Blasts in Ahmedabad

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 27 Jul 2008 20:45

All the leads are to be followed. Americans are not angel. They have done such things before. May be they want to push India to squeezzzz Bakis a bit. I still wonder why they named the so called group "Indian Muzahid" and not "Hindustani Muzahid".........easy for world community to grasp the meaning?

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 27 Jul 2008 20:53

narayanan wrote:Rishi, Jagan, would/could u pls compare with the mines that were used to blow up the police bus in Andhra a week or so ago?

The mine discovery is VERY interesting.

N3 - Claymores are essentially an anti-personnel weapon. they are placed above ground facing the likely target area so that the force of blast and shrapnel are shot in that direction by the explosion. If you have to use it to blow up a bus or a vehicle, it will have to be placed above ground and is not really an effective weapon.

I have not read the previous Bus explosion report (will do it at some time), but the previous naxal ambushes in AP involved explosives buried under the road in containers. The exception to this was the attempt on Chandra Babu Naidu at tirupati which involved above ground claymore type bombs that flipped the car over .

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 27 Jul 2008 20:59

narayanan wrote:Rishi, Jagan, would/could u pls compare with the mines that were used to blow up the police bus in Andhra a week or so ago?

The mine discovery is VERY interesting.

I guess you are talking about the following story.
http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/02/stories ... 661700.htm

The Chitrakonda ambush too went on similar lines. Two Greyhounds units (each unit consists of 35 commandos) were sent to Orissa, purportedly on a joint operation with the Orissa police on June 24. They took the same route by a boat and throwing basic norms to winds chose to return in the same direction using the same transport.

“It was a predictable movement, which should have been avoided,” a senior police officer said. As the boat crossed a point, it came under heavy bursts of fire from Light Machine Guns from three directions. “It was not random fire, but a very controlled one. If firing ceased from one direction, it began from another point. Those sitting on the upper deck had no protection. When they rushed to the other side, the boat capsized and the heavy firing must have killed many of the commandos.”

LMGs and AK-47s getting into hands of Naxals from LeT, SIMI etc inreturn for Claymore mines is not a surprising story. The existence of a network of all these anti-national elements (Left groups, Islamic groups, LTTE) is an old story. On the front end we have CPIM, INC elements, SP+SIMI, Teesta types, N.Ram types and FOIL types blaming everything on either poverty and Narendra Modi/BJP/so called facists. On top of this we have now CNN-IBN types to help these folks.

I am not yet convinced that Left is involved in these attacks(Who knows, they may be part of it too. Time will tell.). SP may have been involved as the finger prints of SIMI is all over them.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 27 Jul 2008 21:06

Former spy master links ex-CM to ISI
10 Feb 2006, 1922 hrs IST,IANS

NEW DELHI: A former Indian spy master Friday accused Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency of corrupting journalists and even top Indian politicians, including a former chief minister.

"We see the ghosts of the CIA and KGB everywhere. The ISI has also made deep inroads into the media and political structure," former Intelligence Bureau joint director M.K. Dhar said at the launch of his new book "Fulcrum of Evil: ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda Nexus".

Dhar, who worked with India's internal intelligence agency for nearly three decades, however did not name the former chief minister whom he accused of working for the ISI.

Despite repeated provocations, he refused to say anything specific and took refuge in the Official Secrets Act that forbids such disclosures.

He only said his book was confined to events before 1995. "It's for you to find out," he said cryptically. "2006 is going to be a year of more upheavals as far as ISI operations are concerned."

Samata Party leader and former defence minister George Fernandes launched the book at the Foreign Correspondents Club.

Dhar's first book, "Open Secrets: India's Intelligence Unveiled", published last year, created a big splash by raising questions about the propriety of former civil servants divulging government secrets.

"Like the two other major fulcrums of evil - the CIA and KGB - Pakistan has targeted sensitive segments of Indian panorama. This segment contains the most sensitive areas of Indian politics, media and opinion makers," says the book.

"Fulcrum of Evil" seeks to expose the supposed links between the ISI, CIA, Saudi intelligence and various Islamist outfits linked with Al Qaeda, besides the ISI's evolution as a primary breeder of terror and subversive activities in the region.

Dhar says he has also traced the operations of the ISI inside India and India's "intelligence encirclement" from Nepal and Bangladesh.

