Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

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ldev
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by ldev »

The maturity of these bonds will be project-linked, said sources.
Suraj,

The quote is from the article. The implication is that this facility will be for longer term project financing i.e. the regular fx reserves a/c will continue to handle normal imports but GOI envisages difficulty in term borrowings without a sovereign guarantee (even if the short term money markets return to some normalcy) which will directly impact project linked CAPEX which in turn will impact GDP growth. So in that sense, the December-January start up date is quite A-OK.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Suraj »

That makes sense alright, plus it lets them avoid the sterlization concerns with the normal mechanism. I wouldn't be surprised if they increase the corpus beyond the $1 billion set now.

I like the new RBI head D.Subbarao - he proactively cut the CRR a day ahead of major Asian and European central banks - undoing YV Reddy's recent CRR hike. Both actions were warranted at their time, but it is the speed of the action this time that struck me. With the current worldwide liquidity situation there might just be further short term/overnight rate cuts; RBI might follow up with a repo rate cut in due course.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by svinayak »

Suraj wrote:
I like the new RBI head D.Subbarao - he proactively cut the CRR a day ahead of major Asian and European central banks - undoing YV Reddy's recent CRR hike. Both actions were warranted at their time, but it is the speed of the action this time that struck me. With the current worldwide liquidity situation there might just be further short term/overnight rate cuts; RBI might follow up with a repo rate cut in due course.
India is not connected to the other trading countries and financial world compared to the western economies
India has more freedom to pull away from the norm

The EU and G7 countries have large trade and financial exchanges which require more coordination without which there will be imbalance.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Suraj »

I realize that's something you've posted several times in various threads, but it does not really make sense here. If we were disconnected from the rest of the financial world it would suggest we have the latitude to be less proactive than them, not that we have to be more so. There were a few central banks who cut rates monday (us), yesterday (e.g Chinese PBoC) and more that cut rates today, including ECB and US Fed. There was essentially a worldwide unwinding of rates over three days (which is why Vina keeps talking about bonds) - we happened to do so quite early. All I'm saying is I'm used to YV Reddy's more circumspect manner, as opposed to Subbarao's rather refreshingly proactive one. Central bankers have personalities, after all.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by svinayak »

Suraj wrote: If we were disconnected from the rest of the financial world it would suggest we have the latitude to be less proactive than them, not that we have to be more so.
India does external Commercial borrowing which pumps money in the domestic market. ECB was good when the terms were good and low interst rate from 2002-2006. Now since the cost of money has increased they have to maintain the same level of credit and money supply within the domestic market with ECB drying up. This is the challenge which can be overcome with higher returns to investment.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Suraj »

Effective interest rates themselves don't seem to be the problem - more accurately, the issue is about the current deflationary conditions; banks are unwilling to lend because increasing NPAs require them to hold greater cash as a cover. The problem is likely to be more pronounced in the western countries that bear the brunt of the current downward spiral - the US, UK, Spain being prominently, and of course, the fools in Iceland, who so shockingly overleveraged themselves to the tune of about 5x their GDP.

While western economies are very frightened about deflation (thanks to the Great Depression), the current situation does enable the US Fed to act on their bailout efforts because the rush to the safety of treasuries from equities means they can make up for the shortfall of foreign buyers of those treasuries. My take is they'll let the stock market take the hit, since it benefits their own treasury bailout issues, but will simultaneously try to act to ensure there's no significant deflationary spiral.

Here's an interesting news item on the FDI front:
Amid global crunch, India gets record FDI
According to Commerce Minister Kamal Nath, July saw inflows of $2.25 billion, which is more than a three-fold rise over the same month last year. August saw inflows of $2.32 billion, a nearly three-fold rise over the same month last year.

Nath said the inflows augured well for the Indian economy. In the first five months (April-August) of the curent fiscal, total FDI inflows more than doubled to $14.6 billion, over $6.5 billion in the same period last year.

“This is unprecedented. This is a good sign in the backdrop of the global economic situation,” Nath said.

Nath expects the annual FDI target of $35 billion for 2008-09 to be met. “Economies across the globe are linked. The global financial turmoil is likely to cause some tremors in this part of the world but the Indian economy has strong fundamentals,” Nath said.

According to the Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion (DIPP), FDI inflows in the manufacturing sector in the April-August period stood at $5 billion, over $ 1.2 billion in the same period last year.

Data show that in the manufacturing sector, FDI in metallurgical industries stood at $765 million, followed by cement and gypsum products ($627 million) and automobile ($441 million).
FDI so far this fiscal:
April: $3.75 billion
May: $3.93 billion
June: $2.39 billion
July: $2.25 billion
August: $2.32 billion
About 3-4 years ago we used to get $3-4 billion *annually* . FDI is the primary reason why I'm not so concerned about the FII pullout. The latter is expected hot money behavior anyway. However, if we report good Jul-Sep and Oct-Dec quarters, the FII tide may reverse.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by vina »

BRF Ahead of the Curve as Always.. Bade Saar was very prescient indeed. The US Financial Sector will be ALL GUVRMUND ONREE !!!
October 9, 2008
U.S. May Take Ownership Stake in Banks
By EDMUND L. ANDREWS and MARK LANDLER

WASHINGTON — Having tried without success to unlock frozen credit markets, the Treasury Department is considering taking ownership stakes in many United States banks to try to restore confidence in the financial system, according to government officials.

Treasury officials say the just-passed $700 billion bailout bill gives them the authority to inject cash directly into banks that request it. Such a move would quickly strengthen banks’ balance sheets and, officials hope, persuade them to resume lending. In return, the law gives the Treasury the right to take ownership positions in banks, including healthy ones.

The Treasury plan, still preliminary, resembles one announced on Wednesday in Britain. Under that plan, the British government would offer banks like the Royal Bank of Scotland, Barclays and HSBC Holdings up to $87 billion to shore up their capital in exchange for preference shares. It also would provide a guarantee of about $430 billion to help banks refinance debt.

