Afghanistan News & Discussion

[sum]

Shyamji,
DO you keep getting thses "tit-bits" through open source papers/magazines or from your "cabinet secretariat" sources?
I would be very happy if it is the latter since it would mean that our agencies are well and alive(given the mud slinging and terrible portrayal of their morale etc in recent reports).

[shyamd]

Most are open source, but some from my own sources.

[shyamd]

{Deleted per postor's and other admins' request. Thx.}

[Philip]

India would do well to re-engage with our old traditional Afghan friends,if not already done.The Northern Alliance is one method of countering the Taliban,not appasement of it as being advised by defeatist western generals.

Here is how the US is harvesting another few thousand suicide bombers and Taliban recruits in Afghanistan! Wonderful how the US loves to bomb Afghan wedding parties.Do they think that by killing the newlyweds they will reduce Afghan/Taliban birth rates?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 092346.ece

Botched US bombing kills 40 at Afghan wedding party
Villagers search through the destroyed building where the US raid took place

Tom Coghlan in Kabul
US troops fighting off a Taleban ambush bombed a wedding party in southern Afghanistan and killed about 40 civilians, mainly women and children, local people and government officials said yesterday.

American officials confirmed last night that an incident was under investigation by the US military and the Afghan Government. Colonel Greg Julian, a US army spokesman, told The Times: “We are taking this very seriously. We are extremely sorry if there have been civilian casualties sustained during this operation. It is the worst possible outcome if civilians are harmed as a result of our trying to defend them.”

He confirmed that US forces had been operating in the Shah Wali Kot area when the alleged incident took place on Monday afternoon, and that airstrikes were called in. Injured people arrived in Kandahar overnight on Monday and hospital officials said that 16 men and dozens of women had been admitted.

Reports from Kandahar suggested that there was a high proportion of women casualties because the wedding was segregated, in accordance with local custom, and airstrikes hit the women’s half. A local reporter who reached the scene said that ten women, four men and 23 children were killed. Some estimates of the dead from local people were much higher.

Civilians who accompanied the wounded to Kandahar city said that US forces had been moving through the mountainous area when their convoy was ambushed. During several hours of fighting American troops and aircraft attacked a mudwalled castle, a common structure in rural Kandahar, where the wedding was taking place. “Taleban attacked the troops. Then the troops bombed our village and killed scores of people. There are still people under rubble,” said Shah Mohammad, who was accompanying the injured to hospital.

Another man in the hospital, Abdul Zahir, 24, said he was the brother of the bride. She was seriously wounded in the attack. He said that the bombing lasted for five hours after the battle broke out. Mr Zahir sat next to a bed containing his three cousins, Noor Ahmad, Hazrat Sadiq and Mohammad Rafiq, aged between 3 and 5, all of whom were wounded in the attack. He said that eight family members died and 14 were injured.

“We are aware that civilians have died in airstrikes conducted by foreign forces in Shah Wali Kot, but at this time we don’t know how many,” Ahmad Wali Karzai, the head of the provincial council in Kandahar and brother of the Afghan President, said.

At a press conference to honour the election of Barack Obama yesterday, President Karzai made a pointed call to curtail the use of bombing by Western forces. “We cannot win the fight against terrorism with airstrikes,” he said. “This is my first demand of the new President of the United States: to put an end to civilian casualties.”

The Taleban issued a press release saying that one of their fighters was killed and two wounded in the fighting. The group claimed to have killed 13 American soldiers and destroyed an armoured vehicle.

Related Links
Osama bin Laden doesn't exist?
Film backs villagers' claims of carnage
89 Afghan civilians die in coalition airstrike

[Philip]

Hilarious!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -Iran.html

Salsa dancing spy Daniel James guilty of spying for Iran

An army translator and salsa dance teacher who worked for the head of Nato forces in Afghanistan has been found guilty of spying for Iran.

By Duncan Gardham, Security Correspondent
Last Updated: 12:57AM GMT 06 Nov 2008

Army translator Daniel James pictured in Afghanistan Photo: REUTERS

Cpl Daniel James who worked for General David Richards, recently appointed as the head of the British Army, was found guilty of emailing details of troop movements to a military attaché in the Iranian embassy in Kabul.

James, 45, denied the charge, under the Official Secrets Act, claiming he was trying to improve relations with Iran and was protecting the general with voodoo spells. The jury is still deliberating on two further charges, also denied by James, alleging that he leaked two sensitive situation reports.

