India nuclear news and discussion

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Oct 2008 17:07

This is what some of us have been suggesting,that a fleet of gas tankers could shuttle back and forth between India and the Gulf.In fact,they could be used to source gas from any producer.If japan can source all its eenrgy supplies from the Gulf,then so could we transport supplies from Russia's east coast which could deliver Siberian energy to us.The chances of any pipeline coming through Afghanistan is a (opium) pipedream.If Bangladesh conmes to its senses,it could earn a lot by exporting gas to India,but it hasn't.More's the pity.The other alternative,also involves transporting Burmese gas through Bangland,or avoiding its territory making it a costlier proposal.There is no reason why both gas pipelines cannot be pursued,with the tanker option the best sureshot method and interim solution.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Oct 2008 17:54

Canadian firm sees scope for nuclear biz here

India has even smaller "local" units in mind...... for places that T&D is not so efficient. Looks like security is an issue at this point in time, something they will overcome. From what I have read India seems to have thought thru', perhaps, all options open to a emerging economy or less. The only outside help they will certainly need is fuel.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 30 Oct 2008 18:03

India can buy uranium anytime and stockpile: Canada.

Canada, one of the key members of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), on Thursday said that India can order for uranium anytime and can even
stockpile.

"India can place order for uranium anytime and they can also stockpile it," Gerald W Grandey, President and chief Executive Officer of Cameco Corporation of Canada (largest suppliers of uranium) told reporters on the sidelines of Homi Bhabha's Centenary celebrations' inauguration.

"We have been waiting for a long time for the Indo-US deal to come through and since IAEA India specific agreement and NSG's waiver are in place, we are keen that India buys uranium from Canada anytime," Grandey, a key person who helped in the Indo-US deal process, said.

"Now it is up to India how soon they want and how much and under what conditions," he said adding "we are ready, the decision lies with New Delhi as the customer is always right."

Grandey said, the contractual agreements are not done overnight, it takes its own time and since they had been waiting for long, they wanted India to do it fast.

Replying a query on stockpiling, Grandey said, "stockpiling is a normal thing and under the general policy, one can stockpile for one or two years. Since in Asian countries due to scarcity of supply of uranium, they can stockpile even up to three years of inventories just as Japan has done."

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Oct 2008 18:11

Vipul wrote:Replying a query on stockpiling, Grandey said, "stockpiling is a normal thing and under the general policy, one can stockpile for one or two years. Since in Asian countries due to scarcity of supply of uranium, they can stockpile even up to three years of inventories just as Japan has done."

Why even these constraints of 2 years and 3 years? Does Canada have some sort of Law, that they would allow a country only 3 years of fuel requirements for stockpiling?

renukb · Post by **renukb** » 30 Oct 2008 18:15

RajeshA wrote:
Vipul wrote:Replying a query on stockpiling, Grandey said, "stockpiling is a normal thing and under the general policy, one can stockpile for one or two years. Since in Asian countries due to scarcity of supply of uranium, they can stockpile even up to three years of inventories just as Japan has done."
Why even these constraints of 2 years and 3 years? Does Canada have some sort of Law, that they would allow a country only 3 years of fuel requirements for stockpiling?

India can buy and stock 3 years of uranium from every supplier, if we decide to play some games.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Oct 2008 18:29

I don't think it matters to Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Mongolia, Namibia, Niger, etc. how much of Uranium we stock. They just want to sell.

I am simply curious whether Canada in particular, has any 3 years of maximum stockpiles allowed convention.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 30 Oct 2008 22:24

RajeshA wrote:I don't think it matters to Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Mongolia, Namibia, Niger, etc. how much of Uranium we stock. They just want to sell.

I am simply curious whether Canada in particular, has any 3 years of maximum stockpiles allowed convention.

Anglo-Saxon have studied Indian psychology and used it to kill Indian-ness with McCaluly's "remove native schools and bring uniform English education to make uniformed secular clerks for the Raj" starting ~1870. One prime lesson learnt by Anglo-Saxon is that for a typical Indian, words spoken by a rich man with white skin will be treated as "Pundit" satya that is most credible and real.

So a Canadian snake oil salesmen selling Uranium can simply speak in press interview to psychologically set the rules on how many years of Uranium reserve Asian countries can have. Particularly if said countries are recipient of Canadian charity in the from of Uranium sale (charity for profit is a good business). It is because of higher birth that God has given Canada rich Uranium ore, and it is Canada's God assigned duty to ensure it sells its ore to recipient countries per His ordained mission.