The American recapitalization plan, officials say, has emerged as one of the most favored new options being discussed in Washington and on Wall Street. The appeal is that it would directly address the worries that banks have about lending to one another and to other customers.

This new interest in direct investment in banks comes after yet another tumultuous day in which the Federal Reserve and five other central banks marshaled their combined firepower to cut interest rates but failed to stanch the global financial panic.

In a coordinated action, the central banks reduced their benchmark interest rates by one-half percentage point. On top of that, the Bank of England announced its plan to nationalize part of the British banking system and devote almost $500 billion to guarantee financial transactions between banks.

The coordinated rate cut was unprecedented and surprising. Never before has the Fed issued an announcement on interest rates jointly with another central bank, let alone five other central banks, including the People’s Bank of China :shock: :shock: .

Yet the world’s markets hardly seemed comforted. Credit markets on Wednesday remained almost as stalled as the day before. Stock prices, which had plunged in Europe and Asia before the announcement, continued to plummet afterward. And stock prices in the United States went on a roller-coaster ride, at the end of which the Dow Jones industrial average was down 189 points, or 2 percent.

The gloomy market response sent policy makers and outside experts on a scramble for additional remedies to stabilize the banks and reassure investors.

There is no shortage of ideas, ranging from the partial nationalization proposal to a guarantee by the Fed of all lending between banks.

Senator John McCain, the Republican presidential candidate, on Wednesday refined his proposal — revealed in a debate with the Democratic nominee, Senator Barack Obama, the night before — to allow millions of Americans to refinance their mortgages with government assistance.

As Washington casts about for Plan B, investors are clamoring for the Fed to lower interest rates to nearly zero. Some are also calling for governments worldwide to provide another round of economic stimulus through expensive public works projects.

Yet behind the scramble for solutions lies a hard reality: the financial crisis has mutated into a global downturn that economists warn will be painful and protracted, and for which there is no quick cure.

“Everyone is conditioned to getting instant relief from the medicine, and that is unrealistic,” said Allen Sinai, president of Decision Economics, a forecasting firm in Lexington, Mass. “As hard as it is for investors and jobholders and politicians in an election year, this crisis will not end without a lot more pain.”

One concern about the Treasury’s bailout plan is that it calls for limits on executive pay when capital is directly injected into a bank. The law directs Treasury officials to write compensation standards that would discourage executives from taking “unnecessary and excessive risks” and that would allow the government to recover any bonus pay that is based on stated earnings that turn out to be inaccurate. In addition, any bank in which the Treasury holds a stake would be barred from paying its chief executive a “golden parachute” package.

Treasury officials worry that aggressive government purchases, if not done properly, could alarm bank shareholders by appearing to be punitive or could be interpreted by the market as a sign that target banks were failing.

At a news conference on Wednesday, the Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., pointedly named the Treasury’s new authority to inject capital into institutions as the first in a list of new powers included in the bailout law.

“We will use all the tools we’ve been given to maximum effectiveness,” Mr. Paulson said, “including strengthening the capitalization of financial institutions of every size.”

The idea is gaining support even among longtime Republican policy makers who have spent most of their careers defending laissez-faire economic policies.

“The problem is the uncertainty that people have about doing business with banks, and banks have about doing business with each other,” said William Poole, a staunchly free-market Republican who stepped down as president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis on Aug. 31. “We need to eliminate that uncertainty as fast as we can, and one way to do that is by injecting capital directly into banks. I think it could be done very quickly.”

Mr. Paulson acknowledged that the flurry of emergency steps had done little to break the cycle of fear and mistrust, and he pleaded for patience.

“The turmoil will not end quickly,” Mr. Paulson told reporters on Wednesday. “Neither the passage of this law nor the implementation of these initiatives will bring an immediate end to the current difficulties.”

Mr. Paulson will play host to finance ministers and central bankers from the Group of 7 countries this Friday. But he cautioned against expecting a grand plan to emerge from the gathering.

More likely, the participants will compare notes about the measures they are adopting in their own countries. David H. McCormick, Treasury’s under secretary for international affairs, said there was no “one size fits all” remedy for the crisis, though countries were cooperating through the coordinated cuts in interest rates, with guarantees on bank deposits and in regulations.

At the Federal Reserve in Washington, officials insisted they had not run out of options and made it clear they were willing to do whatever it took to shore up the economy.

Fed officials increasingly talk about the challenge they face with a phrase that President Bush used in another context: “regime change.” :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

This regime change refers to a change in the economic environment so radical that, at least for a while, economic policy makers will need to suspend what are usually sacred principles: minimal interference in free markets, gradualism and predictability. :shock: :shock:

In the last month, both the Treasury and the Fed took extraordinary steps toward nationalizing three of the biggest financial companies in the country. Last month, the Treasury took over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the giant government-sponsored mortgage-finance companies that were on the brink of collapse. A week later, the Fed took control of the American International Group, the failing insurance conglomerate, in exchange for agreeing to lend it $85 billion.

On Wednesday, the Federal Reserve announced that it would lend A.I.G. an additional $37.8 billion.

But neither the individual corporate bailouts nor the Fed’s enormous emergency lending programs — including up to $900 billion through its Term Auction Facility for banks — have succeeded in jump-starting the credit markets.

“The core problem is that the smart people are realizing that the banking system is broken,” said Carl B. Weinberg, chief economist at High Frequency Economics. “Nobody knows who is holding the tainted assets, how much they have and how it affects their balance sheets. So nobody is willing to believe that anybody else isn’t insolvent, until it’s proven otherwise.”
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Suraj »

Vina: Please post a link. Thanks.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Mathew G »

A week later, the Fed took control of the American International Group, the failing insurance conglomerate, in exchange for agreeing to lend it $85 billion.

On Wednesday, the Federal Reserve announced that it would lend A.I.G. an additional $37.8 billion
Talking of AIG:
AIG executives escaped to a pricey California beach resort to unwind just days after the insurance giant was rescued by an unprecedented US$85billion US government loan, yesterday. Invoices showed that AIG paid the Pacific Ocean getaway resort more than US$ 440 000.
link

Now what I don't understand is, the CEO of Lehman Brothers gets the firing because his company goes down. But what about these guys who got rescued by the government? They continue to live on with their high-lives?

