Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by shiv »

narayanan wrote:(Sigh!) While it is true that the title says both "Malegaon blasts" and "The limits of fake secularism", may I suggest that the "Malegaon blast" which has blossomed into the one-stop solution to all the Pakistani terrorist activities of the past 20 years, deserves focused attention.

At the same time, the other part of the title leads to the same old yada-yada-yada. Shiv, any suggestions? Break off and separate these into "Maharastra ATS allegations" and "Rant-Here-Against-Minorities"? Leave as it is, with the occasional informative post about the so-called terror investigations buried in a dump of the other kind of post?
I have absolutely no suggestions. The way the Malegaon blasts case is being reported reminded me of the way in which secularism in India requires proof of Hindu terrorism that is as widespread as any other to show how we, as a secular nation should shake our heads in shame because all religions are equal and all religious peoples can be misguided enough to become terrorists and that we should all hug and kiss each other and stop accusing each other so that we can together address the root causes of poverty, casteism and religious bigotry that has led to the deaths of so many people in Gujarat.

My cynical view is that if Hindu terrorism becomes really rampant, the Gujarat episode will become a "You ain't seen nothin' yet" trailer of the shape of things to come.

But my concerns go deeper than my cynicism. I believe that the Malegaon blasts probe will go no deeper than the probe into any other blasts in terms of smoking out the real sources of RDX, Ammonium Nitrate and and other important criminals in the "executive arm" of terrorism because Indian politicians are "up to here" (so to speak) in cahoots with the actual criminals.

Unsolved, unchecked terrorism in India is being handled by protecting a few, and allowing others to get hit.

The politicians get security
The influential elite such as we are go to malls and markets and cinema halls which are guarded by security with metal detectors and other security making them less desirable targets.
This leaves the aam junta in open markets and trains who become soft, non influential targets.

The relatives of the dead and injured can be "paid off" cheap and forgotten and this is what our politicians are doing. They are not really interested (or worse are now incapable) of taking on the forces that supply terror services to anybody.

As long as it was "islamic terrorism" one could assume that it was these damn trouble making Muslims and cotton-pickin Pakistan. But when every groups starts conducting successful attacks - we really need to see if the Indian polity can actually bring things under control or not. As long as the politicians themselves gain from terrorism, the terror implementing apparatus will never be arrested or stopped. This is what bothers me. We have a bunch at the top who are completely dishonest and total thieves. This is a given.

What the hell is anyone going to do if army personnel decide that this is the way to go?
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by chetak »

Manu wrote:Even if by some miracle the Man is released after finding him not guilty, his reputation is already trashed.

Link
Malegaon probe: Purohit placed under disciplinary ban
Agencies

With the Maharashtra police arresting Lt Col Shrikant Purohit in the Malegaon blast case, the Army has placed him under a Discipline-Vigilance Ban that would ensure he gets no promotions or new postings and also relieved him of current responsibilities.

The ban, a routine order which came the day the Anti-Terror Squad (ATS) took him into custody for questioning, would be enforced till the time the probe is completed and a report, either indicting Purohit or exonerating him in the case, is submitted, Army sources said in New Delhi on Tuesday.

Till the time a competent court of law acquits him in the case, the ban would continue, but Purohit would be entitled to his emoluments and also retain official accommodation till then.

Purohit, a Military Intelligence officer, was last studying a couple of foreign languages in the Army Education Corps school at Pachmarhi in Madhya Pradesh, from where he was sent into ATS custody by the Army for questioning with regard to his alleged role in the September 29 Malegaon blasts that claimed about half-a-dozen Muslim lives.

Meanwhile, as announced by Defence Minister A K Antony recently, the Army also began an internal scrutiny of Purohit’s service to determine if the record matched with unsolved incidents that may come to light and if he misused his military postings to help the main accused in the Malegaon case, sources said.

The service record was being checked to see if any arms, ammunition or explosives went missing or were stolen at a unit when he was posted there, sources added.

Also, the Army was questioning his colleagues, who served alongside him at different postings as a Liaison Unit (LU) officer, including at Nashik.

In particular, the Army was interested in finding out when and where Purohit came in contact with one of the accused retired Major Ramesh Upadhyaya, in the case, the sources said.

The Army, in a departure from tradition, was also scrutinising Purohit's leave schedules during his service and has shared the leave records with the ATS, the sources added.

ATS probing Army link with Thane blast accused

The Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) is probing the possible links of serving army officer Prasad Purohit, arrested in the Malegaon blast case, with right wing activists responsible for carrying out blasts at theatres in Navi Mumbai and Thane earlier this year.

The investigating agency is probing the link between Purohit, arrested in connection with the September 29 Malegaon blasts, and members of right wing groups of Sanathan Sanstha and Hindu Janjagruti Samiti who were responsible for carrying out blasts at three theatres.

Six persons have been chargesheeted by the ATS for their involvement in carrying out the blasts at theatres in Thane and Vashi to protest against the staging of a play which they alleged offended Hindu sentiments. The group had assembled crude bombs which where placed at both venues.

The CBI is also probing at the possibility of Purohit being involved in earlier cases like the 2006 Nanded blast. A Nashik magistrate's court yesterday permitted the transfer of one of the nine arrested in the Malegaon blast case, Rakesh Dhawade, to the Aurangabad ATS following evidence being found of his involvement in the Nanded and 2004 Jalna blast.

The ATS has also sought permission to interrogate a leader from Uttar Pradesh in connection with the Malegaon blast case and was been granted permission by the Nasik court.

The name of the leader was not disclosed and the permission of the court had been taken to ensure the co-operation of the government machinery there, ATS officials said.

"Even if by some miracle the Man is released after finding him not guilty, his reputation is already trashed."



The Army will not take too kindly to its reputation being trashed and dragged through the muck.
From here on, all unproven allegations and innuendos notwithstanding, every action of the Army will be seen through tinted glasses, corrosively debated and dissected by the jehadi lot. The morale of the soldiers is definitely going to take a hit especially at the lower end where they will easily be swayed by motivated and slanted press reportage.
Anyone notice how its only the "Hindu seculars" who are going hammer and tongs at the Hindus and the Army in all the TV talk shows. The regular muslims featured ad nauseum on these talk shows, like javed, Shabana et al are very quiet. The urdu press as usual is hyper active and is going ballistic.
The muslim "seculars" are waiting for the damage to be done by their virulent Hindu counterparts before they move in for the kill. They are marshaling their forces and keeping the powder dry.
Col Purohit is going to be very very dead, figuratively speaking, forget his personal reputation.
He is for sure headed for the clink, dishonorably discharged, deprived of his pension and all other benefits, drawn and quartered, if only to make an example of him and show that justice is actually being done.
No action will be taken by any other agency. Only the Army will act and that too solely on its own initiative. This episode has very wide ramifications for them. Its rumoured that some IAS babus are also stirring the pot, trying to schutp the Army when they are down.
Remember the tehelka affair?
Its the fake secular Hindu b******s who are doing all the public damage. Without an iota of doubt, money is what motivates this scum. Some coordinated and concerted action is urgently required to stop these guys before things get out of hand.
Any ideas?
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by RamaY »

chetak wrote:The Army will not take too kindly to its reputation being trashed and dragged through the muck.
From here on, all unproven allegations and innuendos notwithstanding, every action of the Army will be seen through tinted glasses, corrosively debated and dissected by the jehadi lot. The morale of the soldiers is definitely going to take a hit especially at the lower end where they will easily be swayed by motivated and slanted press reportage.
Anyone notice how its only the "Hindu seculars" who are going hammer and tongs at the Hindus and the Army in all the TV talk shows. The regular muslims featured ad nauseum on these talk shows, like javed, Shabana et al are very quiet. The urdu press as usual is hyper active and is going ballistic.
The muslim "seculars" are waiting for the damage to be done by their virulent Hindu counterparts before they move in for the kill. They are marshaling their forces and keeping the powder dry.
Col Purohit is going to be very very dead, figuratively speaking, forget his personal reputation.
He is for sure headed for the clink, dishonorably discharged, deprived of his pension and all other benefits, drawn and quartered, if only to make an example of him and show that justice is actually being done.
No action will be taken by any other agency. Only the Army will act and that too solely on its own initiative. This episode has very wide ramifications for them. Its rumoured that some IAS babus are also stirring the pot, trying to schutp the Army when they are down.
Remember the tehelka affair?
Its the fake secular Hindu b******s who are doing all the public damage. Without an iota of doubt, money is what motivates this scum. Some coordinated and concerted action is urgently required to stop these guys before things get out of hand.
Any ideas?
You mention three aspects of the current conflict:

1. Army - Unless there is a military coup kind of strategy, which is extremely remote, there is nothing IA can do in this scenario. The 6th Pay commission and all other civil/military type are preamble to this situation IMO. All IA can do for now is to lie low and take this nonsense, until time is ripe.

