Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 28 Sep 2008 17:46

a very frightening and real scenario (i always thought of one

). but if we add use of ballistic missiles in this scenario then it becomes more scary.

It drills down to who fires first, as India's military resources are not expendable (and do not provide second strike capability) whereas in case of China they have industrial base to replenish most of its losses.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 28 Sep 2008 17:56

Nitesh wrote:when is the counter attack happening?

Pehle attack to hone do

Malay · Post by **Malay** » 28 Sep 2008 18:29

Our counter attack would be severely constrained because of the range of BrahMos-300Kms. We NEED to increase the range of BrahMos so that it can go for major air bases/HQ's etc inside China, not just Tibet.

And even to target the areas surrounding Tibet, our missile's would have to launch from Arunachal Pradesh, not good.

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 28 Sep 2008 18:32

jamwal wrote:
Nitesh wrote:when is the counter attack happening?

Pehle attack to hone do

oye yaar..... 175 have hit. how many more u want?
Attack should start immediately

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 28 Sep 2008 20:56

Malay wrote:Our counter attack would be severely constrained because of the range of BrahMos-300Kms. We NEED to increase the range of BrahMos so that it can go for major air bases/HQ's etc inside China, not just Tibet.

And even to target the areas surrounding Tibet, our missile's would have to launch from Arunachal Pradesh, not good.

It depends in which year the conflict is going on. Presently testing of land attack version of Brahmos is going on, so I have doubts about it's operational deployment. Even if deployed, do we have numbers to give a fitting reply here.

Moreover do we possess (at this fictious time) enough numbers of Agni-II (Agni-I) to counter attack Chinese mainland?

Cheers.....

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 28 Sep 2008 21:08

one thing is clear war with china is depend on Missiles rocket and planes and may be sea war which is most dangerous part of whole thing if battlines is close to coastline of india and i am afraid like on hills we r outnumbers here to.

Malay · Post by **Malay** » 28 Sep 2008 21:27

That the LACM version of BrahMos would be deployed is not uncertain mate. It will be deployed, the point is that the range of BrahMos severely limits its use against China. We need to have longer ranged BrahMos to hit important nodes atleast a reasonable distance inside China apart from Tibet that is.

H.B.Krishna · Post by **H.B.Krishna** » 29 Sep 2008 00:35

Ooops ! Is this the scenario I often have in my dreams? A CM whistling past my ears (Itz my dream onlee) and kaboom !!! I run as fast as I can to save my A** ! OMG...Its really scary even for a scenario....

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 29 Sep 2008 13:32

Sorry I should have been more precise in putting down my opinion. By uncertain, I meant the numbers not whether it will be inducted or not. If this conflict is happening right now, then I don't think we have sufficient deployable Brahmos for land attack.

My mention of Agni-I and Agni-II was to highlight that ballistic missiles could be used too but here the irony is that Agni series is India's strategic weapon and can't carry conventional warheads (creating false impression of nuclear attack). Prithvi and Brahmos are the only weapons left in the armoury and as said by you they lack the range.

Also Vivek's scenerios show that India doesn't possess any weapon as of now to counter attack china conventionally apart from jet aircrafts. This really shows the importance of non glamarous looking subsonic missiles like Nirbhay.

Cheers.....

bhavani · Post by **bhavani** » 29 Sep 2008 19:02

Sorry to be playing spoil sport, but wont normal fighters be used to intercept incomings subsonic CM's. The Mig-31 and Su-27 are supposed to have a substantial antii-CM capabilities. If we have a one hour time and we are able to track incoming CM's then Su-30MKI's can be used to intercept them. In the above scenario, our airforce could have used Su-30MKi's , Mig-29's and Mirages and LCA's also to intercept the incomings CM's given the one hour warning period.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 29 Sep 2008 19:21

^^^^

Vivek will have something comming up

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 29 Sep 2008 19:40

bhavani wrote:Sorry to be playing spoil sport, but wont normal fighters be used to intercept incomings subsonic CM's. The Mig-31 and Su-27 are supposed to have a substantial antii-CM capabilities. If we have a one hour time and we are able to track incoming CM's then Su-30MKI's can be used to intercept them. In the above scenario, our airforce could have used Su-30MKi's , Mig-29's and Mirages and LCA's also to intercept the incomings CM's given the one hour warning period.

