Iran News and Discussions

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Rye
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by Rye »

RajeshA wrote:
There has been much talk about Iran in the news, but most of it is just from the perspective of Western interests, and to a lesser extent from the perspective of Iran itself, Russia, China, Pakistan, etc.

Considering that our Foreign Minister Mr. Pranab Mukherjee is flying tomorrow over to Iran, it would interest me, now that the Indo-US nuclear deal is over, and there are questions hanging over the fate of Afghanistan and the IPI gas pipeline, what is India's foreign policy position on Iran?
RajeshA, India's Iran policy is probably going to be independent of Indo-US relations (recall various statements from the GOI to that effect) -- Iran is key to stopping the west from making things really inconvenient for India w.r.t. the whole "good taliban/bad taliban" strategy. Besides, IMO, Iran is a "link" state that is going to get strongly linked to Russia and EU in the coming years, and India must have Iran as a regional ally in the long term even if things look rocky in the short term.

Where can our interests coincide despite American pressure and on what will we be parting ways and letting China and Russia take over shop?

India must not be pressured into not cooperating with Iran especially if the Russia/Iran grouping is going to work to putting pressure on Pakistan from the west, or are developing an alternative energy strategy via central asia -- a game that will be won by Russia/EU alliance. That alliance will at the very least be bypassing Pakistan altogether when it comes to central asian access/trade. I think Iran is a key element in stopping the US from taking India for granted in the US/SD's ME/Asian policy.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by RajeshA »

Rye,

that is a policy, that makes sense. India needs a few friends in the Muslim world, and up till now, India has felt quite at ease with Iran.

We should try to de-hyphenate USA-Israel and Iran, just the way the US de-hyphenated India and Pakistan. Just because USA became India's strategic partner and friend tra la la, didn't mean they stopped supplying Pakistan with F-solahs. So why should India try to curb our interests with Iran.

We can make it clear to USA-Israel, that if they want our assistance in Pakistan/Afghanistan area, we can consider it if it also serves our interests, but India and Iran will have an independent relationship based on hydro-carbon commerce, cultural exchanges, navy courtesy visits, infrastructure projects, strategic cooperation in Afghanistan and access to Central Asia, etc. If USA desires any mediation, we may even provide those services.

The thing is MMS needlessly said, that India is not willing to support Iran's nuclear weapon ambitions, thereby affirming that India believes that Iran is trying to get nuclear weapons, even though Iran has been saying the whole time, that Iran has no such ambitions. Such mutterings in Paris were really unnecessary. We did not gain anything, and we rubbed off Iran the wrong way. Then there were the votes in IAEA at US's insistence. We should formulate a non-proliferation stand, and even take a position on Iran, but there is no need to making accusations at Iran from Western capitals.

There is a good case to make to USA, that India would consider to stop dealing with Iran, once USA stops dealing with Pakistan. Otherwise USA need not bring up the subject of Iran repeatedly. Tom Lantos is dead and so this issue should be dead as well.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by Rye »

Rajesh Saar, Instead of the IPI, it would be nice to have a roadway/railway project between Iran and India via Pakistan. This is kinda low risk, and would actually be useful for people-to-people contact should (by chance) friendly states like Sindh and Balochistan break away from Pakistani tyranny --- not that the Balochi and Sindhi tribes stand a chance as long as various super-powers are propping up the Pakistani Army that is holding the country together with bubble gum and sticky tape. While I am up with wishful thinking, it would be even nicer if India provided aid to all involved countries providing funds/expertise of Indian road/rail construction companies....and maybe, while I am at it, I can wish for a horse-cart with the horse behind the cart...like this post.

PS: Thanks for the correction about DC comics in the TSP thread...forgot all about them!
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by renukb »

India's relationship with Iran should be independent of US-TSP relationship. Let US supply F-16's or what ever. Let's see how will the TSP pay for all of that in the long run. Hydro carbon deals are important for India and Iran can supply that. If India can work with Russia and Iran, the TSP issue can be addressed. Even TSP seems to be interested in getting IPI done. I don't think TSP can afford to play games with India-Iran-Russia at the same time. The TSP will be burnt into ashes if they do so. It will be a big gamble for TSP to STOP gas supply to India, if IPI happens. More over India should pay no advance transit $$ to TSP, Pay them only after the delivery. Let India make sure that Russia, ex-soviet nations and Iran be part of the IPI as major stake holders. India's energy security will be taken care with more nuke reactors and IPI deals together. We need electricity as well as hydro carbons in the long run.

US is capable of taking care of its interests vis-a-vis Iran with or without India's help. India should not even give lip services to US, over Iran, just to please the unkle. That will make a friend (Iran) turn into a foe and this is not in our interests. We need to get both Iraq-Iran on our side and get GAS from both the nations along with getting it from Russia and other ex-soviet nations over IPI.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by renukb »

India to step up pressure for Iran gas
Link Here

India to make fresh proposals on Iran pipeline
http://www.hindu.com/2008/10/31/stories ... 331200.htm
Concerns remain over the cost, project structure and security of the gas pipeline

“Given India’s growing energy needs, it intends seriously to pursue the project”

New Delhi: Falling oil prices and the successful conclusion of the Indo-U.S. nuclear agreement have come together to produce a renewed Indian interest in the $7.4 million natural gas pipeline from Iran.

According to senior officials, External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee, who departs for Tehran on Friday for the 15th meeting of the India-Iran Joint Commission, will carry with him to Tehran a new set of proposals aimed at addressing the few outstanding concerns still remaining over the cost, project structure and security of the Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline.

The discussion India and Iran will have on the pipeline will build on the issues touched upon by both sides in their exchange of ‘non-papers’ earlier this year. During the visit to Delhi of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on April 29, India has drawn Tehran’s attention to a number of its concerns. The Iranian side replied to these concerns in July but matters did not progress any further as the Manmohan Singh government was wary of provoking the Bush administration at a time when Washington’s help was needed in the Nuclear Suppliers Group.

In its non-paper, Iran identified, for the first time, phases 19, 20 and 21 of the South Pars offshore gas field as the source for the gas to be fed into the IPI pipeline. Iran also said it was willing to examine a trilateral arrangement for the delivery of gas to India on the Pakistan-India border, as the Indian note had suggested.

In the absence of active Indian interest in the project, Pakistan has been suggesting running the pipeline northwards into China. But the Iranians are keen to reach agreement with India.

Among the specific ideas India intends to discuss with Iran on November 1 and 2 are the role that cross-investments in both upstream and downstream projects in all three countries could play in fostering co-dependency and confidence in the project. In addition, India would like to explore the possibility of Iran undertaking to provide alternative fuel to IPI gas-fed downstream projects in India in the event of supply disruption for any reason.

“The project is viable and good but the hype about a ‘peace pipeline’ has meant that we haven’t really been hard-nosed about the commercial details,” a senior Indian official told The Hindu. But given the country’s growing energy needs, India intends seriously to pursue the project, the official said.

If the passage of the NSG exemption and the 123 Agreement has eased some of the diplomatic pressure the Manmohan Singh government was feeling, the recent fall in oil prices is seen as strengthening the country’s negotiating hand on the prickly question of gas tariffs. With oil prices set to rise eventually as the world slowly pulls out of recession, India has a limited window to take advantage of.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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India should hope to join SCO one day...

