India-Russia: News & Analysis

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan Dixit » 18 Jun 2008 10:05

The deal for INS Vikramaditya (formerly Admiral Gorshkov) was signed in 2004, at a time when Russia was going through difficult times and was badly in need of money to support its industry, Russian Ambassador Vyacheslav Trubnikov told reporters here.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 138774.cms

(So, when Russians are in need of cash, they sign anything with the intention of not honoring the deal? Russian version of Hudbuya(pardon my spelling)? )

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan Dixit » 21 Jun 2008 12:25

The BrahMos missile has a range of 180 miles (290 kms) and can carry a conventional warhead of up to 660 pounds. It can hit surface targets while flying at an altitude as low as 10 meters (30 feet) and at a speed of Mach 2.8, which is about three times faster than the U.S.-made subsonic Tomahawk cruise missile.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080620/111457741.html

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Johann » 21 Jun 2008 23:10

VikasRaina wrote:
Neshant wrote:> MI 17 price upped from USD 650 M to 1000 M by the Russians


that's because they know that Indians are suckers.


would they not push India into the Arms of US/European arms industry if Russian Industry continues to fleece India like this.


There are several different things going on here

- Pricing in the immediate post-Soviet collapse was still dogged by the lack of realistic cost accounting in the industrial system. It swung between avaricious quick-buck operators and desperate garage sales, both building from the flawed base of Soviet-era imaginary prices. As the Russian economy rationalises, the sale prices of goods and services *will* rise, finally reflecting the real cost of labour, materials and energy.

Raw materials, energy, imports, etc in Russia today are sourced from private, or semi-private entities. Everybody wants to be paid in Russia these days, and paid well. Those who got used to the Soviet era, or freewheeling post-collapse era must readjust. No one, not even close friends like the autarchs in Belarus have been spared from such fundamental Russian economic readjustments.

- The Russian military industry's primary customer is once again the Russian state. High oil prices mean that the Russian MoD and MVD are buying again in big quantities, and financing next generation R&D. Their goal up to this point at least was not maximising profits, but survival and retention of skilled personnel. That decreases the importance of exports to the major military companies, which are after all state-owned. Inevitably that will make them less interested in cutting the price to make a sale, absorbing project cost overruns, or meeting export orders ahead of domestic orders.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 22 Jun 2008 15:42

Russia's in quarter-final of Euro-2008: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_bXlZ81HZw

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan Dixit » 26 Jun 2008 06:33

MOSCOW, June 24 (RIA Novosti) - Russia and India have agreed to exchange knowledge in the training of mountain troops as part of an extensive military cooperation program, an aide to Russia's Ground Forces commander said on Tuesday.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080624/111947305.html


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Rishi » 26 Jun 2008 09:50

Sanjay M wrote:http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JF25Ag01.html


X-Post :|

Hi Sanjay,

Can you post a brief precis of what exactly you are linking to and why? This will let forum members know why you think a particular link is important/relevant to the discussion.

Thanks

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 26 Jun 2008 19:25

Gen. Kapur is discussing the Mountain warfare with its Russian collegaue in Caucasus Russian region (russian) http://www.rian.ru/defense_safety/20080 ... 21314.html

Russia may end European gas supplies in favor of India and other Asian states (english)
http://en.rian.ru/world/20080624/111926234.html

By the way Russia is prepearing to the combat for Arctic resources with US and Canada:
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080624/111915879.html

More interesting: Russia and India may cooperate in next gen. tank development (russian):
http://www.k2kapital.com/news/fin/431028.html

So...

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby ranganathan » 26 Jun 2008 19:41

Igorr wrote:Russia may end European gas supplies in favor of India and other Asian states (english)
http://en.rian.ru/world/20080624/111926234.html

There is no land link for it to be true. Plus there is no point leaving your only advantage over the Europeans.
Igorr wrote:By the way Russia is prepearing to the combat for Arctic resources with US and Canada:
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080624/111915879.html

Oil and Gas I suppose.
Igorr wrote:More interesting: Russia and India may cooperate in next gen. tank development (russian):
http://www.k2kapital.com/news/fin/431028.html
So...


Doubtful. India would base it on Arjunwhile russia will prefer it to be based on T-95.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 26 Jun 2008 20:04

ranganathan wrote:
Igorr wrote:Russia may end European gas supplies in favor of India and other Asian states (english)
http://en.rian.ru/world/20080624/111926234.html

There is no land link for it to be true. Plus there is no point leaving your only advantage over the Europeans.