2. Media - your observations are very true. Unless whatever little nationalistic-media we have comes out with a coordinated counter strategy, India cannot rely upon Media to protect the national security and stop destroying the little trust public has in Public Administration. It is very sad to see the media destroying anything that represents democracy and native culture. The only way out is to organize a counter propaganda machine.

3. Politics - There is nothing BJP or RSS can do at this point in this situation. It is in thier and the nation's best interest they come work together at the gross root level to win the upcoming state and general elections. This is the only way out for them and for the country.
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10205
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by sum »

Link
Did ATS lie in Nasik court?
DH News Service, Mumbai:

The claim of the Maharashtra ATS in the Nasik court that Lt Col Prasad Purohit had supplied RDX for the Samjhauta Express blasts of 2007 has raised eyebrows, as it runs counter to the findings so far and the governments statement to Pakistan.

On February 18, 2007, around midnight, bombs went off inside two compartments of the train packed with passengers returning to Pakistan. The blasts occurred when the train had just passed Diwana station near Panipat.

In the ensuing fire, 68 passengers were killed and dozens were hurt. Though the victims were mostly Pakistani passengers, they also included some Indians going to Pakistan and Indian guards on security duty.
Investigations into the incident have so far revealed the use of a cocktail of ammonium nitrate, kerosene and sulphur to set off the explosions on the train. Incidentally, neither the Haryana railway police nor any other investigating agency ever referred to the use of RDX in the blasts.

A probe conducted by the commissioner of railway safety officially determined that the explosions on the Samjhauta Express had been caused by bombs located in the upper compartments in coaches GS 03431 and GS 14857.

The probe also showed that the train had slowed down to a speed of 20 km/hour just before it was going to enter Diwana station.

The probe corroborated eyewitness accounts that the suspects had got off the train before the explosions. The Haryana police had arrested two persons from Indore who allegedly sold the suitcases used in the blasts. It is suspected that the four suitcases packed with IEDs were placed inside the train before it left Delhi.

While two of the bombs went off in the general compartment, another was defused later, while a fourth was thrown on the tracks by a passenger, a Pakistani national.

In the undetonated suitcase was found a digital timer encased in transparent plastic which was packed alongside a dozen plastic bottles containing fuel and chemicals. However, there was no reference to the use of RDX in any of the probe reports.

Even the report sent by India’s national security adviser to his Pakistani counterpart did not mention the use of RDX.

Threat call to ATS counsel

Nashik, pti: Ajay Misarm, special counsel for the Maharashtra Anti-Terrorist Squad probing the Malegaon blast case, on Saturday alleged he had received a threatening call.
The call was made from a landline number in Nashik to Misarm’s mobile phone, and the anonymous caller threatened him, ATS chief Hemant Karkare and investigating officers in the case, Misar told reporters here.
This article should confirm the political games being playes once a scape-goat has been zeroed in on....

I wont be surprised if they soon find the Col's hand in the Babri demolition, parliament attack and Godhra train burning also....try to pin as many incidents on him as possible since he is anyways locked away and cannot fight back.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by shiv »

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2008

MUSLIM ANGER VS HINDU ANGER

INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM MONITOR---PAPER NO.466

B.RAMAN

The manner of the current investigation by the Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) of the Mumbai Police into an explosion at Malegaon in Maharashtra on September 30,2008, which mainly targeted and killed some local Muslims should be a matter of concern to all right-thinking Indians.  

2. Large sections of the Muslims,the anti-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) political class and the so-called secular elements in the Hindu community, which lose no opportunity to demonise the Hindu nationalists and the BJP in order to win the applause of the minorities and project themselves as liberals, have used the investigation to divert attention away from the hundreds of innocent civilians killed by the jihadi terrorists, many of them trained and assisted by the intelligence agencies of Pakistan and Bangladesh and inspired by the pan-Islamic ideology of Al Qaeda and its International Islamic Front (IIF).

3.They look upon the leaks from the ATS--- many of them based on narco-analysis of dubious investigation and evidentiary value--- as a pre-election Godsend in their campaign to project the Muslims as more sinned against than sinning and the nationalist-minded Hindus, who call for strong action against the jihadi terrorists, as chauvinists and Fascists.

4.This, despite the fact that resort to narco-analysis----which was frequently resorted to by Hitler's Nazis and Stalin's KGB to obtain confessions from political dissidents--- has stood condemned in the rest of the civilised world. Many of the thousands of political dissidents, who were sent to the Gulag and the firing squads by Stalin, were tried and convicted on the basis of narco-analysis.

5.The Wiki Encyclopaedia says as follows of narco-analysis: " Narco Analysis Test or Narco Test: This refers to the practice of administering barbiturates or certain other chemical substances, most often Pentothal Sodium, to lower a subject's inhibitions, in the hope that the subject will more freely share information and feelings. The term Narco Analysis was coined by Horseley. Narco analysis first reached the mainstream in 1922, when Robert House, a Texas obstetrician used the drug scopolamine on two prisoners. Since then narco testing has become largely discredited in most democratic states, including the United States and Britain. There is a vast body of literature calling into question its ability to yield legal truth. Additionally, narcoanalysis has serious legal and ethical implications."

6. Dr. Chandrasekhar, the legendary Indian Forensic science expert, who played a highly-acclaimed role in the successful investigation and prosecution of the LTTE conspirators involved in the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi, has been one of the strongest critics of the police in some Indian States resorting to narco-analysis, which is not a scientific method of investigation. In many countries of the world narco-analysis is viewed as a political tool and not a scientific tool.

7.On the basis of statements and remarks made by the suspects under the influence of drugs, which induce a state of semi-consciousness, large sections of the Hindu community have been sought to be demonised, the army has been unwittingly stigmatised and attention has been sought to be diverted from the investigation into acts of jihadi terrorism and from enquiries to establish the full extent of the so-called Indian Mujahideen iceberg.

8.I am proud to have been the first analyst to have drawn attention on October 2,2008, to the fact that the explosions of September 30 at Malegaon and Modasa in Gujarat did not gel with the explosions carried out in other parts of India by the jihadi terrorists. I was the first to have suggested that we should thoroughly investigate the suspected involvement of some Hindus in these blasts in order to gain the trust of the Muslim community and remove the misgivings in their mind about the fairness of the Police. I was the first to have suggested in a TV interview that if the Malegaon investigation warranted a re-visit to some of the past investigations into terrorist strikes in which Muslims were the main targets, the Police should not hesitate to do so.

9. I applauded the Mumbai ATS, when they started the investigation into the suspected involvement of some Hindus in the Malegaon blasts, but I have been greatly concerned over the manner in which their investigation----instead of remaining professional and scientific--- has taken what large sections of the Hindu majority of this country will view as a politically motivated direction.Some of the media leaks attributed to the Mumbai ATS make one think that the ATS has---wittingly or unwittingly--- started playing to the so-called secularists' gallery.

10.So many obvious questions, which should have been asked by objective opinion-makers, have not been asked.One of the suspects is alleged to have lent her motor-cycle to the perpetrators. Can one think of any instance in the recent history of terrorism in which a terrorist-suspect created evidence against himself or herself by using his or her own vehicle for planting an improvised explosive device (IED)?

11.A private military school, which coaches aspirants to a career in the Armed Forces, has been sought to be condemned on the ground that some of the suspects held a meeting in its premises. What is important is, what was the purpose of the meeting? Was it to plan specific acts of terrorism or was it merely to discuss how to counter anti-national jihadi terrorism? Innumerable meetings and seminars are held every year in presitgious training institutions of the Government to discuss, inter alia, appropriate strategies against jihadi terrorism, Pakistan and Bangladesh.Very often, the speakers call for strong retaliatory attacks against the terrorist organisations, Pakistan and Bangladesh? Are they to be viewed as instigators of terrorism and are our training institutions to be criticised for holding such discussions?