James, an Iranian by birth who had changed his name from Esmail Mohammed Beigi Gamasai, sent a series of "coded" emails between November 2 and December 18 2006.

One email told Colonel Mohammed Hossein Heydari that forces were setting up a camp on the Iran-Iraq border near al-Amara and added: "Take care of that side."

It finished by adding: "Any other work that you may have, I am at your service" and was signed "Esmail the interpreter."

On December 16, during a visit to Britain to take some language exams, Cpl James emailed Col Heydari promising him "a very good present."

The corporal flew to Amsterdam for the night and Col Heydari emailed back the next day saying: "Thank you for your present."

He was arrested later the same day at RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire where he was waiting for a flight back to Kabul.

The corporal, who has worked as a salsa dance teacher, casino croupier and nightclub bouncer, was described as a "Walter Mitty" character who had "grandiose ideas about himself and his own self-importance."

Cpl James had "no settled civilian employment and had an uncertain financial future," said Mark Dennis QC, prosecuting.

James, 45, was born in Tehran, the capital of Iran, and came to Britain in his early teens changing his name by deed poll in 1997.

He served with the Territorial Army for 18 years and was attached to the 30th battalion, Princess of Wales Royal Regiment, based near his home in Brighton, West Sussex.

He was called up for duty in Afghanistan in March 2006 and quickly put to work as an interpreter using his knowledge of Farsi, his native tongue, and Dari, an Afghan dialect.

He was said to have achieved a "very trusted and sensitive position" which included daily work for Gen Richards as well meeting high-ranking ISAF officers and members of the Afghan government.

[Philip]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... nders.html

Defence minister accused of undermining British military commanders
Quentin Davies, the defence minister, has been accused of undermining British military commanders in the field by a senior military figure.

By James Kirkup, Political Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:36AM GMT 07 Nov 2008

Mr Davies has faced intense criticism for suggesting that SAS commanders in Afghanistan had chosen the "wrong vehicles" for operations, leading to British casualties.

The Daily Telegraph revealed last week that Major Sebastian Morley, an SAS commander in Afghanistan, has resigned over the vehicles available to his troops.

Three of Maj Morley's men were killed in a lightly-armoured Snatch Landrover earlier this year.

The vehicles, designed for policing riots in Northern Ireland, provide little protection against roadside bombs and other explosive devices, but are widely used in Afghanistan.

In the House of Lords on Thursday, Mr Davies came under attack from Viscount Slim, a former SAS officer and son of the World War II general Bill Slim.

Viscount Slim, a crossbench peer, said that ministers have failed to support or equip British troops and their commanders properly.

He said: "At this time what they need is not criticism. They need support, encouragement and being given the right kit for the right job. This is not happening."

In a reference to Mr Davies, he asked: "Is it not wrong that those who have no battle experience and have never had their hair parted by a bullet to make assumptions about what happens in combat and in that way make criticisms and show distrust to our commanders in the field, who are the ones that are doing the fighting?"

Baroness Taylor, the defence minister in the Lords, insisted that Mr Davies had not meant to insult Maj Morley or his comrades.

She said: "The minister was in no way attempting to apportion blame."

The minister also insisted that British troops in Afghanistan are properly supplied.

She was challenged by Lord Astor, the Tory defence spokesman in the Lords , who asked her to promise that "that no commander in Afghanistan will again be forced to use Snatch for any operation beyond base perimeter security."

She said: "Ministers provide a wide range of vehicles for commanders in the field.

"Ministers have been told by operational commanders that they wish to retain Snatch Landrovers for certain purposes."

"Senior operational commanders consider the Snatch vehicle to be mission critical."

[kidoman]

India sanctions funds for new parliament in Kabul
NEW DELHI: India on Thursday sanctioned additional funds for the construction of a new parliament building in Kabul, calling it a visible symbol of India’s contribution in strengthening and rebuilding democracy in Afghanistan.

Hoping that this will generate goodwill for India in Afghanistan, a spokesman said that the union cabinet also approved construction of an Indian chancery complex in Kabul that will provide a secure and functional base for India’s diplomatic functions, in the context of an attack on its High Commission office in July.

The revised estimate approved for both the projects in Kabul is to the tune of Rs 9.5 billion.

