The russos would be smart to come up with 2 types of mergers with mother Russia - a full one i.e. voluntary annexation and a partial one - the kind of halfway house the EU was when multiple currencies ruled the roost.
The partial merger option keeps it easier for more to join on a varied set of terms. Heck, down the line, who knows, the entire SCO might seek to partially merge with Russia onlee....
/jus kiddin' n all onlee
Caucasus Crisis
Re: Caucasus Crisis
AWST'e version was an initial one,just after the conflict.As Igorr says,Georgian exaggeration of Russian losses is to be expected after Shaky-Willy has lost such a large part of his country and has had his armed forces decimated! The Chinese reluctance to endorse Russia's action indicates the Chinese inability to support a rightoeus cause (S.Ossetiaa and Abkhazia) for fear of undermining their own lust to hold onto Tibet and reconquer Taiwan.If Saddam Hussein could be condemned for invading Kuwait (a creature state created by the west),for which he was later on tried in a kangaroo court and hanged thanks to the US,why has the west remained so silent about Saakashvili's agression? Double standards abound.India must take a bold and correct step and recognise the breakaway republics.In any case Georgia has now broken ties with Russia.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
the main thing to note is the very robust way both the Russians and the West have defended their positions regardless of rights and wrongs. so much better than appeasing a bunch of ingrate jehadi lovers like the GOI does
Re: Caucasus Crisis
The US is succeeding in bleeding Russia, by pitching their own people (SU time) against each other. The US and the west will continue to do so, just like after 1947 the UK pitched Pakistan against India. A time tested tactic, can bleed Russians in the long run, if Russians don't give strong response to any military aid to ex - SU nations.
The need for the hour for Russia is to increase the defense budget, work together towards building a fighting fit armed forces, by keeping hair trigger alert on nukes and keep all ICBM's and SLBM's in ready position, 24 / 7.
Along with defense preparedness, Russia needs to increase economic engagement with nations apart from the west.
The need for the hour for Russia is to increase the defense budget, work together towards building a fighting fit armed forces, by keeping hair trigger alert on nukes and keep all ICBM's and SLBM's in ready position, 24 / 7.
Along with defense preparedness, Russia needs to increase economic engagement with nations apart from the west.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Georgia Mission Strictly Humanitarian, Coast Guard Captain Claims
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/d ... s-geo.html
U.S. Ally Proves Volatile Amid Dispute With Russia
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1220060 ... lenews_wsj
Georgian President Says West Ignored Pleas for Support
"It looked like the West didn't want to get involved," says Mr. Saakashvili.
Russia: US still looking for WMDs in Iraq
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=67 ... =351020602
Russia has slammed what it calls the UN Security Council's hypocritical stance on the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 740784.htm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=asia
Russia 'indeed a superpower', says diplomat
http://www.gulfnews.com/world/Russia/10241196.html
Putin: Russia will not be isolated
http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM ... QvYIrZ4wcw
Vladimir Putin said Russia will not be isolated over its conduct in Georgia and implied he does not fear any Western sanctions.
The Russian prime minister also warned Europe not to do the bidding of the United States.
An animated and at times angry-looking Mr Putin spoke in an interview with Germany's ARD television before a European Union meeting on the Georgia crisis and relations with Russia. He was shown on Russian TV.
He said Russia had defended the honour and the lives of its citizens with its actions in South Ossetia and that such a nation cannot face isolation.
US, Russian planes narrowly avoid mid-air collision
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hzP ... AEMFsJp8tQ
Principle of reciprocity exists in Turk-Russia relations
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/dome ... .asp?scr=1
No doubt Russia not 'one of us'
http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Columni ... 1-sun.html
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/d ... s-geo.html
U.S. Ally Proves Volatile Amid Dispute With Russia
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1220060 ... lenews_wsj
Georgian President Says West Ignored Pleas for Support
"It looked like the West didn't want to get involved," says Mr. Saakashvili.
Russia: US still looking for WMDs in Iraq
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=67 ... =351020602
Russia has slammed what it calls the UN Security Council's hypocritical stance on the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
France not to seek sanctions on Russia at EU summit"I would like to ask the distinguished representative of the United States about....Weapons of Mass Destruction. Have you found them in Iraq yet or are you still looking for them"? Churkin said.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 740784.htm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=asia
Russia 'indeed a superpower', says diplomat
http://www.gulfnews.com/world/Russia/10241196.html
Putin: Russia will not be isolated
http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM ... QvYIrZ4wcw
Vladimir Putin said Russia will not be isolated over its conduct in Georgia and implied he does not fear any Western sanctions.
The Russian prime minister also warned Europe not to do the bidding of the United States.
An animated and at times angry-looking Mr Putin spoke in an interview with Germany's ARD television before a European Union meeting on the Georgia crisis and relations with Russia. He was shown on Russian TV.
He said Russia had defended the honour and the lives of its citizens with its actions in South Ossetia and that such a nation cannot face isolation.
He lashed out at European nations for supporting the US on Kosovo's independence and said Europe would not gain anything by "serving the foreign policy interests" of the United States.
US, Russian planes narrowly avoid mid-air collision
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hzP ... AEMFsJp8tQ
Principle of reciprocity exists in Turk-Russia relations
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/dome ... .asp?scr=1
NATO SHIPS
On the NATO ships, Sahin reiterated the remarks of NATO secretary general that the ships would abide by the agreement governing the passage of foreign warships through the Turkish straits and leave the Black Sea within 21 days, and said that this statement must be respected.
Russia had warned Turkey that it would be held responsible if the U.S. ships currently in the Black Sea stayed beyond the 21 days allowed under the Montreux Convention and said the entrance of NATO warships to the Black Sea was a serious threat to its security.
No doubt Russia not 'one of us'
http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Columni ... 1-sun.html
Re: Caucasus Crisis
US seeks to offset Russian energy dominance
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iDI ... ESotZ6tKnw
Putin in fresh attack on US over Georgia
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g-O ... jjBtIF3Cjw
12 hours ago
MOSCOW (AFP) — Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin made fresh accusations of US involvement in the Georgia conflict and rejected suggestions Moscow could target Ukraine next, in an interview aired Saturday.
The powerful former Kremlin leader urged the European Union to refrain from imposing sanctions against Russia when it meets for an emergency summit on Monday.
A transcript of the interview to Germany's ARD television was released by the Russian government Saturday and excerpts were broadcast on Russian television.
Putin spoke after Georgia broke off diplomatic relations with Russia on Friday, three days after Moscow formally recognised the independence of two Georgian secessionist regions.
"We have long ago recognised the borders of modern-day Ukraine," he said.
Relations between Russia and Ukraine have been strained over Kiev's demands that Moscow prepare the withdrawal of Russia's Black Sea fleet from the Crimean port of Sevastopol, where the Russian fleet has been based for 200 years.
But Putin offered reassurances that the fleet will eventually leave Crimea: "We have an agreement with Ukraine about maintaining the presence of our fleet until the year 2017 and we will implement that agreement."
Putin, who left the Kremlin in May after eight years as president, urged EU leaders to show "common sense" and make an "objective assessment" of the conflict that erupted after a Georgian offensive to retake breakaway South Ossetia.
EU leaders want to send the message that they disapprove of Russia's actions in Georgia but the French EU presidency has made clear they will not opt for sanctions.
"If I were to say that we don't care, that we were indifferent, I would be lying," Putin said ahead of the EU summit.
He also asserted that Russia "of course will leave these positions where we are now... We will not remain there forever".
"Our goal is only to provide security in the region."
Russia pulled out the bulk of its forces from Georgia last week and maintains that those left behind are serving in a peacekeeping mission. Georgia describes the troops as an "occupation force."
Russia has faced an avalanche of criticism from the West after the five day war and its formal recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states.
The Russian foreign ministry on Friday accused the Group of Seven industrialised countries of bias in the conflict and Western powers of seeking to "justify Georgian acts of aggression."
The G7 -- Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United States -- had called on Russia to "implement in full" a French-brokered peace plan and pull all forces out of Georgia.
Russia says it has implemented the agreement. It has also cited examples of Georgian non-compliance and accuses the West of selectively focusing only on Russian obligations under the pact.
NATO has also strongly condemned Russia's actions in Georgia, but foreign ministry spokesman Andrei Nesterenko hit back saying the Western alliance had "no moral right to the role of mentor in matters of international relations and to judge the actions of other states."
NATO is putting "unacceptable pressure" on Russia, Nesterenko said, in an apparent reference to the presence of alliance ships in the Black Sea, including several US naval vessels delivering aid to Georgia.
US Vice President Dick Cheney will visit Georgia on Tuesday in a new show of Western support for the Tbilisi government.
Russia sent troops into South Ossetia and the rest of Georgia on August 8, one day after Tbilisi launched a military offensive to reclaim control of the rebel province from Russian-backed separatists.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iDI ... ESotZ6tKnw
Putin in fresh attack on US over Georgia
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g-O ... jjBtIF3Cjw
12 hours ago
MOSCOW (AFP) — Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin made fresh accusations of US involvement in the Georgia conflict and rejected suggestions Moscow could target Ukraine next, in an interview aired Saturday.
The powerful former Kremlin leader urged the European Union to refrain from imposing sanctions against Russia when it meets for an emergency summit on Monday.
A transcript of the interview to Germany's ARD television was released by the Russian government Saturday and excerpts were broadcast on Russian television.