Fernandes said: "We have often been casual about national security. We are not able to pre-empt crises. Terrorism is spreading everywhere.

"We should be wary of those who talk like friends, but operate like enemies," he said.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 409947.cms

Cong demands action against ''ISI-linked CM''

Lucknow: The Uttar Pradesh Congress today demanded that the UPA government should take into account a former IB official's revelations about the ISI links of a ''chief minister of a non-Congress ruled north Indian state'' and take appropriate action.

In a letter to Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil, the Uttar Pradesh unit of the Congress said the allegation made by former Intelligence Bureau Joint Director Moloy Krishna Dhar in his book was a matter of grave concern. '' The Centre should take appropriate action in this regard,'' the letter said.

''Since the author has not named the chief minister, it is important for the government to establish his identity at the earliest in the interest of national security,'' the letter added.

A copy of the letter has also been sent to state Governor T V Rajeswar.

''The person concerned was also kept under surveillance for his reported links with the ISI, terrorist organisations and intelligence agencies of foreign countries,'' the letter said, quoting, the book 'Fulcrum of evil: ISI-CIA-al Qaeda nexus'. The former IB official had maintained that the reigning Chief Minister belonged to a north Indian state not ruled by Congress.

The letter, signed by state unit chief spokesperson A P Singh, also mentioned an alleged meeting between a Nepalese MP during the 1996 assembly elections with the leader of a regional party in the state capital. ''The Nepalese MP was an open supporter of ISI agents and one of the masterminds of the Mumbai blasts,'' the letter added.
http://www.newkerala.com/news.php?actio ... s&id=94465

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 27 Jul 2008 21:07

Actually N3 saar has convinced me now to change my natural instinct to blame every thing bad on the Bakis and think along different lines. Can't rule out commie role, atleast in logistics and support

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 27 Jul 2008 21:14

Police make first arrest in A'bad blasts

7/27/2008
An activist of the banned militant outfit -- Ahle Hadeez -- was arrested in connection with the serial blasts in Ahmedabad which was on the edge today (July 27) with a live bomb in the city being defused and another three found in Surat city as the death toll rose to 49.

The arrested activist, identified as Abdul Halim and wanted in connection with 2002 post-Godhra riots, was picked up by the police from the communally- -sensitive Dani Limda area in the walled city. He had remained elusive since the riots.

Post merger with Lashkar, Dawood's men change sect

30 Mar 2008
MUMBAI: Intelligence agencies who have discovered the close synergy between the Dawood Ibrahim gang and the ISI-backed Lashkar-e-Toiba say that consequent to the "merger" with the jehadi group, most members of the underworld outfit have embraced the Ahle Hadees sect.

"We are not saying that all Ahle Hadees adherents are terrorists or D-Company members. But it is a fact that now an overwhelming number of Dawood’s gang members subscribe to the Ahled Hadees sect," a senior security official told TOI on Friday. The Times of India had on March 28 reported how the D-gang is now a part of LeT.

The Markazi Jamiat Ahle Hadees was founded on December 22, 1906 with a view to "propagating pristine Islamic message among Muslims in a systematic way and to motivate Muslims to adhere to the pristine monotheism (Tawheed)".

Its fundamentalist outlook is backed by Wahabi Islamic scholars of Saudi Arabia which is known to fund such religious activities.

This sect suffered badly during the 1947 partition since most of its main centres were located in Pakistan.

In 1952, its leader Maulana Abdul Wahab held a conference in UP to revive the movement and significantly it was attended by the then Saudi ambassador to India.

Ahle Hadees is so fundamentalist that it enjoins its followers to stop going to dargahs , do away with taweez (amulets) and stop listening to even religious qawwalis .

Its face, rabble rousing Hafeez Sayeed, spews venom against other faiths, calling upon his followers to ensure the global domination of Islam.

Prior to the coming together of Lashkar and D-Company, members of Dawood’s gang were split among diverse Islamic sects with only a section following Ahle Hadees.

