Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 01 Dec 2008 00:11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cHxnHwrrjU

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 01 Dec 2008 00:13

shynee wrote:What kinda of sickness is this ? Sending sniffer dogs for the safety of a CM ? Is this how we respect to our soldiers ? My blood boils

Unnikrishnan refused to allow police sniffer dogs into the house when security personnel came there ahead of the Kerala Chief Minister's visit to perform their duties.

This is from the TOI

Since this is from TOILET, I am not making any judgment. But, if those security personnel are govt employees, then they should die in shame that being soldier they insulted another soldier.

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 01 Dec 2008 00:22

kobe wrote:
Hariprasad wrote:
....
......
Therefore:
Indians consider israel their friend, but indians would prefer israeli "experts" or israeli forum members don't pass judgement on recently concluded military operation

or)

A more simple explanation is, he is simply pissed that Israeli commandos were not allowed to come and help out, while simultaneously making a pitch for future involvements. Somebody should let them know, that foreign agencies are not welcome, unless asked for by the GOI.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 01 Dec 2008 00:29

Unnikrishnan refused to allow police sniffer dogs into the house

What he said was :

Get lost, you dirty dogs!

He meant the Poojya Mantris. Good for him too.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 01 Dec 2008 00:42

Baljeet wrote:
Kapil wrote:I suggest we rename Barkha as Jerka
I had better names but I will start with Barkha as Burqa.

I was most disgusted by her anchoring of todays show, in which SimiGrewal had a tiff with a bufoon in the audience.
She is constantly wanting us to be a soft state.
However, its important to realise that majority of viewers find Barkha to be a good anchor and it is to this group that we actually need to provide some education. They need to be made aware of the fact that Barkha & her ilk are playing on the subconscious mind of the viewer.

Since no one here appreciates Barkha for her slyness & her dishonesty to her profession, can someone or group of people here compile a mail that exposes her. a mail that can be used to forward to others.
Chain mail has an effect of atleast bringing this to the attention of others.

I would do it myself, but i don't think i have enough on her to write about.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 01 Dec 2008 00:45

This description is a keeper

Mumbai attacks: Real life heroes

Mumbai, Nov. 30 The appreciation and awe was writ all over their faces. From kids, to teenage girls, to middle-aged men and women who flocked to the Gateway of India to catch a piece of the anti-terrorist action at the Hotel Taj Mahal Palace, were all besotted by the real life Commandos and Rambos — commandos from the National Security Guards (better known as Black Cats) and the Navy (Marine Commandos, better known as Marcos) as well as the well-armed Grenadiers of the Indian Army.

The macho image of the commando has been romanticised in Hollywood movies such as Commando (Arnold Schwarzenegger) and the First Blood (Sylvester Stallone) and in Bollywood by Prahaar (Nana Patekar).

On seeing the fierce-looking Black Cats, a bunch of giggling teenaged girls fished out their mobile phone cameras from their handbags and requested their friends to take a picture of them in the company of the commandos.

In all probability, they’ll save the picture for posterity.

Real deal

Many parents brought their children along to the scene of action, showing the impressionable minds what battle-hardened soldiers looks like.

The presence of soldiers, in battle-fatigues, and armed to the teeth would no doubt inspire the young minds to take up a career in the defence.

Onlookers at the site chatted up the commandos and the Grenadiers about their latest “encounter” with the terrorists. The daredevilry of the valiant soldiers received encomiums from one and all.

Most of the soldiers assigned the task of flushing out terrorists at the Taj were veterans in dealing with terrorists, having served in Jammu & Kashmir.

Silent workers

Well, what better way to describe a commando than the words of the former Director General of the National Security Guards, Mr Nikhil Kumar, who once said:

“It (Black Cat) goes, strikes, achieves and quietly comes back, just like the mythological chakra which would behead the demons and return to the finger of Lord Krishna.”

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 01 Dec 2008 00:48

Here are some minds going haywire.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=6253

http://www.daily.pk/world/asia/8383-the ... umbai.html

False Flag by Mossad it says!

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 01 Dec 2008 00:59

^^^ Can the postor/somebody delete the above. The last thing we need on this thread is Alex Jones and Humayum Gobar kinda drivel!.

Taxi was meant to blow up Mumbai airport
Prabhu Chawla
Mumbai, November 28, 2008

The flyover outside the domestic airport in Mumbai and a taxi driver’s unfamiliarity with the new slip route to the terminal perhaps went a long way in averting a major disaster that could have taken the toll into hundreds on Wednesday night itself.

Shortly before the terrorists moved into their targets in South Mumbai, a black and yellow taxi, with three passengers and enough ammunition to bring down a dome, sped in the direction of the airport. Instead of taking a slip road that would have taken the passengers straight to the airport, the driver took the flyover which bypassed the airport, only to get stuck at a red light.

