Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

[Pranay]

The last thing that is needed now in India are communal riots anywhere. Indians are united in the face of this crisis.

It would be very sad if indeed there were individuals that hoisted Pakistani flags in India anywhere. Those individuals need to be singled out and arrested. Whole communities should never be victimized for the actions of a few idiots.

India's focus should be to eliminate this Jihadi cancer coming out of Pakistan/Bangladesh. A scalpel needs to be applied, not slash and burn tactics.

These two countries need to be given a 24 hour deadline to hand over to India a list of these Jihadi leaders and their ISI mentors, failing which, Special Ops personnel need to be used to eliminate the top rung of these Jihadi outfits and also their ISI mentors.

If India's actions come in the way of the calculations of other countries, so be it.

Action should speak!!! No more whining!!

[p_saggu]

Rehyphenation with Pakistan was always on the cards, GWB did a temporary Taquiya because India's help was needed to needle pakistan to be more co-operative and RAW's on the ground assets were required for the GOAT hunt. Ultimately Pakistan's usefulness is fully known to both the US and to Pakistan itself - everytime Pakistan uses the term "Pakistan's strategic location", they are referring to their being at the juncture of Afghanistan (Where the GOAT Hunt is on), Iran (where the US would like to destroy the nuke plants) and India (Where the west needs a nation to needle a rising power).

Rehyphenation occurs everytime a newspresenter says that the two nations have fought three wars, conducted tit for tat nuclear weapons tests, etc.

So I would not worry unduely about this.
The world will support us if we ACT - even lash out in anger. BUT WE MUST ACT FIRST.
The israelis put it very plainly - No one can help India if India can't deal with this herself.

[Dilbu]

I sincerely hope this is the turning point. Let the all party chai-biskoot session come to a decision over a firm TSP policy to be continued by all parties coming to power till we get the desired results. Anyone who goes lax on TSP should face the wrath of the electorate.

Right! By a war mongering posture we will only succeed in rehyphenating with them. We cannot afford to talk in different voices. We need consistency in our approach. Getting the Le T head and Dawood will be a BIG achievement and blow. We also must instead of throwing blame learn and close loopholes from this incident.

Also if you notice now there are a lot of mainstream outlets and lots of people talking on dismembering Pakistan. If we clearly demonstrate that Pakistan is unable and unwilling to handover Dawood/ Le T heads the world will intrinsically realize this is not a sustainable nation state in the normal/ peaceful sense of the word. Dismembering it will imply denuking it essentially. Talibunnies taking over at this juncture will imply an emergency denuking of the State urgently by US/ India/ Israel.

The time has come for Pakistan to walk the talk and India to demand it from them in as humiliating a manner as possible.

Harbansji but TSP is not going to roll over and dismember itself. Nor are they going to hand over the scum bags without their balls being squeezed. All the methods you mentioned applies only to TSP govt. The diplomatic pressures are not going to affect the ISI-army-mullah group who are behind these attacks. As seen in the case of sending ISI chief to India, this group is capable of overriding the government decisions and even controlling its decisions. You can talk diplomacy only to the government, not to jihadis. Diplomacy would be effective only if Baki govt is in complete control of TSP and not when Jihadis get to have a say in the country's affairs That is why we need some options other than diplomacy when we deal with TSP. Pressure will have to be applied both ways with chai-biskoot and Insas. Opting for only one option will not work. JMT.

[Muppalla]

Hanging afzal at this stage is a catch-22 for the UPA.

If you hang, question will be 'why not before? This is poll stunt onlee'. If you don't hang, well afzal will make NDA poll posters everywhere onlee.

I can't still understand the reluctance to hang afzal after all that has happened over the past 2 yrs with so many terror attacks. Is the INC high command really that removed from reality and the pulse of the people?

incidentally, UPA has the guts to hang patil(albeit politically but this amounts to a public execution for a politico) but not afzal.
says something about their mentality.

There is a lot of heartburn going on in usual TV channels (NDTV, IBN specifically). Until now BJP is divisive. When BJP talks about anti-terror mechanism/POTA etc., it was all divisive for the secular media and intellectuals. Now they are see the mood of nation that is baying for action and no-talk. At this time the TV channels have to change their tone and the way they easily change their tone is attacking the "entire political class". This way they can still server their congress masters by not attacking the government and its ruling party INC.