China backs Iran joining regional security group – agency
Washington, 30 October (IranVNC)—Speaking on the sidelines of the 7th prime ministers’ meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization [SCO], China’s Prime Minister Wen Jiabao said that Beijing backed Iran’s admission as a member of the regional alliance.
China backs Iran joining regional security group – agency

RUSSIA – CHINA – SCO – TIES

Washington, 30 October (IranVNC)—Speaking on the sidelines of the 7th prime ministers’ meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization [SCO], China’s Prime Minister Wen Jiabao said that Beijing backed Iran’s admission as a member of the regional alliance.

Speaking yesterday with Iranian First Vice President Parviz Davoudi in Kazakhstan’s capital Astana, Jiabao was quoted by Iran’s official IRNA news agency as saying: “We believe that there is no obstacle on this way and the ground is well-prepared.”

The SCO, a regional group that includes Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan, addresses security and economic issues among its members. Iran, India, Pakistan and Mongolia hold observer status in the alliance, which was formed in 2001.

Tehran has previously expressed interest in becoming a permanent member, but its request was not considered at the last SCO foreign ministers’ meeting last July.

Jiabao also said that the long-standing dispute over Iran’s nuclear program should be resolved through diplomacy, but called on Tehran to show flexibility on the issue and address the concerns of the international community, China’s Xinhua news agency reports.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by renukb »

The impending strike on Iran
By David Fink

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JK01Ak02.html

US to Iran: Let's Get Back Together
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shirin-sa ... 39690.html

Having surrounded Iran with war and terrorist hunts -- confer Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Georgia -- the United States is openly admitting what its actions admitted long ago: America really wants Iran back in its life.

This week, the Bush administration -- the same one that's been threatening Iran for several years now -- let slip that shortly after America picks its next President a formal announcement will be made that the United States intends to open an "interests section" in Tehran.

For the first time in nearly 30 years, the US embassy in Tehran might actually have occupants other than Revolutionary Guards and getting wasted in its corridors. Yes, the doors may be opening to a new generation of American diplomats getting wasted in its corridors.

This story was barely covered by the US media and so, even as Republican Presidential candidate John McCain plows ahead with his Iran-is-the-enemy bulldozer, the American public has been left mostly oblivious to what is arguably one of the biggest milestones in US-Iran relations since the revolution itself. For Americans, the US embassy in Tehran was last known as the reason Ronald Reagan beat Jimmy Carter out of the presidency.

The US embassy in Tehran technically closed its doors on November 4th, 1979 when the infamous hostage crisis began. But it wasn't until January 20, 1981, just minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn in as the 40th President of the United States - when the 52 American hostages were released from their embassy prison after 444 days of incarceration - that the embassy officially ceased to be associated with Americans.

But before all this, Tehran was one of the most popular US embassies for American diplomats being posted abroad. The facilities were grand (the embassy covers an area of several city blocks), the country and its people were welcoming and abundant in charm and most of all, Iran and the US were really good buddies. The unfortunate blemish of the embassy's significant role in discarding Iran's popular and democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953 was old news just before 1979 rolled around and Americans realized that a whole bunch of Iranians just didn't forget what Kermit Roosevelt and the US government did to them.

Even today, the embassy is a constant reminder to Iranians of the extravagant presence of the United States in their country. Its size is only diminished by the even bigger (and still operating) embassy of the United Kingdom. Though it's portrayed as a ghost town and its walls have been painted over with shadowy skeletal Statue of Liberty guises and other spooky threats of US hegemony, the embassy is not haunted with absence. For many years now, it has been a sort of convention center and party house where members of Iran's Revolutionary Guards or even members of its government tend to hold conferences, banquets and other fun get togethers. As before, when the Embassy was in full force, the entrants to its bounties are limited to a select group of individuals who do not represent the majority of Iranians, their attitudes and their beliefs.

The irony of all this - that the hawkish Bush administration is the one American administration in nearly 30 years that is re-opening a base in Tehran - cannot be escaped. This is the administration - more than any since the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran in January 1979 - that has threatened, sanctioned, and aggressed against Iran. Even more ironic: they are doing exactly what their opponent, Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama has been saying for months: diplomacy with Iran is better than war.

Like an ex-girlfriend, the Bush administration has been stalking Iran for awhile now. The regional conflicts and tensions that the US is leading in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria and Georgia are all in nations contiguous with or neighboring Iran. In 2006, the US moved into Iran's neighborhood with the establishment of the Iran Regional Presence Office in the. It was only a matter of time before the US just upped the ante and decided to move right back in with Iran itself.

Of course, as with many Bush administration announcements, this one also contains an element of dishonesty. This is not the first time that the Bush administration has reached out to Iran. Bush & Co. have been engaged in diplomatic negotiations and meetings with Iran for several years now, not least because they desperately require Iran's help with the not-so-little problem of Iraq. In some ways, the "interests section" of the United States in Tehran is not just a declaration of improved relations but a reminder to Iran that even though they broke up years ago, they've got to at least feign friendship because there's just too much history there.

Mostly though, the US really needs Iran right now: the War on Terror is rather shaping up as a shambles and Iran remains the only stable force in the region that can bring about any resolution to the rapidly deteriorating problems faced by the US. Iran already has a massive presence in Eastern Iraq and is in a position to expand that influence further. In addition, its deep cultural and religious influence on its neighbors makes it a critical strategic power in these conflicts.

For the Iranian public, the Bush administration announcement will generally be looked upon favorably: Iranians have always had a soft spot for Americans, especially in comparison to the British who are regarded as plotters in Iranian folklore. American cultural imports are an obvious element of Iranian lives - as they are in most of the world. But more than anything, Iranians still sincerely regard the United States as a unique opportunity to realize dreams.

This week, it seems, the United States admitted that it believes the same of Iran.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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Iran hasevery right to develop nuclear energy: India
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=181375

NEW DELHI (IRNA) -- India's External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee has emphasized Iran's right to develop nuclear technology for peaceful uses.

“We firmly are of the view that Iran has every right to develop nuclear energy for peaceful purposes,” he noted.

In an interview with IRNA ahead of departure to Tehran, Mukherjee explained his opinion about his visit to Tehran for participating in Iran-India joint commission before he left India.

Excerpts of interview:

Q: Your Excellency's visit to Tehran is taking place in a desirable circumstance after the inking of the U.S.-India nuclear deal, the visit is, in fact, an affirmation of the strong relations between Iran and India and a rejection of the rumors that the deal may influence the ties between Tehran and New Delhi. What is your views in this regard?

Pranab: India-Iran relations are important in themselves because of our historic, civilizational as well as contemporary ties. Regular exchange of high level visits has always been characteristic of our relations. This is in fact my third visit in about 20 months and underscores both the importance which India gives to its relations with Iran as also the substantive interests India and Iran have in common.

Q: It seems that the relations between Iran and India have to be evaluated without the prospect of peace pipeline. How do you think about this?

Pranab: India and Iran have a broad based relationship and no single issue defines it in its entirety. Energy security is important for India and Iran as a major hydrocarbon exporting country. The energy aspect of our relationship is therefore also extremely important. Both sides are committed to the Iran-Pakistan-India Gas Pipeline Project which is an important part of our much wider relationship on energy related issues.

Q: What percentage of the energy need of India would be met by the U.S.-India nuclear deal? Which are the other plans India is looking for to have access to the secure energy resources?

Pranab: As an energy deficient country we have to use all available sources of energy - Thermal, Hydro, Nuclear, Solar, Wind, etc. Just as the Civil Nuclear Agreement is important from our energy security point of view, similarly, other sources are also important and we will pursue all possible sources to meet our energy requirements so as to ensure that our developmental goals are fully achieved.