There is something seriously wrong here.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by vina »

Suraj wrote:Vina: Please post a link. Thanks.
US May Take Ownership Stake in Banks .

Top story , right at the first in the home page of NY Times.. I wake up in the morning and get online to read the newspaper (sorry.. NY Times and Al- Hundi .. cant get the day started without them.. they are seeped right through me, despite , Al-Hundi, despite N.Ram running it) . You cant miss the story.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Mathew G »

Good news for Kerala Rubber plantation owners
New Delhi: Aided by a favourable climate, natural rubber production has risen by 27 per cent so far in this fiscal, according to a senior Rubber Board official. Overall rubber production so far has been 3.93 lakh tones compared to 3.09 lakh tonnes in the corresponding period last year. The official added that output in September increased by 21 per cent to 79,000 tonnes against 65,275 tonnes in the same month last year.

While production has gone up, so has consumption. "Consumption rose due to an increase in production and exports of tyres," the official said. During the April to September period, overall consumption increased to 4.44 lakh tonnes from 4.22 lakh tonnes during the same period a year ago, while in September alone, consumption rose marginally to 76,000 tonne from 74,590 tonne in the same period last year.

During the period under consideration, the import of natural rubber, though, declined to 36,386 tonnes from 44,247 tonnes, while export rose to 29,667 tonne from 17,398 tonne. However, imports in September have shot up by 9 per cent to 9,878 tonnes from 9,093 tonnes due to a fall in prices in the global market, while export rose marginally to 1,250 tonne from 1,166 tonne.

The Rubber Board expects the natural rubber output to touch 8.75 lakh tonnes and consumption to touch 8.99 lakh tonnes in 2008-09, while exports and imports are estimated at 50,000 tonnes and 80,000 tonnes respectively.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by SaraLax »

Mathew G wrote:Good news for Kerala Rubber plantation owners
While production has gone up, so has consumption. "Consumption rose due to an increase in production and exports of tyres," the official said. During the April to September period, overall consumption increased to 4.44 lakh tonnes from 4.22 lakh tonnes during the same period a year ago, while in September alone, consumption rose marginally to 76,000 tonne from 74,590 tonne in the same period last year.

During the period under consideration, the import of natural rubber, though, declined to 36,386 tonnes from 44,247 tonnes, while export rose to 29,667 tonne from 17,398 tonne. .
Well....the news in general is bad though....Prices are more important i suppose.

Traders say fall in rubber price to cause Rs 70 cr loss
Kochi October 08, 2008, 0:12 IST
The unprecedented fall in rubber spot prices during the last two weeks will lead to 7,000 rubber traders in Kerala losing a total sum of around Rs 70 crore, N Radhakrishnan, president, Cochin Rubber Merchants Association, said on Tuesday.

Most traders are compelled to sell their rubber stock at much lower rates as prices have slumped, he said.

Benchmark RSS-4 grade rubber shed around 33 per cent at Rs 95 per 1 kg on Tuesday, from a high of Rs 142 a month ago, he said.

“The price crash will become unbearable for most dealers because the average margin in rubber trade is just 0.50-1.00 per cent per 1 kg.”

“When prices slip by Rs 5-10 per 1 kg, such low margins become meaningless”, Radhakrishnan said.

Prices fell by Rs 18 per 1 kg over the last three working days, he added.

“Such unprecedented fall due to repercussions in international commodity and finance markets have put many rubber dealers in disarray. The user industries are either cancelling orders or absenting themselves,” he said.

The situation is so severe that a dealer who bought Indian standard natural rubber at Rs 127,000 per 1 tonne two weeks ago sold the same at Rs 90,000 on Tuesday, suffering a loss of Rs 37,000, he said.
I suppose this is good new for manufacturers for whom rubber is the main raw material and importantly, who have firm orders for their products...such as Tyre manufacturers like MRF, Apollo etc who always complain about high rubber prices.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Nayak »

Sensex crashes; rupee at record low

October 10, 2008 10:08 IST

Sensex crashed more than 1,000 points in opening trade. Asian stocks plunged too on Friday.

The rupee too fell to more than six-year low of 49.07 against the US dollar at 0940 hrs owing to deepening global financial crisis amid weak Asian stock markets.

The level was last seen in May 2002.

At the Interbank Foreign Exchange market, the domestic unit, which fell to 48.80 and closed at 47.99/48.00 on Wednesday, today lost further ground by falling by Rs 1.08 at 49.07 against the greenback.

The local unit was trading at 49.02 a dollar in early trade before trading at 49.07.

Meanwhile, exporters and economists had said that the Indian currency may fall to 50 a dollar in the next two months in the wake of global financial crisis.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Singha »

imo sensex could soon be in range of 9k-10k down another 1K.

FIIs have their pants on fire and are selling everything to stay afloat.
they drove 80% of the stock boom.

retail investors and speculators got squeezed and sold off. more are
selling off in capitulation mode to book capital gains losses.

we could reach the 7500 level seen in 2005 when the boom took off.
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Alert ..... !

Post by SaraLax »

The unexpected 100 basis points reduction in CRR by the RBI today (in addition to the already provided 50 basis point CRR reduction effective from tomorrow) soon after BSE nose dived by 1000 points in the morning might make sense if we consider that it might have been to help mitigate the sudden liquidity problem faced by a certain commercial Bank that appears to have required a big amount of money for taking care of its immediate liabilities. The RBI posisbly reduced just the CRR for now to free up some money for Banks themselves first (without bringing down the Bank Rates that might have helped the lower levels of the economy ).

If its OK to try playing Id'ing the Bank/Telco/Realty Biggies being mentioned in the articles.....
Here's my guess for them ( ICICI / RCom / Realty player is tuf..all RE stocks in distress presently and i would think this might be one among DLF/Unitech/IndiaBulls Realty).

