Indian Response to Terrorism

[Manu]

While Pujya Pradhan Mantri said this: Link

Of all his formulations, the one that has returned most often to haunt Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is the assertion that Pakistan too, like India, was a victim of terrorism. The macabre irony embedded in the peculiar hypenation plays itself out in a ghastly re-run with every terror strike. Not only do wolves usually don't really change colours, what was remarkable about Singh's statement was it came barely two months after the 11/7 Mumbai train bombings where the government saw a Pakistani hand. His tough-sounding words after the massive November 26 attack on Mumbai — that he would "take up" with neighbours the use of their territory for launching strikes against India and that "individuals and organisations" behind the outrage would be hunted down — sound like a tinny, worn out record. Even the PM's aides might find the cowboy act a little hard to swallow.
The point really is whether the government is flexible to the point of bending before every storm. Soon, after Congress's political calculations ruled out special anti-terror laws, the PM developed an amnesia that afflicts politicians. Until the fidayeen struck Mumbai. "Existing laws will be tightened to ensure there are no loopholes for terrorists to escape," the PM intoned on Thursday. Disbelief wrestled with incredulity.

No one really believes any laws will be added or changed. The promise of a federal investigative agency has been part of a file in PMO for many months now.

After having bought into the political argument that anti-terror laws "target" minorities, Congress has found it difficult to retrace its steps. Yet, with each succeeding terrorist atrocity, the pressure to be seen to be doing something has increased. But the PM has sought to make concessions that Congress is not prepared to underwrite.

Apart from the India-US nuclear deal, the PM has tended to see peace with Pakistan as part of his legacy. But even as he built useful CBMs with Musharraf, the bid to de-militarise Siachen shocked the armed forces which felt the plan was ill considered. Today, the "mountain of peace" line seems more tacky than it ever did.

This is what the Outlook Magazine thinks our response should be:
What are India's Options?

So what are the options that India can exercise in the aftermath of the Mumbai terror attack?

If the politicians are to be believed, there was a lot of sabre rattling at two meetings held by the government on Sunday, November 30 night. While the all-party meet called by the government was a more sedate affair, an earlier meeting organised exclusively for the UPA and its allies, held in Parliament was more telling. A representative of the Samajwadi Party is said to have suggested that this was a good time to "bomb Islamabad!" {As I had said, the Azamgarh Mafia has temporarily become very patriotic}.

Fine. Let's bomb Islamabad, assuming we have the capability to do so and that the frontline aircraft of the Indian Air force are all serviceable, the MiG-21s ready to escort the bombers, and we can launch a full-scale military attack by penetrating the secure skies over Islamabad and then bomb it back to the stone age.

But are we really ready for a war?

Our air force, sanctioned 39.5 combat squadrons, is down to 30 off squadrons, our armoured corps doesn't have the tanks to roll in, our infantry is horribly tied up in counter-insurgency operations, our soldiers and officers are poorly paid and cheated in pay commission after pay commission, while we talk about "bombing Islamabad." {And this is the Fault of the Spanish Socialist Party, I presume?}

{And now, the Author comes up with some Bizzare suggestions}

This is the time to look for partnerships in intelligence gathering -- not just the non-functional anti terror mechanism that was set up earlier, but a mechanism that produces hard, actionable intelligence that can be put to good use.

The overhaul, if the political leadership is willing, will have to happen over months, and perhaps years. {What have they been doing for 4 and a half years then?} But if politics goes back to the usual set of empty promises, the usual rhetoric and the usual coteries, that will be an attack on the very idea of India itself.

[pran]

India's response to terrorism

But for slain major, not even a dog will visit his house

'If it had not been (Major) Sandeep's house, not even a dog would have glanced that way.'

This was how Kerala [Images] Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan heaped scorn on Monday on the family of NSG Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan, who was killed in the Mumbai terror attack during commando operations, igniting a controversy after smarting under the snub from the father of the angry officer when he went to Bangalore to offer his condolences.

If we are expecting our ruling class to give a response that will act as a deterrent to Pakistan we are all on dope. Like it not, the Pakis have won.

Before we even do the unmentionable to the pakis, this resident scum needs to shaved ,paraded thru every town square on a donkey and every citizen be allowed to kick and pi** on him. What a scumbag... This is a sample of what guys like Sandeep protect with their lives , may be one of NSG should put him out of his misery and spare the country of his presence.

[RajeshA]

X-Posting from IWT Thread:

Question for those who know:

Is it possible legally to just leave the the Indus Water Treaty? To terminate the Indus Water Treaty unilaterally?

Should India threaten to suspend the IWT as a response to the Mumbai attack? What is stopping us from doing that?

This measure has been questioned before on BRF, if I am right.

I do think, that as far as IWT is concerned, should India even allude to actively considering scrapping Indus Water Treaty, Pakistan can be brought to its knees. This is a major weapon in India's hands and we should use it. It is non-violent and effective.

