Terror Attacks in Mumbai

ASPuar
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby ASPuar » 27 Nov 2008 15:04

There needs to be an established response procedure to such attacks. Theyve become too familiar unfortunately, in all our metros.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby ASPuar » 27 Nov 2008 15:07

Lalmohan wrote:
amit wrote:
vramanx wrote:my wishful thinking -- he declares war with TSP and our cold start is put to real use. if IN chases this rogue vessel into TSP waters, then it is a sign of things to come.



I really hope - in fact fervently wish - that the ship is apprehended within TSP waters. And I also hope the Paki coastal Navy tries to intervene. That will force everybody's hand, including our politically correct political netas.


they won't intervene, these resources are expendable and deniable

there seem to be four different types of attack going on

1. random mass killings of Indians
2. hostage taking of Westerners
3. attacks against Jewish people
4. hits against key police figures

traditionally these types of attacks have been done by different but affiliated groups - this time seems to be a free for all. the al-q style is to issue general orders and let the local branch get on with it. there seems to be some of that, but also a anything goes boys type of order. the terrorists seem to be well trained. a ship landing is interesting but not sure its so practical - perhaps they were infiltrated into the city earlier - D company would have a role to play for sure

i can't help feeling that the recent turmoil in maharashtra with one thing after another was perhaps orchestrated or encouraged in some way ahead of this spectacular

anyway - we need to capture some of these scumbags alive - and they will need to sing


I would say, hitting:

1. General public - VT, and elsewhere.

2. Upper class targets, bringing terror to the upper classes.

2. Foreigners.

3. Jews in particular.

4. Hit on prominent police figures dont seem to have been planned, but an opportunistic shot. They could not have expected that the top cops in particular would run into them. No doubt theyd planned to take out the first responders at Cama Hosp. They happened to be some of the seniormost.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Dmurphy » 27 Nov 2008 15:08


Lalmohan
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Lalmohan » 27 Nov 2008 15:08

even during bluestar times there used to be cordons and exclusion zones and some semblance of control - totally missing in mumbai and delhi incidents with anyone wandering in and out. metro police need to sort this out. and the media need to get more responsible about what they report and how - in the UK during the irish problems - the editors were called in by the gov't and issued a code of conduct - by and larget they stuck to it

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby niran » 27 Nov 2008 15:09

agreed that Police are basically designed for hafta& harassment,

but they are our First line of defense, AFAIK NSG/Army e.t.c. do
not have any hotline for public to dial.

When the crunch came, the Dead officers did what they were trained to do,
this in spite of them equipped with hand guns. Therefore Please do not diss
Indian security forces.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby milindc » 27 Nov 2008 15:10

The scums are highly trained..

Cargo Pants / Jeans
Terrain Shoes
Final give away was holding of weapon in safety position.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Lalmohan » 27 Nov 2008 15:12

i am not dissing pandus and junior afsars - those poor buggers put themselves in harms way against jehadis despite being outgunned every day - its the overall situation management that needs to be improved

my real gripe is with the irresponsible media reporting

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby chandrasekaran » 27 Nov 2008 15:13

From rediff http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/27n ... t-ship.htm
"The Coast Guard is searching for the ship MV Alpha, a Vietnamese registered ship, off the coast of Mumbai. They are being assisted by Dornier aircraft and surface ships. The navy has enhanced patrol from the Mumbai coat upto Gujarat," said Captain Nambiar, the defence Public Relations Officer.


So it looks like the search is still on. Btw, why is a Dornier used for search ? Aren't there better options here ?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby James B » 27 Nov 2008 15:14

B. Raman's analysis/feelings.

India's Day Of Infamy

By B. Raman, Camp New Delhi

The war of civilisation between the Muslims and the infidels has begun in Indian territory.

2. So said the first statement issued in the name of the so-called Indian Mujahideen (IM) in November, 2007, after the three orchestrated explosions in three towns of Uttar Pradesh outside local courts.

3. We saw the latest round of this war in Mumbai on the night of November 26, 2008, as an unestimated number of terrorists----divided into small groups and wielding hand-held weapons and improvised explosive devices (IEDs)--- literally took control of Mumbai and targeted with frightening precision famous hotels preferred by the rich of the country and foreign tourists, railway stations, a hospital and many other places scattered across this business capital of India.

4. It is not just 9/11. It is not just Madrid, March, 2004. It is not just London, 2006.

5. It is --- I am using the present tense because the situation is still not under control at 5-30 AM despite the Army's assistance being sought--- an act of terrorism, the like of which the world has not seen before. Mind boggles as one tries to think and figure out how the terrorists could have planned and carried out terrorist strikes of such magnitude, territorial spread and ferocity without our intelligence and police having been able to get scent of it. Like what the Vietcong did during the Tet offensive.