I am awoken, and I know. So my retort is "NO CAN DO". Canada you got to get in line to get any of the uranium business in teh sunny Indian sun, and do some penance to earn some bownie point s from Brown saahib disbursing Yellow cake order. CAN CAN??

There is nothing in NSG nor any Canadian body that monitors or oversees the reserve in the targeted country and ensure only they do not exceed the Uranium ration.

"Ration-paani ka zamana hai, Yaa free trade ka?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Oct 2008 22:41

Uranuim prices are gonna crash becuase of inventories and Cameco need "Bhara Bhayya" i.e Ruppiya.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/102711- ... al-analyst
Short Term Debt Saddling Cameco Corp
the C$347-million Kintyre uranium deposit acquisition made in August mainly with short term debt due in mid 2009. As a result, Mr. Topping told clients in a note that Cameco now has C$550-million in short-term debt and C$750-million of long term debt. Meanwhile, the bulk of its cash, the analyst added, is held by Cameco subsidiary, Centerra Gold Inc. (CAGDF.PK).

He wrote:

The agreement of lenders is required to roll the debt over. We are concerned that this debt may constrain capital spending if credit markets remain closed, as Cameco is not strongly free cash flow positive.

Rkam · Post by **Rkam** » 31 Oct 2008 02:09

http://canadianenergyissues.com/2008/10 ... /#more-323

Nuclear power in South Asia: opportunities and challenges for Canada
Now that the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) has voted to lift its general ban on nuclear trade with India, western countries are lining up to grab their share of this burgeoning and lucrative civilian nuclear market. What opportunities are there for companies in the Canadian nuclear industry? India has 17 power reactors, 15 of which are pressurized heavy water reactors (PHWRs). Two of the PHWRs are CANDUs, built in the 1960s and early ’70s; the other 13 are an Indian design based closely on CANDU. India plans to add many more reactors to its fleet, and though some of these will be light-water designs, it appears the country will remain strongly committed to heavy water (see article).

India’s power reactors have been chronically under-fueled, so this is one obvious area of commercial opportunity. Canada is the world’s largest uranium producer, with well developed processing capability as well. India does not have much economically recoverable uranium and needs to import it; this was part of the impetus behind the U.S.-India civilian nuclear deal, which the U.S. just ratified. PHWRs use natural uranium fuel, the fabrication of which could conceivably be carried out in India, with outside help, without involving the export of equipment, materials, or technology that could be classified as “sensitive.”

You might think that on this basis Canadian companies are well positioned. But we have to remember that most of India’s operating PHWRs are currently outside IAEA safeguards. Unless that changes, Canada cannot provide fuel for these machines. Our future fuel supply prospects are therefore limited to the planned PHWRs (assuming they become safeguarded) and the planned LWRs. The latter prospect depends first on the success of Canada’s diplomacy in getting us into the enriched fuel business (see article), and second on whether we can beat out LWR vendors’ fuel supply offers. I’m not placing any bets.

The more important area of potential opportunity is in the manufacturing supply chain. According to the World Nuclear Association there are two small (202 megawatt) PHWRs under construction, with another six larger (640 MW) units planned or proposed. Canada possesses all the expertise needed to at least assist in developing an integrated PHWR supply chain in India. The question is will those reactors be designated as civilian.

The above activities, applied to the civilian program, appear to fall within what would be acceptable under the new NSG rules. However, the devil is in the details and the details of these rules are far from clear at this time. Moreover, there appears to be room for individual NSG countries to adopt their own policies regarding what they will and will not sell to India.

Further into the future, India’s plans to develop a thorium fuel cycle could also present opportunities for Canada. Atomic Energy Canada Limited (AECL) has extensively researched thorium use in PHWR CANDUs. AECL has identified scenarios in which CANDUs play a role in both a once-through thorium fuel cycle to extend uranium resources and as burners of uranium-233 that has been “bred” from thorium in fast reactors (see article). There could be considerable potential here.

Canadian Energy Issues © 2008, by Steve Aplin. Mr. Aplin heads the Energy and Environment practice at The HDP Group, an Ottawa-based management consultancy. He is an expert on the implications of environmental policy for the energy sector. Mr. Aplin also publishes a new power production and emission tracking website, Electric Power Statistics. You can contact him at 1+(613) 567-5300.