But now most D-gang members believe in the Ahle Hadees teachings and are highly-motivated by them. "This makes it easy for the ISI-backed LeT to indoctrinate and train the gang members in terror activities. They are no more fighting for money, but for a larger cause which guarantees them a place in heaven," a security official observed.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Jul 2008 21:21

skimming through coverage in world media - seems like a strict memo went out from white house
to cover it very superficially. 24hrs after the blr blasts , NYT hadnt even heard of it. and these
are the guys who pickup a guinea pig scurrying in patagonia when they want to.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 27 Jul 2008 21:58

Agree with Singha on the coverage. News agencies capable of finding phantom small villages in India and reporting them regarding their treatments of "Dalit" did not even report Banglore blasts and were very slow to report Gujarat blasts. I even saw one report on Banglore that said everything is dandy and people are used to it and they would be fine.

Out in Gujarat, if few more incidents in cities like Vadodara and Anand, then riots are almost certain.
People have started to believe govt is not taking any actions including Modi's.
If there is no publicized swift action towards TSP, local public would start taking actions towards the closest thing to TSP.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 27 Jul 2008 22:06

My suggestion is to use the far lefties's mentors (Chinese) way to deal with this mess.

If the far lefties bitch and whine about it..tell them we are using their cultures (Chinese culture) methods to deal with Anti nationals.

The rest of world who are ignoring this issues would chose to ignore the solution I have proposed as well.

Manny

Shivani · Post by **Shivani** » 27 Jul 2008 22:15

I have looked at the type of bomb disposal suits (called EOD suits), and it appears there are lot of grades that provide different levels of protection corresponding to weight and price. What we have seen on TV seems to be the so called bomb search suit, which is lightest suit.

Therefore, it should give decent mobility and comfort, but not as much safety as compared to EOD Bomb Disposal Suit. Cheaper too.

The picture below shows a drill, and you can see that the fingers and hands are exposed even in west. The technicians probably need the articulation and no materials exist that can provide meaningful safety for fingers. Scary job.

EOD Bomb Disposal Suit Specifications

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Jul 2008 22:21

I am not in agreement with any version of this blame game state vs. center, TSP vs. AQ network, etc.. Let me tell you, we have to change this cultural behavior of blaming others for one's mistake. Please end this.

To me, It does matter who does the crime.. The crime is a crime is a crime, be it a brahmin priest, a dalit, a TSPian, or commie or perhaps our own gullible idiot jobless naxals. There is not difference in our approach towards crime, and for this any POTA or act should be welcomed. First steps are first steps, and there should be unanimous respect for such laws.

As enemies gear more towards advanced technology in weapons, so should not only be our mil setup, but civilian setup as well, for internal security reasons. These attacks are to be viewed under very basic attack against freedom and democracy.

We may derive at conclusions deriving out of many plausible plots against us, but none actually can give a conclusive answer, but only a near black box value. Uncertainity principles applies here as well.

We can't rule out any possible values that is intended against our freedom. We need unity in establishing and singling out these anti nations (als), be it in desh or bidesh.

The question is, can we grow into a more capable and mature society, that at the very least have these thoughts as fundamental corrections to the ways we live? As we keep correcting, our setup, we still may have many of our free public fall as victims, but each of their blood should feel in heaven, that we are moving towards a more well structured society, to handle these to prevent such things to happen in the future.

The answers lies with every individual, and their knowledge and understanding of a common purpose, we have drafted our living. These answers have a lot of gaps, and a lot of bridges have broken.. Its easy for any enemy to see these holes, and pocket the bombs exactly at these holes, and keep us guessing and in-fighting.

my point is, instead of just focusing on finding who is the enemy onleee, there should be also enough concentrated efforts to improve our freedom setup, such that we are shunting these living holes for the future secure place.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 27 Jul 2008 22:39

SaiK wrote:
To me, It does matter who does the crime.. The crime is a crime is a crime, be it a brahmin priest, a dalit, a TSPian, or commie or perhaps our own gullible idiot jobless naxals.

.

Huh ! birather, no naxal/criminal is gullible enough to be part of an atrocity of this scale, please think before you post, lest it leads to scores of posts about "gullible osama , dawood, mao ets"

Thanks

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 27 Jul 2008 22:41

Muppalla:
The event I remembered is the second of these listed here: not the boat attack but the bus attack

It was inside Orissa, not AP, though the policemen came from AP.