The problem today is that there is no strong constituency in Pakistan willing to take on the extremists there. Now if the farmers in Pakistan become terrified that water would be turned off and that Terror Attacks in Mumbai are responsible for this, then maybe the feudals could consider some form of active opposition to the Jihadi Army. After all the Army too comes from the people (they do go a further brainwashing course before induction).

I have been jingoistic on these lines before.

[Ujjal]

A Paki is a Paki is a Paki. A confused Paki is still a Paki. A sold-out Paki is still a Paki.

Let's not directly jump into conclusions that Zardari is/can be India's man of the moment. How do you know Zardari is not controlled by the nuts by eye-ass-eye?

How's this attack beneficial to Zardari?

- Bring the confused people of Pakistan together against India (excluding the WKK-types) - as we all say that whenever India tightens her pants
- Bring new GOTUS closer to Kashmir issue - encourage mediation
- "Threaten" GOTUS to pull "his" troops out of AF-TSP border if GOTUS doesn't come help solve the Kashmir issue or calm India down or give new weapons or $$

Right now, nobody likes Zardari. His popularity rate is negligible. He has to do something to turn things around - otherwise face a coup. He knows what ISI did to him. But, at this moment, he is helpless. Before BJP comes to power, this is his time to gain whatever his masters want. Build a solid foundation for future begging and demands from GOTUS - before the BJP govt. gets to have any say.

[A_Gupta]

FYI:
http://www.juancole.com/2008/12/pakista ... d-new.html

and a previous:

http://www.juancole.com/2008/11/india-p ... heney.html

From the first one:

The sole captured LeT operative, Kamal, is said by the Indian press to be from Faridkot village near Dipalpur Tahsil in Okara District of Pakistani Punjab, southwest of Lahore [I saw one article, which I can no longer retrieve, in which the Indian press mispelled the tahsil or county as Gipalpur]). This is such a remote and little-known place that even Pakistani newspapers were having difficulty tracking it down).
....
The Kashmir police have gotten good enough at counter-terrorism measures that elements of the LeT may have decided to go after a soft target such as Mumbai instead.
....

[A Arun]

Iss Baar Nahin

Is baar jab woh choti si bachchi mere paas apni kharonch le kar aayegi
Main usey phoo phoo kar nahin behlaoonga
Panapney doonga uski tees ko
Is baar nahin

Is baar jab main chehron par dard likha dekhoonga
Nahin gaoonga geet peeda bhula dene wale
Dard ko risney doonga,utarney doonga andar gehrey
Is baar nahin

Is baar main na marham lagaoonga
Na hi uthaoonga rui ke phahey
Aur na hi kahoonga ki tum aankein band karlo,gardan udhar kar lo main dawa lagata hoon
Dekhney doonga sabko hum sabko khuley nangey ghaav
Is baar nahin

Is baar jab uljhaney dekhoonga,chatpatahat dekhoonga
Nahin daudoonga uljhee door lapetney
Uljhaney doonga jab tak ulajh sake
Is baar nahin

Is baar karm ka hawala de kar nahin uthaoonga auzaar
Nahin karoonga phir se ek nayee shuruaat
Nahin banoonga misaal ek karmyogi ki
Nahin aaney doonga zindagi ko aasani se patri par
Utarney doonga usey keechad main,tedhey medhey raston pe
Nahin sookhney doonga deewaron par laga khoon
Halka nahin padney doonga uska rang
Is baar nahin banney doonga usey itna laachaar
Ki paan ki peek aur khoon ka fark hi khatm ho jaye
Is baar nahin

Is baar ghawon ko dekhna hai
Gaur se
Thoda lambe wakt tak
Kuch faisley
Aur uskey baad hausley
Kahin toh shuruat karni hi hogi
Is baar yahi tay kiya hai

--- Prasoon Joshi

[svinayak]

The difference between the govts is POTA

And that would be the panacea for all that ails us? If this attack was carried out by Pakistanis from Pakistan, what could POTA have done?

That is only the beginning. Find out what POTA means on the ground.

[pradeepe]

Johann,
The US has only kept Pakistan in this state choosing to be its main source of sustenance
since it serves its purpose. We know well enough what that is. The much vaunted FBI apparatus
covering up for the ISI exposes the agenda pretty well. The bogey of the US also being a victim
doesn't hold water. I view the US and UK as complicit in acts of terror against the
Indian state.

In the same vein the threat of nuclear terror and a nuclear exchange between India and pakistan
is also a situation "enabled" by the US. We have seen that well exposed on BRF. Does it sound foolish?
It sure does, but not a surprise for those who have watched the US - just look at the kinds of folks
and entities the US has nourished over the years. Maybe its not even foolish, chaos and mayhem
leads to a world full of uneasy people. Not necessarily a bad thing for some folks.


So while suggestions of co-opting sections of the pak establishment and talk about using force as a means
to an end and all that is a good read and will even have me shaking my head in agreement if coming from
an India well wisher. It holds little water if its a western opinion, when the same west is looking to
undermine and bleed India in multiple ways. And before examples of how the US and UK have infact helped India
in instances get paraded around, lets see complete evidence of this, not isolated instances.
There's a lot of ground to make up if things have indeed changed.

