Caucasus Crisis

[Singha]

if indeed the Ru intends a thunder run through Tbilsi, I think it would be barely a
day's work with the georgians running east as fast as they can. its pretty much a
'open city'.

maybe the local commanders heard of the rich shops and markets in Tbilsi
compared to a hamlet like gori and decided it was worth looting and burning
the place down in true mongol/tatar/cossack style.

[amol.p]

Russian military moves towards Tbilisi in defiance of Nicolas Sarkozy's peace deal

A column of 70 Russian military vehicles, including military trucks with anti-aircraft guns and artillery as well as armoured personnel carriers, sped down the road to Tbilisi fluttering Russian flags.

Earlier, as the EU announced plans to send peacekeeping troops to monitor the ceasefire, Russian troops patrolled Gori, destroying an empty Georgian military base in the frontline Georgian town and setting up a checkpoint on the road to Tbilisi.

Civilians in Gori today claimed they had been shot at by Russian soldiers and South Ossetian snipers, who local residents said have been attacking villages outside the town. Georgian troops pulled back from the town of Gori earlier this week.

Georgia has also lost its last stronghold in another separatist province, Abkhazia, overnight as its troops withdrew from the Kodori Gorge.

Russian-backed separatist forces took advantage of the Georgian military's collapse to attack Kodori.

More than 100 Russian military vehicles entered the gorge on Tuesday forcing the Georgian retreat.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -deal.html

[Singha]

it seems the column turned into a side road for a abandoned mil base.

shouting tbilsi tbilsi was just psyops to incite more panic.

[John Snow]

Where is Rice when we need the serving most?
Russian expert that she is.

I tell you there is hole in the foggy bottom

[Raju]

Russians move 2 SS-21 Tactical Nuke Ballistic Missile Launchers into South Ossetia

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d43_1218582627

Col. Sam Gardiner notes, in an interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now, Russia has deployed tactical nuclear weapons to South Ossetia. The SS-21 Missile launchers are relatively weak compared to bombs that have already been used against Georgia by the Russian air force. However, this move does indicate Russia is potentially upping the game from a conventional weapons war to a tactical nuclear weapons war.

[vina]

GoonBoss Shaakashvili (of course he also claimed to have shot down 18,000,000 Russian planes and 270,000,000 Russian tanks and is winning the war). The American training at Fort Benning or wherever they train these foreign tinpot Harvard dictators, seems to include the classic textbook "Propetic War Reporting" by Field Marshal Yahya Khan.

Saar. Unfortunately Haarbird has nothing to do with this particular gent. According to his page in wiki Mikhail Saakashvili alma mater are listed at Kiev Univ, your bugbear Peepur's Lepubric of Corumbia Univ -Law School (LLM) and Pee Yechh Dee at Georgetown.

[John Snow]

where is Johaan when we need our correct history lessons.
Wher is im Dr. Tim to give his perspective on emerging democracies in Caucasus?

Hillary C is emerging into the hills of Denver with her own war Caucuses.

Its war between real Caucasian and a colored candidate. (mr green is coloured too)

Obama is under seige from Caucasian wars on two fronts.

[NRao]

Georgian president: 'There is no cease-fire'

That is what sleeplessness can do to you.

So,....................back to square one.

[NRao]

Hmmmmm..................................

Back to Boston, MA.

Winners and losers after Georgia conflict

[Gerard]

IPRI says to Sweden's TV4 that they believe this is a Russian SS-21 (OTR-21) missile believed to have been used to deploy cluster munitions by the way the missile now looks. Likely shot from abkhazia into the port city P'ot'i.

[Gerard]

That is what sleeplessness can do to you.

He summoned a BBC reporter at 3 am to interview him in an underground bunker.
Shades of Yahya...

[enqyoob]

vina: U r rite. Understandable, though, ne c'est pas, to associate Saakashvili with Harvard, given his genocidal proclivities a la Kissinger? My source for the Harvard connection was an article from Britain, that should have told me right there, that it was false.

From Encyclopaedia Britannica (more lies, probably, but entertaining):

Saakashvili graduated from the law faculty of Kiev (Ukraine) University’s Institute of International Relations and continued his education with graduate studies in France, Italy, and The Netherlands and at Columbia University, New York City. From 1993 to 1995 he worked for a New York law firm. Saakashvili returned to Georgia in 1995 at the invitation of Zurab Zhvania, then chairman of the Union of Citizens of Georgia (SMK), and was elected to Parliament in November 1995 on the SMK ticket. From 1995 to 1998 he served as chairman of Parliament’s Committee on Legal Affairs and lobbied unsuccessfully for faster and more comprehensive reforms. In August 1998 he was elected head of the SMK faction in Parliament.