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had laid the foundation stone of the proposed parliament building in August 2005 during his visit to Afghanistan.

link

[RajeshA]

Phillip,

FYI, the Iranians are really into Salsa dancing. My Salsa teacher was an Iranian and through him I got to know dozens of Iranians who could dance Salsa. Speaking Spanish is another matter. They don't bother with that.

[Rye]

Well said, narayanan sar, those arbitrary rumours being spread by shyamd about RAW in afghanisthan need to be deleted -- they are complete fabrications.

[RajeshA]

narayanan ji,

Actually the argument with "my sources have told me XYZ" is foolproof. There are many reasons why a source was willing to share highly secret information with the writer.

a. The writer is sexually so attractive, that looking the other way would have been impossible for the source. One kiss per secret policy. For every 10th secret one gets a bonus.
b. The writer has some financiers and always has some loose change, and the source needed some moolah for medicines for his/her very very very sick mother.
c. The source just wanted to show off, "watt a grate jaab he/she has".
d. The source has a very small hard drive, and needs to save the information on external hard drives.
e. The source tends to talk in sleep.
f. The writer has access to the source's laptop.

etc., etc....

The only counter-argument that works, is that one counters, that one's own source has revealed that your source is a prick and a habitual liar.

However I think, giving credence to rumors of RAW supporting various Taliban factions, be they be against TSP, etc from Afghanistan is a self-goal.

[enqyoob]

No, I have no intention of attacking the postor, I just state why I strongly disagree with his post, and I would appreciate his clarifying his position. Is there some other Case that I missed?

[RajeshA]

None that I know of.

[shyamd]

Narayananji, Clearly its case 2. If you want it deleted, please speak to Ramanaji, he can clarify my position best.

[ramana]

Shyamd, Please delete and dont post future refs as forum is not ready being in an Aristotleian frame of mind. No need for posting as you can see it leads to contention. Earlier I was hoping we can benefit but if it leads to constant queries and innuendoes then no point of it. You have my e-mail.

Thanks for the past posts.

ramana

[enqyoob]

I certainly hope that there continue to be "constant queries" about posts that indicate something serious, and contention about stated positions. Houristan knows that there is far too little of even elementary common-sense checks on the reporting in the Indian Media, so at least here we need to be asking questions. Absolutely no offence intended, and I very much appreciate participation here by people who "know". But by the same token, this is an open forum that provides some semblance of anonymity, with all the opportunities and responsibilities that come with that.

[RajeshA]

Just wanted to clarify what I posted above. It was an argument in general. Not directed at any poster.

[ramana]

No problem you wont get any takleef form Shaymd nor any updates.

[sum]

No problem you wont get any takleef form Shaymd nor any updates.

Thats too bad...I did enjoy those tit-bits of his( true or not).

[ramana]

There is message and messenger. So while one authenticates the messenger the message gets lost and causes flutter. So in keeping with our traditions better to not hear any messages.

[shyamd]

You want open source articles for everything I say, here:
I posted:

Petraeus is reportedly thinking about deploying Iraq style Sunni militia to clean out the taleb in Pukiland and Afghanistan.

on 23rd october
Petraeus: Afghan tribes needed to fight militants

6th November
BAGRAM AIR BASE, Afghanistan (AP) — Afghan tribes are needed as crucial battlefield allies against the Taliban and other extremists in the same way local militias rose up to oppose insurgents in Iraq, the new military overseer of America's two wars said Thursday.

The tactic has long been endorsed by Gen. David Petraeus — the former top U.S. commander in Iraq whose outreach to Sunni sheiks helped oust al-Qaida-inspired militants from key areas and sharply decreased attacks.

But his latest comments — on his first trip to Afghanistan since taking charge of U.S. Central Command last week — appeared aimed at pressing the Afghan leadership to recognize the need for tribal militia allies at a time when violence in Afghanistan is at its highest levels since 2001.

It also reflects Washington's expected shift in military focus from Iraq to Afghanistan and the neighboring tribal areas in Pakistan, which President-elect Barack Obama has described as the main showdown against the resurgent al-Qaida, Taliban and other militants.

"This is a country in which support of the tribes, of the local communities, for the overall effort is essential," Petraeus told The Associated Press at the massive Bagram Air Base north of Kabul. He added that Afghanistan has not had "a tradition of central government extending into the far reaches of its provinces and its districts."

