Blasts in Ahmedabad

[KLNMurthy]

All this talk of terrorists targeting BJP states is irrelevant and intellectual delusion. If tomorrow a few blasts happen in some non-BJP states all these theories will fall apart. What theories would people conjure had these explosions taken place in non-BJP states?

Whether the states being targeted are ruled by this or that party is a minor techincality in the grand scheme of things.

The bigger picture is that Indian citizens are being killed with impunity and there's nothing the government(s) can do to:

1. punish the terrorists post explosions, and
2. act pre-emptively to neutralize and eliminate terrorist and the socio-economic biosphere that nurtures them.

Shivani, with respect, theorizing is not just an intellectual delusion. It is the tool we have to find a rational solution based on limited data. Nor is it somehow a shameful defeat if we find data that is inconsistent with the theory and are therefore obliged to reconsider the theory. That is how we learn, that is how we will win ultimately, by placing the intellectual tools at our disposal in the service of the country we all love.\

It is of course not true that there is nothing the government can do in a general sense. What is true is that our level of confidence is low that the present governing culture has the capability or the will to do something. I think, all emotions aside, the most benign interpretation of government inaction is that they are mostly focusing on long-term visions in which we are a prosperous nation allied with, and playing a strong role in, the great democracies of the world. They might be counting, with some justification, on the massive inertia and resilience of India to keep things going till we become too strong for anyone to destroy. I happen to think that this approach is a mistake, and fails to take into account how history operates. We are vastly more vulnerable than our current complacency indicates, though probably not as vulnerable as our enemies and adversaries think we are.

[Raju]

Terror outfit says we did it, promises to target Mukesh Ambani, politicians

India’s richest man, Mukesh Ambani, is on top of the hit list of the terrorist outfit.

“We also alert Mukesh Ambani to think twice before usurping and building a citadel on a land in Mumbai that belongs to the Waqf Board, lest it turns into horrifying memories for you which you will never ever forget,” Indian Mujahideen warned.

Mukesh Ambani and his Reliance Industries Ltd have big stakes in Gujarat.

the warning to Mukesh under guise of WAKF board is a clear pointer to the actual suspects. It is also worth noting in very important means if this new group of 'Indian Mujahideen' and 'Guru al-hindi' began its work after Congress contacted SP on support after CPI(M) almost indicated that it was on it's way out.

Also to note would be specific intelligence on who all Amar Singh met while spending time in US and what assurances he received regarding his and his parties future.

Narender Modi should immidiately enquire into Samajwadi Party's antecedents and send out a team to UP who should work under cover in order to zero-in on the real suspects. Since he is out of this SP equation and he can't even get visa to US, unlike Amar Singh who is of unimpeachable moral character and gets visas immidiately, he is the ideal person to carry out real investigations.

SIMI and HuJI even if mercenary organizations, doing others bidding, could reserve special venom for Gujarat.

[pradeepe]

One possibility is that we might be looking at a kind of {SIMI-HUJI-LeT} and naxalite technical collaboration. An alliance of islamist extremists and naxalites has been in the offing for some time now.

If SIMI-HUJI-LeT combine (they already reinforce each other in many way, so no qualms about calling them as a single force) and the naxals are coming together, then the one area which would be found wanting for more refinement is the co-ordination. Not technicalities of bum making and definitely not resources. What we have seen from this blast makes me think that this has not happened yet.

Btw, this is even as I believe that the coming together is going to happen. The maoists of late have taken over large swathes of the tribal belts in central India and have been going from strength to strength. And they dont lack firepower.

[KLNMurthy]

Banning people totally isn't such a good idea for BRF. Purpose is to "show the light" to person so he gets the logic behind line of BRF thought and make them understand how it is better for country. Banning will only make him leave BRF and not return. Thats what our one of motive is, to reach out to maximum people and assimilate them in thought process.

There should be some other alternative, like 5-day posting ban or such.

I am inclined to agree with vishwakarmaa. In the past, I was unhappy at the free-and-easy bigotry that kept cropping up on BRF, and I am now very pleased that there are strong mature voices that are speaking up against such behavior. I would hope that this forum would be a force to educate people that Bharat Raksha is inseparable from defending the ideals and culture that makes India dear to all Indians.

[Sanjay M]

Why would an Islamic outfit want do that? What takleef did he give?

he is on the hitlist of SP via Anil.

