![Mad :x](./images/smilies/icon_mad.gif)
AH 64 is DDMski...not for this RFP.
IMHO, the newer Longbow Apache (LBA), AH-64D should have been RFP-ed.AHA?
No, You're not missing anything. It's the reporter that compiled that report that's missing some basic research effort. AH-64 is an out right attack helicopter with no utility capability. So it doesn't even belong in the RFP. Don't know how the reporter got that mixed up with the light utility helicopter RFP. IA and IAF want some light cargo haulers to reach the high mountains where our troops are positioned to carry supplies, medivac duties etc.lakshmic wrote:AH-64A or Bell 407 ? Are they even in the same class ? Is it DDM-itis or am I missing something ?India floats $750 mn global tender to buy choppers
The three US companies invited to submit their bids are Bell Helicopters with their Shen 407 light choppers, McDonnel Douglas with their AH-64 A and Sikorsky with their S-3000 helicopters
A dream come true for IAF
Ravi Sharma
Rookie pilots to fly the AJT in Bidar on August 4
It will help IAF take training to an advanced level
BANGALORE: An almost 25-year-old wait will come to an end on August 4 when trainee Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots at the Air Force Station in Bidar (North Karnataka) get into their Hawk Advanced Jet Trainers (AJT) cockpits and go through the paces as they attempt to become full-fledged fighter pilots.
For the IAF, the need to procure an AJT was felt way back in the early 1980s. The Indian Government signed a contract worth around $1.75 billion for the purchase of Hawks in March 2004 with the British BAE Systems. Under the contract, the IAF will procure 66 Hawk Mk 132s, of which 24 will be built in the United Kingdom by BAE Systems, and the remaining 42 being manufactured under ‘licence build’ in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).
Speaking to The Hindu Air Marshal V.R. Iyer, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Training Command, Air Force, said that the batch of rookie fighter pilots, all of whom had been commissioned into the IAF last June and were currently undergoing training, would be the first pilots in India to be trained on the Hawks.
But with delays plaguing the delivery schedule of the BAE Systems built Hawks — only 14 of the 24 aircraft have so far flown into Bidar — and with one crashing during a sortie, only 18 of the 37 pilots in the batch will be flying the Hawks.
The other pilots will fly the Kirans, which will be in service with the IAF till 2011.
According to Air Marshal Iyer, the Hawks will enable the IAF to take fighter pilot training in the IAF to a new and more advanced level. “Trainee pilots will learn various aspects of tactical fighter flying like close formation flying, air combat, weapon delivery and navigational skills in an aircraft whose avionics is as good as that in any frontline combat aircraft. Pilots will be turned out much better prepared and obviously better products.”
After completing training on the Hawks, these pilots will get posted to the IAF’s operational fighter squadrons, flying aircraft such as the MiG-21 Bison, Mirage 2000 or the Su-30 MKI.
The IAF is hoping that most of the next batch of pilots will be able to train on the Hawks since around 30 of these aircraft should be in its inventory by January 2009. HAL will be delivering the first indigenously built Hawk by the middle of August.
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/HA ... ah/340166/HAL to fly into LatAm market with Cheetah
After tasting success with its Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv’ helicopters, state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is poised to make further inroads into the Latin American market with its light helicopter Cheetah.
According to highly placed sources in the ministry of defence (MoD), “Surinam and Colombia have expressed interest in the ‘Cheetah’ helicopters.”
These countries have seen the performance of these helicopters and a team will probably travel there for the display, sources said.
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“The queries that we have received for the Latin American countries are for the civilian usage,” said sources
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Also, for the India Navy’s rotary UAVs, an agreement has already been reached with IAI of Israel for joint development, under which the conversion of the Cheetah helicopter will be done with introduction of automated controls.
“The choice of Cheetah was obvious as we have them in large numbers, all the three services use them and they are time-tested. While the contract has yet not been signed, we have started work on collection of aerodynamic data on Cheetah helicopter so that necessary flight control systems can be developed,” said officials of HAL.