You can read related subjects in the following categories: AECL &bull Atomic Energy Canada &bull Electricity &bull India-US nuclear deal &bull Nuclear &bull Nuclear diplomacy &bull Political communication. Also check the Categories list on the right-hand sidebar.

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2 Responses to “Nuclear power in South Asia: opportunities and challenges for Canada”
Randal Leavitt Says:
October 28th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Up to now I have been a supporter of AECL and a Canadian nuclear industry. But I dont think this position is tenable. I now think that Canadian nuclear workers would benefit most if Areva bought AECL, and used this Canadian expertise to expand its business in India. I just cant see AECL making any headway in India when competing with Areva and Westinghouse. The French government likes nuclear and lobbies for it. The Canadian government hates nuclear and wishes it had never been invented. AECL has enough problems without needing to explain why its government hates it to everyone. One interesting consequence my change in thinking is that Ontario should select Areva to build its new reactors.

Steve Aplin Says:
October 29th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Thanks Randal. Yes, there is a big difference in the ways the French and Canadian governments support nuclear power. I wouldn’t go so far as to say the Canadian government hates it, but I take your point. The Ontario communication ban is inconvenient, but there are jobs attached to the AECL technology, with the prospect of many more if Ontario goes with the ACR and many more on top of that if AECL gets the support it needs to sell into other markets, e.g. India and China. Jobs in manufacturing… that would mean something to the feds, but somebody has to talk it up.

Leave a Reply

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Oct 2008 02:47

Bhopal's Ghosts May Impede U.S.-India Nuclear Trade

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Oct 2008 02:50

Fresh uranium fuel supplies likely by April

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Oct 2008 02:50

International civil N-cooperation not to affect PHWR: PM

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 31 Oct 2008 10:22

Gerard wrote:International civil N-cooperation not to affect PHWR: PM

Mumbai: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh today said international civil nuclear cooperation would not affect the integrity of the indigenous three-stage programme of complete nuclear fuel cycle envisaged by the father of India's nuclear programme Homi Jahangir Bhabha.

"International cooperation will not affect the development of Pressurised Heavy Water Reactor (PHWR), fast breeder and thorium programme and there will be no interference in India's strategic programme," Singh said while launching the year-long Homi Bhabha birth centenary year celebrations from New Delhi through a video conferencing.

The programme was linked to all the department of Atomic energy institutions for the benefit of all scientists and engineers of DAE family.

"We are working with willing partners like USA, UK, Canada, France, Russia and Kazakhstan," he said adding that, Indian scientists should make use of these opportunities for extending cooperation in research and development.

India has developed certain technologies which may not be available to international community and therefore we can have exchanges with them for the benefit of the scientific and international community, he said.

Bhabha was keen on indigenous programme, but he was also interested in striking a balance with international cooperation by setting up the first commercial power plant on a turnkey basis, the Prime Minister said.

He opened up uranium mines in Jaduguda when uranium was available in the international market which led to a robust and the country, Singh said.

© Copyright 2008 PTI. All rights reserved.

Developed at great pains, thanks to American built NSG to make India cry. Exchange is about give and take. This is give, where is the Take? WTF is this giveaway for?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 31 Oct 2008 12:02

Arun_S wrote: Developed at great pains due to American NSG. Exchange is about give and take. This is give, where is the Take? WTF is this giveway for?

Space exploration is space exploration. Don't let that spirit to leak into nuclear issues. There will be no reciprocity! The era of Atoms for Peace is long gone.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 31 Oct 2008 13:59

Well put Arun.If there is intelligence in the GOI/MEA/AEC/PMO,we should advertise a nuclear-fuel "bazaar" or mela immediately,where nulear fuel suppliers will be invited to offer their best rates and services on a long term basis.The best deals will be chosen by India,from at least three suppliers so as to spread the risk.We should certainly get excellent prices at this point of time and stockplie enough for 20+ years.A few years down the line,we can conduct P-3,sorely needed as the US and its allies plan to develop even newer and more accurate and deadly N-weapons.Once our two lunar missions have been successful and our space programmes mature,there will be a new attitude towards Indai.By then no one will dare to talk of sanctions for India.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Nov 2008 02:08

India is well placed to develop nuclear energy

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 01 Nov 2008 18:32

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... tono=48685

10 times the earlier output using this new gas centrifuge!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Nov 2008 18:57

BARC develops fourth gen uranium enrichment gas centrifuges: PTI

As part of India's strategic programme, the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) has developed fourth generation uranium enrichment gas centrifuges with an output of more than 10 times the earlier design, a top BARC official has said.