At rush hour, the lights stayed red for long, at which the passengers berated the driver and asked him to cut the traffic lights. The driver moved on, but the wait turned out to be a minute or two too long. The car exploded. All that was found was a severed head and parts of three human legs. Had the terrorists' plans of coinciding a blast at the airport with the attacks on the Taj and Oberoi hotels succeeded, the death toll of 26/11 would have been much bigger than it already is.

Planned to perfection
From New York to London, Madrid and Bali, the world has seen horrific terrorists attacks but few have been as perfect in terms of planning, organisation, operation and execution. It was clinical enough to make it apparent that the two dozen or so terrorists had logistical support from scores of "field officers" who mingled with the crowds outside the Taj and Oberoi hotels, not to speak of the many others who were sitting in hideouts watching TV.

The presence of TV crew, many of whom quoted their sources to tell readers about impending action by security forces, came in handy for the terrorists, at least some of whom are reported to have used satellite phones. With TV reporters dishing out exclusives about the actions that the forces were contemplating, it appeared that the terrorists were always a step ahead. The frustration boiled over and the official agencies had to finally ask the hotel management to disconnect TV cables.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 01 Dec 2008 01:07

apart from ending the paki nuclear blackmail, we will achieve

- split pakistan AGAIN
- names would be : baluchidesh, pakjab, sindhdesh (along the lines of bangladesh)
- we will have more countries playing cricket and join ICL (more revenues for india)
- hurriat members will be re-converted as brahmins, they can be employed as priests all over india
- NWFP can be absorbed by afghanistan
- elimination of islamic bomb

It won't end Paki blackmail one bit. You might end up on the wrong side of the nuke.

Pakistan will be UNITED not split if India attacks.

Rest all you wrote is irrelevent and childish.

-----

I have written here before that in case of extremists aka Taliban taking over Pakistan, India and US will have to eliminate Pakistani nukes. It will require MASSIVE and SUSTAINED 24 x 7 domination of skies for much more than a month. As Asprinzl has correctly mentioned that one cannot be 99.99997% sure. One has to be 100 % sure nothing takes off from Pakistan. The logistical effort for such domination does not rest with either the US operating from ACs or by India alone. That job has to be done in conjunction. Without AWACs we cannot do it.

So when some one is your well wisher for many years, and you've been around for 2 days here, it's better to get critical inputs from Israeli friends and forumites than armchair General jingoistic comments from folks.

And yes there were lots of places where criticism is valid even of Special Forces. Every operation is not without errors. I am for one doubtful that only 3 terrorists could have controlled a 600 room hotel like Taj, or 10 terrorists were there in total. The damage and control points to much more.

Yes and fire plans marking exits and Hotel plans..are they not supposed to be mandatory in 5 star hotels and available in times of emergencies? How can one secure floors if one does not have plans? I did find it strange that the MARCOS leader revealed they worked without plans. He did know what he was talking about. No one doubts their ability in combat and the gruelling job they had to undertake in the circumstances. But to put the armed forces or special forces above criticism is not correct.

Remember no emergency is tackled 100% by the book. Never has copybook emergency procedures been achieved by any security agency in the world. We have witnessed 911, Beslan, London, Madrid, Bali, Mumbai 93, 06, 08..respectful criticism is a must in such types of operations.

R_Kumar · Post by **R_Kumar** » 01 Dec 2008 01:18

SwamyG wrote:Cohen on CNN with FZ, talks about the railway station named after a Hindu reeks of his ignorance about the land and the symbols. When was the station renamed? Except for the name there is no Hindu value to it. Experts, duh?

So what majority of people still calls India as Bharat or Hindustan. Cohen is a paid by Pakis.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 01 Dec 2008 01:27

durgesh wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cHxnHwrrjU

thank you for posting -

Thumbs up to Suhel Seth - he expressed very well what the most of us and India are thinking.

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 01 Dec 2008 01:29

Controversy over RGV in CM's team visiting Taj,Trident

30 Nov 2008, 2357 hrs IST,PTI

MUMBAI: A controversy broke out on Sunday over chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh being accompanied by hot-shot film maker Ram Gopal Varma and his actor-son Riteish during his visit to terror-hit luxury Taj Mahal and Trident-Oberoi luxury hotels.

As eyebrows were raised about the two members from the film industry being in the chief minister's team, Varma said he saw nothing wrong since he happened to be with Riteish when Deshmukh came visiting the Taj Hotel.

"I just walked along with him (Riteish). I have no intention of making a film neither do I know Vilasrao Deshmukh," Varma said.

"We never have been formally introduced. I doubt he knows me also. I personally have no intention. On making a film on this incident obviously I cannot stand for the rest of the filmmakers in Bollywood," Varma added.