Petraeus declined to discuss details of efforts — spearheaded publicly by President Hamid Karzai's government — to bring Afghan militiamen into the battle alongside Afghan forces, U.S. soldiers and other NATO-led troops.

Yet Afghanistan poses even more potential complications than the so-called Awakening Council movement in Iraq.

More than 150 major tribes range across the eastern and southern border lands with Pakistan — where the majority of the extremist attacks occur — and any military alliances with selected groups risk stirring rivalries and internal power struggles in regions outside central government control.

The tribes in the areas are almost exclusively Pashtun, the majority group in Afghanistan. Perceptions of special favors to already powerful Pashtun tribes — including pay and possible weapons supplies — could bring backlash from other ethnic groups with their own militiamen and warlords that clashed in brutal civil wars in the 1990s.

In Iraq, the equation was different: the Awakening groups came mostly from the minority Sunnis who lost their privileged status with Saddam Hussein's fall. Now, the Shiite-led Iraqi government is under pressure from Washington to incorporate the militias into the security forces.

The Pentagon did not provide weapons directly to Awakening allies in Iraq. But Petraeus left open the possibility that Karzai could offer arms in exchange for tribal alliances.

"We will certainly support what President Karzai decides to adopt," said Petraeus. "We traditionally have not armed tribes ... But again, we have to see how that evolves here and see what kinds of initiatives and structures might be looked at."

Antonio Giustozzi, an Afghanistan expert at the London School of Economics, said the tribal groups are needed to cover the shortage of regular forces for the entire country: 67,000 Afghan soldiers, about 78,000 police and more than 60,000 U.S. and other foreign troops.

But he questioned whether the tribal chiefs would have the will to fight the Taliban as it strengthens and rebuilds its network in the border regions.

"The assumption is that there are many community leaders who are anxious to fight the Taliban, although I suspect that may no longer be the case in most areas," said Giustozzi. "In the end, I believe it will boil down to bribing people into joining militias. How military effective these are going to be remains to be seen."

Across the border in Pakistan, the government in Islamabad has already started arming tribal militias for roles as front line forces against al-Qaida and Taliban safe havens.

And — like in Iraq — the payback from extremists can be deadly. Dozens of government-allied tribesmen have been killed in recent attacks in Pakistan.

The message is clear to any Afghan tribal leader weighing offers to join Kabul's fight. A senior foreign diplomat in Kabul, who has long experience in tribal relations, said there is a risk the effort could backfire if tribes are seen as battling on behalf of foreign troops.

The diplomat spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to speak publicly on internal Afghan affairs.

Gen. David McKiernan, the top U.S. general in Afghanistan, said in a recent interview with the AP that he is "absolutely ready" to reach out to tribes as an auxiliary force. He noted, however, that any deals would have to be in "connection with the Afghan government."

In Afghanistan, U.S. and other foreign troops use local militiamen for security at some bases. But the efforts so far have concentrated on training the country's fledgling security forces.

In the interview, Petraeus said the war in Afghanistan is closely intertwined with the fight in Pakistan, and they need to be tackled together.

But escalating U.S. missile strikes in Pakistan's tribal region — at least 17 since late summer — have strained Islamabad's ties with Washington despite some apparent successes against extremists.

Petraeus said recent U.S. missiles have killed three of the top 20 extremist leaders in Pakistan's border zone. He did not identify the leaders killed, but described the attacks as "hugely important."

On Tuesday, Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani warned that the next U.S. president must halt the attacks. The prime minister said the U.S. should share intelligence with his country's military to allow Pakistan to go after the militants.

Washington says Pakistan's tribal areas harbor many of al-Qaida's leaders, including Osama bin Laden.

[enqyoob]

Look, I don't understand all the deep politics and connections and all that, but there are two things I do want to respond to here. One is that ramanaji needs to take a deep breath, then re-read his posts, and delete them when he sees sense. For example:

There is message and messenger. So while one authenticates the messenger the message gets lost and causes flutter. So in keeping with our traditions better to not hear any messages.

That is quite unnecessary. There was something very very specific about the "message" that ppl here said: "provide open source" because otherwise it is a rumor that benefits only our enemies (which I am told I don't have to worry whether my enemies are the same as the enemies of everyone here).

The next is shyamd's post above:

You want open source articles for everything I say, here:
I posted:

I am sure I can glimpse what you are trying to say here, but there is another way of getting that "message" across to ppl here.