Fighting the Maoists with Mantras
Ajai Sahni

Two dramatic attacks in rapid succession in the Malkangiri District of Orissa – on June 29 and again on July 16, 2008 – have demonstrated the utter irrationality of Force deployment in anti-Maoist operations in much of India. In the first of these, 38 troopers, including 36 from the elite Greyhounds Force from neighbouring Andhra Pradesh, were killed in an attack on a boat in the Balimela Reservoir; in the second, 17 Orissa Police personnel, including six drawn from the State’s Special Operations Group (SOG), died in an explosion while travelling in a ‘mine proof’ vehicle during a ‘combing operation’.

.. in the wake of the July 16 landmine incident, .....

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 27 Jul 2008 22:57

narayanan wrote:Muppalla:
The event I remembered is the second of these listed here: not the boat attack but the bus attack

It was inside Orissa, not AP, though the policemen came from AP.

AFAIK, most of the police in that instance died not from the mine blast. but by gun wounds while trying to come out of over turned vehicle after the blast.

The claymore type bomb shown in the picture is desgined to spread the sharpnel in a wide ark, maximising the killing potential. I have seen a picture of exact same device before, can't remember where! I am trawling the net, will post if I mamange to find it.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 27 Jul 2008 23:01

Communism is evil and must be treated as such. Stamp it out with extreme prejudice.

Wonder when such a circular will go out to every GoI employee there is. be sure if the commies capture Delhi, this will be the first circular they send out, with 'RSS' replacing 'communism' of course.

Oh, btw, commie-apologist Ramachandra Guha on tv earlier today:

Terrorism is the price we pay for having a democracy.

Wow. The cat's out of the bag then. So, IOW, there'll be no more terrorism in his commie utopia.

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 27 Jul 2008 23:03

Yes the recent maoist attack on the police personnel's van killing 17 of them was a very powerful landmine -

from a rediff archive -

Mounting a second major attack in less than three weeks, Maoists killed 17 police personnel by triggering a powerful landmine explosion in Orissa's Malkangiri district on Wednesday.

The blast took place at MV-126 under Kalimela police station area, about 50 km from Malkangiri, when jawans of Orissa's Special Operation Group and police were travelling in a van to MPV-41, Director General of Police Gopal Chandra Nanda said.

The explosion blew up the van carrying the jawans when it stopped due to road blocks erected by Maoists by putting logs of wood on Moto-Kalimela road.

Btw, some of the explosives recovered from the Bengaluru blasts were from AP. North AP, Orissa is "annala" (meaning brothers) heaven.

Is that really a mine though. Its shaped and thats scary in itself. But it cant have been a mine, the intensity would have revealed it. Or its the shell thats been used. The insides have been either emptied out (why would they do that?) or they have access to the shaped shells.

All in all, N^3 sar, this one goes in the commie angle column.

== added

The one used by the maoists in the attack on July 16th. But notice the wording - its programmable and can be scaled up and down. Unless made locally (would they be IEDs with triggers then?), I would have thought that there were various categories of mines to take out personnel to tanks. In this case its looks like they were able to kluje up a mine and scale it with additional explosive.

'Anti-landmine vehicles have tolerance limits to withstand a blast. In this case, the rebels used huge explosives, much more than what it could tolerate,' said Gajbhiye.

Some eyewitnesses said the blast was so powerful that the vehicle was thrown over 40 metres in the air before it crashed on the ground.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Jul 2008 23:06

vaman, getting into acts of terrorism is a state of mind of the deceived kind. I am not denying your view that only intelligence is required to plant such bombings.. but, imho, those who do these, need to be intelligent. Those who plan these may be., who normally don't do the dirty work, but make the idiots do it for money packet plus some orientation to do such things, cause they have little sense in absorbing what they do is wrong or right. They just do it because of the money packet they get to do it (normally).

Of course you do have certain kinds, coming from terrorism schools, who major in their studies in their bible and teachings, and take to these jobs cause of their duty to do so.. and these kinds are more dangerous than those idiots who do it for money. These are the kinds, that need Khan $$$ to convert their madrassas into better science and math schools.

If you consider options, you can't rule out the idiot kind as well.

Tamang · Post by **Tamang** » 27 Jul 2008 23:07

Modi should own moral responsibility for security lapse: Cong

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 27 Jul 2008 23:36

No correlation obviously but lookie here - Just a few months ago.