Putin spoke after Georgia broke off diplomatic relations with Russia on Friday, three days after Moscow formally recognised the independence of two Georgian secessionist regions.
Putin also rejected suggestions from French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner that Russia could have designs on other former Soviet republics -- specifically Ukraine -- after sending troops deep inside Georgia this month."We know there were many US advisors there," Putin said, reiterating remarks he had made in a previous interview to CNN.
"But these instructors, teachers in a general sense, personnel who trained others to work on the supplied military equipment, are supposed to be in training centers and where were they? In the military operations zone," he said.
"Why did the senior US leadership allow their citizens to be present there when they had no right to be in the security zone? And if they allowed it, I begin to suspect that it was done intentionally to organise a small victorious war.
"And if that failed, they wanted to create an enemy out of Russia and unite voters around one of the presidential candidates. Of course, a ruling party candidate, because it is only the ruling party that has this kind of resource," he said.
The White House has dismissed the accusations as "patently false".
"We have long ago recognised the borders of modern-day Ukraine," he said.
Relations between Russia and Ukraine have been strained over Kiev's demands that Moscow prepare the withdrawal of Russia's Black Sea fleet from the Crimean port of Sevastopol, where the Russian fleet has been based for 200 years.
But Putin offered reassurances that the fleet will eventually leave Crimea: "We have an agreement with Ukraine about maintaining the presence of our fleet until the year 2017 and we will implement that agreement."
Putin, who left the Kremlin in May after eight years as president, urged EU leaders to show "common sense" and make an "objective assessment" of the conflict that erupted after a Georgian offensive to retake breakaway South Ossetia.
EU leaders want to send the message that they disapprove of Russia's actions in Georgia but the French EU presidency has made clear they will not opt for sanctions.
"If I were to say that we don't care, that we were indifferent, I would be lying," Putin said ahead of the EU summit.
He also asserted that Russia "of course will leave these positions where we are now... We will not remain there forever".
"Our goal is only to provide security in the region."
Russia pulled out the bulk of its forces from Georgia last week and maintains that those left behind are serving in a peacekeeping mission. Georgia describes the troops as an "occupation force."
Russia has faced an avalanche of criticism from the West after the five day war and its formal recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states.
The Russian foreign ministry on Friday accused the Group of Seven industrialised countries of bias in the conflict and Western powers of seeking to "justify Georgian acts of aggression."
The G7 -- Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the United States -- had called on Russia to "implement in full" a French-brokered peace plan and pull all forces out of Georgia.
Russia says it has implemented the agreement. It has also cited examples of Georgian non-compliance and accuses the West of selectively focusing only on Russian obligations under the pact.
NATO has also strongly condemned Russia's actions in Georgia, but foreign ministry spokesman Andrei Nesterenko hit back saying the Western alliance had "no moral right to the role of mentor in matters of international relations and to judge the actions of other states."
NATO is putting "unacceptable pressure" on Russia, Nesterenko said, in an apparent reference to the presence of alliance ships in the Black Sea, including several US naval vessels delivering aid to Georgia.
US Vice President Dick Cheney will visit Georgia on Tuesday in a new show of Western support for the Tbilisi government.
Russia sent troops into South Ossetia and the rest of Georgia on August 8, one day after Tbilisi launched a military offensive to reclaim control of the rebel province from Russian-backed separatists.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
From Russia with gas
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... /WBmarkets
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... /WBmarkets
“If Russia turns off the natural gas taps this winter, Europeans will freeze and businesses will shut down,” Ms. Cooper said. “This is the real threat of the new ‘cold war' and the U.S. can do little about it.”
Re: Caucasus Crisis
U.S. military frets over future U.S.-Russian ties
http://www.reuters.com/article/politics ... 6720080828
http://www.reuters.com/article/politics ... 6720080828
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Mr Cheney goes to Georgia
By Kaveh L Afrasiabi
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH30Ag01.html
Russia's authority to be enhanced, not damaged -- Putin
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.htm ... &PageNum=0
MOSCOW, August 30 (Itar-Tass) -- Russia's authority on the international arena will not be damaged as a result of the recent developments in the Caucasus, but on the contrary, it will be enhanced, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin believes.
Authority of any country that is able to defend life and dignity of its citizens, a country that is able to pursue an independent external policy, authority of such a country will be only enhanced in the world for a long-term and a middle-term periods. And on the contrary, authority of those countries that make it a rule to serve foreign policy interests of other states, neglecting own national interests, irrespective of how they explain it, will be lowered, Putin noted.
A country, Russia in this case, that can defend honour and dignity of its citizens, defend their life, fulfill its international legal obligations within a peacekeeping mandate, such a country will not be isolated, whatever Russia's partners in Europe and the United States say within the framework of the alliance thinking. The world is not only Europe and the United States, the premier reminded.
If European states want to serve U.S. foreign policy interests, they will not gain anything from it, Putin believes.
By Kaveh L Afrasiabi
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH30Ag01.html
Russia's authority to be enhanced, not damaged -- Putin
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.htm ... &PageNum=0
MOSCOW, August 30 (Itar-Tass) -- Russia's authority on the international arena will not be damaged as a result of the recent developments in the Caucasus, but on the contrary, it will be enhanced, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin believes.
Authority of any country that is able to defend life and dignity of its citizens, a country that is able to pursue an independent external policy, authority of such a country will be only enhanced in the world for a long-term and a middle-term periods. And on the contrary, authority of those countries that make it a rule to serve foreign policy interests of other states, neglecting own national interests, irrespective of how they explain it, will be lowered, Putin noted.
A country, Russia in this case, that can defend honour and dignity of its citizens, defend their life, fulfill its international legal obligations within a peacekeeping mandate, such a country will not be isolated, whatever Russia's partners in Europe and the United States say within the framework of the alliance thinking. The world is not only Europe and the United States, the premier reminded.
If European states want to serve U.S. foreign policy interests, they will not gain anything from it, Putin believes.
Last edited by renukb on 30 Aug 2008 20:04, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
U.S. weighs sanctions, Russia nuclear deal at risk
http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandid ... 0320080828
http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandid ... 0320080828
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Russia says U.S. ships arms to Georgia, U.S. denies
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/worl ... v-usa.html
MOSCOW – Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Tuesday accused the United States of shipping arms to Georgia on U.S. naval vessels, but Washington denied the charge.
Medvedev made the charge in an interview on the BBC when he was asked if Russia was mounting a blockade of ships off Georgia's Black Sea port of Poti where the American warship USS McFaul is due to deliver humanitarian aid.
'I can assure you that these are purely humanitarian aid shipments that are going into Georgia and nothing else,' Fratto said.
The U.S. Embassy in Tbilisi told Reuters that the USS McFaul was due to dock in Poti on Wednesday. Other U.S. naval vessels are due in the same area in
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/worl ... v-usa.html
MOSCOW – Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Tuesday accused the United States of shipping arms to Georgia on U.S. naval vessels, but Washington denied the charge.
Medvedev made the charge in an interview on the BBC when he was asked if Russia was mounting a blockade of ships off Georgia's Black Sea port of Poti where the American warship USS McFaul is due to deliver humanitarian aid.
White House spokesman Tony Fratto, speaking in Texas, said the accusation was ridiculous.He replied: 'There is no blockade. Any ship can get in, American and others are bringing in humanitarian cargoes. 'And what the Americans call humanitarian cargoes – of course, they are bringing in weapons.'
'I can assure you that these are purely humanitarian aid shipments that are going into Georgia and nothing else,' Fratto said.
The U.S. Embassy in Tbilisi told Reuters that the USS McFaul was due to dock in Poti on Wednesday. Other U.S. naval vessels are due in the same area in
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Quote:
"The relationship between Russia & China is based on mutual fear of each other. It's not good to have a powerful adversary as your neighbor, so the end result is maintain a friendly outlook with each other, but at the same time be wary strategically.
India & Russia both share a border dispute with an economically fast growing nation of 1.5(??) billion people. Russia and India are natural Allies in this aspect."
Never before, India was placed in a situation like this. It is a win-win situation where
-- US needs us as a counter-weight to China
-- Russia needs us as a counter-weight to China
-- China needs us to be on "friendly" terms
If we play our cards well, then, 21st century will mark a decisive shift in economic and military balance in favor of Asia
It will be "full circle" from days of domination from European powers to days of our "domination" (not really domination)
"The relationship between Russia & China is based on mutual fear of each other. It's not good to have a powerful adversary as your neighbor, so the end result is maintain a friendly outlook with each other, but at the same time be wary strategically.
India & Russia both share a border dispute with an economically fast growing nation of 1.5(??) billion people. Russia and India are natural Allies in this aspect."
Never before, India was placed in a situation like this. It is a win-win situation where
-- US needs us as a counter-weight to China
-- Russia needs us as a counter-weight to China
-- China needs us to be on "friendly" terms
If we play our cards well, then, 21st century will mark a decisive shift in economic and military balance in favor of Asia
It will be "full circle" from days of domination from European powers to days of our "domination" (not really domination)
Re: Caucasus Crisis
prabir wrote:Quote:
"The relationship between Russia & China is based on mutual fear of each other. It's not good to have a powerful adversary as your neighbor, so the end result is maintain a friendly outlook with each other, but at the same time be wary strategically.
India & Russia both share a border dispute with an economically fast growing nation of 1.5(??) billion people. Russia and India are natural Allies in this aspect."
