Understanding the Great Game and role of India & Asian stability

[ramana]

Paul, Caroe used to write his stuff for the Roundtable that lor Milen founded as part of Rhodes leagacy. Quigley mentions the antecedents of Roundtable in his book that Acharya posted.

I used mininova to download it. Its 285 pages and good to read. The fascinating thing is in a book on "Anglo American Establishment" there is a chapter on India from 1911 to 1945!

What patsies we Indians are! The only good thing is they give us two and two we can quickly (play on Quigley) come to four!

[Malayappan]

Turkey as the theatre for WWIII

Chan Akya in Asia times. like him or not, he does seem to have a very different and incisive (nonwestern) perspective.

Islam as a religion seeking the Truth is fine. But when it becomes a "Way of Life" and acquires a Political Color, then it becomes a downhill ride. The transition from Political Islam to Mullahcracy is a matter of time. We have examples of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, and the article threatens Turkey could follow.

And in the context of the Game, we should factor coalescence of Wahhabi interests in our near-West. Exploration and further usage of intra religious schisms can be an extrememy useful component of the game - Shia / Sunni, Deobandi / Barelvi, Ahl e Hadith / Barelvi... We will need to add a strong internal security dimension to our calculus as well.

[Paul]

X-post from Pakhtun civil war thread...

Both Persia and India lost significant territories in the past 700+ years. Persia has lost her influence in the caucasus(Georgia, azerbaijan), west afghanistan (Herat, Mazar)and central asia(turkomen areas) to the Russians, Arabs and the Turkics.

The vestieges of their influence can still be felt in far off places like Tajikistan. I think both the ancient civilizations ( blood cousins actually - I had posted a link to a book written by a Parsi on this in non western world view thread) have lost a lot in the past two milleniums.

However as I said in the Great Game thread, it is not in our interests to have the Persians get a foothold in the game as they will compete with us for adjacent territories. We are getting off the ground slowly and have plenty of low hanging fruit ripening to fall in our lap...India's western territories will come back in the coming decades. Once this happens, Balochistan and southern afghanistan should form the outer rings.

I have always held the opinion that Pakistan's push in Afghanistan is actually the Indic civilization claiming it's sphere of influence through it's outcast child. This is why I have expressed concern at the nascent Afghan emirate's eastern borders moving to the indus....(although it doesn't mean we support the pakis against the afghans).

Ramana...I need to read up on Milner as well. Here is the link for Quigley's book: Anglo-American Establishment

[svinayak]

Paul, Caroe used to write his stuff for the Roundtable that lor Milen founded as part of Rhodes leagacy. Quigley mentions the antecedents of Roundtable in his book that Acharya posted.

Which book you are referring to?

[ramana]

The Anglo American Establishment by Caroll Quigley.

[ramana]

Here is post that ties the nuke thread, the great game , the con vote and the testing issue by sroy in another forum

BJP really need to go on with intensive street level campaign with copies of Hyde Act and 123. Please try to gauge the general mood. A slim majority (urban and young...they have influence in media, academia, industry) believes UPA's move is in right direction. Just because MMS has assured them. LKA has lost their confidence.
MMS has skirted a debate doesn't mean others cannot put these texts for public discourse.

MMS might say "we'll maintain minimum credible deterrence" and "there is no constraints on us for further testing". I have perfect reasons to believe him and I'll not be surprised if Americans say so. Only thing is we do not the "minimum" and what is allowed to be tested. "Ashwathama hatha kunjera" indeed.

What if MMS has agreed to limit the Indian arsenal to 12kt-15kt fission devices? And Unkil nodded that we can continue to test similar stuff in future? We become the regional satraps. Chincomms are checked, alliance with West is assured, business continues to flow. Everyone is happy. Fizzled thermonuclear test in 1998 might be a non-issue in such a scenario.

But what if we need to enter CAR of our own to tap resources, against Russian and Chinese opposition (count the Americans in then)? Or if we, after 15-20 years of sustained growth, reach the economic endurance to sustain conventional warfare to wrest back PoK? Or if our relation with the West deteriorates?

We'll need the big bomb then. If not for Anglo-Saxon great game, but at least for our version of the Great Game. Fortunately, they call it 'Akhand Bharat' and they know they need the big bomb precisely for that. Unfortunately they have failed to explain it to a larger constituency. And hence the lost opportunity for LKA.