The US would like nothign better than the TSPA snapping at the heels of India for as long as possible. That serves
one of its purposes. The rabid dog being put out of its misery is of no use to the west.

[brihaspati]

In between all our strategies for liquidating Pakistan, is anyone thinking of possible remnants from the groups that entered to "do" Mumbai on behalf of the LET,ISI-Tale,qaeda brigade still surviving out somewhere within India? The most likely places fro them to hide out will be various large concentrations of Muslims. Foreign Islamic terrorists have one big disadvantage - they will not have the proper language skills and accents except in the North-West, (the overlap region of Bengali speakers in the east is relatively safe - my theory is that the Islamics do not jeopardize safe-havens or where there is a sufficiently high proportion of Muslims in the population that can also suffer substantially from indiscriminate attacks - attacks in WB could also trigger a "right wing" backlash from people at the end of their tether with the "nakhras" of Trinamool and the Left, thereby jeopardizing the soft transit from Bangladesh) and will need to submerge themselves within local Muslim communities. I have a nagging suspicion that this was just a testing operation and the other modules have simply melted into their community hide-outs and waiting to see how things turn out. We can expect another one soon perhaps and most likely far from Mumbai - Rajasthan, and the deep south. I am not sure that the Islamic theologians will have sufficient foresight not to play into the Pakistani elite's gameplan of coercing US support by blackmailing on the basis of supposed "tension" by provoking India - they also probably already have come to an agreement with the Taleban (could be out of necessity as its lower cadres in the army are probably already siding with the Taleban in the north) to make the move on India - target to disconnect Jammu and thereby Ladakh in a single move while pretending to thrust to the centre and west.

[ramana]

They will head to Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh. Looks like only INC state govts are the soft targets. Most INC state govts are a nest of scorpions ready to back stab each other and thus facilitate such attacks.

[pran]

Don't forget the hornet's nest, Kerala and West Bengal. You will find Chinese and Pakis.

[brihaspati]

I have already stated that WB satisfies two criteria for not attacking publicly - it is a safe haven, and with high Muslim proportions - also the soft transit from Bang factor. WB is also a weak impact site - not one of the strongest of financial/economic hubs. Kerala is more likely than WB, agreed, but it can jeopardize leftists one of the strongest bastions of support for Islam. They need to be able to move quickly from their hideouts - this makes the west, middle Deccan, and Rajasthan/Punjab most likely.

[ramana]

It will be a INC state as there is a inherent problem of confusion between terrorists and minorities. So they the response will be slow and give chance to make mayhem.

I think the soft targets (high profile city, foreigners etc.) will be Hyd and then B'lore now that there is BJP govt to show it too is weak.

[Prem]

They will head to Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh. Looks like only INC state govts are the soft targets. Most INC state govts are a nest of scorpions ready to back stab each other and thus facilitate such attacks.

Cleaning these nests with local and Paki coackroaches is more important that going to war. Let many Salwa Jadums bloom with real Indians manning them.

[trivedi]

Two poems worth quoting.

नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है
- डॉ. विवेक शर्मा (Dr. Vivek Sharma)

गर्जन दे, मुझे वह सामूहिक गर्जन दे,
जो गोली की हर गूँज को दहला दे,
फूटते बमों की वहशत को ठुकरा दे,
जो रिसते घावों की, आहों की,
तर्जन को हमलावरों का हाहाकार बना दे,
गर्जन दे, मुझे वह सामूहिक गर्जन दे |

कह नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है,
जब मेरा घर, मेरा देश जलता है, नहीं चलता है,
नहीं भूलता है, जब भय गलियों में पलता है,
नहीं टलता है प्रचंड जब समूह का क्रोध उभरता है,
दे दर्शन मुझे, अस्वार्थी इक लय, इक हुंकार का,
कह नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है |

जब तलक गन्दा लहू बहता हैं, घाव पकता है,
कुछ कैंसरों को सिर्फ़ काट के गुजारा चलता है,
जब तलक कांटे हैं राहों में, पाँव छिलते रहेंगे,
भीरु हिरण भेड़ियों के हाथों मिटते रहेंगे,
परशुराम की प्रतिज्ञा दे, दे चन्द्रगुप्त-चाणक्य का साहस दे,
हर वीर को अर्जुन-भीम, कृशन-बलराम के बल का अट्टहास दे |

सिसकता है योधा नहीं माँ की बाहों में,
झिझकता नहीं है चन्द्रशेकर खतरों की छावों में,
इक मत हो, इक हित हो, इक लक्ष्य भी,
यहाँ आनंद मठ हो, शान्तिनिकेतन भी, रणबांकुरों का आश्रय भी,
मिट्टी से उठे हूंक, हर लक्ष्मीबाई, भगत सिंह, महाराणा जाग उठे,
टीपू-तांत्या की तलवार, शिवाजी का प्रतिशोध, सत्तावन का हलाहल जाग उठे |