For the first time terrorists attacked the elite(cowards/hypocrytes) of India which is more fashionable in talking secularism and for them BJP-intellectuals are target practice. They are scrambling for words when the un-fashionable Modi/BJP intellectuals are vidincated. The best way out is to take on all the political class( the fashion is rising and it is rising very fast).

BTW hanging Patil is give some face saving to themselves. I differ from most here and I feel pity for him as he is/was a puppet always and he was not even able to choose his own beuracrats. Rajmata is always everywhere.

[Vivek K]

Hello,

I have been a long time guest on this board for several years and I wish to express my deepest sympathies to the families of the fallen and to all of India.

India has shown the world the bravery, dignity, and courage of her people. Your forces and even the hotels' staff have shown nothing but valor in your time of crisis. Somthing that the TSP lacks. This will be their destruction, for all they have is hate.

Today and tomorrow I shall stand with India in the face of these barbarians. Jai Hindi!

( MODS please forgive me for being off topic.)

Patrick, thank you for your sympathy and kind words.

[Rahul M]

BTW hanging Patil is give some face saving to themselves. I differ from most here and I feel pity for him as he is/was a puppet always and he was not even able to choose his own beuracrats. Rajmata is always everywhere.

of course. he is a convenient scapegoat.

[samuel.chandra]

Terror attacks basically have caused a re-hyphenation. The only way to de-hyphenate is to give a decisive military blow to TSP to show the world where TSP belongs. If we want to get Dawood and Let head, aim higher... then they will deliver. They are waiting to see how serious we are. They will only deliver Dawood/Azhar if we are serious about the jhapad. Besides, i am not sure if these two coolies are worth the effort. TSP needs to feel the pain. ISI needs to feel the pain. Thats the only solution.

I sincerely hope this is the turning point. Let the all party chai-biskoot session come to a decision over a firm TSP policy to be continued by all parties coming to power till we get the desired results. Anyone who goes lax on TSP should face the wrath of the electorate.

Right! By a war mongering posture we will only succeed in rehyphenating with them. We cannot afford to talk in different voices. We need consistency in our approach. Getting the Le T head and Dawood will be a BIG achievement and blow. We also must instead of throwing blame learn and close loopholes from this incident.

Also if you notice now there are a lot of mainstream outlets and lots of people talking on dismembering Pakistan. If we clearly demonstrate that Pakistan is unable and unwilling to handover Dawood/ Le T heads the world will intrinsically realize this is not a sustainable nation state in the normal/ peaceful sense of the word. Dismembering it will imply denuking it essentially. Talibunnies taking over at this juncture will imply an emergency denuking of the State urgently by US/ India/ Israel.

The time has come for Pakistan to walk the talk and India to demand it from them in as humiliating a manner as possible.

[sum]

BTW hanging Patil is give some face saving to themselves. I differ from most here and I feel pity for him as he is/was a puppet always and he was not even able to choose his own beuracrats. Rajmata is always everywhere.

even that was being given the spin as "resigning on moral grounds" while he was actually booted out since rajmata wished so. Only Times Now reported that there was no moral-woral business and it was only Rajmata who caused it.

[Ujjal]

I hope the dead pigs are paraded within a day or two before the certain fringe group and the breathing pigs start calling it as a "false-flag" operation by RAW and Mossad.

[harbans]

For those who are advocating an all out War, can they elaborate on what that will achieve? Or how that will solve the terrorist problem for India? Remember India has way too many WKK types Remember 1971, despite 95000 POWS we did'nt bother a War crimes tribunal.

Remember when we cannot control Azamgarh we can never control any city in Pakistan. We are talking war against a paranoid, highly mentally unstable nation with Nukes. Governments change in India when onion prices move up by a few rupees. How do you think that pro war sentiment will be sustained in case of a nuke attack on India?

Idea is to do something doable and try and achieve it. I'm not leaving out hard options and that must be conveyed to the Paki GOV. If they cannot handover Dawood and Le T heads then we certainly can consider military or intelligence options to take those targets out.

Big goals are achieved only by taking small scalable steps. We have to start taking them wrt TSP one at a time.

[p_saggu]

WRT Dawood and Maulana Masood Azhar and Hafiz Muhammad Sayeed.
When the heat really - I mean REALLY - comes on Pakistan wrt these worthies,
1. Dawood will suddenly die of Old age or of a Heart Attack
2. The other two will suddenly disappear, die in a road accident.

