IAF at Red Flag / Nellis AFB 2008

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Aug 2008 07:54

In the "Day 3" photograph - the MKI with a separated cone - there seems to be a F-16 next to it? Perhaps many ACs sharing the same hanger?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Aug 2008 13:51

correct. pune has similar hangers...not a hardened shelter.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Aug 2008 14:34

Anant wrote:Shiv,

While the author of the blog is of Indian ethnicity, he's an American. He works for the Moffett Field Museum. So, he has no linkage to the IAF but more so the USAF.

http://horizontalrain.com/blog/about/

Anant

That certainly explains the feeling I had that his camera is better than one tends to find with Indians.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Aug 2008 14:38

VikramS wrote:
viveks wrote:Tragedy strikes red-Flag....pilot killed...phrrrrrrrr.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080730/ap_ ... /f15_crash
http://deepbluehorizon.blogspot.com/200 ... crash.html

http://www.kxnt.com/Deceased-Nellis-Pil ... ed/2709695

The 2nd pilot was an RAF airman who survived.

The pilot killed, Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Bouley, was the leader of the Nellis' 65th Aggressor Squadron which did not participate in the next day's exercise.

Shows the risk the pilots take every time they go up.

This is really sad. Appears to be a senior man. Death means they did not have time/opportunity to eject. I am guessing takeoff/landing incident.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 02 Aug 2008 18:41

shiv wrote:
Anant wrote:Shiv,

While the author of the blog is of Indian ethnicity, he's an American. He works for the Moffett Field Museum. So, he has no linkage to the IAF but more so the USAF.

http://horizontalrain.com/blog/about/

Anant
That certainly explains the feeling I had that his camera is better than one tends to find with Indians.

That is an understatement. Sagar Pathak is shooting with a $5,000 Nikon D3 DSLR, $1,600 Nikkor 24-70mm lens and $9,000 Nikkor 600mm lens. He also owns his own single-engine airplane. He is either a young wealthy business man or is independently wealthy. Either way, he seems to be living his dream, as most of us here could not take the time off to visit the IAF at Red-Flag 08. God bless him.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 04 Aug 2008 17:35

Work up phase – IAF team gets in shape for ex Red Flag - PIB

Glory: IAF Flankers at dawn at Idaho! - Shiv Aroor

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 04 Aug 2008 19:48

Indian Air Force Deployment to Mountain Home AFB by Kedar Karmarkar - Fence Check

Neerajsoman · Post by **Neerajsoman** » 04 Aug 2008 20:12

Work up phase – IAF team gets in shape for ex Red Flag - PIB

Trust the press trust of India to spell Idaho wrong. Does anyone wanna start a newspaper? Pretty sick of reading tabloid-esque news in TOI, Rediff and the rest of those rags.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 04 Aug 2008 20:33

Kakarat wrote:Indian Air Force Deployment to Mountain Home AFB by Kedar Karmarkar - Fence Check

SU-30 MKI fighters are from No.20 "Lightnings" Squadron
Tankers are from No.78 "Valorous MARS" Squadron
Transport aircraft is from No.44 "Mighty Jets" Squadron

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 04 Aug 2008 21:54

>>Trust the press trust of India to spell Idaho wrong. Does anyone wanna start a newspaper? Pretty sick of reading tabloid-esque news in TOI, Rediff and the rest of those rags.

Neerajsoman,
If you are serious, then I have been thinking of starting a web-based news site with nationalist agenda.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Aug 2008 22:31

Kakarat wrote:
Kakarat wrote:Indian Air Force Deployment to Mountain Home AFB by Kedar Karmarkar - Fence Check
SU-30 MKI fighters are from No.20 "Lightnings" Squadron
Tankers are from No.78 "Valorous MARS" Squadron
Transport aircraft is from No.44 "Mighty Jets" Squadron

AFAIK, no 78 is the "battle cry". have they had a name change in the recent past ??

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Aug 2008 22:54

Kakarat wrote:Work up phase – IAF team gets in shape for ex Red Flag - PIB

The challenge which the IAF team faces is to adapt itself to the complex and advanced Network centricity of USAF.