कह नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है,
घूंस खाता है, फूट फैलाता है, समूह का हिस्सा चुराता है,
बारूद और वर्दी को जो दुश्मनों को बेच खाता है,
भूल जाता है ऊँची इमारतों में बाहरी ग्रीष्म ग्लानियां, मानसूनी भूखमारियाँ,
भूल जाता है गावों, फुटपाथों, बसों में बेकाबू हसरतें, हिमाकतें, बइमानियाँ,
जो टलता है, मजबूरन या बेहिचक गुनाह करता है, नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है |

आज गर्जन दे, मुझे वह सामूहिक गर्जन दे,
वंदे मातरम में फ़िर वही दंभ, वही तर्जन दे,
बंद मुठी में सरफरोशी की तमन्ना का तराना दे,
इन असुरों के खात्मे के हर तरीके का बयाना दे,
दे इक मत, इक हित, इक लक्ष्य; दे साहस, प्रतिज्ञा, गर्जन,
कर, कह - नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है, नहीं चलता है |

Is baar nahin - Prasoon Joshi

Is baar jab woh choti si bachchi mere paas apni kharonch le kar aayegi
Main usey phoo phoo kar nahin behlaoonga
Panapney doonga uski tees ko
Is baar nahin

Is baar jab main chehron par dard likha dekhoonga
Nahin gaoonga geet peeda bhula dene wale
Dard ko risney doonga,utarney doonga andar gehrey
Is baar nahin

Is baar main na marham lagaoonga
Na hi uthaoonga rui ke phahey
Aur na hi kahoonga ki tum aankein band karlo,gardan udhar kar lo main dawa lagata hoon
Dekhney doonga sabko hum sabko khuley nangey ghaav
Is baar nahin

Is baar jab uljhaney dekhoonga,chatpatahat dekhoonga
Nahin daudoonga uljhee door lapetney
Uljhaney doonga jab tak ulajh sake
Is baar nahin

Is baar karm ka hawala de kar nahin uthaoonga auzaar
Nahin karoonga phir se ek nayee shuruaat
Nahin banoonga misaal ek karmyogi ki
Nahin aaney doonga zindagi ko aasani se patri par
Utarney doonga usey keechad main,tedhey medhey raston pe
Nahin sookhney doonga deewaron par laga khoon
Halka nahin padney doonga uska rang
Is baar nahin banney doonga usey itna laachaar
Ki paan ki peek aur khoon ka fark hi khatm ho jaye
Is baar nahin

Is baar ghawon ko dekhna hai
Gaur se
Thoda lambe wakt tak
Kuch faisley
Aur uskey baad hausley
Kahin toh shuruat karni hi hogi
Is baar yahi tay kiya hai

[Manu]

Isolate terror, do not secularise it! - From Indian Express

By S Gurumurthy 01 Dec 2008 02:04:00 AM IST

“The mounting evidence” says The New York Times (28/11) quoting American intelligence and official, “indicate that Pakistani militant group based in Kashmir, most likely Lashkar-e-Toiba, or possibly another terror group in Kashmir, Jaish-e-Mohammed, was responsible for the dastardly attack” on Mumbai on November 26. ‘The Mumbai terror has been planned for the last six months’ and ‘the terrorists came from Karachi; they landed on the Indian coast through boats; they were trained by Pakistan Navy for 12 to 18 months; Dawood Ibrahim’s local infrastructure had provided the logistics for the attack; the terror bears the Inter- Services Intelligence (ISI) stamp’, say the media reports citing Indian intelligence and Mumbai police. All this point to the Jihadi character of the terror. The Jewish religious head in Mumbai and the white foreigners staying in hotels as special targets of the terrorists who allowed Turkish Muslim inmates of Taj Hotel to escape because they were Muslims reinforced the view that the terrorists were part of the global Islamist terror network against non-Muslims (Kafirs).
Yet the Home Minister first and the Prime Minister later made statements on November 27, warning that the terrorists would pay for their crime, but, did not utter a word about who were the terrorists, and where they came from.


Then entered the Minister of State for Home Affairs Sri Prakash Jaiswal. He provided the comedy in an otherwise grim tragedy that Mumbai was experiencing for nearly 48 hours. He told the media on November 28, ‘terror could be a conspiracy hatched by right-wing Hindu parties’. Hindu parties — read the BJP? Yes. So Pakistan, or Lashkar-e- Toiba or Jaish-e-Mohammed or other Jihadi outfits are not the prime suspects! Following this line the Chinese People’s Daily suspected Hindu terrorists as the culprits! But most secular media in India fortunately dismissed the junior minister’s statement as just a juvenile prank. As his state minister was striving to make those who cry laugh, the Prime Minister stepped in to supplement his junior minister’s efforts to humour the nation. On that very day, he invited the chief of the ISI — the main suspect in the terror on Mumbai — to come to Delhi.