Well, just a observation:

The engagement scenario for cruise missiles is never simple. period. There are literally dozens of parameters involved that can make or break the situation. Cruise missiles by definition are difficult to track in the plains, let alone in heavy mountainous terrain. The AWACS goes around this problem in that it stays high enough to 'see' these TERCOM missiles coming down the valleys like water flowing down crevices. Even then contact is at best sporadic with such small elusive targets. In order for a fighter to engage the same target, one of two methods must be used:
a) The fighter's weapons can be guided by the radar of the AWACS in a very specific "drop down" mode that would be needed to ensure the missile does not hit the walls of the mountains on either side during initial maneuvering to the target and so in fact smash the cruise missile from above.
b) The fighter itself must be directed close enough to the target to allow its own radar to find the target. Given that the targets are coming down dozens of various valleys through the hills, each individual fighter must be directed to a section of the border and attempt to fire off radar guided missiles in very short distances (read high miss probability) or get in behind the missile and take it down with an IR missile.

Now, coming to the issue of the scenario, the inbound missiles are coming down hundreds of these valleys in the Great Himalayan ranges. But once the clear the hills and enter areas north of Assam, they are flying over relative plains. So you have two options again:
a) Engage the missiles in the hills and valleys north of the border and over Chinese soil
b) Engage the missiles in the plains south of the border over Indian soil

Engaging the missiles in hilly terrain involves case (b) of the engagement method and involves another threat: the Chinese anti-air ground environment system. Expect losses to fighters there. Further, don't ignore the political dimension of things for this option. South of the border, the missiles are already in the engagement kill-zone of the numerous Akash batteries and if fighters enter the same field, you complicate matters unnecessarily. And if you wait for the Akash missiles to finish their engagement before letting the fighters take over, you find that the missiles are already diving into their targets given the target's close proximity to the border.

BTW, there is no such thing as a spoilsport on this thread. Its called "possible" military scenarios. Anything is "possible", right?

-Vivek

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 30 Sep 2008 00:07

HariC, do you have any comments to add???

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 30 Sep 2008 07:15

Vivek we all have seen F-16s flying alongside tomhawks in formation. So is it really necessary to use missiles? By looking at the video, it seems that one can use cannon too to down them. IMO the only advantage cruise missiles enjoy is stealth because of their low signature and nap of the earth flying. So detecting them should be real difficult but once detected (assuming we have a jet nearby), the intercept should be an easy one similar to intercepting a low manuvering, low flying jet.

Cheers....

Mihir.D · Post by **Mihir.D** » 01 Oct 2008 13:56

Desperately awaiting Indian Counterstrike

...How I wish India was able to respond on a 1:5 scale...
Completely annihilate the Chinky war fighting capability

Malay · Post by **Malay** » 01 Oct 2008 17:39

neerajbhandari wrote:Sorry I should have been more precise in putting down my opinion. By uncertain, I meant the numbers not whether it will be inducted or not. If this conflict is happening right now, then I don't think we have sufficient deployable Brahmos for land attack.

My mention of Agni-I and Agni-II was to highlight that ballistic missiles could be used too but here the irony is that Agni series is India's strategic weapon and can't carry conventional warheads (creating false impression of nuclear attack). Prithvi and Brahmos are the only weapons left in the armoury and as said by you they lack the range.

Also Vivek's scenerios show that India doesn't possess any weapon as of now to counter attack china conventionally apart from jet aircrafts. This really shows the importance of non glamarous looking subsonic missiles like Nirbhay.

Cheers.....

Very true, the present industrial capacity even after expansion(of 50 missiles per year) is too low, and that would hold insufficient even if the range of the current BrahMos was twice of what it actually is!
It seems as though BrahMos is basically Pakistan centric-i say this even after understanding that MTCR limits range beyond 300kms. But the missile itself would be very useful in the Pakistani theater.

For a war with China, a missile with a range of around 700Kms is needed, which can be mass produced preferably supersonic.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 01 Oct 2008 17:52

Vivek Saar..the last post was in the previous month..give us our dose...

