Indian Missile Technology Discussion

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Vikram_S
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Vikram_S » 28 Oct 2008 02:12

Agree, about Babur ..that it is based on the Chineese one but Raad seems to be of latest design with stealth incorporated.

1> what is baburs stealth property?
2>what do u mean by latest design
3>this is not a baccha forum where u can make silly claims w/o evidence


I am not saying that these are 100% developed by PAK..so is our Brahmos too not 100% Indian..


india contribution to brahmos is fire control+launcher for navy, FCS+Comms MALs+TEL for army+ manufacturing of airframe+ navigation.

what is pak contribution to babur sontu-expert?

but I am talking about the quick turn around time from concept to induction and we have all projects delaying ...for years.

ever heard of the difference between buying off the shelf and makng ur own things?

its a very "complicated concept".

but understand it. we r not pakistan.

pakistans incredible track record (since 1947):

1:lost all wars
2:yet to make a single radar, rwr, jammer, or anything complicated
3:claims to be a nuclear power and ran to china after chagai tests (why? uncle hu design not working?)

and now RAAD has stealth technology (while US was struggling with JASSM) and it is master @ operationalizing equipment.

it actually shows ur entire knowledge base that ur comparing india to the nation of congenital inbreds and retards.

cheers.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Rahul M » 28 Oct 2008 02:20

vikram and sontu stop responding to each other. use the ignore function if need be.
do take this request seriously.
vikram, if you can't respond without flaming you don't have to.

but understand it. we r not pakistan.

these type of spelling is not ok on BR. I've already asked once.
Rahul.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby anishns » 28 Oct 2008 02:21

Sontu wrote:Raad seems to be of latest design with stealth incorporated.


ooooh! the SDREs are already cowering in their dhotis.... are u happy now? :rotfl:
Stealth Incorporated.....my a$$, just like their Space program is light years ahead of ISRO...

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Vikram_S » 28 Oct 2008 02:26

Anishns

the raad is so stealthy, that almost no evidence of it being tested exists.
the only evidence is poor resolution image of mirage 3 carrying super sophisticated RAAD and then animated gif of RAAD flying.

super stealth stuff. it reminds me of a malayalam movie in which mammootty designs next gen fighter aircraft on MSPaint and then is pursued by ISI.

but the case of pakistani weapons ddevelopment beats anything from bollywood, tollywood, kollywood, and sandalwood.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby anishns » 28 Oct 2008 02:32

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Vikram_S wrote:Anishns

the raad is so stealthy, that almost no evidence of it being tested exists.
the only evidence is poor resolution image of mirage 3 carrying super sophisticated RAAD and then animated gif of RAAD flying.

super stealth stuff. it reminds me of a malayalam movie in which mammootty designs next gen fighter aircraft on MSPaint and then is pursued by ISI.

but the case of pakistani weapons ddevelopment beats anything from bollywood, tollywood, kollywood, and sandalwood.


I guess Raa*d missile will most likely be used to arm the B-3 Bomber!
Anyway, lets take this topic to the humour thread before the Admin's predator is airborne

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Vikram_S » 28 Oct 2008 02:37

:rotfl:

anish, thanks: " guess Raa*d missile will most likely be used to arm the B-3 Bomber!"

i just realised that pakistan named its new missile most correctly.

it is a perfect representation of pakistan in every sense. what a difference one letter does make.

PAF air chief: tumhare paas brahmos hain, magar.....humhare paas "raa*d hain".

:mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Sontu » 28 Oct 2008 02:41

Some one said, "There is no rule in Love and War"
And exactly same PAK/China doing ..they are acquiring everything they need from Uranium enrichment to Ballistic and Cruise missiles by any means or ways.

Secondly “We have not learned yet from our past mistakes in 1962” that is “Never ever underestimate your opponent “

Looks my friend needs a Babur/Raad fired on his head..to believe that it was real :-)

Rahul..I had few technical questions regarding ALCM version of Brahmos…if needed please delete the entire episode.

Thanks,

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby anishns » 28 Oct 2008 02:48

Sontu wrote:Secondly “We have not learned yet from our past mistakes in 1962” that is “Never ever underestimate your opponent “


Sontu,

I would be enthralled if you could please enlighten us on our past mistakes of 1962. But, this is niether the thread nor the topic for this discussion. Meanwhile, I suggest please do not derail this thread with unnecessary banter.

This thread is exclusively for Indian Missile Technology, if you would like to discuss PAK/Chinese capabilities and Indian war history, a little bit of pointing and clicking would take you to the right thread, where I am sure us fellow BRfites can clear your conceptions/misconceptions once and for all.

