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Stan_Savljevic wrote:India's contingent for Beijing08 and my predictions on how they ll fare.
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Final tally {My prediction}: 2 - 1 - 1 {I will be happy to be proven to be super conservative }
Smoking strong stuff are we? 2-1-1 is a pipe dream. I would take 0-1-1 as a good performance and 0-0-2 as a decent performance and 0-0-1 as par for the course and 0-0-0 as chaltha hai we are like that only.
Like every squad in the past, we sent this squad too with a warm send off and no matter what the final medals tally will be, they will be received with a warm reception too. We need to cut back on some of this warmth and use a cold shoulder technique for send offs. Returning medal winners must be feted but all others flogged in public for the collosal waste of national resources.
All Bharatiya jan kare pukar "Bharat mata ki shaan hai Abhinav Bindra yeh naam."
Stan saar I am ready to eat a generous helping of humble pie ( )based on my previous post on Jul 25, 2008. While we are all savouring this sweet moment in our sports history can you pass me some of the good stuff from your stash. Looks like yours was not a pipe dream after all. Next time around I will try to keep a little more faith in our sportsmen/women. Before this win I wanted to put an end to the annual wasted spending in Indian national sports resources but this one win will hopefully inspire our next generation to seek their place on the podium watching the rising Tiranga to a background score of Jana Gana Mana.
As I said earlier, Indians had stopped winning any medals from '84-'92. Then '96 onwards we started. The mind goes to economic liberalization and connected benefits to the Nation.
SwamyG wrote:As I said earlier, Indians had stopped winning any medals from '84-'92. Then '96 onwards we started. The mind goes to economic liberalization and connected benefits to the Nation.
Could poor Vitamin D production, exposure to excessive sunlight along with coastal living play a role in our usually poor sports performance. Apologies to Vivek Sreenivasan for borrowing his postulaton on the the Personal Health and Fitness thread.
There are certain fields where India and Indians or for that matter Chinese or Whites are genetically disadvantaged. Take long distance running. It's the East Africans who win from countries that have no money Kenya, Somalia, Ethopia. Look at the top 10 in most long distance events. It's dominated by East African origin people. They win marathons all over the world and many run barefoot. Genes. There are possibly 20-30 medals to be won in these events.
Take sprint events the advantage belongs to Africans again but specifically those of West African origin. Look at the Team US sprints teams. Full black line up. Same with Canada and UK. It's only an exception you'll find a Chinese, Russian or Asian (like Milkha) lining up in the final 6. There are approximately another 30 medals or so to be taken in the sprint events.
India has already frindly relations with Africa. It has a number of students from these countries who live and study here. Why not scout for talent in sprint and long distance events in these countries and buy them off aka IPL style. Why not start now so that by 2012 we can add some 30-40 medals through imports?
China has commenced Project 119 by whipping it's own citizens, why can't we achieve it by importing the medal winners. Imagine adding 40 medals from such imports. After all at the end of the day we'd like to see our total medal tally in 3 digits. Meanwhile we'll keep reducing the gap and have our own stars aka Bindra. JMT
Coming to think of it, if we throw money IPL style we could get fully trained and drilled Panda athletes, TT and Baddy, Gymnasts by the container. Another 40 medals to target by buying them off.
Last edited by harbans on 11 Aug 2008 21:27, edited 1 time in total.
My vote and pride would be more with home grown athletes than buying it from other countries. Where there is a Will there is a Way, we can surely get folks right from India to make us all feel happy.
Stan guru,
In which other (remaining) disciplines do you see us doing well??
Do you still stand by the 2-1-1 formula( after 3 days of the olympics and most of the shooting done with a medal to show)?
Swamy Ji it will be interesting to see how much Percent black athletes contribute to the US/ UK medal tally. Compare it with the percentage population. Jaipur will cheer as loudly whether Shane Warne takes a wicket or Vikram Rana. Ultimately we want to see the medal tally reading India: 60 G; 44S; 37 B. Thats what matters.
yvijay wrote:Did you hear how, the chinese announcer spelled the Indian name as "Yindoo" or "Hindoo" something? Quite interesting. I think it's same as in hindi we call china as "cheen".
Yes, the Chinese word for India is 'Yin Du'. They have a convulted mechanism for naming countries; the US is Mei Guo, which means 'beautiful land'. Their own country is called Zhong Guo ('middle land'). Japan is Ri Ben, which the Japanese pronounce as 'Nippon'. Our dear western neighbours are called Ba Ji Si Tan
Harbans ji, you might be right; and indeed some folks might be happy to see golds that way. But me will be happy with handful of medals earned by deshi putrs and putris onlee. Pride is emotional; and I like it that way
Congratulations Bindra!!! You have done it despite Sports Authority of India.