[Paul]

Biography of Henry Byroade

Henry A. Byroade, soldier and diplomat, was born in Indiana on July 24, 1913. He graduated
from the U.S. Military Academy in 1937 and spent most of World War II in the China-Burma-
India Theater of Operations. After the war he served as attaché to General George Marshall
during Marshall’s negotiations between the Communist and Nationalist Chinese forces.
In 1949 Byroade was assigned to the Department of State as a foreign policy expert. He resigned
from the Army in 1952 when President Truman appointed him Assistant Secretary of State for
Near Eastern, South Asian and African Affairs. In 1955 President Eisenhower appointed him
Ambassador to Egypt, where he served during the Suez Canal crisis of 1956. He later served as
ambassador to the Union of South Africa, Afghanistan, the Philippines and Pakistan.
After retiring from the Department of State in 1977 he worked for two years for a private
company in Saudi Arabia, after which he settled in the Washington, DC, area. He died on
December 31, 1994.

He took over from Caroe and played a key role in crafting the SEATO and CENTO alliances along with Pakistan's pivotal role in it. I wonder what if he met any of the Indian nationalists and his impressions of India.

Added later: Some of those IAF airbases in Assam were probably built by Byroade.

Added later: Quigley's book needs to be read carefully. I read the chapter on India and was stuck by how different it is from the run of the mill books published in India on the same period. I think Indians needs to pay more attention to how the India debate was being played out in London in the era and co-relate them to the actions of the British Indian govt in Delhi.

[svinayak]

Added later: Quigley's book needs to be read carefully. I read the chapter on India and was stuck by how different it is from the run of the mill books published in India on the same period. I think Indians needs to pay more attention to how the India debate was being played out in London in the era and co-relate them to the actions of the British Indian govt in Delhi.

There is more to this. The anglo american rivalry after the WWI led to pressure from US on Great Britain to follow liberal policies in India. It is US which gave publicity to Gandhi from 1920s with the Time Cover story in 1920 and made sure that Britain did not do do harm to Gandhi and Congress party through the Freedom Movement. Milner group created many commissions for Indian Princely states and British India dominion state to engineer a political setup which could be controlled by Great Britain. Congress Party after 1915 was completely under the radar of the British and influenced to toe the line of moderation and accommodation. Jinnah was propped up to make it behave and accept conditions under pressure.
US revulsion to the practice of colonialism by Britian led to many silent games against Britain. Churchill never liked it and was against giving freedom to India prefering to make it a Dominion state for several hundered years.
Britain after WWII made sure Middle East and India was under their control with J Nehru close relationship with the Labour Party of UK. After the war once the US attention was on Europe and the Far East Britain made sure that Gandhi was eliminated.

US got the region of Germany and Japan to reshape according to its Grand strategy for Europe and Asia.

[ShauryaT]

Added later: Quigley's book needs to be read carefully. I read the chapter on India and was stuck by how different it is from the run of the mill books published in India on the same period. I think Indians needs to pay more attention to how the India debate was being played out in London in the era and co-relate them to the actions of the British Indian govt in Delhi.

There is more to this. The anglo american rivalry after the WWI led to pressure from US on Great Britain to follow liberal policies in India. It is US which gave publicity to Gandhi from 1920s with the Time Cover story in 1920 and made sure that Britain did not do do harm to Gandhi and Congress party through the Freedom Movement. Milner group created many commissions for Indian Princely states and British India dominion state to engineer a political setup which could be controlled by Great Britain. Congress Party after 1915 was completely under the radar of the British and influenced to toe the line of moderation and accommodation. Jinnah was propped up to make it behave and accept conditions under pressure.
US revulsion to the practice of colonialism by Britian led to many silent games against Britain. Churchill never liked it and was against giving freedom to India prefering to make it a Dominion state for several hundered years.
Britain after WWII made sure Middle East and India was under their control with J Nehru close relationship with the Labour Party of UK. After the war once the US attention was on Europe and the Far East Britain made sure that Gandhi was eliminated.

US got the region of Germany and Japan to reshape according to its Grand strategy for Europe and Asia.

There is a lot of truth to what Acharya has written. The only thing, I would like to add quickly is the US changed as it got responsibility and leadership after WWII. It largely followed Britain's game plan in the region. For instance, the US supported the idea of a united India, until the INC themselves gave up on it. The US supported India's stance in the UN on the J&K issue, until convinced otherwise by the UK.

[ramana]

Here is a thesis on future of Durand Line

Look at map 7 and infer/ see why POK came about.

Was the Indian segment of ICS totally clueless or just suffering from hubris at the tie of Independence?

[svinayak]

There is a lot of truth to what Acharya has written. The only thing, I would like to add quickly is the US changed as it got responsibility and leadership after WWII. It largely followed Britain's game plan in the region. For instance, the US supported the idea of a united India, until the INC themselves gave up on it. The US supported India's stance in the UN on the J&K issue, until convinced otherwise by the UK.