Yes, this is an open forum. Kindergartners like me can tell off Kings.

May I gather that India fully supports the US/NATO and Gen. Petraeus in trying to bring peace, security and prosperity to the Afghan people, and in enabling the Afghan people to defend themselves against terrorist aggression? Also, that Indian agencies are working with General Petraeus to help identify and vet reliable and effective leaders of the Afghan people, who also support President-Elect Obama's and Prime Minister Singh's 21st Century Vision for Peace, Security and Prosperity? If so, we can all be

And so can the Predator operators....

[ramana]

CFR publication Oct, 2008

Indo Afghan Relations

[Rye]

BTW, No offense meant to shyamd -- I like reading his updates, but as others have explained, we need to avoid self-goals on here. Any rumours about RAW in afghanisthan will take a life of their own, given that Obama and his people are all out to help pakistan stop being nervous about Indian presence in afghanisthan....I think people can draw their own conclusions based on today's reality.

[enqyoob]

In fact I can state from 403% Usually Reliable Sources hu prefer to remain anonymous, that Mohterma BB, when she visited Dilli, left behind a little green book, giving the links between ISI Generals and Taliban terrorist leaders, as well as a list of all the properties owned by said Generals in FATA, NWFP etc.
And I hear that the Americans very much want this, and have been negotiating for it with RAW.
"Predator Target Coordinates" IOW.

I hear that Pepto Bismol stock is rising today in Krachi Stock Exchange, the only bright spot in a uniformly dark scene.

[Gerard]

Bush study favors bigger Afghan army

[shyamd]

BTW, No offense meant to shyamd -- I like reading his updates, but as others have explained, we need to avoid self-goals on here. Any rumours about RAW in afghanisthan will take a life of their own, given that Obama and his people are all out to help pakistan stop being nervous about Indian presence in afghanisthan....I think people can draw their own conclusions based on today's reality.

Thanks Rye. Yes I do understand that the message is essentially politcally sensitive, whether true or not. Will keep that in mind when I do post in future.

[Stan_Savljevic]

The Union Cabinet gave its approval for construction of combined project of Afghanistan’s Parliament Building and Indian Chancery complex in Kabul, at a revised estimated cost of Rs 9.5 billion. The construction of Parliament building will be a visible symbol of India’s contribution to strengthening and rebuilding democracy in Afghanistan. It will also generate goodwill for India in Afghanistan. The construction of the Chancery complex will provide a secure and functional base for Indian diplomatic functions in Kabul, Afghanistan. The Prime Minister during his visit to Afghanistan in August 2005 laid the foundation stone for the proposed Parliament building.

http://thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=145443

[enqyoob]

This is the problem
The Einsteins advising the GOTUS are getting so desperate that they think appeasing the Pakis by bullying India to give them Kashmir is the only way to get out of Afghanistan. You have to admire the Pakis - broke, begging, depending on baksheesh to eat every day, yet holding the US and NATO at gun-point and with high hopes of heading the Khilafat again.

U.S. review likely to say Afghanistan situation 'dire'

* Story Highlights
* Source: 24 government agencies say Afghanistan in "dire situation"
* Boost in soldiers likely couldn't arrive by time of critical election, renewed fighting
* Review focusing on policy decisions, troops in Afghanistan
* Similar review in 2007 helped change the course in Iraq

By Peter Bergen
CNN National Security Analyst

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A classified review of U.S. policy in Afghanistan is likely to judge that the United States is losing ground there, according to a government official involved with preparing the review.

The review, under way since September 20 and led by Lt. Gen. Douglas E. Lute, the senior National Security Council official responsible for Afghanistan and Iraq, has yet to reach any definitive conclusions. But according to one of the participants in the review there was no disagreement among the 24 government agencies that participated that Afghanistan is in a "dire situation."

The official involved in preparing the review said participants at a recent private meeting discussed developments in Afghanistan including:

• Violence is up 543 percent in the last five years,

• Drug cultivation is up 100 percent since 2003, and

• Afghan support for international forces in Afghanistan is down by 33 percent in the past few months.

Those statistics came from polling data collected for the U.S. government, the official said.

The review also is likely to conclude that the United States does not have sufficient forces for an Iraq-style "surge" in Afghanistan. While President-elect Barack Obama has talked about the necessity of sending a substantial force to Afghanistan, the review's initial assessment suggests, according to the official, that the largest number of additional forces that could be mustered there in the next few months is several thousand.