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 01 Oct 2008 18:05

Rupesh wrote:Vivek Saar..the last post was in the previous month..give us our dose...

yes yes or else we'l HYPERVENTILATE ..whatever that means

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 02 Oct 2008 12:28

asbchakri wrote:
Rupesh wrote:Vivek Saar..the last post was in the previous month..give us our dose...
yes yes or else we'l HYPERVENTILATE ..whatever that means

Sorry about that guys. Got stuck up with unusual amount of work (part of it for an SRR Article!).

-Vivek

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 02 Oct 2008 12:29

1ST BATTALION C.P.,
3RD INFANTRY COMBAT GROUP (AD-HOC), 5TH MOUNTAIN DIVISION
HILLS NORTH OF WALONG
ARUNACHAL PRADESH
DAY 3 + 0230 HRS

“Foxtrot-Three, this is Three-Alpha, come in. Over” The radio communications officer waited for a reply that was answered with static. Again...
“Foxtrot-Three, this is Three-Alpha, do you read? Over” and yet again there was nothing but static. The Captian looked back at Major Kongara and Lt-Colonel Nath standing behind him:
“Still no reception, sir”

“Keep trying” was the answer as Kongara and Nath moved off outside the improvised bunker carved out of the hillside and into the cold morning air outside. Everybody had been issued with warm protective gear to protect against the cold, but the chilling winds still made their way through to the very bones of anybody exposed to it. Lt-Colonel Nath was the man leading 1ST Battalion out here in the Himalayan peaks of Walong. Other sister Battalions of the 3TH ICG (ad-hoc)/5TH MD were out here as well, protecting each other’s flanks as well as a sector of the border with China. He was also Major Kongara’s direct superior.

The last hour had been pure chaos. All battalions in the region, 1ST Battalion included, had lost contact with Brigadier Malik and 3RD ICG HQ and had not been able to regain contact so far. They had received scattered eyewitness reports from various Jawans sitting in their observation posts about the low flying cruise missiles minutes before they had heard the distant rumbling thunder to the south and lost contact. But that was not the entire picture.

All 3RD ICG units had lost direct UAV support in the minutes leading up to the Chinese attacks. The Army had tried to hastily recover the drones already in the air before relocating to a new location. To some extent they had been successful, with several squadrons having recovered all their aircraft and equipment while others losing a good chunk of men and material to the Chinese missiles. And the problem was that the need for the UAV support was at its peak at the moment. Every Indian Commander wanted news of what was going on north of the border with the PLA, and there just weren’t enough assets to go around now.

To make matters worse, the communications blackout meant that not only there was no contact with anybody up the chain of command for the scattered Indian Army units in the region, there was also no hope of indirect support fire should they make contact with the Chinese. The local artillery had taken a mauling at the hands of the Chinese missiles, with several batteries wiped off the Indian ORBAT board while others down to a fraction of their strength. And with the IAF also reeling from the attacks, the chances of close air support were low to say the least.

Overall, it was a bleak picture. But that was to be expected following such a heavy surprise attack, and things would improve as the Indian Military shifted into the war mode at both the mental and physical levels, something which would take at least a day. So for the time being, however, field commanders like Lt-Colonel Nath and Major Kongara had to improvise:

“Kongara, send out a small reconnaissance patrol to the border. Tell them to set up an observation post and report back on what they see directly to me. In the meantime I will try and see if we can get this damned mess cleared up.”

“Yes sir.” Major Kongara replied before staring northwards and continuing: “They are coming south all right. The question is when. They are going to try and take as much advantage of this mess they have created on our side. So what is our plan of action if we make contact with the Chinese before we re-establish contact with the Brigadier?”

Nath took out a cigarette and lit it up before answering Kongara’s question: “At the moment we are electronically blind, deaf and speechless. We have no support of any kind and cannot make contact with anybody else higher up on the chain of command. So what do we do? What are we supposed to do?” he turned to Kongara in the moonlight before smiling:

“We stand and fight!”

jahaju · Post by **jahaju** » 02 Oct 2008 12:50

“We stand and fight!”

fait accompli.

beautiful writing.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 02 Oct 2008 14:05

IV CORPS HQ (RELOCATED)
ARUNACHAL PRADESH
DAY 3 + 0246 HRS

“How are you getting on with our reply message?” General Yadav asked his Corps Commander.