They will NOT be handed over to any one. Same goes for any of the high value worthies in the GOAT Hunt and the numerous AQ No 3's.

The only way to respond to Pakistan's ISI and its Armed Forces is a loss of H&D wrt India. Period.
Do it via a full scale war or by limited Indian attacks on Pakistani owned territory now, or via big dhamakas within Pakistan is the same thing - and at the same time, destroy Pakistan's newly acquired shiny defence toys which it has acquired after shedding so much sweat and blood and which cause it so much pride.

[amitmas]

Harbans Couldnt agree with you more but at times like these one keeps wondering what should be done. I guess someone I heard made a statement on one of the channels that the city has been rap... and what do we do. I know a all out war does not or rather might not serve the objectives but what would?

[amar_]

Guys,
This is not the time to discuss religion \ movies etc. Doing this and diluting the discussion would only end up with more attacks in the future. I seriously doubt if stopping rail and air links is going to help in any way. I do not think the ISI\PA cares abt these. Mobilizing the troops is going to put pressure on their economy and they will beg some from the IMF and\or Fuk#rS of Pakistan. Mo Fu paki politicians say that their govt wasnt responsible, ignoring the fact that ISI created LET. If we show proof that these bast*d*s came from pakistan, zardari may try to show some proof indicating that they closed the shops and ISI will open them on the next street.

Only way to stop these attacks is to act tough. We got to hit them and hit them hard. We also need to clean up our country and get rid of scum.

[amitmas]

IMHO a small scalable step would be to identify what can be done to help accelarate Pakistan to Implode. That way we get to our objectives without too much of pain.

[Dilbu]

Atleast terror camps in BD should be taken out, goddamn it.

[svinayak]

Ramana, Singha and SSridhar>
This is a qustion to you.

On the TSP thread, there was a theory that in a war with India, Pakistan will unite as India is a common enemy.
Does this hold true even now?

Yes. A military state defines itself like that. That is the reason TSP state constantly needs war with external foes to get the sense of a nation

[p_saggu]

A question to senior members S.Sridhar, Acharya-ji

Was Omar Sheik ever an LET member?


He wired the money to Mohammad Atta didn't he?

[Shreeman]

For those who are advocating an all out War, ...

Days of conventional wars are long gone. Only in India, and Korea, and the like do you find people still digging trenches to defend. There is a long list of advantages of using the "small" stick you have, rather than holding out until the sapling becomes a tree. For one, it expands your adversary's resources. Its important to burn $10b or so a year on both sides if you want to see any results.

[svinayak]

A question to senior members S.Sridhar, Acharya-ji

Was Omar Sheik ever an LET member?


He wired the money to Mohammad Atta didn't he?

He was an ISI asset. He worked with LeT and Jaish Mohammed groups

Other indications show that he was also a western intelligence operative UK/USA

[Tilak]

Folks,

First of all let me congratulate the Army and the NSG for a getting the job done. However i have some serious issues by the way this whole op was conducted. I cant help but point out the glaring lack of what some would call lack of 'common sense'. I am not claiming to be an oracle who knows all. But I have some questions that are lingering in my mind, and probably some might have already been answered already.. however..

1) Why did the operation take so long ?? especially the second phase at the Taj ?, given that the motive was clearly know when, CST was sprayed earlier, the Nariman house out of all was under seige.

a) were there high value targets (read about EU ministers) and desi bigwigs, and lot of political pressure from foreign govts to save them at all costs. Please tell me that was the only reason..

b) Was anybody conducting the op monitoring the Live TV feed, as it was apparent the scum were repeatedly peeping through the curtains from the same position for atleast 45-50 mins. I mean how difficult was it to identify them and position a sniper nest, if they weren't sure they should have atleast made an announcement letting their intentions known.

2) what the hell is the following supposed to mean ? this was on live TV, and what kind of an approach is this.

When asked if the commandos attempted to capture them alive at that stage, he replied: "Unko bachana kaun chahega (Who will want to save them)?"

3) bollywoodization of the whole op by the media m*******, adding a whole another dimension to it. Absolute lack of crowd control.. as if nobody was in charge securing the outer perimeter.

4) Was rapelling, ever considered during the Nariman House seige and others, at what point did they know the hostages were executed?. Even if one piglet was hiding in some other location, it would have been a virtual turkey shoot..

more later...