"An experimental cascade of the fourth generation design is in operation at BARC and will soon be ready for induction at the Rare Materials Plant (RMP) in Ratnahalli near Mysore," BARC director Sreekumar Banerjee said addressing the Founder's Day celebration yesterday.

"The Third generation design with 5 times more output than earlier designs are presently being inducted at RMP," he said.

Enriched uranium fuel supplied by BARC for the light water reactor programme at Kalpakkam for strategic purposes has been performing quite satisfactorily, Banerjee said.

"Our facility at Mysore is ready to meet the demands of the current strategic programme. We have had remarkable success in improving the separating work of our centrifuges and I am confident that we will be in a position to enter the uranium enrichment activity on an industrial scale within a short time," he added.

On fresh challenges for scientists and engineers, he said, "we must maintain a constant vigil on our performance so that the technology gain that has been achieved through years of efforts is kept well-secured despite the threat of technology invasion."

Hats off to BARC! This means that more or less, India has become self-sufficient in the troika of so-called sensitive nuclear technologies: heavy-water production, reprocessing and uranium enrichment. So when NSG Plenary Meeting is held in November and they prohibit ENR technologies to non-NPT countries, it would mean nothing for us. In fact in would only mean more indigenous development of these technologies.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 Nov 2008 19:26

On fresh challenges for scientists and engineers, he said, "we must maintain a constant vigil on our performance so that the technology gain that has been achieved through years of efforts is kept well-secured despite the threat of technology invasion."

This memo item did not reach J18 team.

Yet.

__________________________________________________

With this I have to rewonder why import any reactors? Why not just import fuel for Indian designed reactors. A cluster of four PHWR reactors should provide a thumping 2000 MWe. Comments or corrections?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Nov 2008 19:46

NRao Ji,

without dangling the 100 billion dollars for reactors, the other countries like Russia and France would not have supported India, and neither would American industry have lobbied for India on Capitol Hill, in which case we would not have had a NSG waiver or the right to import nuclear fuel! That was the price!

One plus point of importing would be that Indian scientists would be able to study reactor designs, which we were not able to earlier. Secondly, should this nuclear renaissance really get off the ground, then Areva and Rosatom may not have the necessary man power to look after all the nuclear reactor orders, in which we would be going any way for indigenous designs.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Nov 2008 20:57

Earlier estimates were 2-3 SWU for the 2nd gen. So 10-15 SWU now coming online with 20-30 SWU in the pipeline.
For comparison:
Pak-1 = 1-3 SWU, Pak-2 = 5 SWU, Russia = 10 SWU, URENCO = 40 SWU and USA = 300 SWU.
The last three operate commercial scale plants.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Nov 2008 22:17

Indian Navy crews to move to Russia to start training on Chakra

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 01 Nov 2008 23:01

Gerard wrote:Earlier estimates were 2-3 SWU for the 2nd gen. So 10-15 SWU now coming online with 20-30 SWU in the pipeline.
For comparison:
Pak-1 = 1-3 SWU, Pak-2 = 5 SWU, Russia = 10 SWU, URENCO = 40 SWU and USA = 300 SWU.
The last three operate commercial scale plants.

I assumed it meant 10 times the third gen design so 100-150 SWU??

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 02 Nov 2008 10:12

Arun_S wrote:
Gerard wrote:International civil N-cooperation not to affect PHWR: PM

Mumbai: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh today said international civil nuclear cooperation would not affect the integrity of the indigenous three-stage programme of complete nuclear fuel cycle envisaged by the father of India's nuclear programme Homi Jahangir Bhabha.

"International cooperation will not affect the development of Pressurised Heavy Water Reactor (PHWR), fast breeder and thorium programme and there will be no interference in India's strategic programme," Singh said while launching the year-long Homi Bhabha birth centenary year celebrations from New Delhi through a video conferencing.

The programme was linked to all the department of Atomic energy institutions for the benefit of all scientists and engineers of DAE family.

"We are working with willing partners like USA, UK, Canada, France, Russia and Kazakhstan," he said adding that, Indian scientists should make use of these opportunities for extending cooperation in research and development.