Deshmukh has come in for criticism from a section of media, which lampooned him, saying he had gone on a 'picnic' along with son and Varma.

"I did not see anything there which the TV coverage has not shown me already. I have no intention of making a film ever on this issue," he added.

Similar was the response of other film makers Rahul Dholakia (of Parzania..) and Mahesh Bhatt.

However, one industry observer said "It is still too early to say. But going by past experiences, Bollywood film makers are known to jump at any tragedy -- and this one is of a monumental nature -- to choose as subject of their ventures", an industry observer said.

News channel put our lives at risk: UK couple
PTI
Monday, December 01, 2008 00:39 IST

LONDON: A British couple caught in the Mumbai terror attacks have complained that a news channel had put their lives at risk by broadcasting their location in the Taj Mahal Hotel.

Lynne and Kenneth Shaw, who live in South Wales, said that terrorists were listening in on the media to pinpoint Western victims. Lynne claimed that CNN had broadcast details of where they were at the hotel.

She has appealed to the media to be careful with the information it broadcasts because safety could be compromised and lives could be lost. The couple returned to Heathrow on Saturday.

Lynne was forced to hide under a table as terrorists stormed the hotel. She and her husband were later rescued by Gurkhas and taken to the Australian embassy for safety.

The couple was at the end of a month-long visit to India and was staying in Mumbai for a few days before heading back to the UK.

“We have been asked by the British terror police not to talk to the press. But the reason I would not want to talk to anyone is because our safety was actually compromised by CNN, which broadcast where we were,” Lynee said.

“The terrorists were watching CNN and they came down from where they were in a lift after hearing about us on TV. For that reason, I would appeal to the media to be very careful about what they broadcast.” However, a CNN spokesman said: “CNN has received no complaint from any individual regarding our coverage and their safety. We take such matters very seriously.”

enaiel · Post by **enaiel** » 01 Dec 2008 01:50

NYTimes: Timeline - Two Days of Terror

R_Kumar · Post by **R_Kumar** » 01 Dec 2008 02:03

Baljeet wrote:Ravi
For once I have to agree with Lalu yadav, saw his comments to media, he is pi$$ed and baying for blood. IMHO lalu yadav will make a better HM than what we had. He is not mincing any words either, his body language was like he wanted to give some A$$ Whupping to SR Patil.

Looks like you haven't seen him full. Personally he doesn't like Patil and hoping for HM for himself.
What will be his response if you ask him about bringing back pota. He will start with "secular" and blal bla. Most of his Railways turnaround is number manipulation. We may be able see the reality very soon. He couldn't take care of a single state and in fact he destroyed it beyond repair. UPA has a dream team as far as mantris are concerned.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 01 Dec 2008 02:07

BRF rakshaks, please sign this petition. Make our rants here heard. Lets keep the fire burning under these politicians' a**.

http://www.petitiononline.com/MUMx2611/petition.html

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 01 Dec 2008 02:10

Dmurphy wrote:Here are some minds going haywire.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=6253

http://www.daily.pk/world/asia/8383-the ... umbai.html

False Flag by Mossad it says!

Infowars is a website for 9/11 conspiracy kooks. So, no surprise there.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 01 Dec 2008 02:14

narayanan wrote:
Unnikrishnan refused to allow police sniffer dogs into the house

What he said was :
Get lost, you dirty dogs!

He meant the Poojya Mantris. Good for him too.

Youtube video

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 01 Dec 2008 02:22

Let's get a few things clear about the israeli monday morning QBs

1. Ehud Barak was part of the team that supposedly killedthe munich attackers. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that they killed the wrong people and then spread the myth about killing the munich attackers. Of course, it's also one thing to go shoot up people when there are no hostages.

2. Hello!! Lebanon...

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 01 Dec 2008 02:30

samuel.chandra wrote:BRF rakshaks, please sign this petition. Make our rants here heard. Lets keep the fire burning under these politicians' a**.

http://www.petitiononline.com/MUMx2611/petition.html

I have signed it .There are only 12 signatories in a billion .Hurry up, guys.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 01 Dec 2008 02:32

From Fareed Zakaria's show today:

ZAKARIA: We're back with Henry Kissinger, former secretary of state, to talk about the implications of the
terror attacks in Mumbai.

Henry, how should the United States handle this?

KISSINGER: We have to know what we really think about this situation. And this can only be done by the
closest cooperation between the incoming and outgoing administrations. It cannot be defined entirely by the
Bush administration, even though we have only, obviously, one president at a time.

Secondly, India has to know that we are committed to its stability and to its security, and that we are
prepared to discuss with them cooperative measures -- always leaving them in the position that they are the
ones that are designing the policy for their own security.