Never before, India was placed in a situation like this. It is a win-win situation where
-- US needs us as a counter-weight to China
-- Russia needs us as a counter-weight to China
-- China needs us to be on "friendly" terms
If we play our cards well, then, 21st century will mark a decisive shift in economic and military balance in favor of Asia
It will be "full circle" from days of domination from European powers to days of our "domination" (not really domination)
China will use proxies to go after India
It will use the five fingers in the western frontiers
Re: Caucasus Crisis
-- Russia needs us as a counter-weight to Chinaprabir wrote:Quote:
"The relationship between Russia & China is based on mutual fear of each other. It's not good to have a powerful adversary as your neighbor, so the end result is maintain a friendly outlook with each other, but at the same time be wary strategically.
India & Russia both share a border dispute with an economically fast growing nation of 1.5(??) billion people. Russia and India are natural Allies in this aspect."
Never before, India was placed in a situation like this. It is a win-win situation where
-- US needs us as a counter-weight to China
-- Russia needs us as a counter-weight to China
-- China needs us to be on "friendly" terms
If we play our cards well, then, 21st century will mark a decisive shift in economic and military balance in favor of Asia
It will be "full circle" from days of domination from European powers to days of our "domination" (not really domination)
In the current world scenerio, Democracy or no democracy, India and Russia are natural allies in the region, as we were in the past and more so in the near future. It is a symbiotic relation, can be very fruitful, if extended well upon by both nations. Russia needs India (and perhaps the EAST) to counter west's economical threats of sanctions and needs India to keep China in check. Important to note the comments from Putin in one of the above links....as below in quotes.
-- US needs us as a counter-weight to ChinaThe world is not only Europe and the United States, the premier reminded.
If European states want to serve U.S. foreign policy interests, they will not gain anything from it, Putin believes.
I don't agree here... US will try to use China against Russia. Any takers on this?
-- China needs us to be on "friendly" terms
China is a Dangerous nation, never to be trusted. They will work with US against Russia, they can work with Russia against USA....so on... Basically China is a expansionist nation serving self interests fiercely.
Last edited by renukb on 30 Aug 2008 21:23, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
China will use proxies to go after India
Not going to work in the long run....
Not going to work in the long run....
Re: Caucasus Crisis
There are some nonsense being discussed here that need to be addressed.
There is no such thing as natural allies or non-natural allies. Allies appear and disappear out of common national interests and disappear when this common naitonal interest disappears.
Prussians and Austrians are Germans. Yet, it did not stop The Kaiser of Prussia from attacking the territory of the Kaiser in Vienna and anexxing it in 1871. They remained enemies until they saw common causes that brought them together. And they fought in WW1 as allies.
For hundreds of years the French forces and English British forces were fighting each other to death from one corner of the world to another. Yet, fearing Russian move to re-take Istanbul for the Orthodox fold, these two powers became allies and fought as allies on the side of the Ottomans in the Crimean war. They also fought as allies in the various Opium wars in China.
German states were trampled over by invading armies left and right-French, Swedish, Russians, English etc. During Napoleanic wars, Prussians fought as French allies during the invasion of Russia but fought as allies of the English and Russians against Napolean in Waterloo in 1814. One hundred years later the Prussians (Germans) were fighting the combined French-English armies in WW1 in that same battlefield.
Remember the siege of Vienna by the Ottomans? Yep, that did not prevent Germans, Austrians and Turks from fighting in WW1 as allies.
English speaking peoples of the North American colonies and English speaking peoples in the mother country should have been natural allies. Yet, they fought each other in battles that collectively referred to as American Revolutionary War that resulted in the United States of America. Ofcourse these days they go about as natural allies but as late as 1812 (New Orleans war) they were enemies. It took a lot of things to happen before the USA came to rescue the western powers in 1917. The alliance today is not what I would consider natural because it is not a ballanced relationship but a lopsided one.
People who share the same culture and language may not be allies. People who are unlike each other can be allies. There is nothing natural.
China and Russia will be allies if and when they see a common cause. They will be enemies when they see no common cause. Same goes to India and also virtually every country in the world. There is nothing natural or unnatural about these.
So when someone (from hight and mighty opinion maker to pan/chai walla )talks about natural allies or unnatural allies.....some farmer out there must have lost a huge pile of dung the night before.
Avram
There is no such thing as natural allies or non-natural allies. Allies appear and disappear out of common national interests and disappear when this common naitonal interest disappears.
Prussians and Austrians are Germans. Yet, it did not stop The Kaiser of Prussia from attacking the territory of the Kaiser in Vienna and anexxing it in 1871. They remained enemies until they saw common causes that brought them together. And they fought in WW1 as allies.
For hundreds of years the French forces and English British forces were fighting each other to death from one corner of the world to another. Yet, fearing Russian move to re-take Istanbul for the Orthodox fold, these two powers became allies and fought as allies on the side of the Ottomans in the Crimean war. They also fought as allies in the various Opium wars in China.
German states were trampled over by invading armies left and right-French, Swedish, Russians, English etc. During Napoleanic wars, Prussians fought as French allies during the invasion of Russia but fought as allies of the English and Russians against Napolean in Waterloo in 1814. One hundred years later the Prussians (Germans) were fighting the combined French-English armies in WW1 in that same battlefield.
Remember the siege of Vienna by the Ottomans? Yep, that did not prevent Germans, Austrians and Turks from fighting in WW1 as allies.
English speaking peoples of the North American colonies and English speaking peoples in the mother country should have been natural allies. Yet, they fought each other in battles that collectively referred to as American Revolutionary War that resulted in the United States of America. Ofcourse these days they go about as natural allies but as late as 1812 (New Orleans war) they were enemies. It took a lot of things to happen before the USA came to rescue the western powers in 1917. The alliance today is not what I would consider natural because it is not a ballanced relationship but a lopsided one.
People who share the same culture and language may not be allies. People who are unlike each other can be allies. There is nothing natural.
China and Russia will be allies if and when they see a common cause. They will be enemies when they see no common cause. Same goes to India and also virtually every country in the world. There is nothing natural or unnatural about these.
So when someone (from hight and mighty opinion maker to pan/chai walla )talks about natural allies or unnatural allies.....some farmer out there must have lost a huge pile of dung the night before.
Avram
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Georgia quits Moscow 1994 ceasefire agreement
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20080830/88 ... ire_1.html
Tajikistan, Russia to boost strategic partnership
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 739189.htm
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20080830/88 ... ire_1.html
Tajikistan, Russia to boost strategic partnership
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 739189.htm
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Georgia.. What is it?....Germans are busy ensuring their GAS supplies
Thomson Financial News
Germany confident Russia will keep delivering oil
08.29.08, 7:09 AM ET
http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/fe ... 70638.html
Thomson Financial News
Germany confident Russia will keep delivering oil
08.29.08, 7:09 AM ET
http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/fe ... 70638.html
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Realism about RussiaIn dealing with Moscow, the EU needs hard-headed realism, not hysterical over-reaction
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... /russia.eu
Georgia invasion raises Ukraine issues for EU
6 hours ago
http://canadianpress.google.com/article ... Pe6Jrtb9QA
Russia's threat to a multipolar world
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/au ... a.georgia1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... /russia.eu
Georgia invasion raises Ukraine issues for EU
6 hours ago
http://canadianpress.google.com/article ... Pe6Jrtb9QA
Russia's threat to a multipolar world
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/au ... a.georgia1
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Why ?renukb wrote:China will use proxies to go after India
Not going to work in the long run....
Re: Caucasus Crisis
+ Russia has propotionately cut far less of the infrastructure of the cold war build up than the US, even though it proportionately costs them a great deal more.narayanan wrote:Putin is definitely a believer in the centralized authority of the SU, but the alternative in Russia under Boris was not free democracy, but rule by the Mafia. Not that this is an excuse.... but that Russian "democracy" has some ways to go before reaching a stable state.
But I don't see territorial ambitions unlike the Kremlin of the 1960s and 70s. No COMINTERN exporting Revolution, and no real emphasis on military buildup at the cost of raising standard of living.
The Dawood-like language is precisely what makes me say that this is nationalistic rage and deep and urgent feelings of insecurity, with good cause behind those. What the NATO is doing is complete betrayal. It's surprising that Gorbachev hasn't committed suicide.
If this keeps up, Zhirinovsky will become next "President", and then it will be time to dust off the Fallout Shelter signs again.
Even in the early 1990s prior to NATO expansion when many Russians were going hungry and cold in the winter Russia was committed to maintaining cold war nuclear parity with the US, even if the nukes werent actually programmed with western target co-ordinates.
Even in those days Yeltsin kept alive programmes for the next generation of ballistic missiles and SSBNs, the same ones that Putin and Ivanov have recently unveiled with pride.
Conventional forces have suffered not because of the lack of intent and desire to maintain a superpower force, but because there was just no money left over at all. Far more base consolidation and mothballing would have made sense, but the generals hated reducing the grandeur of the army, regardless of their actual shape.
+ Yes, many Russians feel cheated by the whats happened since the Cold War ended.
And, yes Russia's goals arent as ambitious as the former Soviet Union that Putin seems bent on restoring.
Unfortunately Russia has refused to accept that the anxiety, resentment and fear it breeds among so many of its neighbours is based on a number of specific things.