Why? To share info on the Mumbai terror with the main conspirator! Is it that the PM too was cracking a joke like his junior minister by inviting the ISI chief ? The ISI continues to be, as it always was since 1959 when it was born, hostile to India. On August 1, 2008, The New York Times reported, citing US officials, “American intelligence agencies have concluded” that Pakistan’s ISI had “helped plan the deadly July 7 bombing of India’s embassy in Kabul” that left 58 dead and 141 wounded. As his junior minister spoke of Hindu terrorists as suspects, the Prime Minister invited the ISI chief, a well known jihadi who was involved in the jihad in the July Kabul attack to assist in investigating the Mumbai terror. That is, the Prime Minister was asking the main conspirator, ISI, to catch the other perpetrators – namely, the Jihadis whom it had trained to attack India! Normally such an act would be a subject of a cartoon.

Read together what Jaiswal said in Mumbai — namely, the terrorists were from Hindu political parties — on November 29 — and what Dr Singh did in Delhi on the same date – namely, invite the ISI chief to probe the Mumbai terror.

Did the Prime Minister take his minister of state for home so seriously that he wanted the Hindu angle to the Mumbai terror — some Advani or Modi involvement — to be jointly investigated by the IB in India and the ISI in Pakistan? Or did he expect the ISI to confess to its involvement? Or did he think that the ISI has suddenly shed its enmity and turned its admirer under its secular leaders Sonia Gandhi, a Christian, and himself, a Sikh? But fortunately for India, the Pakistan government refused to send the ISI chief to India. The world would have laughed at India if the ISI chief had come to India and declared to the media that the ISI would ‘co-operate’ with the IB to catch the culprits! What has done India into this mess?

It is the Indian polity’s inability to say plainly that Islamic terror is a global phenomenon, and it is extending itself into India through global Islamic network.

Result, instead of isolating the terror, the national political discourse began secularising it. The seculars saw normal anti-terror laws as anti- Muslim laws by showing the number of detainees under the law which contained more Muslims.

They refused to acknowledge that global Islamic jihad appeals only to Muslims and not to other communities.

How then to maintain arithmetical parity between communities in the arrests under the anti-terror law? Once it is conceded that a terrorist has no religion, the person detained for acts of terror also has no religion.

How then could detainees under POTA be seen as Muslims and others? More, this secular formulation has facilitated the free entry of global jihad.

More, the national discourse, instead of protecting the local Muslims from global jihad, has not only exposed them to it, but also encouraged the process by integrating anti-terror laws within secular vs communal discourse.

In the discourse anyone opposing strong antiterror laws became instantly secular, and any one supporting it instantly communal. Consequently, terror became secular, and anti-terror laws became un-secular. Thanks to this debasing secular debate, the UPA repealed the POTA as its first job. The result is for all to see.

In the last four years and more, the terror attacks have accounted for more than 4,000 lives and in the last one year our terror toll had been more than that of — believe it — Iraq.

The next perversion followed the first.
The secular discourse instead of isolating the jihadi outfits like the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) worked to make the unwary local Muslims identify with, own such outfits.

Take the example of the ban on SIMI. The BJP-led NDA had banned it in 2001 and the Congress had opposed it, saying that the ban had targeted the Muslims. This secular perverted discourse made the unwary Muslims own the SIMI about which most of them perhaps knew nothing except that the ‘anti-Muslim’ BJP had banned it and the secular parties — read pro-Muslim parties — had opposed it! The UPA first lifted the ban, but reimposed it but not before allowing the SIMI to grow into an Indian LeT. Why not ban the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, asked the Congress and the seculars, when SIMI was banned. But little did they realise that VHP can and should be banned if it indulged in terror, but not to justify the ban on SIMI. See what this secular perversion translates into. One, the state cannot act against the SIMI unless they find some Hindu outfit to act against. {I hope folks now understand the background to the whole Malegaon Tamasha}

Two, the state cannot detain or act against a terrorist unless it can find terrorists from all communities. QED: terror stands secularised, not isolated in secular discourse! How will India fight terror with this cerebral paralysis?

Before we start blaming the Foreign press & leaders, please see what is happening within. See the statement of Minister of State for Home - Prakash Jaiswal - Even a Paki will not speak like this - are we not A Banana Republic?

[RajeshA]

As far as cricket is concerned with Terrorists, may BCCI should let it be known, either you play with us, or you play with them.

[trivedi]

At a press conference that followed his rolling out his national security team, Obama, when reminded that during the campaign he had said if there was irrefutable evidence of Al Qaeda [Images] leaders and training camps in Pakistan he would go after them with or without Pakistan's permission and asked if India has that same right, replied, "Sovereign nations obviously have a right to protect themselves."

Give this man a cigar! (We don't need Unkil but this is the farthest any significant US politician has stepped away from the usual contrived neutrality)

[Lalmohan]

As far as cricket is concerned with Terrorists, may BCCI should let it be known, either you play with us, or you play with them.

at the moment i don't trust BCCI - they need to decide if national pride is more important than money...

[rsingh]

There is no Indian response to Terrorism.............so may be we call it day and close the thread.

[enqyoob]

As Miller said to Mallory in "Force 10 From Navarone", rsinghji, "Let Nature Take Her Course! Give Her Time!". That was as they waited after the blasts to see what the dam would do.

The thread title says:

INDIAN response to terrorism

NOT

PRESENT GOVT of INDIA's response to terrorism

Either (a) and (b) will occur, or there will be (a) without (b).