Third, we should have a very serious conversation with Pakistan. Pakistan has been a traditional friend. We
have cooperated with Pakistan. They helped us in the opening to China in an indispensable way. And they
were cooperative in many phases of the war on terror.

But they have to understand that they cannot -- that it is an ultimate threat to their own security if they permit
conditions to exist on their territory, where it simultaneously threatens all the major neighboring countries.
And where Pakistan has a right to be told that we respect its territorial integrity, that we discourage attacks
on its territorial integrity, but that in the end, it has to be a good citizen in its neighborhood, especially with
respect to the threat that is now becoming paramount simultaneously in Afghanistan and significant in India.
And it has to understand, in my view, that its biggest security threat now are the entities that it is permitting
or tolerating on its own territory. We should act here as a friend, but we should make clear what our
understanding of the situation is.

Steve, your first reaction to these attacks. Does it seem to you that this is entirely a Pakistani issue, a mixture of Pakistani and local? How does it strike you?

STEPHEN P. COHEN, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: I think it was a coalition operation -- possibly al Qaeda, possibly elements from Pakistan, or with a Pakistani connection, maybe Indian.

If you look at the four targets that were hit, there was a Jewish center, there was a railway station named after a famous Hindu nationalist, Shivaji, and then, of course, two hotels which are frequented by Americans. So, I think it was an all-purpose attack, which would satisfy the needs of both al Qaeda, radical Indian Muslim groups, and possibly Pakistanis.

ZAKARIA: Ashley, anything to add to that?

ASHLEY TELLIS, SENIOR ASSOCIATE, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: Well, I think it has all the hallmarks of an LET attack -- that's a Lashkar-e-Taiba attack. I think, in principle ...

ZAKARIA: That is a Pakistani-trained group that has operated in Kashmir.

TELLIS: That's right. It's a group that was founded and supported by the ISI for many years in the '90s, and began its operations in Kashmir, but today is really a terrorist organization of global reach.

LET operates today in Afghanistan. It operates in Chechnya. It's been noticed in Iraq. It has fund-raising operations in Western Europe, in Africa. And, of course, it continues to operate in Kashmir.

ZAKARIA: Steve, how would you respond to the question that I put to Henry Kissinger, which is, can the Pakistani military be convinced that it really is not in their interests to have these flirtations with jihadi groups, when these have been, from their point of view, a kind of successful policy in the past?

They use them at very low cost. They're able to destabilize India at times. They're able to destabilize the Afghan government, if they feel that a strong Afghanistan is going to be a threat to them.

Is there a possibility of a kind of reorientation of the Pakistani strategic mind?

COHEN: Well, Pakistan, especially the army, is like the Titanic heading towards an iceberg. And it takes a long time to turn a ship like that. But if they don't turn, they're going to run right into the iceberg.

You've got two or three generations of Pakistani officers who still regard India as a strategic threat, which is not to mean that they would support this kind of operation directly against India. But it means that they've tolerated groups in Pakistan, including Lashkar- e-Taiba, which have targeted India. And of course, they've been supporting groups such as the Taliban, which have targeted Afghanistan, including the Indian presence in Afghanistan, which they greatly exaggerate.

So, I think it's a question of turning the Titanic. We have warning signs. We know there's an iceberg ahead.

But I'm not sure whether the Pakistan army itself can bring itself to establish the kind of control and enforce the writ of the Pakistani state over groups which are carrying out acts, which they might have supported in the past, but which are really going to destroy Pakistan or else lead to an India-Pakistan crisis.

ZAKARIA: Ashley, is this going to lead to frictions between India and Pakistan inevitably? You're at the American embassy in New Delhi. Describe what you think is likely to happen between these two countries.

TELLIS: I think the key question is going to be whether the intelligence investigative -- the Indian intelligence and investigative services -- can actually identify a group that conducted this operation with Pakistani links.

If such an identification is made in the days and weeks ahead, then I think it's going to cause very severe stresses in the relationship, because the Indian people, who are both horrified and angered by the events of the last three days, are going to ask what kind of relationship India ought to have with Pakistan.

And the pressures for some kind of a response -- not necessarily a military response, but some kind of a response that communicates Indian displeasure -- will grow.

ZAKARIA: We're also dealing, Steve, with two weak states in different senses of the word, are we not?

The Indian government is a somewhat dysfunctional, weak coalition government. The counterterrorism capacities are not that well developed. And the Pakistanis have very little control over these territories that some of these militants come from.

In this mix, is it sort of impossible to imagine a robust counterterrorism policy in South Asia?

COHEN: I think that's the deeper problem, not only India and Pakistan, but Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh. These are very weak states. In cases where the economy is thriving, as in India, the state itself is, in a sense, shriveling away.