12.We are now told that the explosions in the Samjotha Express in the beginning of last year were also carried out by some Hindus with the help of RDX explosives allegedly supplied by a serving Army officer, who is presently under investigation.

13.I had written as follows on the Samjotha Express blasts on February 20,2007 ( http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers ... r2144.html ) :"The blasts on the Delhi-Attari Samjotha Express (Peace Express) on the night of February 18, 2007, are remarkable for the success as well as the failures of the terrorists. Their diabolic success is evident from the fact that two of the IEDs, reportedly attached to bottles containing incendiary material, functioned without a mishap, causing a carnage in which 67 passengers---mostly Indian and Pakistani Muslims---perished. Their surprising failure is evident from the fact that at least a half of their IEDs failed to explode and has been recovered by the railway authorities. According to some reports, they had planted a total of five IEDs of which three failed to function. According to others, they had planted four IEDs, of which two failed. So many failed IEDs should normally be a surprise in the case of well-trained, clued-up and experienced terrorists. The failures of the perpetrators of Deewana could indicate a possibility---remote at present--- that they were new to this business of terrorism---either new recruits of old and well-established organisations or new recruits of new organisations. A systematic follow-up of the forensic trail left by them should help in determining their identity in course of time."

14. The Delhi police, who investigated the blasts, did not say anything about the use of RDX explosives. From their briefings, it appeared that incendiary devices and not explosive devices were used in the Samjotha Express. That was also the conclusion of many Western experts, including of STRATFOR, the well-known US analysis organisation. If the Delhi police knew at that time that RDX was used, did they try to find out the source of the explosive? If not, why not?

15. If what the public is told now----on the basis of the leaks from the Mumbai ATS--- is correct, then what the Delhi Police told the public in February,2007, was wrong and vice versa.

16.The Mumbai ATS should investigate the blasts thoroughly and need not hesitate to have a second look at the Samjotha Express explosions, but they should do it in a professional manner, but not in a manner that adds to suspicions that the investigation has taken a pre-election political turn----- with the objective being to fix the Hindu nationalists and not to fix the terrorists.

17.I have written and spoken repeatedly about the spreading Muslim anger against what many Muslims look upon as the unfairness of the Indian criminal justice system against the Muslims. I have equally written and spoken frequently about the spreading Hindu anger against the Government and the so-called secularists over the failure to act strongly against the jihadi terrorists.

18. One should be careful to see that the manner of investigation by the ATS does not add to the Hindu anger and lead to a situation similat to what had happened in Northern Ireland where elements from the Protestant community took to arms and terrorism against the Catholics due to perceptions that the Government was not doing enough to protect them from the perpetrators of violence from the Catholic community.  

19. This may please be read in continuation of my earlier article titled "Anti-Muslim Reprisal Terrorism?" 23.10.2008 at http://ramansterrorismanalysis.blogspot ... orism.html  

(The writer is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topicval Studies, Chennai. E-mail: [email protected] )



http://ramansterrorismanalysis.blogspot ... anger.html
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by chetak »

RamaY wrote:
chetak wrote:The Army will not take too kindly to its reputation being trashed and dragged through the muck.
From here on, all unproven allegations and innuendos notwithstanding, every action of the Army will be seen through tinted glasses, corrosively debated and dissected by the jehadi lot. The morale of the soldiers is definitely going to take a hit especially at the lower end where they will easily be swayed by motivated and slanted press reportage.
Anyone notice how its only the "Hindu seculars" who are going hammer and tongs at the Hindus and the Army in all the TV talk shows. The regular muslims featured ad nauseum on these talk shows, like javed, Shabana et al are very quiet. The urdu press as usual is hyper active and is going ballistic.
The muslim "seculars" are waiting for the damage to be done by their virulent Hindu counterparts before they move in for the kill. They are marshaling their forces and keeping the powder dry.
Col Purohit is going to be very very dead, figuratively speaking, forget his personal reputation.
He is for sure headed for the clink, dishonorably discharged, deprived of his pension and all other benefits, drawn and quartered, if only to make an example of him and show that justice is actually being done.
No action will be taken by any other agency. Only the Army will act and that too solely on its own initiative. This episode has very wide ramifications for them. Its rumoured that some IAS babus are also stirring the pot, trying to schutp the Army when they are down.
Remember the tehelka affair?
Its the fake secular Hindu b******s who are doing all the public damage. Without an iota of doubt, money is what motivates this scum. Some coordinated and concerted action is urgently required to stop these guys before things get out of hand.
Any ideas?
You mention three aspects of the current conflict:

1. Army - Unless there is a military coup kind of strategy, which is extremely remote, there is nothing IA can do in this scenario. The 6th Pay commission and all other civil/military type are preamble to this situation IMO. All IA can do for now is to lie low and take this nonsense, until time is ripe.

2. Media - your observations are very true. Unless whatever little nationalistic-media we have comes out with a coordinated counter strategy, India cannot rely upon Media to protect the national security and stop destroying the little trust public has in Public Administration. It is very sad to see the media destroying anything that represents democracy and native culture. The only way out is to organize a counter propaganda machine.

3. Politics - There is nothing BJP or RSS can do at this point in this situation. It is in thier and the nation's best interest they come work together at the gross root level to win the upcoming state and general elections. This is the only way out for them and for the country.

There is never ever going to be an Army coup in India. This is a given. The reasons are too numerous to go into here.

As for the Indian media,especially the ELM , just google to find the (inimical to India!) poisonous ownership linkages between the various TV channels, motivated foreign media houses, jealous countries, church and islamic interests. For instance, check out the incestuous relationships in NDTV. The menage a trois between anti national political parties, loony and motivated activists and the burkha (I have the right spelling!) dutt staff members is truly stupefying. Amazing to think that any good is ever going to come out of this lot. The other channels are no better. Its depressing to think that we as a country can be so easily taken down. And in broad daylight too. All it took was a few pieces of silver.
You really need to understand the motivation of such "journalists" and their mission to run the country down. Even Judas would have been ashamed!
Some of the "journalists" have even shamelessly lobbied for and got padma bhushan or shree or some such shit!
With political parties like sonia's, India will be shafted. We are basically back to the East India company scene where a few gora saabs and their minions ruled the country. Manchurian candidates like mms, arjun singhs et al are also not helping.
Where else in the world can you see a minuscule and ill qualified minority community such as the one with which the top echelons of the congress party seems to be packed ride roughshod over a billion people? These jokers are not even qualified or capable in any way except the cross which they all seem to so cheerfully bear! Laughing their merry way to the bank. Add a few lalus, paswans, sachars, arjun singhs and vp singhs. We truly don't need enemies with friends like these.
And we are the oldest civilization in the world. We have failed to understand our own history and so seem destined to relive it all over again.
About political parties, the less said the better.
R_Kumar
BRFite
Posts: 390
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 12:07

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by R_Kumar »

NDTV Big Fight- Malegaon investigatiion

Fight was very much on the expected plot. I found one thing interesting though.
around 40:00 minutes, a congress leader is there in the panel and while speaking against Rajnath Singh he says "For a minute lets assume that BJP is in power, which of-course they are going to be..."
Have they got clear indication from the IB that they are going to loose the election? Is this the Malegaon drama their last hope?
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10205
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by sum »

Malegaon blast: Fake documents case filed against Purohit

A case has been filed against Lt Col Purohit for obtaining an arms license for a Pune resident using fake documents.A case has been filed against Lt Col Purohit for obtaining an arms license for a Pune resident using fake documents.

A case has been filed against Lt Col Purohit for obtaining an arms license for a Pune resident using fake documents.

Nashik, November 16: : A case has been filed against Lt Col Prasad Purohit, arrested for his alleged involvement in the Malegaon blast case, for obtaining an arms license for a Pune resident using fake documents, police said in Nashik on Sunday.

The case was filed at the Sarkarwada police station by Shirish Yeshwant Date for allegedly obtaining the arms license in 2005, they said.