I am sorry for my earlier lashing out at fellow Indians for not being competitive enough in the real sports.
Let me try to put in perspective what it takes to win gold in Olympics.
Abhinav Bindra is a nephew of I.S. Bindra (remember BCCI secretary from Punjab? who got created the Stadium in Mohali)
He belongs to a very rich family, a family that can get him following
1. No worries about earning money to live.
2. Access to best sports medicine from world (doctors, from Europe, USA, etc).
3. Access to the best latest guns and pellets without having to show receipts to SAI babu.
4. Having a personal shooting Range for Air Rifle at the backyard of his house.
now compare this with our boxers.
In the recent olympics., Puglist Dinesh wears the shoes that are size 7 but SAI gave him size 9 natually he was slower and thus lost his bout.
Another boxer was given shoe size which are 8 while he wears 9., on top of it he gets the gloves which are for same hand. Not to speak of Monika debacle What gives?
Prior to olympics These pugilists were practicing at Patiala without any electercity. This is what they should be doing.
1. Regularly watching the moves on TV of their opponents and chalking out their weaknesses.
2. Enough deep Sleep, good food and 8 hours of workout.
3. International quality gear and Respect from their peers as well as Coaches.
4. SAI should have arranged Interviews on TV channels about their bouts, etc. (TVs should stop Salman and SRK and focus on real heroes)
All Babus of Sports Authority, Suresh Kalmadi and Randhir Singh should be put behind bars with charge of treason for such trivial things (throw in KPS gill too).
As Ashok Malhotra correct says on TV that the IAS Babus of SAI do not respect the athletes.
Well!!! May Waheguru give Bharat more such Athletes who compete on their own despite SAI.
SBajwa wrote:
May Waheguru give Bharat more such Athletes who compete on their own despite SAI.
This is perhaps the only way for our athletes to be successful: not having to rely on SAI / GOI at all. What gets me is that these lowlifes are now falling over each other in trying to take credit for A.B.'s success.
And Bindra might have had the money but the fact remains that importing equiment is very excruciating process, though less so for 'top-shooters' than beginners. These procedural roadblocks created by IAS babus play their part in keeping the Indian athletes down.
Winning at the world level takes money, and plenty of it. It also takes a very focussed coaching system that keeps up with the latest in the sport and strives to stay ahead. While the likes of SAI will not change in a hurry, we do have the MCT and OGQ, among others, who are worthy replacements. Bindra was associated with OGQ I believe - which means within a few years they have producted what SAI could not in 60 years - get us a non-hockey Gold.
I am waiting for Raja Bose's update on the MCT/OGQ funding contact information. I for one will be happy to contribute at least a few hundred $s to them annually. Does anyone know how such organizations can be treated as tax deductible (for US NRIs in this case) ? I'm sure that would get a lot of people to contribute.
I would not consider this 'wasting' money. Success in sports builds a lot of intangible capabilities - a stronger, fitter citizenry and greater national cohesiveness, for one.
In my email to OGQ I have also asked them if their contributions are tax deductible for US. But even if it is not, as long as they have a safe payment system I will contribute. I hope they reply soon and also I suggested to them that they need to look to NRIs for more contribution by making their site more NRI-friendly. Even a weak dollar is 40:1 to the rupee and an average NRI (esp. in the US) is financially much better off than his lot back in India...after all when is the boast of being the richest ethnic group in massaland going to be of help.
I am still a student but I think I can afford to contribute $100.- (ofcourse it is peanuts but every little effort helps). Depending on buffoons like the ones who sit in SAI and other GOI committees has only dragged us down. I am sure if we export SAI and its Babus to US or China....by 2012 their medal tally will go down to 0. Reading that description of the boxing fiasco just makes me incredulous....those shoes need to be taken from aforementioned boxer and be used to beat those fat cat babus responsible for it.
Suraj wrote:Does anyone know how such organizations can be treated as tax deductible (for US NRIs in this case) ? I'm sure that would get a lot of people to contribute.
I would not consider this 'wasting' money. Success in sports builds a lot of intangible capabilities - a stronger, fitter citizenry and greater national cohesiveness, for one.