They've been unable to modernize the military, to modernize their counterterrorism operations. They've modernized by expanding and buying new technology, but not by organizational change. And there's some question as to whether a society such as India or Pakistan is amenable to that kind of discipline.

Meanwhile, they're being attacked from outside by groups which are very well disciplined, highly motivated and have international support of various sorts.

ZAKARIA: Ashley, in your experience, do you think the Indians would look kindly on American help? Are they willing to use American know-how, cooperation on counterterrorism issues?

TELLIS: I think they would welcome that. In fact, for the last several years, the Indians have repeatedly asked for a variety of access to American technologies.

But I think they see the question of access and assistance as being only half the problem. The other half of the problem, which, you know, New Delhi and Washington have not been able to agree on, is the whole question of Pakistan and the role that Pakistan plays in fomenting terrorism.

I mean, there is a point that Steve made, which I agree with, that a good deal of this can be explained by state incapacity. But there is a dimension of state complicity, as well. And although that complicity has waxed and waned over the years, the central question of whether you can be an American ally in the war on terror, while still being part of the problem of terrorism, is an issue that needs to be confronted.

And I think that's where the Indians have been most anxious that the U.S. has not quite appreciated the gravity of the problem.

ZAKARIA: Has the U.S. confronted Pakistan on these issues, Ashley?

TELLIS: I think it has in bits and pieces, depending on how salient the problem has been, but that pressure has not been consistent. And it has certainly permitted Pakistan to divide the nature of its support.

So, for example, from 2001 to 2006, we focused very much on getting Pakistan to sever its ties with al Qaeda. We permitted Pakistan to go easy on the Taliban, to look, you know, with a certain degree of equanimity at various Kashmiri terrorist groups.

And I think some of the things that we've seen in the last few years -- both in Afghanistan and in India now -- really are examples of chickens coming home to roost.

ZAKARIA: Steve, how much of this is also part of the Afghan problem?

That is, we have a problem in Afghanistan. We are not able to fully eliminate al Qaeda, because there is some sympathy and support within some elements of the Taliban. They appear to have some degree of support within elements of Pakistan.

Is this all tied in with our al Qaeda problem?

COHEN: Well, it is in a sense that the Pakistanis have exaggerated Indian presence in Afghanistan. And they're afraid of Indian encirclement. Hence, they're supporting the Taliban as their tool against the Indian presence in Afghanistan.

And I think the Obama people have tried to deal with this by working backward and promoting India-Pakistan normalization. I'm afraid that events are going to outrun this diplomatic process, and I think you might well see a military crisis in the next couple of months.

The Indians have been developing a Cold Start strategy -- that's the name for it -- which would involve a short cross-border punishing raid in response to any major terrorist act. And this certainly is a major terrorist attack of unprecedented magnitude in India.

So, I think that diplomacy may not have time to work in effect in terms of bringing our two friends together, and you may be preempted by an Indian military attack or a conflict on the border between the two countries.

ZAKARIA: On that note, Steve Cohen, Ashley Tellis, thank you very much.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 01 Dec 2008 02:37

sped in the direction of the airport. Instead of taking a slip road that would have taken the passengers straight to the airport, the driver took the flyover which bypassed the airport, only to get stuck at a red light.

At rush hour, the lights stayed red for long, at which the passengers berated the driver and asked him to cut the traffic lights. The driver moved on, but the wait turned out to be a minute or two too long. The car exploded. All that was found was a severed head and parts of three human legs. Had the terrorists' plans of coinciding a blast at the airport with the attacks on the Taj and Oberoi hotels succeeded, the death toll of 26/11 would have been much bigger than it already is.

er.. did they interrogate the severed head, or the legs, to determine that the "passengers berated the driver and asked him to cut the traffic lights"? Why didn't the mo**s just get out and run? This sounds classic BakPaki. Must have been more of the PakDef terrorists from Leeds or Bradford, to be THIS stupid. Taxi driver may have been taking them on the scenic route to run up the meter, them being obvious oiseules.

AlbertPinto · Post by **AlbertPinto** » 01 Dec 2008 03:06

take your pet conspiracy theory to the west of our borders.
they will be much more receptive.
Rahul.

Yogeshwar · Post by **Yogeshwar** » 01 Dec 2008 03:08

We need to have a place in this thread or separate one --where we can list the profiles and any information about all the terrorists killed or captured so that we can track who they were, where they came from, links to the excuse of a nation whose name I never mention.