Q: NAM has increased its influence on the international developments. Do you think that NAM will regain its earlier strong position in the international levels.

Pranab: NAM continues to provide the guiding principle of the foreign policies of many countries and has continued relevance for the countries of Asia and the entire developing world India as a founder member of NAM is convinced of the continued importance.

Q: The Western and Indian media have said many things on the recent remarks of the Indian Prime Minister about Iran's peaceful nuclear activities. What exactly was the context of the Prime Minister's remarks? Particularly, it is said that the Prime Minister uttered the remarks keeping in mind the U.S.-India nuclear deal.

Pranab: In my view the Prime Minister stated our position which is well known. We have all along been saying that all issues relating to Iran's Nuclear Programme must be resolved through dialogue and understanding and that confrontation must be avoided. We believe that the IAEA must play a central role in resolving all the outstanding issue.

Q: As your Excellency is well aware, the negotiations between Iran and the Group of 5+1 are advancing well and it seems that the group is satisfied. Particularly, the reports of the Secretary General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) endorse a good cooperation of Iran with the world body. Since, Your Excellency had earlier said that Iran's nuclear issue has to be taken out of the political concept and put it into a technical and legal one, how do you see the process in this regard?

Pranab: As I said we believe that the IAEA must play a central role in this process. We firmly are of the view that Iran has every right to develop nuclear energy for peaceful purposes and in a manner that is consistent with its international obligations and commitments.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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Iran-India-Pakistan cooperation would restore regional security: Rafsanjani

TEHRAN – Expediency Council Chairman Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani on Sunday called for closer cooperation between Iran, India, and Pakistan in their efforts to bring back “tranquility” to the war-torn Afghanistan.

“Resolving the current crisis in Afghanistan requires extensive cooperation between the Islamic Republic of Iran, India and Pakistan. This cooperation can bring tranquility to the region,” Rafsanjani told visiting Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee.

He said the situation of foreign troops in Afghanistan is similar to that of the Soviet army in 1979-1989 war.

“The experience of the Soviet Union’s presence in this country shows that the path the West is now treading in Afghanistan will not yield the desired results. The signs that are currently observed in Afghanistan show that the West is not capable of resolving the problems of this country.”

Elsewhere in his remarks, Rafsanjani said Iran and India enjoy centuries-old relations. “India has a special place in Iran’s strategy of ‘look to the East’,” he stated.

Rafsanjani, who also heads the Assembly of Experts, added, “Iran is determined to boost its relations with India.”

Iran, Pakistan, and India have been negotiating a deal to transmit Iran’s gas to India via Pakistan.

“The world’s energy demand … has made the implementation of the project inevitable,” he said in reference to the trilateral project dubbed the Peace Pipeline.

Rafsanjani added, “The implementation of this great project is the symbol of cooperation between the (three) countries.”

The Expediency Council chief also said a scientific cooperation between Iran and India is very important as the two countries has made great progress in different scientific fields in recent years.

For his part, the Indian diplomat insisted that “no country outside the region can find a solution to the problems of regional countries, and the regional nations themselves should resolve the problems through cooperation with each other.”

Mukherjee said India, Iran, and Pakistan play important roles in regional events. Further cooperation between the trio would help establish peace and stability in the region, he asserted
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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Iran ready for closer ties with India
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=181486

TEHRAN – Foreign Minister Manuchehr Mottaki on Sunday called for expansion of cooperation between Iran and India.

Regular meetings between Iranian and Indian officials show that the two countries are determined to boost their bilateral relations, Mottaki told a seminar on indo-Iran relations which was also attended by Indian foreign minister.

He expressed satisfaction with the two countries’ growing economic relations, saying Iran-India trade stands at $9.33 billion.

“India is one of the most important trade partners of Iran,” he asserted.

Mottaki stated that the two countries have the potential to further bolster their cooperation in trade economic, industrial, and cultural spheres. “Iran-India joint economic commission is a good venue for expansion of bilateral relations.”

He went on to say that Iran and India share common stance on many regional and international issues including the crises in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“Both countries want peace and stability in the region and believe that the territorial integrity of the regional countries should be protected. Iran and India are against unilateralism and insist on respecting the rights of other nations.”

----------- Iran, India ancient neighbors

The seminar was also addressed by Indian Minister of External Affairs Pranab Mukherjee.

The minister said Iran and India have historical relations and bringing stability to the region is the two countries’ common concern.

Mukherjee said, Iran and India shared common borders until 1947 and today they are both neighbors to Afghanistan and Pakistan. Obviously, developments in these countries affect both Iran and India, he stated

“Recent history has deprived us of geographical contiguity but we are, and always will remain close friends because of our historical links and the contemporary substance of our relationship,” he said.

He said the ground is fertile for closer cooperation between Tehran and New Delhi especially in energy sector. “Iran is a major energy exporter, while India is amongst the fastest growing energy markets in the world,” Mukherjee said.

Elsewhere in his remarks, the Indian minister said that New Delhi did not sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in the 1960s because it believed the treaty was fundamentally unequal.

“At that time, being a dissenter meant pressure, costs and burdens but, in our view, accepting an unequal arrangement would have been worse.”
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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Iran, Indiaink several MOUs
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=181480

TEHRAN (IRNA) -- The Islamic Republic of Iran and India inked several memoranda of understanding at the end of the 15th Iran-India Economic Commission meeting here on Sunday.


At the meeting, the Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee and the Iranian Justice Minister Gholam Hossein Elham signed agreement on judiciary cooperation as well as extradition of culprits and criminals.

Another MOU on economic cooperation was signed by the Indian foreign minister and Iran's Minister of Economic Affairs and Finance Shamseddin Hosseini.

An MOU was also signed by Iran's Deputy Commerce Minister and Head of Foreign Investment Organization Behrouz Alishiri and the Indian ambassador to Tehran.

Various MOUs such as sisterhood between the Indian port of Jawaharlal Nehru and Bandar Shahid Rajaei of Iran, organizing joint exhibitions as well as agricultural cooperation were among the other agreements signed by the two sides.

The 15th Iran-India Economic Cooperation meeting ended on Sunday afternoon.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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Barak slams Russian ties to Iran

Defense minister meets with EU ambassadors over Tehran nuclear threat, warns that 'so long as Russia, China and India do not join the nations imposing sanctions on Iran, it will have allies to do business

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 67,00.html
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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renukb wrote:India's relationship with Iran should be independent of US-TSP relationship. Let US supply F-16's or what ever. Let's see how will the TSP pay for all of that in the long run. Hydro carbon deals are important for India and Iran can supply that. If India can work with Russia and Iran, the TSP issue can be addressed. Even TSP seems to be interested in getting IPI done. I don't think TSP can afford to play games with India-Iran-Russia at the same time. The TSP will be burnt into ashes if they do so. It will be a big gamble for TSP to STOP gas supply to India, if IPI happens. More over India should pay no advance transit $$ to TSP, Pay them only after the delivery. Let India make sure that Russia, ex-soviet nations and Iran be part of the IPI as major stake holders. India's energy security will be taken care with more nuke reactors and IPI deals together. We need electricity as well as hydro carbons in the long run.

US is capable of taking care of its interests vis-a-vis Iran with or without India's help. India should not even give lip services to US, over Iran, just to please the unkle. That will make a friend (Iran) turn into a foe and this is not in our interests. We need to get both Iraq-Iran on our side and get GAS from both the nations along with getting it from Russia and other ex-soviet nations over IPI.
Pranab: both nuclear deal, IPI pipeline for energy Indian
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Prana ... rgy/380517
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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Mukherjee predicts Iran will be India’s biggest energy provider

TEHRAN – Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee has predicted that Iran will be the biggest energy provider to India. Mukherjee has also expressed hope that India would participate in Iran’s oil and gas projects especially in South Pars Gas field.