These are countries that for generations have either had to fight, or face the prospect of fighting, or live under the Tsars and then the Commissars.
Without a very concerted effort on Russia's part to demonstrate that its given up the old thinking, it is inevitable that they will seek some other way to secure their independence.
Back in 1918, the Bolsheviks proclaimed that any conquered peoples who wanted to leave the overthrown Russian empire were free to do so. Many did. Lenin once securely in power in Russia then organised red revolutions, aided by the red army, and re-established control in most of them. Only Poland, Finland and the Baltics were able to hold them off. Stalin in 1939-1940 reinvaded all of those.
Similarly Yeltsin proclaimed the USSR dissolved in 1991. But once he secured power in Russia there were attempts to reverse the process.
Russia, like China are empires even after revolutions - they believe they are entitled to the maximum extent of their historical empires in perpetuity.
Russia maintained troops in Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova and the Baltic republics when the Soviet Union broke up, as well as Poland and what used to be East Germany. All of these were countries that wanted Russian troops out. It took a lot of very concerted action on the part of NATO to get the Russians to do just that. In fact Russian troops didnt leave bases in Georgia until last year. I am making a distinction from countries like Armenia and Tajikistan that are happy to have Russian trops.
If Russia wants NATO out of its periphery, then it must treat its periphery as sovereign countries, and partners, not its security buffer, states whose independent status is temporary. That will remove any desire among most of those states for wider military alliances.
+ I've never been one to overstate democracy under Yeltsin. It was Yeltsin after all who handpicked and consistantly promoted Putin from an obscure regional politician, to head of the secret police (the most important element of Kremlin power since 1918) to chief national security coordinator, to PM, and finally to President.
And under Yeltin, although the extent of the KGB's control over ordinary people's lives was reduced, Yeltsin still depended on the secret police as THE key lever of power, just like the communists before him. What he did though was to fragment the KGB so that it couldnt move against him, the way they attempted to move against Gorbachev in 1991. Putin, being a man with his own network of friends inside the Cheka has been willing to reconsolidate it, confidant of his control over it.
Even in Yeltsin's era, most of the parties in the Russian parliament were not independent. Most of them *including* Zhirinovsky depended on handouts from the Kremlin for survival. Ironically only the communists were independent force besides Yeltsin, and now even they are on the take. In Russia a political candidates strength does not depend on the strength of his party, or the party's appeal to the public. All that matters is their ability to win the right patron in the Kremlin and the bureaucracy.
Whether Yeltsin (former politburo member), or Putin or Medvedev, the road to power in Russia has come through an invitation from the Kremlin. So in all in all, tragically little progress forward from the Soviet era.
Zhirinovsky is a joke - no one in Russia's power structure is going to give him a road to power. This is the power structure that has survived and remained in place despite all the upheaval since 1985, its old thinking intact. Yeltsin's promise of deep change was never carried out because he never transcended its thinking - and he needed it to survive himself.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Tell me why it will work?.SwamyG wrote:Why ?renukb wrote:China will use proxies to go after India
Not going to work in the long run....
As Indian economy keeps growing, and India builds a defense force that can overwhelm these proxies, India becomes more important even to China, than these proxies.
Last edited by renukb on 30 Aug 2008 22:00, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
"China will use proxies to go after India."
Why will? It already is. It is connected to our economic success, China believed we couldn't make it 'cos our democracy was too messy, then suddenly it finds us sprinting ahead. They cannot believe it and have to stop us. Now FDI is pouring in at unheard of levels ($20 billion in first half), they will intensify their efforts to disturb our peace. And the ISI hates its enemies enough to escalate its efforts.
Why will? It already is. It is connected to our economic success, China believed we couldn't make it 'cos our democracy was too messy, then suddenly it finds us sprinting ahead. They cannot believe it and have to stop us. Now FDI is pouring in at unheard of levels ($20 billion in first half), they will intensify their efforts to disturb our peace. And the ISI hates its enemies enough to escalate its efforts.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Naah. I do not know if it will work or not. Acharya made a claim, and you claimed otherwise. So I asked you the reason for your conclusion.renukb wrote:Tell me it will work?.SwamyG wrote: Why ?
As Indian economy keeps growing, and India builds a defense force that can overwhelm these proxies, India becomes more important even to China, than these proxies.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
We need to take the China and its proxies discussions to the relevant thread...
The return of the Russia the west loves to loathe
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/42dc1b9c-75c5 ... fd18c.html
The return of the Russia the west loves to loathe
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/42dc1b9c-75c5 ... fd18c.html
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Moscow halts Iran cooperation with US, will complete Bushehr reactor
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5545
The Georgia quarrel has all but derailed US-Russian cooperation on the Iran issue. Moscow is not only pulling out of the diplomatic and sanctions front against Iran’s nuclear program; according to DEBKAfile’s Russian sources, Moscow has decided to finally finish building Iran’s nuclear reactor in the southern town of Bushehr before the end of the year, after holding back for five years at Washington’s insistence.
Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin said in reference to the impact of the Georgia row on US-Russian cooperation on Iran Thursday, Aug. 28: “If nobody wants to talks with us on these issues and cooperation with Russia is not needed, then for God’s sake, do it yourself.”
Moscow has now committed to completing the reactor within four months. DEBKAfile’s military sources report that the functioning plant will enable Iran to operate a heavy water plant and produce plutonium as an alternative to enriched uranium for building a nuclear bomb. Tehran had originally counted on the Syria’s North Korean reactor at al Kibar for plutonium. It was demolished by Israel last September.
Putin’s sharp comment means the West can forget about Russian support for another round of harsh sanctions to punish Iran for refusing to suspend uranium enrichment. He made it clear that Western nations will have to resolve the standoff without Russian help if they refuse to cooperate with Moscow on Georgia.
The Russians have lost no time in following through on their threat. This week, they are sending the head of their Nuclear Energy Board, Sergei Kireinko, to Tehran at the head of a large delegation. They will stay for at least ten days to clear away the problems for getting the Bushehr reactor up and running by the end of 2008
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5545
The Georgia quarrel has all but derailed US-Russian cooperation on the Iran issue. Moscow is not only pulling out of the diplomatic and sanctions front against Iran’s nuclear program; according to DEBKAfile’s Russian sources, Moscow has decided to finally finish building Iran’s nuclear reactor in the southern town of Bushehr before the end of the year, after holding back for five years at Washington’s insistence.
Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin said in reference to the impact of the Georgia row on US-Russian cooperation on Iran Thursday, Aug. 28: “If nobody wants to talks with us on these issues and cooperation with Russia is not needed, then for God’s sake, do it yourself.”
Moscow has now committed to completing the reactor within four months. DEBKAfile’s military sources report that the functioning plant will enable Iran to operate a heavy water plant and produce plutonium as an alternative to enriched uranium for building a nuclear bomb. Tehran had originally counted on the Syria’s North Korean reactor at al Kibar for plutonium. It was demolished by Israel last September.
Putin’s sharp comment means the West can forget about Russian support for another round of harsh sanctions to punish Iran for refusing to suspend uranium enrichment. He made it clear that Western nations will have to resolve the standoff without Russian help if they refuse to cooperate with Moscow on Georgia.
The Russians have lost no time in following through on their threat. This week, they are sending the head of their Nuclear Energy Board, Sergei Kireinko, to Tehran at the head of a large delegation. They will stay for at least ten days to clear away the problems for getting the Bushehr reactor up and running by the end of 2008
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Russia Looks East After Criticism from the West
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,214 ... 83,00.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,214 ... 83,00.html
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Georgia's wounded troops tell of their surprise when Russia attacked
The funniest part about this article: The Georgian officer featured in this article is named Major Dumbatze
The funniest part about this article: The Georgian officer featured in this article is named Major Dumbatze
Re: Caucasus Crisis
That must be the ADC to General Jack Ayce, the chief American Advisor to the Georgia Strategic Military Planning Team.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Moscow seeks allies on Georgia, but China and India fear separatism
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=13074&size=A
The Russian president is seeking support for his decision to recognise independence for the two Georgian regions, Abkhazia and South Ossetia. But separatism is already an internal problem for both Beijing and New Delhi. Giving the go ahead on independence, means risking the break up of the two Asian giants.
Dushanbe (AsiaNews/Agencies) – The capital of Tajikistan, Dushanbe, is the setting for the Shanghai Cooperation Organization meeting, which opened today gathering together 4 Asian central republics (Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kirgizstan and Kazakhstan), China and Russia. India, Iran and Pakistan are also attending in the capacity of observer status. Discussions will centre on terrorism and drug trafficking based in Afghanistan. But for Russian president Dmitri Medvedev it also presents the perfect occasion to seek support in his standoff with the West over Moscow’s recognition of independence for South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Moscow’s decision has been condemned by many western nations as a violation of Georgian integrity and a return “to the Cold War”.
Former Georgian (and ex USSR) leader Edward Shevardnadze has asked the international community to boycott the 2014Winter Games due to be hosted by Russia in Sochi. Hu Jintao has already declared that China supports Russia in its right to keep the Games, but so far has made no statements regarding Moscow’s moves on Georgia and the separatist republics.
Beijing to date has remained neutral on the standoff between Russia and NATO, merely expressing its “concern” over the situation. Many experts believe it almost impossible for China to throw its weight behind Medvedev on South Ossetia and Abkhazia; given that China also has problems with separatism in Xinjiang and Tibet. “This is an embarrassing situation for China”. Jin Canrong, a professor at Renmin University's School of International Studies, said. “On one hand, China is a close ally with Russia, but on the other hand, China does not support separatism".