Best regards and a happy diwali. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Vikram_S » 28 Oct 2008 02:57

Looks my friend needs a Babur/Raad fired on his head..to believe that it was real

when i was taking my car out yesterday, a bird dumped on it. next time it happens, i will immediately turned towards pak, and cursed it for babur'ing or raad'ing my windsheild wiper.

thanks to you sontu, i am now aware.

but still unaware of pakistans contribution to ANY missile program or babur or Raad.

btw, for serious ppl:

ARES BLOG AVIATIONWEEK:The Name Remains The Same
Posted by Douglas Barrie at 8/28/2008 12:16 PM CDT

Image

Bill Sweetman adds: Also, take a look at the BrahMos displayed in Moscow last week:

Doesn't that look like a very heavy coat of paint for something that's supposed to spend its life in a sealed container? More than paint, perhaps - probably radar or IR-absorbent coating, quite possibly both.


stealth technology it seems, shoudl scare us!!

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Vikram_S » 28 Oct 2008 03:04

URL is too scrwed up to post, but here is the entire article form above:

Indian defense executives took the opportunity of a recent weapons exhibition in Moscow to once again raise the issue of a “successor” to the Indo-Russian Brahmos rocket-ramjet powered cruise missile.

However, given the performance aspirations for the weapon - dubbed Brahmos-2 – the name would likely be the only commonality with the present Brahmos.

The Brahmos is a variant of the NPO Mashinostroenia 3M-55 Onyx (SS-NX-26) anti-ship missile. It has a cruise speed on the order of Mach 2.6. Sivathanu Pillai, the CEO at the Brahmos company, has repeatedly suggested the follow on – Brahmos-2 – will be a hypersonic weapon. Brahmos is a partnership between NPO Mashinostroenia and India’s Defense Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The 3M-55 is a capable weapon but neither the propulsion system nor the airframe design or materials are remotely suitable for a hypersonic weapon. Scramjet or hybrid ramjet propulsion would be required for an air-breathing weapon, with advanced materials technology, possibly including active cooling, needed to deal with the temperatures generated at such speeds.

Exactly how Brahmos-2 relates to the DRDO’s Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle (HSTDV) program has also yet to become clear.

Pillai told the Russian news agency Interfax that he also wanted the Brahmos-2 to be “invisible”.

While this could present an issue in the infra-red spectrum, given airframe heating, NPO Mashinostroenia already has a track record in working on passive and active low observable technology in the radio frequency spectrum for high altitude cruise weapons.

Its 3M-25 Meteorit strategic cruise missile, which was never fielded, was associated with a plasma-generation system believed to be intended to reduce the radar cross-section of the missile by shielding the air intake and possibly the nose section.


Bill Sweetman adds: Also, take a look at the BrahMos displayed in Moscow last week:

Doesn't that look like a very heavy coat of paint for something that's supposed to spend its life in a sealed container? More than paint, perhaps - probably radar or IR-absorbent coating, quite possibly both.

Back to Doug:

Russia has a long-standing interest in hypersonic cruise missile technology, while India is also exploring technologies applicable to this area through the likes of the HSTDV. Brahmos-2, should it ever progress, could prove to be a very interesting weapon.


Picture Credits D.Barrie & Bill Sweetman/AW&ST

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Sid » 28 Oct 2008 04:11

Vikram_S wrote:URL is too scrwed up to post, but here is the entire article form above:



Mr Pillai's dream machine hypersonic air vehicle might end up looking something like Russian Kh-90 GELA ASM. We might pull off something like PJ10 again (in terms of collaboration).

http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/raduga/g ... s/gela.jpg
Last edited by Rahul M on 28 Oct 2008 09:42, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: please don't post large images inline, it screws up the page format. tutorial for resizing images is available at misc pics thread.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby vavinash » 28 Oct 2008 06:34

It does look huge but only weighs 2 tonnes? thats lighter than Brahmos-A

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby neerajb » 28 Oct 2008 07:19

AFAIK the air launched Brahmos weight is going to be 2.5 metric tons and it will have a booster though it would be much smaller than the existing version.

Cheers....

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Arun_S » 28 Oct 2008 19:39

Dont be surprised by imminent Avatar of HSDTV to save our skin. It does not matter what name one chooses to call it.

For a serious topic I borrowed a cheap phrase of snake oil hawkers.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby gogna » 28 Oct 2008 21:04

Any news or update on Nirbhay

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Daedalus » 31 Oct 2008 06:57

K-15 missile to be tested from land

Hemant Kumar Rout
First Published : 30 Oct 2008 07:59:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 30 Oct 2008 01:30:26 PM IST

BALASORE: After successfully test-firing nuke-capable submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) K-15 from underwater, defence scientists are now planning a test from land next month.