The India top diplomat arrived in Tehran for a three-day visit as Tehran and New Delhi are holding their joint economic commission meeting.

In a statement issued on Saturday, the Indian foreign minister also reiterated that his country is determined to push ahead for the implementation of the 2,600-kilometer Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) pipeline which would carry Iranian gas to Pakistan and India.

In the statement Mukherjee called for talks between India and Pakistan to resolve “existing problems” in order to take practical steps for implementing the pipeline project which is also known as “peace pipeline.”

Mukherjee said, “An enhancement of traditional economic ties between Iran and India will strengthen the economies of the two countries.”

Meanwhile, Iranian Oil Minister Gholam-Hossein Nozari announced that India has expressed its willingness to invest in Phase 12 of South Pars Gas Field which was agreed by Iran.

“The country has expressed its interest to invest in Phase 12 of the South Pars which we also announced our readiness,” Nozari said in a joint press conference with Mukherjee.

Nozari also said India is interested in constructing “the peace pipeline” and doing projects in Iran’s “Fars Oil Field.”
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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N-deal with US not at cost of IPI: Pranab

TEHRAN: India on Sunday said that the Indo-US civil nuclear deal was not at the cost of the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline as atomic power was one of its sources to ensure the fast growing economy's energy security.

Nuclear power "is one source of energy, the other important source is the Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) gas pipeline. One is not exclusive to the other," External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee said at a joint press conference with Iranian Economic Minister Shamseddin Hossein.

They were interacting with reporters after concluding the two-day Joint Commission Meeting set up by the two countries.

Mukherjee asserted that the nuclear deal with the US will have no impact on the IPI gas pipeline.

"India's energy requirement is quite substantial and we have to locate various sources of energy, including civil nuclear cooperation with countries like the US, France and Russia or any other country willing to cooperate with us," he said.

Asked about the implementation of the Liquified Natural Gas project, Hossein said there are lots of financial and technical issues that have to be considered.

"All negotiations have not been finalised. We will sign it when all negotiations are completed," he said adding that the magnitude of the project is such the deal has not been signed.

India and Iran and signed the LNG project in 2005 but Tehran had raised issues of pricing of the gas citing rise in global prices leading to non-implementation of the deal.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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India should not make this IPI a tri party issue between IPI nations, rather we should get in Russia and other ex-SU antions in to the project. This will ensure that IPI remains a peaceful means of energy security for India, not only that it will also enable India to get Gas from Russia and Turkeministan and other neighbouring nations with little extra efforts. Even strategically, Pakistan can not afford to severe its relationship with all the neighbouring nations in the long run. More importantly in todays world, they can not afford to loose vital $$ they earn from the deal. I believe that IPI can help the nations within the region.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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India wants Iran gas at its door for payment
NEW DELHI: India is unwilling to pay for the Iranian gas transported through the proposed $7.6 billion Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) gas pipeline unless it is delivered at the India-Pakistan border.
Tehran is interested in delivering the gas at the Iran-Pakistan border, but New Delhi is concerned about its safe passage through the Pakistani territory in light of the growing terrorist activities across the border. Iran has expressed willingness to evolve a contractual mechanism for safe delivery of the gas to India.

“India has to ensure that liability to pay for the gas supplied by Iran is directly linked with its delivery at the India-Pakistan border,” an official source said. The negotiators have the Cabinet’s mandate to seek delivery of gas at the India-Pakistan border.

In February 2005, the Cabinet authorised the ministry of petroleum and natural gas (MoPNG) to engage in bilateral and multilateral negotiations with Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh and other countries for laying trans-national natural gas pipelines.
Iran has reportedly suggested a trilateral mechanism for ensuring gas delivery at the India-Pakistan border. But it may still not supply gas at the Pakistan-India border. “It has suggested contractual provisions (in the gas sales purchase agreement) among the three countries to ensure safe delivery of gas to India,” the source said.
According to sources close to the development, India may construct and manage the IPI pipeline on the Pakistani side through a tripartite joint venture, but neither India nor Pakistan will be able to construct the pipeline in Iranian territory due to US sanctions. :!:

Legal experts have advised New Delhi against investing in Iran’s upstream development. “Development of the pipeline within Iran should be a separate project, compared to the pipeline extending from the Iran-Pakistan border to the Indian border,” a source said.

New Delhi has adopted a cautious approach towards the 2135-km pipeline project on apprehensions of supply cuts arising out of geo-political factors. India, however, clarified that the nuclear deal will not impact the proposed pipeline.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by renukb »

India seeks 'velvet divorce' from Iran: By M K Bhadrakumar

Amid the rubble of the Middle East policy of the George W Bush-Ehud Olmert duo, there has been a true success story. The United States and Israel have largely succeeded in snatching India from the "other" side of the Middle Eastern geopolitical divide. This became evident more than once in the past week.

On October 26, US forces based in Iraq attacked the Syrian border village of Sukkaryiah. The attack triggered outrage regionally. Even the Arab League, which has an ambivalent attitude toward Damascus, felt compelled to condemn Washington. But Delhi looked away. Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, who paid a five-day visit to India in June - the first visit by a Syrian head of state in more than three decades - must be bemused why Delhi didn't say at least what was so patently obvious, namely, it is wrong to violate the territorial integrity of a sovereign country.

Only in June had an Indian spokesman claimed that Assad's visit "further consolidated the excellent relations that exist between India and Syria and identified new areas of bilateral cooperation".

This dichotomy in India's diplomacy with regard to the Muslim Middle East - excellent photo opportunities not quite translating as official policy and ultimately degenerating as publicity exercises in the competitive environment of Indian politics - was again on display during the weekend visit to Tehran by Indian External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee, from October 31 to November 2.

Kashmir issue in focus
Mukherjee's visit was badly timed. Only a few weeks had passed since Delhi hosted two visits by the Israeli and US army chiefs, Avi Mizrahi and George Casey, to the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir in a clear policy departure from past practice. The visits marked a quantum leap in US-Israel-India security cooperation. It provoked some sharp comments in the official Iranian media - about Delhi opening the door to Israeli and US involvement in the "Kashmir problem" against the backdrop of the Islamic militancy in the adjoining Pakistani tribal areas and in Afghanistan.

Just four days before Mukherjee arrived in Tehran, the Tehran Times newspaper, which is credited with reflecting Iranian thinking, featured an article roundly condemning the Indian stance on the Kashmir issue. Titled "The Black Day of Kashmir - 61 years of pain", the article was ostensibly meant to coincide with the anniversary of the Indian military intervention in Kashmir on October 27, 1947, which it called "one of the darkest chapters in the history of South Asia".

The article amounted to an unvarnished endorsement of the Pakistani point of view. It said, "India continues to defy the world by denying Kashmiris their inalienable right to determine their destiny ... The atmosphere of tension in India-Pakistan relations has engendered instability and insecurity in South Asia. The urgency of the situation and the need to resolve the dispute as soon as possible cannot be over-emphasized ... The world's Muslims will always stand by the Kashmiris until they succeed in their struggle to attain the right to self-determination."

The lengthy article recalled Iran's "deep-rooted spiritual and cultural bonds with the people of Kashmir" and went on to fondly underscore that in Tehran, Kashmir is known as "Little Iran" - Kashmir-Iran-e-saghir.