The same can be argued for India where many groups from Kashmir to Bengal are fighting for independence.
In supporting South Ossetia and Abkhazia, it seems as if Russia is exacting its revenge for the West’s support of Kosovo independence. In the case of Kosovo China also presented it’s “deep concern”, without however giving its support to the separatist cause.
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=13074&size=A
The Russian president is seeking support for his decision to recognise independence for the two Georgian regions, Abkhazia and South Ossetia. But separatism is already an internal problem for both Beijing and New Delhi. Giving the go ahead on independence, means risking the break up of the two Asian giants.
Dushanbe (AsiaNews/Agencies) – The capital of Tajikistan, Dushanbe, is the setting for the Shanghai Cooperation Organization meeting, which opened today gathering together 4 Asian central republics (Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kirgizstan and Kazakhstan), China and Russia. India, Iran and Pakistan are also attending in the capacity of observer status. Discussions will centre on terrorism and drug trafficking based in Afghanistan. But for Russian president Dmitri Medvedev it also presents the perfect occasion to seek support in his standoff with the West over Moscow’s recognition of independence for South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Moscow’s decision has been condemned by many western nations as a violation of Georgian integrity and a return “to the Cold War”.
Former Georgian (and ex USSR) leader Edward Shevardnadze has asked the international community to boycott the 2014Winter Games due to be hosted by Russia in Sochi. Hu Jintao has already declared that China supports Russia in its right to keep the Games, but so far has made no statements regarding Moscow’s moves on Georgia and the separatist republics.
Beijing to date has remained neutral on the standoff between Russia and NATO, merely expressing its “concern” over the situation. Many experts believe it almost impossible for China to throw its weight behind Medvedev on South Ossetia and Abkhazia; given that China also has problems with separatism in Xinjiang and Tibet. “This is an embarrassing situation for China”. Jin Canrong, a professor at Renmin University's School of International Studies, said. “On one hand, China is a close ally with Russia, but on the other hand, China does not support separatism".
The same can be argued for India where many groups from Kashmir to Bengal are fighting for independence.
In supporting South Ossetia and Abkhazia, it seems as if Russia is exacting its revenge for the West’s support of Kosovo independence. In the case of Kosovo China also presented it’s “deep concern”, without however giving its support to the separatist cause.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Russia's isolation plays into China's hands
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/ ... lation.php
DUSHANBE, Tajikistan: Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has cast vague Central Asian support for Russia's actions in South Ossetia as a diplomatic victory. But a summit in the region held signs that China, already a powerful regional player, will benefit from concerns about an aggressive Russia.
As Moscow's combative rhetoric leaves it increasingly isolated, China may have tipped the balance of influence in Russia's backyard.
Russian peacekeepers ended Georgia's "barbaric aggression" according to "international legal standards," Medvedev told a news conference Friday after a summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
The group comprises China, Russia and four ex-Soviet republics in Central Asia, whose energy riches are coveted by Russia, China and the West.
The summit members issued a statement Thursday vaguely praising what it called Russia's efforts to ensure peace after its war with Georgia this month.
But they did not condemn Georgia — as Russia had hoped — and none of them backed Russia's decision to recognize breakaway South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Russian media reported before the summit that Russia's efforts to insert wording condemning Georgia were thwarted by China.
The Chinese government is usually wary of supporting separatists in other countries, mindful of its own problems with Tibet and nationalists in the western territory of Xinjiang. It has also resisted being drawn into alliances that could damage its diplomatic standing.
"China has always stood in the middle and it has no intention of keeping with the same company as Russia," said Alexei Malashenko, an analyst at the Carnegie Moscow Center.
China's approach to courting its Central Asian partners has been low-key but assiduous and based on concrete proposals.
While Russia and the West attempt to persuade gas-rich states in the region of the appeal of their competing pipeline proposals, China has already begun construction of a transit route that is expected to carry up to 40 billion cubic meters of natural gas per year from Turkmenistan by 2009.
Several crumbling highways in impoverished Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan have been resurrected as a result of Chinese investment and technology. In stark contrast, Russian efforts to revive the vital Rogun hydropower plant project in electricity-starved Tajikistan have foundered in recent years.
Russia did secured some qualified support for its policy in the Caucasus.
"We all believe that Russia's actions were aimed at protecting the long-suffering residents of the South Ossetian capital," Kazakhstan's President Nursultan Nazarbayev said.
Speaking to reporters in Dushanbe, Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad offered a veiled defense of Russia's role in Georgia.
"These problems are in part caused by the interference of powers outside the region," he said. "The situation has also been caused by the mistaken behavior of some high-placed Georgian officials."
Nonetheless, most Shanghai Cooperation Organization members will remain circumspect about offering anything that could encourage secessionist impulses in their own countries.
"Kyrgyzstan has territorial issues in the south with ethnic Uzbeks and Kazakhstan are concerned with the ethnic Russian dominated north," said independent political analyst Parviz Mullodzhanov. "While we in Tajikistan have our own Gorno-Badakshan autonomous region."
The four Central Asian members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization — Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan — are reluctant to endanger their relations with Europe and the United States.
Kazakhstan enjoys significant Western investment in its rich hydrocarbon sector, and impoverished Kyrgyzstan received U.S. aid and rent for hosting a U.S. air base that supports military operations in Afghanistan.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/ ... lation.php
DUSHANBE, Tajikistan: Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has cast vague Central Asian support for Russia's actions in South Ossetia as a diplomatic victory. But a summit in the region held signs that China, already a powerful regional player, will benefit from concerns about an aggressive Russia.
As Moscow's combative rhetoric leaves it increasingly isolated, China may have tipped the balance of influence in Russia's backyard.
Russian peacekeepers ended Georgia's "barbaric aggression" according to "international legal standards," Medvedev told a news conference Friday after a summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
The group comprises China, Russia and four ex-Soviet republics in Central Asia, whose energy riches are coveted by Russia, China and the West.
The summit members issued a statement Thursday vaguely praising what it called Russia's efforts to ensure peace after its war with Georgia this month.
But they did not condemn Georgia — as Russia had hoped — and none of them backed Russia's decision to recognize breakaway South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Russian media reported before the summit that Russia's efforts to insert wording condemning Georgia were thwarted by China.
The Chinese government is usually wary of supporting separatists in other countries, mindful of its own problems with Tibet and nationalists in the western territory of Xinjiang. It has also resisted being drawn into alliances that could damage its diplomatic standing.
"China has always stood in the middle and it has no intention of keeping with the same company as Russia," said Alexei Malashenko, an analyst at the Carnegie Moscow Center.
China's approach to courting its Central Asian partners has been low-key but assiduous and based on concrete proposals.
While Russia and the West attempt to persuade gas-rich states in the region of the appeal of their competing pipeline proposals, China has already begun construction of a transit route that is expected to carry up to 40 billion cubic meters of natural gas per year from Turkmenistan by 2009.
Several crumbling highways in impoverished Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan have been resurrected as a result of Chinese investment and technology. In stark contrast, Russian efforts to revive the vital Rogun hydropower plant project in electricity-starved Tajikistan have foundered in recent years.
Russia did secured some qualified support for its policy in the Caucasus.
"We all believe that Russia's actions were aimed at protecting the long-suffering residents of the South Ossetian capital," Kazakhstan's President Nursultan Nazarbayev said.
Speaking to reporters in Dushanbe, Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad offered a veiled defense of Russia's role in Georgia.
"These problems are in part caused by the interference of powers outside the region," he said. "The situation has also been caused by the mistaken behavior of some high-placed Georgian officials."
Nonetheless, most Shanghai Cooperation Organization members will remain circumspect about offering anything that could encourage secessionist impulses in their own countries.
"Kyrgyzstan has territorial issues in the south with ethnic Uzbeks and Kazakhstan are concerned with the ethnic Russian dominated north," said independent political analyst Parviz Mullodzhanov. "While we in Tajikistan have our own Gorno-Badakshan autonomous region."
The four Central Asian members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization — Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan — are reluctant to endanger their relations with Europe and the United States.
Kazakhstan enjoys significant Western investment in its rich hydrocarbon sector, and impoverished Kyrgyzstan received U.S. aid and rent for hosting a U.S. air base that supports military operations in Afghanistan.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Putin maps the boundaries of greater Russia
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/128428e4-7517 ... fd18c.html
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/128428e4-7517 ... fd18c.html
Re: Caucasus Crisis
What a bunch of irresponsible fearmongering. I'm not just talking about the western media but also some of the posters here.
There's been so much nonsense spouted here that I'm hard pressed to refute every point but let me give a quick go:
* Russia wants to rebuild the Soviet Union --- rediculous. First of all Russia needs a market for its oil & natural gas, and that market includes the former USSR republics and the former Warsaw Pact nations. Russia has no motivation whatsoever to reconquer these nations - this isn't the 1930's or even the 1960's anymore; economics rule the day in today's world. Secondly Russia's meager defense spending (barely more than France) does not indicate a nation on the march. Just for perspective:
US annual military spending(2008): $711 billion
European Union: $289 billion
Russia: $70 billion
China: $122
India: $26.5
* Russians long for a return to the glory days of Stalin, or the czars, or Peter the Great, or (insert stupid analogy here). This idiocy is spouted by self-styled historians that frankly need to stop living in the past. Newsflash: communism is dead, the age of empires was over a long time ago, and present-day Russians just want the same things we all want. They want a good standard of living, they want law and order, they want opportunity. When it comes to foreign policy, the main thing is Russia wants to be left alone. It was NATO that expanded up to the Russian border, not the other way around, remember? And when I say "NATO" I mean "the United States". Why the hell does NATO still exist if not as a vehicle for US expansion? Shouldn't NATO have been disolved in 1991 when the Warsaw Pact formally disbanded?