Otherwise media will forget it.

amar_ · Post by **amar_** » 01 Dec 2008 03:15

"CPI leader A B Bardhan warned the government against any military misadventure against Pakistan. "
"http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-slammed ... 438-3.html"

Why do we have half chakkas like this represent us. When do we ever wake up from slumber.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 01 Dec 2008 03:21

AlbertPinto wrote:Ok... two of the short-term missions of the global moneymasters is accomplished thru this act of terror (as I hinted in an earlier post in part II of this thread) -
[1] Chidambaram moved out of Finance Ministry.
[2] Decision made to create the Federal (!!!) Agency (read replica and surrogate of US Dept of Homeland Security for India).
... more and more enslavement of India.

Looks like the moneymasters want BJP to come to power as they proved to have a better track record of selling/mortgaging India faster than the Congress. After all the BJP govt created a whole Deapartment of Disinvestment (!!!) under Finance Minstry.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 01 Dec 2008 03:23

Heard on CNN. First encouraging news out of GoI. India to rescend ceasefire agreement with the pakis. This means LOC is going to turn hot. Good going. AmriKhans are not going to like this, with pakis moving troops from NWFP to POK. Thats how the cookie crumbles.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 01 Dec 2008 03:33

It was a national humiliation

At the base of it all is the shameful fact that we choose to be confused by terrorism. We are not sure whether to treat it as a law and order problem or as an act of war against the nation. Our elite journalists of the print and TV/radio world are not even sure as to whether to describe those who indulge in an act of terror as “militants” or “terrorists”.

Take the policing of our urban areas which are the focal points of terrorism. Lt General Sinha recently disclosed that in the last sixty years after Independence the number of police stations in the country has increased by a laughable 15 per cent over the figure of 12,000 that existed then....
In contrast, he says, our population has increased four times in that same period even as policing has become so much more complex than before....
Further, whatever police force available is overworked but underpaid, apart from being manipulated and exploited by their political bosses. That is why, at least Mumbai’s policemen, and policewomen , look so unfit, almost obese, and so blank in face....
Ditto with our Intelligence force.

Then there’s the human rights industry and our politicians’ concern for it much beyond national interest. And there’s that impractical concern for “guilty beyond reasonable doubt” even in matters of terrorism. If cockroaches had votes and rats had a religion, our politicians would enact a law prohibiting killing of those two living species as well.

Imagine the People’s Democratic Party of Jammu & Kashmir granting pensions from government to families of slain terrorists. Imagine, the Prime Minister himself disclosing his sleepless night over the plight of the mother of an Indian Muslim held in police custody in Australia on suspicion of being involved in a bomb blast but not over the plight of mothers of thousands of his innocent countrymen killed in terrorist violence.

Imagine two Cabinet Ministers oppose the ban on SIMI despite the latter’s proven guilt. Imagine one Cabinet Minister wanting all illegal migrants from Bangladesh to be given full citizenship rights, when it is well-known that many among them have links with terrorists. Imagine another Cabinet Minister approving of a University vice chancellor’s decision to deploy funds provided by a foreign government to be utilized for the legal defence of two of his University students accused of involvement in terrorist violence.

Imagine, lastly, that amounts running into thousands of crores have been spent on the Haj subsidy for Muslims but the security of our very long coastline on the west is so ill-funded that terrorists can come from Karachi across the Arabian Sea to Mumbai without being spotted.

Contrast all of this is typically indolent-cum-idealistic-cum-selfish Indian attitude to the stark realism and patriotism of the USA when 9/11 occurred in 2001.
Unless the whole young nation of ours forgets non-violence as a magic mantra and unless our politicians show a commitment similar to that of the USA to engage in a literal war against terror, we shall continue to allow just about a dozen-odd terrorists to humiliate an entire nation for over 48 hours, even as a naïve Prime Minister calls the Pakistan chief of intelligence to share info with us.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 01 Dec 2008 03:35

amar_ wrote:"CPI leader A B Bardhan warned the government against any military misadventure against Pakistan. "
"http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-slammed ... 438-3.html"

Why do we have half chakkas like this represent us. When do we ever wake up from slumber.

He represents the Chinkees, nobody in India.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Dec 2008 03:35

parsuram wrote:Heard on CNN. First encouraging news out of GoI. India to rescend ceasefire agreement with the pakis. This means LOC is going to turn hot. Good going. AmriKhans are not going to like this, with pakis moving troops from NWFP to POK. Thats how the cookie crumbles.

If LoC gets hotter, only then will it move Northwards.

There are so many tools at India's disposal, there is no reason to feel impotent. The will to use them is important.

A Arun · Post by **A Arun** » 01 Dec 2008 03:41

Vivek_A wrote:
Dmurphy wrote:Here are some minds going haywire.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=6253

http://www.daily.pk/world/asia/8383-the ... umbai.html

False Flag by Mossad it says!

Infowars is a website for 9/11 conspiracy kooks. So, no surprise there.