India has developed certain technologies which may not be available to international community and therefore we can have exchanges with them for the benefit of the scientific and international community, he said.

Bhabha was keen on indigenous programme, but he was also interested in striking a balance with international cooperation by setting up the first commercial power plant on a turnkey basis, the Prime Minister said.

He opened up uranium mines in Jaduguda when uranium was available in the international market which led to a robust and the country, Singh said.

© Copyright 2008 PTI. All rights reserved.
Developed at great pains, thanks to American built NSG to make India cry. Exchange is about give and take. This is give, where is the Take? WTF is this giveaway for?

It has been a stated goal of BARC to become the world leader in PHWR/Thorium tech. PM's statement is pointed in that direction. We would get moolah in exchange for our technology export!!!

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 02 Nov 2008 12:11

I am sure Manmohan Singh knows enough English (Oxford pedigree

) to know the difference between exchange and sell. Being an economist he especially very very clear in understanding that difference. No need to explain away the sentiments of his statement, what he means he has said in words. Unless of course you have a direct line with honerable MM Singh and are his spokesperson.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Nov 2008 16:51

It has been a stated goal of BARC to become the world leader in PHWR/Thorium tech. PM's statement is pointed in that direction. We would get moolah in exchange for our technology export!!!

That is one possibility. The other two: 1) No export of "Indian" techs, use of it only in India or 2) shut it down completely.

I cannot see the export of Indian techs to make money for India. Certainly not in the near future.

Even use of it in India will be a tough fight.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Nov 2008 17:10

GNEP in a diff form:

When nuclear sheriffs quarrel

Oct 30th 2008
From The Economist print edition

The job of keeping sensitive materials away from pariahs was always hard—and now it’s marred by squabbles

NOBODY feels much natural love for a shadowy group of self-appointed policemen, engaged in a tough job which some outsiders resent. Yet there is one such band of brothers that does noble work. For more than 30 years, the effort to halt the spread of nuclear weapons has relied, at a practical level, on a small, publicity-shy bunch of officials from a club called the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG).

Behind closed doors, this 45-nation fraternity stitches up rules whose aim is to control trade in nuclear materials, equipment and technology. They don’t always succeed. North Korea, Iran, (a subsequently reformed) Libya and others tapped into a nuclear black market that was run for years from Pakistan. But now the fraternity itself is under strain, with perilous consequences for world peace.

These problems have come at a bad time. Many governments are considering nuclear power plants, to cut greenhouse emissions and meet rising energy demand. It will take clearer, tighter rules on transfers to prevent technology sold for civilian nuclear purposes from being misused. Yet at a meeting this month, the NSG will be under strain in several ways.

One new source of strain is a statement by China, an NSG member since 2004, that it now plans to sell two new nuclear reactors to Pakistan. If that goes ahead, it will flout an agreed ban on nuclear trade with countries that do not have all their nuclear industry under international safeguards.

A second problem is the opposition of some NSG members, especially Canada and Brazil, to criteria proposed this year for curbing trade in the most sensitive nuclear technologies: those for enriching uranium or producing plutonium, materials that can be made into reactor fuel or, when refined, into the fissile core of a bomb.

The two issues have become linked because of a third row that has left tempers badly frayed. The last time the NSG met, in September, America pushed through an exemption to the nuclear-trade rules for India. This fulfilled a promise made by George Bush to India’s prime minister, Manmohan Singh, in 2005 in an effort to cement a new friendship and help balance the rising influence of China. The American move drew open criticism from some NSG members and grumbles from others.

Like Pakistan and Israel, India has stayed outside the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), building nuclear weapons instead. Under NSG rules, none of the three should be entitled to import either civilian or military nuclear technology and materials. Like the others, India still bars inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the UN’s nuclear guardian, from some of its nuclear sites.

Yet for the first time in decades, India’s NSG waiver will enable it to import foreign fuel and other technology for its civilian nuclear industry: it is the only non-NPT country to get that perk.

Pakistan wants similar treatment, but there is no realistic hope of that. Its government has form in the proliferation business, although it conveniently blames an impressive series of black-market sales on one rogue scientist, Adbul Qadeer Khan. But China feels that if rules can be bent for India, America’s friend, they can be broken for its own chum, Pakistan.