According to a U.S. official familiar with troop deployments, even if Obama pulled substantial numbers of American soldiers out of Iraq the day he comes into office on January 20, 2009, and redeployed them immediately to Afghanistan, they wouldn't arrive there until June or July 2009 because of the complicated logistics of redeploying.

That would be too late, because the spring will bring new Afghan fighting after a winter lull. Those redeployed soldiers would not arrive there in time for renewed fighting, that official said.

Also, those soldiers would not arrive in time to provide much-needed security in the run-up for the presidential election that is scheduled for August 2009, a critical moment for Afghanistan as President Hamid Karzai's five-year term ends.

Gen. David Petraeus, who took over last week as head of U.S. Central Command, is overseeing his own review across the 20 countries that make up the command's area of operations in the Middle East and Asia.

A similar review he oversaw in 2007 helped to change the course of U.S. policy in Iraq. The new review is being led by Col. H.R. McMaster, an expert on counterinsurgency, who also led Petraeus' Iraq policy review.

The new Central Command analysis, conducted by dozens of experts from across the government, focuses in particular on likely hot spots for the next administration, including Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran, according to three U.S. officials familiar with the review.

The Petraeus review will be completed in February 2009.

[enqyoob]

I understand that postor shyamd was very upset and had his tender feelings hurt by my statement:

Yes, this is an open forum. Kindergartners like me can tell off Kings.

No offence intended, and I am in fact a bit surprised that anyone old enough to post here would take offence at that. Also, nowhere in this thread have I "acted like an admin" or whatever it is that was used in the case filed. To make THAT , and that too to NOT make it right here in public, but do it sneakily using "inside influence", was rather petty, if I may say so with all due respect.

That of course, loosens my typing fingers where I keep my brains...

I DO believe, very strongly, that "freedom of speech" ends where responsibility begins, on a forum where I can post. One has to be pretty careful posting rumors about intelligence / covert operations, especially. Innocents can get tortured and killed if the rumor is wrong, and people on our side may get tortured and killed if the rumor is right. So when such rumors are posted, many other forumites will react, well.. with less than enthusiasm. I am among them, I just wasn't quick enough to do so in this case b4 others did.

A while back, I posted something to the effect that there were Indians already at some airbase in a certain country - It was an idle post, just kidding Pakis, but I got hammered by certain stupid ppl hu shall remain unnamed, and the post was promptly deleted - thereby proving beyond doubt to any Pakis that my idle post was 500% true.

Blindly citing rumors from, say, western "intelligence forums" has been shown enough times in the past, to be a great way to spread misinformation. I should know - I've used stuff from there against pakis enough times, and I've seen stuff I've written, picked up and posted there as well.
(in those cases, 500% accurate, of course!)

[shyamd]

This is what I said to the admin:

I haven't suggested anywhere on the forum, that he as an admin can't tell off senior members. Where did he get this from?

---------------
That was petty? The point is, I didn't take offence to it, I didn't know where you got that from. Making an accusation that has no basis is a bit petty if you ask me.

Make it sneakily? WTF?? I said: I am not going to say anything to him on the thread, for risk of starting a bigger war of words, but please ask him to delete his last post as it has no relevance to the topic.

The comment I made to the mod was pretty clear and my intention was that you should know about it, but I'd rather not get into arguements like this is going to end up.

Mod replied: While I admit his last post could have been avoided, I assure you it's not personal. more directed against any further such comments.

If that is what you call going behind my back, then we need to get our definitions right of petty and going behind peoples back. lol
---------

Now getting to your second point. I agree, the post I made should be deleted. I am not arguing out of it or whatever, it is a politcally sensitive subject. Period.

[enqyoob]

Like I said, no offence was intended, but you have made my point quite nicely, thank you.
Not everyone understands the meaning of the word "petty".

A lot of people have got mad at me, and many more will. I respect those who tell me that honestly. I DON'T respect those who go behind my back

Q.E.D.

[RajeshA]

We need to call a jirga here! Afghanistan has always been a dangerous country!

[Avinash R]

Indian biscuits for Afghan schoolchildren
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/00 ... 081307.htm

November 8, 2008
United Nations (IANS): The World Food Programme of the UN has welcomed India's decision to donate $12 million for distribution of biscuits to 1.2 million schoolchildren in Afghanistan, to be transported through Pakistan.