Mulayam Singh Yadav and Amar Singh should be arrested immidiately on suspiscion of being behind these blasts. Question is can the UPA govt even touch them now ?

I can see Mulayam and Amar being involved in terrorism in general, particularly in connection with Pak-supported groups. But why would they pick on Gujarat in particular, and right now?
After all, any prospective communal polarization would have only strengthened the hand of rival BJP. Are you saying that SP wanted to strengthen BJP in order weaken the hand of Congress and thus make it more dependent upon SP support?

[KLNMurthy]

I hope there is a way to break out of this vicious cycle

1) Some Muslim bad apples set of bums.
2) Police hunt down and arrest these muslims.
3) Muslims think that the arrested muslims (and muslim community) are being unfairly targeted.
4) Perceived unfair targeting of muslims spawns muslim bad apples.
5) Muslim bad apples repeat 1).

Yes, there is a way out - "Stop feeling guilty for arresting a muslim"

We are secular. Arresting a muslim or non-muslim is same.

It's not so simple as I am sure we all know. We have a very narcissistic culture. If a policeman stops someone in India for a traffic violation or disturbing the peace, often that person will try to use whatever connections or influence he may have, to avoid the consequences of his own misdeed; furthermore, there is very little appreciation for the fact that the policeman is doing his duty of protecting the public, and a lot of indignation that "I" am being targeted here. Yes, I know the same mentality prevails everywhere, however the difference in India is that enough people successfully manage to avoid taking responsibility for their bad citizenship and even anti-social conduct, to the point that the person who meekly submits to authority will suffer a significant loss of social credibility (commonly abbreviated as loss of face) and is branded as a person that is easily trod on.

In an environment like that, we can't blame someone if they parlay their minority political status and relatively high degree of social cohesion to gain enough political clout so that their narcissistic urges (shared by the entire population) can be better fulfilled. They have just found a way to do better at the game everyone is playing. It is pefectly normal and expected behavior for them to resist fiercely any submission to police interrogation etc. that would result in a 'loss of face.'

This is a tough problem. The long term solution is to start talking about it and wean society away from a narcissism that ends up exposing them to unpunshed bomb attacks. In the short term, there are actually smart and tactful ways to overcome the concerns about loss of face, but they require an understanding of the undeerlying issue and a certain amount of creative thinking.

[Sanjay M]

What you're acknowledging is that democratic and civil freedoms require a society where the overall EQ is above a certain level. If it's below that level, then the society will be a chaotic maelstrom, with no effective law and order.

A fellow from the 7th Century also seemed to realize this, and he then consequently came up with a solution involving restriction of freedoms. Now the rest of us have to suffer for it.

[Raju]

he is on the hitlist of SP via Anil.

Mulayam Singh Yadav and Amar Singh should be arrested immidiately on suspiscion of being behind these blasts. Question is can the UPA govt even touch them now ?

I can see Mulayam and Amar being involved in terrorism in general, particularly in connection with Pak-supported groups. But why would they pick on Gujarat in particular, and right now?
After all, any prospective communal polarization would have only strengthened the hand of rival BJP. Are you saying that SP wanted to strengthen BJP in order weaken the hand of Congress and thus make it more dependent upon SP support?

Gujarat is where Mukesh bhai's largest Petrochemical based industries at Jamnagar is located.

Anil bhai is having major spat with Mukesh bhai right now after MTN deal flopped.

Amar Singh's list of demands to UPA included removal of pro-Mukesh bhai ministers like Chid and Deora. And telecom spectrum reallocation.

BJP MPs are now threatening Amar Singh/MSY & SP with exposure on trust vote scam. But the video evidence regarding this has yet to be aired.

Gujarat is BJP's lion Narendra Modi's den.

Mani Nagar is the lion's constituency.

So message is to BJP high command that even their Lion won't be spared and they better be cautious before releasing evidence.

[Sanjay M]

Yes, the shifting sands of our politics are no better than strife-torn Afghanistan. This is why the frustrated Taliban brought in outside help (AlQaeda) to overcome the deadlock. I've always felt that we NRIs could similarly come in to overcome these feuding antics, promoting a pan-Indianism. Unfortunately, we have no Algerian suicide wing...

(not yet anyway, but give it time...)