“They are getting ready. We will hit them in the Lhasa region which is about the farthest we can go anyway. And with limited numbers at my disposal I am primarily looking at this purely from the tactical perspective. This may not be a fitting reply to the Chinese attack, but it will buy us some time at the worst and decimate the PLA’s 13TH GA ability to get off their staging areas in the best case scenario. We will have to wait and see how that turns out, though.” The IV Corps Commander replied from his makeshift HQ. He was sitting and talking over the SATCOM with the Army Commander while his staff around him literally ran about trying to get the situation back under control. It was making Lt-General Chatterjee, commander of the Indian IV Corps, somewhat irritated with regard to the situation he was talking about.

On the one hand he relished the idea of taking the war to the enemy using the series of strikes being planned by the Brahmos batteries under his command. Yet on the other hand he was furious at the state of affairs around him in what he perceived to be a big blunder of leadership from those above him as also those in the Government. His requested Divisional reinforcements that he had been asking for weeks were only now beginning to move thanks to the PM’s orders on non-provocation. At the same time he had a paper lying in front of him on the table which detailed the first preliminary reports of the damage done by the Chinese missiles to the road and bridge infrastructure throughout Assam.

Simply put, the Divisions that were now beginning to move into the region would now have to cross damaged road and rail links, destroyed bridges and probably more attacks even before they got to the battlefield. In the meantime he was supposed to hold off the Chinese with what remained of his artillery and UAV support, disrupted chain of command and displaced or dead commanders throughout the region who, like him, were only now beginning to get control over their units back. Worst part was that he had predicted exactly this scenario to those above him, pleading for them to listen. But his requests and warnings had fallen on deaf ears...

“You are not exactly brimming with confidence on the issue.” Was the bland statement from Yadav.

“No I am not. Look, this mess has happened despite all of our warnings. What the hell are our warnings useful for if nobody listens! And now that the roof has fallen over our heads, all of a sudden people are listening. But guess what, I have dozens and dozens of dead and wounded soldiers and officers already and the list is not even complete and neither has there been any contact with the enemy! I have Divisions trying to arrive into the region with no bridges for them to cross. I have men and supplies waiting to be airlifted but the main airbases are out of commission for the next twelve hours at least. And that is assuming that the Chinese don’t do another number on us between now and then!” Lt-Gen Chatterjee had finally lost control of his temper and said what had to be said even though he knew that the man at the other end of the line was on his side...

“I understand that, damn it! Who do you think you are talking to? Now tell me what you need to get things moving.” General Yadav replied. He realized that his IV Corps Commander was handling hundred different things at the moment. He also knew that most of the things he had been told just now were in fact correct, but that couldn’t be helped at the moment. There was a war on...

“Okay, firstly I need real-time intelligence on what’s happening across the border. My UAV squadrons are coming back on line now, but I could use additional support.” Chatterjee replied after a gap of ten seconds. The reply was immediate and clear:

“Done. I will direct the Air Force to transfer their UAVs under you control for the time being. Also, I have ordered the transfer of some units from the west to replace your losses. They should be there by the end of the day. And we should be getting the latest update on the 13TH GA deployments north of the border from the Aerospace Command boys. What else?” General Yadav asked.

“I am going to request emergency transfer of additional artillery units to this sector to replace my losses there but not until I can get a full assessment done. It will take a few hours. Most of the other stuff is housecleaning on my end. I will get back to you with the strike plans once I have the target list completed, and that depends on how fast we can get the latest satellite info analyzed.”

“It’s being done now. Get your units deployed, armed and ready. And remember, I want that Chinese Army stopped before they reach the border...”

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 02 Oct 2008 20:32

Situation is now good for nishant UAV launched from truck no need of runway for recovery because of parachute landing.
and now time for reply in my view small attacks on the border road and advancing chikom and one big attack on one major city.

