Terror Attacks in Mumbai

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Nov 2008 03:47

Thats good they will kill them all without any issues.

Somalis dont have that much time to execute like this.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 27 Nov 2008 03:47

KV Rao wrote:
ramana wrote:Yeah but why Mumbai? It would be in Hyderabad. So now that they have three detainees, we will know unless there is a cover up.
..
If I am not mistaken, Hyderabad has become something of an origination point for many terrorist attacks all over India.

I think KV may be onto something here. Its the same reason that Kolkata is unlikely to ever be targetted by jihadists. I suspect too many HUJI safehouses and contacts reside there. Wont want state attn on their nest, would they. Hyd too might be a hub, esp with large areas old city side where merging into the popn isnt that difficult.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 27 Nov 2008 03:48

Army storms Taj? IBN says so..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Nov 2008 03:49

Yogi_G wrote:
wamanrao wrote:Nariman House has hostages, but Times is reporting that they are all dead.

Apparently Israeli citizens and Indian Jews live here.
Seems to be well planned... perpetrators seem to have good connections and contacts....

I bet this will draw the ire of Israelis....India + Israel == TSP

it must be a sad day if we have to depend on the israelis to do what we should have done eons ago.
even after all this provocation all we can think of is israel the saviour, well ..........

p.s. please keep the emoticons off this thread.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 27 Nov 2008 03:50

CNN.COM (USA) pondering on how more could have been done w.r.t. hotel security where "westerners" stay.

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 27 Nov 2008 03:51

Three police officers, including chief of ATS Hemant Karkare, encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar and additional commissioner Ashok Kamte
succumbed to their injuries in Wednesday's terror attack.

From TOI
Rest in Peace.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 27 Nov 2008 03:51

vsudhir wrote:
KV Rao wrote: If I am not mistaken, Hyderabad has become something of an origination point for many terrorist attacks all over India.
I think KV may be onto something here. Its the same reason that Kolkata is unlikely to ever be targetted by jihadists. I suspect too many HUJI safehouses and contacts reside there. Wont want state attn on their nest, would they. Hyd too might be a hub, esp with large areas old city side where merging into the popn isnt that difficult.

This might be true if they can cover up their tracks perfectly...but in today's modern world of forensics, email and cell phone intercepts, a thorough investigation (Indians are very good at this...not perhaps in intelligence but post-incident analysis, yes, courts and prosecution is another story worlds apart) will ensure that one thing leads to another and eventually trace it down to the point of origin...My thoughts on this...

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 27 Nov 2008 03:52

As per Prabhu Chawla, as expected India Army is doing great job of rescue in a calm and professional way. They have rescued about 150 from the hotel.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Nov 2008 03:52

MSNBC states that the president of teh Taj Group sent a SMS stating that he is locked in his office and there are 200 guests in another room, including his wife. 6th floor is where the terrorists are holed up and the one that is on fire.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Nov 2008 03:53

sunilUpa wrote:Army storms Taj? IBN says so..

Rediff is reporting that Taj fire is contained and that the guests are being evacuated, moved to alternate locations, etc. I hope authorities will remember to debrief the guests and also watch out against terrorists escaping in the guise of 'guests.' From past experience, our law enforcement people can be very very naive sometimes.

Rediff report

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 27 Nov 2008 03:53

CNN IBN showing live images and gunshots being heard from the Oberoi hotel...

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 27 Nov 2008 03:54

CNN + Fox saying 'Deccan Mujahideen' most likely a cover up name. There are repeated mentions of the 'NYC Subway Alert' and reminders that there are likely affiliations b/w groups that operate against India and the western interests...

True, but who gave these guys the wake-up potion?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 27 Nov 2008 03:54

From ibnlive:

RAF in oberio.

4 gun shots heard in last few minutes.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Nov 2008 03:56

MSNBC states that Army is ready to storm the 6th floor. 6 pigs seem to be holed there.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Nov 2008 03:57

I wonder if these dregs turn out to be Pakiban scum. Strange language is quite interesting.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 27 Nov 2008 03:58

On NDTV live in bold.

9 terrorists arrested.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 27 Nov 2008 03:59

Yeah, if we have the sense to identify our real allies, and priorities for that matter.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 27 Nov 2008 03:59

It appears that Army and the authorities are not wasting anytime negotiating with the pigs (unmindful of the casualities, perhaps). Otherwise it will end up like the Kandhahar Hijack embarassing the government and the country at the end.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Nov 2008 03:59

ramana wrote:I wonder if these dregs turn out to be Pakiban scum. Strange language is quite interesting.

Possibly related to the group that attacked the Marriott in Pak? Not doing 'pak and india are both victims' mind you, but can't rule out same m.o pointing to same outfit.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 27 Nov 2008 04:01

kshirin wrote:Yeah, if we have the sense to identify our real allies, and priorities for that matter.