[RayC]

Sanjay M,

I don’t think I have anywhere suggested that Modi is at fault or is not at fault. Therefore, your ire is misplaced as far as my post is concerned. Politics has overtaken the event and facts, and it has been shrouded and made murky by political one-upmanship, which is the badge of Indian politics! If you had read my posts carefully, you would have realised that I have lamented over the space occupied by bleeding hearts of the likes of Setelevad or whatever her name is.

My concern is of the stability of India and not its politics!

I also am concerned that India should not be in the international doghouse for hotheaded actions, when it can be achieved within international norms where using a heavy hand is also in vogue.

I am no votary of what is popularly known as ‘appeasement’. We are all Indians and I sincerely believe we must find our place in the sun without undue advantages that disadvantage others.

As far as the US is concerned, you are entitled to your views. If indeed what you say is right and they are getting away with it, it does speak volumes of their hold over the world. Bush maybe out of sync, but the US rolls along merrily inspite of this political asymmetry and both the sides of the Indian political power tussle seem to be kowtowing to the US. If the world and India too are ready to play the second fiddle, the US would be daft not to take advantage of such a wonderful situation.

I thought the BJP was the toast of the US and not vilified by European opinion shapers. Have I missed something? I thought the BJP was the one who initiated the ‘strategic commonality’ euphoria and the Congress followed suit because they had nothing better to offer.

I still maintain that one cannot be an international pariah if one wants to coexist in a global matrix.

I don't support riots as they are wanton and unproductive, but even in my not supporting these, I will not allow the predatory opportunist Leftists to scapegoat nationalists because of riots. We all know that the Leftists have engineered many a riot themselves. Their selective outrage over riots doesn't impress me at all.

I am afraid nationalism is an issue that has many interpretations. It depends on the understanding of the word.

I am no admirer of the Left having suffered them for over 30 years. But I do respect them for one thing, and that is, discipline! Faulty that their doctrines are, yet they are steadfast in following them and it required courage for a wet behind the ears Communist, Karat, to muster the Politburo and throw out veteran Somnath Chatterjee. Like it or not, none could buy them out either in the Trust vote unlike the other parties!! I am not blinded by dogma. I am ready to give a dog his due!

It is not for you not to allow Left predators, it is for the country to wipe them out - not by violent means, but the ballot - that is if you have any faith in the democratic system.

And anyway, they have seen their heydays and are practically becoming extinct like the Dodo.

You may like Teesta Setelvad, but I think she is a predatory demagogue.

I fail to understand as to why you feel that I like Setelvad. Does this indicate my liking for her?
And yes, the bleeding hearts should be told to shut up! Especially that Stelvad or whatever is the name of that publicity hound!

May I request you to read what others write and not be consumed with rage and imagined views of what others have written?

It is not enough to outsource/offload civic responsibility to agencies. Civic responsibility, including national defense, is the responsibility of us all. When we delegate that responsibility to someone else, so that you and I can then sink back into our self-absorbed complacency, then we are sewing the seeds for our own demise

One has to understand how a govt functions and that too in a democracy. Each arm of the govt has its responsibility and the people elect a govt that looks after the citizens' interest and does it through the various arms and instruments of the govt infrastructure. I fail to understand how a citizen individually can ensure that all the departments of the govt functions.

I can hardly be accused of sinking into self absorbed complacency since I have done my share of terrorist ridding and more.

The Internet and cyber space has not been my vehicle of terrorist ridding! Sadly, they manifest and proliferate like maggots and it is a long haul - this verity I have realised.

I commend your nationalism, but, as I see it, it must be tempered with reason and calm.

I leave the field open for you and will not indulge in this any more.

[Sanjay M]

Raju,

What you've pointed out in regards to Mulayam & Amar then provides me with yet further reasons to recommend the breakup of Uttar Pradesh.

Between the Mayawati problem, and the Mulayam/Amar/SP problem, then Uttar Pradesh is only becoming a dangerous political drain on the nation.

It's better for Congress and BJP to make a short-term collaboration of convenience, to break up Uttar Pradesh.
There is no benefit in allowing this artificial patchwork state to continue. This cesspool needs to be broken up and disinfected. Otherwise, then it will only become an increasingly toxic tumour upon the nation.

[SRoy]

exactly ! but even there the case has not taken to its rightful conclusion.

My point exactly. None of these things get taken to their rightful conclusion, thus nullifying the efforts. You're only supporting my argument.

