Terror Attacks in Mumbai - III

[Singha]

I have to agree with Rohit - you cant take a IIT , cut into ten parts,
relocate them all over and expect the same output. centralization brings
economy of scale and cohesion. as a placeholder why dont they enact
a law permitting GOI to take over any civilian a.c in a emergency - there would be lots of 737/A320 in delhi tarmac 24x7.

WSJ _ I have removed the headline which is a psyops one intended
to blame the victim, but it does have details not known elsewhere.


MUMBAI -- As waiters started setting dinner buffets in Mumbai's luxurious hotels, the killings that would ravage this Indian metropolis began out of sight, in the muddy waters of the Arabian Sea.

In the dusk hours of Wednesday, fisherman Chandrakant Tare was sailing his boat about 100 yards from a fishing trawler when he spotted young men killing a sailor on board. He says he saw them toss the body into the engine room. Assuming he had stumbled upon pirates, Mr. Tare says, he sped away.

Hours later, at least 10 terrorists, having arrived by small craft on the shores of Mumbai, began to sow death and destruction at will across India's financial capital.

Pieced together from interviews with dozens of witnesses and officials, this account of the three days of the battle for Mumbai shows just how a small but ruthless group of skilled militants, attacking multiple targets in quick succession, managed to bring one of the world's largest cities to its knees. The human toll -- currently at 174 fatalities, including nine terrorists -- was exacerbated by the Indian authorities' lack of preparedness for such a major attack. But the chain of events also points to just how vulnerable any major city can be to this type of urban warfare.

Authorities are still questioning the one captured terrorist, a 21-year-old Pakistani named Ajmal Qasab, who they say has confessed to training with outlawed Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba. The investigation remains in its very early stages, and the identities of the killed militants remain unclear.

Around 8:30 p.m. Wednesday, one dinghy with half a dozen young men landed at a trash-strewn fishing harbor near the southern tip of the Mumbai peninsula, witnesses say; a second arrived nearby shortly after. Mostly in their early- to mid-20s, the men came ashore wearing dark clothes and hauling heavy bags and backpacks, according to fisherman Ajay Mestry, who saw one of the landings. The group he saw split up and raced toward the shimmering city.

Arriving by boat, a small team of terrorists spread out across Mumbai, instilling terror in India's largest city for three days.

When one young man with a bulging bag jogged up from the beach, Anita Rajendra Udayaar, the keeper of a roadside stall full of recycled plastic bottles, asked where he was heading. "Mind your own business!" he shouted back, she recalls.

Mumbai's attention that night was focused on one of the country's favorite sports: cricket. India was playing against England, and beating its old colonial master. In the open-air Cafe Leopold, a popular people-watching spot near the landing site, customers -- many of them foreign backpackers -- were watching the match.

At about 9:30 p.m., two gunmen with assault rifles appeared on the sidewalk, witnesses said. One stood at the entrance, the second to his left. Then they started firing.

Minutes later, they walked away, leaving more than a dozen casualties behind amid upturned, bloodied tables.

At about the same time, two other gunmen arrived at a Bharat Petroleum gas station at the corner of a small alley that leads to Chabad House, also known as Nariman House, the local headquarters of the Brooklyn-based Chabad-Lubavitch Jewish movement.

With its small, faded sign, the five-story Chabad House -- which served as a guesthouse and source of kosher food for the many Israeli backpackers who travel through India -- is so hard to find that most visitors ask for directions at the gas station. But the militants knew their way, a station attendant says: Without stopping, they threw a hand grenade into the gas station, and walked into the alley.

Alarmed by the explosion, Chabad House's rabbi, Gavriel Holtzberg, called the Israeli consulate. The two gunmen burst into his building, taking a number of Israelis, a young Mexican Jewish woman, and the rabbi and his family hostage. It appears that they quickly shot dead one of the guests, an Israeli kosher ritual inspector, whose body would be found badly decomposed at the end of the siege.

The explosion and gunfire attracted the attention of neighbors. Some young men started throwing stones toward the building. Manush Goheil, a 25-year-old tailor, stepped outside the family's shop to get a better view. His brother Harish watched from the shop as a gunman shot him dead with a well-aimed bullet fired from the Chabad House's top floor.

Around the same time about one mile north at Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, Mumbai's monumental colonial-era train station, two gunmen in dark T-shirts and hauling heavy backpacks walked down Platform 13, which opens into a large hall fringed by Re-Fresh Food Plaza, a fast-food outlet.

Throwing a hand grenade into the crowd of travelers, they unloaded volleys of gunfire. Bullets flew through the window where the station's manager, D.P. Chaudhari, observed the hall; he ducked down and survived. A colleague, S.K. Sharma, was cut down as he crossed the concourse. One bullet lodged in the stomach of Re-Fresh Plaza manager Mukesh Aggarwal. The gunmen peppered a bookstand at the back of the hall with bullets, shattering the glass next to a copy of "Complete Wellbeing" magazine, according to vendor Sarman Lal, who quivered on the floor saying his last prayers.

The two gunmen moved along two separate paths toward the station's main entrance, firing as they walked. They met virtually no resistance, even though several dozen police officers are usually deployed at the station. "They were killing the public, and the police just ran away," says Ram Vir, a coffee vendor whose stand is near Platform 8.

B.S. Sidhu, head of the Railway Protection Force for the Mumbai region, says that while some officers tried to fight back, there was little his force could do. Most police officers at the station -- as they are throughout India -- were unarmed or carried only bamboo sticks known as lathis. More than 40 people, including three police officers, were killed in just a few minutes, authorities said. The wounded survivors screamed for help amid acrid smoke, piles of slumped, bloodied bodies and spilling suitcases.

By then, shooting had begun in two other spots: Mumbai's most luxurious hotels, symbols of the city's prosperity that were packed with tourists, visiting executives, and the local elite out for dinner. The historic Taj Mahal Palace & Tower and a complex housing both the Oberoi and Trident hotels rise high above the sea on opposite sides of the southern tip of Mumbai.


In the aftermath of bloody attacks, Mumbai residents raised questions about how they could have occurred and how a handful of terrorists could hold off waves of Indian commandos.

At about 9:45 p.m., two gunmen, slender and in their mid-20s, ran up the circular driveway at the entrance to the Trident. They shot the security guard and two bellhops. The hotel had metal detectors, but none of its security personnel carried weapons because of the difficulties in obtaining gun permits from the Indian government, according to the hotel company's chairman, P.R.S. Oberoi. The gunmen raced through the marble-floored lobby, past the grand piano into the adjoining Verandah restaurant, firing at the guests and shattering the windows.

At the end of the lobby, they burst into a bar called the Opium Den, shooting dead a hotel staff member. Then they ran after a group of guests who tried to escape through a rear service area. They killed them, too.

The gunmen returned to the Verandah, climbed a staircase, dashed down a corridor lined with jewelry and clothes shops, and stopped in front of the glass doors of Tiffin Restaurant, a swanky restaurant with a sushi bar in the Oberoi hotel.

They killed four of six friends who live in south Mumbai and had just settled down at a table near the front door. One member of the group, a mother of two, threw herself to the ground and shut her eyes, pretending to be dead. The men circled the restaurant, firing at point blank range into anyone who moved before rushing upstairs to an Indian restaurant called Kandahar.