[Baljeet]

For those who are advocating an all out War, can they elaborate on what that will achieve? Or how that will solve the terrorist problem for India? Remember India has way too many WKK types Remember 1971, despite 95000 POWS we did'nt bother a War crimes tribunal.

Remember when we cannot control Azamgarh we can never control any city in Pakistan. We are talking war against a paranoid, highly mentally unstable nation with Nukes. Governments change in India when onion prices move up by a few rupees. How do you think that pro war sentiment will be sustained in case of a nuke attack on India?

Idea is to do something doable and try and achieve it. I'm not leaving out hard options and that must be conveyed to the Paki GOV. If they cannot handover Dawood and Le T heads then we certainly can consider military or intelligence options to take those targets out.

Big goals are achieved only by taking small scalable steps. We have to start taking them wrt TSP one at a time.

Harbans
I agree the need of the hour is not an overt war but a covert war. This is what I suggest based on the fact we have leadership with Brass B@lls not some disgraceful monkey.
1. Rise inflation in pakistan by circulating fake paki currency and buying whatever gold is in pakistan
2. Attain position of power on IMF, World Bank, other financial instituitions start putting road blocks to their loan requests, unagreeable conditions on the financial rescue package.
3. Take politics out of RAW, IB and other intel units make them as professional as they were before, start bombing their trains, buses, elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, colleges.
4. Start sinking their trading ships near karachi not in high seas, once enough are sunk they will create natural blockade of their harbors.
5. Start Choking water supplies to pakistan. Open flood gates in the name of cleaning reservoirs of silt, debris etc. Stop the flow of water because we need to fill up reservoirs to right level before water can be released.
6. Build pressure on border with constant firing and always a threat of attack they divert troops from Afghan border. This will lead to increased attacks on Unkil and Auntie's forces, hence more retialiatory attacks, their supply lines getting attacked.tail chasing the dog or dog chasing the tail.
7. Launch covert and overt operations on Bangladesh. Lets agree to ULFA, MNF, TNF demands that all bangladeshi must be removed from eastern states regardless of their tenure. Let us create some groups in eastern states showing videos of atrocities committed against people of eastern states, unleash the fire on bangla.

[Surya]

Saw Simi and her advocacy of GWB policies -

well at least its a lot better than the bloody amir khans.

As for that psycho who shouted "Pakistan is not the enemy " - wonder why he was not ejected or allowed to be challenged

[bhargava]

Times Now showing snippets from Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan's house. It seems Kerala CM had gone to condone the loss. Major Sandeep's father got very angry, said something like 'out of here you dogs' on their face and shut the door.

[SandeepA]

Times Now showing snippets from Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan's house. It seems Kerala CM had gone to condone the loss. Major Sandeep's father got very angry, said something like 'out of here you dogs' on their face and shut the door.

On Sandeep Unnikrishnan's background (Source: Wikipedia)

He hails from a family settled in Bangalore that had migrated from Cheruvannur - Kozhikode district, Kerala. He was the only son of retired ISRO officer Mr. K. Unnikrishnan and Mrs. Dhanalakshmi.

[putnanja]

deleted ...

[Dilbu]

Times Now showing snippets from Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan's house. It seems Kerala CM had gone to condone the loss. Major Sandeep's father got very angry, said something like 'out of here you dogs' on their face and shut the door.

On Sandeep Unnikrishnan's background (Source: Wikipedia)

He hails from a family settled in Bangalore that had migrated from Cheruvannur - Kozhikode district, Kerala. He was the only son of retired ISRO officer Mr. K. Unnikrishnan and Mrs. Dhanalakshmi.

Kerala govt had not sent even a representative to the Major's funeral. They decided to go hastily once media and people satrted questioning them on this. My blood boiled when Mr. Kodiyeri Balakrishnan said "we will go tomorrow" with a smile on TV. If they were kicked out like dogs, it serves them fine.

[putnanja]

Pak. involvement in Mumbai attacks unlikely: Farooq

Pak. involvement in Mumbai attacks unlikely: Farooq
Srinagar (PTI): National Conference patron Farooq Abdullah on Sunday said Pakistan is not likely to be involved in the recent terror attack in Mumbai as it was itself facing the menace of terrorism.

"Pakistan is itself faced with the menace of terrorism and is fighting for its survival. Involvement of Pakistan in Mumbai attacks is not understandable," he said while strongly condemning the terror strike in the country.