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 05 Aug 2008 02:34

IAF spotted at Nellis AFB - 1st pic to be posted by Kriss22

http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index. ... 4.795.html

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 05 Aug 2008 04:05

Kakarat wrote:Indian Air Force Deployment to Mountain Home AFB by Kedar Karmarkar - Fence Check

I was looking at this pic http://www.fencecheck.com/files/bY6podR ... bzS7C4.jpg real creative of Kedar to put the part of the wing jutting into the frame. I was thinking if i was taking a pic of the same ac, would have tried to avoid all obstacles, but by putting the wing tip in, gives a whole different perspective to the photo.

Kapil · Post by **Kapil** » 05 Aug 2008 05:00

John Snow wrote:
Singha wrote:http://www.mountainhome.af.mil/shared/m ... 1C-001.jpg

anyone know what this could be? looks like a lathe or grinding machine to me.
It is CNC Horizontal multi spindle Jig boring or horizontal Machining center.
http://www.directindustry.com/prod/maki ... 61541.html

details
5-axis CNC horizontal machining center MAKINO
MAG Series

MAG Series

click on the video to see the components for aerospace being made

Notice the axis of spindle rotation.

The picture ( guruji) is multi spindle CNC horizontal machining center

Wow,
I wonder what are they doing with that at Mountain Home?
To put it in context,if Lohegaon had a machine like that,they could farm it out on Job work,increase Pune's machining capacity by 10 percent and buy themselves 2 MKIs in a year

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Aug 2008 08:35

one has to be impressed by the gigantic apron spaces at most US mil airports. few civilian
apts in India even have that much of apron. there is always room to surge in tens of
transports and a 100 fighters if need be. lineups of 3-4 squadrons in a straight line
(60-80) planes are fairly common.

massa always plans for scalability.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 05 Aug 2008 15:25

Jagan wrote: I was looking at this pic http://www.fencecheck.com/files/bY6podR ... bzS7C4.jpg real creative of Kedar to put the part of the wing jutting into the frame. I was thinking if i was taking a pic of the same ac, would have tried to avoid all obstacles, but by putting the wing tip in, gives a whole different perspective to the photo.

My basic photography sense tells me he did it to get under a shade, true it offers a better perspective. Note the shadows on the Il-78.

Added later: Seeing more carefully he has put the roundel on the aircraft in the photo. That was deliberate. Good shot Kedar boss.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 05 Aug 2008 17:03

Gunfighters and Indians - Workups for Red Flag - Day 4

This link also calls the No. 78 Squadron as “Valorous MARS”

Su-30MKI & F-16
http://horizontalrain.com/blog/wp-conte ... af_415.jpg

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 05 Aug 2008 17:37

K Mehta wrote:
Jagan wrote: I was looking at this pic http://www.fencecheck.com/files/bY6podR ... bzS7C4.jpg real creative of Kedar to put the part of the wing jutting into the frame. I was thinking if i was taking a pic of the same ac, would have tried to avoid all obstacles, but by putting the wing tip in, gives a whole different perspective to the photo.
My basic photography sense tells me he did it to get under a shade, true it offers a better perspective. Note the shadows on the Il-78.

.

yes, another thing is that its so instinctive to center the aircraft in the middle of the frame - but to catch it at the bottom of the frame and have the wing / roundel on the top is deliberate.

Walker · Post by **Walker** » 05 Aug 2008 18:08

Is that an MKI patch on the guy in the middle?

MukulMohanty · Post by **MukulMohanty** » 05 Aug 2008 18:25

Yes, it is. They swapped patches when they went for runs in each other's crafts...

Vaibhav · Post by **Vaibhav** » 05 Aug 2008 20:27

Did anyone saw "Bislari" goes international

sum · Post by **sum** » 05 Aug 2008 21:03

Kakarat wrote:Gunfighters and Indians - Workups for Red Flag - Day 4

This link also calls the No. 78 Squadron as “Valorous MARS”

Su-30MKI & F-16
http://horizontalrain.com/blog/wp-conte ... af_415.jpg

The F-16 at the bottom sure has a weird pattern...Dont recall such a pattern before!!!!
Is there any significance of that pattern(as in specific to maritime or desert ops etc)?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 05 Aug 2008 21:07

Kapil wrote:
John Snow wrote: It is CNC Horizontal multi spindle Jig boring or horizontal Machining center.
http://www.directindustry.com/prod/maki ... 61541.html

details
5-axis CNC horizontal machining center MAKINO
MAG Series

MAG Series

click on the video to see the components for aerospace being made

Notice the axis of spindle rotation.

