Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 14 Jul 2008 03:04

Bangalore airport capacity may double

Civil aviation minister Praful Patel has directed Bangalore International Airport Limited (BIAL), the Siemens-led private consortium developing the new greenfield airport, to increase its capacity to handle passengers.

According to sources in the civil aviation ministry, the current passenger handling capacity of the Bangalore airport is 11 million per annum.

Sources in the civil aviation ministry said that BIAL has been told to create a second terminal which will be an exact replica of the existing terminal within the next three years. This would more than double the capacity of the airport.

Till that terminal is not completed, BIAL has been asked to make arrangements to increase its capacity in the next eight months. Sources in the ministry said that Patel was "not happy with the new airport"

BIAL's projected traffic of 10.1 million passengers by 2010 was achieved in 2007-08 itself and the airport has been seeing a 25 per cent growth over the past couple of years.

BIAL executives were not available for comment. BIAL is a consortium of Siemens-Zurich Airport, L&T, Airports Authority of India (AAI) and Karnataka State Investment and Industrial Development Corporation. The airport has been functional from May 24 this year.

The Bangalore airport currently has one terminal for both international and domestic operations. The terminal works as a swing area which provides flexibility for both domestic and international operations as per the peak hour.

The departure area, for instance, is divided into three areas. Two-thirds of that area is used for domestic operations, while one part is used for international during the daytime. During the night when there are more international flights, two-thirds is used for international operations and the rest for domestic operations.

Bangalore airport has 53 common use check-in counters which allow more than one airline to use it at different hours. It has 18 self check-in counters.

The airport has 4000 acres of land at its disposal which would allow it to enhance the infrastructure to increase passenger handling capacity to 40 million passengers a year.

http://www.business-standard.com/common ... ono=328553

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 14 Jul 2008 11:55

Good article from The Engineer:

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/Articles/3 ... better.htm

India should invest in these, as low-cost solutions for paramilitary forces. If such small companies can make them, we could probably make our own, Tata nano-style, and even export them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1-Fo7uQlrY

http://www.sportcopter.com/supersport.php

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Jul 2008 12:18

actually AAI ratted on BIAL and informed MinCivA that actual capacity is only
10mil which means it is undercapacity from day1.

I am not sure how the one tiny terminal can handle even 10 mil /annum.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 14 Jul 2008 12:49

Singha wrote:actually AAI ratted on BIAL and informed MinCivA that actual capacity is only
10mil which means it is undercapacity from day1.

I am not sure how the one tiny terminal can handle even 10 mil /annum.

It can by engaging in price gouging, providing the least facilities, overcrowded terminals, and get most bang for the invested buck before they are compelled to upgrade by all the noise and bad image. That takes years in India, in the meantime they rake in the big moolah. We are so used to the AAI septic tanks that we take anything that is offered as a boon.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Jul 2008 12:57

indeed. BIALs break even point will be a record for a major airport. most such
projects worldwide take many years to break even.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 14 Jul 2008 16:09

the size of the 'new' Bangalore airport is disappointing. Bangalore is centrally located in South India to be a South Indian hub for all airlines. Size is very important.

most such
projects worldwide take many years to break even.
indeed. BIALs break even point will be a record for a major airport. most such
projects worldwide take many years to break even.

Do they charge 'user-fees' ?

bart · Post by **bart** » 14 Jul 2008 19:11

Raju Saar,

You are missing the point of the Bangalore airport which is not to provide better connectivity to the 'IT-Vity capital', or allow HAL to test their planes round the clock, or to serve as a hub for South India.

It has brilliantly fulfilled it's main purpose, which is to provide immense profits (in black money) to the land mafia that grabbed land in the vicinity, foremost amongst the mafia being the fumble harmer and kin.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 15 Jul 2008 08:01

Guys, seriously, can something be done about this plunder at all? I know PIL's have been tried and failed. But something has got to work. The worry is not the amount plundered by BIAL using their monopoly concession, but that this will become the template for future looting by other parties after bribing a crook or two.