Restaurant workers there ushered guests closest to the kitchen inside. The assailants jumped in front of another group that tried to run out the door. "Stop," they shouted in Hindi. They corralled 16 diners and led them up to the 20th floor. One man in the group dialed his wife in London and told her he'd been taken hostage but was OK. "Everybody drop your phones," one of the assailants shouted, apparently overhearing. Phones clattered to the floor as the three women and 13 men dug through their purses and pockets and obeyed.

On the 20th floor, the gunmen shoved the group out of the stairwell. They lined up the 13 men and three women and lifted their weapons. "Why are you doing this to us?" a man called out. "We haven't done anything to you."

"Remember Babri Masjid?" one of the gunmen shouted, referring to a 16th-century mosque built by India's first Mughal Muslim emperor and destroyed by Hindu radicals in 1992.

"Remember Godhra?" the second attacker asked, a reference to the town in the Indian state of Gujarat where religious rioting that evolved into an anti-Muslim pogrom began in 2002.
Where the Attacks Took Place

Gunfire was reported at luxury hotels, a restaurant, police headquarters and a train station.
[Mumbai attacks]

"We are Turkish. We are Muslim," someone in the group screamed. One of the gunmen motioned for two Turks in the group to step aside.

Then they pointed their weapons at the rest and squeezed the triggers.

A few minutes later they walked upstairs to the terrace. Unbeknownst to the terrorists, four of the men were still alive; one of the survivors later provided the account of the shooting to The Wall Street Journal.

At the vaunted Taj hotel across the peninsula, two terrorists arrived from their attack on Cafe Leopold by about 9:45 p.m., broke down a side door and entered the building, according to a police officer investigating the attacks.

Two others entered the hotel's modern lobby, opened fire and threw grenades. As guests dashed for cover, the two pairs united. They would keep Indian police and commandos at bay for another 60 hours as they rampaged through the building.

Uptown, the two gunmen who had attacked the train station -- recorded by the station's surveillance cameras -- reached the nearby Cama Hospital for women and children, authorities said, shooting dead two unarmed guards at the entrance and racing up the stairs. By then, news of the attacks had spread in the neighborhood. A number of policemen ran into the hospital as nurses herded expectant mothers into one room and locked themselves inside, a duty doctor says.
Hotline Numbers

On the top floor, the terrorists and the police traded fire near a poster that reads "Mother's Milk is Best for Babies." The policemen were badly outgunned. The gunmen killed one officer and escaped down the stairs, into a narrow alley that separates Cama Hospital from another hospital called GT.

In the alley, the state of Maharashtra's antiterrorism chief, Hemant Karkare, sat in a police SUV packed with fellow officers, trying to coordinate a response to the mayhem engulfing the city. Creeping up, the two militants sprayed the vehicle with gunfire.

The officers appear to have died before any of them had a chance to fire back. The wall and metal blinds behind the van's spot are riddled with bullets. Not a single bullet mark could be seen by a reporter in the area from which the terrorists fired.

Dumping three of the officers' bodies on the ground and taking the others with them, the two militants jumped into the SUV and sped towards the Metro Big Cinemas multiplex. As they passed a crowd of journalists and onlookers, the SUV slowed down, a gun barrel emerged from the window, and bullets started to fly. Then, the vehicle sped on, with another police vehicle in hot pursuit. At one point, the gunmen ditched the SUV and hijacked a Skoda, police said, cruising through southern Mumbai -- possibly looking for an escape route. Two hours later, they ran into a large police roadblock erected on a key road leading out of south Mumbai, at Chowpatty Beach.

Skidding to a halt 30 feet away from the roadblock, the Skoda's driver blinded the police with high beams and, flipping wipers, began spraying fluid on the windshield so that officers couldn't see into the car, said sub-inspector Bhaskar Kadam, one of the officers manning the roadblock.

The three policemen armed with guns drew them. The nine others waved their bamboo sticks. Revving the engine, the car tried to U-turn but got stuck on the median. The man in the passenger seat rolled out and started shooting, killing one officer and wounding another. The surviving baton-wielding officers jumped on him, knocking him unconscious. Policemen with guns shot the driver dead.

This pair's killing spree was over. Police later identified the gunman taken alive as Mr. Qasab, from the Punjab region of Pakistan, who they say is providing details of the plot.

Back at the Taj Mahal Palace, staff members had been calling room after room, advising hundreds of guests to lock the doors, switch off all the lights, and hide, guests and staff said.

At about 11 p.m., K.R. Ramamoorthy, the 69-year-old nonexecutive chairman of ING Visya Bank, heard men in the corridor knock on his sixth-floor room, he says. "Room service," one of them called out in English.

Silence.

"Shoe polish," the same voice called out.

Mr. Ramamoorthy moved to the bathroom, accidentally banging the door. The two gunmen blasted the room door's lock open and entered. They tied Mr. Ramamoorthy's hands and feet, he says, using his long Indian top known as a kurta, and his pajama bottoms. Then they ordered him to kneel on the ground. "I'm 69 years old. I have high-blood pressure. Please let me go," he recalls begging.

"We'll leave you, we'll let you go," one of the men replied, he says. They turned him over so he lay face down on the floor.

Over the next hour or two, the two men spoke on their mobile phones in his room, seeming relaxed and happy, Mr. Ramamoorthy says. He couldn't tell much of what they said but made out the word "grenade" several times, he says. They ate some snacks from the minibar. Then, two more gunmen showed up in the room, dragging four other hostages -- all uniformed hotel staff.

"What are your names and occupations?" the men asked the five hostages.

"I am Ramamoorthy from Bangalore," Mr. Ramamoorthy says he replied.

"What is your work?" one of the assailants asked in Hindi.

"I am a teacher," he replied.

"No way can a teacher afford to stay here," shouted the gunman, he recalls. "You better tell us the truth."

"I work for a bank," Mr. Ramamoorthy admitted.

The assailants were distracted by calls on their mobile phones. Minutes later, pushing the five hostages in front of them, the gunmen descended the staircase to a fifth-floor room. They shoved the hostages inside, laid them face down on the floor, and left.

Mr. Ramamoorthy says he managed to free his hands and untied the others. By now, a fire possibly started by a grenade explosion was spreading through the sixth floor of the Taj hotel. As the choking smoke from the blazing fire enveloped the room, one of the four hotel staffers ripped off curtains and bedsheets, creating an improvised rope. The staffers used the rope to shimmy down the balcony outside to the third-floor ledge.

Certain he didn't have the physical strength to follow suit, Mr. Ramamoorthy backtracked and descended via the smoke-filled staircase to the third floor. Some time later, he noticed the glare of searchlights. He opened the window and waved and shouted. Firefighters saw him and lifted a ladder to the window. "You are safe," he says they told him. He looked at his watch. It was 6 a.m. Thursday.

As the fires set by the militants burned through the hotel during the night, the general manager, Karimbir Kang, was busy shepherding hotel residents like Mr. Ramamoorthy to safety. Mr. Kang didn't manage to rescue his own wife, Neeti, and two young children: They died in the blaze.

In the other hotel complex taken over by the militants, the Oberoi-Trident, gunmen returned to the 20th floor at around 6 a.m. Thursday. They pulled out their mobile phones and filmed the sprawled bodies of executed diners. The four injured men who survived the firing line there -- one squashed under two bodies -- were still playing dead, trying not to move.