The complainant, who knew the arrested army officer through his family, has alleged that he had paid Purohit Rs 20,000 in order to obtain a license for his revolver, police said.

Purohit allegedly submitted documents showing Date was living in the Devlali army camp to obtain the license.

"After learning of Purohit's involvement in the Malegaon blast case, Date decided to check the authenticity of his license obtained from Nashik and discovered that fake documents had been submitted. He then voluntarily came forward to file the complaint against Purohit," police said.

The army officer has been booked under sections 420, 465, 468, 471 and 474 of the IPC in the case. Police said they are also investigating persons who aided Purohit in obtaining the fake documents.

Purohit is currently in police custody till November 18.
The strategy seems to be to file a mountain of charges against the Col.....anyways, most of them wont stand in court and so, the ATS can always hope that even if one charge clicks, the man is condemned to jail.

Added: Channels reported that ATS has found Col Purohit's link with the Ajmer and Mecca masjid blasts also..... :-?
Wonder which blasts are left out where his name doesn't figure? the 7/11 Mumbai blasts?
mayurav
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 96
Joined: 15 Apr 2006 06:47
Location: Banavasi

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by mayurav »

{I have called for a ban on postor mayurav and am awaiting the opinions of other admins b4 implementing that.

IMO, his post (now deleted because we don't want it stinking up a forum where some 30,000 civilized people read and post their views) is an explicit endorsement of terrorist crimes, a call to violence against an elected democratic government of a friendly country, or against the mother country of most postors here, and against citizens of India who just happen to be born in a particular community or believe in a particular religion, and for general chaos and anarchy, explicitly INCLUDING violence.

That crosses all lines of behavior. This postor has in the past been very clearly warned that his posts appear to be those of a racist bigot, now proven to also try to use our forum to call for terrorist and random violence. The appropriate law enforcement agencies may want to look into his activities if they reflect his opinions, but that is up to them.

As for postor RamaY, the quote below raises quite a few questions, but asking a question as s(he) has done here does not constitute explicit endorsement of any answer, so I think the question should be allowed to stand. S(he) may want to consider that it may be a good thing that it was left as a question, at least here.}
RamaY wrote:
mayurav wrote: The Indian republic seems to have gotten away so far without a drastic internal realignment. Will invention of this "Hindu terrorism" change that? Are drastic upheavals a common mechanism for a republic to reinvent itself? Are drastic upheavals inevitable when internal contradictions become too severe?

{Smelly trash consigned to the e-trash-incinerator}
Last edited by enqyoob on 16 Nov 2008 21:09, edited 5 times in total.
Reason: Post blatantly calling for racist/communal violence and waging war against an elected democratic government of a country that we care about deeply
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60233
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by ramana »

The daily revelations are gonig to test BRF like never before. I suggest folks think it over cooly before hitting submit button. Its treason to advocate violent overthrow of government. Any one advocating such will be banned without warning.
Thanks, ramana
sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1793
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by sunilUpa »

Am I the only guy thinking that Congress is just handing the power to BJP in a plate with all these shenaginans? If they ban RSS (they won't) it will be the last nail...
enqyoob
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2658
Joined: 06 Jul 2008 20:25

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by enqyoob »

{deleted}
Last edited by enqyoob on 17 Nov 2008 17:43, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Wrong thread for election politics, sorry.
vsudhir
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2173
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 03:44
Location: Dark side of the moon

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by vsudhir »

narayanan wrote:Question in my mind is whether the BJP can organize itself to run an effective election campaign. So far the record is not encouraging.
I agree.

And should the NDA return to power, it will be thanks more to the INC's mistakes than its own effectiveness. The UPA has set the governance bar (among other bars) really low.
Tamang
BRFite
Posts: 700
Joined: 19 Jun 2002 11:31
Location: Nai Dilli, Bharatvarsh

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Tamang »

ATS denies 60kg RDX used in Samjhauta blast
MUMBAI/NASHIK: Maharashtra's Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) on Sunday denied that the 60kg of RDX that Lt-Col Prasad Purohit had pilfered was used in the Samjhauta Express blast in February last year. Public prosecutor Ajay Misar, representing the ATS in the Malegaon blast case, had on Saturday told a Nashik court that the pilfered RDX was used in the Samjhauta blast case.

However, on Sunday, he blamed the media for "wrong interpretation" of his remark in the court. "I told the court that the police have to find out whether the 60kg RDX was used in some blasts across the country, including the Malegaon blast. My sentence has wrongly been interpreted by some newspapers," Misar said.
Misar told the court on Saturday that Purohit (39) had handed over 60 kg RDX to one person identified as Bhagwan who used it for the Samjhauta blast. "A witness told us that Purohit had 60 kg RDX in his possession while posted in Deolali, Nashik. He had to deposit the explosive at the army's artillery department in Jammu and Kashmir. However, Purohit told our witness that he had not deposited the explosive with the army and instead told them that he had threw it into the Jhelum river in J&K. He later gave the RDX to a person named Bhagwan who used it in the Samjhauta train bomb blast," Misar had told chief judicial magistrate H K Gantra while seeking an extension in Purohit's police custody.

Interestingly, the ATS prosecutor also did not clarify whether the Army conducted any internal probe after the 60kg RDX went missing and how much RDX was used in the train blast.
sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1793
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by sunilUpa »

They need a leader who can call spade a spade, but even without such a leader, BJP can only hand back the plate.

About 6 months back I had great doubts about BJP's chances...they had no platform to fight Congress. Then the way Congress handled the blasts gave them the platform (sadly they haven't utilized it effectively). Now Congress is trying to yank that platform from BJP by trying to shift part of the blame on Safron organizations. But shoddy investigation and the very alarcity shown in this investigation will favor BJP. This is nothing but a witch hunt and public knows it.

JMT..
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34981
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by shiv »

There is a tendency to club the RSS and BJP together by many people.

In fact the RSS is ideologically driven and other than grassroots people's support it has no power = specifically because it lacks the apparatus for really corrupt dealings that politicians do. That is why it is possible to "ban" an organization like the RSS. The RSS is generally full of clean and innocent Hindus.

The BJP is a political party and like the Congress it has some clean and ideologically driven people, but at the grass roots level it has to rely on the same corrupt local politicians and criminal thugs that the Congress or any other party uses for electoral ends. For that reason the BJP cannot be banned. They have some grassroots goon power.

The election commission requires that ever political candidate declare his assets before an election and state if he ha criminal cases pending against him. For the forthcoming Lok Sabha elections it is worth looking at these details for every single candidate and comparing on a party by party basis as to who has bigger goondas standing for election.

Sorry - wrong thread.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Philip »

I think that Mr.Raman has put the matter in its proper perspective and the fears of the politicisation of the case.One suggestion.We on BR should NOT label the alleged right-wing extremists accused-who happen to be Hindus,as being part of so-called alleged Hindu terror.If at all the word Hindu is used it should be thus, "Hindu",indicating a supposed attitude not the actual reality,in the same manner as I have labelled certain "Christian" outfits and so-called "Christian" countries.The accused in Malegaon just happen to be Hindus,that too a miniscule fraction of the community in the country,like a grain of sand on the beach and cannot be equated with the concerted anti-Indian "Islamist" terror planned by external elements like the ISI,sometimes using their local cells.He is also spot on as to the investigating techniques are concerned and the use of narco-analysis.I knew Dr.Chandrasekhar well years ago.If he has doubts on the subject,narco-analysis,then such reports of suspects' statements should be banned and not sensationalised in such manner.

In such cases as in the Malegaon case,the accused have already been tried by the media and presumed guilty.Terror trials,going by the track record will take years and until the verdict is given,the presumption of guilt of the accused thanks to the media's gross sensationalisation of the case ,will colour the minds of ordinary citizens and if some of the accused are later found innocent,the stigma of suspicion will never go away.The Subba Rao case,where a naval officer,a specialist in nuclear technology was accused of espionage,as he cast doubts on BARC being able to develop a nuclear powerplant for the ATV,is a case to remember.His career was destroyed thanks to trial by media.The Samba spy scandal is another controversial case.