Gents,

Do you recognize that the problem we are dealing with is not a mere law and order problem?

Rahul,

Afzal's case is good commentary on our ability to resolve to deal with terrorism, simply speaking; the majority of the political block (ably supported by a media that has its own agenda) won't see such cases to the end.

Sanjay,

Read between the lines, can't you recognize sarcasm?

[RayC]

News on India TV has it that live bombs have been found in Surat.

[Rishi]

http://www.rediff.com/cms/print.jsp?doc ... 7raman.htm

B.Raman mirrors what Rangudu said. Its IMs who have been trained and let loose to do what they want.

On the basis of reports received last year, I had assessed on January 30 that while continuing to give financial, training and arms assistance to the Lashkar-e-Tayiba, the Inter-Services Intelligence of Pakistan was encouraging the Lashkar to rely only on Indian Muslims for its operations in Indian territory and not to depute Pakistani Muslims for this purpose.

It was evident that the ISI had also started following a similar policy in respect of the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami by encouraging it to set up a separate organisation for India consisting of recruits from the Indian Muslim community with no involvement of Pakistani Muslims. The HUJI headquarters are located in Pakistan. It has an active branch in Bangladesh, consisting only of Bangladeshi nationals of the Afghan war (1980s and 1990s) vintage, which is referred to by US counter-terrorism experts as the HUJI-B. Members of the HUJI-B were coming to India for organising terrorist strikes with the co-operation of recruits from the Indian Muslim community.

I had further assessed that a HUJI set-up in India consisting of recruits from the Indian Muslim community has now come up which could be projected in future as a purely Indian organisation with no Pakistani or Bangladeshi involvement.

I had further assessed as follows: 'It is only a question of time before the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, the Jaish-e-Mohammed, the anti-Shia Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Al Qaeda itself set up their own outfits or sleeper cells in India consisting only of Indian Muslims so that these too could be projected as indigenous Muslim organisations of India and not as Pakistani or Arab organisations. The pan-Islamic jihad in India to support Al Qaeda's pan-Islamic objectives is sought to be given an Indian facade with the encouragement of the ISI.'

The blasts in Bengaluru and Ahmedabad mark a further step in the ISI-sponsored Indianisation of jihad. The Indianised jihad is presently targeted against the BJP, but it could turn against the American and Israeli presence in India in due course.

[Rishi]

Ahmadabad death toll up to 45

[Sumeet]

I kinda agree with SSridhar. If a key economic target can be colored as a "legitimate" response to some kind of grievance of IMs then ISI will be all for it.

Rangudu and SSridhar you guys are right. Since you have mentioned this, I would like to repost an article originally posted by Ramana. It is from Swapan Das Gupta.


http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080711/j ... 534715.jsp

During a visit to Pakistan immediately after the Kargil conflict in 1999, I telephoned Lieutenant-General Hamid Gul, the outspoken former chief of the infamous Inter-Services Intelligence directorate. The good thing about Gul, I had been told by those who knew Pakistan well, was that he was unapologetic about his certitudes: “He doesn’t change his views to suit the audience. He’ll tell you exactly what he will tell a jihadi gathering.”

The Pakistan hands weren’t off the mark: Gul was candid beyond all expectations. To him, the most important lesson of the Kargil misadventure was that India counted in the world because of its economic clout, Pakistan did not. The West was willing to listen to India and even pamper it because of its vibrant economy, particularly the large domestic market; Pakistan had nothing remotely comparable. To prevail over its traditional enemy, Pakistan would have to expend its energies undermining the Indian economy and fragmenting the internal market.


I recounted this conversation at a conference on India and Pakistan in London last month. The Pakistani participants, who included some former ministers, a former foreign secretary and another former head of the ISI, chuckled uncomfortably as if to suggest that outlandish over-statements were only to be expected from Gul. My remarks met with a surely-you-don’t-take-him-seriously response.

Of course, there are reasons to view Gul as a complete maverick. That may well be true up to a point. However, in view of the terror campaign in cities such as Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad and Jaipur, the jihadi indoctrination of educated Muslim youth and the organized printing of counterfeit Indian currency from across the border, Gul, it would seem, had either anticipated Pakistan’s covert war outside Jammu and Kashmir or even helped determine its course.