Ur view sir ji

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 05 Oct 2008 07:56

LEH AIRBASE
LADDAKH
DAY 3 + 0350 HRS

The small puffs of smoke left the rolling rubber as the first Mig-29 touched down on the main runway and rolled down further before slowing down. Half a minute later the aircraft was rolling onto the taxiway to the hardened shelters with full urgency. Khurana looked left and right through the cockpit glass even as he followed the small Gypsy vehicle with striped yellow-black paint job that was guiding him and his aircraft through the section of the track cleared of the debris. The view on either side of the track was not pretty...

The base was in full blackout mode and seemed quite deserted to Khurana. But with the dark night sky he could see the contrasting yellow flames of the various smouldering buildings around him. His was the first of three Fulcrums to be returning back to Leh from Avantipur after the missile attacks had pummelled the Indian defences throughout the region. The rest of the squadron was to stay at Avantipur for the time being but Leh needed its own cover. Besides, the squadron had no intention of staying at Avantipur for a minute longer than necessary.

The Mig-29 was not exactly a high endurance fighter compared with the other types in service. With limited numbers of tankers available there was no way that a decent sized CAP could be maintained constantly over Laddakh using the Mig-29s if the latter were based as far away as Avantipur. Bottom line was that Leh airbase needed to be recovered from the smoke and ashes and returned to service by morning when the first offensive strikes were to begin on the first real morning of the war.

This first flight of three was here to determine the level of the damage to the airfield’s ability to hold fighters. Khurana and the Squadron Commander were among the pilots returning now. Sure enough, Khurana jerked his head around back to see the second Mig-29 touching down behind him while the third circled overhead. Several thousand feet above the first CAP of three Fulcrums, also from the same squadron, were now taking position as the IAF began returning to the skies throughout the region.

But all of that didn’t change the reality on the ground as Khurana saw it. He could see the burning buildings on the other side of the airbase where the transports bringing in supplies were based. He also realized that this first landing had been directed under the control of an ad-hoc ATC since the original ATC building was now smoldering rubble. That was bad news as it affected the ability of large number of larger aircraft to operate effectively from the airbase. With the Army only now beginning to bring in reinforcements thanks to the lifting of political restrictions in the last half hour, they would be restricted to land routes like the Srinagar-Leh highway for the time being.

A minute later Khurana was shutting down the engines as the aircraft had come to a stop inside one of the undamaged hardened shelters. He was happy to see most of the airmen around him who had survived the attacks on the base though he also noticed some faces missing from the group. He and the Squadron Commander had been notified by the Base Commander of the losses in personnel and the list was not exactly short. In addition, the Siachen Pioneers: a helicopter squadron based on the same base, had lost two of its Cheetah helicopters on the ground during the attack as they had been down for maintenance. As Khurana jumped off the cockpit and walked out of the shelter and into the cold winds outside, he saw the loss his own squadron had suffered...

The smoke silently bellowing out of the collapsed cover of the shelter half a kilometre away was now what remained of the one damaged Fulcrum the squadron had been forced to leave behind. What was repairable damage a day ago was now a total loss. As he stood there watching the pillar of smoke rising into the starlit sky, Khurana now reflected to himself his decision to hold back his flight member two days ago when he had that J-10 in his sights.

Not again...

A few minutes later the Base Commander pulled up near the shelter after having picked up Khurana’s Squadron Commander and the trio drove away towards the Base Operations Centre as the planning began for the squadron’s role in the large IAF offensive air campaign scheduled to begin in a few hours time, now code named, Operation Phoenix...

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 05 Oct 2008 08:23

CHENGDU
SOUTHWESTERN CHINA
DAY 3 + 0400 HRS

The Chinese weren’t sitting around waiting either. Colonel Feng was back where he thought he belonged. But not for long. His bags were still packed from his trip to Beijing and he had returned along with Lt-General Chen back to the main PLAAF centre of C3I for this war. General Chen had his hands full as he had already started to coordinate the massive numbers of reinforcements that were “pouring” into his Command. It wasn’t physical inbounds, of course, only on paper. Aircraft such as the SU-27/30 did not actually have to deploy to the potentially vulnerable airbases in the region in order to be under Chen’s command. Neither did the H-6 tankers and cruise missile carrier aircraft. The only aircraft that were really forward deployed were the JH-7s, J-8IIs and a few J-10 squadrons.