"We'll booby-trap the bodies with bombs," one of the gunmen said into the phone. As soon as the two terrorists left, the four injured men crept out to a terrace and hid behind a cooling tower, says one of the men. For more than 24 hours, they didn't move from their hiding place, drinking small amounts of red liquid inside the cooling system to soothe their thirst, the man says.

Authorities had asked the Mumbai-based Marine Commandos to help at the Taj in the first hours after the takeover of the hotels. But the so-called MarCos struggled to figure out the entrances and exits in the hotel and found it hard to match the gunmen who moved with ease through the building and seemed to know the structure inside out. The gunmen also were accustomed to operating in darkness, a commander on the force said.

At 6.30 a.m. Thursday, commandos from India's National Security Guard finally arrived -- after they first waited for hours while authorities located a plane to pick them up at New Delhi, then waited for transportation from Mumbai's airport to the hotels under attack. The NSG commandos had proper equipment and training. They surrounded both the Taj and the Oberoi complex and a prolonged siege began.

The terrorists moved frequently through both buildings to confuse their pursuers and create the impression of greater numbers. Still, two of them found time on Thursday to call a local TV station to rant about India's mistreatment of Muslims.

As the fighting went on, new fires broke out at both the Taj and the Oberoi in the evening, sending plumes of smoke into the sky. "Every time the terrorists were in a corner and under stress...they set fire to the curtains," said J.K. Dutt, director general of the NSG.

By Friday morning, the NSG began to achieve real progress. At roughly 9 a.m. that day, Bill Bakshi heard a knock on his 19th-floor room in the annex section of the Taj. A diabetic who was running low on insulin, he peeked through the eyehole in hope of rescue and saw three uniformed men with assault rifles, he says. "They wouldn't say who they were," says Mr. Bakshi, a 63-year-old who owns a textile company. "They were scared, too -- they didn't know who was inside, either."

Mr. Bakshi opened the door. The next thing he knew, he says, he had three gun barrels thrust in his face. It took a couple minutes to convince the NSG men that he was not a terrorist, he says.

By late Friday morning, the NSG cleared out the annex section of the Taj, freeing hostages there. It also succeeded in storming the Oberoi, killing one gunman in a corridor and another in a bedroom. As they combed the hotel room by room, bringing out to safety the four injured men hiding behind the cooling system, the commandos found 32 other bodies inside.

At the Taj and the besieged Chabad House, the fighting continued. Two militants holed up inside the Jewish center had blown off the doors of the elevator on every floor, and used the shaft to hide whenever NSG commandos fired back.

It appears that they executed their hostages one by one as the commandos closed in. Two young women guests, their wrists tied with white plastic rope, lay on the same bed, bullet holes in their heads, according to a photograph taken later at the scene. The terrorists shot Rabbi Holtzberg and his wife, who fell next to each other. As darkness fell, NSG commandos blasted a wall with explosives and finally penetrated the building. They killed the gunmen.

At the Taj, the battle raged into Friday night, with one of the gunmen opening fire from a window and shooting at the hundreds of journalists who gathered to cover the siege on the plaza outside. None were hit.

By Saturday morning, however, the commandos had taken over most of the building. They set a fire to smoke out three surviving terrorists, cornered in a restaurant called Wasabi, up a spiral staircase from the lobby. Two of the gunmen were shot dead. The third was hit with bullets as he tumbled backwards out of a window and onto the plaza outside. "After that," said Mr. Dutt, the NSG chief, "There was no more shooting."
—Niraj Sheth in Mumbai and Krishna Pokharel in New Delhi contributed to this article.

[Raj Malhotra]

Mumbai is known to be target for terrorists. Now look at this:-

First terrorist shots were fired at Taj and Oberoi at around 9.30-10pm. Marcos reached around 4am in morning in Taj (while they did nothing in Oberoi) and NSG got into operation around 8am after 11 hours of first incident. Now point is what the Mumbai Police, its CP and DGP were doing from 10pm to 4am that is 6-10 hours when killings were going on in the heart of city. After sad demise of ATS personnel, were there no other person to take command? Governor House and all city politicians live within shouting distance of Taj, what were they doing, why additional teams could not be sent from Police HQ or why commandoes attached to security of say,Governor 5 min away, did not respond?


Why should the heads of Police CP, DGP & local SHOs not roll? How amny AKs rifles were there in Mumbai Police and how were they deployed or distributed? Mumbai Police especially DGP, CP, Deputy CM, CM have to explain movements between 9pm to 4pm which are full 7 hours!

Where were Taj security guards? Could such a big Hotel on terrorist hit list not hires retired commandoes? When did Taj call police?

Why did NSG move to airport and city by BEST Buses? wasting 2 hours in delhi /mumbai, were was the co-ordination to get IAF Helos? Note-This issue was raised in Akshardham also!

Why NSG was not armed with guns to shoot through walls? (like short barrelled shot guns firing explosive rounds)Note-This issue was raised in Akshardham also!

When NSG was called, why was IAF not called simultaneously to get helos/aircraft for fast movement?

Why there was no beat officer patrolling the sea coast, which should be normal? in Mumbai when cannot go five steps without running into cops!

Only 2 prahars were deployed by Navy till 4pm which is only 8x2=16 men, mumbai is important navy port, that is the only persons they had in naval colony colaba which is right at the site of tragedy? what was the exact time they were called (12am-1pm) and they could respond with only 16 persons in 3-4hours while being just a few hundred meters being away?

Why has the bureaucary read Cabinet secretary not developed a co-ordination for quick response from Services in time of crisis? why his personal permission is required? why should he be not dismissed for responding slow? why did whole of naval staff not act faster and with more men? Mumbai is heart of navy & colaba / gateway is the middle of heart, why did they respond with so few men and so slow? Why more commandoes not come from IA & IAF who also have stations not more than an hour away? what would have happened if the attack had taken place say in Aurangabad, would they brass/nsg/police respond after one week?

What is the amount of training a police cop gets for firing his weapon? I think one round per year on average! This is in bombay city with budget of city alone of 10,000 crore rupees per annum. why could not 10,000 insas rifle be procured and cops trained on them? cost only Rs. 20 crores!!!!!!

While NSG, Mumbai lower level personnel may have been good and acted bravely, their brass has to answer lot of questions!

[PNarayanan]

welcome to BRF, I bet you will be asked to change your screen name to some human sounding one.

Thanks Sudanshu - well i dont disagree with you but for very obvious reasons, i cant disclose a very "human" sounding name. Should the need arise, i wouldnt mind changing it to something suggested to me.

[R_Kumar]

Rahul in party mood soon after Mumbai crisis
Mail Today Bureau
New Delhi, December 1, 2008

Even before the tears of Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan’s mother could dry up, Congress general secretary and heir apparent Rahul Gandhi went partying with his pals at a farmhouse on Delhi’s outskirts....

http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... 2&Itemid=1

So this is our future king? Even currently living abroad and having 4 days of long weekend, I was just in front of my computer sad, angry, frustrated, worried and tracking the unfortunate event every minute and didn't even feel like calling back home which I do everyday. And this guy was doing party all night.