- India is a part of Sakhalin gas project. It's not a pipeline but the fluid gas transport by tankers.

Also a strange vision of Bulgarian prophet Vanga:
"the permafrost thaws and the floods come, nothing will survive on Earth but Russia. The climate will change and Russia will occupy the best inhabitable zone. Plus, Russia is predicted to herald in world peace and flourish in the face of good fortune.

Vanga also once said: "Everything melts away like ice yet the glory of Vladimir, the glory of Russia are the only things that will remain. Russia will not only survive, it will dominate the world." http://www.mnweekly.ru/local/20080606/55332043.html

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan Dixit » 27 Jun 2008 07:23

Did someone hack into Igorr's account? It does not sound like regular Igorr. :)

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 29 Jun 2008 02:20

It's good to see that Russians are once again in good spirits and feeling pride in their country once again, due to all its successes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/f ... 477352.stm

Often when I read European news coverage of Russia, it seems so condescending and derisive. They can never say anything good, because of their continued Cold War mentality. But the further Russia advances and heals itself, the more the rest of Europe are forced to respect Russia's health.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby JE Menon » 29 Jun 2008 13:50

>>Often when I read European news coverage of Russia, it seems so condescending and derisive.

Indeed. Although I would say the Europeans are a little better than the Americans in this respect. It seems that while the business community in the US is slipped into normal mode years ago...everyone else seems stuck in some kind of wierd timewarp... Its a wierd and pointless antagonism. The Russians of today are a significantly different ballgame and strategic proposition from the commies of old. In terms of aspirations and perspectives, they are not that different from the Americans.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 01 Jul 2008 01:59

India plan new fighter jet

Ilya Kramnik on plans to go beyond the production of BrahMos missiles

Despite occasional tensions over individual contracts, Russia and India remain the closest of partners in military technical cooperation. The recent visit to Russia by the Chief of the Indian Army, Gen Deepak Kapur, confirmed the two nations' friendly relations.

The most reported topic of discussion was the possible cooperation in designing a new-generation tank. If the project is actually implemented, India and Russia will have joint projects in making combat hardware for all the fighting services, including a fifth-generation fighter jet project for the Air Force, a frigate for the Navy, a tank for ground troops, and cruise missiles for all three services.

Russian-Indian cooperation in weapons development could lend impetus to the world's second-largest international military cooperation centre after NATO. One of the great benefits of cooperation in military R&D is the emergence of greater partnerships. In this respect, joint research and design is dramatically different from direct weapon acquisitions.

If we look at the joint military research and development projects being implemented in the world today, it would give us a fair indication of future military and political alliances. These alliances will not necessarily be documented by military agreements; the parties can simply have shared positions on major international issues and take coordinated action without sealing their decisions with a kind of Warsaw-- or Washington -- Pact.

It follows from this that India and Russia view their current partnership as a long-term strategic project, likely to endure for the next several decades, with the option of further expansion of cooperation in many important spheres including, but not limited to, military R&D. Joint development of modern weapons will help the partners not only to re-equip their own armies with advanced weaponry, but also to secure strong positions on the international arms market, where joint projects are playing an increasingly important role.

Deliveries of the new weapons to the two countries' armies and the world market will probably begin in mid-2010s, along with the planned mass production of the fifth-generation fighters. Right now, the BrahMos cruise missile systems are completing their first tests.


From Pioneer

About this report of India and Russia designing a tank together, maybe Russia wants to learn from India's hard-earned Arjun experience in designing and productionising a Western style MBT.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Neshant » 01 Jul 2008 05:53

they are not looking to learn anything.

they are just looking for someone to purchase a tank they produce.

midway they will double the price gorshkov style... contract or no contract.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 01 Jul 2008 20:22

Here was a good editorial by Cohen on Russia:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/01/ ... dcohen.php

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 04 Jul 2008 03:15

Russia's space agency is signing a deal to provide a Soyuz spacecraft for space tourism:

http://www.physorg.com/news134219408.html

I wonder if India could do this too, one day?

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 04 Jul 2008 09:42

UK Identifies Russia as Biggest Threat After Iran & Al-Qaeda

timesonline.co.uk — Britain’s security services have identified Russia as the third most serious threat facing the country, it has emerged before Gordon Brown’s first meeting with President Medvedev. Security officials say that only al-Qaeda terrorism and Iranian nuclear proliferation are greater menaces to the country’s safety than Russia.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 04 Jul 2008 19:28

Sanjay M wrote:
UK Identifies Russia as Biggest Threat After Iran & Al-Qaeda

timesonline.co.uk — Britain’s security services have identified Russia as the third most serious threat facing the country, it has emerged before Gordon Brown’s first meeting with President Medvedev. Security officials say that only al-Qaeda terrorism and Iranian nuclear proliferation are greater menaces to the country’s safety than Russia.