I think hard-core facts need to be assembled and dirt kicked up on a large scale. By tapping the right political vein, media contacts, even in this country things can be done. Elections are around the corner..that gives additional scope. I think it is not even wrong to take help from AAI parasites and their handlers in the politburo though they have created this situation by their own decades of crass incompetence, lethargy, negligence and corruption.

1. For instance how many airports have land allotted on such large scale? Global comparisons are valid here.
2. How many airport operators are allowed to profit from hotels, IT parks and other facilities on subsidised land allotted for airport?
3.Are there any standards of service laid down such as those found for telecom operators (BTW such things perhaps dont exist even for them, but that's another story). For instance, how many sq.ft per passenger, toilets per passenger, water facility, etc. etc. I find even chairs are inadequate at peak international operation hours, same as it was before in the AAI dump. Who monitors them and fines who?
4. Is there any independent monitoring of investment and returns? No one would care about this if it were not a monopoly.

AmitNangia · Post by **AmitNangia** » 15 Jul 2008 11:25

Spiceject stake sold to Wilbur Ross for Rs 345 cr

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Wil ... 234860.cms

AmitNangia · Post by **AmitNangia** » 15 Jul 2008 17:12

Kingfisher's new A330 is on display at Farnborough. Here's as video tour of the aircraft.

http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1668486879

Looks like Mallya is planning to go full steam ahead with plans to connect BLR-SFO.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Dow ... 237175.cms

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jul 2008 07:51

New Airports off to a flying start

There is a huge difference in the number of check-in counters between BIAL & HIAL. There is also a diff. of 10m passengers p.a. between these two.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 16 Jul 2008 08:04

The more important thing is the space constructed. How much is the gap between HIAL and BIAL in terms of check-in area, waiting area and gap between gates? I think the 12m capacity in BIAL is overstated, unless of course, they are assuming the kind of space and comfort available at KSRTC bus depots.

BIAL does not have X-Ray machines for gate entry which even Colombo (and Taipei, Singapore, other cities) has. This quickens loading and also facilitates future use as transit hub. BIAL gates have barely enough space for a slim airline girl to stand even then obstructing passenger entry

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 16 Jul 2008 09:16

India Develops Wankel Rotary Engine for Light Aircraft

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Jul 2008 09:53

any idea of the terminal sq ft between bial & hial ? the 2x checkin counters indicate a huge disparity. has anyone travelled through both ?

AAI has already let cat out of bag - stated capacity of 12 mil is a myth. praful
patel must look into this and enforce some better stds.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 16 Jul 2008 12:03

Goa pushes for 2 airports
Wednesday, July 16, 2008

From Devika Sequeira: A special committee set up by the Centre to settle the issue of a greenfield airport for Goa has recommended that the state be allowed to run two airports a new one at Mopa and the existing one at Dabolim, which operates out of the defence establishment.

The Mopa Committee headed by Chief Minister Digambar Kamat submitted its report to the Prime Minister on Monday. It urged the Centre to review its decision to shut down civilian operations from Dabolim Airport in southern Goa when the new airport is commissioned in the northern part of the tourist state.

Retaining Dabolim had become an election issue in Goa with protests from the tourism sector in south Goa, given the considerable distance from Mopa to beaches in the south of the state. Mopa, in Pernem taluka, is on the Goa-Maharashtra border and many hoteliers here fear an international airport at this location would help open up business interests in the neighbouring state, rather than promote tourism in Goa.

The Goa committee also wants the Civil Aviation Ministry to make available land for upgrading the Dabolim airport. It said the navy was utilising land for construction of a large number of residential quarters for persons other than employees and officers posted in Goa.

The Goa government said it proposed to adopt the best model for the construction of the new airport after a study of greenfield airports at Hyderabad, Bangalore, Navi Mumbai and Noida.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Jul 2008 12:30

big bull has unleashed his right hook on the LCC:

starting this week on Deccan:

- hot breakfast, lunch or dinner onboard for Rs 40/- including coffee/tea
- checkin at KF counters so you can interact with a pyt
- Deccan boarding will use KFs AC buses if available

I am just awaiting the free onboard backrub and eye massage before
booking my ticket.