In October 2000 Saakashvili was appointed justice minister and set about reforming the legal system and improving prison conditions. Fueling the reputation for populism that he had acquired as a parliamentarian, he also solicited popular support for his crackdown on perceived high-level corruption. In August 2001 Saakashvili came into direct opposition with President Shevardnadze and resigned unexpectedly after a mysterious burglary at his home. He was reelected to Parliament in a by-election in 2001, and in November he declared his open opposition to Shevardnadze and founded the National Movement. Saakashvili was subsequently elected chairman of Tbilisi’s city council. In that post he raised pensions, donated school textbooks, and personally helped repair dilapidated residential buildings.

On Nov. 3, 2003, the incumbent leadership announced that For a New Georgia, the pro-Shevardnadze bloc, was set to win the previous day’s parliamentary election. Saakashvili, together with Zhvania and Parliament speaker Nino Burdjanadze, launched protests in Tbilisi and other cities against the perceived falsification of the vote and called for Shevardnadze’s resignation. On November 22, Saakashvili and a group of supporters occupied the Parliament building unopposed. Shevardnadze fled the building, and he formally announced his resignation the following day. On Jan. 4, 2004, elections were held to replace Shevardnadze, with Saakashvili winning 96 percent of the vote. He immediately sought solutions for Georgia’s manifold problems by appointing a new slate of government officials and attacking endemic corruption. Most important, however, he focused on keeping the country together in the face of secessionist movements in Georgia’s ethnic republics of Abkhazia, Ajaria, and South Ossetia—a course of action that often led him into conflict with Russian Pres. Vladimir Putin, who supported separatists in those regions.
Elizabeth Fuller

Saakashvili was aided early in his tenure as president by his obvious popularity, his youth and vigour, and his international profile, but a series of civil rights abuses and an increasing sense of authoritarianism fueled a growing opposition movement. Irakli Okruashvili, a former defense minister in Saakashvili’s government, founded the Movement for United Georgia in 2007 and began making direct accusations against Saakashvili. Okruashvili was subsequently arrested (he was later released on bail and left the country), and opposition protests erupted in late 2007. On Nov. 2, 2007, some 50,000 people gathered outside the Parliament building in Tbilisi to call for Saakashvili’s resignation. Protests continued until November 7, when riot police were deployed to disperse the crowds and Saakashvili declared a 15-day nationwide state of emergency (though it was lifted the following week). After calling for early elections, he stepped down as president on Nov. 25, 2007. He subsequently won the presidential election held on Jan. 5, 2008, but by a significantly smaller majority than he had in 2004. Though opposition groups contested the election as flawed, its results were supported by international monitors, (probably sent by Cheney and Poodle) and Saakashvili began his second term as president on January 20. Parliamentary elections were held in late May 2008, with Saakashvili’s United National Movement winning a majority of the seats.

Try Googling the opposition types mentioned here, like Okruashvili, 4 updates on Georgian "democracy".

[enqyoob]

this is a Russian SS-21 (OTR-21) missile believed to have been used to deploy cluster munitions by the way the missile now looks

Is that what it is, or is it a Georgian SAM? The damage to the car is simply because the spent aft portion fell on it.

[Igorr]

Graphical Content warning - Viewer discretion advised

Pictures of Georgian dead soldiers:
http://noviny.narod.ru/A0001899.html

[Singha]

pls include a graphic content warning.

they were felled by artillery shelling, the trees are all broken. sad that the
madman in charge sent these young people to their deaths.

shakashvilli should be captured in a raid and tried as a war criminal for
causing so many deaths on both sides. some of his jarnails too.

[Singha]

the western part of georgia seems essentially to have been abandoned
in the rush toward tbilisi.

TBILISI, Aug 12 (Reuters) - Georgia withdrew its forces from a disputed gorge in breakaway Abkhazia on Tuesday after Abkhaz rebels advanced into the area, a fresh setback for Tbilisi after it pulled its troops out of South Ossetia.

"We removed everything we had there, police and civilians," Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili told Reuters.

He said the upper Kodori gorge was entirely in Russian and Abkhaz hands.

Georgia has accused Russia of aiding the Abkhaz forces, after Moscow poured 9,000 troops into the west Georgian region as fighting raged between Russian and Georgian forces in breakaway South Ossetia further east.

Utiashvili said about 600 police officers had been stationed in the gorge. It is the only part of Abkhazia controlled by Tbilisi.

The Abkhaz separatists said they had pushed the Georgians from the area.