The war for the PLAAF was about to begin. The cruise missile barrage had done its job and now the manned fighters would do theirs. From all indications coming in, the cruise missile attack had been a fraction of the success it was supposed to have been as far as the IAF was concerned.

Bad luck...Feng thought as he went over the numbers from the latest satellite pass over the Indian airfields. But the damage had been severe, if only for a day or two. The main idea had never been to destroy the IAF on the ground, and indeed, the idea itself was ridiculous. The main idea was to push the IAF south by destroying the infrastructure that gave them the advantage over the PLAAF. Now both sides were far from the border and had almost similar aircraft types and numbers that could be maintained over the battlefield. And that was good as far as Feng was concerned.

Overall, the PLAAF Commanders knew very well that the terrain handed the IAF a clear advnatgae of operating close to the borders. That meant that they could maintain a higher ‘aerial density’ over the battlefield. Now that density had been reduced for at least a day. Colonel Feng and General Chen had both realized long ago that if the PLAAF was going to keep the IAF from stopping the PLA convoys dead in their tracks as the headed for the border, they would have to maintain this pressure on the IAF airbases throughout the region using missiles and manned attacks. Actual destruction of IAF aircraft was secondary to the main objective, contrary to popular belief regarding air warfare. If their pilots shoot down the IAF fighters and bombers while doing their main job of attacking the airbases, then that was cream on the cake, but nothing more.

Feng looked at his watch as he put the papers away on the table inside the main command centre building. Lt-General Feng was looked up from his chair from across the table:
“When do you leave?”
“In an hour. You sure you don’t want me here?” Feng asked again.

“Of course I want you commanding the first wave of attacks when they begin, but we have another sector to handle, and the Commander there is more politics and less military. I need you to take over. I will handle this sector. You know what to do.”

Feng nodded and walked out of the office to head for the airfield where a specially ordered CRJ-200 transport was to take him to Kashgar airbase in the Sinkiang region. When he would arrive there, Feng would virtually take command of the PLAAF ground and air defences covering the PLA forces in the Aksai Chin...

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 05 Oct 2008 08:28

NORTHWEST TIBET
DAY 3 + 0424 HRS

“Copy that, Blue-One. Out” the Captain handed back the receiver to his communications expert before turning to face the others with a grin on his face that the darkness could not hide.
“What was that, sir?” one of the team-members asked out of curiosity.
“That, boys, were our orders to blow things up. Let’s move!”

vishnu.nv · Post by **vishnu.nv** » 05 Oct 2008 19:00

Vivek,

Can we use the latest Sensor Fused Weapons on the PLA columns moving ahead?

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 05 Oct 2008 21:02

hi , this is my first post on this forum.In the last few days, i read all the threads under military scenarios and i found , we have pretty good writers here. it was fun and kind of addictive. Vivek , Singha and Shankar are damn good.I find Shankar , very decisive,optimistic,self-believing and fast paced.Shankar has got the attitude of " Bring it On ,we'll kick @$$ '

He should be the Defence Minister of India.

Vivek is more of a realistic,self-restricting writer-cum-thinker , just like our politicians.

Shankar left his first scenario incomplete.Vivek has not so far completed his scenario.

Eagerly waiting.

A few points from the stories : When pak nukes Diego garcio, tries to explode dirty bombs in India , Israel takes out Paki nukes in saudi arabia and pak navy tries nuking us aircraft carrier and still the allied forces using conventional weapons

Very Unrealistic !!! After Diego garcia itself , pak should have been a nuclear wasteland or atleast all the paki armed forces top brass and isi top brass taken out in conventional cruise missile strikes in one shot.Why does not IAF use brahmos on MKi and neutralise the posts from where CHINX reinforcements are coming and then encircle and skin the chinx?

i believe in any future scenario, these cruise missiles will be heavily used to destroy the enemy military infrastructure just in the beginning , inflicting as much damage as possible.nobody is going to sit like a duck and let the enemy enter into his territory.With these cruise missiles, army does not matter.the number of tanks or soldiers , just becomes irrelevant.i think these cruise missiles will be fiercely used as a pre-emptive strike by the aggressor and then responded in kind by the defender.