Sam CS · Post by **Sam CS** » 18 Jul 2008 00:16

Singha wrote: I am just awaiting the free onboard backrub and eye massage before
booking my ticket.

You Greedy Injun!!!

Onboard backrub and eye massage = Rs. 100/- on Deccan.

We are LCC onlee.

Free on Kingfisher, though from a PYT who doesn't know how to smile.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 19 Jul 2008 10:57

Private business jet sales are booming:

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... 768338.htm

AmitNangia · Post by **AmitNangia** » 19 Jul 2008 19:29

Singha wrote:big bull has unleashed his right hook on the LCC:

starting this week on Deccan:

- hot breakfast, lunch or dinner onboard for Rs 40/- including coffee/tea
- checkin at KF counters so you can interact with a pyt
- Deccan boarding will use KFs AC buses if available

I am just awaiting the free onboard backrub and eye massage before
booking my ticket.

Just came back from a round trip journey on Deccan, and I am happy to report that it ain't the same airline anymore. Besides the PYTs, which are always welcome, the service has gone up a few notches, and was really personalized. Kind of like KF, with someone greeting you from the kerb itself, and taking care of matters till check-in.
So looks like Mallya is really upping the ante.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Jul 2008 09:34

he wants to buy or wipe spicejet and indigo off the map. Goair is in comatose
state already. he wants 50% marketshare.

Sam CS · Post by **Sam CS** » 20 Jul 2008 22:48

Singha wrote:he wants to buy or wipe spicejet and indigo off the map. Goair is in comatose
state already. he wants 50% marketshare.

More power for him. But, the only way he is going to accomplish this without flushing more beer money down the toilet is if he develops a sane International strategy.

Etihad just finished placing just about the largest widebody order (by numbers) in the history of airlines - at the Farnborough Air Show. All this capacity aimed primarily at the usual European Backpacker to down under and the Desi folk heading out everywhere.

Our cabinet committees are still doing the chai-biskoot on how old airlines have to be before they fly abroad.

Shivani · Post by **Shivani** » 27 Jul 2008 07:22

High fuel prices will be blamed, but it cannot be denied that a few government policies played key role in forcing this decision:

Not allowing Indian operators to fly abroad.
Very high cost of ATF (courtesy excise, taxes...).
Allowing Air India to survive at taxpayers expense when that company should have been broken and assets auctioned off.
Not building one decent airport in sixty years that can match Changi, Suvarnabhumi or Sepang. This would have allowed Indian airlines to compete with other International operators on Kangaroo route, not to mention other SE Asian-EU traffic.

Kingfisher to sell two A340s to other carriers

Manisha Singhal / Mumbai July 26, 2008, 0:29 IST
To defer deliveries of 29 narrow-bodied aircraft.

Weighed down by rising crude prices, Vijay Mallya-promoted Kingfisher Airlines is in negotiations with international carriers to sell two of the five A340-500 aircraft it had committed to buy from Airbus last year. The airline may also defer taking deliveries of 29 narrow-bodied A320s, airline sources said.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 27 Jul 2008 16:10

Shivani wrote:[*] Not building one decent airport in sixty years that can match Changi, Suvarnabhumi or Sepang.

Let us not set sights too high for AAI parasites. You should have said 'match Colombo' instead.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 28 Jul 2008 03:10

Time to replace Praful Patel?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 28 Jul 2008 07:31

Air cargo plans to take off despite slowdown

Indian companies are going ahead with their cargo plans amidst slowdown and lower projected demand for the cargo planes.

The Boeing Company, the US-based aircraft manufacturer, in its 2008 Current Market Outlook (CMO) for India, has said the country will need only 24 dedicated freighters for the 2008-2027. The aircraft maker has not increased the forecast for cargo planes from last year (2007-2026). This is when the company has revised the projections for passenger plans to 977 (2008-2027) from last year's projection (2007-2016) of 887.