[Singha]

loyal servants of the Indic nation saar. the quality of human resource for The Dynasty has seen a steady dip JN -> IG -> RG before finally touching
rock bottom with Yuvaraj.

an evolutionary dead end that has chosen to inhabit our quadrant.

[narayana]

The Gruesome attack on mumbai,really for once i felt ashamed of being an indian, a country with a million strong army,and a billion people.and just a handful of 10-12 people took the whole city into hostage for 60 hrs!!!!!!,they were all killing spree from 9:20 to 10:30,what was happening,what was the administration the police force doing i just dont understand,the visuals shown on TV show a Police Bolero was hijacked and how they shot at bystanders,why couldnt the police stop them at next kilometer.and the siege of taj and oberoi,the way they held their forts for 60 hrs non stop without eating with out napping,they kept on fighting.how was it possible?where as 200-400 NSG commandos police army all of them couldnt take on them.instead we had many causalities,20 police and nsg commands dead,cheif of ATS killed.

10-12 terrorists who were trained for few months took on state trained elite forces of NSG and that at a ratio of 1:20 and still fought for 60 hrs.is really astonishing

i do respect the martyrs who died on this operation all from a hawaldar to a major who ever it is.but the amount of damage by those handful did to a reputation of a country was shocking,i couldnt even imagine we were such vulnerable,we are all discussing about billions of dollars of groshkov,mrca,brahmos akula,atv ads, in vain,this spineless govt.couldnt even react to the porki U-turn and they are ammasing their troops on the border,why there is no stringent action from our side even after 6 days of the incident.even On Times Now channel Arnab Goswami and Mahroof Raza grilled Rashid Qureshi,in such a strong words,they were literally whacking him,i wish our political leadership had that courage.

we should have evaporated the porki bunkers on the other side of the border using bofors or pinaka and later have DG meet and scaleback.

We were dreaming about a superpower status,and just see what happened,how shameful is this incident,our reputation took a beating,our morales took a beating,our economy took beating,can anyone imagine what could have happened if some of these guys travelled to bombay High or BARC.


my Salutes to the bravemen who fought a valiant battle and lost their lives,is there any fund where we can donate some amount for their families as a token of gratitude and respect,can BR start any fund like this,if so please let me know will be very glad to contribute

[Singha]

10-12 terrorists who were trained for few months took on state trained elite forces of NSG and that at a ratio of 1:20 and still fought for 60 hrs.is really astonishing

thats the beauty of assymetric warfare, choosing your battlefield and
knowing it well. "ratios" mean nothing if the battefield itself is constricted - remember thermopylae or the vietcong appearing and vanishing into
forest burrows?

btw dont assume all the people who participated are "kids" or that girlie
boy is telling the full truth. some of the candidates could be veterans of
terrorism , some could be older SSG types who were legitimately checked
in and checked out as "terrified guests" on the 2nd or 3rd day....

there is no need to get into self-flagellating mode and to see "hindu failings" where there are none.

[manjgu]

raj bhai.. u know this is india..

when the next strike happens.. we will be saying this issue was highlighted after 26/11 !!! as long as the netas have good security i am not expecting much to change... public should insist of downgrading of netas security as the first step..

i am of the opinion that more than outsiders coming in we should worry about traitors inside... without them these jokers will not be able to do even 1% what they did.. the underworld in mumbai, the fishing permits handed over to illegal b'deshis all over the coast, the unabated immigration etc.. no amount of stationing NSG at 4 ior 400 places, coastal police , CCTV etc.. etc etc... will solve the mess.

as i said in one of my earlier mails nobody is fixing responsibility of espicailly IAS etc.. where the hell did they disappear..and they want the highest salaries.. doing what?? u see any tragedy and the group totally missing are the politicaans and beauracrats..

[narayana]

Dont our units have NVG's(night vision goggles) and Thermal Imagine Scopes for the specialist rifles ?

Those MF's were starting false fires in rooms just to mislead the thermal imagers.

[PNarayanan]

So I think most of us, if not ALL agree that the Indian Govt (irrespective of the ruling party's allegiance - congress, bjp, whatever) LACK the Strength, Toughness and Will to REALLY IMPOSE Themselves on these terrorists.

I wanted to discuss with all my peers here about 2 things regarding this situation though -

A) Is the Govt really this weak every 5 years, no matter, whether its attack on parliament, bomb blasts in cities, or mumbai 26/11 or the next one , that its about just plain politics, " We shall be resilient", "noone will break our strength" type BS speeches.

Or is it that the Govt lacks the faith in our Armed Forces to get the job done. I mean comeon guys 10 years and more in a constant struggle, we have lost more lives in every shape or form, that if this were to be a 2-3month long "war on terror" with specific targets, the results would be much more satisfactory.


Well I have no comment on point A), as we know the govt is just full of "Gobar"

I do have to say a few things for point however -

1) EVERY single day, if you read any online news agency/website from india, it talks about a NEW defence deal, arms, support equipment deals/sales etc etc
2) 1.5 million + special forces + many other divisions, 4th or 5th largest Navy in the world, one of the best Air Forces, competing with one of the best at Red Flag 08 etc

I always wondered - Is this ALL self made propaganda or does this stuff all even work ??
Try not to think on the lower level AK-47 and its bullets, but the big picture

All these new missles, BVR's, Laser Guided , bla bla, etc etc, that you hear about, successfully tested, inducted, and other such stuff. Does this work in a real life situation ? Do we know ?

The last official war We Fought on a Global Level was 1971. (I am not including Kargil as a war, as it was not a direct india vs pak, crossing the LOC kinda fight. Even though pak regulars were dressed as militants and providing logistical support, but at the WAR level, as compared to any modern day war , US vs IRAQ, in afghanistan etc, Israel vs Lebanon etc)

So there is a LOT, LOT of Junk Metal sitting out there , pileups built up since 1971.

Now - The terrorists were Trained in Pakistan, Marine Training provided by EX-Pak Soldier, and professional training provided by PAK NAVY. They were asked to familiarize and trained to use GOOGLE EARTH to study the map of South Mumbai and the targeted area. So imagine - The average time a cadet spends in NDA - 3 years. The average time this group of guys spent together - 12-18 months. Not quite the same, they didnt learnt the command and respect of the ARMY, some of the finer military details , lifestyle and i am sure many other things, but they sure did endure physical training, marine training, even taught how to steer a boat, GPS systems, study maps, and ofcourse handle AK-47's, and explosives/grenades. So what we encountered was not your average "Haji Raghead", running around screaming with an AK.

So back to my original line of thought -

1) Do we have enough intelligence assets, equipment, infrastructure in place regarding these groups.
2) Do we have the equipment for tactical strikes
3) These kids used google earth to pinpoint directions from CST-Cama-Taj etc. We have god damn Satellites dedicated to these things - CAN WE NOT FIND OUT OR ALREADY HAVE INFORMATION ON WHERE A LET OR JEM CAMP WOULD BE ?
4) clearly this time the water has crossed over the dam. At what point are WE going to decide as a Nation to officially announce the War on Terror?

and not because of an unfortunate situation like Mumbai as the base (which it totally qualifies for), The WAR on Terror against these groups , this is the best time -
1) We have the international community affected. US/UK/ISRAEL/RUSSIA and many other national citizens.
2) Clearly If India were to launch a first strike against these groups, I am sure US/UK/ISRAEL for a fact wont have any probs with it.
3) US Economy is down and in a state of depression/recession. They, alongwith UK, with already sinking budget in their war on terror, are in no state to impose economic sanctions on india. France and Russia are already selling equipment to us. China, doesnt really care either ways. Indian Economy has been growing strong steadily in the past 5 years. A First Strike against these camps in retaliation, Can be easily affordable, sustained and handled by our country.
4) And besides, For EACH time an incident like this happens, lives are lost, people's mindset are scarred, and on the other side, you see a Brahmos, Prithvi, Agni, ARJUN MBT, etc etc on display on Republic Day, Its like - Are you kidding me?? For ALL I know Pakistan and the terrorists are much stronger than us because We have never done anything with it anyways.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards.