"Units from the Abkhaz military have completed an operation to push out the Georgian army ... from the upper part of the Kodori gorge," a spokesman for Abkhazia's self-styled president, Sergei Bagapsh, was quoted by Interfax news agency as saying.

[Surya]

Poor men - Battlefield death takes away every bit of dignity - which barring the jihadis and puki army - everyone else deserves.

[Kati]

Pictures of Georgian dead soldiers:
http://noviny.narod.ru/A0001899.html

Gory pics indeed.
How were they killed? Artillary? or looks like missiles from air. Some of the bodies have been
cut into two. War is tragic.

Is there any pic of the ossatians killed by the US-Isreali trained georgian commando GOONS?

[John Snow]

Now do folks understand who was instigating Mushy to do Kargil down hill skiing?

The way the georgian leader is crying west mislead him, west responsible etc etc

[enqyoob]

Is there any pic of the ossatians killed by the US-Isreali trained georgian commando GOONS?

There were, at the beginning. I remember one showing a long line of civilian dead bodies on a ridge, with one woman going down the line searching for her loved ones. Obviously included women and children. They seemed to have been made to stand in line and machinegunned to death.

It's sad to see the pictures of the dead Georgian soldiers, but... you have to take that in the context of the above. It is VERY sad that now we hear of the revenge of the Ossetians and of those who saw what happened to them, and again this is mostly against the Georgian civilians who were not given a place on Saakashvili's goon-tanks and goon-SUVs for the high-speed Victory Parade into Tbilisi.


The situation in the west of Georgia seems to be developing as I had posted here a while ago - with the east-west road cut at Gori, and Russians making the odd sortie pretending to push east, the Goons are hiding in Tbilisi and demanding that all their armed forces rush to defend the Presidential Palace (and maybe the private jet airport for the Paki-like exit to Geneva). The Russians have conveniently parked dozens of tanks at a military base that is less than 30 miles west along the road from Tbilisi. Any morning now, they may be rolling in front of the Presidential Palace, guns pointed at maximum depression in salute.

At the same time, there is a "ceasefire" but "ceasefire" just means that the Russians are not PRO-ACTIVELY bombarding the Georgian military, but instead giving them the opportunity to run for their lives, or surrender. The Russians have NOT agreed to any given "YellowSea" AFAIK. The Abhkazians and the Russians and the Ossetians are moving through West Georgia at will, and occupying the vacated military bases. The Russians have made it very very clear that any sign of resistance or even organizing for resistance, means all-out destruction.

The Georgians running towards East Georgia now have to take the side lanes or the mountains to the South, which means they have to abandon all their equipment. The Russians have complete air dominance, so any tank movement, APCs, even rifle-carrying uniformed men, are likely to be "mistaken" for combat operations, and hit.

What would you do if you were a Georgian battalion commander in West Georgia now? Burkhas (or in this case nun-habits) and bicycles must be in great demand.

I think the Georgian people need to strengthen one of the lamp-posts outside the Presidential Palace and solve their problem sooner rather than wait for later.

[Kati]

CNN used wrong footage to cover Georgia (no surprise here!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNblG9PJMk&feature=user

[NRao]

Igorr, I would suggest you delete that post. Not meant for BR IMHO.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

On the other side, Bush is sending Rice followed by Gates (with some goodies) in the next few days - to show solidarity!!!!

Rice will head to France - for talks with FR Prez, then to T'bilisi.

The Georgian PM was on CNN about an hour ago. He indeed speaks very good English (wonder where they got that from), but outside of that he seemed to be clueless as to what is happening in the country. I found it rather odd that they started this mess and seemed to have lost total control. IF the Russians shut down the airport at T'bilisi, that is the end of this state/country.

Which really begs the question, why would NATO want countries that have major issues with a large neighbor and too small to be worth their while. Acceptance of countries liek Georgia would bring very, very low ROI I woudl imagine.

[Kati]

McCain adviser got money from Georgia

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 13 minutes ago, Yahoonews.com

John McCain's chief foreign policy adviser and his business partner lobbied the senator or his staff on 49 occasions in a 3 1/2-year span while being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by the government of the former Soviet republic of Georgia.

The payments raise ethical questions about the intersection of Randy Scheunemann's personal financial interests and his advice to the Republican presidential candidate who is seizing on Russian aggression in Georgia as a campaign issue.

McCain warned Russian leaders Tuesday that their assault in Georgia risks "the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world."

On April 17, a month and a half after Scheunemann stopped working for Georgia, his partner signed a $200,000 agreement with the Georgian government. The deal added to an arrangement that brought in more than $800,000 to the two-man firm from 2004 to mid-2007. For the duration of the campaign, Scheunemann is taking a leave of absence from the firm.