Maoists loot 1.75 tonnes of explosives from Chhattisgarh mine

March 28 (IANS) Scores of heavily armed Maoist guerrillas in Chhattisgarh raided an iron ore mine of the public sector Steel Authority of India Ltd (SAIL) and looted 1.75 tonnes of explosives. They also abducted six mine officials but released them later, police said Friday. The Chhattisgarh Police and paramilitary forces launched a major drive early Friday to recover the explosives looted the day before from the Mahamaya mine in Durg district, about 170 km from here.

The explosives are used for blasting surfaces and rocks.

“Dozens of search parties have fanned out in Durg and (southern) Bastar region,” Girdhari Nayak, inspector general in charge of Maoist operations, told IANS.

The Mahamaya mine is used by SAIL to feed its flagship unit - the Bhilai Steel Plant (BSP) based in Durg district.

Officials at the police headquarters here said the 100 odd rebels looted gelatine that could be used for landmine attacks.

Durg District Superintendent Of Police Dipanshu Kabra said the “explosives were a mix up of ammonium nitrate and sulphur that make together a devastating combination”.

According to Kabra, the police have surrounded a forested stretch in Kanker district bordering Durg district where it is believed the explosives have been kept.

The paramilitary Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) has also joined in the hunt while police has been alerted in five districts of Bastar — Dantewada, Bijapur, Kanker, Narayanpur and Bastar. The fear is that the explosives would be used to target the police.

In February 2006, Maoists killed eight Central Industrial Security Forces (CISF) personnel guarding an explosives store of the public sector National Mineral Development Corp (NMDC) in Dantewada district and taken away nearly 20 tonnes of explosives. These are yet to be recovered.

That mine picture is still etched in my mind. That very strongly means maoists to me.

If the maoists have linked up with the SIMI-HuJI-LeT networks, then its the perfect storm for India. For it brings to bear -
1. Human resources (who's the HR VP in this case - who calls the shots)
2. Material resources (no lacking firepower if the Maoists are in)
3. Political power (we know how very high level anti-naxal meetings' minutes are leaked to the Naxals)
3. No more small pockets. Penetration across the whole country - Urban and Rural

But the low intensity nature suggests a subtle message and the maoists dont send such soft messages. They sink barges and then go after the swimming, drowning victims to murder them. Their messages are simple.

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 27 Jul 2008 23:52

Genrally speaking, maoists don't target the civilian population. And cities are their weakest bases. They have very nominal intelligence in the cities. Also remember that most of their leaders are caught in the cities. I don't know if they have changed their tactics.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Jul 2008 23:58

yvijay, you forget the fact that bengal's naxalite movement was concentrated in the cities. it's not that naxalism can't sustain itself in the cities.
and if the dots that are being connected here do actually form an image, IMO, that would point towards a cooperative arrangement b/w the naxals and the jihadists with the later providing the
tech and the former providing the manpower.

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 28 Jul 2008 00:09

yvijay wrote:Genrally speaking, maoists don't target the civilian population.

That couldn't be farther from the truth.

There's probably no need once they have been brutalized into submission. They need someone to lord over and feed them dont they. Wont derail this thread.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 28 Jul 2008 00:21

Kokatta used to have explosions practically every day in the late 1960s. The BD war took some of the "fun" away, and by then WB had been, as pradeepe says, completey subjugated. After that every election saw murder of enough opposition candidates to ensure Marxist victories, and in the villages it was complete dominance of terror. The big Indian cities are today paying the price for comfortably ignoring the plight of the small towns and villages in NE, J&K, Orissa, Bihar, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand and AP, where terror has been very much a part of everday existence.

(Wow! that sounds a lot like the Leninist-Maoist Manfesto..)

khaushik · Post by **khaushik** » 28 Jul 2008 00:28

Hi,

Until there is injustice and inequality, the oppressed would fight the oppressors.

The militant wing of communists are expoliting this scenario to capitalize and gain. When people are robbed and not provided the benefit of the growing economy, the poor and illeterate expect some comfort that is provided by the naxalites and inturn the naxalites gain man power and more support.

Islamic insurgents irrespective of the benefits and equality, they fight for establishing a muslim utopian state, which they believe to be the highest level of achievement.

Both these factions are ripping India and they are not independent organizations but either dependent military factions of their political / religious organization.