Sources at Chandipur defence base Wednesday said for the first time the missile will be test-fired from a land-based launcher in the Integrated Test Range ( ), next month.

During the test, the scientists will check speed, trajectory, azimuth and other parameters of the missile set for the mission, sources told this website's newspaper. Earlier, the missile had undergone two tests from the underwater platform Pontoon (replica of a submarine) immersed inside the sea.

SLBM was successfully test-fired on February 27 this year from INS Kalinga off Visakhapatnam coast. India thus joined a select group of five nations —— Russia, the US, France, the UK and China to have the technology. The slender K-15 has a length of around 11 metres, larger than the 8.5 metre long Prithvi short-range ballistic missile but smaller than 15-metre-long Agni-1 ballistic missile. It can carry a payload up to one tonne.

‘The missile has two stages fitted into its half-a-metre wide body. An underwater booster propels it clear of the submarine and takes the missile to a height of 5 km above the sea surface. On reaching this altitude, a second stage solid motor kicks in to propel the missile to a distance of over 700 km,’ a defence scientist said.

India is yet to finish the construction of its own nuclear-powered submarine - advanced technology vessel (ATV), from which the SLBMs will be launched. The ATV is expected to be ready for sea trials next year

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Arun_S » 31 Oct 2008 10:14

As expected this is turning out to be India's joint services medium range missile. It is not just Sagarika.
Good job DRDO.

Thanks Hemant K Rout for good defense reporting.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby vavinash » 31 Oct 2008 11:54

How is 700 km a medium range? Its still short-range?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby narayana » 31 Oct 2008 12:03

The missile has two stages fitted into its half-a-metre wide body. An underwater booster propels it clear of the submarine and takes the missile to a height of 5 km above the sea surface. On reaching this altitude, a second stage solid motor kicks in to propel the missile to a distance of over 700 km,’ a defence scientist said.


I think Land based version will have range more than 700 somewhere in between 1000-1500,as underwater booster will be replaced by a first stage motor,but if they decide to got for single stage motor then it will be confined to 700 kms
Last edited by narayana on 31 Oct 2008 12:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby neerajb » 31 Oct 2008 12:06

But what's the need of 700 Km land based sagrika when we already have 750 Km range Agni-I.

Cheers...

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby vavinash » 31 Oct 2008 12:08

Wouldn't the stated ranges make it overlap with Agni-1?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Raj Malhotra » 31 Oct 2008 12:18

If the missile is indeed 11m long then it would mean that ATV empty weight is 6500tons and combat weight is around 10-12000 tons and it is indeed avatar of Severdinsk.

Though I wonder whether Rout got the news of 11m from his sources or copy from India Today report

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Raj Malhotra » 31 Oct 2008 12:28

vavinash wrote:Wouldn't the stated ranges make it overlap with Agni-1?


I believe that Agni-1 will be replaced by K-15 and Agni, Agni-2 by Agni-3 and 5. Though I wonder what will be our tactical BM with conventional warhead to replace Prithvi? Probabaly a mix of Brahmos, Nirbhay and (Lora??)?

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Kakarat » 31 Oct 2008 12:35

I think K-15 will not replace anything and the land-based launch is just for testing purpose only

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Rahul M » 31 Oct 2008 13:16

Raj Malhotra wrote:
vavinash wrote:Wouldn't the stated ranges make it overlap with Agni-1?


I believe that Agni-1 will be replaced by K-15 and Agni, Agni-2 by Agni-3 and 5. Though I wonder what will be our tactical BM with conventional warhead to replace Prithvi? Probabaly a mix of Brahmos, Nirbhay and (Lora??)?

solid fueled aswin derivative.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Raj Malhotra » 31 Oct 2008 13:29

Rahul M wrote:
Raj Malhotra wrote:
vavinash wrote:Wouldn't the stated ranges make it overlap with Agni-1?


I believe that Agni-1 will be replaced by K-15 and Agni, Agni-2 by Agni-3 and 5. Though I wonder what will be our tactical BM with conventional warhead to replace Prithvi? Probabaly a mix of Brahmos, Nirbhay and (Lora??)?

solid fueled aswin derivative.