The fortified biscuits, to be produced in India, will be shipped to Afghanistan through Pakistan, Michele Montas, spokesperson for UN Secretary General, told reporters at the UN headquarters in New York Friday.

"This marks a major transportation breakthrough, opening a new route for humanitarian aid from India to Afghanistan," Montas said.

It is one of the rare occasions when Pakistan has allowed its territory for transportation of Indian relief material to Afghanistan.


WFP receives $12 million to feed school children in Afghanistan
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db9 ... enDocument

The United Nations food agency has welcomed a contribution of $12 million from the government of India to feed school children in Afghanistan.

The World Food Programme says the money will be used to buy fortified biscuits made from Indian wheat.

WFP spokesperson Emilia Casella says biscuits will be transported through Pakistan, marking a major transportation breakthrough for humanitarian assistance from India to Afghanistan.

"And thanks to this generous donation from India, more than one and a half million school children in Afghanistan will be receiving these fortified biscuits at school. We already provide more than two million children with food assistance in schools and also take home rations for more than half a million girls in Afghan schools."

The World Food Programme says it has a shortfall of $17 million for its feeding programme over the next six months in Afghanistan.

Diane Bailey, United Nations.


UN appreciates India's USD 12 million contribution to Afghan
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/00 ... 081484.htm
November 8, 2008

New York (PTI): The UN World Food Programme (WFP) has welcomed a USD 12 million contribution from New Delhi that will be used to provide fortified biscuits made from Indian wheat for 1.2 million school children in Afghanistan.

"Thanks to this generous donation from India, more than one and a half million school children in Afghanistan will be receiving these fortified biscuits at school. We already provide more than two million children with food assistance in schools and also take rations for more than a million girls in Afghan schools," Emilia Casella WFP spokesperson said.

The biscuits, which were produced in India, will be shipped to Afghanistan through Pakistan. This marks a major transportation breakthrough, opening a new route for humanitarian aid from India to Afghanistan, the food agency said.

[enqyoob]

I wonder, can't they set up routes through the northern "Stans" or through Iran? Well, biscuits for children may be OK as long as the Pakis don't put rat poison in them.

[Vivek_A]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... id=6204308

US Official: Taliban Sought Wedding Party Deaths
US official: Tailban hoped to cause deaths at wedding party, held villagers
By JASON STRAZIUSO
The Associated Press

KABUL, Afghanistan

Taliban fighters held a wedding party captive and fired on U.S. forces in an attack designed to draw U.S. airstrikes on civilians and stoke anti-American sentiment, a U.S. official said Friday citing "firsthand" reports.

The official declined to give further details of the reported events leading to the U.S. bombing Monday in the southern Afghan village Wech Baghtu, where dozens of civilians and insurgents were killed.

But such a tactic by the Taliban could mean significant complications for U.S. forces and allies — forcing them to break off attacks and pursuit of extremists in populated areas for fear that the Taliban would try to maximum civilian casualties.

Civilian deaths in Afghanistan have become an increasing point of tension between Washington and President Hamid Karzai and could be one of the first major challenges for President-elect Barack Obama.

Afghan officials said Friday a joint investigation found that 37 civilians and 26 insurgents were killed in Wech Baghtu, a village in Kandahar province, a Taliban stronghold. The U.S. official said the inquiry found that 20 civilians died. It wasn't clear why the two sides offered differing numbers.

It is not the deadliest reported civilian death toll from a U.S. attack in Afghanistan in the last three months: An Afghan commission found that an August operation by U.S. forces killed 90 civilians in the village of Azizabad. A U.S. investigation concluded 33 civilians died.

Insurgents have always used populated areas for cover in conflicts such as Iraq and Afghanistan.

But the U.S. claim Friday represents the first detailed intelligence on an apparent Taliban strategy to bring innocent lives into the crossfire, the official told The Associated Press.

"We have firsthand knowledge that we know this was a deliberate act on the part of the Taliban to draw our forces into a fight and to cause civilian casualties, knowing that a wedding party was going on," the official said. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the U.S. findings.

The official, however, did not offer additional evidence — leaving the United States open to accusations that it was trying shift blame for civilian deaths onto Taliban tactics and away from possible American battlefield mistakes.