[Lalmohan]

planning, recon, logistics, intel and training - all provided by 'competent' people; several hundreds involved - no prizes for guessing who they might be. ironic twist in the piracy activities on the Kuber following on so recently from the Somali incident

foot soldiers on the ground followed the plan, checked in with their handlers by mobile as per the reports coming out. these piglets have probably undergone SSG training either directly or indirectly. piglets would have taken injuries and continued with their mission - flagging slowly "woh loge to bore hoh gaye thay..." according to NSG commando; even this takes training and preparation

could a lashkar camp have the facilities required for this level of training? either way, the line between state and non-state actors blurs to the point of being irrelevant

I have a number of retalliation scenarios in my head - I don't think we should discuss these options on BRF. the piglets have been watching CNN, no doubt their handlers surf BRF too...

but know this secret lurkers - sooner or later - Indians will respond - one way or another.

[PNarayanan]

Dont our units have NVG's(night vision goggles) and Thermal Imagine Scopes for the specialist rifles ?

Those MF's were starting false fires in rooms just to mislead the thermal imagers.

Hi Narayana, I actually doubt if any of our NSG guys had any kind of Thermal Imagery devices. with NVG's - The targets would be neutralised before the long ordeal of a search and fight mode, and then starting fires in the room.

We just didnt use the latest equipment, even though we have purchased it from Israel.

[Sai]

WSJ _ I have removed the headline which is a psyops one intended
to blame the victim, but it does have details not known elsewhere.

This is quality journalism. Telling a story as it ought to be told.

Our media isn't just biased, it is also downright mediocre. Maybe mediocrity is the root cause of the rot within the media.

[Suppiah]

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/01m ... o-quit.htm

Dont expect to read about this in the rapist thugs' yellow media...internal power struggle among the dynasty's a..h..e lickers. Who licks last licks the longest and survives. Rest goes.

[Sumeet]

Terror has no religion, do not go soft: Muslim cleric

Lucknow: Going soft on terror will not make Muslims happy as the perpetrators of such acts do not segregate their targets by religion, the cleric who heads Lucknow's oldest Islamic seminary has said after the daring Mumbai attack.

"If the politicians of this country think that by shying away from taking on terrorists directly and by going soft on terror they will get kudos from Muslims, they are sadly mistaken," said Lucknow's Naib Imam Maulana Khalid Rasheed, who also heads the Firangi Mahal seminary.

"It is quite clear now that Indian politicians of all shades were somehow living under an illusion that if they were to turn harsh against acts of terror, they would alienate the Muslims of this country," Maulana Rasheed told IANS in an interview.

"They ought to realise that the perpetrators of terror do not segregate their targets in terms of religion, and the victims of terror too cut across religious lines. When you count dead bodies, the first thing that hits you is the horror, not the religion of those killed."

Over 180 lives were lost in the Mumbai attack in which terrorists struck at 10 prominent locations in the city November 26 night and carried on for nearly 60 hours.

Maulana Rasheed, who wondered "when will these politicians change their mindset, said, "I could see fear and apprehension in the utterances and eyes of each of the leaders - cutting across party lines - as they appeared on various TV channels throughout the three-day-long ordeal in Mumbai".

He is surprised that some parties thought Muslims in India did not appreciate any criticism of Pakistan.

"What is worse is that leaders of some parties have even begun to think that any criticism of Pakistan would not be relished by this country's Muslims," he lamented.

"When will they ever realise that by doing so they are clearly reflecting their perverted psyche of labelling all Indian Muslims as pro-Pakistanis, which is the worst abuse for any Indian Muslim."

Maulana Rasheed is also irked about the Centre's move to invite the chief of the Pakistani espionage agency Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) to assist India in tackling terror. Pakistan has responded by saying it is willing to send an ISI representative.

"India's bid to invite the ISI chief after the Mumbai attack is like asking a criminal to help the police contain crime," quipped the Maulana.

He said "the move has only undermined India's strength and reflects the total lack of self-confidence in the leaders of this country".

[Suppiah]

Let us look at the bright side.

The jehadi pigs have done India a huge favor by killing a few Americans and westerners. You would now expect Uncle to take matters more seriously. By targeting Jews, they have done us a even bigger favor, since now an equally ruthless bunch of killers is going to go after them. Our eunuch regime will be forced to get rid of some eunuchs finally, though only few months of damage is left.

The anti-Hindu sewage rowdies that call themselves rational in TN will not dare to ask favors on behalf of LTTE at least for a few more weeks after which it may be too late.

Last but not the least, third rate hotels that would not rate more than $50 per day in KL or Bangkok will no longer call themselves 7-star and charge $400 per day. Their arrogant gooses have been cooked to perfection.

[Rahul M]

Those MF's were starting false fires in rooms just to mislead the thermal imagers.

Hi Narayana, I actually doubt if any of our NSG guys had any kind of Thermal Imagery devices. with NVG's - The targets would be neutralised before the long ordeal of a search and fight mode, and then starting fires in the room.

We just didnt use the latest equipment, even though we have purchased it from Israel.

PN, please understand the gravity of the situation. most of us are feeling stressed and on edge.

It took me enormous self-control not to blow my top at your post. BR expects members to do their own research even in normal circumstances and this is beyond that.

What you have casually commented as " I actually doubt" has been asked and answered at least 3-4 times on this very board. Making ignorant comments about the NSG at such times may be considered derailing or even inflammatory.
Do us and yourself a favour and read the past issues of this thread and also the pictures thread. that should answer most of your questions. at the very least search with the keywords NVG and like.
Do It. Please.

If you have any more queries after that, those would be welcome but do keep in mind that expert comments from armchair generals are NOT welcome on BRF.

Rahul.

[munna]

Times Now currently reporting that the IP address of the Deccan Mujahideen e-mail has been traced to Pakistan, Lahore. The news is live currently, apparently the US agencies have been instrumental in establishing this fact. The mail was sent from La(w)hore via Russia using relay servers.

[Murugan]

Those MF's were starting false fires in rooms just to mislead the thermal imagers.

why did they put the hotel rooms on fire during the day time? to mislead the thermal imagers?

According to DG NSG< they were putting the rooms on fire when bracketted by NSG, to delay NSG taking position and take advantage of the confusion thus shifting the 'battle zones'

[PNarayanan]

PN, please understand the gravity of the situation. most of us are feeling stressed and on edge.

It took me enormous self-control not to blow my top at your post. BR expects members to do their own research even in normal circumstances and this is beyond that.