Gul’s ability to bluntly identify the larger strategic objectives of Islamabad’s India-hating establishment has made him a remarkable intellectual asset to all Pakistan-watchers. This is why it is instructive to look at a remarkable article he published in February in the Urdu newspaper, Nawa-i-Waqt. According to the synopsis of the article, Gul has linked the battle to free Kashmir from Indian occupation to the ongoing jihad by the Taliban in Afghanistan. A victory in Kashmir, he has argued, is inextricably linked to the American defeat in Afghanistan. “I, being a professional soldier,” he stated pompously, “say with full confidence that the US can never win the war against terror in Afghanistan and Iraq. Following a withdrawal from Afghanistan in late-2009, the US will disintegrate like the former USSR and this disintegration will result in the freedom of Kashmir.” Discounting the cocky millenarianism of the professional Islamist, Gul’s desire to create an Afghanistan-Pakistan-Kashmir nexus in the coming years corresponds almost entirely with what is emerging as the ISI’s game-plan for the region.

[Sanjay M]

The good thing about Gul, I had been told by those who knew Pakistan well, was that he was unapologetic about his certitudes: “He doesn’t change his views to suit the audience. He’ll tell you exactly what he will tell a jihadi gathering.”

Yes, Hamid Gul is like Zbigniew Brzezinski in that respect. Both suffer from Tourette's Syndrome, and will bluntly blurt out whatever is on their minds. Apparently discretion isn't the better part of their valour.

No mangoes for his bitter palate.

[Rahul M]

bomb recovered near hospital in surat. police defusing it at the moment. 3 more bombs recovered in ahmedabad.
NDTV correspondent says this can't be done w/o massive local support in terms of logistics, quoting intel agencies. the clincher is the use of gas cylinders in the hospital blast. there are unconfirmed reports of a human bomb in the blasts, probably the hospital ones.

[Anindya]

B.Raman mirrors what Rangudu said. Its IMs who have been trained and let loose to do what they want.

Pakistan's strategy against India, seems to be based on the following three focus points:
- Indianization of Jihad in mainland India - much of the evidence for this has been been outlined by B. Raman

- Pakistanization of J&K politics - where many over-ground political groups, openly promote elements of Pakistani interests; dual currency, dual control over the valley promotions by the PDP, fall into this bucket.

- Bangladesh-ization of the Indian North East - you now have political organizations like AUDF, which openly use Bangladeshi Imams to canvass in Assam's elections

The strategy has been quite visible to our security folks, but as a country we have not had the will to do anything about it...

[Rahul M]

exactly ! but even there the case has not taken to its rightful conclusion.

Rahul,

Afzal's case is good commentary on our ability to resolve to deal with terrorism, simply speaking; the majority of the political block (ably supported by a media that has its own agenda) won't see such cases to the end.

SRoy, afzal's case did showcase the competence of the investigating agencies when they had political backing i.e during NDA regime. the case faltered only during UPA time. and even then, they did manage to get a conviction.
what option do we have other than pushing hard for unhindered functioning of the law and order apparatus ?

[Sumeet]

Till congress and BJP don't come on same side we cannot win against Indian Islamists/Jihadis under any cirumstance. Political unity is extremely important, infact its the STARTING POINT. Congress doesn't cares about IMs, but it definitely wants to be in power in Delhi. So as long as it can benefit from antagonistic feelings IMs have about BJP they will not let that fire die and try to gain their vote.

[ashish raval]

It is very clear from the blast that it is definately work of cells based in Mumbai. All the logistical, communication and professional support. I am sure that there will be something out there which can point to the right direction in investigation. The way that they had planted the bomb is definately an trait learned from outside India and it looks that there was atleast one suicide bomber. There is an urgent need for creating an spy force which is atleast a million strong and present in every nook and corner of country. Why the f*** government do not spend on internal security is a huge question. They should learn atleast something from USA who spends huge amount on Department of Homeland Security and you can see visible presence of them everywhere. The mastermind should be caught and publicly stoned to death or should be forced to wear a suicide belt and blown apart.

[Anindya]

If you see the snippet from the Hindu article on the bomb (posted above) - looks like a bomb design that required a fair amount of training to build and "get right" - not possible without significant organization, funding and potentially training.

BANGALORE: Even as the Bangalore police are trying to ascertain the people behind the serial blasts which rattled the city on Friday, investigation has revealed that embedded chips were used as a timer to trigger all the explosions.