* Russia is evil because Putin washed his dishes with Vodka when he visited New Delhi. Hey, when you've got no compelling argument of your own, play the race card right? This argument is a very transparent attempt to play on the self-loathing that all Indians supposedly feel, but I think it says more about you (the people spreading this rumor). Even if this story is true, I couldn't possibly care less. Putin can roll around New Delhi in a plastic bubble for all I care, as long as his policies coincide with our national interest, and guess what - they do.
I can't imagine why any Indian would want to jump on the US bandwagon at the expense of our longstanding ties with Russia. The US has never brought us anything but grief.
* Europeans that refuse to condemn Russia are practicing appeasement. Another misguided comparison to the 1930's. Maybe, just maybe, politicans like Gerhard Schroder are intelligent enough to plainly see that Russia is not really "in the wrong" here. Maybe they reject confrontation confrontation with Russia not because of cowardice, but because they see the west has no moral high ground, that Georgia is not an innocent victim in this crisis, and that Russia's response was justified? No, they must be cowards and traitors...
* Russia is an authoritarian police state. If that's true, so is Georgia. Did you know there's no opposition media allowed in Georgia? Did you know one of Shakisvilli's main political rivals was murdered under highly suspicious circumstances? Did you know Shakisvillis gov't crushed popular protests with soldiers and riot police? Sounds a lot like Putin's Russia, maybe worse, doesn't it? But let's all give Georgia a free pass because they're allied with the United States.
Anyway what's wrong with being allied to an authoritarian police state? Everybody else does it - including your beloved USA.
There's been so much nonsense spouted here that I'm hard pressed to refute every point but let me give a quick go:
* Russia wants to rebuild the Soviet Union --- rediculous. First of all Russia needs a market for its oil & natural gas, and that market includes the former USSR republics and the former Warsaw Pact nations. Russia has no motivation whatsoever to reconquer these nations - this isn't the 1930's or even the 1960's anymore; economics rule the day in today's world. Secondly Russia's meager defense spending (barely more than France) does not indicate a nation on the march. Just for perspective:
US annual military spending(2008): $711 billion
European Union: $289 billion
Russia: $70 billion
China: $122
India: $26.5
* Russians long for a return to the glory days of Stalin, or the czars, or Peter the Great, or (insert stupid analogy here). This idiocy is spouted by self-styled historians that frankly need to stop living in the past. Newsflash: communism is dead, the age of empires was over a long time ago, and present-day Russians just want the same things we all want. They want a good standard of living, they want law and order, they want opportunity. When it comes to foreign policy, the main thing is Russia wants to be left alone. It was NATO that expanded up to the Russian border, not the other way around, remember? And when I say "NATO" I mean "the United States". Why the hell does NATO still exist if not as a vehicle for US expansion? Shouldn't NATO have been disolved in 1991 when the Warsaw Pact formally disbanded?
* Russia is evil because Putin washed his dishes with Vodka when he visited New Delhi. Hey, when you've got no compelling argument of your own, play the race card right? This argument is a very transparent attempt to play on the self-loathing that all Indians supposedly feel, but I think it says more about you (the people spreading this rumor). Even if this story is true, I couldn't possibly care less. Putin can roll around New Delhi in a plastic bubble for all I care, as long as his policies coincide with our national interest, and guess what - they do.
I can't imagine why any Indian would want to jump on the US bandwagon at the expense of our longstanding ties with Russia. The US has never brought us anything but grief.
* Europeans that refuse to condemn Russia are practicing appeasement. Another misguided comparison to the 1930's. Maybe, just maybe, politicans like Gerhard Schroder are intelligent enough to plainly see that Russia is not really "in the wrong" here. Maybe they reject confrontation confrontation with Russia not because of cowardice, but because they see the west has no moral high ground, that Georgia is not an innocent victim in this crisis, and that Russia's response was justified? No, they must be cowards and traitors...
* Russia is an authoritarian police state. If that's true, so is Georgia. Did you know there's no opposition media allowed in Georgia? Did you know one of Shakisvilli's main political rivals was murdered under highly suspicious circumstances? Did you know Shakisvillis gov't crushed popular protests with soldiers and riot police? Sounds a lot like Putin's Russia, maybe worse, doesn't it? But let's all give Georgia a free pass because they're allied with the United States.
Anyway what's wrong with being allied to an authoritarian police state? Everybody else does it - including your beloved USA.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Y.Kanan welcome to BR and thanks for thoughtful post..........very rare on BR these days.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
The moral side of this story (for that matter any story) is questionable and can always be argued. For everyone that thinks Stalin is a mass murderer there are some that worship him, in our country.
History may not be a guide to future behaviour as most mutual fund ads remind us. But then Russia with its hard nosed commercial interests (as proven clearly by arguments over rouble debts, groshkov(?) aircraft carrier, threatening us with selling arms to TSP if we buy more from west etc. etc.) , is also way different from the warm embrace of the Soviet bear that provided us with all goodies, and was ready to stand up for us, if only to spite the west. Putin quietly abandoned nuclear deals once GWB objected, which is exactly what led us to go begging to Uncle Sam in the first place. He is also unlikely to stand up for India vis-a-vis China, instead would probably advise us to compromise with China in the interest of anti-US unity. Already China is a big arms and energy buyer from Russia and that would weigh in any Russian calculation.
The issue is the course that Putin is setting Russia on - and the likely outcome of this course and India's own stance in the developing equation. India will be courted by one and all. It is advisable to keep a safe distance from all, but a safer distance from Putin led Russia because it is not a sustainable course. That is clearly shown by the fact that China is not ready to back him on such anti-western course. I expect quiet back pedaling in coming months. Signs are already there with Russia asking Europeans to send observers to Georgia to monitor situation (something they were not interested in just few days ago).
Again these are opinions, that can be argued. Whether one argument is nonsense or not does not depend on the willingness of the poster to use such terms but on what the future turns out to be.
History may not be a guide to future behaviour as most mutual fund ads remind us. But then Russia with its hard nosed commercial interests (as proven clearly by arguments over rouble debts, groshkov(?) aircraft carrier, threatening us with selling arms to TSP if we buy more from west etc. etc.) , is also way different from the warm embrace of the Soviet bear that provided us with all goodies, and was ready to stand up for us, if only to spite the west. Putin quietly abandoned nuclear deals once GWB objected, which is exactly what led us to go begging to Uncle Sam in the first place. He is also unlikely to stand up for India vis-a-vis China, instead would probably advise us to compromise with China in the interest of anti-US unity. Already China is a big arms and energy buyer from Russia and that would weigh in any Russian calculation.
The issue is the course that Putin is setting Russia on - and the likely outcome of this course and India's own stance in the developing equation. India will be courted by one and all. It is advisable to keep a safe distance from all, but a safer distance from Putin led Russia because it is not a sustainable course. That is clearly shown by the fact that China is not ready to back him on such anti-western course. I expect quiet back pedaling in coming months. Signs are already there with Russia asking Europeans to send observers to Georgia to monitor situation (something they were not interested in just few days ago).
Again these are opinions, that can be argued. Whether one argument is nonsense or not does not depend on the willingness of the poster to use such terms but on what the future turns out to be.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
To summarise, India has following four options:
a) Ideally - Stay clearly neutral. But this is going to be difficult for a country of our size and geographic and strategic compulsions, and we may end up pissing off all of them.
b) Follow the advise of our sulking commander-in-chief of the Nandigram rapist goon army, hang the Dalai Lama, give up Arunachal and Sikkim, give up nuclear weapons, disband the Army and sign up as a domestic servant of China. And then worry whether China would complain about the large size of our police force.
c) Tilt towards Russia
d) Tilt towards West
c) would make eminent sense if and only if (C-a) clear and present evidence indicates that Russia can not only help us stand up against west and assist us with technology denials and troubles that would follow our tilting and more importantly, (C-b) if there is clear and present evidence that Russia would help us against the shenanigans of China and would be willing to stand up for us.
There is some evidence of (C-a), even in recent times, forgetting the past. But I would be happy to stand corrected with actual facts on my stand that there is absolutely none as re. (C-b)
Since it is getting somewhat repetitive, I would rather carry on with this on some other thread, if at all.
a) Ideally - Stay clearly neutral. But this is going to be difficult for a country of our size and geographic and strategic compulsions, and we may end up pissing off all of them.
b) Follow the advise of our sulking commander-in-chief of the Nandigram rapist goon army, hang the Dalai Lama, give up Arunachal and Sikkim, give up nuclear weapons, disband the Army and sign up as a domestic servant of China. And then worry whether China would complain about the large size of our police force.
c) Tilt towards Russia
d) Tilt towards West
c) would make eminent sense if and only if (C-a) clear and present evidence indicates that Russia can not only help us stand up against west and assist us with technology denials and troubles that would follow our tilting and more importantly, (C-b) if there is clear and present evidence that Russia would help us against the shenanigans of China and would be willing to stand up for us.