What you have casually commented as " I actually doubt" has been asked and answered at least 3-4 times on this very board. Making ignorant comments about the NSG at such times may be considered derailing or even inflammatory.
Do us and yourself a favour and read the past issues of this thread and also the pictures thread. that should answer most of your questions. at the very least search with the keywords NVG and like.
Do It. Please.

If you have any more queries after that, those would be welcome but do keep in mind that expert comments from armchair generals are NOT welcome on BRF.

Rahul.[/quote]

Hi Rahul,
just to clarify a few things - I dont think we have to be stressed or over the edge, but anyways, since you mentioned it, I shall respect your state of mind. My intention was not to make the NSG look bad, infact in my post i have utmost respect for them. I am just stating the observations from what I saw of the live action, the equipment of what they were carrying. I have looked at the various pictures (specifically to the incident, not from what a typical NSG training would look like), If i failed to find a picture of an NSG commando with NVG or similar equipments, my apologies, but i would like to see 'em.

Yeah, i know the BOLD is supposed to mean, you are annoyed or its an angry tone, but with all due respect - I am not making an expert comment as an armchair general. I think i would like to say i have enough personal experience to share/talk about few things, if not all, with topics related to this forum or on BR site.

Thanks for letting me know of your feedback. Please be a bit more patient with new members. Not everyone is going to Ready 40 pages of Thread, everytime before making a comment or something they wish to share.
Cheers!!!

[p_saggu]

Someone mentioned a Terror training camp. I was browsing wikimapia and searched for LET and this is what I found. This is allegedly a terror training camp. I have labelled it as was given in wiki.
Clearly there is not much infrastructure around to destroy, and such a camp can be set up almost anywhere. Wasting a missile costing several crores of rupees over this collection of huts is justified only if this was full with the training class in session, otherwise it is just a few huts. It could be any thing too...

[Manu]

This whole thing has gone completely out of hand now.....

(1) There is still no word as to what happened to the initial estimates of 20 terrorists. I have a gut feel that some are on the run and are, at this very moment, hiding in Nagpada, Agripada, or Dongri...take your pick. I have ZERO trust in this Sarkaar and the Police Set up in Maharashtra. They will NEVER admit to the facts that the Paki terrorists received Local Muslim help.

(2) There is still an effort on to fudge the numbers of dead. Unofficial estimates, per the TOI, are well over 200 as there are folks who claimed that more than 160 bodies were recovered from Taj Alone. Official estimates are at 99. Dead foreigners is at 22. There is one, particularly gory picture of a bunch of dead foreigners in the Oberoi huddled and bullet riddled bodies lying on the floor, below their table at a restaurant. The grusome torture that the Jewish Hostages went through (including the wife of the Rabbi) is also being downplayed.

(3) For once, try to think like a Pakistani. I am not being funny or sarcastic. How would you feel if you were asked to 'respond" to a Government that accuses you of harboring, aiding and abetting terrorists, when the same UPA Govt., over the past two months, has been shouting from the rooftops that the "real terrorists" are Hindus. The whole Manufactured investigation into the Malegaon 'conspiracy" has had the following positive results for the Pakis:

(a) Terrorists have no religion. It is certainly not Islam in any case.

(b) 90% of the "ATS" was involved in "solving" the Malegaon case - how does one go after the Terrorists "who have no religion"? After Mr. Karkare's unfortunate (and unnecessary) death - this story will be permanently closed. But the damage has been permanently done.

(c) The Samjhauta Blasts investigation was directly harmed because of this tamasha (Blaming Lt. Col. Purohit for the RDX used in that Blast, when the official GOI stand was that no RDX was, infact used). Then, the public prosecutor, realizing that he had made a Freudian slip, hastily said (or was told by the conniving Netas) that the Media has misquoted him, although this is a statement he used (is on record) to get Lt. Col. Purohit's remand extended.

(d) Even when the Americans (who are getting blamed by one and all on here) directly pointed to Paki links in the Kabul Embassy bombing (see New York Times), what did MMS & Co. do about it? Why should the Pakis take him seriously now?

(e) Then, the "PM" called an all Cadre Cops meet. In the meet, he said we must investigate the links of all Hindu Orgs. to terrorism, irrespective of whether they have history sheets or not. Said the Cops must be "highly sensitive" to sentiments of "minorities". It's not even an equal = = equal being attempted.

When our OWN PM loses sleep when an Indian Muslim Terrorist is being investigated overseas, calls Kandhamal a National Shame (not the murder of the Hindu priest), aids in the manufacturing of false evidence against "allies" of the opposition (Abhinav Bharat, with whom BJP has no link, an inconvenient fact), the entire state machinery (including IB, RAW, "ATS") is busy cooking up the case against the BJP - it gives the casual observer the impression that the Indian State is at war with itself. "Saffron Terror" was the real menace. The Army was being Demoralized. Even though we know that SIMI members have morphed into the IM, the UPA allies want to lift the Ban on it and went to Azamgarh to the Dead terrorists house to "pay their respects". They have all of a sudden become very patriotic after the Mumbai incident. The same BS line about the marginalized Muslim minority is repeated ad nauseam. When we have living proof of the educated Muslim (earning 30 lacs + ) planting bombs to kill innocent Women and Children, taking inspiration from the Quranic Concept of War.

Now, tell me, should Gilani or Zardari bother?

The Indian Muslim is a Sacred Cow, Pakistan is also a victim of Terrorism (MMS own words) and there is a real danger of "Saffron Terror". Did I miss out anything?

What we have here, Gentlemen, is a Government, that has actively worked against National Security in their lust for staying on in Power, whatever be the cost.

And the Chief Secretary of Maharashtra (the biggest crook), Cabinet Secretary, Principal Secretary to Prime Minister, heads of RAW & IB and MKN MUST be Fired and their Confidential Reports must state why they are being dropped. They were all doing Political Espionage for the Raj Mata, not defending the Fundamental Right to Life of an Indian Citizen.

Lastly, George J, keeps repeating that the IT-Vity Folks will pressurize the "PM" not to take any steps (as if he needs pressure to stop him from doing anything), they should know one thing - the next Big one, and yes, there will be more, will be in the very heart of an It-Vity Campus. Then they will around like headless chickens blaming the Govt. You cannot solve the problem of Terror by better policing and effective laws alone. You have to go to the source and cut off the head.

But, and I say this seriously, more than Islamic Terrorism, I am scared of the UPA and their allies.

[Raja Ram]

A word of friendly advice to New Members wanting to post on this forum. It is understandable that the recent events have made quite a few of you very angry and some of you may have even stumbled on this site and forum as a result of your tracking of the events.

It is also quite likely that the forum and its contents have made a difference in these times. As a place where concerned Indians try and understand the madness and see what needs to be done.

But please, all of you, DO NOT POST on the threads for now. This forum is what it is because of a lot of effort by the admins here and the long standing members. All of us have gone through this impulse. I strongly advise you all to stick around and just read up on the posts here and also take the time to go through the website, read a few articles, READ and UNDERSTAND the forum guidelines.

When you do that you will be able to appreciate this forum a lot better and we too will be able to appreciate and welcome your points of views.

I am not part of the power set up that runs this place but an old time rambler who posts occassionally. So this is just a request. Take it from this old timer, you will not regret heeding to this bit of unsolicited advice.

Thank you all.