6. The iceberg of jihadi terrorism to which I have been drawing attention since November, 2007, in article after article, in interview after interview, in discussion after discussion has struck not only Mumbai, but the Indian State.

7. The iceberg moved from UP to Jaipur. From Jaipur to Bangalore. From Bangalore to Ahmedabad and Surat. From there to Delhi. From Delhi to Assam. From Assam to Mumbai now-----despite the claims made by the Mumbai Police some weeks ago of having discovered and crushed a plot of the IM to carry out strikes in Mumbai.

8. The Government of Manmohan Singh reacted to the repeated warning signals of the moving iceberg since November 2007, in the same way as the Bush Administration reacted to reports about the plans of the Al Qaeda for an of aviation terrorism in the US; in the same way Megawati Sukarnoputri reacted to reports of the activities of the Jemmah Islamiyah; and in the same way Khalida Zia reacted to reports of the plans of the Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen .

9. Bovine. It just did no react. It was in a total denial mode. I wrote and said again and again ----hand over all the investigation about the IM to a central investigating agency for a co-ordinated investigation instead of their being investigated by the police in a piecemeal manner in different States ruled by different political parties. No reaction.

10. From a localised threat, jihadi terrorism has become a pan-Indian threat with a pan-Islamic ideology. Deal with it with a pan-Indian strategy, I said. No reaction.

11. The terrorists arrested some weeks ago in Mumbai, three of whom were IT experts well-placed in trans-national companies, pose a new dimension of the threat. Seek the help of the US, I said. No reaction.

12. I drew attention to an article of Hamid Mir, a journalist of Pakistan, which spoke of Indian Muslims going to Afghanistan to fight with the Taliban against the US and which also said that India is one of the routes being used by foreign jihadis going to Afghanistan. No reaction just as Rajiv Gandhi did not react to repeated wake-up calls from the then Afghan President Najibullah that Muslims from Kashmir were being trained by the Afghan Mujahideen.

13. In October, when I had come to Delhi for a seminar two diplomats from the EU countries sought an appointment with me for a discussion on the IM. They expressed their surprise and concern over the fact that the Indian intelligence and police seemed to know so little about the IM despite their having arrested many perpetrators of the previous blasts and interrogated them.

14. Is the IM the name of an organisation or of a movement? Is it one or many organisations in different States acting, like the International Islamic Front (IIF) of Osama bin Laden, as a united front-----autonomously where they can and unitedly where they should? Who constitute its command and control? Where are they? In India or outside? Nobody knows for certain.

15. I could not sleep the whole of last night. One question, which kept bothering me again and again was: how safe are our nuclear establishments and material?

16. Till now, we were greeting with glee Pakistan's incompetence in dealing with terrorism. We can no longer do so. We have become as clueless as Pakistan.

17. I wanted to write much more, but my mind doesn't work. As I watch on the TV what is happening in Mumbai, I shiver and sweat at the thought of what is waiting to happen tomorrow and where.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby krishnan » 27 Nov 2008 15:14

Searching for any other boats near by

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby RajeshA » 27 Nov 2008 15:16

This is war, and Dar-ul-Islam has to pay and pay with something that hurts them most - a loss of land.

Every time there is a terrorist attack in India, some of Pakistani Land or Bangladeshi Land should be gobbled up by India, after some cleaning, of course. That is the only thing which would shake these terrorists.

o If you kill them, it doesn't bother them. They simply say, there are others to take their place in Jihad.
o If you retaliate against other Muslims, as some sort of collective punishment, then they get their heart's desire as more are willing to join their ranks.
o If you attack, some Muslim religious place, then it becomes an attack on whole of Islam, and produces no dividends, only bad publicity, and they can rebuild it again.

There are in fact only three responses, that truly hurts Islam and Muslims.

1. As per the Indian-Pakistan Separation, all Indian Muslims are shunted to join their brothers in Pakistan. India is cleared of Dar-ul Islam influence and danger. The British Plan for the separation of India between Hindus and Muslims remains a potent legal weapon in Indian Armory, and can be used as a weapon of last resort.

2. All Indian Muslims are encouraged or coerced to adopt another form of Islam, which radically separates them from the Arabic roots of Islam, which acknowledges its basis in Indic culture and history. The Indian Muslims de-facto leave the Ummah, even as they remain in India.

3. Muslim Lands are taken away from Muslims around India.

I am in favor of 2) and 3).

If you want Al-Qaida and their ilk and brethren-in-arms to pay a price, then that price has to be extracted by pushing back their global agenda of Islam. Killing a few terrorists here and there, in the grand plan of things, causes only minuscule damage. One should not mix up tactics with strategy.