There is some evidence of (C-a), even in recent times, forgetting the past. But I would be happy to stand corrected with actual facts on my stand that there is absolutely none as re. (C-b)
Since it is getting somewhat repetitive, I would rather carry on with this on some other thread, if at all.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
Russia Tests New Nuclear Missile
Upping the ante in the recent geopolitical brinksmanship over Georgia, Poland, and Ukraine, Russia responded by test-firing its new RS-12M nuclear missile.
The test, launched from a point near Moscow, struck a target in Kamchatka nearly 4,000 miles away. Russia and independent observers deemed the test a success.
The RS-12M is an advanced version of the land-based Topol-M. It is a three-stage ICBM with a range of 12,000 km, carries a 550-KT nuclear warhead, and has an unknown number of advanced "stealth" features designed to prevent interception by ABM (anti ballistic missile) defenses. NATO refers to it as the SS-25 Sickle.
More............
http://www.dailytech.com/Russia+Tests+N ... e12818.htm
War with Russia is on the agenda
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs. ... 0880827013
I think it is better to post the entire article....
Thinking about the massive failure of the U.S. media to report truthfully is sobering. The United States, bristling with nuclear weapons and pursuing a policy of world hegemony, has a population that is kept in the dark — indeed brainwashed — about the most important and most dangerous events of our time.
The power of the Israel lobby is an important component of keeping Americans in the dark. Recently, I watched a documentary that demonstrates the control that the Israel lobby exercises over Americans’ view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
As a result of the U.S. media’s one-sided coverage, few Americans are aware that for decades Israel has been ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their homes and lands under protection of America’s veto in the United Nations. Instead, the dispossessed Palestinians are portrayed as mindless terrorists who attack innocent Israel.
If one reads Israeli newspapers, such as Haaretz, or publications from Israeli organizations, such as the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, one gets a radically different view of the situation than the propagandistic version delivered by U.S. media and evangelical pulpits.
Most Americans know of the 2000 attack by Muslim terrorists on the USS Cole in Aden harbor in Yemen that resulted in 17 dead and 39 wounded American sailors. But few have heard of Israel’s 1967 attack on the USS Liberty that left 34 American sailors dead and 174 wounded. Pressured by the Israel lobby, President Johnson ordered Adm. McCain, father of the Republican presidential nominee, to cover up the attack. To this day there never has been a congressional investigation.
The failure of the American media is again evident in the coverage of the Georgian-Russian conflict. The U.S. media presented the conflict as a Russian invasion of Georgia, whereas in actual fact the American and Israeli trained and equipped Georgian military launched a sneak attack to kill and drive the Russian population out of South Ossetia, a separatist province.
Russian peacekeepers, together with Georgian ones, had been stationed in South Ossetia since the early 1990s. On orders from Mikheil Saakashvili, the American puppet “president” of Georgia, the Georgian peacekeepers turned their weapons on the unsuspecting Russian peacekeepers and murdered them.
This action by Saakashvili, elected with money from the neoconservative National Endowment for Democracy, an election-rigging tool of U.S. hegemony, was a war crime. In truth, the Russians should have hung Saakashvili, as he is far more guilty than was Saddam Hussein. But it is Russia, not Saakashvili, that the U.S. media have demonized.
Americans have become perfect subjects for George Orwell’s Big Brother. They sit stupidly in front of the TV news or The New York Times or The Washington Post and absorb the lies fed to them. What is wrong with Americans? Why do they put up with it? Are Americans the nation of sheep that Judge Andrew P. Napolitano says they are? Americans flaunt “freedom and democracy” and live under a Ministry of Propaganda.
Two decades ago, President Reagan reached agreement with Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev to end the dangerous Cold War. But every one of Reagan’s successors has sought to pick a new fight with Russia. In violation of the agreement, NATO has been taken to Russia’s borders, and the United States is determined to put former constituent parts of Russia herself into NATO. In an effort to neutralize Russia’s nuclear deterrent and compromise her independence, the United States is putting anti-ballistic missile bases on Russia’s borders.
The gratuitously aggressive U.S. military policy toward Russia will lead to nuclear war. I am confident that if Americans elect John McCain, or the Republicans steal another presidential election, there will be nuclear war in the second decade of the 21st century. The neocon lies, propaganda, macho flag-waving and use of U.S. foreign policy in the interests of a few military-security firms, oil companies and Israel are all leading in that direction.
The November election is perhaps the last chance to avoid nuclear war. But the opportunity might already have been missed. The Republicans have chosen as their candidate one of the most ignorant warmongers alive. The Democrats’ choice was between one of the most divisive women in America and a man of mixed race with a funny name. Considering American’s taste for war, the Democratic candidate could fail to defeat the GOP war candidate.
Many Americans will vote against Barack Obama because he is black. Why does mixed ancestry confer the black label? If America’s population were predominantly black, would Obama be considered white?
Race and propaganda are more likely to determine the outcome of the November election than any awareness or consideration of real issues by voters.
The real issues are suffocated by the media. The American middle class is being destroyed by job-offshoring and work visas for foreigners, while the incomes of the super-rich are soaring. The U.S. dollar’s reserve currency status is eroded. The United States is massively in debt at home and abroad. Health insurance is unaffordable for the vast majority of the population. Injured veterans are being nickeled and dimed, while Halliburton’s profits escalate. Americans are losing their homes, while the U.S. government bails out banks. Wars with Iran, Russia and China are being planned in order to secure U.S. hegemony.
Americans no longer have a government that is for the people and by the people. They have a government for and by special interests and an insane ideology.
But Americans have war, which lets them take out all their frustrations, resentments and disappointments on “Muslim terrorists” and “Russian aggressors.” Few Americans are disturbed that 1.25 million Iraqis and an unknown number of Afghans have died as a result of American invasions based on Bush regime lies and deceptions.
Even Americans, like Sen. Biden, Obama’s selection for vice president, who understand that the wars are based on lies, still want the United States to win. So, it was all a mistake and a deception, but let’s win anyway and keep on killing.
I know people who still complain that the United States did not nuke North Vietnam. When I ask why Vietnam should have been nuked, they reply, “If we had nuked them we would have won.”
What would America have won? The answer is world loathing and the loss of the Cold War.
For many Americans, war is like a sports contest in which they take vicarious pleasure and cheer on their side to victory. Millions of Americans are still bitter that “the liberal media” and war protesters caused America to lose the Vietnam War, and they are determined that this won’t happen again. These Americans have no realization that there was no more reason for the United States to be fighting in Vietnam 40 years ago than to be fighting today in Iraq and Afghanistan or tomorrow in Iran.
Obama, if elected, is no guarantee against nuclear war. Obama has shown that he is as much under the Israel lobby’s thumb as McCain. Obama’s foreign affairs advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, is not a neocon, but he was born in Warsaw, Poland, and has the Pole’s animosity toward Russia. The Bush administration has already changed U.S. war doctrine to permit pre-emptive nuclear attack. With the U.S. government determined to ring Russia with puppet states and military bases, war is inevitable.
Presidential appointees face confirmation in the Senate. Any of Obama’s appointees who might be out of step with plans for U.S. and Israeli hegemony could expect opposition from large corporations and the Israel lobby. There is no assurance that an Obama administration would not be positioned on “the issues” by the same special interests that have positioned the Bush administration.
Americans are filled with hubris, not with knowledge. They have no awareness of the calamity that their government’s pursuit of hegemony is bringing to themselves and to life on earth.
To find out more about Paul Craig Roberts, and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate web page at www.creators.com.
Upping the ante in the recent geopolitical brinksmanship over Georgia, Poland, and Ukraine, Russia responded by test-firing its new RS-12M nuclear missile.
The test, launched from a point near Moscow, struck a target in Kamchatka nearly 4,000 miles away. Russia and independent observers deemed the test a success.
The RS-12M is an advanced version of the land-based Topol-M. It is a three-stage ICBM with a range of 12,000 km, carries a 550-KT nuclear warhead, and has an unknown number of advanced "stealth" features designed to prevent interception by ABM (anti ballistic missile) defenses. NATO refers to it as the SS-25 Sickle.
More............
http://www.dailytech.com/Russia+Tests+N ... e12818.htm
The test follows on the heels of a statement by British Foreign Secretary David Milliband that Russia's invasion of Georgia has meant "the end of peace in Europe". Britain canceled a scheduled set of military exercises with Georgia after Russia stated their participation would be declared an "declaration of war".
War with Russia is on the agenda
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs. ... 0880827013
I think it is better to post the entire article....
Thinking about the massive failure of the U.S. media to report truthfully is sobering. The United States, bristling with nuclear weapons and pursuing a policy of world hegemony, has a population that is kept in the dark — indeed brainwashed — about the most important and most dangerous events of our time.
The power of the Israel lobby is an important component of keeping Americans in the dark. Recently, I watched a documentary that demonstrates the control that the Israel lobby exercises over Americans’ view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
As a result of the U.S. media’s one-sided coverage, few Americans are aware that for decades Israel has been ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their homes and lands under protection of America’s veto in the United Nations. Instead, the dispossessed Palestinians are portrayed as mindless terrorists who attack innocent Israel.