[PNarayanan]

Someone mentioned a Terror training camp. I was browsing wikimapia and searched for LET and this is what I found. This is allegedly a terror training camp. I have labelled it as was given in wiki.
Clearly there is not much infrastructure around to destroy, and such a camp can be set up almost anywhere. Wasting a missile costing several crores of rupees over this collection of huts is justified only if this was full with the training class in session, otherwise it is just a few huts. It could be any thing too...

Hi P_Saggu,
thanks for finding that image from wiki. well whether its not a real picture of a fully established camp or not, its still a camp. and i agree a missle costs a lot, but i think at the size of a Nation, and a missle going into the heart of this camp, is WELL WORTH IT. it shows that they can run but cant hide, and WE OWN THEM, not the other way around. and ofcourse such a strike would have to be supported with strong and smart intel, who's in the camp, whats happening, whats the damage assessment, success rate, and ofcourse for LGB's or smart munitions, you will need eyes on the ground or a UAV as well to designate the target.

[narayana]

Yeah, i know the BOLD is supposed to mean, you are annoyed or its an angry tone, but with all due respect - I am not making an expert comment as an armchair general. I think i would like to say i have enough personal experience to share/talk about few things, if not all, with topics related to this forum or on BR site.

Thanks for letting me know of your feedback. Please be a bit more patient with new members. Not everyone is going to Ready 40 pages of Thread, everytime before making a comment or something they wish to share.
Cheers!!!

Hello Narayanan,welcome to BRF,i dont know about you but last few days were very stressful for everyone,i think almost everyone who has love for this country was badly disturbed i hope the situation with you was also same.

Regarding Forum Moderators,just think all of us were venting our anger on this forum and they may had a very hard time compiling them or editing them,they are also stressed out they are also shaken by this massive attack.if you think from rahul's point of view you can understand,and i do agree you will need more time to settle down as you are new comer,My experience is that the admins are patient and they take the scissors only if things go out of hand.

So lets keep the good spirit and continue.

Rahul sorry for writing on your behalf if you dont agree with my point,anyway,from a point in my last note,do we have any fund where we can make a humble contribution to the brave hearts?if not on BR if you know any other please let us know,i am sure many here would be willing.

Thanks to All

[Sanjay]

Johann, one thing I find truly offensive is the insinuation that we Indians can't analyse anything clearly at this moment because emotions are high. Not accusing you of anything personally but...

I find that to be a widespread opinion perpetuated by the Western media. Our anger is real. But we are not morons - we can still think and analyse.

The SWAT teams of the US did not exactly cover themselves in glory at either Columbine or Virginia Tech. Where in the US did they actually come under fire enroute to the site ? Israel you say has improved since Ma'alot. Yes it has - and India improved after Blue Star and Black Thunder. Israel has not faced any fidayeen attack of this nature for a long time.

Furthermore, if you base your assessment of what happened at CST is based on a photographer saying he saw masses of armed policemen at CST, then you are being very selective in your choice of information.

There were a total of 6 supposedly armed policemen at CST. Their armament at best was with 0.303 rifles. How many were felled in the initial fusillade we don't know. One did shoot back. We don't know if others did.

Raj - your questions are the ones on everybody's minds. I am led to understand that the arming of Mumbai's police has not been pursued with any degree of urgency. I am tempted to take up a collection ! Money was diverted to by sedan cars.

Amazing isn't it - even Bihar and UP procured several thousand SLRs and are putting some of their units through Indian commando training.

[Neela]

Terror has no religion, do not go soft: Muslim cleric

Lucknow: Going soft on terror will not make Muslims happy as the perpetrators of such acts do not segregate their targets by religion, the cleric who heads Lucknow's oldest Islamic seminary has said after the daring Mumbai attack.

"If the politicians of this country think that by shying away from taking on terrorists directly and by going soft on terror they will get kudos from Muslims, they are sadly mistaken," said Lucknow's Naib Imam Maulana Khalid Rasheed, who also heads the Firangi Mahal seminary.

"It is quite clear now that Indian politicians of all shades were somehow living under an illusion that if they were to turn harsh against acts of terror, they would alienate the Muslims of this country," Maulana Rasheed told IANS in an interview.

"They ought to realise that the perpetrators of terror do not segregate their targets in terms of religion, and the victims of terror too cut across religious lines. When you count dead bodies, the first thing that hits you is the horror, not the religion of those killed."

Over 180 lives were lost in the Mumbai attack in which terrorists struck at 10 prominent locations in the city November 26 night and carried on for nearly 60 hours.

Maulana Rasheed, who wondered "when will these politicians change their mindset, said, "I could see fear and apprehension in the utterances and eyes of each of the leaders - cutting across party lines - as they appeared on various TV channels throughout the three-day-long ordeal in Mumbai".

He is surprised that some parties thought Muslims in India did not appreciate any criticism of Pakistan.

"What is worse is that leaders of some parties have even begun to think that any criticism of Pakistan would not be relished by this country's Muslims," he lamented.

"When will they ever realise that by doing so they are clearly reflecting their perverted psyche of labelling all Indian Muslims as pro-Pakistanis, which is the worst abuse for any Indian Muslim."

Maulana Rasheed is also irked about the Centre's move to invite the chief of the Pakistani espionage agency Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) to assist India in tackling terror. Pakistan has responded by saying it is willing to send an ISI representative.

"India's bid to invite the ISI chief after the Mumbai attack is like asking a criminal to help the police contain crime," quipped the Maulana.

He said "the move has only undermined India's strength and reflects the total lack of self-confidence in the leaders of this country".

Sumeet , could you please post this in the "Political roots...." and "Indian response..." thread too.


This is a keeper.

[Nitesh]

Security forces to get two dedicated planes
December 01, 2008 16:03 IST

Faced with criticism that an aircraft was not available to quickly ferry the National Security Guards (NSG) to terror-hit Mumbai, the government has decided to hasten the procurement of two planes for dedicated use by the central paramilitary forces, including the NSG.

"We have decided to hasten the process of procuring two aircraft for the NSG and the paramilitary troops. We are trying to get these aircraft as soon as possible," Home Ministry sources said.

The Border Security Force (BSF) will fly these aircraft, as it is the only paramilitary force to have its own air wing.

"The process of procuring two transport aircraft was already on, but we were looking at different options available in the global market," sources said.

The BSF is planning to induct these aircraft into its inventory to ferry troops and cargo to places where it is deployed. The dedicated fleet for the Special Forces, however, will be augmented in 2011 when the Indian Air Force (IAF) receives the first of its six C-130 J Hercules Special Operations aircraft from the US.

The IAF is planning to base all these aircraft in Hindan near here, as most of the Special Forces' units are based around the capital or at short distances from here. The aircraft would be placed there to cut down the response time of elite commando units such as the National Security Guards (NSG) during terror strikes or hijacking in other parts of the country.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/01m ... forces.htm

[shyamd]

US masses naval-air-marine might in Arabian Sea opposite India, Pakistan, Iran

Three US aircraft carriers with strike groups, task forces and nuclear submarines have piled up in the waters of the Arabian Sea opposite the shores of India, Pakistan and Iran, and in the Persian Gulf.

DEBKAfile's military sources report that the US began massing this formidable array of floating firepower at the outset of the Islamist terrorist attack on the Indian city of Mumbai last Wednesday, Nov. 26.