Zaid Hamid's intelligence sources have even found out the real names of the terrorists. Girly Boy apparently is a Sikh named Amar Singh, and his partner in crime is Heera Lal!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exvlatXpCnI

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 01 Dec 2008 03:48

amar_ wrote:"CPI leader A B Bardhan warned the government against any military misadventure against Pakistan. "
"http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-slammed ... 438-3.html"

Why do we have half chakkas like this represent us. When do we ever wake up from slumber.

Mr. Bardhan yes sir...don't worry, the Indian bourgeoisie will not attach the Pakistani proletariat...meanwhile you can get back to your politburo meeting with your Cheeni comrades....

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 01 Dec 2008 03:49

Vijay Subramaniam
Nov 30, 2008 5:37 PM GMT
Its surprising that most of my countrymen are still in denial. What should be more worrisome is not Pakistani Nukes falling into wrong hands, but our own Nukes falling in wrong hand. We have just come to know how Hindu extremist have infiltrated our armed forces and were main culprits behind Samjohta Express bombing. And those law enforcement agencies who were investigating that tragedy have been killed by Hindu extremist in this orchestrated tragedy by the same Hindu extremist. I am confident that our Nukes have fallen into the hands of Hindu terrorist as they have infiltrated our armed forces and they want to jump start a Nuclear Holocaust with Pakistan. The world should help us peace loving Indians in getting rid of these Hindu terrorist before its too late.
Link to this comment

Vijay Subramaniam
Nov 30, 2008 5:26 PM GMT
Yes boogieman paddled their way from Karachi 1000km, maybe a World record, bypassing Indian navy, and then landed in a city of 19 million, and then they knew exactly where to go and whom to Kill. Its not surprising that ATS chief/and other police echelon that were being threatened for exposing Samjohta express incident were magically killed. The same boogieman was invoked in Samjohta Express and truth has come out that it was our own military infiltrated by Hindu extremists that was involved. This notion that Saffron bands were immediately put on after these people arrived on paddled boat simply to blend in is ludicrous. Of all the religious symbolism these terrorist opted to use Saffron band to give us a bad name? Its high time that we realize Hindu extremists that have hijacked our nation are up to no good, and that our only way is with united Secular India. Otherwise these Hindu extremist will become a catalyst to destroy Indian federation as we know it. Wake up India before its too late!

Paki's are such slimeballs..i just wonder do they think Westerners get sucked up by such antics? Maybe some do. The penchant for dispensing falsehood and untruth is so high among Islam..

The above are comments from Business week..

http://app.businessweek.com/UserComment ... ageIndex=2

AlbertPinto · Post by **AlbertPinto** » 01 Dec 2008 03:55

don't peddle your conspiracy theories here.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 01 Dec 2008 03:56

I wish atleast 30% of pakis are like zaid hamid.It will make GOI's life whole lot easier. This dude is whole lot funnier then Mr.Bean..

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 01 Dec 2008 03:59

BijuShet wrote:
narayanan wrote:
What he said was :
He meant the Poojya Mantris. Good for him too.
Youtube video

THENDI NAYIKKALEY!! PODA!!
translation: thendi (stray) nayikkaley (dogs)!! poda (get lost)!!!

Never before have I seen the likes of hardened CPI(M) honchos like VS Achuthanandan (and his HM) getting owned like that.

This simple statement by the grieving father expresses the current mindset of a billion.

Glad to hear those words uttred by someone with an impeccable warrior lineage. This whole piggy episode made my spirits rise to a level that was never seen since 1984. We dont care if all the politicians of all nations, the uberpower using its gobarpower (media) and wax encrusted WKKs of Delhi screws us: we shall fight and we shall prevail

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 01 Dec 2008 04:10

Vivek_A wrote:Let's get a few things clear about the israeli monday morning QBs

1. Ehud Barak was part of the team that supposedly killedthe munich attackers. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that they killed the wrong people and then spread the myth about killing the munich attackers. Of course, it's also one thing to go shoot up people when there are no hostages.

2. Hello!! Lebanon...

Let me be clear here for once. I dont like Ehud Barak. He is the one person who single handedly messed up in Lebanon by ordering the panic withdrawal from the security zone without even informing our Christian Lebanese allies. In the ensuing general panic, the Christian and their Shiite allies (about 5000 strong, better armed and trained than Hezbollah)correctly thinking that Israelis were abandoning them to the wolves just abandoned their equipments and positions and ran with their families towards Israel following the Israelis. The weapons (artilery, tanks, guns and electronic equipments) became Hisbollah property. That was Ehud Barrak's contribution to Israel's security. On top of it, while he went around whinning that ARafat was a liar and cannot be trusted, he made concession after concession to Arafat. To pacify Israeli anger after a couple of soldiers were lynched alive, he sent the Apaches to fire rockets at an empty police station. Worse of all he begged Clinton to pardon Marc Rich who was charged with trading in oil with the Iranian government.
Ehud Barrack is unreliable as a political leader.