Boeing's 20-year forecast takes into account the industry's near-term challenges, including slowdown in world economy, surging fuel prices, slowing traffic growth and concerted action by airlines to balance costs and revenues.

But Indian companies are up with their plans. For example, Capt GR Gopinath, who is planning to start a separate cargo airline company Deccan Cargo, has plans to acquire a large version of cargo airplane from Boeing's rival company Airbus, the European airplane maker.

Hyderabad-based Flyington Freighters is also planning half a dozen of such planes to start international cargo operations.

Other start-up companies have plans to launch their services with smaller planes.

"We have plans to get more cargo planes. We would be converting the existing passenger planes that are old for cargo carriage. We also have plans to get large version of cargo planes," said an Air India official.
The official said though belly space is available for cargo carriage, there is lot of restrictions for utilizing that space. "More cargo will not only affect the turnaround time of an aircraft but also create huge logistics issue. One should remember we are getting more revenue from passenger. But if we deploy a separate cargo airline, we tend to get better rate," the official added.

Air India has a separate cargo division and has leased some of its cargo planes to Gati. Besides Air India, carriers such as Kingfisher Airlines, Jet Airways and GoAir have plans to start a separate cargo airline division.
In addition, Reliance Industries is also actively exploring options to start air cargo company to handle the cargo generated from the special economic zones that it has proposed in Navi Mumbai and North.

"Boeing's market outlook is rooted not only in these near-term realities, but also recognises the nature of a long-term forecast," said Dr Dinesh Keskar, senior vice president, sales, Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

Dr Keskar said India may not need large number of freighters in future though India will grow over 6% in its GDP.
He said the country may not order large freighter versions such as B777 or B747.

"The reason is simple that India is ordering more commercial passenger airplanes. “These planes will be adding more cargo carrying capacity on its belly space. Typically a Boeing 777 version can carry up to 20 tonne of cargo," he said. At present, Blue Dart Aviation is the only cargo airline company that is using B757 version of cargo planes. Others are using small planes.

"We may revise the cargo projections upwards in future. But certainly not in large numbers," Dr Keskar added.

Sam CS · Post by **Sam CS** » 28 Jul 2008 22:53

He can blame whatever he wants. This is actually a good development. Mallya is finally fixing the egoistic aircraft ordering spree he went on a few years ago. Non-stops using A340-500s aren't making good money for anyone. Even airlines like Singapore, Emirates, Air Canada, etc. are dropping those or making serious compromises. Even Delta, which seems to have the most perfect ultra long haul ATL-BOM using the made-by-God 777-200LR, are hoping for a few more improvements to the aircraft so they can boost their revenues.

Mallya has 10 A380s on order (plus 10 A330s and 10 A350s, I think). He just announced a plan to use Amsterdam as Kingfisher's hub. A380s and A350s are just enough to run an excellent North America coverage using Amsterdam as the Scissor hub. The A330s would make for excellent Europe + Asia fillers. Perhaps he needs a few more of those.

Now, he can have a realistic pan-India coverage rather than pipe dreams starting in Bangalore.

Kudos for the decision, Kingfisher.

Shivani wrote:High fuel prices will be blamed, but it cannot be denied that a few government policies played key role in forcing this decision:

Not allowing Indian operators to fly abroad.

Very high cost of ATF (courtesy excise, taxes...).

Allowing Air India to survive at taxpayers expense when that company should have been broken and assets auctioned off.

Not building one decent airport in sixty years that can match Changi, Suvarnabhumi or Sepang. This would have allowed Indian airlines to compete with other International operators on Kangaroo route, not to mention other SE Asian-EU traffic.

Rajesh_MR · Post by **Rajesh_MR** » 29 Jul 2008 02:03

Took Jet Airways from BLR to SFO last week.