The one thing one does need is to make this strategy rhetoric-friendly. India and the civilized world lacks the rhetoric of justice and human rights for adopting this course. Those who are good with rhetoric, e.g. shiv may consider channelizing some of their talent in that direction.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby bart » 27 Nov 2008 15:17

Some high ranking Lashkar guy arrested in Mumbai. Details awaited.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Philip » 27 Nov 2008 15:18

Naval Marine commando out of danger

27 Nov 2008, 1347 hrs IST, ET Bureau

MUMBAI: Highly placed sources at the Western Naval Command, Mumbai have confirmed to the Economic Times that the injured Naval Marine Commando who Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai
was evacuated from the gunfight at the Taj Mahal Hotel is out of danger. According to these sources, the naval commando team has not yet suffered any fatalities.

The MARCOS as the Naval marine commandos are better known, were the first elite force to be called to the scene of the terror attack and two teams were assembled by midnight. Two 'prahaars' (a prahaar is a strike force of 8-9 marcos) entered the Taj Mahal hotel while another one and a half prahaara were sent to The Trident where they remained on standby and did not enter the hotel. The MARCOS were not challenged as they stormed the ground floor of the Taj but were met with heavy gunfire as they ascended onto the first and second floors.

Naval sources say they are unhappy with the chaotic situation at both hotels with civilian bystanders and television media crews severely impeding operations. According to these sources the state police was completely unprepared to provide even support functions in such a situation. For instance, people exiting the hotels were not properly screened thus making it likely that terrorists themselves may have abandoned their weapons and mingled with hostages who were using the various fire escapes.

Vice Admiral Jagjit Singh Bedi, C-in-C, Western Naval Command, refused to comment on the ongoing gun-battle except to say that "these terrorists are highly trained, heavily armed and have probably done a detailed recce of these locations in advance."

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby harik » 27 Nov 2008 15:19

Zee - instead of 30 dead at Taj , its 80

Terrorist were staying in room no 663 at Taj itself.

In questioning MV Alpha's crew right now.

Added later

HM croaking again on NDTV
Last edited by harik on 27 Nov 2008 15:22, edited 1 time in total.

ASPuar
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby ASPuar » 27 Nov 2008 15:21

Lalmohan wrote:i am not dissing pandus and junior afsars - those poor buggers put themselves in harms way against jehadis despite being outgunned every day - its the overall situation management that needs to be improved

my real gripe is with the irresponsible media reporting


Absolutely correct. One cannot fault the brave man who went ahead and did what he could under bad circumstances.


The following come to mind:


1. The system of response is flawed. A proper command chain must be built for terror attacks, originating perhaps in the NDMA, and with the military involved, because it has the experience required for these matters, and the training and equipment. Local C3I must be under the military in these matters, with civilian police playing support roles as required.

2. A general code of conduct needs to be developed for the media. Its reporting of the past few years has been encouraging divisive debate, unjustified 'resentments', and much more. Censorship must be imposed.

3. The media need not show ops as they are being conducted!

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby vdutta » 27 Nov 2008 15:24

Image

what gun?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Prasad » 27 Nov 2008 15:24

ASPuar wrote:GOC WestCom is an army commander. Might possibly be GoC Maharashtra and Guajrat area. So is he in overall charge of the ops?


Yes. They did report that the Army is taking over esp at Nariman house and that it was GoC WestCom.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 27 Nov 2008 15:26

IBN guessing that action in Taj is over. Claims police body language seems relaxed. News awaited. One commando is injured and has been taken in ambulance.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby vishal » 27 Nov 2008 15:29

IBN saying gun battle with terrorists underway on 4th floor.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby amit » 27 Nov 2008 15:30

harik wrote:Terrorist were staying in room no 663 at Taj itself.

In questioning MV Alpha's crew right now.


I wonder how the two relate? Did the terrorist get down from the boat, go to the hotel and checked in (with their guns and backpacks, not inviting suspicion?) and then went into action?

Or does it indicate two separate groups? One coming in earlier in civvies like regular guests checking in and doing the reconnoitering and then the second group comes in with the gear via boat?

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby amol.p » 27 Nov 2008 15:30

BREAKING NEWS

Vindyagiri holds the AMV Alpha some where on high seas. Indian officials on the ship and introgation is on...as per IBN LIVE

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby R Vaidya » 27 Nov 2008 15:31

Yesterday [26-11-08] in NDTV srinivasan Jain was interviewing Kerkare --ATs chief-- To-day morning Vasu[ srinivasan Jain] again stressed the point that --more than 90 % of resources and time of ATS was spent on Malegoan issue in the last two months--

This Mumbai war would have been planned at least two months before--
Who pinned our ATs to a one point agenda? Who is behind this war from Indian side--
That is THE issue
rvaidya

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby vdutta » 27 Nov 2008 15:32

Image
lets not forget these fine guys who did your job in the middle of gunshots and exploding grenades.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby sampat » 27 Nov 2008 15:33

How is congress going to save afzal now..questions are ´being asked.