We should address the economic inequality but also hold the communist parties responsible for naxalite actions. Similarly clean up the educational system. Why the hell in a secular country do we need a religious form of education ? That is where ideology is nurtured and grown. The government should not accept any form of religious education. Hold the people who execute and run religious instutions directly responsible for extremism, when some one from their school is involved.

Whether we have crooks or statesmen in the assembly, we ought have the above measures implemented to stop and diffuse the from the direction we are heading.

human,
welcome to BRF.
seems you have taken the policy of human sounding names literally !
I'm changing it to khaushik. please let me know if that is acceptable.
Rahul.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 28 Jul 2008 00:37

Raju wrote:
Former spy master links ex-CM to ISI
10 Feb 2006, 1922 hrs IST,IANS

NEW DELHI: A former Indian spy master Friday accused Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency of corrupting journalists and even top Indian politicians, including a former chief minister.

Cong demands action against ''ISI-linked CM''
Lucknow: The Uttar Pradesh Congress today demanded that the UPA government should take into account a former IB official's revelations about the ISI links of a ''chief minister of a non-Congress ruled north Indian state'' and take appropriate action.

So who is the ISI-linked CM, and why is everyone so reluctant to mention him by name?
Can I assume that we're talking about Mulayam/Amar team as the ISI stooges?

In the US and other developed countries, nobody is hesitant to immediately declare the name of a corrupt politician. Why is it totally different in India, where media have to be coy, instead of forthright?

Why would Congress people be quickly looking to pursue blame against Samajwadi leaders if Congress depend upon them for support right now? Does this imply that there are rebellious elements within the Congress who are unhappy with the current political alliance arrangement?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 28 Jul 2008 01:09

Why is there no major terror attack in EU or US?

There is point beyond which corruption stops buying things.
In India its different and more and more teror attacks are predictable why?
Answer is simple, the corruption in society is at the highest from loksabha to police thana, want a passport can buy, want citizenship buy it, want a degree buy it, want a fake experience certificate buy it, get caught buy your way out, want a vote buy it want 5 star treatment in jail buy it

accept master card yes priceless

so all this tamasha is home grown and even if it is sponsored by TSP and his uncles you cant pull a single strand of hair from their b@lls because we have not done our home work.

Frankly its a right approach its too expensive to fix it so lets play with it and pray crocdile tributes with tears.

Stop whining and start seeing reality and wait for the next one. whats the final score please?

this how India is being monkied by one and all

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 28 Jul 2008 01:21

Sanjay M wrote:Why would Congress people be quickly looking to pursue blame against Samajwadi leaders if Congress depend upon them for support right now? Does this imply that there are rebellious elements within the Congress who are unhappy with the current political alliance arrangement?

Raju's post was using links from 2006 news items and hence the confusion.

I do not believe that these blasts has any left involvement. The weapons and methods used clearly point to islamists with help form local modules. The local modules are harboured by SP and INC masters. The top echleons wanted communal riots and the local administration so far has taken right steps.

Nuke deal and left parites leaving the coalition has no relation to these blasts. It is the SP(SIMI's masters) being directly in the coalition has direct reasons to these blasts. Spinning away from truth (i.e either the involvement of ISI+ with/withoutr coalition politics at centre) by bringing in the left elements (using needles of suspicions) is not going to help in anyway.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 28 Jul 2008 01:39

Terror's scary face
The Pioneer Edit Desk
India pays for Congress's folly
Saturday's serial bombings in Ahmedabad, within 24 hours of the terrorist attack on Bangalore, serve to highlight the fact that our internal security situation is rapidly deteriorating even as the Union Government, under the Congress's tutelage and headed by a Prime Minister seemingly indifferent to national concerns, refuses to be distracted from the India-US nuclear deal which has become the symptom of the regime's obsessive compulsive disorder. It is obvious that the bombings -- both in Ahmedabad and Bangalore, and before that in Jaipur -- are aimed at creating panic and spreading fear; those behind the blasts have demonstrated that they can strike anywhere at any time. It is equally obvious that those who planned and carried out these acts of terrorism expect a blowback in the form of communal violence. A third factor which merits mention is that BJP-ruled States are being targeted for murder and mayhem; this perception naturally leads to the conclusion that a larger game is being played whose purpose does not require elaboration. Was the effort to instigate communal riots in Indore during the protest against the Sri Amarnath land issue a part of this conspiracy? In retrospect, it would seem so. Seen against this backdrop, the BJP Governments must rise to the occasion and meet the challenge with unwavering determination: Agent provocateurs will no doubt seek to exploit the situation; they must be spotted, exposed and firmly dealt with. Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi has rightly described the perpetrators of Saturday's outrage as "enemies of humanity". They must be neutralised and their network of evil should be destroyed.