[Admins]....if you think this guessing game is unnecessary and not appropriate..please edit this post as required

Absolutely - I have edited it out. Please do NOT use this time to spread hysteria about unnamed companies being in trouble. When we are in the midst of by far the worst market meltdown in history, the last thing we need is this kind of rumour mongering.
Last edited by Suraj on 10 Oct 2008 21:06, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to remove sensationalist news bereft of details
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by SaraLax »

There we go..ICICI is slipping today ..... Down 25% at one point of time...21% down as of posting time

ICICI Bank plunges 26 per cent
MUMBAI: ICICI Bank, India's biggest private bank, fell more than 26 per cent on Friday as investors were concerned by its potential exposure to the global financial crisis dumped its shares.

Even re-assuring comments from the ICICI management on its liquidity status failed to restore investor sentiment. In an emergency press meet, Chanda Kocchar, CMD of ICICI Bank, said, "We have enough liquidity even in international operations."

The shares touched a low of Rs 333, down 26.57 per cent, their lowest in more than three years, taking 2008 losses to 72 per cent.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Singha »

I can forsee a depositor panic and run on its retail branches this week.....hmmm
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Dileep »

I talked to the HDFC guy about the ICICI panic. He says that many people ask him about it. His response is a question. "How much money you have there?" If the amount is significant, he will say "I don't think they will go down, but why take risk? Move it to my branch!!"

FWIW, I still believe and reiterate that the day your ICICI deposit is valueless, the piece of paper with Gandhi's face on it will also be valueless, and I will be growing tapoica.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Nayak »

Dileep-saar, vanilla is a better option. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Tanaji »

Dileep,

There is a different aspect as well. Lets say a bank goes under, and the govt has assumed full responsibility for covering the deposits, so everyone gets their money back. But there is a time period when you get this money, and more importantly the hassle involved in it. Can you imagine the amount of forms and baksheesh the babus will make you go through to get your own money? Instead the depositor will say, why take the risk and the hassle, let me move my money, if only its to save the hassle.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by SaraLax »

SaraLax wrote:There we go..ICICI is slipping today ..... Down 25% at one point of time...21% down as of posting time

ICICI Bank plunges 26 per cent
MUMBAI: ICICI Bank, India's biggest private bank, fell more than 26 per cent on Friday as investors were concerned by its potential exposure to the global financial crisis dumped its shares.

Even re-assuring comments from the ICICI management on its liquidity status failed to restore investor sentiment. In an emergency press meet, Chanda Kocchar, CMD of ICICI Bank, said, "We have enough liquidity even in international operations."

The shares touched a low of Rs 333, down 26.57 per cent, their lowest in more than three years, taking 2008 losses to 72 per cent.
On back of some positive recommendation for ICICI Bank, the stock has recovered and is down 17+% at this point of time.
The government on Friday said there is no problem with the leading private sector lender ICICI Bank, shares of which tumbled more than 20 per cent in the early trade, while the bank asserted it had adequate rupee liquidity.

"We do not see any problem with the ICICI Bank," said a senior Finance Ministry official, adding, all Indian banks are well-capitalised and well-regulated.
But RCom has slipped ... 23% down up to now for the day. Indiabulls reality is also down 21+% for the day.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Suraj »

Good move on the RBIs part to proactively drive liquidity back into the system. The 100bp cut is significant, coming days after a 50 bp cut. One of the things about such drastic moves is that while it underlines that there's a significant worldwide liquidity crisis, the Indian financial system is not leveraged to such a tipping point that *any* sudden movement is catastrophic due to the threat of massive leveraged positions in either direction unwinding. Instead, the situation is one of a general liquidity problem, giving RBI room to make significant cuts. The significant rate hikes of the past (which we then decried) now give us greater headroom to cut rates as well.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by vsudhir »

How much has Desi realty fallen in this crisis? IIRC, if banks have significant exposure to loans in the equities and realty sector and the crisi is hammering these sectors a lot, then some or even many of these loans could turn bad leading toa crisis here.

But thanks to the RBIs stringent regulation, me doubts desi bank exposure is anywhere near irredeemable levels. Some smaller banks and co-op banks could run into rough weather though.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Dileep »

Nayak, ever tried eating vanilla? In midlands, you need tapioca or rice to eat. The only land I have is suitable for the former onlee.

Tanaji, I am not talking about gov't re-paying the accounts. ICICI simply can't fail. So, the gov't will always bail it out. There will be no freeze for retail customers.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by vina »

vsudhir wrote:How much has Desi realty fallen in this crisis? IIRC, if banks have significant exposure to loans in the equities and realty sector and the crisi is hammering these sectors a lot, then some or even many of these loans could turn bad leading toa crisis here.

But thanks to the RBIs stringent regulation, me doubts desi bank exposure is anywhere near irredeemable levels. Some smaller banks and co-op banks could run into rough weather though.
Crisis ? What Crisis ? The real estate guys in India have been maintaining for the past year that there is "No" crisis whatsoever ! . KREDAI (Karnataka Real Eastate Developers Assoc) until recently has been steadfastly maintaing so. The big developers try to put on a brave face and try to be Paki like by quoting prices from 1 year ago (launch price /whatever) as if the world is frozen in the last year :lol: :lol: .

The point is this. There are strong and persistent rumors in the market (dont ask me how I know) that a couple of major developers are facing strong cash crunch and were banking on Private Equity to bail them out when the stock markets started beating down real estate stocks. The point is this. Emaar MGF was an eye opener That ridiculous valuation (I had decried that as Wampum here at BR) made it collapse and it was withdrawn and after I doubt any real estate stock has IPOed.

The real estate guys have not woken up and smelled the coffee. They are living in their dream world of 50% to 35% operating margins and strong growth year on year. They are committing suicide on the way , with liquidity seeping away . Now they are asking the banks to rollover their debt.

With the precarious state at which ICICI is, one deliquency /default from any real estate biggie will simply crush the bank, because of the shock, depositers will rush to the branches and the fear of more such to come. They will immediately foreclose and take possession.