Rakesh Jhunjhunwala: atleast punish those who have been found guilty by supreme court.

http://www.in.com/active18/watchnow/watchvideo_mc.php?autono=368345

Sonia and MMS in mumbai by 5PM IBN live
Taj encounter finished--Speculation by IBN live

http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/video_streaming.php

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby milindc » 27 Nov 2008 15:34

Gen Hooda , Maharastra GoC is in charge

Says NSG will lead the assault since they are trained for terrorist ops
Last edited by milindc on 27 Nov 2008 15:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Dmurphy » 27 Nov 2008 15:38

sampat wrote:Taj encounter finished--Speculation by IBN live
No matter how long it takes, i dont wanna hear "One terrorist has escaped into the darkness" as it generally happens in J&K.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Sai » 27 Nov 2008 15:40

Thank you all for the news updates. Please keep reporting.

I don't watch any of our dirtbag TV channels as a matter of principle. I don't visit their websites. I don't give them traffic and thus I don't give them my business, that's the idea.

At times like this though, without liveblogging on BR, I'd have been compelled to go to some slimy, sleazy website like ibnlive.com.

Thanks again.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 27 Nov 2008 15:40

IBN showing live pics of families standing on the balconies in Taj. They have been asked to stay inside for safety reasons. IBN claims one Ghafoor, the man in charge at Taj, has left to Nariman House where another encounter is on.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Prasad » 27 Nov 2008 15:40

Just now on NDTV, a naval official (sorry didn't get who that was) showed big photographs of what the marcos siezed when they went in. An airbag containing six or more spare ak magazines that were taped together in twos, grenades, credit cards and almonds.

That does hint that they were clearly here for a long haul and not a hit-n-run type of operation.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby V_Raman » 27 Nov 2008 15:41

again my wish list for actions to start with

resurrect terror list given to TSP and attach a deadline for it with consequences

abrogate article 370, remove special status for J&K, and reassert that POK is indian land

implement POTA like act immediately

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 27 Nov 2008 15:41

One George Koshy, IBN correspondent at Taj is guessing that the terrorists holed up in Taj have fled to the Nariman House which is a 5 min walk. Speculation, not confirmed. Take it for what its worth
Last edited by Stan_Savljevic on 27 Nov 2008 15:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby James B » 27 Nov 2008 15:42

Flash News

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to address the nation at 4.30 pm in the wake of terror attacks in Mumbai

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby fanne » 27 Nov 2008 15:42

So this is where the news of Let chief recieving bullet proof vehicle from abroad (financed by current TSP govt) comes in. They secured him before the attack.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 27 Nov 2008 15:44

Police have not confirmed or denied any of the IBN's speculations. Hassan Ghafoor (Kapoor), the man-in-charge has been seen leaving for Nariman House though.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby sampat » 27 Nov 2008 15:46

BTW where is Van-manush Raj Thackeray?

IBN is speculating a lot, atleast better then barkha who pushes speculations as a matter of fact.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Philip » 27 Nov 2008 15:46

Marcos being asked to come back to assist the NSG according to V.Adm.Bedi (live on TV) C-in-C W.Command.The explosives captured show grenades,stun grenades,magazines,credit cards,"almonds" for sustenance for a long operation,which shows how meticulously planned this operation was.No terror logistic boat so far has been found.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby parshuram » 27 Nov 2008 15:46

IBNLIVE FLASH : Commandos prepare for final assault in Taj

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby klein » 27 Nov 2008 15:47

P.Amol where did you get the news that the Alpha has been caught ? IBN is not announcing anything ...

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby James B » 27 Nov 2008 15:47

sampat wrote:BTW where is Van-manush Raj Thackeray?

IBN is speculating a lot, atleast better then barkha who pushes speculations as a matter of fact.


IBN mostly reporting from ground not like NDTV which spinning all kind of theories.

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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai

Postby Dmurphy » 27 Nov 2008 15:47

Stan_Savljevic wrote:One George Koshy, IBN correspondent at Taj is guessing that the terrorists holed up in Taj have fled to the Nariman House which is a 5 min walk. Speculation, not confirmed. Take it for what its worth
WTF, is it so easy to walk/run off to another site? Why? Hasn't the hotel been cordoned off from all sides??


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