When China joined the NSG, it insisted that two reactors it said were already promised to Pakistan should still be built (the second is now nearing completion). Other NSG members reluctantly agreed, on the understanding that there would be no more nuclear sales to Pakistan. Drawing such a line was thought worth the price, as long as there really was a change in China’s behaviour. There had been suspicions (later confirmed from drawings found in Libya) that in earlier times, when it was more careless about proliferation, China had actually given Pakistan the workable design for a bomb.

Laxity all round

By ending a period of self-restraint over sales to Pakistan, China is undermining the credibility of the NSG. But so are others. Two years ago, when Russia broke ranks, using specious “safety” arguments to sell fuel to India for two reactors that were running short, the Bush administration protested loudly. But recently, with their own India deal on the books, the Americans have been slower to denounce misbehaviour. This fuels fears that by creating an India-sized hole in the NSG’s rules, America is causing the whole system to unravel.

Meanwhile, the row over India is having other ill-effects. It is complicating efforts to define criteria for the transfer of sensitive uranium-enrichment and plutonium-reprocessing technologies. India says it must now get “full” and “unrestricted” nuclear trade. Others disagree, noting that technology supplied for making civilian fuel could easily be misused by India to boost its stocks of fissile material too.

America’s own laws already forbid it from selling India such technologies; indeed it is mandated to slap sanctions on any state that helps India in that way. Yet the Bush administration resisted efforts by some NSG members to write the necessary restrictions into the club’s nuclear waiver for India; it used the argument that no country was thinking of supplying the Indians with that sort of technology.

Meanwhile, the effort to come up with global, proliferation-proof criteria, under way for at least five years, has run into problems. As part of an effort to push the India deal as quickly as possible through Congress, America’s secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, vowed to give “highest priority” to the effort to secure a decision at this month’s NSG meeting. But to achieve that goal would require the sort of high-level pressure that got the India deal accepted, and there is no sign of that yet.

In 2004 George Bush had called for a global moratorium on transfers of sensitive technology to countries that did not already have fully functioning enrichment and reprocessing plants. The idea has since been endorsed by annual G8 summits (of the G7 group of rich economies, plus Russia). But this year the G8 dropped the idea.

For one thing, Canada objects. It has some of the world’s largest reserves of high-quality raw uranium, and one of the best records in non-proliferation. It wants the option of profiting from any nuclear renaissance by acquiring the technology to enrich its own uranium for export, rather than leaving all the profits to countries with a foot in the business, like America, France, Japan and Russia—and India.

Brazil is another refusenik. Most other NSG members could agree on criteria for sensitive nuclear trade. For example: membership of the NPT (thus blocking such dealings with India); being in good standing with the IAEA (which rules out Iran); and the application of advanced IAEA safeguards under an Additional Protocol that countries are encouraged to sign. But Brazil won’t sign the Additional Protocol. It has a pilot enrichment plant at Resende, and it is limiting the access that inspectors enjoy. This is supposedly to protect commercial secrets, and to uphold the idea that enhanced inspections are voluntary. Some suspect, however, that Brazil wants to hide the fact that some technology came through less-than-formal channels.

The NSG is meant to work by consensus. Frayed tempers, bruised feelings and the deliberate bending and breaking of rules that have taken years to create are now threatening to break the posse up.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 02 Nov 2008 17:27

Indian Navy crew to train on nuclear-powered submarine

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 02 Nov 2008 21:40

Gerard what is the SWU that you refer to in the earlier post?
I assume you are referring to Uranium enrichment capacity.

You mean to say that Russia / SU with 10 SWU capacity could maintain a fleet of over 50 - 80 nuclear submarines AND those 12,000 Nuclear weapons these last four decades?

Compared to that Indian 20-30 is Massive? Is the estimation correct?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 02 Nov 2008 22:09

Those were Separative Work Unit estimates (by Ayatollah Lewis) for the current centrifuges operated around the world. An earlier article by Ayatollah MV Ramana had an estimate for the original BARC pilot plant.
See
More Fun With SWU
http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/1035/more-fun-with-swu

An Estimate of India’s Uranium Enrichment Capacity
http://www.princeton.edu/~globsec/publi ... ramana.pdf

Note that these are per machine per year. If you only have a small number of centrifuges, you can only enrich a small amount. If you operate Aluminium or Maraging Steel (MS), subcritical, low SWU, centrifuges, industrial scale enrichment becomes almost impossible since you would need to build and operate so many. The technological leap to supercritical, carbon fibre resin composite (CFRC) centrifuges of high SWU allows you to build cascades capable of commercial scale operation.
Though the Russian CFRC machines lag behind the American CFRC ones, they would have installed a larger number to provide the industrial capacity. The Soviet Union invested enormous sums in their military-industrial complex.
Pakistan has to buy parts from Malaysia because it lacks the industrial base. While India has a much larger industrial base, it is nowhere close to Russia in machining capacity.