All the material is available online. US could not keep up with the British dominance in the sub continent with UK knowledge of Indian socio-cultural and political information. UK used to keep its information including political intelligence of the Indian political leaders to itself. US tried to get an toehold inside India with Babasaheb Ambedkar who got educated in U Columbia, NY. Ambedkar and Gandhi made a pact after US influenced Ambedkar.
UK babus were deputed to State Dept to help them formulate their policies on India and Pakistan. Caroe was one of the seniormost of them who probably gave them the Great game vision to keep Afghanistan isolated from India and support Pakistan on Kashmir instead of India. J Nehru probably figured it out and was angry with him.
UK Babus also made sure that gullible US administration officials including SoS Dulles believe that 70% of all the British India Troops in the WWII were Muslim soldiers. This gullibility of the US officials and US public was used by both UK and Pakistan to create a false image of India in US for a long time.

[svinayak]

Here is a thesis on future of Durand Line
Look at map 7 and infer/ see why POK came about.
Was the Indian segment of ICS totally clueless or just suffering from hubris at the tie of Independence?

Even this is important
It shows the year when Russians expansion happens in Central asia and it is being followed by British expansion in India
1805 - Anglo Maratta War
1843 - Sind War
1849 - Anglo Sikh War

[ramana]

And dont forget Napoleon's quest for land route to india. Most British expansion towards the frontier happened after the Napoleonic Wars.

Acharya, recall the long hours on the phone over last 8 years trying to understand the way Indian history was and now it all fits into the puzzle!

[svinayak]

And dont forget Napoleon's quest for land route to india. Most British expansion towards the frontier happened after the Napoleonic Wars.
Acharya, recall the long hours on the phone over last 8 years trying to understand the way Indian history was and now it all fits into the puzzle!

Yes, Napolean in 1801 realized the importance of India after the defeat of French in the 7 years war(1757) and wanted to support Russia in the expansion. He had assembled troops of 1 Million the largest in Europe at that time to go to Eurasia and fight the British.
British kept the Warring tribes of Pustuns in Afghanistan and made is a buffer state between Russia and British India. This is the origin of the Afghanistan quagmire.
There was another reason for all the Europeans to come together by late 1800s. Britain had hit a jackpot with India when it could expand its trade and increase productivity with industrial revolution funded from India. Britain an island country of 60 million became the largest naval force in history and with crown jewel India the richest colony among all the colonial powers.

[ShauryaT]

UK Babus also made sure that gullible US administration officials including SoS Dulles believe that 70% of all the British India Troops in the WWII were Muslim soldiers. This gullibility of the US officials and US public was used by both UK and Pakistan to create a false image of India in US for a long time.

I think Churchill was the direct source of that number. The truth was close to half of it, yet a higher proportion of the all India population, primarily due to the racist policies of the British that largely recruited such troops from the Punjab and United Provinces and other areas of the North.

[ShauryaT]

Acharya, recall the long hours on the phone over last 8 years trying to understand the way Indian history was and now it all fits into the puzzle!

what? and leave poor me to telepathy

One of these days have to visit you guys in hot air country . I come there 3-4 times a year for work, will call on you soon.

[shiv]

After the war once the US attention was on Europe and the Far East Britain made sure that Gandhi was eliminated.

How did the alliance between Britain and the RSS break up, or is it still on? Or was Godse a British agent and his words a cover up.

[svinayak]

Still researching. Archives are not available completely.

[shiv]

Still researching. Archives are not available completely.

Then I believe your statement should have been:

After the war once the US attention was on Europe and the Far East Britain made sure that Gandhi was eliminated. (Still researching. Archives are not available completely)

You have not stated whether you already believe that Britain eliminated Gandhi and your research is aimed solely at proving that, or whether your research is trying to establish whether Britain had any role in Gandhi's assassination.

[Raju]

So is both the Hindu revivalist movement (in its present form & substance) and the Dalit revivalist movement two arms of executing same agenda hatched by same group.

[svinayak]

You have not stated whether you already believe that Britain eliminated Gandhi and your research is aimed solely at proving that, or whether your research is trying to establish whether Britain had any role in Gandhi's assassination.

Britain faced very uncertain period after 1946. With Jinnah declaring Direct action day Britain should have provided the security and should have declared it illegal. Punjab kakkars was foundation for stability in united Punjab in the 1940s. It was disbanded by 1946 which was strategic and this led to violence even before Independence . What we see is the British with their intimate knowledge of the social tension could create instability in the society as and when required. Lot more details need to analyzed. Some historians have done some work but have not taken the strategic look at British action on Indian society.

By pushing Jinnah with demands of sharing the Treasury of Indian govt more tension was created. British govt did not hid its antipathy towards Freedom fighters/terrorists and anarchists after the Quit India movement. Western publicity to Indian leaders was resented by the British. Creation of strife and anarchy during freedom in 1947 has to be blamed on the govt and it was a strategic on the part of British looking at how Pakistan developed.
What we see is that the violence during Freedom was not condemned in the west as when it was done before independence.