Police on Saturday defused a live improvised explosive device (IED) at Koramangala in the city’s IT corridor and subsequently found that all the IEDs, which exploded on Friday, were planted at least three days in advance.

Bangalore Police Commissioner Shankar M. Bidari told The Hindu that in the other recent explosions in different parts of the country cell phones were used as trigger.

An embedded chip can be programmed like a digital clock and it produces a fuse pulse that triggers the detonation.

“The IEDs had sufficient explosive material which could have caused high intensity blasts. We are trying to find out scientifically what reduced the impact of the explosion,” he said.

[Sumeet]

Ashish Raval,

whats the point of spending crores of rupees, having central agency and all that good sounding stuff when you have people like Shivraj Patil as home minister ?

Analogously its just same as having a dummy pilot in F-22 Raptor armed with AMRAAM-D or Meteor class missile and backed by latest AWACS. What good is that ?

[Sanjay M]

“The IEDs had sufficient explosive material which could have caused high intensity blasts. We are trying to find out scientifically what reduced the impact of the explosion,” he said.

Is it possible that the IEDs were made to deliberately detonate less than their full potential, so as to serve as a warning about what could have happened?

Or is it likelier that the bombers merely bungled?

[SRoy]

Rahul,

Afzal's case is good commentary on our ability to resolve to deal with terrorism, simply speaking; the majority of the political block (ably supported by a media that has its own agenda) won't see such cases to the end.

SRoy, afzal's case did showcase the competence of the investigating agencies when they had political backing i.e during NDA regime. the case faltered only during UPA time. and even then, they did manage to get a conviction.
what option do we have other than pushing hard for unhindered functioning of the law and order apparatus ?

Rahul,

You are getting there slowly. What can be done to ascertain that the law enforcement agencies can work towards national interests irrespective of the type of govt. at the centre?
Second, (repeating my earlier observation) this problem is not a law and order problem. If needed bomb the TSP embassies worldwide, incase we are convinced of a Pakistani hand. Otherwise if it can be proved that indigenous groups are involved, then our goose is cooked, it is a matter of time they reach our middle class homes inside these walled and gated colonies.

[Sanjay M]

How will the Commies be reacting to all of this?
Will they again shriek that this is the work of fascist Hindutva forces, when they are dependent upon the same fascist Hindutva forces to help oppose the Congress? (After all, Mayawati isn't strong enough yet that Commies can solely dote on her support)

[pushkar.bhat]

Fourty Five innocent civilians are reported to have been killed and over 100 injured in 16 serial blasts which struck Ahmedabad on the evening of July 26. This is the third state ruled by the Bharatiya Janata Party to be struck by jihadi terrorists, who have remained unidentified by the police and intelligence agencies so far. Will this be limited to the BJP rules states or will it spread to other states too is a question that needs to be investigated.

I don't know but I have this distinct feeling that this series of blasts is different from the ones that we have seen in the past. The perpetrators are using a far more sophisticated strategy then what we have seen ever before.

This series is also different because for the first time we see hospitals as a target for down stream chain of the blasts.. This has not been seen ever before infact ever in all the terror bombings that took place. The fellas behind this series have the most sinister of the brains among all the terror outfits. I hope the Government of India goes behind them with as much viciousness. In marathi there is a saying "Gadhava cha nanger firavane" which means effectively punishing the folks in such a manner that no one from their family is left to narrate a tale of what happened. I guess its time to do exactly that.

Terror outfits will go slow only if they know that the personal cost of supporting terror is so high that even their downstream family is not left to reap the benefits. The Israelis have shown how its done. We need to do exactly that with the perpetrators of these blasts.

[Sumeet]

Sanjay,

in my opinion commies will show minimum possible resentment compared to what should be shown by an average patriotic Indian. you will see their true colors when BJP/NDA takes recourse to harsh law and action to curb these homegrown Islamists.

will have to wait till then.

[bhargava]

How will the Commies be reacting to all of this?

Sitaram Yechury was in Bengalooru to meet the blast victims. He asked the state government to find out whether the blasts were in retaliation to build-up of communal feelings/parties in the state in recent months. Saw this report in TV-9 channel news.

[Sumeet]

In marathi there is a saying "Gadhava cha nanger firavane" which means effectively punishing the folks in such a manner that no one from their family is left to narrate a tale of what happened. I guess its time to do exactly that.