Strangely, the Union Government has shown little or no interest in last weekend's terrorist strikes, apart from issuing proforma statements condeming the violence and appealing for peace. Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil, who has contributed the most to dismantling the anti-terrorism mechanism put together by the NDA Government, partly on account of the fact that he is unequal to his job and largely to implement the Congress's perverse agenda of appeasing Muslims by pandering to Islamic fanatics who define terrorism as jihad and are at ease with innocent people being slaughtered, has tried to pass the buck to the Governments of Karnataka and Gujarat. According to him, the terrible loss of lives and the resultant disquiet bear testimony to the 'abilities' of local authorities and the police; had he said anything different, there would have been occasion for surprise. The truth is that the chickens of the UPA Government's chicanery are coming home to roost. The Prime Minister and his aides -- among them Mr Patil and a National Security Adviser who, along with intelligence agencies, is busy helping the Congress achieve its political objectives -- have allowed the situation to come to such a sorry pass. They must be held accountable for the consequences; their pious declarations should not distract us from their monumental folly in allowing terrorists to spread their tentacles across the country. Having got rid of POTA and instituted a system that takes a libertine view of terrorism, the UPA Government is now bent upon hobbling the Governments of BJP-ruled States with the intent of preventing them from waging war on terror. Had this not been the case, the UPA Government would not have sat on the laws enacted by the State Assemblies of Rajasthan and Gujarat to combat terrorism and organised crime. Such cynical abuse of power is both a shame and a pity.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 28 Jul 2008 01:53

Muppalla wrote:I do not believe that these blasts has any left involvement.

Right. The problem I have with theories of left involvement is that it then implies involvement of left sympathisers within Congress as well. The left within India has been appeased and protected by Congress since the time that Gandhi appointed Nehru as Congress president. Why would they turn on Congress all of a sudden?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 28 Jul 2008 01:57

John Snow you are sadly right the following quote (do not know the author) lustrates your point.

“India’s economy may come to equal America’s in size by 2050, but India will never be a serious contender as a “global superpower” the way Great Britain used to be or China aspires to be. India is basically a mercantile nation that has no designs on a grand partnership with any military power other than for protecting its own domain. For two millennia India was invaded, scavenged, colonized, and broken up, only to rise again without any heightened sense of nationalism or interest in influencing geopolitics. “

Majority of the people do not care, on top of this the politicians will not do anything to rectify the slow but steady slide of the country. India (majority of the people) does not have the desire, willpower, and courage to deal with the current situation. To add insult to injury the whole bombing episodes have become a speculation sport, where people are speculating as to which city/town will be the next victim. This is beyond helpless; in fact it feels like total surrender.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 28 Jul 2008 02:12

It's kinda funny that everyone's blaming Shivraj Patil and central govt while central govt doesn't even have powers to arrest a single person anywhere in India, leave aside cracking sleeping cells of terrorists. All the law, order and policing powers rest with state govts and they protect those powers with unmatched enthusiasm.

For federal govt it’s almost like full accountability with no powers! If SRP talks about capability of local cops he is justified, as they are the ones who have constitutionally entrusted to protect people not the central govt. Central govt’s job starts only when situation is out of hand or state govt requests it to take over.

Until we fix this anamoly in our system this blame game will continue and nothing will get done.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 28 Jul 2008 02:18

Katare wrote:It's kinda funny that everyone's blaming Shivraj Patil and central govt while central govt doesn't even have powers to arrest a single person anywhere in India, leave aside cracking sleeping cells of terrorists. All the law, order and policing powers rest with state govts and they protect those powers with unmatched enthusiasm.

It is the same thing as LKA was being blamed for everything in the country when he was the HM during NDA regime. Can the country have two different way of looking at the same situation

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 28 Jul 2008 02:21

Having got rid of POTA and instituted a system that takes a libertine view of terrorism, the UPA Government is now bent upon hobbling the Governments of BJP-ruled States with the intent of preventing them from waging war on terror. Had this not been the case, the UPA Government would not have sat on the laws enacted by the State Assemblies of Rajasthan and Gujarat to combat terrorism and organised crime. Such cynical abuse of power is both a shame and a pity.