In my recent previous posts, I did not slander the Marcos or NSG but the way the political powers mishandled them. One of the Marcos personnel was quoted saying that he had a tough time because the terrorist was running into dark places each time after firing at the commandos. My question was: Why was not a simple NV device given to this guys to operate in dark. The hotel is said to be huge and complicated in design. Why was there no building layout made available to this guys. I have been in urban combat. It is not easy. We had aerial surveillance photos, maps etc. Nothing is perfect and everything is fluid in war. Yet, we had extremely difficult time. Somethings didnt work out as planned.

Now imagine what tremendous task these guys are given to deal with: Hostages, without building layout, without NV devices and with time running out. Given the handicap, they did heck of a job.

On the time it took to bring the special troops: I read someone mentioned that to bring 200 commandos, only the IL can carry that many troops in one go and at that time the IL was parked in another city and that the pilot had to be roused out of his sleep. I am thinking...do you really have to send them 200 guys in one go or could you not break them up in two groups or three groups depending on whatever sized plane was availble in the vicinity instead of waiting for the mother plane to arrive?

Another thing that I feel sad is the account given by the guy from Mumbai Mirror. He said the terrorists at the railway station stood exposed yet the policemen were not willing to shoot at them. He had to go and ask/beg the cops to shoot but none did. Is this cowardliness or what? I am not even talking about Jewish victims here. At the railway station, the victims fellow Indians-mostly Hindus.

The sacrifice of the brave hotel staffs and the effort of the special troops ended this tragedy and they deserve everyone's praise but the powers that be who majorly contributed to the rot and dificiencies must not be allowed to walk away free or walk away with the credit.

Everything must be scrutinized and no leave must be left unturned. Questions that should be asked must be asked. Were the police equiped well and trained well or was nepotism involved in selection process. Was the ATS chief wearing BPJ or was he not. If he was wearing one, was it of sub-standard manufacture? Many many questions.
Avram

bart · Post by **bart** » 01 Dec 2008 04:11

Acharya wrote:

National Security Guard members rest outside Taj Mahal Hotel after an operation in Mumbai November 29, 2008. (Xinhua/Reuters Photo)

Cool.

Along with the all-black uniforms, all k-9 officers of the Black Cats are Black Labs.

bart · Post by **bart** » 01 Dec 2008 04:14

durgesh wrote:
samuel.chandra wrote:BRF rakshaks, please sign this petition. Make our rants here heard. Lets keep the fire burning under these politicians' a**.

http://www.petitiononline.com/MUMx2611/petition.html
I have signed it .There are only 12 signatories in a billion .Hurry up, guys.

Guys, no offence, but do you really think that making an entry on petitiononline is going to make a difference? I think there are more productive areas that we can focus on like agitating at the ground level where politicians are more likely to feel the pain.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 01 Dec 2008 04:16

That 2 bit prostitute can't even get the name of a Shaheed right!
He called him "Kurkura"
Zaid you son of a slimy sow! Sikh's wear a "kadaa" which is made of iron not some orange thread...
Just pray to your allah that a Sikh from the Sikh Infantry doesn't get his hands on you!

I wish this guy gets a grenade smoked up his Musharraf soon....
so called strategy analyst.....

A Arun wrote:
Vivek_A wrote:
Infowars is a website for 9/11 conspiracy kooks. So, no surprise there.
Zaid Hamid's intelligence sources have even found out the real names of the terrorists. Girly Boy apparently is a Sikh named Amar Singh, and his partner in crime is Heera Lal!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exvlatXpCnI

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 01 Dec 2008 04:30

asprinzl wrote: Another thing that I feel sad is the account given by the guy from Mumbai Mirror. He said the terrorists at the railway station stood exposed yet the policemen were not willing to shoot at them. He had to go and ask/beg the cops to shoot but none did. Is this cowardliness or what? I am not even talking about Jewish victims here. At the railway station, the victims fellow Indians-mostly Hindus.

Mumbai police have fought hard and let there be no questions on their bravery. Even if that episode is true (I have my serious doubts), we dont know the cop's side of the story. If you are that cop with the gun, you would not shoot at the "request" of Mumbai Mirror guy, would you? And naturally that would piss off the mirror guy. Like any normal police officer (unlike ATS), he was probably there for show of force and reassurance. For all you know, he might not have been trained for tactical shooting inside crowded spaces.

I know you are a well wisher of India, but I request that right now a person with your experience should not post comments about mental breakdowns etc. For such postings are highly useful for the unpalatables across the border.

Here is a middle-aged chap from the force narrating his side of story.
http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/01/stories ... 661000.htm