I would not consider this 'wasting' money. Success in sports builds a lot of intangible capabilities - a stronger, fitter citizenry and greater national cohesiveness, for one.
and better entertainment (than watching fake actors on screen), ECONOMY (Increased Cash Flow), greater respect in world and real life heroes.
My Macau friend was talking about India winning the first Gold and such. I asked her if somebody mentioned it to her. She said no, she heard it in the news, and she added lots of people were talking about it.
I guess we should not be averse to players of foreign players representing India, to me anyone
who has accepted India as his/her country is a citizen ,a very good analogy would be Indians working in academics,research and other fields in US who have taken up American citizenship .
Having said that in the context of the discussion we have lot more to achieve in the field of sports and even socio-economically for people around the world to consider India as a option to settle and earn a living be it sports or any other field.
East Bengal ,MohunBagan , Salgaokar and Churchill Bros do have players from Africa and even Latin America.
Congratulations Abhinav. It was great to see him on the podium, with the tricolor going up and the national anthem playing. Made my day - I did not see the 1980 Olympics when this last happened and have longed to see such a day ever since 1984 when I started watching the Olympics.
Congratulations are also due to Saina Nehwal for an excellent game under pressure. She played the best game of her career when it was necessary. If she makes it past the Indonesian (who is ranked 21st against Saina's 15th) in the quarters, she will win a bronze medal for sure and can give it her best to win Gold.
Anup Sridhar was looking in good touch, but has unfortunately crashed out. Looking forward to medals in tennis. Are there any other medal hopefuls this time?
BTW, while the swimmers are not in contention for medals, they looked good. They are young and seem to have potential. They should be given the best training possible so as to generate medal winners in future games, including the Commonwealth Games and the Asiads.
It doesn't help that DD Sports, the Indian government-run channel broadcasting the Games, makes some unusual spectator choices: The U.S.-China basketball game, one of the highlights so far, was frequently interrupted for women's judo, even though the judo featured no Indians.
So what, they want DD to show just few core sports like NBC?
SwamyG wrote:My Macau friend was talking about India winning the first Gold and such. I asked her if somebody mentioned it to her. She said no, she heard it in the news, and she added lots of people were talking about it.
SwamyG wrote:My Macau friend was talking about India winning the first Gold and such. I asked her if somebody mentioned it to her. She said no, she heard it in the news, and she added lots of people were talking about it.
talking what about it exactly, are you aware ?
Zhu's crying on the podium got a lot of press in the Chinese media, most of it sympathetic, knowing how much pressure these folks bear from the state to win, no matter what. Multiple Chinese websites had the pic of him in tears on the podium as the front page news picture within an hour, as I happened to see from a Chinese friend's computer. The guy was the reigning Olympic champion and world #1, while Bindra, though reighing world champion (he won the quadrennial event in 2006), was world #17. Zhu's defeat was stunning, since he was 'expected' to win, as multiple Xinhua articles state before and during the Olympics, leading to the event.
Bindra got a lot of attention for his performance and his composure afterward, and there are articles from everywhere - S.America, Africa, and of course countries bordering China, who it appears are struck that an Indian guy apparently came out of nowhere to take down a highly favoured Chinese in such dramatic fashion. There are a bunch of articles now about how Zhu 'won hearts even in defeat' etc. Interesting stuff...
This is new India. Indians are standing up to challenges and we will see more of this. I just pray that Media,Babus,politicains and filmwallah just leave Bindra alone and give him time to improve his performance. We Indians are overimmotional and tend to Bhagwanify the good-doer........thus distrating him or her from main task...........as happened to Sania Mirza. Does anybody have link to Amitabh Bachhans "Two India debate".
An opportunity lost
Harcharan SinghPosted online: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 at 0016 hrs Print EmailHow the P&S Bank missed sponsoring Abhinav
With my nose buried in files early on Monday, a colleague knocked at my door and urged me to take a look at the TV. “India has got its first Olympic gold. What are you doing with these files?” he asked complainingly. When I read the name Abhinav Bindra, preceded by the phrase “gets India her first Olympic gold”, I went down memory lane to circa 1998.