Abdullah also promised to take action against corrupt elements and those involved in the infamous sex scandals of 2006 if voted to power in the ongoing Jammu and Kashmir Assembly elections.

"The doomsday for corrupt elements and those involved in sex scandals is nearing. We will take action against the corrupt elements and those involved in sex scandals if voted to power," Abdullah said.

Abdullah, the Chief Ministerial candidate of National Conference, said his party laid the foundation for the Accountability Commission but the formation of coalition government in 2002 rendered it inactive.

"We had laid the foundation for accountability commission but it was rendered inactive by the coalition government as 22 of its ministers were involved (in corruption). We will revive the accountability commission after returning to power," he said.

[putnanja]

'No link between Mumbai, Sir Creek talks suspension'

'No link between Mumbai, Sir Creek talks suspension'
New Delhi (IANS): India has denied any link between the postponement of talks over the Sir Creek dispute and the Mumbai terror attacks and said there was also no plan to suspend the ceasefire along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir.

“The talks on Sir Creek were postponed a week ago, much before the Mumbai terror,” external affairs ministry spokesperson Vishnu Prakash told IANS.

The talks on Sir Creek, a disputed strip of water in the Rann of Kutch marshlands, were scheduled to be held in New Delhi on December 2.

Prakash also said that talks on the Chenab water row are on course and will take place in Islamabad on Monday. India's Indus Water Commissioner left for Islamabad late Saturday.

The spokesperson also denied reports of India suspending the five-year-old ceasefire along the LoC, which divides Jammu and Kashmir between the two countries.

Prakash was reacting to stories doing the rounds in the Pakistani media that suggested that the ongoing composite dialogue between India and Pakistan had been indefinitely postponed.

“These stories are parts of Pakistan’s plan to create an impression that India is acting impulsively and derailing the talks whereas Pakistan was trying to keep the peace process on course,” a government official said.

[putnanja]

Not enough explosives with terrorists to blow up Taj: J.K. Dutt

Not enough explosives with terrorists to blow up Taj: J.K. Dutt
New Delhi (PTI): The terrorists did not appear to have plans to blow up the Taj heritage hotel as they lacked enough explosives for it, Director General NSG J K Dutt said here on Sunday.

The amount of explosives recovered from them does not indicate that they could bring down the building, he told reporters after arriving from Mumbai.

During the "Operation Cyclone" carried out in the Taj hotel, the NSG faced difficulties due to the century-old architecture of the building which has long connecting passages, spiral staircases and rooms with high ceilings.

Dutt said that terrorists were "quite conversant with locations" and kept moving from one place to another to avoid direct encounter with the commandos.

The NSG did not know where "one passage will lead" thus posing a hurdle in the operations.

The terrorists knew the places very well and preferred big rooms with high ceilings and single exit and entry doors to take positions. "They avoided any small rooms or kitchens where they could be easily trapped by us," he said.

The terrorists were setting the upholstery on fire to distract the commandos so that they could change their positions.

"The moment a fire was started, fire brigades were called in and we paused shooting. They took advantage of this situation and changed their positions. We came to know about their tactics. Despite fire, we entered one of the rooms and shot one of the terrorists who fell out of the window which was even caught on camera," he said.

[saumitra_j]

Tilak,

I am no expert but let me try to answer this one for you:

1) Why did the operation take so long ?? especially the second phase at the Taj ?, given that the motive was clearly know when, CST was sprayed earlier, the Nariman house out of all was under seige.

The people had to clear up the place room by room, floor by floor. The did not have any layouts. IN the Taj, things were further complicated by the fact that the rooms were interlinked - which allowed the terrorists to move around and change positons. The terrorists were using two tactics: They had live hostages (about 25 of em) and were using hand grenades - all of which prevented the NSG from going for all out. The NSG knew all along that there won't be negotiations but the fact that they still had hostages was a major consideration.

In so far as Nariman House is concerned, I have grown up in that area and I can tell you that the biggest hindrance for the NSG would have been collateral damage. The place is packed with buildings/structures and any attempt at going all guns blazing without proper planning would have resulted in severe damage and possibly injuries/deaths to locals. The NSG knew all along that the 5 hostages at Nariman house were killed. The operation in that sense was simple - to neutralize the terrorist but larger considerations of collateral damage prevented them from launching an operation immediately.

Also don't worry about the rather sarcastic comment by the NSG trooper - he gave an emotional answer but I am sure NSG would have tried to capture the piglets alive but piglets being the Pakis that they were decided to fight till finish....