Info or guess? An SSM will not need the fast speed, TVC of Ashwin, so using a costly missile like Ashwin does not make sense. if it is extensively modified then it is hardly Ashwin

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Rahul M » 31 Oct 2008 13:40

avinash chander IIRC or some other DRDO honcho.
obviously the ABM components will be removed and navigational instruments required for SSM inserted. that's a no-brainer.
which is why I've mentioned derivative as per DRDO. w/o those it won't be as costly.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Anabhaya » 31 Oct 2008 14:02

We need a weapon that is cheapish, accurate and capable of delivering a decent payload over a range of one thousand kilometers - ideally fired in salvos of 3-5, that can take out HVTs, HQ's - in short make up a Chinese 2nd arty corps type strategic force minus the nukes. Brahmos looks costly and short-legged for the role.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Singha » 31 Oct 2008 14:07

long time ago, amirkhan had played with a concept called SLAM.
shaped similar to that Ru hypersonic proto but much larger.

the specs were cooked by a bunch of br boys after some single
malts on a friday. it would fly from US to soviet union and drop
16x 1MT warheads on 16 targets. each warhead would be ejected
up and by time it hit ground the SLAM would be outside the
affected zone.

being a low level raider, the shockwave alone was felt to
collapse large buildings and leave a broad swathe of mayhem
behind.

and it was to have a open chulha of a nuclear reactor :mrgreen:
thats where the single malts really kicked in

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1565615/posts

but it just show the amt of money US was prepared to throw
to explore ideas and gain even the slight advantage.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby SSridhar » 31 Oct 2008 14:32

Folks, is it not easier to test the missile in land-based launches rather than using an underwater test every time ? That should save cost and make it probably easier to test.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby JTull » 31 Oct 2008 15:13

K-15 has much smaller diameter than Agni-1. That should imply we can deploy more missiles on the same land-based transporter.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Raj Malhotra » 31 Oct 2008 17:33

Heavy SAMs had SS role even in Soviet times but that was emergency use and not dedicated role. I know about Avinash Chander's comment and I had high lighted them on BRF when he made them but still I take them with a pinch of salt.

It is impossible to believe that K-15 was not tested many times from land prior to being launhed in sub-sea mode. I think now it is being modified for ground use perhaps by removing the booster (for making it tactical missile) or by lenthening the booster (to make it replacement for Agni-1) or such other fiddling or Drdo has just started announcing its launches publically rather than calling it Prithvi launch.

These bloody yindus are just too cunning :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby rrao » 31 Oct 2008 18:23

Rahul M wrote:avinash chander IIRC or some other DRDO honcho.
.


Rahul Ji, please address properly while refering to eminent people who have done pioneering work. Its a disrespect to such eminent personalities are addressed like that. i have personally seen the contributions of Shri Avinash Chanderji!

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Rahul M » 31 Oct 2008 18:29

rrao, I have the utmost respect for Avinash Chander and his colleagues !
honcho means group leader and the term was used to denote ace pilots in korean war.
where do you find disrespect in my comments ? :-?
regards.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby K Mehta » 31 Oct 2008 18:41

x-posting from international mil discussion
Arun_S wrote:Interesting article even if one cant read french:
Dossier : La modernisation de la Force océanique stratégique

notice the non-submarine underwater test platform they used.

Interesting especially in context of K-15 launch.
use babelfish or google translate to translate.

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby sum » 31 Oct 2008 19:08

It is impossible to believe that K-15 was not tested many times from land prior to being launhed in sub-sea mode.

IIRC, Chander ji had himself claimed(or was it a "unnamed DRDO source" :wink: )in a interview that the K-15 had been land tested prior to pontoon testing in the guise of Lakshya/xyz test....

rrao, I have the utmost respect for Avinash Chander and his colleagues !
honcho means group leader and the term was used to denote ace pilots in korean war.
where do you find disrespect in my comments ? :-?
regards.

Rahul sir, im guessing that rrao-ji meant that please use some prefix/suffix when addressing Avinash Chander-ji instead of first person addressing....

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Rahul M » 31 Oct 2008 19:16

sum, that may be but people usually don't use honorifics while using full names.
even then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

on another note, why are YOU adding a sir to my name ? :eek:

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby Mihir.D » 31 Oct 2008 19:33

Rahul M wrote:sum, that may be but people usually don't use honorifics while using full names.
even then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

on another note, why are YOU adding a sir to my name ? :eek:


U want Saaar instead of Sir :lol: ?
Sum pls change it to Saaar :D

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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion - 27 March 2008

Postby sum » 31 Oct 2008 20:37

Mihir.D wrote:
Rahul M wrote:sum, that may be but people usually don't use honorifics while using full names.
even then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

on another note, why are YOU adding a sir to my name ? :eek:


U want Saaar instead of Sir :lol: ?
Sum pls change it to Saaar :D


Ha ha...authentic kannada style saar...

The sir was because of the honorary knighthood i have given to you for the extraordinary service you are doing to BR by being online and moderating the unruly threads 24 hours a day!!!! :eek:
I have never seen you offline, day or night!!!! Pls keep it up,saar.....

/End of OT post


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