As I was the general manager of the Punjab and Sind Bank, the then teenaged lad came to meet me with his grandfather from Chandigarh. “He is a promising marksman. We were looking for sponsorship so that his talent can get a boost,” said the elderly Sikh gentleman. Since I also happen to belong to Chandigarh, I had heard about this upcoming shooter who studied at the School for Boys there. I immediately felt connected to him and his cause. “Let me check with my boss for sponsorship,” I said and went to meet B.D. Narang, the executive director. When I conveyed the idea to him, he didn’t feel as enthused about Abhinav as I was. “See, we have already sponsored the hockey team. So let it be...” was his rather dampening reply. I continued pestering him about the young lad. Unfortunately, it didn’t work. Disappointed, I told the duo that I could try for some private sponsorship but that would amount to merely less than half of the requirement. The elderly gentleman was wise enough to understand the state of affairs and gracefully left my cabin after sharing a cup of tea with me.
Today, 10 years later, I lament the loss on behalf of the P&S Bank. Before hoardings and TV slots go awash with Abhinav’s triumphant pictures, the bank could have proudly announced that they had patronised the boy when he was a “nobody”. The sad truth is that, in India, nothing less than cricket qualifies for a sport or warrants patronage. I fathom all these years later that my boss might not have denied Abhinav a few lakh rupees had it been a team sport.
However, I feel proud that a young boy from my city has done what no one in the history of this great nation could do. This once again underscores two ideas: individual sports are in no way less than team sports unlike what we Indians feel; and that the onus of taking India forward is on the youth.
I was so excited to see him getting Gold and the national anthem playing in background. Wish i would have been there to see it.
I am surprised to see Reporters on TV channels, talking while the National anthem is playing, what kind of respect they have for the country. They should have been silent for those 52 seconds. Damm Media...just looking for masala .... What channel is it ?
Next time one is around the National Stadium/India Gate area in New Delhi, can someone do a favour to our country and hang a garland of chappals and dried gobar around the Sports Authority of India signboard there. If one encounters a babu/neta, please do the needful around his neck also. Just to show our unabashed appreciation to those stalwart visionaries for their role in India's victories in the Olympics both past and present!
Rahul: I think she implied that it is in News everywhere.
BTW, the politicians are at it again. Karunanidhi announces Rs5 Lakhs to Bindra. I would be surprised if MuKa even knew who Bindra was . If States wanted to show appreciation then here is an idea from me. {yeah, I accept thanks in words}: Create a trust or scholarship in the name of Abhinav Bindra. Invite Bindra to inaugurate for the first time. Use it for one kid for 5 years.
On second thoughts, I am sure reservation, quotas, bribing etc would come into picture.
Indians have huge, huge, huge potential in individual sporting events like Swiming, Judo, Tennis, Badminton, Archery, Shooting, boxing, weightlifting and Wrestling. But what these athletes need is constant exposure to their competitors around the world.
They need to be able to travel and compete all over the world and not just in SAF and Asiad.
They need latest training methods.
They need latest sports medicine doctors (Do we have these in India?)
They need good psychologists as well as psychiatrists to keep them going., an access to Internet will help as they can logon to BR as well as other areas for quality education and support.
Doesn't look like Col Rathore will finish in the medal bracket this time.. he's had a bad start in the double trap quals: Men's Double Trap Qualification
At Athens, he had scored a 43 in the 2nd round, but scored strongly in rounds 1 and 3, as well as the final. He'll need to repeat that to have any hope of making the final this time.
Keep Bindra away from the swooning bollywood bimbos.
The media should not only celebrate Bindra's achievement but also focus on how the govt structure should be revamped in identifying talent at early stages and nurturing them through.
yvijay wrote:Did you hear how, the chinese announcer spelled the Indian name as "Yindoo" or "Hindoo" something? Quite interesting. I think it's same as in hindi we call china as "cheen".
Also, I wanted to ask what's the suit Abhinav was wearing, when he was shooting. What's the function of that suit ?
it seems the tughlaqabad shooting range has not been updated since 1982. it
is a shambles per Toi report. the officials there were honest that nobody can
train there and hope to win medals. they expressed the hope it would be upgraded for 2010 commonwealth games.
in shooting my tip is on the italian francesco taking gold. al maktoum and russel
are there too but lower down.
}
)based on my previous post on Jul 25, 2008. While we are all savouring this sweet moment in our sports history can you pass me some of the good stuff from your stash. Looks like yours was not a pipe dream after all. Next time around I will try to keep a little more faith in our sportsmen/women. Before this win I wanted to put an end to the annual wasted spending in Indian national sports resources but this one win will hopefully inspire our next generation to seek their place on the podium watching the rising Tiranga to a background score of Jana Gana Mana.
Reading that description of the boxing fiasco just makes me incredulous....those shoes need to be taken from aforementioned boxer and be used to beat those fat cat babus responsible for it.