Sorry was referring to this:
"I bet this will draw the ire of Israelis....India + Israel == TSP"

Eshwar · Post by **Eshwar** » 27 Nov 2008 04:01

NDTV: Taj again on fire. In a different part of the building.

cygnet · Post by **cygnet** » 27 Nov 2008 04:02

"Army commandos enter theTaj Mahal hotel".
Please visit my blog-http://indiansecurityblog.blogspot.com/

No one in their wildest dreams could have imagined such a situation. There's no doubt who controls Mumbai now- and it certainly isn't the Government of Maharashtra. What makes this latest terror strike different is the fact that it involves dozens of terrorists launching simultaneous strikes across important locations in Mumbai.

If one thing is clear from what has just transpired (no it isn't the intelligence failure- that's a topic I shall touch upon in another post), it is the woeful lack of a coordinated response by law enforcement authorities in the city.

Though Maharashtra boasts of an Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS), it is ill equipped and unable to hold its own in what is essentially, a combat situation. Incredibly for an up and coming superpower, India lacks a a modern anti-terrorist strike force. Whats more, we lack special forces to tackle hostage scenarios of the type seen in the Oberoi and Taj hotels in Mumbai on that fateful night.

The US has SWAT teams in every major police department, the UK has its SAS, Germany has GSG-9 and Israel its much feared Sayeret (special forces) units. For some inexplicable reason, India's National Security Guards (NSG) are situated solely near Delhi meaning that they have to waste many precious hours attempting to reach a crisis situation. Why can't units of the NSG be placed in strategic locations near Mumbai, Bangalore, etc.?

Let's quickly look at the options available before the government in hostage scenarios/in cases of serious terrorist incidents:

POLICE
The regular police force in places like Mumbai is mostly equipped with lathis (long bamboo sticks) and .303 rifles from the Jurassic Age. The few automatic weapons available to Mumbai police are INSAS rifles and "sten guns". Some special units are equipped with AK-47s but officers having access to such equipment are in a minority when compared to the size of the force.

Mumbai's ATS and encounter squad would logically be the first to respond to any major terrorist incident like the one seen on 26 November. However, these men are simply not trained in urban warfare or clearing terrorist strong points. The police are completely clueless in dealing with hostage situations. Night vision equipment, bullet-proof vests and breaching equipment are unheard of. Small wonder then that the Mumbai police was absolutely gobsmacked by the events of 26 November.

To make matters worse, top notch police officers like Karkare, Kamte and Salsakar were martyred. This meant the entire command and control structure of the Mumbai police was plunged into chaos. Fortunately for Mumbai Rakesh Maria took charge and averted further disaster. It is thanks to highly experienced and competent people like Maria that some sort of structure was retained in the police response to the terror attacks.

ARMED FORCES
In India, when the chips are down, tradition dictates that we throw our hands in the air and plead for help from the army. Unfortunately, the army does not always possess the necessary expertise to deal with hostage situations and urban warfare. Sure, counter insurgeny is the army's forte in places like Kashmir and the North-East but expecting a unit from the Grenadiers to storm the Oberoi and Taj hotels successfully solely on the grounds that they are the nearest army units available in Mumbai is expecting too much of them.

SPECIAL FORCES
The NSG unfortunately arrived after most of the damage was done for reasons outlined earlier. One sensible decision was to press the elite Indian navy commandos (MARCOS) into action. The MARCOS and Navy barracks are literally metres away from the Taj hotel and this certainly speeded up the response time. If only we had dedicated special forces units to deal with such a situation, a number of casualties could have been averted.

In the end it seems left to a motley crew of police, reserve police force, rapid action force, NSG and MARCOS to deal with the hostage situations

India is the most bombed country in the world after Iraq. It's high time the country developed a comprehensive anti-terror mechanism. Creating mobile and specialised counter-terror units for every major police force would go a long way in alleviating the current hardships faced by law enforcement agencies in the country. Israel is a model in this regard and greater cooperation must be encouraged between India and the Jewish state.

As I write, the hostage drama unfolds. I hope this does not turn out to be another Golden Temple type scenario. The terrorists are no doubt well dug in and have plenty of supplies. It is now 4:00am Indian time and I hope the hostages are recovered and the terrorists neutralised within the next few hours. The longer this drags on the more unpredictable the situation becomes.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Nov 2008 04:02

SwamyG wrote:Folks, please stop equating 911 to these attacks. The attacks on India have been going on for ages now. Equating 911 to these kind of makes it appear that terrorism is something new to India. And our land has seen attacks and loot for centuries. Please resist the urge, and let us not redefine things from others point of view, at least until the situation returns to normalcy. Thanks.

swamyg, this is not on equating or equations, but about lessons. what america learnt after 911, and we are still learning.. and unable to prevent. america is successful in preventing.. and in fact on premption mode, and have ensured, such things will never happen again.. not that it is a fool proof plan.. but on comparision, onlee, we can say, we are million years behind to "prevent" these incidients to happen, that is proven. QED

of course, we can argue with many factors to it.. done that many times.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 27 Nov 2008 04:03

hi Kaps

I will be flying into my city (Bombay) on Fri night.

Check your email.

Jagan

Ping me a little later

Surya

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 27 Nov 2008 04:03

if we have the sense to identify our real allies

Another possibility is that some one is forcing us to chose our allies, instead of sitting on the fence.