Such rhetoric on the eve of a foreign minister-level visit from India hardly served the purpose of a "curtain-raiser", except to warn Delhi in advance that it cannot be business as usual in Iran-India relations and that the chill in bilateral ties and the dissipation of mutual understanding must not be lightly taken as a mere hiccup.
Simply put, if Delhi's intention was to project a semblance of normalcy in India's relations with Iran and to create a favorable impact thereby on Muslim opinion in India, Tehran decided it would not play ball.

Washington and Tel Aviv must be quietly chuckling. Up until some three years ago, there was a constant refrain in India-Iran political exchanges - that their relationship constituted a factor of peace and stability in the region. But the mantra was completely lacking in the pronouncements of the two sides during Mukherjee's visit. The two countries are drifting apart.

Indian naval deployment
Mukherjee candidly admitted that "in this changing context, we need to look at India-Iran relations afresh". Indeed, that "context" is dramatically changing. A fortnight before the visit, Delhi deployed for the first time ever a warship in the Persian Gulf region, which will operate in close coordination with the Western navies under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in the region.

Mukherjee assertively said in Tehran, "India has a natural and abiding stake in the safety and security of the sea lanes of communication from the Malacca Strait to the Persian Gulf."

But Delhi didn't consult Tehran beforehand. Delhi instead approached Oman for assistance in berthing facilities for its warship. Tehran, meanwhile, views the Western naval deployments in the Persian Gulf with alarm. Last week, Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister Manuchehr Mohammadi criticized the expansion of NATO to the east and called on regional governments to "distance themselves from competitive and hostile policies".

Tehran would have most certainly noted Delhi's decision to host a large-scale naval exercise with the US along India's western coast in late October in which the nuclear-powered American aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan and US nuclear submarines and frigates participated. Iran has since announced the opening of a new naval base in the southern port of Jask in the eastern part of the Strait of Hormuz. According to the chief of the Iranian navy, Admiral Habibollah Sayari, "With this new naval base, a new line of defense was created in the Persian Gulf. If necessary, we can prevent any enemy from entering the Persian Gulf's strategic area."

Sayari announced that Iran proposed to build yet another naval base to establish "an impenetrable line of defense at the entrance to the Sea of Oman". He added, "If the enemy goes insane, we will drown them at the bottom of the Indian Ocean and the Sea of Oman before they reach the Strait of Hormuz and the entrance to the Persian Gulf." Curiously, the Iranian announcement coincided with the consultations of Indian National Security Advisor M K Narayanan in Oman regrading an Indian proposal that the sultanate provide berthing facilities for the Indian warship deployed in the region.

Though Mukherjee's visit to Tehran ended on Sunday, it has not yet been revealed whether President Mahmud Ahmadinejad received him. A call on the Iranian president - and, perhaps Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei - was customary for visiting Indian foreign ministers in the halcyon days of the India-Iran strategic partnership. In another sign of the change in the Iranian mood, Tehran "downgraded" the Joint Economic Commission with India. Mottaki is no longer its co-chairman, as is the practice with Iran's other major interlocutors and partner countries.

Thus, a series of icebergs has been lately slicing through the hull of the Titanic that used to be the grand old India-Iran "strategic partnership". A disaster was waiting to happen ever since India voted against Iran at the International Atomic Energy Agency three years ago following US President George W Bush's entreaties with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

Pipedream of energy cooperation
At the root of it lies unprecedented US-Israeli interference in India's Iran policy. Such interference is nothing new since the early 1990s, when Delhi established diplomatic relations with Israel. Delhi skillfully navigated the relationship with Iran, despite the robust growth of ties with Israel on a parallel track.

However, things began changing three to four years ago as Indian foreign policy in the region began getting more "security-centric" and Israel was elevated as a pivotal relationship. Today, in the Iranian perception, Delhi's avowal that it is capable of buttressing the India-Iran relationship from the predatorial skill of US and Israeli diplomacy lacks credibility.

Tehran used to respect India's perceived political will to retain its autonomy of action and thinking on regional issues. That confidence seems to have evaporated. Mottaki forcefully pleaded with Mukherjee that the two countries should focus on a relationship that served their "real interests" rather than fall into the "conspiracies of foreign powers" which hatch "mischief aimed at sowing discord" in Iran-India relations.

The litmus test is the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project. It is obvious that Delhi is dragging its feet on the project, despite its great potential to boost India's energy security - all because of US and Israeli pressure. Tehran finds itself in a dilemma. No doubt it is keen to partner with India in the project, but Tehran realizes that political will is lacking in Delhi.

At the same time, Tehran cannot cut out India altogether as it estimates it is only logical that some day soon, under a different leadership in Delhi, India will revert to this project in its compelling self-interest. The Iranian frustration showed when Oil Minister Gholamhossein Nozari told the media soon after Mukherjee concluded his visit, "Considering that we have lost many opportunities in the 'peace pipeline' project due to India's procrastination, we have told that country to engage more actively."

The US$7.5 billion, 2,700-kilometer pipeline has been in discussion for almost two decades. The pipeline is to begin from Iran's Assalouyeh energy zone in the south and stretch over 1,100 kilometers through Iran. In Pakistan it is to pass through Balochistan and Sindh before linking up Rajasthan and Gujarat in western India.

Strategy toward Afghanistan
Again, the geopolitics of the region dictate that Delhi and Tehran explore the frontiers of a common strategy towards Afghanistan at a time when the Taliban's resurgence is apparent and its induction by the US into a coalition government in Kabul in the not-too-distant future appears highly probable. Mukherjee could have conceivably utilized the visit for such purpose.

The Iranian side indeed appeared keen for purposeful dialogue on Afghanistan. But Delhi isn't willing. The priority in the Indian mindset is to harmonize its regional policies with the US (and Israel) as regards the "war on terror". That includes Delhi's Afghan policy.

The powerful chairman of Iran's Expediency Council and former president, Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, told Mukherjee, "Resolving the current crisis in Afghanistan requires extensive cooperation between Iran, India and Pakistan. This cooperation can bring tranquility to the region ... The experience of the Soviet Union in this country [Afghanistan] shows that the path the West is now treading in Afghanistan will not yield the desired results. The signs that are currently observed in Afghanistan show that the West is not capable of resolving the problems of this country."

Mukherjee responded, "No country outside the region can find a solution to the problems of regional countries and the regional states themselves should resolve the problems through cooperation with each other." He added that India, Iran and Pakistan could play "important roles in regional events" and their cooperation would "help establish peace and stability" in the region.

The Indian timidity is despite the fact that India and Iran were staunch allies supporting the anti-Taliban alliance until the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. Delhi would be aware that Tehran has sharply reacted to the current US, British, Saudi and Pakistani efforts to accommodate the Taliban. Actually, the Indian and Iranian positions have striking similarity insofar as neither thinks there is anything conceivable as "good Taliban". Yet, Delhi shies from coordinating with Tehran lest it tread on US-Israeli sensitivities.

The Obama factor
So far so good. But what happens if a Barack Obama presidency moves toward normalization of relations with Iran? Indeed, Russia and China seem to be getting ready for such an eventuality. Iran's admission into the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) as a full member has now become a certainty, with both the Russian and Chinese prime ministers affirming their support of the Iranian candidacy. Iran has been offered membership of the Black Sea Union. Russia is forming a gas cartel with Iran. (The SCO comprises China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.)