...and they almost killed the chief of British intelligence:
British 'super-spy' in coma amid fears of poisoning by Russian assassin

So, fear us! :mrgreen:

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Gerard » 05 Jul 2008 22:31

UPI Asia Online
Why Russia is breaking its deals
By Hari Sud

BRFite Hari Sud?

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby MukulMohanty » 07 Jul 2008 19:07

To judge from the recent exchanges between the leaders of China and Russia, all is sweetness and light in the strategic partnership between the two leading Eurasian powers. But beneath the surface, problems over military sales, trade and energy are weakening Sino-Russian relations just when they appear to be at an apex.
According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, China received 94 per cent of its conventional weapons from Russia in the five years to 2007. They included combat aircraft, helicopters, surface warships, submarines, air defence systems and an array of missiles. Yet in 2007, no new contracts for planes or ships were signed.

Analysts in Russia say that the Russian-Chinese bilateral commission on military technical cooperation has not met for two years, and that Russia's defence minister has repeatedly postponed a planned visit to China because of a dispute over the supply of Russian heavy-lift transport planes and air refuelling tankers to China.

Russia wants the contract renegotiated to raise the price and lengthen the delivery schedule. China has so far refused.

Before the stalemate, Russia's sales of arms and equipment to China made up 40 per cent of its total military exports, earning as much as $US2.5 billion ($A2.6 billion) a year. China now has more than 280 Russian Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30 Flanker fighters, 12 missile-armed submarines and four destroyers equipped with anti-ship missiles.

The lack of new orders from China may be the result of dissatisfaction with delays in the supply of the transport planes and tankers. Two other big recipients of Russian arms, India and Algeria, have also raised concerns with Russia in the past year over the poor quality and supply delays of some Russian weapons.

However, China is intent on developing its domestic arms industry to become as self-sufficient as possible. It turned to Russia because of US and European restrictions of exports of arms and related technologies. Russian and Western analysts say that China has stopped licensed production of Sukhoi fighters because it has been able to copy them and make local versions.

This has reinforced Russian reluctance to provide more advanced military equipment that China wants, including T-90 tanks, artillery and multi-role helicopters.

Russia's lack of trust in future Chinese intentions is in marked contrast with the depth of Russian military ties with India. Despite Indian complaints about the delivery delays and quality of some Russian arms, new deals were announced last year for the transfer or licensed production of Sukhoi fighters,T-90 tanks, multiple-rocket launchers and multi-role helicopters.

The delivery of the first BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles to the Indian army in 2007 also showed Russian readiness to transfer technology and engage in joint production with India.

Meanwhile, as Russia's manufacturing falters and its arms and energy exports to China decline, the balance of trade is swinging in China's favour. In 2007, China recorded its first trade surplus with Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.


China's trade with Russia in 2007 was $A50 billion, a mere 2 per cent of China's global trade, and eight times less than its trade with the US. Cast in this light, the Sino-Russian strategic partnership seems to be founded more on rhetoric than substance.

The writer is an energy and security specialist at the Institute of South East-Asian Studies in Singapore.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 10 Jul 2008 05:56


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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Rahul M » 10 Jul 2008 06:13

Gerard wrote:UPI Asia Online
Why Russia is breaking its deals
By Hari Sud

BRFite Hari Sud?

yep !

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Johann » 10 Jul 2008 15:36

Igorr wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:
UK Identifies Russia as Biggest Threat After Iran & Al-Qaeda

timesonline.co.uk — Britain’s security services have identified Russia as the third most serious threat facing the country, it has emerged before Gordon Brown’s first meeting with President Medvedev. Security officials say that only al-Qaeda terrorism and Iranian nuclear proliferation are greater menaces to the country’s safety than Russia.

...and they almost killed the chief of British intelligence:
British 'super-spy' in coma amid fears of poisoning by Russian assassin

So, fear us! :mrgreen:


Utter bull$hit.

There's nothing new about the Cheka attempting to eliminate dissidents and defectors on Western soil. It happened often enough during the Cold War. Georgi Markov's assassination in London with a ricin tipped umbrella in 1978 was only the most famous example before Litvinov.