[svinayak]

So is both the Hindu revivalist movement (in its present form & substance) and the Dalit revivalist movement two arms of executing same agenda hatched by same group.

There is no direct indication for this before and after independence. But after 1970s there has been lot of effort on Dalit movement using all means.

[ShauryaT]

By pushing Jinnah with demands of sharing the Treasury of Indian govt more tension was created. British govt did not hid its antipathy towards Freedom fighters/terrorists and anarchists after the Quit India movement. Western publicity to Indian leaders was resented by the British. Creation of strife and anarchy during freedom in 1947 has to be blamed on the govt and it was a strategic on the part of British looking at how Pakistan developed.
What we see is that the violence during Freedom was not condemned in the west as when it was done before independence.

Very accurate observations. The tragedy of it all is MOST Indian leaders did not see through the whole game and if they did it in parts, played poorly and lost. Gandhi, Nehru and even Patel thought of Mountbatten as a partner, adviser and sounding board. I am eagerly awaiting the day when his papers are not classified. No doubt there were some benefits, some say, in the British hand helping Patel consolidate the princely states but if one thinks through the issues, there were not more than 6 of these that really mattered and the rest would have folded in anyways, with the right leadership.

The British had made up their minds at least since 1940, to divide the country or use the communal strife to continue its hold.

[ramana]

Centuries of outsiders rule has reduced the rajyadhikara thinking in most of India except in pockets of South India like Mysore and Travancore.

[pushkar.bhat]

I just put together a quick consolidation of some of my thoughts on the Great Game on my blog.. Trust you find it interesting.

[svinayak]

Acharya, recall the long hours on the phone over last 8 years trying to understand the way Indian history was and now it all fits into the puzzle!

what? and leave poor me to telepathy
One of these days have to visit you guys in hot air country . I come there 3-4 times a year for work, will call on you soon.

You are always welcome in our lair. You seem to have a good handle on this history. Can you also answer some of the questions from Shiv like the one below.

How did the alliance between Britain and the RSS break up, or is it still on? Or was Godse a British agent and his words a cover up.

[ramana]

I got the Brobst book on Caroe. Very good value from uty of Akron press.

[Y I Patel]

Thanks for pointing me here from the Pashtun theard, Ramana. There's a lot of material to go through, so it will be a while before I respond.

[ShauryaT]

Acharya - You are asking me to face the third eye of Shiva. No problems, He is a benovelent soul. Give me some time. I will not have net access for the next 8 days.

[R Vaidya]

invading China during the Olypmics

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1180369


rvaidya

[svinayak]

Waziristan

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8512 ... an2lx9.jpg

[svinayak]

Need to understand this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlieffen_Plan
British response was to this war plan and sowed the seeds to reduction in British power.


World War I
Germany's Strategies and Goals

A.) Military Strategies

The German OBERSTE HEERESLEITUNG (OHL, Army High Command) had anticipated a war in which Germany and Austria would face France and Russia; this constellation had been obvious ever since the German-Russian Treaty of mutual aid was not prolonged in 1891. The OHL was concerned about Russia's rapidly growing population, which also meant a strengthening of it's army. It was expected that by 1916 the Russian army would gain a dangerous numerical superiority. France had established a tight chain of strong fortifications along it's border to Germany.
General ALFRED GRAF VON SCHLIEFFEN (chief of staff 1891-1905; he died in 1913) authored a plan, according to which the German army, bypassing the French lines by marching either through Belgian or Swiss territory, would achieve a quick military victory in the West and then turn it's attention on the east - the SCHLIEFFEN PLAN. In order to achieve victory in the west, two thirds of Germany's forces were to be stationed along the western front, while one third should hold back the invading Russian forces as long as possible, until reinforced by the forces from the west.
The German side hoped that Britain and the USA stayed out of the conflict; Italy was regarded Germany's ally, Europe's minor states were given little attention in these plans.


B.) Political Goals

At the beginning of the war, Germany's political goals were ill-defined. The war was fought because the enemy was there and it was regarded opportune to do it now rather than later.
During the war, which demanded a high price both in effort and suffering, demands were defined in case of a German victory : FLANDERS, the Flemish speaking part of Belgium, and COURLAND (with it's dominating German minority) were to be annexed, as was the mineral-rich region around LONGWY in French Lorraine (iron ore). Germany also expected colonial gains in the Congo basin region. Plans were to establish an economic zone in central and eastern Europe dominated by Germany. Russia was to be weakened by granting independence to Finland, Russian Poland, Ukraine etc., which were to become German satellites.