One fact that has yet received a proper answer from the authorities is why they did nothing for two years when a suspect told them about the right wing extremism,to investigate matters? Was it deliberately kept quiet until an opportune moment arrived ,that too nearer to elections? The politicisation of the case may heavily backfire upon the Congres,which in its own interests should handle the entire case,investigation and prosecution in a transparent manner,with a parliament oversight team which will inspire connfidence in the minds of the people.The news in today's media that the legislation available to prosecute terror has been found stale and wanting,giving the impression that the GOI is also soft on terror, will upset the govt. no end.It will also reinforce in people's minds that the current regime will do and can do very little to combat terror as it lacks the will to do so.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by chetak »

sunilUpa wrote:Am I the only guy thinking that Congress is just handing the power to BJP in a plate with all these shenaginans? If they ban RSS (they won't) it will be the last nail...

A more realistic viewpoint would be to consider the "sucker punch".
The congress may well want the BJP to inherit this unholy mess and consequently the BJP govt falls due to its inability to tackle the situation and the congress moves back into government in some sort of coalition.
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by RamaY »

chetak wrote: A more realistic viewpoint would be to consider the "sucker punch".
The congress may well want the BJP to inherit this unholy mess and consequently the BJP govt falls due to its inability to tackle the situation and the congress moves back into government in some sort of coalition.
Exactly my thoughts.

If at all BJP/NDA comes into power in the upcoming elections and does not implement -

1. Uniform Civil Code
2. Abolition of Article 370

It will not gain any political legitimacy as a rightist/nationalist party IMHO.

And if it doesn't reconstruct Ram Temple in Ayodhya in the next term, it should not be called a Hindu/Saffron party. It will lose the moral authority to seek votes in the name of Ram, once it fails to use the second chance it was given by the electorate.
R_Kumar
BRFite
Posts: 390
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 12:07

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by R_Kumar »

Why they shouldn't be judged by their governance?
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by RamaY »

R_Kumar wrote:Why they shouldn't be judged by their governance?
They should be. That would include the Article 370, and UCC issues.

But we are in the fake-secularism thread :wink: , so I narrowed down the criteria.

Thanks
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14751
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Aditya_V »

Forensic lab contradicts claim of RDX use in Samjhauta blasts
http://www.dailypioneer.com/135001/ATS- ... -dark.html

If what the article states is truth then should isn't yet anther lie by the Green-red brigade (sons of a foreign soil) nailed. If these guys had any shame they would apologize for the lies being said to the nation.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by chetak »

RamaY wrote:
chetak wrote: A more realistic viewpoint would be to consider the "sucker punch".
The congress may well want the BJP to inherit this unholy mess and consequently the BJP govt falls due to its inability to tackle the situation and the congress moves back into government in some sort of coalition.
Exactly my thoughts.

If at all BJP/NDA comes into power in the upcoming elections and does not implement -

1. Uniform Civil Code
2. Abolition of Article 370

It will not gain any political legitimacy as a rightist/nationalist party IMHO.

And if it doesn't reconstruct Ram Temple in Ayodhya in the next term, it should not be called a Hindu/Saffron party. It will lose the moral authority to seek votes in the name of Ram, once it fails to use the second chance it was given by the electorate.

Both your conditions have international ramifications, jehadi and fake secular ramifications.
The overactive and paranoid ELM will go into overdrive to counter these issues because of motivated backing from internationally interested parties. Not to mention the slanted international press reportage.
The BJP has been turned into a gutless wonder by old men in a hurry. Thirsting for acclaim and recognition that each feels has been unfairly denied to him. Scenes of burning buses, cannon fodder killed in police firings, close ups of wailing family members beamed internationally in glorious technicolor will dampen the ardor of these politicos. Industry wallas will stop financing the politicos because such reporting will hurt their business and scare away clients. UCC and 370 need large doses of aphrodisiac and staying power. Both lacking under the current dispensation of the BJP

It may be better to do something like a creeping acquisition on the Ayodhya issue. This issue if swallowed whole, has the potential to destabilize the country, mainly because of distressed international players who are eager to divert attention from their own messy creations. The size of the global islamic market is considerable. Money talks very loudly
Learn from the vatican on how to operate under the radar. The itch in the dhotis of the BJP wallas has to be controlled and channeled. The loonies that will leap out of the woodwork consequent to any high profile action have to be muzzled, by force, if necessary. Advani would do well to study the methods of the vatican through the centuries. They have always been better organized than the pentagon and their methods are strategic in scope, ruthlessly effective in execution, and most importantly subtle and completely amoral. Like the chinese they are prepared to wait for decades to achieve the desired result. They know how to play the press and spin their motives to suit the required configuration of the moment. "Mother" Teressa is a point in example. Also check out the sudden spurt of PIO saints or PIO saints in the making. Never before has it happened in the history of the vatican.

The congress has a raja and praja organization. Fear rules here. The BJP is all raja and no praja. This is why they fail time and again, hara kiri by tilting at windmills.

There is really no alternative to an organized BJP under the present circumstances. But most important, do they know this and can they get their act together in time? I really doubt it.

{Thanks, but let's move away from the election politics discussion - there is a thread devoted to that. I deleted my post above}
Last edited by enqyoob on 17 Nov 2008 17:46, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: To end the election discussion on this thread and get back to the topic
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Philip »

Thank you Chetak for bringing the Vatican's strategy and tactics into the debate.

Stalin famously asked,
"How many divisions does the Pope have?"

He was contemptuous of the Catholic Church,but as the following article puts it,three decades later,Communism was in full retreat and a Polish Pope elected! The BJP would do well to emulate the Vatican and embark upon an all-India camp[aign to woo voters.ABV was acceptable to all kinds of Indians.He had and has an excellent reputation.Mr.Advani would do well to seek his advice in the forthcoming hustings,as no one likes chaos and confusion that some egos in the saffron camp are displaying.The foll. article shows that religion is still well alive and kicking despite rumours of its demise by "secularists".

Excerpt:

"The notion that the world is growing more secular -- that, as technology and prosperity increase, religion inevitably loses its influence -- is simply wrong. Stalin and his successors are gone; the pope remains. Even in the State Department, an awareness of religion as a forgotten dimension of diplomacy and political analysis begins to dawn."

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/ideas/0 ... ision.html

The Pope's Division
By Willliam J. Hamblin and Daniel C. Peterson
When an advisor warned him against conflict with the Catholic Church, Josef Stalin contemptuously demanded, “How many divisions does the pope have?” It was a rhetorical question. It presumed the obvious: With no army at all, what threat could the pope pose to Soviet tyranny?

Stalin's presumption was wrong. Less than three decades after his death, the Catholic Church elected a Polish pope. This was a vital factor in the collapse of communism, not only in Poland but throughout Eastern Europe. The triumphant homecoming of John Paul II soon after his election in 1978 demonstrated that the pope has many powerful "divisions."

Blindness to the continuing power of religion is not limited to Kremlin atheists. In the mid- to late 1970s, as discontent with the rule of the Shah in Iran began to boil, both government and academic experts on the Middle East routinely downplayed it. After all, who were the Shah's opponents? A ragtag alliance of bazaar merchants, led by Islamic clergy who, it seemed, had scarcely emerged from the Middle Ages. The Shah, by contrast, had a large and well-trained army. He had tanks. He had jet fighter aircraft. In a struggle between the twentieth century and the seventh, who could doubt the outcome?

For more than two decades now, the West has struggled to cope with the Islamic Republic of Iran. We have faced militant Islam in Algeria, in the Sudanese civil war, in Afghanistan, in Beirut and south Lebanon, in the Philippines, at the World Trade Center. Islamic fundamentalism will challenge us for years to come, abroad and at home.

The notion that the world is growing more secular -- that, as technology and prosperity increase, religion inevitably loses its influence -- is simply wrong. Stalin and his successors are gone; the pope remains. Even in the State Department, an awareness of religion as a forgotten dimension of diplomacy and political analysis begins to dawn.

The realization has hardly come too soon. Around the world, religions and religious people exercise not a diminishing, but an increasing influence on public affairs. India and Pakistan exist as separate countries because of divisions between Hindus and Muslims. Now Sikh activism complicates the scene. Extremist Catholics and Protestants in northern Ireland have kept their bloody conflict going for years. Ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel confront an ever more militant Palestinian Islamic movement. U.S. politicians court the Christian Right. Sportswear giant Nike recently capitulated to a coalition of unhappy American Muslims who threatened it with a boycott. Even the prosperous and largely secular Japanese have suffered from the deadly fantasies of a conspiratorial religious group armed with poison gas.