Katare Sir,
What is your opinion regarding federal responsibility in case of the above situation? why did the union cabinet did not send it to president for making it a law?

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 28 Jul 2008 02:42

My contact in A'bad says the death toll is "in the hundreds". Any comments?

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 28 Jul 2008 02:51

Rahul M wrote:yvijay, you forget the fact that bengal's naxalite movement was concentrated in the cities. it's not that naxalism can't sustain itself in the cities.
and if the dots that are being connected here do actually form an image, IMO, that would point towards a cooperative arrangement b/w the naxals and the jihadists with the later providing the
tech and the former providing the manpower.

RahulM,
I don't know much about bengal's naxalite movement, so pardon my ignorance. I'm talking with info I know about the naxalism in AP. The problem with them targeting civilians is they lack the idealogy of the Islamism. Their cadre presently is not so idealogically comitted as before. In the earlier generation they used to have lot of highly educated people who were more idealogically comitted. It's not the case any more. It's more about economic greviances now. That's why AP police were able to eliminate from nallamalla forests with the carrot and stick policy. If they seem to be targeting civilians, they loose their base.

As I said before, they may be changing their tactics and collabarating with jihadists. I have to study more about it.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 28 Jul 2008 02:56

Acharya,
No, Advani has nothing to do with what's happening today.

Muppalla,

TADA and POTA were enacted by federal govts to empower state govts to combat terrorism. If you look at the data, IIRC, highest number of people were booked under these two laws by govt of UP and Bihar not the govts of Kashmir and North East where terrorism and naxalism was/is thriving. The chief ministers use to threaten opposition politicians that I'll book you under TADA/POTA in those days. Those instruments in current conditions became tools of terror by ruling politicians over others. I am not against TADA/POTA but I want them to be brought and enforced by central govt only under a constitutionally empowered and independent police organization.

Anyhow in today’s scenario if they can't even find a single person behind these attacks what would POTA/TADA do? These laws only help in prosecuting arrested terrorists they can't provide the proactive monitoring and intelligence that is needed on a pan-India scale. If a draconian law is applied by more than two dozen state-govts it would not help but only create problems.

Also the comparison of NDA that most nations have anti-terrorist laws is empty since in those nations those laws are mostly applied by the federal govts not state/local govts. We need to bite the bullet and make states part some of their policing powers to federal govt. A division of power on the lines of USA may be an effective solution. In USA FBI gets involved automatically if it is an interstate crime, Terrorism, international crime, organized crime, kidnapping etc. The powers and role are clearly defined and sovereignty of states are properly defined. In India's case Federal govt can't get involve unless state govt asks it to which is always happens after the crime is committed. Since it is not empowered to fight crimes/terrorism it isn't even equipped to do the same. POTA/TADA without the reform of policing setup would be counter productive.

Also BJP/Congress both are in favor of empowering central govt by bringing an Indian version of FBI and SC mandated police reforms in states but regional parties and most CM's are vehemently opposed to it.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 28 Jul 2008 03:01

narayanan wrote:My contact in A'bad says the death toll is "in the hundreds". Any comments?

Yes, That's what I heard from my friends and relatives. The hospital bombs took terrible toll.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 28 Jul 2008 03:23

The latest is :
1. Police have found two explosives laden Wagon R's in Surat, parked.
2. Two explosives have been difused in Ahmedabad.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 28 Jul 2008 03:32

This is scary. Unless our agencies get some real breakthroughs soon, I fear the terrorists' plans will succeed.

Blast after blast, at some point something has to give and there'll be open rioting on the streets.

And if these are indeed homegrown jihadists, then why would they care about war and the subsequent dismemberment of TSP? They'll merrily go about blowing up soft targets and practically everything and everyone (except for the 0.000001% of Indians who are the VVVIPs) is a soft target right now.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 28 Jul 2008 03:41

sunilUpa wrote:
narayanan wrote:My contact in A'bad says the death toll is "in the hundreds". Any comments?
Yes, That's what I heard from my friends and relatives. The hospital bombs took terrible toll.

This is scary. Potential starting point for riots. I hope there is a blanket security cover in all the sensitive areas.