Raja · Post by **Raja** » 27 Nov 2008 04:03

I am heartbroken.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 27 Nov 2008 04:04

KV Rao wrote:
ramana wrote:I wonder if these dregs turn out to be Pakiban scum. Strange language is quite interesting.
Possibly related to the group that attacked the Marriott in Pak? Not doing 'pak and india are both victims' mind you, but can't rule out same m.o pointing to same outfit.

Local Ummah Jehadi speedboat in close collusion with foreign mother-ship....

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Nov 2008 04:04

deshmukh saying union HM will arrive along with NSG in another hour.

ajay_hk · Post by **ajay_hk** » 27 Nov 2008 04:04

Three top cops die on duty

Chief of ATS Hemant KarkareKarkare, IPS officer of the 1982 batch, had served in RAW for nine years and was made the ATS chief in January this year. He had solved the serial bomb blasts in Thane, Vashi and Panvel.

Encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar, officer of the 1983 batch, had till recently killed around 75 dreaded criminals in police encounters. After being out of the spotlight for quite sometime, the encounter specialist was given the plum posting of heading the anti-extortion wing of the crime branch.

Additional Commissioner Ashok Kamte was the DCP, Zone 1, in Mumbai and was also the key officer in state police. He had also served as the commissioner of Solapur and was always known to be in the thick of action.

RIP Sirs; RIP to all the succumbed personel invoved - nation will remember your sacrifices.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 27 Nov 2008 04:07

CNN says 9 pigs detained. Hopefully that turns out to be true and it will help us a lot in the investigations.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 27 Nov 2008 04:09

rgsrini wrote:CNN says 9 pigs detained. Hopefully that turns out to be true and it will help us a lot in the investigations.

Tauba Tauba...MMS will lose his sleep tonight...uhhhh...tomorrow night....

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 27 Nov 2008 04:10

9 suspects, they may or may not be terrorists as per MH HM Patil

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 27 Nov 2008 04:10

rgsrini wrote:
if we have the sense to identify our real allies
Another possibility is that some one is forcing us to chose our allies, instead of sitting on the fence.

Once we get our priorities right the identification of allies will follow. We cannot sit on our hands yet again. Maybe the reason, to answer an older post, that no one has appeared on TV yet to reassure that things are under control, is because it cannot be acknowledged that they took their eye off the ball. Clealry after the horrenouds attacks starting in Kabul - nothing has been done to identify and defang the terror network. This is the grim and horrendous result.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 27 Nov 2008 04:12

Indian army arrives outside the trident hotel for rescue operations , in Mumbai , India, early 27 November 2008. At least 80 people were feared killed in a series of shootings and explosions by suspected terrorists late Wednesday in Mumbai, India's financial hub, police and news reports said. Police confirmed there had been several attacks by heavily armed gunmen. The Oberoi Trident and Taj hotels were among areas affected, as were cinema halls, a hospital, and Mumbai's main railway terminus. EPA/STR

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 27 Nov 2008 04:13

the terrorists arrived by boat : deshmukh.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 27 Nov 2008 04:13

^^^NO BPJ's

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 27 Nov 2008 04:14

ajay_hk wrote:Three top cops die on duty

Chief of ATS Hemant KarkareKarkare, IPS officer of the 1982 batch, had served in RAW for nine years and was made the ATS chief in January this year. He had solved the serial bomb blasts in Thane, Vashi and Panvel.

Encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar, officer of the 1983 batch, had till recently killed around 75 dreaded criminals in police encounters. After being out of the spotlight for quite sometime, the encounter specialist was given the plum posting of heading the anti-extortion wing of the crime branch.

Additional Commissioner Ashok Kamte was the DCP, Zone 1, in Mumbai and was also the key officer in state police. He had also served as the commissioner of Solapur and was always known to be in the thick of action.
RIP Sirs; RIP to all the succumbed personel invoved - nation will remember your sacrifices.

We lost a lot of information they were carrying in their heads. That too at the most inconvenient time. The list almost looks like a target list.

ajay_hk · Post by **ajay_hk** » 27 Nov 2008 04:14

NDTV

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 27 Nov 2008 04:14

CNN is interviewing a Canadian and she indicates that the staff in the hotel (I believe she was in Oberoi) were terrific. Apparently they stayed very calm even when the terrorists were physically present in the hotel and were helping out all the guests to safety.

I admire their sense of duty and courage and hope these heroes are not forgotten by us as well.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 27 Nov 2008 04:15

Acharya wrote:

Indian army arrives outside the trident hotel for rescue operations , in Mumbai , India, early 27 November 2008. At least 80 people were feared killed in a series of shootings and explosions by suspected terrorists late Wednesday in Mumbai, India's financial hub, police and news reports said. Police confirmed there had been several attacks by heavily armed gunmen. The Oberoi Trident and Taj hotels were among areas affected, as were cinema halls, a hospital, and Mumbai's main railway terminus. EPA/STR

Ahhhh..... the INSAS, a beauty aint she, in their hands....use those to "drill the brains" out of the Pigs.....

Operation ASAL UTTAR!!!!!