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/asia/haxsasia.html

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/warindex.html

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/india ... india.html

[Airavat]

Caroe served as Foreign Secretary to Britain's Government of India throughout the Second World War and afterwards became Britain's last Governor of India's North-West Frontier Province. Where historians conventionally stress money, markets, and manpower, Caroe's thought helps to elucidate a geopolitical interpretation of British imperialism that emphasizes the intrinsic importance of Indian space in relation to power based in Central Asia. It suggests the lasting utility of the Great Game as a frame reference for both the Cold War and a much anticipated Pacific Century.

Brobst, Peter John, The official mind of the Great Game: Sir Olaf Caroe.

[Paul]

The truth about Jammu and Kashmir, Does Pakistan have a Locus Standi -II
August 31, 2000

By Lieutenant Colonel Thakur Kuldip S Ludra (Retd.)

The British complicity was obvious. The following additional circumstantial evidence leads to the justification about the accusation being made:-

There is some justification in the Pakistani accusation that the British had planned the entire affair when as a result of the Partition they gave Gurdaspur District, a Muslim majority district to India. (However, it must also be realised that the so-called Muslims were mainly Ahemdiyas, whom Pakistan subsequently declared as non-Muslims.) This gave India an access to the State of Jammu and Kashmir. Had this district gone to Pakistan and Lahore to India as was justified at that time, as a result of the population, India would have never been able to sustain her operations in Jammu and Kashmir.
Most of the senior officer cadre, both in the Indian and Pakistan Armies was British. It was obvious that the entire operation was planned by the British. For them to say that they were not in the know of the whole affair is a blatant lie. Especially as it was a British Officer who led the coup in Gilgit, by the Gilgit Scouts giving the entire Northern area of Gilgit (Agency and Wazarat) as well as Baltistan, including Nagar and Hunza, to Pakistan. This was also known to the British Commander-in-Chief of the State Forces, General Scott, as early as June 1947, when he had accompanied Brigadier Ghansara Singh to take over the Gilgit Agency from the British.
Major General O S Kalkat, then a major, had over heard Pakistan Army Officers talking about the planned invasion. He managed to leave his brigade, where he was a Brigade Major, with a British Commander, and managed to reach India, in spite of being placed under house arrest. He reported the matter to all the senior officers, as well as the political leadership, right up to the Prime Minister. No body believed him. Or more correctly his information was ignored. To the extent that there was no contingency plan even. It was obvious that the Indian leadership, guided by Nehru, believed Mountbatten, rather than its own officer cadre.
To quote from Bleoria's book, "It is reasonable to believe that at least the C-in-C of Indian Army, Rob Lockhart, and Field Marshal Auchinleck, the Supreme Commander, were kept informed of the invasion plans by General Messervy, who was in constant touch with both of them.
In spite of the fact that all the depots were in India, and Pakistan had got only one third of he strength of the old Indian Army and hardly any Air Force, British Officers of the Indian Army, kept on talking about the Pakistani threat to Indian Punjab and denied the Indian Commanders, in the field, any additional reinforcements. Even after the culmination of the Hyderabad Operations, in September 1948, additional troops were not made available.
The Indian Air Force was never allowed to take part in the tactical operations. In fact, it appears to have been an unwritten agreement between the Indian and Pakistani Commander-in-Chiefs that India will not use her Airforce. In this connection according to Bleoria,to quote from de-classified records from the India Office, London, reports, "Only a day earlier the British High Commissioner to Pakistan had asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations in London to work for a renewed assurance from the British Air Chief in India that, 'Gentleman's Agreement' will be enforced regarding the use of the air force.
The Operation code named 'Operation Gulmarg' had the orders personally signed by the British C-in-C, Pakistan Army.
Even while Pakistan was supporting these operations, the British Officers were sending Pakistan, ammunition from India, by the train loads.
It appeared that the two C-in-Cs had decided that the Indian Forces were not to be allowed to go beyond the line Naushera-Poonch-Tithwal and thereafter along the line of Krishan Ganga. The moment the Indian Forces showed any inclination to do that, there were impediments on their advance. Right at the beginning as General, then Brigadier, 'Bogey' Sen's 161 Brigade had reached Uri, he was ordered, by the Army Headquarters to stop his advance and change the direction of his advance towards Poonch. Thereby, breaking the momentum of his advance, just when both Kohala and Muzaffarabad were in his reach. Similarly, when General, then Brigadier Harbaksh had reached Tithwal in his brilliant outflanking movement, towards Muzaffarabad, from the North-east, he was denied the extra battalions so essential to maintain the momentum of his attack. Again, in June/July 1948 when Gurez was cleared, General Thimmaya was denied extra forces to help raise the siege of Skardu. In fact he was ordered to withdraw the two battalions, he had used for the clearing of Gurez. Surprisingly, it was the Army Headquarters who were deciding the conduct of operations instead of the local field commanders. To detriment of the Indian interests.
It was a known fact that the two Cs-in-C talked every day about the development of operations. Every time the Indians planned a big offensive, beyond the above line of Naushera-Poonch-Uri-Tithwal, either additional troops were denied or when the offensive was with resources from within those already available to the local commander, the Pakistani Forces seemed to know the exact plans and were in position to thwart the Indian operations. Eventually, General Cariappa, the then General Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Western Command stopped informing the Army Headquarters of his planned operations and achieved surprise every time. For this he was warned by the British Commander-in Chief.
The sequence of events that preceded the Tribal invasion of Jammu and Kashmir, showed remarkable military acumen, in that the so called armed uprisings of the Muslims were so spread out that the much vaunted Jammu and Kashmir Forces had to be split in small penny packets, spread all over the borders of that State with Pakistan, since all these incidents were along the frontiers. Thus split, they were mopped up in detail by the invading Tribals. Since the actual conduct of the operations at tactical level lacked this acumen, the suspicions arise that the agency planning the entire operation at the strategic level was completely different, definitely the British, than that involved at the tactical level.
It was unfortunate for India that the interests of Sheikh Abdullah coincided with those of the British. For him Neither the Northern Areas, nor Muzzaffarabad, or Mirpur and Kotli were of any importance, In fact they would have been a positive hinderence to his plans. Being a Sunni he would not have been able to establish any rapport with the residents of the Northern Areas who were Shias. Nor would have been able to get the people of the region now with Pakistan to support him being essentially from the same stock as the Punjabis. As a Kashmiri he would have had no control over them. Thus with his interests coinciding with the British the two were able to influence Nehru very easily.