Terror outfits will go slow only if they know that the personal cost of supporting terror is so high that even their downstream family is not left to reap the benefits. The Israelis have shown how its done. We need to do exactly that with the perpetrators of these blasts.

Pushkar that is something we cannot do to our own people. I fully support doing this to ISI/TSPA and their folk.

[Rahul M]

SRoy, afzal's case did showcase the competence of the investigating agencies when they had political backing i.e during NDA regime. the case faltered only during UPA time. and even then, they did manage to get a conviction.
what option do we have other than pushing hard for unhindered functioning of the law and order apparatus ?

Rahul,

You are getting there slowly.

well, as long as I get there, I have no problems with being slow. although, I don't remember having changed my views anytime in the last 18 hrs.

What can be done to ascertain that the law enforcement agencies can work towards national interests irrespective of the type of govt. at the centre?

not sure if it is possible to create a law enforcement system 100% independent from the govt. of the day. is there a way out by institutional reforms ? I'm not sure.
the only option is to create strong public opinion on the matter that forces the govt. to leave the agencies alone. and take the media on board whenever possible.

Second, (repeating my earlier observation) this problem is not a law and order problem.

there is of course a law and order problem but the roots are somewhere else.

If needed bomb the TSP embassies worldwide, incase we are convinced of a Pakistani hand.

I don't think an indiscriminate bombing campaign against paki embassies would achieve much.

Otherwise if it can be proved that indigenous groups are involved, then our goose is cooked, it is a matter of time they reach our middle class homes inside these walled and gated colonies.

ven if IMs are involved, there is always a section that is not, however silent it may be. our job is to help the moderates find their voice and raise their importance. clamp down on the radicals in every way, legal or illegal. trap them in false cases, tax evasion cases etc and anything else. at the same time create an India specific model for islam and give state support to this one only.
the church of england model, if you will. It won't be easy, but it can be done.

[SRoy]

If needed bomb the TSP embassies worldwide, incase we are convinced of a Pakistani hand.

I don't think an indiscriminate bombing campaign against paki embassies would achieve much.

It will work. The ISI goons and the RAPE class will be hit. Our police and domestic intelligence may have hands tied, RAW need to have. No HR issues involved there.

Otherwise if it can be proved that indigenous groups are involved, then our goose is cooked, it is a matter of time they reach our middle class homes inside these walled and gated colonies.

ven if IMs are involved, there is always a section that is not, however silent it may be. our job is to help the moderates find their voice and raise their importance. clamp down on the radicals in every way, legal or illegal. trap them in false cases, tax evasion cases etc and anything else. at the same time create an India specific model for islam and give state support to this one only.
the church of england model, if you will. It won't be easy, but it can be done.

Certainly you are welcome to try that. But, in free spirit of democracy every other alternative must have equal hearing, otherwise you'll unwittingly encourage centrifugal tendencies in the Union.

Read this Another step in ISI-sponsored Indianisation of jihad

PS: To clear any confusion and yet limit my comment within the mandate of forum, lets not confuse other alternatives with rioting or Gitmo type black holes. There are social instruments available, but they too will work when the definition of the enemy is unaniously accepted and resolve to defeat them is agreed across the board.

[Rahul M]

.......
Certainly you are welcome to try that. But, in free spirit of democracy every other alternative must have equal hearing, otherwise you'll unwittingly encourage centrifugal tendencies in the Union.

I'm not talking of open war against the radicals by GoI. there doesn't have to be one central version,in fact there should not be one central model. any centralized structure runs the risk of being a target of subversive forces and the outcome, if successful, will be devastating. versions
should crop up on their own wherever they like but GoI/GoS should be careful not to feed the extremist ones. the pro-Indian ones OTOH have to be spwned and nurtured.
the campaign has to be carefully coordinated with no religious overtones. all steps against the radicals need to be taken in the name of law enforcement; plausible deniability.
the only overt step should be to withdraw financial support to organizations deemed working at odds with national interest.

[kshirin]

I think this blast is the handiwork of the CPI&M at the behest of their paymasters (China). Having lost the nuclear vote in Parliament badly, CPI&M needs a distraction. China needs one just prior to Aug 8, 2008 Olympics. What better than a soft state like India to create mayhem. Looks like the rest of the world does not give a damn about terrorism directed against India. Brace yourself for another Indian city to be targeted by the vermins soon.