To start with, two Cheetah helicopters will be converted—one in India and another in Israel. Subsequently, HAL will produce fresh Cheetah helicopters with the automatic control system in place.
LOH, that needs to be procured is in the 'light' category ~ 3 tonnes. ALH is in the medium category ~ 5.5 tonnes. That is why HAL wants to build a new LOH based on the ALH platform with reduced weight and some upgrades. AFAIK, 197 will be imported and rest will be our own LOH designed and manufactured by HAL.Luxtor wrote:No, You're not missing anything. It's the reporter that compiled that report that's missing some basic research effort. AH-64 is an out right attack helicopter with no utility capability. So it doesn't even belong in the RFP. Don't know how the reporter got that mixed up with the light utility helicopter RFP. IA and IAF want some light cargo haulers to reach the high mountains where our troops are positioned to carry supplies, medivac duties etc.lakshmic wrote: AH-64A or Bell 407 ? Are they even in the same class ? Is it DDM-itis or am I missing something ?
Along the same topic, why haven't the IA & IAF asked for our own ALH helicopters for this RFP? Maybe HAL will not be able to build so many ALHs in the short time span proposed? I think we'd be hard pressed sell any further ALHs to international customers in the future if our own armed forces don't buy them for our future needs, even though IA, IAF & IN operate around 80(?- guessing) of them currrently.
When did IAF get one of these? I wonder what equipment is in the fairing below the cockpitKakarat wrote:
From : http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6311683
India Air Force
IAI 1125 Astra
IAF Markings - but operated by the Aviation Research Center . One of the recent Air Forces Monthly carried a picture of the Astra and had some good info on ARC's fleet in the caption.Shyam_K wrote:When did IAF get one of these? I wonder what equipment is in the fairing below the cockpitKakarat wrote:
From : http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6311683
India Air Force
IAI 1125 Astra
Rahul, We definitely should. That AFM caption is a good place to start. Pictures from Airliners and JetPhotos can accompany the page.Rahul M wrote:Jagan, could you add a section on ARC assets ??
in fact, shouldn't BR carry a section on the intel agencies ??
SIPRI once carried a listing of 7 ELINT AC purchased from Israel. The System/AC was called Lancer if i rememebr correctly . Maybe its the same?The 7 aircraft for ARC were part of a 1996 contract.
Do these purchases turn up under annual defence budget?SIPRI once carried a listing of 7 ELINT AC purchased from Israel. The System/AC was called Lancer if i rememebr correctly . Maybe its the same?
There are a few B-707s listed with the ARC for "communications and training"rkhanna wrote:However i would like India operating something along the lines as UK Nimrods
Or American RiveTJoints In the Dedicated LR ELINT role.
As far as I know, the above is a large underestimation of the ARC's assets. Last time I checked (and that was some time ago so might be dated), the ARC had the likes of a single IL-76 (still not sure whether it was combined IAF/ARC or just the latter), B-707s and even a Gulfstream (now damaged beyond repair) dedicated to such Ops in addition to the types you mentioned above.sum wrote:Do these purchases turn up under annual defence budget?SIPRI once carried a listing of 7 ELINT AC purchased from Israel. The System/AC was called Lancer if i rememebr correctly . Maybe its the same?
If not, it means the fleet of ARC is a mystery and is much better than the sad picture of aging Cheetahs/Avros/Chetaks/Mi-8s being the sole fleet of ARC that wiki and other sources project....
The Indian Air Force operates a single Gulfstream III SRA , registered as VT-ENR, for ELINT duties. The aircraft is usually based at Palam Air Force Station and is targeted almost exclusively against Pakistan.
You are rightRahul M wrote:vivek, are you sure there were not more than one GS in the ARC ? I'll have to hunt old docs but I
vaguely remember there were about 2-3.