"Scheunemann's work as a lobbyist poses valid questions about McCain's judgment in choosing someone who — and whose firm — are paid to promote the interests of other nations," said New York University law professor Stephen Gillers. "So one must ask whether McCain is getting disinterested advice, at least when the issues concern those nations."

"If McCain wants advice from someone whose private interests as a once and future lobbyist may affect the objectivity of the advice, that's his choice to make."

McCain has been to Georgia three times since 1997 and "this is an issue that he has been involved with for well over a decade," said McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers.

McCain's strong condemnation in recent days of Russia's military action against Georgia as "totally, absolutely unacceptable" reflects long-standing ties between McCain and hardline conservatives such as Scheunemann, an aide in the 1990s to then-Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott.

Scheunemann, who also was a foreign policy adviser in McCain's 2000 presidential campaign, has for years traveled the same road as McCain in pushing for regime change in Iraq and promoting NATO membership for Georgia and other former Soviet republics.

While their politics coincide, Russia's invasion of Georgia casts a spotlight on Scheunemann's business interests and McCain's conduct as a senator.

Scheunemann's firm lobbied McCain's office on four bills and resolutions regarding Georgia, with McCain as a co-sponsor or supporter of all of them.

In addition to the 49 contacts with McCain or his staff regarding Georgia, Scheunemann's firm has lobbied the senator or his aides on at least 47 occasions since 2001 on behalf of the governments of Taiwan and Macedonia, which each paid Scheunemann and his partner Mike Mitchell over half a million dollars; Romania, which paid over $400,000; and Latvia, which paid nearly $250,000. Federal law requires Scheunemann to publicly disclose to the Justice Department all his lobbying contacts as an agent of a foreign government.

After contacts with McCain's staff, the senator introduced a resolution saluting the people of Georgia on the first anniversary of the Rose Revolution that brought Mikhail Saakashvili to power.

Four months ago, on the same day that Scheunemann's partner signed the latest $200,000 agreement with Georgia, McCain spoke with Saakashvili by phone. The senator then issued a strong statement saying that "we must not allow Russia to believe it has a free hand to engage in policies that undermine Georgian sovereignty."

Rogers, the McCain campaign spokesman, said the call took place at the request of the embassy of Georgia. And McCain campaign spokeswoman Nicolle Wallace added that the senator has full confidence in Scheunemann. "We're proud of anyone who has worked on the side of angels in fledgling democracies," she said in an interview.

McCain called Saakashvili again on Tuesday. "I told him that I know I speak for every American when I said to him, today, we are all Georgians," McCain told a cheering crowd in York, Pa. McCain's Democratic rival, Barack Obama, had spoken with Saakashvili the day before.

In 2005 and 2006, McCain signed onto a resolution expressing support for the withdrawal of Russian troops from Georgia; introduced a resolution expressing support for a peace plan for Georgia's breakaway province of Ossetia; and co-sponsored a measure supporting admission of four nations including Georgia into NATO.

On Tuesday, McCain told Fox News that "as you know, through the NATO membership, ... if a member nation is attacked, it is viewed as an attack on all."

Scheunemann's lobbying firm is one of three that he has operated since 1999, with clients including BP Amoco, defense contractor Lockheed Martin Corp. and the National Rifle Association.

Scheunemann is part of the community of neoconservatives who relentlessly pushed for war in Iraq.

No one in Washington is more closely aligned with the Bush administration's decision to invade Iraq than prominent neoconservatives, who for years had regime change in Iraq as a goal as part of their philosophy that the United States shouldn't be reluctant to use its power, both diplomatic and military, to spread democracy and to guarantee world order.

Now, McCain and other politicians who pushed for the invasion are seeking to emphasize the progress, albeit fragile, of the current troop surge in Iraq.

In the months before the war began, Scheuenemann ran the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, set up in November 2002 when public support for the looming invasion was eroding.

Before that, Scheunemann was on board with the Project for the New American Century, whose letter to Bush nine days after the Sept. 11 attacks pointed to Iraq as a possible link to the terrorists.

The letter said American forces must be prepared to support "by all means necessary" the U.S. government's commitment to opponents of Saddam Hussein.

Scheunemann was among the letter's 37 signers, a Who's Who of neoconservative luminaries including William Kristol and Richard Perle.

If anything, Scheunemann's duties have been enhanced from McCain's 2000 presidential campaign, when Scheunemann also advised McCain on national security and foreign policy issues.

Earlier in his political career, McCain displayed the kind of caution that could be expected from someone who fought in Vietnam and was a prisoner of war.