Just my 2c...

PS: RApelling was done to land the commandos at Nariman House - was not possible at the Taj and the Oberoi

[putnanja]

Shivraj Patil should have resigned earlier: Lalu

Shivraj Patil should have resigned earlier: Lalu
New Delhi (IANS): Railway Minister Lalu Prasad on Sunday said Shivraj Patil's resignation as home minister over the Mumbai terrorist attack came "very late."

“He offered his resignation very late. Whatever is happening in the country is our priority... the ministerial post doesn't matter,” the Rashtriya Janata Dal (RJD) chief told reporters in New Delhi after Patil submitted his resignation.

At least 183 people, including 22 foreign nationals, were killed in the terror attacks in India's financial capital since Wednesday night.

Patil offered to resign after a Congress Working Committee (CWC) meet late Saturday night. His resignation was accepted and Finance Minister P. Chidambaram took over the charge of the Home Ministry Sunday afternoon.

[bhargava]

Kerala govt had not sent even a representative to the Major's funeral. They decided to go hastily once media and people satrted questioning them on this. My blood boiled when Mr. Kodiyeri Balakrishnan said "we will go tomorrow" with a smile on TV. If they were kicked out like dogs, it serves them fine.

That irritating smile was visible today also when he said 'He is in sorrow' when asked about the welcome given by Mr K. Unnikrishnan. What is wrong with him ?

[Gerard]

article in UK's Daily Mail

[putnanja]

Menon to meet Obama team in US Monday

It was meant to be a familiarisation trip with the incoming administration of US president-elect Barack Obama. But in the wake of the Mumbai terror attacks, terrorism will dominate the talks of Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon with key figures of the transition team in the US Monday.

Menon leaves on a two-day visit to Washington Sunday night - India's first high-level contact with Obama's transition team. Menon will be in Washington for a couple of days, official sources told IANS.

Menon is likely to meet influential figures in the transition team that includes Wendy Sherman, the co-chair of the State Department's Agency Review Team, which is tasked with preparing policy and personnel for the soon-to-be-named secretaries.

He is also expected to meet Under-Secretary of State for Political Affairs William Burns, who served as Washington's chief interlocutor during the last lap of the nuclear deal, official sources said.

Burns is likely to acquire an important position in the foreign policy establishment in the Obama presidency.

In the wake of the Mumbai terror attacks, strengthening counter-terrorism cooperation between India and the US is expected to top the agenda.

Obama was quick to react to the Nov 26 Mumbai terror attacks that killed 183 people, including six Americans and nine Israelis. Obama was also in constant touch with the Bush administration over latest updates on the audacious Mumbai terror strikes.

Obama called Prime Minister Manmohan Singh Friday night to offer condolences and underlined his support for India in the fight against terror.

Obama, who is monitoring the situation from his home in Chicago, has praised India's resilience, saying, "These terrorists who targeted innocent civilians will not defeat India's great democracy, nor shake the will of a global coalition to defeat them."

"The United States must stand with India and all nations and people who are committed to destroying terrorist networks, and defeating their hate-filled ideology," he added.

FBI agents are reported to be on their way to India.

Obama has articulated his new approach to the war on terror that involves ending violence and instability in Afghanistan by getting Pakistan to focus on its western borders. Obama's plan may also include an activist US role in the resolution of the Kashmir dispute so that Pakistan can single-mindedly focus on militants fomenting violence in Afghanistan. This approach has caused some disquiet in India.

In an interview ahead of his election as the 44th President of the US, Obama had indicated his desire to appoint a special envoy on Kashmir that caused much unease in New Delhi.

India has made it clear many a time that Kashmir is a bilateral issue that is being discussed by India and Pakistan in the framework of the composite dialogue and has objected to any perceived third-party intervention. Menon is likely to reinforce this view when he meets key figures associated with the foreign policy in the Obama team.

India is optimistic about sustaining the momentum of its relations with the US that were revolutionised by a landmark nuclear deal under the George Bush presidency.

[parsuram]

I will repeat what I have suggested as the quickest, easiest, safesest, and the most effective response: Send teams of sharpshooters in Kashmir with target lists. Start killing 5-10 pro paki, terror sympathising kashmiri scum every day. We know who they are, where they live. Maintain total deniability. Send investigative teams to cover up. Continue until all terror activity stops. It will take upwards of 100,000 of the pigs for a totally successful outcome, imo. I would even have Indian jawans marry widows, thus increasing hindu/sikh population through marriage/conversion in the valley. This needs to be done.