The problem is that the bank , even if it takes posession will not be able to dispose off the asset? .This aint the US where you buy a fully built house only?.. What will you do with a building with 4 floors out of the 9 built and that too with huge violations of every rule in the book and no prospect of any owner or renter being able to move in.

Most of the places in ORR in Bangalore is full of scams and massive scams. I fear that many of the huge multi storeys in Sarjapur /ORR will come to a screeching halt and will remain as derelict hulks for many many years before being complete.

The ridiculously priced OMR developments in Chennai have simply collapsed. Very few of those guys (if any) have been able to sell the critical number of apts per development , necessary to be able to complete.. The guys who put in the money are going to ask for the money back. That is when the music will stop and the musical chairs show will be complete.

ICICI's problem is not the current , but what will happen when the real estate freezes in India 6 months down the line.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Singha »

but arent most of the money taken by builders from the unofficial sector like politicians and
pvt lenders? deep pocketed people by the nature of their work these lenders. but they can
make defaulters feel pain very quickly.

the risk of defaults by retail home loan borrowers is quite low in India at the moment - unless
there is mass layoffs in middle levels of ITvity.

I shot down my SHQs idea to trade in our santro and lease a civic at this moment. purely
living in dreamworld these SHQs and a impulse based on a neighbour getting a new bigger
car.

now is not the time to increase debt.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Suraj »

Bloomberg is finally quoting a more realistic GDP value, after years of parroting some $900B+change figure.
India's Central Bank Head Subbarao Is Ready for `Swift' Steps to Boost Liquidity
Indian central bank Governor Duvvuri Subbarao said he's prepared to take ``effective'' steps to maintain liquidity in the nation's credit markets and repeated the bank's policy of smoothing swings in the currency.

We ``stand ready to take appropriate, effective and swift action'' to provide liquidity, he told reporters yesterday in Washington, where he was attending a meeting of Group of 20 finance ministers and central bankers. He said India's economy is ``strong'' and its banks are ``sound'' and ``well capitalized.''

India yesterday made the steepest cut since 2001 in the amount of cash lenders must set aside as reserves to kick-start the $1.2 trillion economy, as the rupee plunged to an all-time low and overseas investors dumped emerging-market stocks. The drop in the cash-reserve ratio followed a reduction on Oct. 6.

Subbarao, 59, declined to comment on interest-rate policy, saying that ``all variables are up for review'' at the Reserve Bank of India's Oct. 24 policy meeting. While the latest figures on inflation are ``quite comforting,'' it is ``still too early to let the vigil slip'' on prices, he said.

India's inflation has slowed to a 15-week low of 11.8 percent, according to the latest government figures, though it is still more than double the central bank's target.

Steps taken so far to improve liquidity in the Indian financial system amount to as much as $22 billion, Subbarao said.

The governor also said that in the medium term, India's rupee ``should be determined by market fundamentals.'' The RBI's policy, to ``manage exchange-rate volatility'' rather than take a view on its level, ``should continue to serve us well,'' he said.

`Knock-On Effect'

Indian markets are experiencing a ``knock-on effect'' from the global financial crisis, because the country's banks have no direct exposure to U.S. sub-prime mortgages, Subbarao said. The RBI's priorities include ``managing inflation while maintaining the growth momentum,'' and financial stability has become another objective over the last three months, he said.

Subbarao this week rushed to free up cash after money-market rates surged to an 18-month high and financial stocks slumped. ICICI Bank Ltd., the Indian lender with the biggest losses on overseas investments, dropped by a record on Oct. 10, forcing the bank to reiterate it had sufficient funds.

Some economists predict the RBI may follow central banks worldwide and cut interest rates as inflation pressures ease and the worsening global crisis begins to weaken economic growth.

``India has been cautious in its reaction until now,'' Swaminathan Aiyar, a Cato Institute research fellow with a focus on Asia, said in Washington. ``Subbarao clearly believes in balance'' between the policy objectives of growth and inflation. ``A rate cut is coming.''

Rescue Plans

Subbarao, who took over as RBI governor a month ago, said the problems and perspectives of countries directly affected by the global financial crisis are ``quite different'' from those of nations like India that are affected indirectly.

Relief and rescue plans announced by advanced countries so far don't include components in which peripheral countries such as India could participate, he said.

Still, India would ``hope to be included and involved in the design and implementation'' of such an effort, should there be a need, he said.
Indian Factory Output Grows at Slowest Pace on Record In August
India's industrial production grew at the weakest pace on record as interest rates at a seven-year high damped consumer spending and companies cut output amid the global credit crisis.

Output at factories, utilities and mines rose 1.3 percent in August from a year earlier after a revised 7.4 percent gain in July, the Central Statistical Organization said in New Delhi today. Economists surveyed estimated an increase of 6 percent.

``The record high interest rates are taking a toll on consumer spending,'' Ramya Suryanarayanan, an economist at DBS Bank Ltd. in Singapore. ``The outlook going forward is looking very, very bad as the global turmoil will exacerbate India's problems.''

Production fell the most since the current index was first compiled in 1994. Manufacturing, which accounts for about 80 percent of total output, gained 1.1 percent in August from 8 percent in July. Electricity output rose 0.8 percent in August from 4.5 percent. Capital goods production rose 2.3 percent, a tenth of the pace of July.

Bonds rose, causing the yield on the benchmark 10-year note to fall 25 basis points to 7.73 percent as of 12:20 p.m. in Mumbai. The Sensitive Index of stocks plunged 9.4 percent, and is poised for its worst week in almost 18 years.
This seems more like a blip; exports grew 28% in August, and the festival season approaches. July/August also saw both the peak of oil prices (topping at $147/barrel, now down to <$80/barrel) and inflation (now down to 11.6%).
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by satya »

As per Mint , ICICI's CDS are trading at 900 basis points ! , is this pure market fear or 'information asymmetry' ? Also in same article , Mint gave more than ample hints tht it was ICICI tht took 1000 crores at 20% interest in overnight's market . IIRC, as per news articles quarter of all ICICI's loans are in real estate in compare to 12% something for other banks .
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Singha »

apparently indian banks borrowed 90K cr of overnight money on friday, 30k more
than the 60k which got released by the CRR easing by RBI on thursday.

thats said to be the shortage of liquidity in current market - 30k

but as usual, many figures and theories will fit the circumstances in these
wild times.

if there is a run on ICICI deposits, GOI will have to respond with massive MLRS
firepower and bet everything to save both ICICI and prevent the panic runs on
PSU banks and HDFC bank.

there could be riots and blood on streets next week if fear is not controlled.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by vina »

The news that ICICI borrowed a 20% (was there large scale redemptions /withdrawls at some of it's foreign branches ,..UK ??) and that it has a loan for $150m or $250m at PT Bumi , when Indonesia was literally massacred and looks extremely fragile , must have been the trigger for the stock to tank 25%.