If one reads Israeli newspapers, such as Haaretz, or publications from Israeli organizations, such as the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, one gets a radically different view of the situation than the propagandistic version delivered by U.S. media and evangelical pulpits.
Most Americans know of the 2000 attack by Muslim terrorists on the USS Cole in Aden harbor in Yemen that resulted in 17 dead and 39 wounded American sailors. But few have heard of Israel’s 1967 attack on the USS Liberty that left 34 American sailors dead and 174 wounded. Pressured by the Israel lobby, President Johnson ordered Adm. McCain, father of the Republican presidential nominee, to cover up the attack. To this day there never has been a congressional investigation.
The failure of the American media is again evident in the coverage of the Georgian-Russian conflict. The U.S. media presented the conflict as a Russian invasion of Georgia, whereas in actual fact the American and Israeli trained and equipped Georgian military launched a sneak attack to kill and drive the Russian population out of South Ossetia, a separatist province.
Russian peacekeepers, together with Georgian ones, had been stationed in South Ossetia since the early 1990s. On orders from Mikheil Saakashvili, the American puppet “president” of Georgia, the Georgian peacekeepers turned their weapons on the unsuspecting Russian peacekeepers and murdered them.
This action by Saakashvili, elected with money from the neoconservative National Endowment for Democracy, an election-rigging tool of U.S. hegemony, was a war crime. In truth, the Russians should have hung Saakashvili, as he is far more guilty than was Saddam Hussein. But it is Russia, not Saakashvili, that the U.S. media have demonized.
Americans have become perfect subjects for George Orwell’s Big Brother. They sit stupidly in front of the TV news or The New York Times or The Washington Post and absorb the lies fed to them. What is wrong with Americans? Why do they put up with it? Are Americans the nation of sheep that Judge Andrew P. Napolitano says they are? Americans flaunt “freedom and democracy” and live under a Ministry of Propaganda.
Two decades ago, President Reagan reached agreement with Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev to end the dangerous Cold War. But every one of Reagan’s successors has sought to pick a new fight with Russia. In violation of the agreement, NATO has been taken to Russia’s borders, and the United States is determined to put former constituent parts of Russia herself into NATO. In an effort to neutralize Russia’s nuclear deterrent and compromise her independence, the United States is putting anti-ballistic missile bases on Russia’s borders.
The gratuitously aggressive U.S. military policy toward Russia will lead to nuclear war. I am confident that if Americans elect John McCain, or the Republicans steal another presidential election, there will be nuclear war in the second decade of the 21st century. The neocon lies, propaganda, macho flag-waving and use of U.S. foreign policy in the interests of a few military-security firms, oil companies and Israel are all leading in that direction.
The November election is perhaps the last chance to avoid nuclear war. But the opportunity might already have been missed. The Republicans have chosen as their candidate one of the most ignorant warmongers alive. The Democrats’ choice was between one of the most divisive women in America and a man of mixed race with a funny name. Considering American’s taste for war, the Democratic candidate could fail to defeat the GOP war candidate.
Many Americans will vote against Barack Obama because he is black. Why does mixed ancestry confer the black label? If America’s population were predominantly black, would Obama be considered white?
Race and propaganda are more likely to determine the outcome of the November election than any awareness or consideration of real issues by voters.
The real issues are suffocated by the media. The American middle class is being destroyed by job-offshoring and work visas for foreigners, while the incomes of the super-rich are soaring. The U.S. dollar’s reserve currency status is eroded. The United States is massively in debt at home and abroad. Health insurance is unaffordable for the vast majority of the population. Injured veterans are being nickeled and dimed, while Halliburton’s profits escalate. Americans are losing their homes, while the U.S. government bails out banks. Wars with Iran, Russia and China are being planned in order to secure U.S. hegemony.
Americans no longer have a government that is for the people and by the people. They have a government for and by special interests and an insane ideology.
But Americans have war, which lets them take out all their frustrations, resentments and disappointments on “Muslim terrorists” and “Russian aggressors.” Few Americans are disturbed that 1.25 million Iraqis and an unknown number of Afghans have died as a result of American invasions based on Bush regime lies and deceptions.
Even Americans, like Sen. Biden, Obama’s selection for vice president, who understand that the wars are based on lies, still want the United States to win. So, it was all a mistake and a deception, but let’s win anyway and keep on killing. I know people who still complain that the United States did not nuke North Vietnam. When I ask why Vietnam should have been nuked, they reply, “If we had nuked them we would have won.”
What would America have won? The answer is world loathing and the loss of the Cold War.
For many Americans, war is like a sports contest in which they take vicarious pleasure and cheer on their side to victory. Millions of Americans are still bitter that “the liberal media” and war protesters caused America to lose the Vietnam War, and they are determined that this won’t happen again. These Americans have no realization that there was no more reason for the United States to be fighting in Vietnam 40 years ago than to be fighting today in Iraq and Afghanistan or tomorrow in Iran.
Obama, if elected, is no guarantee against nuclear war. Obama has shown that he is as much under the Israel lobby’s thumb as McCain. Obama’s foreign affairs advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, is not a neocon, but he was born in Warsaw, Poland, and has the Pole’s animosity toward Russia. The Bush administration has already changed U.S. war doctrine to permit pre-emptive nuclear attack. With the U.S. government determined to ring Russia with puppet states and military bases, war is inevitable.
Presidential appointees face confirmation in the Senate. Any of Obama’s appointees who might be out of step with plans for U.S. and Israeli hegemony could expect opposition from large corporations and the Israel lobby. There is no assurance that an Obama administration would not be positioned on “the issues” by the same special interests that have positioned the Bush administration.
Americans are filled with hubris, not with knowledge. They have no awareness of the calamity that their government’s pursuit of hegemony is bringing to themselves and to life on earth.
To find out more about Paul Craig Roberts, and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate web page at www.creators.com.
Last edited by renukb on 31 Aug 2008 21:19, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
To summarize...This again IMO...
* US has not left running behind Russia and IMO, US will not rest until it leaves Russia and all of its nooks in peace.
* Whether EU is willing to work with US to accomodate US foreign strategy goals is left to be seen, as some of EU nations have developed economic dependency on Russia.
* Russia, is just waking up after being laid down wounded big time in 1991. They need friends and they don't have many. Now whose fault is that? IMO, Russia should blame themselves for this.
* Energy reliance by EU on Russia can be short lived if the west finds alternate sources. I am damn sure the west would work in that direction.
* Is EU an enemy of Russia? Still not known. Are the EU nations ready to fight US wars, if Russia gyarantees soverignity of EU nations? Needs to be seen.
* Does Russia need to maintain or have conventional warfare superiority over the west? We don't know, but IMO Yes Russia needs to maintain a conventional warfare parity with the west. How far can Russia depend on its SU era missiles and nooks? Can you use Nooks in the current world sceneri?
* India's options? Definitely we need to work with all, but no military dependency with US.
* If Russia fails to use force when needed, US and EU and NATO would be encouraged to move eastwards in even more quicker time than Russians might have expected.
* At some point, Russians would be forced to use Nooks by the Americans. If the Russians don't they will be finished slowly by the American convention weapon superiority. It is better for Russians to nip the problem in the budding stage.
* Russia needs to define the red lines to both NATO and EU and show them that they mean it. They must also ask EU if they are willing to risk their security to assist achieve US foreign relations strategical objectives vis-a-vis Russia.
* US has not left running behind Russia and IMO, US will not rest until it leaves Russia and all of its nooks in peace.
* Whether EU is willing to work with US to accomodate US foreign strategy goals is left to be seen, as some of EU nations have developed economic dependency on Russia.
* Russia, is just waking up after being laid down wounded big time in 1991. They need friends and they don't have many. Now whose fault is that? IMO, Russia should blame themselves for this.
* Energy reliance by EU on Russia can be short lived if the west finds alternate sources. I am damn sure the west would work in that direction.
* Is EU an enemy of Russia? Still not known. Are the EU nations ready to fight US wars, if Russia gyarantees soverignity of EU nations? Needs to be seen.
* Does Russia need to maintain or have conventional warfare superiority over the west? We don't know, but IMO Yes Russia needs to maintain a conventional warfare parity with the west. How far can Russia depend on its SU era missiles and nooks? Can you use Nooks in the current world sceneri?
* India's options? Definitely we need to work with all, but no military dependency with US.
* If Russia fails to use force when needed, US and EU and NATO would be encouraged to move eastwards in even more quicker time than Russians might have expected.
* At some point, Russians would be forced to use Nooks by the Americans. If the Russians don't they will be finished slowly by the American convention weapon superiority. It is better for Russians to nip the problem in the budding stage.
* Russia needs to define the red lines to both NATO and EU and show them that they mean it. They must also ask EU if they are willing to risk their security to assist achieve US foreign relations strategical objectives vis-a-vis Russia.
Re: Caucasus Crisis
There are still some good men in the US who can act as a "check".
And you need economy to be strong to impose unilateral agenda.
The damage done in the past 8 yrs and huge deficit will take atleast another 5 yrs to correct if Obama comes to power.
During the cold war, US was known as a place of "freedom". That soft power and appeal has eroded over the period of time.
And you need economy to be strong to impose unilateral agenda.
The damage done in the past 8 yrs and huge deficit will take atleast another 5 yrs to correct if Obama comes to power.
During the cold war, US was known as a place of "freedom". That soft power and appeal has eroded over the period of time.