[SwamyG]

Nature's course? In tamil they say "Pala naal thirudan oru naal agapaduvan" {meaning: A thief will be caught some day} Hmm. Paki and Western Media have been escaping for so long....wonder when will nature help us. Maybe nature is waiting for us to help it to help us.

[enqyoob]

"Nature" is the aam admi and aurat in this case, I fear. Both in India and the US. Time to get organized and seriously kick some terrorist-supporting musharrafs.

[NRao]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/171248

This Fire Needs to Be Put Out
The horrific attacks in Mumbai should be a call to arms for the region.

By Fareed Zakaria | NEWSWEEK
Published Nov 29, 2008
From the magazine issue dated Dec 8, 2008

My first memories of the Taj Mahal hotel are probably of when I was 8 years old, going to the Sea Lounge restaurant with its lovely view of Mumbai's harbor to eat sev puri, a savory Indian treat. I also remember passing through its grand ballroom a few years later, while it was being decked out for a dinner in honor of the president of Bulgaria—crystal chandeliers, ice sculptures, bouquets of roses, platters of shrimp carted around by liveried waiters. My family would celebrate special occasions at the Golden Dragon, one of the best Chinese restaurants outside of China. The Taj is a fixture in the life of Mumbaikers (or Bombayites as we used to call ourselves). Last week, those memories came flooding back as I watched from New York, and saw the Taj hotel on fire.

The terror attack on Mumbai has been called India's 9/11. For me there is another similarity; like 9/11, this attack hit close to home. My brother worked next door to the Twin Towers, at the World Financial Center, on 9/11 and he evacuated his office staff when the first plane crashed. I knew people who worked in the World Trade Center and some who died there. This time, the tragedy is also personal. My mother's office is in the Taj hotel (she is the editor of the Taj Magazine). Luckily she was out of town on the day of the attack. My brother-in-law and niece, however, were in their apartment, which overlooks the Oberoi, the other hotel that was attacked. A dozen commandos took over their apartment, positioned snipers at the windows, and began giving and receiving fire. (My niece is keeping the bullets as souvenirs.) And as with 9/11, I know people who have died. The general manager of the Taj hotel, a young man, lost his family.

These kinds of events bring out the best in ordinary people. There are reports of hotel employees taking pains to get guests out of harm's way, at risk to their own lives. Some of the freed hostages have told stories of the bravery of the Indian armed forces.

But not everything went well. By all accounts, the initial response of the local authorities was slow, haphazard and incompetent. These terror attacks have highlighted one of the key weaknesses of modern India. Its private sector is dynamic, efficient, responsive. Its public sector is not. Government in India is dysfunctional. With the exception of a few elements of the national government—the armed forces and antiterror commandos, for instance—the Indian state is simply not up to the challenge that it now faces. India has a decentralized political system that is plagued by weak coalition governments, patronage and corruption, with little emphasis on professionalism and competence. If this is India's 9/11, then it should be a spur to the country to finally get its house in order and reform itself to succeed in an age that requires smart government.

India also has a political problem with its Muslims. It remains unclear whether any Indian Muslims were involved with these attacks, but it is quite possible that the terrorists had some small pockets of support in the country. President Bush likes to point out that India has 140 million Muslims and, because it is a democracy, not one is a member of Al Qaeda. Even if this is still true, it is simplistic. The cancerous rise of fundamentalism and radicalism that has swept up Muslims everywhere has not spared India. In addition, Muslims there are disaffected and vulnerable to manipulation. They are underrepresented at every economic, political and social level—with a few high-profile exceptions. A perverse consequence of the partition of the Indian subcontinent is that Muslims are everywhere a minority—which closes off the chance at political power. (The parts of British India that had Muslim majorities became Pakistan and Bangladesh.) They have not shared in the progress of the last two decades and face a Hindu nationalist movement, parts of which are ugly and violent. None of this is to excuse in any sense the cruel choice anyone might make to join a jihad. But moral clarity does not always yield intellectual clarity.

This is not just India's problem. The terrorists seem to have had foreign connections. This might have included Qaeda support, though more likely inspiration. They almost certainly got both support and training from groups in Pakistan. Let us assume that the Pakistani government was in no way involved. There remains the basic and enduring problem: the Pakistan government has created, supported and trained Islamic jihadists for decades. The Pakistani military needs to genuinely embrace the idea of zero tolerance for jihadists, not distinguish between good ones (those that keep Afghanistan and India on edge) and bad ones (those that set off bombs within Pakistan). These groups blur into one another and cannot easily be segregated. And they are all enemies of modernity and democracy.

The problems of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh are now bleeding into one another, and any purely national approach is not going to work. The best outcome of these attacks would be if they spurred cooperation and reform. If instead they feed rivalry, bitterness and finger-pointing, the victims will have died in vain, and there will be more victims and an insecure neighborhood.

The crucial point is to remember the common enemy. When discussing causes and cures, never forget who is to blame first and foremost: the terrorists, the evil men who chose to deliberately kill innocent men, women and children, to burn young families to death. They are the ones who did it.