See
http://www10.antenna.nl/wise/499-500/4932.html
for a table (table 1) of total enrichment capacity. The massive US and Russian numbers compared to say China, show what "superpower" really means. The US gaseous diffusion plants used 1/6 of all US electricity in the 1940s.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Nov 2008 00:14

Pranab: both nuclear deal, IPI pipeline for energy

skbanner · Post by **skbanner** » 03 Nov 2008 02:27

Arun_S wrote:I am sure Manmohan Singh knows enough English (Oxford pedigree ) to know the difference between exchange and sell. Being an economist he especially very very clear in understanding that difference. No need to explain away the sentiments of his statement, what he means he has said in words. Unless of course you have a direct line with honerable MM Singh and are his spokesperson.

When I go to my corner grocery store, the shopkeeper 'exchanges' a carton of milk with me, for a couple of bucks. Methinks you are mixing up 'exchange' with 'barter'.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 03 Nov 2008 04:00

Arun_S wrote:I am sure Manmohan Singh knows enough English (Oxford pedigree ) to know the difference between exchange and sell. Being an economist he especially very very clear in understanding that difference. No need to explain away the sentiments of his statement, what he means he has said in words. Unless of course you have a direct line with honerable MM Singh and are his spokesperson.

I think he knows and so do the people who matter but same can't be said about you twisting the things to suite your isolatist ideology. No need to be testy and calling spokesperson, Oxford, direct line etc. Exchange never means giveaway in any English dictionary.

amit · Post by **amit** » 03 Nov 2008 11:17

Gerard wrote:Indian Navy crews to move to Russia to start training on Chakra

This link has this quote:

The first ATV has been completed and assigned a yet undisclosed name. The submarine is to be launched at the Shipbuilding Centre (SBC) in Visakhapatnam on January 26 next year to begin harbour trials.

Is this correct?

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 03 Nov 2008 11:29

Amit,

Please look in the TSP thread. You had asked me for a reference to Nehru supplying rice to the PLA. I finally found the citation. Please look there.

THanks.

amit · Post by **amit** » 03 Nov 2008 11:30

Surinder,

I was away for a few days. Am catching up with the threads. I will certainly have a look. Thanks a ton for taking the effort to track the story/source.

Cheers!

Amit

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Nov 2008 20:27

Kakodkar calls for continuous civil nuclear cooperation

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Nov 2008 22:32

without dangling the 100 billion dollars for reactors, the other countries like Russia and France would not have supported India, and neither would American industry have lobbied for India on Capitol Hill, in which case we would not have had a NSG waiver or the right to import nuclear fuel! That was the price!

One plus point of importing would be that Indian scientists would be able to study reactor designs, which we were not able to earlier. Secondly, should this nuclear renaissance really get off the ground, then Areva and Rosatom may not have the necessary man power to look after all the nuclear reactor orders, in which we would be going any way for indigenous designs.

All and good. However, my fav peeve - ENR was not addressed (NP).

AK seems to have addressed it in:

Gerard wrote:Kakodkar calls for continuous civil nuclear cooperation

There is a clear dual path of Indian vs. imported reactors feeding into the FBRs. Which is very good news. As long as Indian PHWRs generate fuel (for FBRs), the imported can keep humming without feeding into FBRs. Need to note that both the PHWRs and the related reproc are Indian techs under IAEA, so they can count atoms (IF they are capable) and FBRs will get some, if not all fuel.

Also, I have to wonder if this statement is to keep MMS in line. I really do not see AK in a mood to "exchange". MMS seems to be still sliding even after the deal is nearly done. I cannot see the foreigners using Thorium, so I find it very hard to believe that they have any thing to learn from India and therefore trade/barter/exchange.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 05 Nov 2008 03:30

French firm offers to sell nuclear reactor

French nuclear power company Areva has offered to sell its next generation European Pressurised Reactor (EPR) of 1600 MWe to India.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 07 Nov 2008 03:46

4 N-equipment makers in race to partner in Bhel JV