A U.S. official last year told The Associated Press that the military believed it was possible the Taliban was deliberately trying to get U.S. forces to kill civilians, but it had no direct evidence. In past cases of civilian deaths, the U.S. has said that militants fired on its forces first from civilian areas, but no official has ever claimed the militants hoped that civilians died when the Americans returned fire.

Sarah Holewinski, the executive director of the Washington-based Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, said research by her group suggests Taliban fighters often flee after firing on U.S. forces and that retaliatory bombs hit civilians.

But she said Afghan and foreign forces cannot simply ban attacks on villages, which would turn them into Taliban safe havens.

"Does this mean waiting until the Taliban flees the scene and then doing surveillance to find them, instead of bombing the village? Maybe. Bottom line is they have to figure this out. It's the new frontier of warfare and it's not going to end anytime soon," Holewinski said.

The account by the U.S. official — possibly based on intercepted phone and radio communication between Taliban commanders and fighters, or on intelligence provided by a villager — suggests a Taliban attempt to keep civilians from fleeing the village.

First, women and children at a wedding party — which are segregated by gender in Afghanistan — were told they could not leave the area, the official said. Then Taliban gunners opened fire on a nearby U.S. convoy.

The Afghan government report also accused the Taliban of seeking shelter near the wedding party. The report said 27 civilians were wounded. It said the government paid $2,000 to families of each victim and $100 to the wounded, a standard practice. The majority of those killed were women and children.

American forces dropped eight bombs, the U.S. official said. At least one landed on the wedding party.

In a second civilian death case this week, coalition airstrikes killed seven civilians Thursday in the northwest province of Badghis. One bomb hit the house of provincial council member Mohammad Tawakil Khan. Two of his sons and one grandson died, he said.

"The Americans are hitting civilian houses all the time. They don't care, they just say it was a mistake," Khan said. "Afghan officials are only offering their condolences. After some 100 times that they have killed civilians, we have to take revenge and afterward say our condolences to them.

"For their 100 times, we should do something against them once, and after that they will understand how painful it is," Khan said.

Following Monday's battle in Wech Baghtu, President Hamid Karzai urged President-elect Barack Obama to help stop the killings of civilians, actions that undermine popular support for the Afghan government, the U.S. and NATO.

Khan said Afghan officials meet with coalition authorities and warn them to not use airstrikes because of the damage civilian deaths cause.

"They agree with our advice, but after that whenever they are in a gun battle they use airstrikes," he said.

The researcher Holewinski urged Obama to create a high-level Pentagon position dedicated to civilian casualties.

"Obviously the status quo cannot stand. Civilians are angry, President Karzai is angry, and the U.S. knows it can't afford either," she said.

[CRamS]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... id=6204308

US Official: Taliban Sought Wedding Party Deaths
US official: Tailban hoped to cause deaths at wedding party, held villagers
By JASON STRAZIUSO
The Associated Press

KABUL, Afghanistan

Taliban fighters held a wedding party captive and fired on U.S. forces in an attack designed to draw U.S. airstrikes on civilians and stoke anti-American sentiment, a U.S. official said Friday citing "firsthand" reports.

Dear Jason,

This is exactly the tactcis your 'front line allie' Pakistan uses against India in the valley of Kashmir with the terrorists it sponsors. But that doesn't stop you from accusing India of 'human rights' violations.

[Raj Malhotra]

I don't know whether RAW is operating in Afghanistan to sc**w Pakis. But the normal sentiment in BRF would be all for it. Having said this, no credible report of backbone among Indian politicians or proof by Pak Govt has appeared to show that involvement.

On another front, with Obama ready to lick Pak *ss, what will happen to such non-existent RAW presence in Pakistan??

[enqyoob]

Unfortunately, the last time the "backbone" was demonstrated was when Gujral handed over the list of Indian operatives in Pakistan to the Paki government. We are trying not to do any similar demonstrations of "backbone" between the ears.

[Gerard]

British troops 'cannot bear brunt of Barack Obama's Afghanistan surge'

[Neshant]

Taliban fighters held a wedding party captive and fired on U.S. forces in an attack designed to draw U.S. airstrikes on civilians and stoke anti-American sentiment, a U.S. official said Friday citing "firsthand" reports.

is this true or a psy-ops.

I recall that over-enthusiastic USAF pilots had bombed a wedding party in afghanistan believing the gathering below to be taliban. The last straw was when the US bombed a market place in pakistan leaving the area looking like a slaughter house with bodies strewn all over the place.