The picture ( guruji) is multi spindle CNC horizontal machining center
Wow,
I wonder what are they doing with that at Mountain Home?
To put it in context,if Lohegaon had a machine like that,they could farm it out on Job work,increase Pune's machining capacity by 10 percent and buy themselves 2 MKIs in a year

Most likely they are used to refurbish, Hydraulic system blocks which migh have spools (pistons) moving in Al alloy blocks suchas as servo feed back circuits. Sometimes they might even use to rebuild worn parts but building up suitable meatl by welding or metal deposits and then regrind them to specs.

All marine ships and war ships alo have leobrate machine tool room to manufacture replacement parts while on missions /voyages.

chitre · Post by **chitre** » 05 Aug 2008 22:43

sum wrote: The F-16 at the bottom sure has a weird pattern...Dont recall such a pattern before!!!!
Is there any significance of that pattern(as in specific to maritime or desert ops etc)?

the F-16 is from an Aggressor Squadron, IIRC all US Aggressor Squadrons are painted in camo similar to the RuAF jets.

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 05 Aug 2008 22:55

Jagan wrote:
K Mehta wrote: My basic photography sense tells me he did it to get under a shade, true it offers a better perspective. Note the shadows on the Il-78.

.
yes, another thing is that its so instinctive to center the aircraft in the middle of the frame - but to catch it at the bottom of the frame and have the wing / roundel on the top is deliberate.

Finally registered on this site.

Yes - the picture in question was taken deliberately, with the roundel on top. I was lying down in the shade as the second tanker was taxing on the ramp, and went all the way from zoom to wide, and checked the shot, and found the ungainly wing on top, but on second thought - since the roundel was there, took the shot. Shade was a primary reason, the roundel an after thought. Also, it kind of gives a frame feeling to the photo on the top, with the ground leveling it out at bottom.

Thanks all for your comments. It was a treat to shoot our boys, at Mountain Home AFB.

B/R
Kedar

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Aug 2008 22:58

kudos kedar, superb pics !!
/hats off !!

and welcome to BRF.

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 05 Aug 2008 22:59

chitre wrote:
sum wrote: The F-16 at the bottom sure has a weird pattern...Dont recall such a pattern before!!!!
Is there any significance of that pattern(as in specific to maritime or desert ops etc)?
the F-16 is from an Aggressor Squadron, IIRC all US Aggressor Squadrons are painted in camo similar to the RuAF jets.

The Aggressor Sqns color up like the camo jets. But since this unit, 18th AGRS is based in Alaska, they have the arctic camo scheme on couple of the jets.

- Kedar

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 05 Aug 2008 23:03

Rahul M wrote:kudos kedar, superb pics !!
/hats off !!

and welcome to BRF.

Thanks, Rahul. Looking forward to an active part in the future.

I will be going down to Nellis, next week.

B/R
Kedar

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 05 Aug 2008 23:13

Kedar very nice to meet in BRF. Your articles and pictures are indeed very nicely done. Apart from all the stuff that you've posted on your site, please share other info, juicy tid bits with us all.
regards and keep up the good work

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Aug 2008 23:33

Kedar,

Welcome to BRF! Absolutely love your shots - keep 'em coming!

Most of us can only dream of getting the opportunity to shoot such an event with the IAF.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 06 Aug 2008 05:56

Kedar mate awesome pics...thank u for sharing em with us

Quick question to the Gurus:

I have always wondered what does the F-16 represent in the Aggressor squadrons. For example I know that the F-5s represent the lighter Migs such as the 21 and the F-15 plays heavies such as the flanker and fulcrum. What exactly does the F-16 play an aggressor role as??????

Misraji · Post by **Misraji** » 06 Aug 2008 06:37

Anand Barve wrote: I have always wondered what does the F-16 represent in the Aggressor squadrons. For example I know that the F-5s represent the lighter Migs such as the 21 and the F-15 plays heavies such as the flanker and fulcrum. What exactly does the F-16 play an aggressor role as??????

Noobie answer. Isn't F-16 pretty close to Mig-29 in performance???

Here are snaps of F-16 markings in aggressor roles:

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_aggressors-num1.html

One of them is listed as similar to Mig-23 and there are a couple later similar to Su-27.

