INSAS.

In my experience, I have only seen it (either in media or personally) with CPMFs or state police types.



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