Yes, there is an international game plan, Kabul (before that Jaipur), Bangalore & Ahmedabad linked to India's emergence on world stage and signing of N deal. Have been saying this since Kabul. I do not endorse Modi tactics (except his economic success) in any way but he has got it right regarding the war against India and one mastermind for all this with many agents - there should be a national emergency for 5 years in which we should tighten up security on every front - West, internal and North East, launch blistering economic reforms meant to catch up with China and then leave them far behind and control our population growth:

http://publication.samachar.com/pub_art ... stread.php

It's a war against India: Narendra Modi
27 Jul 2008, 0156 hrs IST,AGENCIES


AHMEDABAD: Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday said there is one mastermind terrorist organisation triggering the blasts in different parts of the country. ( Watch ) Speaking to reporters after reviewing security at the city police headquartes here, Modi said the common pattern of all the blasts in the country was an indication that one terrorist organisation or nation was behind them. Modi said, " Desh ke dushmano ne aj Gandhi ke dharti to rakt ranjit kar diya hai (Enemies of the country have spilled blood in the land of Mahatma Gandhi). I have told all these things to the Prime Minister and Home Minister." Asserting that these blasts would not deter Gujarat from the path of progress, he said terrorists would not succeed in their plans. Modi also announced a compensation of Rs 5 lakh to each victim of the bomb blasts. 16 blasts rocked Ahmedabad this evening killing 29 people and leaving about 88 injured. "Terrorists are waging a war against India. We should be prepared for a long battle against terrorism," he said adding that killing innocent people is a crime against humanity. Asking people to maintain peace Modi said Gujarat will track down the terrorists and bring them to justice.

[Sanjay M]

Commie Reaction-

Do not politicise blasts: Yechury

So their angle is to try and tamp things down, rather than heaping blame onto "fascist communal forces"

When their need is dire, it's all too predictable that they change their political stripes.

[Rishirishi]

Yes, there is a way out - "Stop feeling guilty for arresting a muslim"

We are secular. Arresting a muslim or non-muslim is same.

If there are NO arrests the Muslim mullas will find some other excuse against India. There is a delibrate attempt to make the muslim mases feel prosecuted and under seige. This is the way the Mullas gain their power.

A war is being waged agianst the secular India. Partly by encoraging higher birth rates amongst muslims, and partly by avoiding that the Muslim mases do not integrate with the rest of the society. Already the Muslim votebank has a desisive strength. It is aiming to take control of small pockets fist, them more later.

[pushkar.bhat]

In marathi there is a saying "Gadhava cha nanger firavane" which means effectively punishing the folks in such a manner that no one from their family is left to narrate a tale of what happened. I guess its time to do exactly that.

Terror outfits will go slow only if they know that the personal cost of supporting terror is so high that even their downstream family is not left to reap the benefits. The Israelis have shown how its done. We need to do exactly that with the perpetrators of these blasts.

Pushkar that is something we cannot do to our own people. I fully support doing this to ISI/TSPA and their folk.

I would like to raise a question on this forum. How should a citizen of a country be treated if he is waging a war against the country whose citizenship he holds. IMHO the citizens and the government need to come down on him like a ton of bricks, so that no one dares to do that again. Sumeet here I don't differentiate between our "OWN" people and "Others". My own are not my own if they go against the grain. Comments welcome...

[Sanjay M]

It's the Leftist allies who have become fundamental enablers for the Islamists. Without them, the Islamists would not have nearly as much political support or propaganda cover.

[Hariprasad]

It is very clear from the blast that it is definately work of cells based in Mumbai. All the logistical, communication and professional support. I am sure that there will be something out there which can point to the right direction in investigation. The way that they had planted the bomb is definately an trait learned from outside India and it looks that there was atleast one suicide bomber. There is an urgent need for creating an spy force which is atleast a million strong and present in every nook and corner of country. Why the f*** government do not spend on internal security is a huge question. They should learn atleast something from USA who spends huge amount on Department of Homeland Security and you can see visible presence of them everywhere. The mastermind should be caught and publicly stoned to death or should be forced to wear a suicide belt and blown apart.

Second that. Need a massive upgrade in the state intelligence apparatus both in funding and manpower. What could be the possible set up so that they can function without any partisan interests and directly report to PM/ the President ?

Also what can be done by common man like me in this situation to help. Its extremely painful to see innocent people losing lives on a regular basis.