Regards,
Ashish

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 06 Aug 2008 07:30

Thanks for the Noobie answer "Misraji" however I was looking for a more specific answer and thats why I specifically asked for the "Gurus".

I am well aware of the F-16 representing erstwhile soviet union/late russian 3rd and 4th gen fighter jets. However I wanted to know about more what other platforms do they play/represent in Red Flags. What about chiccom jets????
Also the F-16s used as aggressors were using Block 20s traditionally however lately they have recieved block 30s-such as the 18th Aggressor squadron which recently sent its Block 40s to Kunsan and got Block 30s in return. My point is that is are these to represent the newer enemy jets/higher threat spectrum (J-10s,J-17s,etc) in terms of advanced avionics.

And as far as perfomance parameters are concerned:
Mig 29:
Maximum speed: Mach 2.4 - 2,445 km/h (1,518 mph)
Range: 700 km combat, 2,900 km ferry (430 mi / 1,800 mi)
Service ceiling 18,013 m / 59 060 ft (59,100 ft)
Rate of climb: initial 330 m/s average 109 m/s 0-6000 m [38] (65,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 442 kg/m² (90.5 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 1.13

F 16:
Maximum speed:
At sea level: Mach 1.2 (915 mph, 1,460 km/h)
At altitude: Mach 2+ (1,500 mph, 2,414 km/h)
Combat radius: 340 NM (295 mi, 550 km) on a hi-lo-hi mission with six 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs
Ferry range: >2,100 NM (2,420 NM, 3,900 km)
Service ceiling >50,000 ft (15,239 m)
Rate of climb: 50,000 ft/min (254 m/s)
Wing loading: 88.2 lb/ft² (431 kg/m²)
Thrust/weight: For F100 engine: 0.898, For F110: 1.095

I know that the perfomances have been similar however with newer engines on both the fulcrum and the falcon plus advanced (lighter) avionics on both would affect current perfomance in most regimes.
All I wanted to know was the view of some the more "senior" contributors here.

Regards

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 06 Aug 2008 10:57

kedar boss,
really nice pics. One problem though, how do we access your photo album of the airbase?
Keep clicking.

Radman · Post by **Radman** » 06 Aug 2008 18:59

http://www.nellis.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123109378

this is unfortunate, but the stark reality of advanced realistic training.

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 06 Aug 2008 21:18

K Mehta wrote:kedar boss,
really nice pics. One problem though, how do we access your photo album of the airbase?
Keep clicking.

Thanks much, all the images will be there around first week of September, open to all.

B/R
Kedar

nred · Post by **nred** » 06 Aug 2008 23:40

Vaibhav wrote:Did anyone saw "Bislari" goes international

I have a theory, probably when USAF was in India they "arrogantly" refused local water and just drank US made bottled water, to possibly avoid Dilli Belly. This possibly angered Indian Officers and then they probably wanted to emulate the same and avoid Vegas belly.

Or, nothing tastes better than Bisleri and you gotta do everything possible to avoid home sickness. Kingfisher, please!

anupam · Post by **anupam** » 07 Aug 2008 06:37

Anant wrote..."Was under the impression that one of their jobs was to keep snooping reporters and Amrikans far away from our secret babies... "

What makes you think that the information is not available from within India for some Money already ?or it has been sold already ?

I see several negative and postive viewpoints but folks if the IAF and the Gov't of India has sent their elite to participate after having spent almost 25 million USD? wouldn't one would have thought about all the factors that might be harmful to the IAF or the Indian Gov't such as losing valuable time and resources spent on CUSTOMIZING the SU30-MKI in India?

As far as war is concerned, there has always been a struggle and effort on identifying the opponent/neighbor's Military technology prowess. Nothing anyone can say on this forum can stop from the information being leaked out or stolen or sold out. WWI and WWII and the Cold War are the most recent examples where the technology was knowingly/unknowingly/willingly/deliberately made available to someone other than the Inventor.

anupam · Post by **anupam** » 07 Aug 2008 06:42

Anant wrote:Shiv,

While the author of the blog is of Indian ethnicity, he's an American. He works for the Moffett Field Museum. So, he has no linkage to the IAF but more so the USAF.

http://horizontalrain.com/blog/about/

Anant

So ? what difference does it make ? and how can one be so sure that he is purely interested in Photography and not chosing sides (IAF or USAF) ?