Of course, not all manifestations of religion in contemporary society are negative. While violent, frightening or bizarre elements of religion grab headlines, it's most powerful effects are surely found in the private lives of ordinary people, in their work and families, in what they choose to value or reject, and how they respond to stress and sorrow. The surge of evangelical Christianity gives meaning and discipline to millions of Americans. Prison officials across the nation report that the spread of Islam and conservative Protestantism assists in rehabilitating inmates and lowering their rate of recidivism. Recent studies seem to confirm the power of religious belief to promote mental health, and even to aid recovery from illness and injury.

Religion is hardly dead. Fundamentalist Christianity flourishes in Brazil. In rural Guatemala, it may already have supplanted Catholicism. Mormonism, some say, is poised to become the first new global faith since Islam emerged from Arabia in the seventh century. U.S. Muslims now outnumber adherents of some of the so-called "mainline" churches. There will soon be more regular worshipers in the mosques of the United Kingdom than in Anglican churches. The Islamic prayer call echoes through Balkan cities where, not long ago, atheism was imposed by law and the practice of any faith at all was a criminal offense.

Religion is vibrantly, fascinatingly, alive.

Our essays will examine it around the world -- Christian and non-Christian, ancient, medieval, and modern -- from many perspectives. Religion is of virtually infinite interest and human significance (not to mention its importance in eternity). We hope that you share our enthusiasm for this richly varied and instructive subject.


Click here to sign up for Meridian's FREE email updates.
Manu
BRFite
Posts: 765
Joined: 28 May 2003 11:31

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Manu »

Posting some news items, without any comment.

Link
Sadhvi Pragya Thakur tortured by ATS: Lawyers
17 Nov 2008, 1413 hrs IST, PTI

NASHIK: Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, an accused in the Malegaon blast, has alleged that she has been tortured and ill-treated by the Anti-Terrorism Squad, her counsel told a court on Monday. ( Watch )

Eight blast accused were produced by the police in the Nashik Magistrate Court to demand extension of their judicial custody, which ends tomorrow.

The sadhvi asked the court to provide her the Hindi translation of the submission made by her lawyers, which was in English, as she could not understand it. "Mujhe maloom nahin mera kasoor kya hai (I do not know what is my crime)," she told the court.
Link
Counsel clarifies Purohit didn't get army RDX
NDTV Correspondent
Monday, November 17, 2008, (Nashik)
It is U-turn that could prove expensive for the Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS).

The state appointed public prosecutor is now saying that he was misquoted and that he never said that the RDX was pilfered from the Army and used in the Samjhauta Express blast.

On Saturday the same public prosecutor had said in court that Malegaon accused Lt Colonel S Purohit had sourced army RDX for the Samjhauta Express blasts. He made these arguments in court while trying to extend his custody.
The development comes after the Anti-Terrorist Squad began looking at the possibility of Purohit's involvement in the train blasts which killed 68 people.
The blasts took place on February 17, 2007 near Panipat in Haryana.
Initial investigations in the case had said that the perpetrators of the blast could have affiliations with Lashkar-e-Toiba.
Link
'No info on Purohit’s links with Masjid blasts'
Express News Service
First Published : 17 Nov 2008 09:43:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 17 Nov 2008 01:18:41 PM IST
HYDERABAD: The Andhra Pradesh police on Sunday said they had no information from their Maharashtra counterparts linking the serving Army officer, Lieutenant Colonel Prasad Shrikant Purohit, suspected to be involved in the Malegaon bomb blasts, with the Mecca Masjid blasts which shook the city on May 18 last year.

The Mecca Masjid blast case is being investigated by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI).

‘’We have no information whatsoever in this regard,’’ Director- General of Police (DGP) SSP Yadav told The New Indian Express.

However, a police team from the State is likely to reach Mumbai shortly to probe further links between those arrested there in connection with the August 25 twin blasts at Gokul Chat and Lumbini Park. “We are in constant touch with the Mumbai ATS. But so far, they themselves have no clue on it,’’ officials said. In fact, sources said there was no mention of the Mecca Masjid blast in Purohit’s remand report submitted before the Nashik Court.

Another senior police official said after certain TV channels aired the news about Purohit’s possible link with the Mecca Masjid blast, the Hyderabad city police officials checked up with the Mumbai ATS.
Link
Army debunks ATS claim that Purohit sourced RDX
CNN-IBN
New Delhi: While the ATS may be declaring victory over alleged confessions of Lt Col Purohit, the Indian Army insiders point out that the ATS version of events has several holes.

The ATS claim that Purohit sourced RDX from the Army's stock is debunked by the Army.The Indian Army is not known to use or store RDX, say sources. The explosives used by the Army are TNT and plastic explosives (PEK).

Also, explosives seized by the Army in Jammu and Kashmir are either destroyed on the spot or handed over to the police.

Besides, 60 kg of RDX is a huge quantity of explosives. If such a large quantity of explosives goes missing while in the Army's holds, it would become a subject matter of a major inquiry.

Lt Col Srikant Prasad Purohit was a Major when he was posted in Kashmir as a Military Intelligence officer and that is too low a position to manipulate such huge quantities of explosives.

Also, seizures, in any case are effected by infantry and never by intelligence personnel. Purohit was never imparted, nor did he acquire any expertise in bomb making in the Army.

Therefore, it is highly unlikely that Lt Col Purohit could have sourced RDX from Army stores, say sources.
Manu
BRFite
Posts: 765
Joined: 28 May 2003 11:31

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Manu »

Link
Hindu twist to Samjhauta blasts leaves Haryana police confused

Ajay Bharadwaj

CHANDIGARH: The Haryana police are in a spot as their findings in the Samjhauta Express blast case are in sharp contrast to that by the Maharashtra ATS.

While the Maharashtra ATS, which is pointing to the involvement of Hindu groups, has concluded RDX was used in the blast that ripped two bogeys of the train killing 68 persons in February 2007. But the Haryana forensic experts had earlier concluded that low-intensity IEDs (improvised explosive device) containing potassium chlorate and sulphur along with diesel caused the blast.

The explosives were planted in suitcases.

The FSL arrived at the conclusion on the basis of chemical examination of two unexploded suitcase bombs recovered from the train. Forensics had later defused the bombs. FSL director J.S. Mahanwal had clarified that “local-made” equipment was used to make the low-intensity explosives.

He said experts had assembled the “firebombs” as the suitcases were fitted with light-emitting diodes (LEDs), tiny illuminating device that confirms smooth functioning of the circuit. The bottles used for explosions were sealed with a high quality sealant to cover the foul smell, which further helped the explosives explode with a massive intensity, the FSL director had said.

The Haryana police had released sketches of two suspects on the basis of which one Salman was picked up from Rajasthan. The police also identified a Pakistani national who allegedly threw one of the suitcase bombs out of the running train. In March, the police arrested two people from Indore who had allegedly sold the suitcases used in the blasts. No charges were, however, pressed on them.

With its findings debunked by the Maharashtra ATS, the Haryana police are now keen to interrogate take Purohit on remand and conduct narco tests.

Haryana ADG VN Rai, who has been heading the Samjhauta probe, denied that the Maharashtra ATS had broken new ground in the investigation.

He said there was still no major breakthrough in the investigation. “We are closely monitoring the situation and are in touch with Mumbai ATS. Our probe status still stands at Indore,” Rai said.

The Haryana police on Thursday said they were making arrangements to call Shaukat Ali, a Samjhauta blast survivor who saw a person alighting from the train minutes before the blast. Shaukat lost five children in the blast and had helped the special investigation team (SIT) make sketches of the person.

Indicating that the SIT might bring Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur and the co-accused army men to Panipat, IG (railways) KK Mishra said he could not reveal more.
PTI adds that Haryana Railway Police interrogated Lt Col PS Purohit and Dayanand Pandey in Mumbai. “Since Sadhvi Pragya Thakur is in judicial custody, she was not available for interrogation,” Mishra said.