And while Indians have many troubles, they have one great counterterrorism policy—resilience. The Mumbai stock exchange reopened last Friday and closed higher. The country will persevere, the city will bounce back, and all those who have reasons to go there should not be deterred.

I have a trip to India planned in a couple of weeks. I'll be there as scheduled. And I will make a special point to pay a visit to the Taj Mahal hotel in Mumbai, which I am sure, will be humming with life.

[hnair]

Johann, when YOUR first line grumbles about racism, I know my work is done I feel like the Indian team in Australia. Anyways, there are enough people who are doing the honors to your various points and I feel honored to join "The abhishekcc club" of people who got admins sic-ed at them for wondering aloud on your intentions Again, I have no intentions of targeting you over this again, but if you come and wag your finger at US during a time of great hurt and prod us with your boot-toe to act against our govt, that is not cool.

Rahul M, gangs of urban areas in the west are very, very important to India. Let me explain.

A lot of them are motivated, have grievances, but do not have institutional support of another state like the paki scum. But the highly public Battle of Mumbai was a deal breaker for the west, which they belatedly realized (CNN ain't no saint to yank action off their channels on the third day). It has given a lot of people a lot of knowledge about:
1) dispersal
2) comms
3) NVG countering
4) media management
5) setting up HQs
6) onsite surveys
7) targeted killings of top police officials.

Remember tsunami derision of GoI efforts by the west? And then the Katrina disaster happened. The whole world can put two and two together quite fast and realizes the western vulnerabilities with every such supercilious behaviour by the west. Particularly people who are looking for chinks in the armor. And those people are not us, Indians.

I do not want a Katrina moment in this unpleasant field to happen in the west. Why? Because all said and done, they are the only game in town to tame Middle-east and also to control their hound, the crazy PLA. And they wont allow anyone else to act, thanks to globalization profits. If a breakdown of their civil societies occur due to such attacks, which I am sure everyone including Johann knows can happen quite easily, it is the PLA that will take advantage and that is disastrous for us. Gangs are a manifestation of social rebellions in the west and *could* be fueled by inimical powers, if they prove they have military value. That they have an economic model is a typically western interpretation of the "root causes". To me, minority gangs of west are just some pakis waiting for an ISI to exploit them.

[ramana]

In the early 90s there were reports of PRC/PLA shipping Chinese made single shot AK-47s with the automatic mode enablers also supplied to LA gangs. Then the story died down.

[Vikas]

Thus spoke the village buffoon

'If terrorists are showering their bombs of violence, let's reciprocate with roses of love in thousands and more', says Aamir Khan.

If the bomb goes off in his compound with few causalities, I will see how many roses of love he would send to TSP - Army.

[ramana]

Ind Exp- Ediorial on Kerala CM's insensitive remarks

Comrade’s tribute: a dog won’t visit your home

Posted: Dec 02, 2008 at 0313 hrs IST
The Kerala Government hurt the sentiments of the family of Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan by not sending its representative for the funeral of the Malayali NSG commando who died battling terrorists in Mumbai. Its Chief Minister today added insult to that injury when he said, “Even a dog would not have glanced at that house had it not been Sandeep’s residence.”

Sandeep’s father Unnikrishnan had snubbed Chief Minister V S Achuthanandan and Home Minister Kodiyeri Balakrishnan when they came to his house on Sunday after he repeatedly declined to see them. Sandeep’s father Unnikrishnan was upset that none of the Kerala ministers called or visited to offer condolence while their counterparts in Karnataka did.

So the commando’s father asked them to go back. “I have lost all respect for you, VS,” he said. Later, he clarified that the politicians arrived after he repeatedly said no and admitted that he “responded badly.”

Talking to Times Now, Achuthanandan said: “I have respect for Sandeep, his mother and father. If it had not been Sandeep’s residence, not even a dog would have glanced at the house,” he told the channel. “I did not expect such a reception.” There is widespread outrage among politicians of all shades over the Chief Minister’s comments. BJP state president P K Krishnadas said Achuthandanan has become a disgrace for the state. “VS inflicted wounds on that bereaved family. He should quit the post,” he said. “When People’s Democratic Party leader Abdul Nasser Madani was acquitted in the Coimbatore serial blast case, three ministers of the Left Government turned up for the reception in Thiruvanananthapuram. The CPM has proved that the party would honour anti-nationals and insult those who have sacrificed their lives for the nation.”

Radhakrishnan said Achuthanandan’s comment is aimed at killing the NSG hero again. “While the entire country is saluting Sandeep’s supreme sacrifice, his home state is insulting him,” he said. A CPI MP from Kerala, who preferred anonymity, said Achuthanandan’s comment on Sandeep’s family was unwarranted. “He has raked up a controversy unnecessarily. It has really embarrassed all of us,” he said.

Opposition leader Oommen Chandy said: “Every Keralite, every Indian, should take pride in his sacrifice. He had embraced death for the nation. Post-death, he should not have been drawn into an unnecessary controversy.”

Time to go?