Above all, Delhi will face a new situation if Obama revisits the "war on terror". As well-known Lebanese commentator Rami Khouri thoughtfully wrote, "US-backed governments in half a dozen countries are losing their battles and political confrontations with Islamist-led indigenous oppositions, and have to form national unity governments or explore other means of power ... The American-Afghan tentative move to engage the Taliban politically is ... a welcome sign that Washington is finally learning the value of seeing and resolving conflicts in their wider local and regional context. We may well see something similar happen in Iraq, including American-Iranian-Saudi-Syrian contacts in the near future."

During his visit to Tehran, Mukherjee characterized the Persian Gulf as India's "proximate neighborhood", but there is no evidence Delhi has thought through its Middle East policy against the backdrop of impending shifts and realignments in the geopolitics of the region. Creative diplomacy lies in keeping all options open at a time of extreme volatility in regional politics.

On the other hand, it is a measure of the success of the US-Israeli diplomacy in recent years that Delhi increasingly finds itself at odds with Tehran's growing ambitions as a regional power, whereas sufficient elbow room is available for them to co-exist. There is no real clash of interests between India and Iran. So, ultimately, who is to blame - Washington, Tel Aviv or New Delhi?

As far as Tehran is concerned, it is countering the US's containment strategy and India's political support is no more an imperative need in the denouement of the Iran nuclear file. Moreover, as Iran's engagement by the West advances, Tehran will have no dearth of partners for energy cooperation. Least of all, the Gulf Cooperation Council states themselves are seeking accommodation with Iran and, arguably, they won't need India as a "balancer". The net result is that any weakening of India's strong ties with Iran at the present juncture can only debilitate Delhi's overall foreign policy in the Persian Gulf region in the critical period that lies ahead.

Delhi may ruffle feathers not only in Tehran but in regional capitals too - apart from Islamabad - if it presses ahead with the claim to be the pre-eminent power between the Persian Gulf and the Malacca Strait.

The Persian Gulf is a tough neighborhood and any grandstanding will not pass unnoticed. With only a fortnight to go for Manmohan to pay his first-ever visit to Saudi Arabia, Riyadh abruptly sought a postponement. If there is any political symbolism behind the Saudi move, it will surely emerge.


Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar was a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. His assignments included the Soviet Union, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Germany, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait and Turkey.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by RajeshA »

India should go ahead with the IPI Pipeline and a strategic partnership with Iran and bluntly tell USA, that only a direct Indian access to Central Asia would make India rethink India's dependence on and strategic relationship with Iran. So it is time for USA to rethink their policy of using Pakistan as a hedge against India.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by renukb »

IPI is a wonderful opportunity for India to stabilize the region to a greater degree. It can not only bring natural Gas plus also hopefully the peace and stability in the region. I hope GOI see the light here, and don't get paranoid over security issues, which can be addressed especially when the deal earns $$ for all the 3 involved. Especially this new poodle of USA, the GOI should start thinking about taking care of its interests ahead of Israel's or USA's.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by RajeshA »

The region can of course be best stabilized by taking out the biggest factor causing instability, Pakistan.

Good relations with Iran should be high priority for India, but not at the cost of giving TSP a new lease of life. In fact, India should cold-shoulder American objections as far as relations with Iran are concerned. If Iran is willing to be helpful to India in taking down Pakistan, then a better geography can ensure an improvement in trade and security relations with Iran.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by ashish raval »

Indian policy makers should know the very important fact that Iranians were nothing more than looters of Indian wealth in the past. A few of them though encouraged bi-lateral cultural exchange but it was usually from Indian side to Iranian side. Iranians view everyone with suspicion. Even today every Iranian muslims are proud of their plundering made in India and proudly point to Peacock throne brought back from India in Tehran Museum which is Just Tip of Iceberg of what they have plundered. The real Iranians, the parsi's who made that country great in the past are very liberal and diehard Indian supporters but they are nearly extinct on the face of earth. Iranians dont trust even the most trusted friends needless to say, they dont trust Indians a shred whatsoever. They dont mind back stabbing if they are gaining enourmously, right now they are an isolated regime in the world so they cannot afford to fire at anyone. If they dont change their attitude, they will go Iraq way for sure. Today the only source of cultural exchange seems to be bollywood movie between India and Iran. All the talk of wiping out Israel is bull cr** as their real enemy is Arabs and the know very well that they are weaker than Israel by several factors and dont afford any war with Israel and if water comes to neck, Israel will declare itself Nuclear nation to turn the tide of any war.

If Iranians want to look otherway they will be the loosers.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by Vikas »

The whole article from atimes smacks of POV from Iran as if India must do everything to please Iran even if they raise the price of the Gas, even if it means paying money Pakistan (so that they can launch more Jehadis into India), even if there is no guarantee that the pipeline will not be blown to pieces.
Whatever people may say, I don't remember occasions when Iran openly supported India.The historical relations India had with Iran were of looters and plunderers from Muslim world crossing through Iran into India. Where is the historical memory of those wonderful relations. Can someone site even a single example of those relations.
If India needs Iran, so does iran need India. We will care for our interests, if it means aligning with Western world so be it. Why does Iran gets khujli if COAS from US and Israel visit J&K. What is their beef ?
Delhi may ruffle feathers not only in Tehran but in regional capitals too - apart from Islamabad - if it presses ahead with the claim to be the pre-eminent power between the Persian Gulf and the Malacca Strait.
Well tough luck.If we are the pre-eminent power between the Persian Gulf and the Malacca Strait , Counteries in the neighbourhood better start accepting the fact.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

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Do we need Iran to support India on Kashmir? Do we care? We never cared earlier, and we don't in the future. What happened in the past can't be corrected. If I am not wrong, Rajiv Gandhi was a farsi and so are the Tata's. Their contribution to India is huge.

Times have changed and India is in a better position to negotiate. If we can stabilize the region thru IPI, by getting Iran on our side and also by getting Russians on board for the IPI project and if we can have security arrangements chalked out with all of them to ensure fluent flow of OIL and GAS to India, it is a win win not for just India but for all in the region. Neither India or Iran or Pakistan should miss this opportunity. If we do miss this boat, after 30 years your and my children will be talking about blunders by ManMohan Singh and UPI, just like we talked about several missed boats by the Nehru, Gandhi's. Have you met any Iranians in US or in India? They share a very warm relationship / sentiments with Indians. For what Nadir Shah did in the 9'th century, you can't go that far back and take revenge now. We need to look forward.

India needs to be more pragmatic than being emotional based on historical wrongs. TRUST me, No other country has hurt India in our post independence history as badly as the United States, by using their Proxies like TSP and even China. In fact US has bled Indian blood using TSP and China. If our memories are so short and we can ignore the past with the US, we should do the same with Iranians or for that matter even with the Pakistanis, if it benefits Indians. If India can make deals with the US, who has been the biggest thorn in India's growth for the past 60 years after our independence, and bled Indian blood in the past, we can deal with Iranians as well.

Indian babudom can not hold our trade and foreign relationship hostage and mortgaged to the US, Israeli agendas / interests in the region. US and Israelis are capable of taking care of their problems with or without India's help. What India needs to do is to ensure that our neighbours remain warm to us, than making or turning them hostile against us. I am not saying that if IPI goes wrong, Iranians will be hostile towards India, but if IPI works out well, it will be a big boost to our foreign policies in our neighbourhood and this type of economic co-operation between neighbouring nations will bring stability in the region. Of course we can get into trouble, if we don't build our military. This is the mistake we did in the past. India should seriously think of spending atleast 3.5 - 4 % of our GDP on defence. If you are strong, TSP may not think of blocking or disrupting the gas suply. But if it comes to a war, then WAR it is. No one can predict what happens after the war! But you can't loose peace and prosperity NOW, thinking about a future war which may or may not occur. Just be prepared for it. We need not have to be paranoid nations like US or Israel.