And ICICI management's response ..to parrot the same old tired cliches of "vested interests", that they did earlier. This time, far harder questions are going to be asked. And no sir, they are not going to be able to sweep this under the carpet by acting with injured innocence and a sense of outrage and wrong. That kind of bluff isnt going to work.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Singha »

they will have to disclose the full details of their foreign holdings for investors to regain
confidence if such is warranted.

else the slow bleed is not going to stop. the time is long gone I agree when speaking
in clipped english in suits at marbled lobbies is going to impress or soothe anyone.

we have seen how the real gora "in charge" massas up in NYC have done and our
local goras and ibankers dont seem to inspire much faith in the hoi-polloi :rotfl:
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by vina »

If that dumb credin in that HCL ad who squeaks "Mr HCL!!" is any indication , however remote of a streotypical desi i-banker, god save us. !

But frankly that HCL ad is ridiculous. I dont even know what they want to achieve with that kind of ad, toher than trying to claim that they are so posh that do everything under the sun and are literally hot sh*t . And in these circumstances, the entire projection of i-bankers as the kind of guys to impress is ridicoulous.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by bart »

Yeah, that was one stupid ad. Its smirks of arrogance and the pompous way the HCL guy (probably earning 10 L per year) was trying to make fun of the investment banker (who probably earns 4-5 C per year) was just ridiculous.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Kakkaji »

Swapan Dasgupta in dailypioneer.com. Posting in full since the URL may not be archived:

The so bad and yet so ‘good’ FM
Swapan Dasgupta

The precipitate fall of the Sensex, a double-digit inflation that refuses to go away, a high interest rate regime, nervousness over the future of a large retail bank and definite signs of an industrial recession should have made life hellish for P Chidambaram. Instead, the smooth-talking Finance Minister has been showered dollops of consideration and generosity by a media that loves to be very cruel to Home Minister Shivraj Patil. Whether this is due to genuine belief that India is merely suffering collateral damage of a global crisis or the unwritten rule that the Finance Minister is off limits for an otherwise insolent tribe, is a matter of conjecture.

Yet, having been barraged for the past four years by sermons from visiting investment bankers, venture capitalists and other clever things who spend many months each year in transit about how wonderful it is to have PC at the helm in North Block, I am disgustedly inclined to draw some fearful lessons from the past. The last occasion Chidambaram was parked in North Block (between 1996 and 1998), he bequeathed to his successors a thoroughly mismanaged economy. This, despite presenting what many called the “super Budget” of 1997 — one publication even portrayed him as the Tamil Manila Superman. As the UPA Government approaches the final months of its natural life, it seems more than likely that Chidambaram will present his successor an urn containing the last remains of Incredible India. If the first time was a tragedy, the second time will be a catastrophe.

The PC Fan Club, which includes every Limousine Liberal of the land, will undoubtedly consider the prognosis to be preposterous. How can an Indian Finance Minister be blamed for a global earthquake whose epicentre is in Wall Street, New York? If anything, they argue, India would have been much worse off if PC hadn’t been at the wheel talking-up the economy each day, telling everyone that India’s fundamentals are robust and that high growth is not a pipedream. It is a different matter that the assumption of double-digit growth that moulded this year’s freebies Budget has been quietly revised southwards.

The starry-eyed admiration of the Finance Minister is not surprising. Like the fat bonus-earners on Wall Street who liked taking risks with other people’s money, Chidambaram reintroduced the culture of profligate government spending. He had a strictly non-proprietorial unconcern for taxpayers’ money believing, like the Wall Street triumphalists, that the flow was endless. The merchants of greed created a galaxy of complex instruments to make reckless gambling appear legitimate and banked on over-valued assets, Chidambaram diverted money from crucial areas like infrastructure creation and channelled it into non-asset building activities like NREG and loan-waiver. If derivatives were the curse of rogue capitalism, Chidambaram used some magical sleight of hand to transfer his revenue liabilities outside the Budget. If the Lehman Brothers and the AIGs were burdened by crippling liabilities born out of profligacy, Chidambaram has left India with a fiscal deficit that is in excess of 10 per cent of GDP. The US bailout package will burden American taxpayers handsomely and Chidambaram’s fiscal profligacy has contributed to soaring inflation, reduced liquidity and a general slowdown. The RBI is concerned that increasing liquidity could add to inflationary pressures but it doesn’t have the gumption to tell the Finance Minister to reduce government spending in an election year.

Once the dust settles on this latest crisis of capitalism, we are likely to see a much-needed return of conservative financial practices and, hopefully, a modification of greed. In India, our only realistic expectation is to ensure that governments don’t spend more than what they earn. This involves making governance more transparent and accountable. Narendra Modi has also tried to make governance more efficient but this is too much to ask from a political leadership that equates public money with private funds.

The Wall Street meltdown has shown the folly of being misguided by jargon, abstruse math and smooth talk; in India, we have been alerted to the fact that just because the media says that the Finance Minister is great doesn’t mean the Indian economy is in the pink of health.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Neshant »

They have mismanaged their business and now want free money. They are trying to pull off a bailout ripoff scheme as American financials have in the US. There is no reason the govt should be handing out taxpayers money to private corporations.

Once it starts, there will be no end to it as we see in the US. Every industry will come knocking for a bailout.