Tehran responded typically with a threat of retaliation should the Americans decide to use the Mumbai terrorist attack to hit Iran.

It is more likely, according to our military sources, that the Americans are on the ready in case the rising tensions between India and Pakistan over the New Delhi's charge of Pakistani involvement in the Mumbai atrocity explodes into an armed clash on their border.

This is indicated by the units now deployed:

1. the USS John C. Stennis, which carries 80 fighter-bombers and 3,200 sailors and airmen and leads a strike group..

This carrier joins two already there, the USS Theodore Roosevelt, which patrols the northern Arabian Sea, part of whose strike group cruises opposite Iran's southern coast; and the USS Iwo Jima, which carries a large marine contingent on board.

2. New to these waters, according to DEBKAfile's military sources, is the Destroyer Squadron 50/CTF 55, which has two task forces: Patrol Forces Southwest Asia (PATFORSWA) for strikes against warships and the rapid deployment of marines to flashpoint arenas; and Mine Countermeasures Division 31, which stands ready to prevent New Delhi or Islamabad from mining the Arabian Sea routes connecting their ports.Those routes are vital waterways for US marine traffic supporting the war in Afghanistan.

3. To manage this armada, the command and control vessel, USS Mount Whitney, has been brought over from the Mediterranean.

4. Four nuclear submarines.

The arrival of the southwest Asian marine patrol carrier Stennis and the Mount Whitney to the Arabian Sea opposite Iran's shores set alarm bells ringing in Tehran. Our Iranian sources note that the Islamic republic's rulers remember that after al Qaeda's attack on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, the Americans did not only invade Afghanistan, but also Iraq and they fear a similar sideswipe.

The Iranian chief of staff, Maj. Gen. Ataoallah Salehi sounded a warning when he stated Sunday, Nov. 30: The "heavy weight" of enemy warships provides the Iranian side with an ideal opportunity for launching successful counter-attacks.

[Austin]

Just buy a Boeing 737 -800 commercial type jet , if you need to transport quickly with cargo ...... you dont need all the cool gadgets like Mr PM has in his jet.

If there is a will they can lease 2 jets immediately and place an order which they may get in 2 years with basic self defence system.

But then I guess this will be quickly forgotten 6 months down the line when things cool.

[Tanaji]

Vilasrao is tipped to be replaced by another bozo of the same mould of Shivraj Patil: Sushil Kumar Shinde. He spouts the same stuff as Shivraj Patil: I am here because of Madam

There is no hope.

[JaiS]

link to SkyNews site of video of pig being beaten/captured though its really hard to make out much

http://tinylink.com/?Ne30V3s0xn

Hello Vinay,

Thanks for posting. From the link, Sky News presents it's POV of the incident.

Sky News has obtained mobile phone footage of alleged terrorist Ajmal Qasab being captured and beaten following the attacks that killed more than 170 people in Mumbai. It is thought he was the only attacker to survive. Alex Crawford reports.

[Nitesh]

the email has been trace to pukistan

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/videoshow/3780597.cms

[milindc]

Per CNN-IBN
India demands Pak to hand over Masood Azhar and Dawood

[Singha]

do these idiots every learn. I too can demand a bailout pkg be handed over to me, but will get only laughter in return.

kill 5 of them and cause signifcant economic mayhem also (ports, ships)
and then demand 2 more be handed over or else "more pain will be dished out"

Paki armed strength is at a historic low in this juncture. let alone amritsar , they cannot move properly around lahore once we reach their POL stocks.

not even the local pickpocket hands over the stolen wallet without a couple
of slaps and dandas being dished out.

and we demand and hope Unkil will deliver

[ajayv]

hi there. Was wondering is it possible for a couple of BR members to visit Captain Amitendra Singh of the NSG at Bombay Hospital with a bouquet of flowers and a letter on behalf of all BR members lauding his daredevil acts of courage ? All opinions welcome. Thanx.

[Austin]

hi there. Was wondering is it possible for a couple of BR members to visit Captain Amitendra Singh of the NSG at Bombay Hospital with a bouquet of flowers and a letter on behalf of all BR members lauding his daredevil acts of courage ? All opinions welcome. Thanx.

Yes good idea , we can do that , but we need to be sure if civic are allowed to meet them

[pradeepe]

US masses naval-air-marine might in Arabian Sea opposite India, Pakistan, Iran

Three US aircraft carriers with strike groups, task forces and nuclear submarines have piled up in the waters of the Arabian Sea opposite the shores of India, Pakistan and Iran, and in the Persian Gulf.

DEBKAfile's military sources report that the US began massing this formidable array of floating firepower at the outset of the Islamist terrorist attack on the Indian city of Mumbai last Wednesday, Nov. 26.

Tehran responded typically with a threat of retaliation should the Americans decide to use the Mumbai terrorist attack to hit Iran.

It is more likely, according to our military sources, that the Americans are on the ready in case the rising tensions between India and Pakistan over the New Delhi's charge of Pakistani involvement in the Mumbai atrocity explodes into an armed clash on their border.

This is indicated by the units now deployed:

1. the USS John C. Stennis, which carries 80 fighter-bombers and 3,200 sailors and airmen and leads a strike group..

This carrier joins two already there, the USS Theodore Roosevelt, which patrols the northern Arabian Sea, part of whose strike group cruises opposite Iran's southern coast; and the USS Iwo Jima, which carries a large marine contingent on board.

2. New to these waters, according to DEBKAfile's military sources, is the Destroyer Squadron 50/CTF 55, which has two task forces: Patrol Forces Southwest Asia (PATFORSWA) for strikes against warships and the rapid deployment of marines to flashpoint arenas; and Mine Countermeasures Division 31, which stands ready to prevent New Delhi or Islamabad from mining the Arabian Sea routes connecting their ports.Those routes are vital waterways for US marine traffic supporting the war in Afghanistan.

3. To manage this armada, the command and control vessel, USS Mount Whitney, has been brought over from the Mediterranean.

4. Four nuclear submarines.

The arrival of the southwest Asian marine patrol carrier Stennis and the Mount Whitney to the Arabian Sea opposite Iran's shores set alarm bells ringing in Tehran. Our Iranian sources note that the Islamic republic's rulers remember that after al Qaeda's attack on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001, the Americans did not only invade Afghanistan, but also Iraq and they fear a similar sideswipe.

The Iranian chief of staff, Maj. Gen. Ataoallah Salehi sounded a warning when he stated Sunday, Nov. 30: The "heavy weight" of enemy warships provides the Iranian side with an ideal opportunity for launching successful counter-attacks.

So this is from Debka, but if true, is there any reason, why this isnt similar to the 7th fleet steaming into the BoB. To hand out white and pink water lilies of course. Nothing sinister.

[Hiten]

Can we not effect a stoppage of Pakistan's IMF loan?
They are desperate to get this loan and the Saudi's and Chinese have alredy refused to give them any.

An 8-10 month delay in giving them a loan followed by extremely humiliating pre-conditions imposed on them for this loan would in IMO be a far more effective measure than blockade of Gwadar.

This will also throw its military acquisition plans off track as it would be forced to divert money to their bhooka-nanga awaam

[Vivek_A]

Debka is BS. Sometimes they regurgitate articles from AP/AFP/Reuters. But debka exclusives like this are almost always BS.