Who is US or Israel to dictate India what we should be doing and with whom we should trade or not? Why are they stopping GOI not to go ahead with IPI, and why is GOI heeding to them? India needs OIL and GAS as much as we need nuke generated electric power.
Last edited by renukb on 04 Nov 2008 21:46, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by Rony »

Is Mr.Bhadrakumar a Indian or an Iranian ? What kind of bull s.ht article is that ? If Iran has a problem with accepting India as the pre eminent power in the middle east then let the iranians go to hell ! Why should it is always India which has to please others.Iran never supported India on Kashmir as Iraq did.Then why should India bend over to a country which is much much inferior to it in all aspects ? Through out the history Iranians looted India and they never regreted that. Iran through out its history always intruded into Indian subcontinent.Its high time that India stop thinking about every ali ,arash and abbas and start taking decisions based on its interests.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by vavinash »

Someone needs to put that moron bhadrakumar out of his misery and give him a one way ticket to iran. India does not need Iran , Iran which is isolated and has to buy petrol and processed oil from outside needs India more. India needs to highlight the plight of poor balochis who are being trampled by Porkis and Iranians. It makes a lot of sense to have a hands off approach on Iran unless americans are stupid enough to change George bush's policy on India or kashmir. If US turns Iran into a wasteland then it is no skin off our back. If russia or china want they can fight for iran. (Rest assured they won't). If these worthless countries (Iran, pakistan and saudi) haven't seen the writing on the wall regarding who is the eminent power in the area they are in for a rude wake up call.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by Prem »

renukb wrote:IPI is a wonderful opportunity for India to stabilize the region to a greater degree. It can not only bring natural Gas plus also hopefully the peace and stability in the region. I hope GOI see the light here, and don't get paranoid over security issues, which can be addressed especially when the deal earns $$ for all the 3 involved. Especially this new poodle of USA, the GOI should start thinking about taking care of its interests ahead of Israel's or USA's.

Indian interest are better served by either the destructiuon of this region or coming it under Indian control. in 20-30 years Indian influence need to extend from From Malaca to Mecca to Mosul , all under our own protection. This ought be our natural periphery.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by ramana »

never shoot the messenger for you dont like the message. The guy has atleast gamed the situation and is coming out with unpalatable reuslts for sarkari group think. After the first apoplectic fit read it again and see what he is saying.

A strategic relationship was there with Iran even if we ordinary folks dont know or see the forthing reported by Western media. That one is now in tatters. He should know for he was desk officer when that relationship was built. And the relationship is tattering without any hedging.

And all that puffedup stance due to economy can and will be deflated. So dont rely on that to make oyur calculations.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by ramana »

One option is to put a minimum say 200 % of TSP transit fees in India in escrow and on non-performance seize the assets or Iran withholds a set amount of the transit fees to ensure contract performance and allows a couple of airbases near Baloch for future hedge..

Saying india will pay FOB or FOP is a non sequitor. It means India is givng Iran a say in TSP affairs also.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by vavinash »

ramana wrote:never shoot the messenger for you dont like the message. The guy has atleast gamed the situation and is coming out with unpalatable reuslts for sarkari group think. After the first apoplectic fit read it again and see what he is saying.

A strategic relationship was there with Iran even if we ordinary folks dont know or see the forthing reported by Western media. That one is now in tatters. He should know for he was desk officer when that relationship was built. And the relationship is tattering without any hedging.

And all that puffedup stance due to economy can and will be deflated. So dont rely on that to make oyur calculations.
The strategic relation only existed as long as pakis were unkils obedient poodles, SU was in tatters and china too weak an economic power to influence iran. Currently the situation is very different and the strategic relation was bound the change. All that can be done is to ensure that the relationship do not deteriorate to enemity. Iran is a terrorist supporting nation, so India does not need to go beyond its means to defend iran. If Iran wants to go with chinks and porkis, India should open up to Oman, Qatar and Yemen.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by ramana »

how do you know uncle is with India on TSP? its not clever to lose relationships without ensuring all other options are sewn up. And the admin is changing in US.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by vavinash »

I never said US is with india. Just that Russia is on the rebound and china is a major buyer of iranian oil. They don't depend on india as much now. Rather than depend on just Iran India should spread influence with arabs also.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by Rye »

http://newshopper.sulekha.com/newsitem/ ... pranab.htm

Iranian news agency IRNA reports: Pranab to focus on IPI gas pipeline deal

http://www2.irna.com/en/news/view/menu- ... 124748.htm

Iran has every right to develop nuclear energy: Pranab

http://www1.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-2 ... 143732.htm
Q.2: It seems that the relations between Iran and India have to be evaluated without the prospect of peace pipeline. How do you think about this?
Pranab: India and Iran have a broad based relationship and no single issue defines it in its entirety. Energy security is important for India and Iran as a major hydrocarbon exporting country. The energy aspect of our relationship is therefore also extremely important. Both sides are committed to the Iran-Pakistan-India Gas Pipeline Project which is an important part of our much wider relationship on energy related issues.
So is the view from Iran is that the IPI is not on? FM's answer indicates that India is still interested.

vavinash wrote:
I never said US is with india. Just that Russia is on the rebound and china is a major buyer of iranian oil. They don't depend on india as much now. Rather than depend on just Iran India should spread influence with arabs also.
Why play guessing games on what Iran is intending to do? Better to focus on what India needs from Iran -- besides, the PM is going to other states in the near future according to previous posts.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by renukb »

vavinash wrote:The strategic relation only existed as long as pakis were unkils obedient poodles, SU was in tatters and china too weak an economic power to influence iran. Currently the situation is very different and the strategic relation was bound the change. All that can be done is to ensure that the relationship do not deteriorate to enemity. Iran is a terrorist supporting nation, so India does not need to go beyond its means to defend iran. If Iran wants to go with chinks and porkis, India should open up to Oman, Qatar and Yemen.
Since when did Iran supported Terrorism against India?

Again if A and B are enemies and A calls B a terrorist, then the reverse i.e, B also can call A a terrorist as well. Both should hold good right?

That's why I said, Israel and US's problem in our region are not our headache's. We don't care for their issues, let them deal with their problems and let us deal with our problems. If they want to co-operate with us, why should we make our friend turn into our enemy bcoz of their concerns? We could still do business with them (Iran) right?

And I don't want US/Israel/west to start handling affairs in our back yard. They did it since 1600 AD, and we have had enough of them. Let's talk about India and Indian interests alone here. Terrorism against India were and are sponsored by the states like USA, UK, China and perhaps Canada & KSA. And TSP is a tool or a means. Go figure out who is a terrorist for India and who is not.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by RajeshA »

renukb wrote:Terrorism against India were and are sponsored by the states like USA, UK, China and perhaps Canada & KSA. And TSP is a tool or a means. Go figure out who is a terrorist for India and who is not.
The above comments go a bit too far in advocating that TSP be absolved of all responsibility for terrorism in India. Even if one contends, that USA, UK, China, Canada and KSA have been supporting terrorism in India, which probably has some truth to it, these have done because they feel threatened by India and see India as a strategic opponent, and some of us on BRF would agree that foreign policy and geopolitics is a hard-knuckle business, and one should give it to the others harder than one takes from them, and at least match the others blow for blow. Despite such a policy, one should acknowledge that they see India first and foremost as an opponent, but not as an enemy.