Good itinerary 3 hours gap at Mumbai and 1 hour at Shanghai.
Excellent plane; 777-300ER
Personal wide screen TV with wide range of English, Hindi and Regional movies and TV shows; all on demand
Courteous crew
Nice Indian cuisine
Lands in SFO at a time(~6PM) when the immigration counters are empty

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 29 Jul 2008 02:04

alright, $#it's finally appearing out of thin air. The aerial pictures of T3 of IGI are here, brought to you by SSC-India.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost. ... tcount=829

sneak...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jul 2008 08:08

is the T3 the new international one ? how many gates and capacity will it have ?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 29 Jul 2008 09:19

Singha wrote:is the T3 the new international one ? how many gates and capacity will it have ?

* 4.8 million sqft build up area
* 35 million passengers/year
* 130 checkin counters
* 74 aerobridges
* 56 travelators (moving walkways)
* 4.43km runway
* CAT IIIB

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jul 2008 11:19

sounds like everything BIAL is not

what will be the capacity of the new domestic term (the old intl one) ?
suitably muscular one hopes.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 29 Jul 2008 11:33

Couple of more facts about New Delhi's new terminal from SSC:
* Second biggest airport terminal in the world after Beijing Capital T3.
* First of three phases, each terminal of 35M passengers/year capacity, for a total 105M/year.

Rupak · Post by **Rupak** » 29 Jul 2008 11:48

Suppiah wrote: You should have said 'match Colombo' instead.

Amen to that!

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 29 Jul 2008 20:33

Some info on Delhi Airport:

Credits IndiansUnite, SSCI

Check the highlights section in this first pic. Some of this info has been posted by Suraj in one of his earlier posts above.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4748 ... mi1tc1.jpg

Renders, these are new do click on some

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9679/hok1xt6.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/8570/hok2en6.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/812/hok3fg5.jpg

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 29 Jul 2008 20:35

Credits: Indians Unite, SSCI

Some more renders, this time of interiors.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9839/hok4ie5.jpg

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/3540/hok5zt8.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7459/hok6dt3.jpg

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 29 Jul 2008 20:37

I will cross post some more info later.

suraj, done. also is posting thumbnail size images ok ?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 29 Jul 2008 22:13

Thumbnails are perfectly fine. Thanks for your quick co-operation Sumeet!

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 30 Jul 2008 00:11

So the bigger question is, with T3 Phase-I going live, what would be the combined terminal capacity of the airport?

35+20ish = 45M/yr?

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 30 Jul 2008 11:33

Some more goodies to look at...

A gallery at the IGI website -

http://www.newdelhiairport.in/page.asp? ... allery.asp

A video uploaded on Youtube - Delhi IGI Airport 2010 Plan-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cWDraMsvCU

I think a LCC terminal is also coming up, in addition to T3.

From the DIAL website.....

GMR-DIAL had unveiled its master plan for the Capital’s airport recently, which includes a completely new terminal building for both the domestic and international sections, with a capacity to handle 87 million passengers. This terminal, to be situated to the south of the existing international terminal, is to be ready by March 2010.

Before T3, a new terminal would be constructed between the existing domestic terminals 1A and 1B, to cater to the mushrooming low-cost carriers.

At present, terminal 1A is used exclusively by Indian Airlines (Indian), and 1B by the private airlines. They handle 16.2 million passengers a year, and the figure is growing at 25 per cent per annum. The proposed new LCC terminal, spread across 75,000 sq m and expected to be ready by March 2008, will alone have a capacity to handle 20 million passengers annually.

I dont know what the status of this terminal is at present, but another website calls it T6, and that it will come up where the Centaur hotel stands.

Sai.U · Post by **Sai.U** » 01 Aug 2008 04:32

House committee to probe BIAL lapses

http://deccanherald.com/Content/Aug1200 ... updatenews

The State government has decided to set up a House Committee to look into the alleged violation of terms and conditions by the Bangalore International Airport Limited ( BIAL) during the construction of the Bengaluru International Airport.
Members in the Legislative Assembly, cutting across party affiliations, on Thursday alleged that the construction work of the new airport was “substandard”.
.
.
...the new airport was worse than a bus stand. “There is no seating arrangement, public toilets and VIP lounge. It is in total disarray.