http://www.geocities.com/aboutindia2000 ... le/jk2.htm

[Paul]

THE TRUTH ? OR BRITISH DUPLICITY ABOUT KASMIR MILITARY OPERATIONS


IDU Presentation On Infantry Day IDU Update (October 2007)

Lt Col Sam Sharma has sent us some facts of the Kashmir Incursion By Pakistan in 1947 which has kept Indian Infantry engaged 24X7 since. The veracity needs to be confirmed and publicised. Indeed one had heard that Pandit Nehru was told of some duplicity of the British Generals as Mountbatten did say, "Kashmir has more Muslims and Hari Singh should have opted for Pakistan". This has been quoted and all Nehru( who loved Edwina) did, was tell the Indian Army 'then keep the British Officers out of the Kashmir operations" and Gen Thimayya conducted the operations and Gen Cariappa took over Western Command from Gen Russel. I append extract from Chapter on Wars and India's flawed Politico Military Structure from book Indians Why We Are What We Are( Manas 1997).

QUOTE
Lord Mountbatten wanted Kashmir to join Pakistan realising that the population was 85% Muslim, but he deferred to the wishes of Hari Singh the Hindu ruler.Mountbatten labeled the Maharaja a fool in private,a sentiment that the British officers were aware of. In fact Mountbatten had insisted the Andaman and Nicobar Islands be part of India, going against the recommendation of Whitehall, which wanted one Island go to Pakistan, as a staging post between East and West Pakistan.

Mountbatten had assumed Kashmir would go to Pakistan some day but Pakistan in its anxiety violated the status quo and in October of 1948 abetted by their British C-in-C, Gen Meservy, organised tribal raids into various parts of Jammu and Kashmir. By 24 October a full scale offensive in the valley of J&K was launched by Pakistan, under the guise of a tribal uprising. Hari Singh looked to India for help, which was provided only on 26 Oct 47 when J&K acceded to India formally by signing the Instrument of Accession. Appeals from India to Pakistan to stop the offensive were ignored and so began India's first India Pakistan War. Interestingly British officers were in charge of Armies, Navies and Air Forces on both sides. They were aware of Lord Mountbatten's views and his sympathies towards Pakistan on this issue. The CinCs of India Gens Lockhart till 27 Nov 47 and Roy Boucher thereafter left matters to Gen Russel of the Western Command in Shimla who was directly incharge of the operations to quell the offensive.

The British Officers on the Indian side termed mercenaries were not permitted to enter the fighting zone by an edict from Britain but they still advised on the Operations. No restriction was placed on British Officers in Pakistan. The British Officers in India played truant. Their sympathies were with Pakistan.= It has now come to light that then a Major OS Kalkat, in North West Frontier saw a plan for this operation code named Gulmarg addressed to Brigadier CP Murry by the C-in-C Pakistan General Meservy. When Maj OS Kalkat (later Maj Gen) escaped to Delhi in October 47 he had revealed this information to his superiors but it was withheld from the PM Pt Nehru and the Defence Minister Baldev Singh, by the British Staff Officers.