TSP on the other hand is most definitely an enemy. TSP is the one who has always tried to hurt India and has also tried to get the effort bankrolled by the above mentioned countries. So whether TSP is a sponsor of terrorism or merely a tool or a means, it still needs to be destroyed. If it is a tool, then its destruction would ensure that at least none of the other countries would be able to use this tool for hurting India any more.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by renukb »

Who stopped India from protecting itself? Why have we not learnt the lessons from the past? What has stopped India from increasing their def budget, even to a modest level of 3.5 - 4% of GDP? In my opinion, Pakistan is not a problem but the terror infrastructure it built with the help of the above mentioned nations need to be destroyed. How many terrorists could be hiding in TSP? Say a half million to a million at max? Do you think they are not hiding in India as well? What are we doing about them? These dis-oriented people need to be destroyed or re-oriented, and both take time. There is no need to destroy Pakistan at all. One day, if and when this terror infrastructure is gone, TSP will become Pakistan, and may be they might one day be a part of India. Let's not heed to divide and rule policies of the US/UK combo.

The strategy adopted by the nations I listed above (US/UK/KSA/China) is simple. You listen to me or else I will unleash our pet dog on you. Again, I disagree with RajeshA here, they are not doing this with the fear of India as a strategic opponent as stated by you, but with the intension of dominating India with their religion and way of life. This doesn't make these nations any more civilized than the Talibans or the TSPakistanis. I don't care if you disagree with me.

Now to address the dog, you need not kill it, just defang it and give the right medication. How to do it? Using war, of course, you have to fight back. But this warrants that you be stronger than the dog and to counter it perhaps you have to fight its owner as well. Why are we not getting prepared for that eventuality? I don't like wars in our back yards or some one else not belonging to our region dictate us what to do within the region. If you are not capable of fighting either the dog or its owner, and go for a compromise deal, you will never be able to lead a life of your choice, bcoz the dog and its owner will begin dictating you.

Any way this is a Iran related thread, lets not focus away from the topic here. And I am not ready to call Iran a terrorist nation, just bcoz USA or Israel say so. IMO, Iran can be worked with.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by Rye »

First of all, all this ignorant dumping on Iran by the likes of Ashish Raval is completely wrong and prejudiced.

However, I see renukb defending pakistan's interest yet again for some reason -- I like Iran as an ally, but all this eagerness displayed by renukb and others to "solve ISI" and taking India back to 1997 is disturbing. The democrats will change the game from the Bush playbook, and it will not be in India's interest.
Who stopped India from protecting itself? Why have we not learnt the lessons from the past? What has stopped India from increasing their def budget, even to a modest level of 3.5 - 4% of GDP? In my opinion, Pakistan is not a problem but the terror infrastructure it built with the help of the above mentioned nations need to be destroyed.
Only partly correct -- you leave behind the people who build these terror camps and they can rebuild all the ones they destroyed. Secondly, how do you know when ALL terror assets have been dismantled -- because unless there is that guarantee, all of these "destroying terror camps" is just a temporary setback for terrorist groups. They will regroup again when the public attention is distracted elsewhere.
How many terrorists could be hiding in TSP? Say a half million to a million at max? Do you think they are not hiding in India as well?
Who is sustaining them? What is this horsesh1t you are trying to spread here? That Pakistan can be pulled back from terror? Why would they start doing that now when they have not for the past 60 years? Because you say so? :roll:
What are we doing about them? These dis-oriented people need to be destroyed or re-oriented, and both take time. There is no need to destroy Pakistan at all.
What kind of imbecile would pretend that destroying all the symptoms of terrorism (Terror camps etc.) will result in a change in the motivation for creating the terror camps in the first place? What is this snake oil you are hawking around these parts?
One day, if and when this terror infrastructure is gone, TSP will become Pakistan, and may be they might one day be a part of India. Let's not heed to divide and rule policies of the US/UK combo.
Around the same time world hunger and poverty will be solved surely.
Again, I disagree with RajeshA here, they are not doing this with the fear of India as a strategic opponent as stated by you, but with the intension of dominating India with their religion and way of life. This doesn't make these nations any more civilized than the Talibans or the TSPakistanis. I don't care if you disagree with me.
I agree with you. We should start by enrolling all those people in compulsory moral science courses -- civilized people like you should write the syllabus.
Now to address the dog, you need not kill it, just defang it and give the right medication. How to do it? Using war, of course, you have to fight back. But this warrants that you be stronger than the dog and to counter it perhaps you have to fight its owner as well. Why are we not getting prepared for that eventuality?
Or you can have the dog's rabid family kill the dog and then go after the dog's owner, while watching all the action from a distance.
Any way this is a Iran related thread, lets not focus away from the topic here. And I am not ready to call Iran a terrorist nation, just bcoz USA or Israel say so. IMO, Iran can be worked with.
And pakistan in its current form CANNOT be worked with...a point that just does not seem to sink into some people.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by RajeshA »

I do agree, that we need not make India's Iran policy subservient to the whims and interests of USA and Israel.

That said, I also fail to see, why Indians think the sovereignty and integrity of Islamic Republic of Pakistan is so sacred. Just because one speaks in favor of dismantling TSP, does not necessarily mean, that one is stumping for some sort of elimination of the peoples living in TSP or that one wishes ill of the people there. They would continue to be organized in smaller states of Sindh, Seraikistan, Pakjab, Hindkoland, Baluchistan, Pakhtoonkhwa, etc. Being denuclearized, de-ideologized, disarmed and smaller, these states can be more easily persuaded by India to change their policy on terrorism and dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism.

There is no stopping India from continuing to work with the future governments and people of these mini-states.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by ashish raval »

Rye wrote:First of all, all this ignorant dumping on Iran by the likes of Ashish Raval is completely wrong and prejudiced.
How do you define ignorance Rye. I have closely known not one, two but dozens of Iranians who are top notch scientists and achievers in their field in west most of whom are set to return back to their country assuming role in scientific establishments as they are mosly sponsored research candidates and yes my opinions comes from prolonged discussions with them over umpteen dinner parties that we had together and do not consider it as ignorance unless I am given wrong information on the issues in Iran or their history.

Do one thing Rye, go and ask any Iranian anywhere you know them that what do they know about India or Indian culture, you will get your answer.
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Re: Iran News and Discussions - 11 December 2007

Post by RajeshA »

Ashish Raval Ji,

Iranians (Persians) have a long history of dominance in Central Asia and a blooming culture, and they are extremely proud of that. They have built empires and military expansionism and war have been instrumental in their sense of greatness. Why should they be ashamed of their tradition and history!

Iranian culture and language have had much influence though Indian Muslims on Indian culture as well. That is a fact, and we are culturally richer because of the exchange. One should also point out that Iranian culture was absorbed into India mostly indirectly through the Central Asian Turks or the Afghans.

There is no reason, why India should grudge Iranian greatness, even if it is at India's expense. But Iranians also respect military strength, and as India becomes the dominant military power in IOR and economically developed, Iran too would acknowledge India's greatness.

However all this historical greatness business is not really very relevant to a strategic relationship and common national interests in IOR, Central Asia, Energy, Trade, etc. Also a relationship, which is based on give and take, trust and verification, mutual dependence, etc. is much more immune to purported ethnic characteristics like back stabbing, etc.
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