In 1983, McCain urged U.S. withdrawal from Lebanon. "I do not see any obtainable objectives in Lebanon, and the longer we stay there, the harder it will be to leave," he said.

As the United States prepared for the first Gulf war, McCain was among a handful of members in Congress who began raising caution flags about the operation.

"If you get involved in a major ground war in the Saudi desert, I think support will erode significantly," said McCain. "Nor should it be supported. We cannot even contemplate, in my view, trading American blood for Iraqi blood."

[svinayak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ8G3B9fo6U

Georgian troops attacked civilians.
America misleading false information about the war.
Read blog:

http://cnnbbclie.blogspot.com/

Russian military arrested a Georgian aggressors... August 8, Georgian troops entered the southern Ossetia and killing the wounded children continued to move into the city Tskhinvali.

Georgian President Saakashvili conducting genocide against the people of South Ossetia.

CNN BBC and British television SKY NEWS give people false information (misinformation), thereby causing the American people from aggression to Russia.

[Gerard]

US forces to deliver Georgia aid

President George W Bush has said the US will use military aircraft and naval forces to deliver aid to Georgia following its conflict with Russia.

[Gerard]

U.S. to take control of Georgian ports: Saakashvili

"You have heard the statement by the U.S. president that the United States is starting a military-humanitarian operation in Georgia," Saakashvili said in a television address.

"It means that Georgian ports and airports will be taken under the control of the U.S. defense ministry in order to conduct humanitarian and other missions. This is a very important statement for easing tension."

Unrequited GUBO?

[ramana]

So this Georgian adventure could sink the US Presidential camapaign due to lobbyists and conflict of interest? What about judgement?

[Gerard]

Pentagon says no plans to control Georgia ports

[Gerard]

The Eastern European version of the Ummah... and just as half-arsed and useless..

Baltic leaders rally in Tbilisi

Latvian Prime Minister Ivars Godmanis alongside presidents of Poland, Ukraine, Estonia, and Lithuania arrived in Georgia and took part in the mass rally in Tbilisi, to show solidarity with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili in Georgia's conflict with Russia.

[svinayak]

They are trying to create a anti-russian front. These are similar to the period before the world wars in Europe.

Europe could again get into serious faultline due to the eastern european conflict.

It may take 20 years before this strikes europe

[Lalmohan]

Wasn't there some fascist military coalition called Inter-Mareum or something, i.e. between the Baltic and the Black Seas to check the Soviets during the 1930's? We're seeing a repreive of that I think. Unkil mistakenly thinking they are democratic, just like Unkil thought Pakis and Talibains were cool dudes who just hated communists in their spare time...

history repeating itself?

[Gerard]

US plans aid to Georgia as Russia rolls into city

[ramana]

US has to do something or else
1) The initiative passes to EU and France
2) Munnas everywhere will be scared to side with US.

So the Rice trip and the 'humanitarian' aid.

[Gerard]

Ukraine: Russian ships need permission to return

[enqyoob]

Sending C-17s is an attempt to show military muscle. I would be very surprised if the Russians allow this - why don't they declare it a combat zone, and limit air traffic to Red Cross flights, I wonder. There is no reason on earth why "humanitarian" aid must go on C-17s, since the Tbilisi airport is functional. However, if the flight is to take SAMs and anti-tank missiles, then there is reason to take it on C-17s.

[Gerard]

Russia challenges George Bush as it advances through Georgia

Russia has thrown down a gauntlet to the United States, challenging President George W Bush to "choose" between Washington's relationship with Georgia and its future ties with Moscow.

[Gerard]

Georgians trust in God: in Saakashvili, not so much

[JaiS]

45 min video report: Russia's Defence ministry spokesman press-conference

The full press-conference of defence spokesman Anatoly Nogovitsyn.

[RamaY]

Wasn't there some fascist military coalition called Inter-Mareum or something, i.e. between the Baltic and the Black Seas to check the Soviets during the 1930's? We're seeing a repreive of that I think. Unkil mistakenly thinking they are democratic, just like Unkil thought Pakis and Talibains were cool dudes who just hated communists in their spare time...

history repeating itself?

And hopefully the new Russia doesn't behave like USSR and play its game carefully.

India paid the severe collateral damage in the first round of geopolitical game in Afghanistan. Hope the next-gen Indian leaders behave differently.

[Raj]

Fyi , both the below videos are sourced from Russia Today channel. RT is available for free from http://livestation.com

45 min video report: Russia's Defence ministry spokesman press-conference

The full press-conference of defence spokesman Anatoly Nogovitsyn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ8G3B9fo6U

Georgian troops attacked civilians.
America misleading false information about the war