The Indian Army went in to action by air transport in Dakotas spearheaded by 300 men of 1 Sikh under Lt Col Rai on 27 Oct,a day after the Ruler signed the Instrument of accession to India. Srinagar airfield was secured and battle to oust the raiders who were in the valley was commenced. In defending Baramulla Lt Col Rai died and was awarded the Maha Vir Chakra equivalent of MVC posthumously. Another Major Som Nath Sharma (whose brother rose to become Chief of Army Staff after Gen K Sundarji) led his company of 4 Kumaon.He died defending Srinagar against some 700 tribesmen disguised as Kashmiris. It is propitious that the Indian Army went in before Srinagar fell. A day or two later it would have been futile or disastrous. A few days Maj Gen (later Lt Gen) Kalwant Singh had arrived to take Command of the valley. Brigadier and (later Lt Gen) LP Sen arrived with 161 Inf Bde and soon the tide turned in favour of the Indian Army. However progress was slow due to extraneous factors, not military.

In treacherous actions by the British, the plans of the Indian side were leaked to the British on the Pak side. After all they were blood brothers and colleagues in arms. A British officer Maj Brown learning of state forces weaknesses at Gilgit and South Kardu over ran these two vitally strategic posts, now in Pak held Kashmir. On 20 Jan 48 Lt Gen KM Cariappa took over as Western Command Army Cdr from Gen Russell. His leadership was timely and is legendary.

He learnt that General Roy Boucher CinC Indian Army who was well known to the newly appointed CinC Pak Army SirDouglas Gracey regularly spoke to his Pak counterpart and leaked plans made by Cariappa. It was outrageous. Pleas to the Defence Minister and Pandit Nehru to pull up the British General were of no avail and Nehru permitted Cariappa and his team to keep the Ops Orders out of reach of their British CinC. By early 48 Maj Gen KS Thimayya, DSO another distinguished field commander and an ex Burma campaign vetran arrived with newly formed 19th Division. His Division was given orders to plan for a summer offensive as soon as the snows began to melt. Maj Gen Yadunath Singh whose, distinguished son Admiral, Madhavendra Singh (a shipmate of mine,)was given three Brigades to capture the area of the Thana Mandi.A ding dong battle ensued.

FROM COL SAM SHARMA . Was there British Duplicity? IDU asks. The IAF transport sorties were the largest since World War 11 but never publcised enough. IDU does it.

Rawalpindi, Dominion of Pakistan, 26th October 1947. Being number 2, General Sir Douglas Gracey; one time Commanding Officer (CO) of the 2nd Battalion The 3rd (Queen Alexandra's Own) Gurkha Rifles; got it direct from Jinnah, as General Frank Messervy Commander-in-Chief Pakistani Army was away on home leave. He was being hustled into rushing Pakistani troops into the Indian State of Jammu & Kashmir on 27th October 1947. This was a tall order, indeed; therefore, he picked up the telephone and referred his brief to Field Marshal Auchinlek; the Supreme Commander in the Un-Divided India; who was still trying to divide the British Indian Army. The Supreme Commander was dumb-founded and confounded! Soon after first light on the following day, therefore, the Great Auk air-dashed to Lahore and informed the Governor General of Pakistan; that, as officially J&K had acceded to the Dominion of India on 26th October 1947, it had the full right to fly in Indian troops to the threatened Srinagar airfield. He; however, was constrained to acquiesces to Jinnah's orders only at the pain of having to pull out all British officers from the Pakistani Army. Getting this straight talking to from Auchinlek, Jinnah was quite stumped, completely flabbergasted, furious and hopping mad, but calmed down soon; and in the event had the good sense to climb down and rescind his firman to Gracey then and there. He; nevertheless, gave the word 'go' to the North West tribals, qabbailis, irregulars and Pakistani regulars masquerading as some of them to launch Operation Gulmarg with the aim of seizing Bramullah, Srinagar and the Banihal Pass and investing the the Mirpur district.

New Delhi,Dominion of India, 26th October 1947. Brigadier (later Lieutenant General) Kalwant Singh; formerly of the 16 Punjabis; the then Acting Chief of General Staff; did not loose a minute; despite General Boucher being away and not in his chair of the Commander-in-Chief India at the Army Head Quarters. He 'flashed' an OP(eration)IMMEDIATE signal giving out an op instruction to Lt Col D S Rai; CO 1 Sikh Regiment in Gurgaon to flyin to the besieged Srinagar airfield in Phase 1 of Op JAK on 27th October 1947. Phase 11 was the move of a Brigade Group to Jammu.