I dont think Airbus would not have any problem seeling to us anything. Also wont it be better if we use IL76 the same as for Phalcon so that we would have a commonality for maintainance not to mention Price, which would be less tahn teh Western planes which gives us an option to buy more than one platform. Just my thoughtsSingha wrote:there are tons of 737 and A320 for sale. no need to go to Unkil. we should be able to fit
our own gear - the IL76 would be having mostly domestic and israeli kit methinks.
comint efforts need stepping up against PRC and electronic orbats constantly updated.
perhaps EMB-145 more of them is the soln. just the right size and economical to fly.
Jagan,Jagan wrote:Then there is Gulfstream K2961 http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1220458&r=y
and Gulfstrea VT-ENR http://myaviation.net/search/photo_sear ... ize=medium
So were these two IL-76 aircraft in addition to the IAF 24 machines?ARC always had two Il-76s in its section besides the smaller aircraft.
In addition, I think they also take in a lot of retired (voluntary or otherwise), experienced IAF personnel IIRC.Jagan wrote:Pilots used to be deputed from the IAF on stints. I believe almost all of them were from Transport or Helicopter streams (atleast when there were helicopters).
that policy may still be continuing.
I think they were loaned from the IAF and not extra machines.vivek_ahuja wrote:So were these two IL-76 aircraft in addition to the IAF 24 machines?ARC always had two Il-76s in its section besides the smaller aircraft.
-Vivek
What do you mean by the highlighted section?asbchakri wrote:I dont think Airbus would not have any problem seeling to us anything. Also wont it be better if we use IL76 the same as for Phalcon so that we would have a commonality for maintainance not to mention Price, which would be less tahn teh Western planes which gives us an option to buy more than one platform. Just my thoughtsSingha wrote:there are tons of 737 and A320 for sale. no need to go to Unkil. we should be able to fit
our own gear - the IL76 would be having mostly domestic and israeli kit methinks.
comint efforts need stepping up against PRC and electronic orbats constantly updated.
perhaps EMB-145 more of them is the soln. just the right size and economical to fly.
PaulJI wrote:What do you mean by the highlighted section?asbchakri wrote: I dont think Airbus would not have any problem seeling to us anything. Also wont it be better if we use IL76 the same as for Phalcon so that we would have a commonality for maintainance not to mention Price, which would be less tahn teh Western planes which gives us an option to buy more than one platform. Just my thoughts
Il-76 is very expensive to operate compared to an A320 or Boeing 737, even a pre-NG 737. Used airliners should be cheaper than an Il-76, & the easy life, compared to airline use, they'd get in an elint or comint AF role would mean they'd last a very long time. For A320 or 737, the commercial availability of parts & qualified maintenance personnel is such that commonality is not an issue. There are probably as many of either in service than the combined transport fleets of the worlds air forces.
I think you're right.asbchakri wrote:I just was telling unlike Unkil they would not put any restrictions thats all
Yes - but everything is already in place right now for the Il 76. No need to do anything new. If a new platform is planned - it can be planned for a complete replacement along with the Il 76 - which will remain in service for more than a decade. A decade is a long time for avionics but a short time for a platform. We need the avionics without playing around with platforms. The IAF has gone in for the Il 76 for transport, refuelling and AEW. To me there appear to be no good reasons for changing the platform for one role.Singha wrote:being platinum grade assets like phalcon, the ARC birds (il76/a321/737) need not jump around
all over the place. two major bases in central or south india with overhaul facility is all
they'd need. could land in a place like srinagar or tezpur , top up with fuel, perform the
mission and fly directly home. a loaded 737-800 type has a endurance of 6+ hrs at
cruising speed, so thats a ample margin.
engine or avionics repair can be outsourced to one of the repair facilities coming up in
India under offset clauses & investments for both boeing (nagpur) and airbus (blr?).
a simple guard detail and locked up passenger area will ensure security. or IAF can
fund its own hanger there.
have they mentioned AESA ?? if yes, that might mean something has happened that we, in the public domain don't know of.rkhanna wrote:PS. SIPRI also says that India has bought 5 ELTA 2052 AESA radars for 5 LCA prototypes