-------
Crisis hits India: Airlines seek $1bn bailout

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cris ... 585353.cms

BANGALORE: The global credit meltdown has hit home, and how. India's beleaguered airline sector has become the first industry to seek an official bailout from the government. The Federation of Indian Airlines (FIA) has asked for a $1 billion (about Rs 5,000 crore) interest-free loan from the government to tide over the current crisis in addition to many other fiscal sops and easing of regulatory measures.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Singha »

thats correct in principle but what do you say to the fact that IA and AI survived on multiple
bailouts and govt patronage over the years? isnt that a waste of public money?

if any pkg is given it must be equally for all airlines.

9W is stopping its mumbai-shanghai-SFO ops from Jan13 in view of worsening business
conditions.

TOI reports a 25% drop in travel bookings for foreign tourists in India.

discretionary spending like tourism is surely going to be badly affected.

I would love to see undeservedly hyper expensive places like orange country
and the serai in coorg hit the mat. and the Leela ofcourse - my pet peeve.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by sugriva »

Singha wrote:thats correct in principle but what do you say to the fact that IA and AI survived on multiple bailouts and govt patronage over the years? isnt that a waste of public money?
Realise that there is a difference. In the case of IA and AI, the government is the owner aka promoter of the company. How can one stop the promoter of a company from injecting capital into his company. Private airlines cannot come and request for bailouts. If however they in true capitalism style come and give an equity stake in their companies to the government then government should consider the request.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by vina »

Nice joke about "Springfields" apt complex in Bangalore. A few weeks ago while I was scoping out the scene there, I mentioned the name of the developer IDEB builders to one of my colleagues at work. He laughed and said something.. Next time at the entrance, park your car facing the road and read the name in your rear view mirror. It is BEDI my friend and he laughed.. Very true. I guess that since he is a Punjabi from Delhi, he immediately recognized the scam from the look and feel of the folks out there. Does anyone know what the status of the Springfield things is.. I wouldnt be surprised if the Dilli folks there had Musharaffian Kanadian Vijas lined up as the exit strategy

About Divyasree Elan, there is a bigger joke. Everytime you ask , they put on an act and claim,. Oh.. we are sold out.. But wait a minute.. since you are from company X, we have the last 3 from our own quota and we can give you one of those.. at Rs XXXX per sq ft.. Choose one of the three. A, B &C :rotfl: :rotfl: .. Nice try.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Muppalla »

A nice detailed summary of India's liquidity crisis:

Liquidity crisis: where has all the money gone?

In its 73-year history, RBI has never announced a second round of CRR cut even before the first cut takes effect — something it did last week


A one and a half percentage points cut in banks’ cash ratio (CRR), which defines the amount of cash that commercial banks need to keep with the Reserve Bank of India (RBI), infused Rs60,000 crore into the liquidity-starved Indian financial system on Saturday.

There have been occasions in the past when CRR was cut by more than one and half a percentage points. For instance, in November 2001, it was cut by one and a three-quarter percentage points to 5.75% and in July 1974, the cut was even sharper—two percentage points, to 5%. But in its 73-year history, RBI has never announced a second round of CRR cut even before the first cut takes effect—something it did last week.

This shows the seriousness with which the Indian central bank is viewing the liquidity crisis. Till recently, the system had plenty of money. In fact, RBI had to raise CRR by one and a half percentage points in stages since April to drain excess money that was stoking inflation.

Where has all the money gone?
What is the root of the sudden liquidity crunch?

The main source of money in the system in the past two years has been RBI’s dollar buying. The seemingly unending dollar flow pushed the level of the local currency to 39.20 early this year. An appreciating rupee hurts the competitiveness of exporters as their real income in rupee term goes down. So, RBI was buying dollars from the market to stem the rise of the rupee and, for every dollar it bought, an equivalent amount in rupees was injected into the system.

As a result of this, India’s foreign exchange reserve rose to a record $316 billion (Rs1.75 trillion) in May. At the same time, the rupee liquidity in the system increased phenomenally. The excess liquidity was mopped up by the banking regulator through a series of hikes in CRR and floatation of special bonds under the monetary stabilization scheme or MSS. Under this scheme, RBI floated dated securities as well as short-term treasury bills which were not part of the government’s annual borrowing programme to raise money to bridge the fiscal deficit.

RBI is not buying dollars any more as the supply has dried up. It is, in fact, selling dollars to protect the sharp erosion in the value of the local currency as a weak rupee increases the cost of import and adds to the inflation. The rupee has lost some 18% since January and at Friday’s lowest level (49.30 to a dollar), the deprecation was more than 20%.

In October, RBI has been infusing about Rs75,000 crore daily into the system. While RBI’s dollar buying added to the rupee liquidity in the financial system, for every dollar it sells now, an equivalent amount of rupees is sucked out of the system. In October alone, the market estimates that the central bank has sold at least $5 billion. The latest data shows that for the week ended 3 October, India’s foreign exchange reserve declined by $7.8 billion—the highest in a week in past two years—to $283.9 billion. Both dollar sale and revaluation of global currencies contributed to the fall in reserves.

Overall, India’s foreign exchange reserve has gone down by more than 10% or $32 billion since May, signalling RBI’s presence in the currency market as a seller.

RBI needs to supply dollar in the market as other sources are fast drying up. Foreign institutional investors or FIIs, the main drivers of Indian equity markets, have sold Indian stocks worth $10.18 billion this year, net of buying, after pumping in $17.36 billion in 2007. The volume of Indian firms’ overseas borrowing is also coming down sharply as money is becoming more expensive overseas following the global credit crisis. Finally, exporters, who earn dollars and sell them in the local market, too do not have too much of greenback in their kitty as most of them sold their dollar receivables in the forward market, apprehending further appreciation of the rupee. The trend has reversed and they have been caught off-guard.
The only source of dollar at this point is foreign direct investment (FDI) but that can take care of a very small part of the demand. On the other hand, importers are buying dollar aggressively as they fear rupee can depreciate further.