But we never targeted each others government figures. That was a golden rule. The results were simply too unpredictable. Putin's Russia even at its most belligerent never goes further than the Soviets did - a symptom of Putin and all the others Chekists rigid training.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 12 Jul 2008 03:14

I can't help but think of the assassination of Rasputin, which was almost certainly done by British Intelligence. And this is believed to have been due to his desire to send Russian troops to support the Germans.

To me this is a strong indication of the deep potential in Russo-German cooperation, if it could have struck such fear into the British establishment to prompt them to undertake such a bold assassination.

Meanwhile, Russia is now the largest auto market in Europe:

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... 765850.htm

Given EU's predilection for expanding their empire by bypassing national parliaments and treaty votes, I don't see them as well positioned to lecture Russians on democracy, either.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby ramana » 12 Jul 2008 03:20

This potential for Russo-German cooperation is the stuff that gives nightmares to the Anglo-Saxons for it could challenge theri domination. Again try to read Pat Buchanan's new book "Churchill and Hitler". Its a peace offering to Germany.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Paul » 12 Jul 2008 03:57

That is why Poland was made the bakra to put this nightmare to rest in 1939. If Germany and USSR were to bludgeon each other to death as some in west were hoping (and I think Neville was working towards this). then Poland was to be the obvious battle ground and partitioned for the 4th time. It always beats me why the Danzig corridor was made an issue by the west. Once Asia takes it's own rightful place, WWI/II will be seen as a frivolious ghar ghar ki Kahani episode which cost Europe it's leadership in the world.

On a related note, I did make to B&N and treated myself to a mocha, but ended up reading Ahmed Rashid's Book:Pakistan's descent into Chaos instead of Buchanan's book. This is also a very good read, although not as remarkable as his other Traiblazer on the Taliban( as we already know on BRF that Pak/Afghan jihad is the main battleground and Iraq is sideshow - main conclusion here, this book is mainly for a western audience IMO)...will post my thoughts on this later (as soon as I can find some time away from SHQ and my brand new 3 month old).

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 12 Jul 2008 04:26

Meanwhile, Russian oilflows to the Czechs have dropped off, in the wake of the US-Czech missile shield agreement:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/11/europe/czech.php

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Johann » 12 Jul 2008 19:36

A few things that have either been forgotten or overlooked.

- There was German-Soviet cooperation; it was called the Rappallo Agreeement, back in 1922. Revolutionary communist Russia and defeated Germany were the two biggest outcasts within the international system, and they naturally decided to cooperate.

The German military sidestepped Versailles limitations by training and developing weapons inside the USSR. Which is why the general staff and operational concepts of the German and Soviet armies in WWII had more in common with each other than anyone else.

- It was Hitler who ended the Rappallo Agreement as soon as he came to power in 1933. The NSDAP and the German Communist Party fought each other in a deathmatch to seize power, and the Communists lost. Given that the KPD operated on Moscow's orders through the COMINTERN, Hitler regarded his battle for power as having been with Stalin and the USSR.

- Stalin was far more eager than Hitler when it came to signing the Nazi-Soviet Pact in August of 1939. They partitioned all of Eastern Europe between them from the Balkans to the Black Sea.

- Maintaining a buffer between Germany and Russia was traditionally a French priority, not a British one. British tripwires in Europe were usually centered around Belgium and Netherlands, and the Mediterranean. The idea of territorial guarantees to Poland and Czechoslovakia was that of Prime Minister Edouard Daladier.

- No government other than perhaps the French really banked on how mad Hitler was. The assumption of both Chamberlain and Stalin was that Hitler was a master bluffer who only wanted to incorporate all areas with ethnic German populations.

It wasnt until too late that anybody realised that he was really serious about the vision he sketched out in Mein Kampf and his second book of conquering and settling all Slavic states.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Paul » 13 Jul 2008 04:50

I read up on the German-Russian entente in the 1930s up in Lidell Hart's analysis of the wehrmacht in "The other side of the Hill" when I was 16. I remember it now as well as I did then. So nothing has been forgotton or overlooked. George Kennan has covered this topic in his writings as well.

Due to limited bandwidth I will hold off post a full reply for now....

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby NRao » 13 Jul 2008 05:06

Rahul M wrote:
Gerard wrote:UPI Asia Online
Why Russia is breaking its deals
By Hari Sud

BRFite Hari Sud?

yep !