Just my two cents!!! I think the wars will be pretty fast and furious .as India and China are involved and trillions of foregn dollars invested in these countries, the big guys are not going to sit quiet.

As for as china is concerned , i'll put my two cents. lets step into our leader's shoes and think ... currently China has more fx reserves than India and can easily sustain a long war and deplete India out just like Osama has depleted and bankrupted US.Secondly, China has probably thermonukes (50 of them i guess , i read on some website )startegically deployed in tibet which can hit any part of India and wht do we have .Fission based missiles , that too , whether inducted or not(agni 3 series) is a mystery and even if inducted , its not in large numbers and cannot hit beijing,shanghai , hongkong. our sea leg of nuke delivery is not yet there ,if its there,it doesnot have the range.After this nuclear deal, i think we'll have minimum detterence against CHina in abt 5-10 years.Maybe around 2020. when we have ICBMs atleast 50 ready to hit any part of China from anywhere in India , and the capacity to deliver it by submarines and we need to have around a minimum of 5 such ICBM capable submarines and then when we declare the strategic deployment of these nukes , specially to China ,then the dragon will not dare to touch India and i hope it all will become true by 2020.Given the pace of our govt machinery in taking decisions , procuring and lending an ear to our safety , 2020 is a realistic time horizon.Even by snails pace, i hope , we'll achieve it.

China is a bigger threat to India than these terrorists.Its encircling India and might even give some short range nukes to bangladesh, just the way , it did to pukis. Even when the BSF personnel were shot by the bangla rifles,i think , our govt did not threaten Bangladesh , so as not to arouse insecurity and push it to China/pak , in which case, both will be very happy and pounce on the opportunity to draw bangladesh away from india, fill in a sense of insecurity, provide some money and open a military naval port at Chittagong . I think, our leaders were far sighted.Just my two cents !!!

I think , first we need to counter China on economic front.We need to beat it at its manufacturing base.We need to draw the manufacturing industries here by upping our infrastructure and changing labour laws.

I read somewhere abt MAo that his vision was to bring the old glory back to CHINA by bringing in TAiwan,Tibet,burma,Myanmar,India all the countries in between under Chinese rule.And he believed in not fighting tthe enemy but making the enemy weak from within , so that you win by minimum fight or without fight.This is exactly wht these Chinx are doing to us.The islamic terroists have not done as much damage to our country as these MAoists in orissa, Andhra,Chhatishgarh,Jharkhand,West Bengal ...all those separatist movements in North East ,maoists now ruling Nepal and hostile to india.china has already given nukes to pukis and giving military support and keeps encouraging pak to keep us disturbed in one way or other.if we open our eyes and look , Chinese are already winning against India even without firing a single bullet.

hope i din bore anybody !!!Anyway , i will like to end it in Shankars spirit , let us kick@$$ these Chinx , bring them on ...

three cheers for Shankar !!!

mdhoat · Post by **mdhoat** » 05 Oct 2008 21:53

fxdean, you did a awesome job for a first post...Welcome to the Brfite club...

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 05 Oct 2008 23:10

It will be interesting to see how anti-ICBM technology shapes up in 10 years time frame. I believe it would be lot easier to strike down long range ICBMs easily especially if they are in small numbers and are targeting long range target like Beijing (lot of time to track and monitor)

We need Submarines which can carry nukes and strike near to china coast in event of hostilities. The idea of firing an ICBM from Indian heartland in 10-15 years targeting beijing may not be the best option.

We should be defensive in Himalayas and offensive in Sea and not the other way.

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 06 Oct 2008 13:33

AGREED .as far as china is concerned we should throttle them on the high seas and defend our teritory in Himalaya with overwhelming fire power including air assets

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 06 Oct 2008 16:47

Hi Guys,
How about this scenario to evade this massive cruise missile attack? the moment the satellites detect the cruise missiles launch, a counter punch is offered to the enemy. Somewhere near Orissa, three AGNI missiles are launched which head into space and slam into the chinese satellites. the cruise missiles lose their targets and slam into the mighty himalays. the chinese acts of aggression are deffereed and a quick salvo of brahmos give the PUNCH to the nearby army and airforce bases of the CHINx. the Chinx learn it the hard way, Indians are Smarter !!!