“After we make some headway, we would have each and everybody, including eyewitnesses of the incident, together,” he added.
This hatchet job by TOI(let) should be in the Psy-Ops thread, but for sake of continuity, am posting it here:
Link
Gujarat cops silent on links with saffron terror
17 Nov 2008, 0017 hrs IST, TNN

Ahmedabad: As the new face of saffron terror and its scary links with Gujarat unfold in the Malegaon blast investigation, the Gujarat police's silence on these developments, and on the Modasa blast which took place the same day (September 29), is deafening.

While Chief Minister Narendra Modi chose an election rally at Raipur in Chhattisgarh to call the arrest of Lt Col Shrikant Prasad Purohit a step to "demoralise the army", Gujarat ATS has completely ignored the admissions of this army officer of having run a terror camp "close to Ahmedabad".

Obviously, Gujarat police is soft-pedalling the Modasa blast case, even as Mumbai ATS claims to be close to cracking the Malegaon one. In mid-August, when Gujarat police claimed to crack the Ahmedabad serial blasts case of July 26 arresting 10, Gujarat government went into a publicity blitzkrieg saying how it had shown the way in cracking terror plots.

Subsequently, when Mumbai police claimed to solve the serial terror jigsaw with the arrest of Mohammed Mansoor Asghar Peerbhoy and other Indian Mujahideen (IM) activists, Gujarat police not only acknowledged it but brought them for questioning to Ahmedabad.

But not so in the case of Sadhvi Pragya Singh, Lt Col Purohit and self-styled guru Dayanand Pandey who allegedly used Gujarat as their base to hatch the Malegaon plot. Despite Purohit's revelations of a terror camp on the outskirts of Ahmedabad at Bhat, the police have not even visited the ashram nor questioned anybody. Purohit said in his narco-analysis at Bangalore that he trained 500 people here.

Since the Surat-based Sadhvi's arrest, state police officials probing the Modasa blast have made in all 12 trips to Mumbai, but failed to get any clues. Instead, the Mumbai ATS is said to be hot on the trail of south Gujarat-based Swami Aseemanand who is allegedly linked to the Malegaon conspiracy.
Manu
BRFite
Posts: 765
Joined: 28 May 2003 11:31

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Manu »

Yet another "Twist"
Link
J&K parties gun for former governor

On a day when Jammu and Kashmir goes to polls, bitter rivals National Conference and PDP have joined hands to seek a high-level probe into reports of proximity between self-proclaimed religious guru Dayanand Pandey, arrested in connection with Malegaon blasts, and former Governor Lt. Gen (Retired) S K Sinha.

Farooq Abdullah, who is NC's Chief Ministerial candidate has sought an explanation from the ex-Governor on reports of closeness between him and Pandey.

The former Chief Minister has demanded an inquiry into what he called "smuggling" of RDX, seized from militants in the state, to other parts of the country.

With the role of armymen in the Malegaon blast case, Abdullah says since Sinha was a high-ranking army person, he should thoroughly be investigated.
This is what it has come to, any links with the Army will now be viewed with suspicion.
Link
Was J&K ex-governor close to terror suspect?
NDTV Correspondent
Monday, November 17, 2008 (Srinagar)
The Malegaon blast investigations just got messier with former Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir, Mufti Mohammed Syed demanding that the Centre investigate the links between former Jammu and Kashmir Governor Lt General S K Sinha and terror suspect Dayanand Pandey.

Syed says that there were reports that Pandey, the alleged mastermind behind the Malegaon blasts, was the guest of the Governor in 2007. (Watch)

The former J&K Chief Minister said: "They say Dayanand Pandey came in 2007 and even before that he was here. He is the mastermind of the Malegaon blast {Guilty already?}. He has been arrested. He was the guest of His Excellency Governor retired General S K Sinha. I think the investigating officer has made this revelation that they have interrogated him. ATS did it and they have the admission, it should be thoroughly probed. I don't know if General S K Sinha is involved. I can't say that, but they were close."

Self-styled guru Dayanand Pandey, arrested by Maharashtra's Anti-Terror Squad from Kanpur, is a man of many faces.

In the police files he is Dayanand Pandey, the man who with Lieutenant Colonel S Purohit was part of the Malegaon blast conspiracy. The association reportedly goes back to their days together in Srinagar. The police stumbled onto him through Purohit's confessions.

In his hometown Kanpur, he was called Sudhakar Dwivedi. He lived with his father Uday Dhar Dwivedi, a retired inspector of Uttar Pradesh Police, finally arrested from the house of his brother Pushkar Dwivedi, an advocate in Rawatpur.

As a young man, he put himself through religious studies at Varanasi's Sampoornanand Vidyalay. He was called Amritanand.

In 2006, he went to Gorakhpur as Jagatguru Shankracharya on the invitation of Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) MLA Shiv Pratap Shukla. Somebody questioned his identity and he fled.

In Faridabad Mata Mandir, he was a regular visitor going by the grand title of Jagatguru Swami Amritanand Devtirth Maraharj. He met people, mostly VIP visitors only in the night making ashram workers suspicious.

In Jammu, where he claimed to be the president of Sharda Peeth, he called himself Swami Amritanand. The Peeth is an important body for Kashmiri Pandits. After being ousted for misappropriating funds, he founded a rival body, Sharda Sarvgya Peeth. And went by alias Swami Amritanand Dev Teerth.

However, sources say it's finally in Srinagar where Dayanand Pandey moved to in 2002-2003, living close to the cantonment area. He reportedly met Lieutenant Colonel Purohit and sourced weapons from him.

Police believe his many identities and his saffron garb offered a perfect cover to network terror activities.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by chetak »

Philip wrote:Thank you Chetak for bringing the Vatican's strategy and tactics into the debate.

Stalin famously asked,
"How many divisions does the Pope have?"

He was contemptuous of the Catholic Church,but as the following article puts it,three decades later,Communism was in full retreat and a Polish Pope elected! The BJP would do well to emulate the Vatican and embark upon an all-India camp[aign to woo voters.ABV was acceptable to all kinds of Indians.He had and has an excellent reputation.Mr.Advani would do well to seek his advice in the forthcoming hustings,as no one likes chaos and confusion that some egos in the saffron camp are displaying.The foll. article shows that religion is still well alive and kicking despite rumours of its demise by "secularists".

Philipji,
Without offense,
Many popes have come and gone but India is still bumbling along. Their strategy is of interest to me not their religion.
Our civilization is assimilative in nature and this simple distinction was not well understood by the islamic hordes or the east India company that followed later nor by the vatican IMHO. India is not weak. It takes enormous civilizational strength to do what India has done. Invading strangers have spat on us or worse. In a manner of speaking, we have wiped off the spittle, welcomed them and we are still around. They have receded into the background and all this was done without any divisions as in "How many divisions does the Pope have?".
We would do well to study and emulate the vatican's ancient strategy as applied to the realization of objectives and purely as a lesson in innovative management. They have taken strategic planning to new heights, both in conception and execution.
We have anyway neglected our own chanakya, to our suffering detriment.
During ABV's time we were almost sold down the river because a rumored Nobel peace prize was dangled of front of the dramatis personae. ABV, good chap though he is, feels that he is a victim of unrequited greatness. A big gaping hole that was waiting to be exploited and it almost was. Like I said, old men in a hurry. Plenty of them in India. Advani leading!
Please recall Musharraf's swaggering demeanor during the Agra visit. He definitely knew something that the rest of us were not privy to but realized in part much later as some of the pieces started to fall into place. His insultingly arrogant approach clearly indicated that he thought that the fix was in. When the scheme did not go as per the scripted fix, his strategy and demeanor unraveled rapidly. Tail between legs he slunk away.
The idea for such a fix could very well have originated in sunny italian climes! Is it possible to have a sonia anywhere else in the world? Having outsourced our national leadership, some sceptics are bound to wonder about who is paying the piper. This is why we need to study the approach of the vatican.
In the meanwhile we will continue to bumble along.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Philip »

Chetak,we do owe ABV and the NDA P-2.Yes,Musharrat did think that he could take advantage of an "old geezer" commando fashion,tried to obtain at Agra what he could not gain on the kargil battlefield too,but remember that the guile and cunning of old men is not to be underestimated.That's why the Chinese revere and respect their older members of the clan.It was however the US that prevented us from once again giving Pak a bloody nose on the battlefield,with the bogey of Pak using its nukes if in extremis.More than the "Pax Romana" it was the "Pax Americana " and a certain Clint,not Eastwood,who saved Sharif and Musharrat's bacon.Regrettably,because there is more debate and openness in the other parties,they appear to be less cohesive than the Congress,where the "Centre" always reigns supreme.The "Dynasty" is both a constitutional and an ideological monarchy! It is the mascot which the party takes into battle as did the Crusaders with the "true cross" of Jerusalem.See the way in which Maggie Alva has been cut to size.The ranks fall in line in fear of being axed.There are always enough Congress rebels to seize the moment and occupy a rung of the ladder when a leader falls!