Technical Area, Palam Air Field/ Safdarjung Air Port, 27th October 1947. Flights A,B,C,D take off between 0500 hours and 1300 hours for Srinagar. In the flight manifest of these civil and Royal Indian Air Force air craft, were listed the Tactical Head Quarters of 1 Sikh; Able Company, 1 Sikh; and one composite company of Royal Indian Artillery.

Srinagar Air Field, 27th October 1947. Six Dakotas of Flight A touch down between 0830 and 1000 hours at the Srinagar airfield amidst effective fire from Pakistani raiders. Col Rai thinks on his feet and after making a quick mental appreciation of the deteriorating tactical situation decides to rush his 'A' Company to go forward and reinforce the two platoons of State Forces barely holding out against the marauding hordes 5 kilometers East of Baramullah.. This is accomplished by1200 hours. The enemy; however, presses on with guile and cunning and by 1500 hours the ransacking of Baramullah is in full swing, the women raped enmasse and the town put to the torch. AHQ gets the sit(uation)rep(ort) signal around the same time. Col Rai asks for the balance of his paltan to be flown in post haste, else his position would be by passed by the raiders as soon as they found time after their plundering of the town.

[SSridhar]

There was earlier a question here about V.P.. Menon's early days in the Government. Here is some information.

He probably joined as a Typist (something that South Indians were good at, including Shorthand), rose to be an Assistsnt in the Home Department, then promoted as Superintendent of the Reforms Section created for the Muddiman Reforms Inquiry Committee in 1923 and finally became the Reforms Commissioner.

[SSridhar]

About Olaf Caroe's 'contribution', Durga Das in his book, "India from Curzon to Nehru" says that he was the one who instigated the riots in NWFP. As soon as Nehru became PM in the Constituent Assembly, he ordered shelling of tribal areas thereby creating a bad impression about Nehru. The British Political Agents in the various agencies started telling the tribesmen that these were the fruits of the Hindu Raj. When Nehru visited NWFP, there was hatred for him. His car was attacked, black-flags were waved at him and snipers fired bullets at his car. Jinnah immediately seized the opportunity to demand fresh elections in NWFP. Thus was hatched the conspiracy by Jinnah and Caroe to dislodge the Congress ministry in NWFP. Thus the British ensured that NWFP will be kept out of India, it will join Pakistan instead and also an independent Pakhtoonistan will not be demanded.

[Airavat]

There is some justification in the Pakistani accusation that the British had planned the entire affair when as a result of the Partition they gave Gurdaspur District, a Muslim majority district to India. (However, it must also be realised that the so-called Muslims were mainly Ahemdiyas, whom Pakistan subsequently declared as non-Muslims.) This gave India an access to the State of Jammu and Kashmir

One of the myths propunded by Pakistan and accepted by some gullible and ignorant Indians. The partition plan of Viceroy Wavell (6 February 1946) states this:

In the Punjab the only Moslem-majority district that would not go into Pakistan under this demarcation is Gurdaspur (51% Moslem). Gurdaspur must go with Amritsar for geographical reasons, and Amritsar being sacred city of Sikhs must stay out of Pakistan.

If Gurdaspur had been placed in Pakistan, Amritsar would have been cut-off from Indian Punjab, since the territory of the princely state of Kapurthala blocked access to Amritsar district from the south-east. And in 1946 the British had not made their policy on princely states clear.

[vishwakarmaa]

The truth about Jammu and Kashmir, Does Pakistan have a Locus Standi -II
August 31, 2000
By Lieutenant Colonel Thakur Kuldip S Ludra (Retd.)

It was unfortunate for India that the interests of Sheikh Abdullah coincided with those of the British. For him Neither the Northern Areas, nor Muzzaffarabad, or Mirpur and Kotli were of any importance, In fact they would have been a positive hinderence to his plans. Being a Sunni he would not have been able to establish any rapport with the residents of the Northern Areas who were Shias. Nor would have been able to get the people of the region now with Pakistan to support him being essentially from the same stock as the Punjabis. As a Kashmiri he would have had no control over them. Thus with his interests coinciding with the British the two were able to influence Nehru very easily.

http://www.geocities.com/aboutindia2000 ... le/jk2.htm

This situation is still the same as it is today. Replace the british with today's western powers and replace the Sheikh Abdullah with today's Kashmir politicians. And replace Nehru with MMS.

As Airavat pointed in other thread, Kashmir politicians appose POK accession to India for exactly same reason - POK population is non-kashmiri, not good for them. 60 years have passed but things are so same. So strange that noone from our side is calling the bluff.

[SSridhar]

A popular misunderstanding of the Radcliffe Boundary Award was that the only parameter on which a border tehsil (the smallest unit of division considered) would go either to India or Pakistan was whether it had Muslim majority or not. The Radcliffe Commission was asked to consider other parameters as well such as location of religious shrines, economic viability, access and connectivity etc.