Hari has been bijji

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 13 Jul 2008 07:52

Obama opposes excluding Russia from G8

I admit, I am liking some of Obama's uniquely sound positions. I also like his desire to focus more on the Afghan War. Even many Pak nationalists are now saying they prefer McCain over Obama, because they fear Obama will hold Pak more accountable, while McCain is more likely to give them a free pass as Bush is doing.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 13 Jul 2008 12:41

Johann wrote:There's nothing new about the Cheka attempting to eliminate dissidents and defectors on Western soil. It happened often enough during the Cold War. Georgi Markov's assassination in London with a ricin tipped umbrella in 1978 was only the most famous example before Litvinov.

But we never targeted each others government figures. That was a golden rule.
Oh, boy! Dont you remember attackes against Soviet diplomats in Europe, against Soviet leader by counter-revolutionary underground financed from London? Tens of CIA attemptions against Kastro?

...better something more optimic: the Russian ethnica music channel http://www.101.ru/?an=chan_popplay&uid=36&bit=128

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 13 Jul 2008 12:46

Paul wrote:I read up on the German-Russian entente in the 1930s up in Lidell Hart's analysis of the wehrmacht in "The other side of the Hill" when I was 16. I remember it now as well as I did then. So nothing has been forgotton or overlooked. George Kennan has covered this topic in his writings as well.

In 1938 France and GB signed peace accords with Hitler allowing him to occupy Chechoslovakia. Poland was then the main Germany ally and took part in Chechoslovakia occupation together with Wehrmacht, took a part of its territory. So, next year Poland and France just was "rewarded' for their roman with Hitler.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 13 Jul 2008 19:44

Here is a very elegant design for a small autogyro I found, made by a Russian inventor, Boris Polovinkin

Image

http://www.royfc.com/news/apr/0907apr01.html

First Autogyro in Russia with Vertical Takeoff and Landing Capability Created

A Novosibirsk pilot and inventor, Boris Polovinkin, has completed the first stage of tests of his unique flying apparatus.

The larger laboratories in Moscow and Irkutsk have worked on a similar invention, but our engineer has surpassed the competitors all by himself. In this connection, he has built his own “mini helicopter” in his own garage.

Boris Polovinkin worked 6 years on his apparatus. It is a unique aircraft, the first in the world in many ways. In principle, autogyros were invented a long time ago, but even today vertical takeoff and landing with these miniature flight vehicles have remained a problem.

Our engineer has assembled his own design, made some assemblies using principally new technology, and the work on the vehicle was completed at the end of last year.

Boris Polovinkin learned to fly his helicopter in fact from scratch. There were only several flights on a motorized hang-glider behind him. One may compare this with a child’s transition from a three-wheeled to a two-wheeled bike.

Only, in the child’s variant, you only get scratched when you fall, and in the helicopter training, each error can be fatal. Winter helped – a huge, level snowy space which allowed minimizing the risk.

The tests indicated that the aircraft ideally lands in the vertical variant. But the burden of the blades is not quite enough for takeoff. Although the takeoff run is minimal – literally five – seven meters. New blades are needed.

Meanwhile, our inventor already surpassed all Russian aviators. If tests with the new blades once more lead to success, then his apparatus will be the first on the global aviation scale.

Source: 09.04.07, Gorod54.RU

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby vipins » 14 Jul 2008 20:15

Russian army men to train at Indian mountain combat centre

A delegation of Russian Ground Forces officers will train in mountain warfare during a two-week trip to India that started Monday, a spokesman for the Russian military said.

Deputy commander Lt. Gen. Valery Yevnevich, along with officers from Russia's mountain brigades and the Far Eastern Military Command officer training school, will visit a training centre in Jammu and Kashmir, India's northernmost state.


The existing Russian-Indian military-technical cooperation programme, which lasts until 2010, includes up to 200 projects worth about $18 billion, according to Russia's defence ministry.

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Karan Dixit » 16 Jul 2008 07:09

Farnborough (Russia), July 15 : Russia is ready to export the new state-of-the-art Su-35 Flanker-E multi-role air superiority fighters to India and other partner countries, Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport said Tuesday.

http://www.newkerala.com/one.php?action ... s&id=85978

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Igorr » 19 Jul 2008 15:59

:)
Image

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby derkonig » 19 Jul 2008 20:15

da..the dyevscovery channel...

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Re: India-Russia: News & Analysis

Postby Sanjay M » 20 Jul 2008 06:49

Haha, Igorr, that should be used as a recruitment poster ;)

(or Russian Army can put this on their MySpace page)


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