In the first five months of the fiscal year, between April and August, the trade deficit or the gap between the cost that India incurred for importing goods, including oil, and its earnings on exports is close to $51 billion and it has been rising every month.

For instance, in July the trade deficit was $10.79 billion and it rose to $13.94 billion in August. Even if the trade deficit remains at the August level, RBI needs to sell about $690 million daily in the foreign exchange market in the absence of any other supplier.

RBI’s dollar sale is only one of the causes of the liquidity crunch. Oil and fertilizer firms seem to be the biggest guzzler of bank credit, which has risen 24.8% year-on-year till 10 October.
Oil marketing firms need money to bridge the gap between the cost of importing oil and the price at which the product is sold in the domestic market. The government is supposed to take care of the deficit by issuing oil bonds to these firms. The deficit for the past year was some Rs14,000 crore and despite the 50% fall in international crude prices from its peak, this year’s deficit could be around Rs25,000 crore. Since the government has not issued oil bonds yet, the banking system is bearing the burden.

Similarly, banks have also been lending big money to fertilizer firms since government subsidy has not yet been released. This amount could be as much as Rs30,000 crore. The banking system has not yet been reimbursed by the government of the Rs66,477 crore farm loan waiver and debt relief that was completed in June.

The pressure on banking system has further been aggravated by the problems faced by a section of the Indian mutual fund industry—the so-called liquid funds which invest in money market instruments. Some of these funds have invested in short-term commercial papers (CPs) and certificate of deposits (CDs) issued by non-banking finance companies (NBFCs) and in real estate companies to earn high returns. They have also invested in asset-backed securities and bought pools of retail loans in the form of truck finance, car loans, etc. These securities, known as pass through certificates or PTCs, offer higher interest but are illiquid and the funds bear the default risk. Banks were parking their excess money in these funds but now, facing a liquidity crunch, they are withdrawing money from such funds. This is shrinking the size of the funds and, at the same time, drying up resources for firms that were raising money through CPs and CDs. They are now turning to banks for funds, adding to the liquidity pressure.

In August, liquid funds were managing assets worth Rs89,000 crore, about 18% of total assets under management of the Indian mutual fund industry. According to industry estimates, in the past one week, Rs30,000 crore has been withdrawn from liquid and other debt funds, and in the past three months, the withdrawal could be as much as Rs1 trillion.

Finally, the growing mistrust among global banks and their refusal to lend to each other is also affecting domestic liquidity. Most large Indian banks, both state-run as well as private ones, have an overseas presence. The aggressive ones have been building assets overseas by rolling over their liabilities, raised from the inter-bank market. But these money lines are now fast drying up and it is difficult to replenish them as overseas banks are not rolling over the credit any more even though the London inter-bank offered rate (Libor), an international benchmark for interest rate, is soaring. So, if an Indian bank faces a liquidity crunch abroad, it is now being forced to borrow from India, convert the money into foreign currency, and then quickly export the funds to support the bank’s overseas operations.

Last Friday, the government cancelled auctions of two bonds slated to raise Rs10,000 crore but, sooner or later, it has to enter the market as part of its borrowing programme (around Rs39,000 crore) is left to be completed this fiscal year. So, the pressure on liquidity can only rise. How does RBI tackle the crisis? Apart from cutting CRR, it has been infusing money through its repurchase or repo window every day. Under this arrangement, banks borrow from RBI at 9%, offering government bonds as collaterals.

In October, on average, RBI has been infusing about Rs75,000 crore daily into the system.
Theoretically, RBI can cut CRR to zero in stages and the seven and a half percentage point cut—the current level of CRR—can infuse Rs3 trillion in the system. This allows RBI to sell about $60 billion in the foreign exchange market, at the current rupee-dollar exchange rate, to support the local currency. This is little more than 20% of the country’s foreign exchange reserves and double of what RBI has sold since May.

MSS bonds can also be unwound to create liquidity. The outstanding MSS bonds are worth Rs1.73 trillion. Unwinding these bonds will release liquidity not for the entire system but for those banks that had bought the MSS bonds.

However, RBI cannot do this because Indian banks are required to invest certain portion of their deposits in government bonds known as SLR (statutory liquidity ratio— or the ratio of their funds that banks are required to maintain in liquid instruments) securities.

Under the law, 25% of bank deposits must be invested in SLR bonds. RBI has recently brought down the level to 24%, offering a temporary relief to banks. If RBI wants to buy back MSS bonds from banks, their SLR level will go down below 24%. So, along with the CRR cut, RBI also needs to bring down the SLR requirement to free up money.

RBI can also open a special repo window for mutual funds, large NBFCs and housing finance firms, and money can be offered in exchange of AAA-rated securities as collaterals. This will not only ease the pressure on the banking system but also avert the impending collapse of some of the funds and NBFCs. Unlike banks, mutual funds have very small capital base and some of the liquid funds may see their entire capital being wiped out by losses.

Once the government gets Parliament’s nod for oil bonds and subsidy for fertilizer firms and reimburses banks for the farm loan waiver package, money will flow into the system. Besides, this will enable the oil marketing firms to buy dollars directly from RBI, pledging the bonds, easing the pressure on the foreign exchange market.

In a late night statement on Friday, RBI governor D. Subbarao said the central bank “has taken action to inject liquidity into the system as warranted by the situation” and it is “ready to take appropriate, effective and swift action”.

The challenge before RBI now, apart from injecting liquidity, is to break the expectation of a daily depreciating rupee. It has been selling dollars every day in the past few weeks and the pattern of its intervention is predictable, allowing the foreign exchange market to form a view on the currency. This needs to be broken fast. With $284 billion in its kitty, the fourth largest foreign currency chest outside the Euro zone, after Japan, China and Russia, it can afford to be bold in its currency management strategy which is now inseparable from liquidity management.

Tamal Bandyopadhyay keeps a close eye on all things banking from his perch as the Mumbai bureau chief of Mint. Please email comments to [email protected]
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (June 8 2008)

Post by Sanjay M »

India's surrogate mother industry

By Poonam Taneja
BBC News, Anand, Gujarat
Locked