[putnanja]

'Indians operated as if there were no hostages'

Jerusalem : Israeli counter-terrorism experts have slammed the way India handled the hostage crisis in Mumbai, especially at Nariman House where Jewish people were taken as captive, saying the "colossal failure of intelligence" and slow operation meant there was "no chance" of rescue.

Acknowledging that Israel has never experienced a coordinated attack of such magnitude, the experts said India failed to contain the attacks and raided Nariman House too ‘lackadaisically’.

Eight Israeli hostages at Nariman House were found dead by commandos after they stormed the building sieged by terrorists.

"When terrorists attack more than seven sites simultaneously, it's very hard to handle. However, this difficulty was compounded by the lack of prior intelligence, which is the colossal failure in this story. This was an organisation in which dozens of people were surely involved," Maj. Gen.David Tzur, a former commander of the police's counter-terror unit 'Yamam', told daily 'Ha'aretz'.

"To the Indians' credit, they were determined and sought contact (with the enemy) all the time," Tzur told the daily, addingthat a terrorist takeover of a hotel is "the nightmare of every counter-terrorism unit," because it is hard to effectively "cleanse" so large a site.


However, the Israeli counter-terrorism expert was highly critical of the operation at Nariman House where he dubbed the twelve-hour battle to liberate the building "unreasonable".

"There's no chance in the world that captives will survive an incident that doesn't end within minutes of the break-in," he said.

The Indians apparently assumed that the hostages had already been killed, Tzur added.

Another counter-terrorism expert, ColLior Lotan, formerly a senior officer in the army's elite Sayeret Matkal unit, said that the Indians "operated as if there were no hostages".

"When you're rescuing captives, you enter fast, with maximum force, and try to reach the hostages as quickly as possible, even at the price of casualties," he said, adding "Here, they operated much more cautiously."

"It is not clear why the area was not cleared of bystanders, or why the comparatively risky option of a helicopter-borne assault was chosen," they reportedly said.

The explosion that blew in the ground-floor door occurred before soldiers landed on the rooftop, whereas for maximum effect, they should have occurred simultaneously, they noted.

[p_saggu]

Baljeet,
I broadly agree with you. Minor nitpicks though,
1. The IB will NEVER be anything other than a political tool used by the ruling party in power to snoop on the opposition. This is entrenched within the system, The next government will NOT BE ABLE TO RESIST THE TEMPTATION to use it like its predecessor had done.
2. Agree that RAW should be given a free hand, but mayhem in Pakistan has to be delicately directed. There has to be a method to this madness. We need:
a. there have to be leaders similar to Sheikh Mujiur Rehman to take the lead in rallying people within pakistan's states and to build up the idea of a seperate homeland for the disaffected. RAW will have to closely liason with them.
b. In the initial stages India will have to overtly keep its distance from any such move, for fear of isolating the populace of Pakistan at large. When the Shit hits the fan, we can announce our overwhelming support for our brothers.
3. The other steps that you outline should henceforth be carried out at such a regularity, that that nation remains an impoverished, harassed lot.
4. The Karachi Harbour thing is a little over the top, regular harassement of their shipping should be a good start - we have a duty to prevent the spread of WMD from pakistan's shores to the world after all. In effect an ongoing prolonged naval blockade of pakistan enforced at random on pakistan's sea trade. See how they'll love this.
5. There are others - their IT (No the software type!!!) is struggling to come up, give it all the support it can get. Same with all industries that are trying to come up.

Pakistan is a victim of terror - The first person to die in a suicide bombing is a Pakistani
(c): Enquyoob

[Baljeet]

Ravi
For once I have to agree with Lalu yadav, saw his comments to media, he is pi$$ed and baying for blood. IMHO lalu yadav will make a better HM than what we had. He is not mincing any words either, his body language was like he wanted to give some A$$ Whupping to SR Patil.

[SandeepA]

Faraz
Call it hair-trigger if you please but this kind of response is to be expected. For all I know you maybe a right thinking IM who is as outraged as the rest of us at the turn of events. If you really are so then dont take offence with reactions here to your posts and care to explain.
Stand up and make yourself heard..we really want to know.

[Kapil]

I suggest we rename Barkha as Jerka