Explaining why Malegaon happened-if the facts are what we hear in the media are true,is an easy task for opposition parties.The failure of combating repeated Islamist terror has brought this about,that citizens feel that they need to do something themselves to avenge such terror when the govt. appears to be doing nothing.More Malegaons are in the offing if the sorry situ continues.One must rmember that along with terror attacks,the number of casualties of uniformed police ,military and paramilitary forces ,victims of such Islamist terror has been dramatically increasing with each year.If those supposed to protect the nation from such terror feel that their hands are tied,or that the guilty are escaping punishment thanks to slow justice and votebank politics,it is no surprise that some individuals have been pushed to such extreme action.The latest Outlook mag has the issue devoted to the debate.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by chetak »

Philip wrote:Chetak,we do owe ABV and the NDA P-2.Yes,Musharrat did think that he could take advantage of an "old geezer" commando fashion,tried to obtain at Agra what he could not gain on the kargil battlefield too,but remember that the guile and cunning of old men is not to be underestimated.That's why the Chinese revere and respect their older members of the clan.It was however the US that prevented us from once again giving Pak a bloody nose on the battlefield,with the bogey of Pak using its nukes if in extremis.More than the "Pax Romana" it was the "Pax Americana " and a certain Clint,not Eastwood,who saved Sharif and Musharrat's bacon.Regrettably,because there is more debate and openness in the other parties,they appear to be less cohesive than the Congress,where the "Centre" always reigns supreme.The "Dynasty" is both a constitutional and an ideological monarchy! It is the mascot which the party takes into battle as did the Crusaders with the "true cross" of Jerusalem.See the way in which Maggie Alva has been cut to size.The ranks fall in line in fear of being axed.There are always enough Congress rebels to seize the moment and occupy a rung of the ladder when a leader falls!

Explaining why Malegaon happened-if the facts are what we hear in the media are true,is an easy task for opposition parties.The failure of combating repeated Islamist terror has brought this about,that citizens feel that they need to do something themselves to avenge such terror when the govt. appears to be doing nothing.More Malegaons are in the offing if the sorry situ continues.One must rmember that along with terror attacks,the number of casualties of uniformed police ,military and paramilitary forces ,victims of such Islamist terror has been dramatically increasing with each year.If those supposed to protect the nation from such terror feel that their hands are tied,or that the guilty are escaping punishment thanks to slow justice and votebank politics,it is no surprise that some individuals have been pushed to such extreme action.The latest Outlook mag has the issue devoted to the debate.


Philipji,
Again without offense and with due respect
We survived Agra in spite of ABV not because of him. I remain a great admirer of his not inconsiderable intellect. A true patriot.
Old men in a hurry sometimes stumble. Lets leave it at that.
Remember how the pakis bitterly blamed Advani?
Brajesh Mishra has been largely underestimated for his role in the affair, which I am beginning to suspect was not inconsiderable.
Manu
BRFite
Posts: 765
Joined: 28 May 2003 11:31

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Manu »

India Today Link
S K Sinha denies links with Malegaon accused

PTI
New Delhi, November 17, 2008

Describing charges of his links with Malegaon blast accused Swami Dayanand Pandey as "totally malicious and false", former Jammu and Kashmir governor Lt Gen (retd) S K Sinha on Monday said he was contemplating taking legal action against those making such accusations.

"This is totally malicious and false. And such careless things are being said on the eve of elections. So far as I am concerned, I do not know this man Pandey," Sinha told a news channel.

Former chief minister of Jammu and Kashmir Mufti Mohammad Sayeed had alleged that Pandey had links with Sinha and the matter should be investigated.

The former governor said he heard about Dayanand Pandey for the first time when his name appeared in newspapers about ten days ago.

"Some people have been saying that he had meals with me and that he stayed in Raj Bhawan. It is absolutely false," Sinha said.

The former army official said he was considering taking legal action against those making such allegations.

About the allegations, Sinha said, "It is as absurd as it would be for me to say that Mufti really used to go abroad repeatedly and he was contacting Osama-bin Laden. Such baseless and irresponsible things, leaves me surprised."
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10205
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by sum »

With the role of armymen in the Malegaon blast case, Abdullah says since Sinha was a high-ranking army person, he should thoroughly be investigated.
And these are supposed to be our potential ministers who could be heading the police apparatus or the army?? :roll: :-?
Really scary thought....
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34828
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by chetak »

sum wrote:
With the role of armymen in the Malegaon blast case, Abdullah says since Sinha was a high-ranking army person, he should thoroughly be investigated.
And these are supposed to be our potential ministers who could be heading the police apparatus or the army?? :roll: :-?
Really scary thought....
Add to this infamous list, dear Mufti Mohammad Sayeed.
Please don't forget that this corrosive character has been our home minister.
Nor his graceless daughter who is as gratingly jehadi as they come.
They may well be back in the central government come next elections for all you know.
Only in our mahan Bharat can such a wonderful thing happen.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16271
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by SwamyG »

Deleted.
Last edited by ramana on 17 Nov 2008 23:36, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Deleted as its unsubstantiated information. Ramana
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60233
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by ramana »

SwamyG, Is it fair to post propaganda in your innocence? Shouldnt a BRF member have some judgement when posting here? I suggest you delete by yourself.

ramana
Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13257
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by Lalmohan »

the legal process in India also reveals far too many case details ahead of the trial, leading to an almost immediate trial by media - and i suppose by neta. in most other countries, such details would be withheld until the trial or even later.

narco analysis has been discredited widely - its no better than ulta hanging in jail and lathi from pandu - you'll say anything they want to hear
enqyoob
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2658
Joined: 06 Jul 2008 20:25

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by enqyoob »

The charges are no longer leaks, but the Public Prosecutor seems to have been caught lying, and trying to cover up claiming "misquoting". IOW, he got the accused officer's remand extended by filing a false claim before the judge - that the RDX investigation was expected to lead to the Sabarmathi Express terrorist blasts.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60233
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by ramana »

What is the Bar Council doing about this? Or is it par for the course?

The Maharasthra PP in real life is worse than shown in Bollywood movies. The script writers I thought were stretchting things but in real life its worse than even their imaginations.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60233
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by ramana »

Henry Thoreau wrote an essay "Civil Disobediance" which inspred Mahtma Gandhi. It might be necessary to read this at this time.
enqyoob
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2658
Joined: 06 Jul 2008 20:25

Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Post by enqyoob »

The script writers I thought were stretchting things but in real life its worse than even their imaginations.


This is what has been bothering me too. Watch any Bollywood movie of 1970s etc. and you come away saying: "Director must be a Naxal, to portray the court, judges etc. THAT badly - they barely listen to the defendant, and accept blatant lies as evidence".

But these reports portray a judiciary that is, as ramana says, far worse. The proceedings are conducted in a language that the local people don't understand!!!!!! What kind of wacko system is this? The judge doesn't haul up the prosecutor and release the suspect when it becomes clear that the prosecution is lying to keep him in jail! Clearly there is a presumption of guilt. Shocking.

Makes you go back to the case of Zaheera Shaikh (??) the poor girl who was sent to jail for "perjury" after she protested about the "Affidavit" that Teesta Setalwad and gang wrote up in English and forced her to sign when she was completely traumatized, accusing several people who turned out to the only people who HELPED her survive the riots. When she protested to the Court that she couldn't understand the English document, and she started raising questions about Setalwad's financial supporters etc., they put Zaheer in jail and let Setalwad go scot-free.

Same thing happening here. Looks like the Prosecution's Affidavits may be written by Setalwad and her gang.
Post Reply