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 06 Oct 2008 16:48

You are starting a space war here. I don't think that will be a good option. But an interesting possibility

Hari Sud · Post by **Hari Sud** » 06 Oct 2008 16:50

Shankar & Vivek

I always thought that both of you never finish your story (Scenario). When I wrote previously about unfinished scenario, a whole lot of readers objected.

It seems I am not alone. The newcommer above feels the same way that scenarios are unfinished.

I feel that if you have no intention of finishing a scenario, do not begin.

In recently concluded scenario, Shankar has left the sea battle in the Pacific unfinished. There are a few of Indian pilots still floating in the sea somewhere in Pacific.

A year back Vivek was doing well in his battle in the Arunachal Pradesh. There was a Chinese attack on Indian air bases; also an air battle in cental Tibet had been lost by the Chinese and then he goes quite for one year or longer.

He has started a new battle all over again; this time with cruise missiles. Let us see if Vivek completes this one.

A ceasefire declared is also a conclusion. But both Shankar & Vivek have to declare one and end the scenario.

Finishing what you start is as important as you begin.

Just remember that.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 06 Oct 2008 17:04

Shankar wrote:AGREED .as far as china is concerned we should throttle them on the high seas and defend our teritory in Himalaya with overwhelming fire power including air assets

The Himlayas and the North East region IMHO is a perfect terrain for a heavy presence of armed UAVs and UGVs.

Due to the desolate terrain UGVs and remote gun posts would be a great addition to our warfighters, keeping them out of the first firing line while supplying vital recce information.
I hope that DRDO either by itself or with a tie-up with Israel starts building these machines, we should start investing heavily in unmanned technology as they would be ideally deployed in the North East and the Kashmir region, oh n btw dont forgot the Aerostats which will help in keeping a constant vigil.
In the northeast scenario a commander could get inbound co-ordinates from a UAV and then position the UGVs to give em a nice n warm welcome. I realise that mobility would be limited however if they are placed ideally then they could be used effectively to intercept infantry and ICVs.

Also maybe we should get some non lethal weapons...some sort of sticky foam mines or something, or those new stink bombs that the Israeli's have just built that way the next time chiccoms venture into the motherland they will be stuck there for hours and hours....we cant shoot em so just make their life hell without killing em.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 07 Oct 2008 15:02

All is fair in Love and war. and , we are in war here.

Vivek , where are you, buddy ? We miss you . Plz come back and kick@$$ those chinx .

hi Guys,
till Vivek posts his scenario, do i have the privilege of doing the counter attack by my sceanrio after taking out the chincx satellites ? i must also say that my writing skills are not as good as these other fellas ( they write like novels ).But atleast i can post in short , what i can think and others if they like the scenario can fill in with their writing skills?

i am really getting impatient ...

Vaibhav · Post by **Vaibhav** » 07 Oct 2008 15:26

Good Fx,

and then we are bombed to stone age by chinxs

Vaibhav · Post by **Vaibhav** » 07 Oct 2008 15:27

fxdean wrote:Hi Guys,
How about this scenario to evade this massive cruise missile attack? the moment the satellites detect the cruise missiles launch, a counter punch is offered to the enemy. Somewhere near Orissa, three AGNI missiles are launched which head into space and slam into the chinese satellites. the cruise missiles lose their targets and slam into the mighty himalays. the chinese acts of aggression are deffereed and a quick salvo of brahmos give the PUNCH to the nearby army and airforce bases of the CHINx. the Chinx learn it the hard way, Indians are Smarter !!!

We will be bombed back to stone age if we use Agni as a pre emite strick against china.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 07 Oct 2008 15:34

Vaibhav wrote:
fxdean wrote:Hi Guys,

We will be bombed back to stone age if we use Agni as a pre emite strick against china.

Only if the Chinx get the chance to do so .

username changed to durgesh.
Rahul.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 07 Oct 2008 15:39

guys can you please do a spell check before you post ?
what is the point of saying chinx everytime ? it's considered racist in many places and is not tolerated. and what is 'emite' ?
this is still BRF. it is expected that posters will maintain a minimum level of comprehensibility and standard in their posts. please keep that in mind.