[Vivek K]

Time to kick his butt out the door! The b$st$rd

[ManuT]

After reading MA.E.O.A Kerala CM remarks to Major Unnikrishanan father he head should be on the chopping block.

Also, this Naqvi joker.

We need to do this clean up these politicians before we can think of fighting terrorism.

[ramana]

Which naqvi joker?
Meanwhile two stories

It’s not enough for Muslims to be revolted by terror

It’s not enough for Muslims to be revolted by terror


SULTAN AL-QASSEMI
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is time for Muslims to take a serious stand against the perpetrators and reclaim the religion, says SULTAN AL-QASSEMI.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“They knock on my door aggressively but I don’t open it, I stay very quiet.” The caller pauses briefly before continuing. “But I am fine.” These were the words of the UAE national, Rashid al Owais, a 40-year-old marble trader whose business took him to Mumbai last week. Rashid, a Muslim and an Arab, was among the hostages of the co-ordinated terrorist attacks by a cowardly crew of criminal gangsters. He was speaking to Dubai TV on Thursday night from his hotel room in the Oberoi Trident, where he had been holed up since the beginning of the siege. Naturally, the UAE was one of the first countries to condemn this “reprehensible crime”.

Nothing, the key word


The situation of the UAE is unique: Its ties with India go back hundreds of years, and it is a country where the peaceful Indian community constitutes a majority of the foreign residents.

The Organisation of the Islamic Conference, an association of 56 Islamic states, also condemned the terror attacks stating that “these acts of violence contradict all human values and can be justified by nothing”. Nothing is the key word here.

Since the evil attacks of September 11, moderate Muslims dread the news of yet another “holy attack” in which the name of their religion — which means peace — is used as an excuse for bloodthirsty savagery.

In fact, there is an unannounced air of relief among Muslims whenever perpetrators of violent attacks turn out to be from non-Islamic fundamentalist backgrounds. Such was the case during the Virginia Tech University massacre in April 2007 in which 32, mostly students, were killed by a South Korean.

We like to remind others that, like Rashid al Owais, Muslims are victims of terror too. We also are mindful of other notorious non-Islamic groups that perpetuate violence, including Eta in Spain and the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.

Symbol of humanity


The latter are responsible for up to 60,000 deaths and more than 200 suicide attacks, one of which took the life of Rajiv Gandhi, the former Prime Minister of India. The perpetrators of last week’s Mumbai attacks could not have chosen a more powerful symbol of humanity than India, with its beautiful mosaic of ethnicities — a mosaic that will undoubtedly continue to shine, despite the crimes of an unrepresentative minority who hijack Islam whenever the state of their miserable existence dawns upon them. India is a proud nation in which the Hindu majority embraces many minorities such as Muslims and Christians, and where they are able to dream and flourish. This is the country of Jainulabdeen Abdul Kalam, who, as a poor boy in the mid-20th century, was forced to sell newspapers to pay for his studies, but who grew up to be elected as the 11th president of over a billion people earlier this decade. This is the country, too, of Azim Premji, a young Stanford graduate who had the opportunity to turn a fledgling family business called Western Indian Vegetable Products Limited, into a global software giant now called Wipro, making him, until recently, the richest citizen.

This is the country of Shah Rukh Khan, an orphaned Muslim boy who rocketed into movie stardom and, yet, respects the religion of his wife and continues to place the Holy Quran next to Hindu Gods in his house. This is the country of the Taj Mahal, the most magnificent Islamic structure in the world, built by the Mughal Emperor, Shah Jahan, in memory of his wife, Mumtaz Mahal.

But, most importantly, this is the country of the everyday man and woman, Hindu, Christian and Muslim, who wake up each morning and often embark on a journey that could last several hours, leaving their loved ones behind to build better lives for their families. This vision of humanity is at odds with the beliefs of terrorists, brainwashed thugs, who also leave their homes and embark on a journey — but in their case to commit murder.

Psychological strike


It is not enough for moderate Muslims to be revolted by the attacks in Mumbai as we have been revolted by the attacks on the New York office towers, Amman wedding, London transport system, Madrid trains, Beslan school, Jerusalem pizzeria, Baghdad markets and numerous other places. It is time to take a serious stand against these perpetrators and reclaim our religion. Muslims must be more vocal in their sentiments regarding such criminals, and Islamic states must counter this behaviour proactively.

To borrow from an unpopular phrase, the Islamic states must launch a psychological pre-emptive strike against these terrorists and, more importantly, those who encourage them. Muslim preachers who fail to condemn terror must either be re-educated or discredited completely, and those who excuse terror using certain conflicts as a pretext must be silenced because the poison that they spread today will come back to haunt us all tomorrow.

Some media outlets can also act as a conduit for the terrorists’ propaganda. The stories of reformed radicals such as Sayed Imam, also known as Dr Fadl, must be highlighted to the ignorant minority. Our message must be clear: “These acts of violence contradict all human values and can be justified by nothing.” Nothing.

(The author is a Sharjah-based businessman and graduate of the American University of Paris. He is the founder of Barjeel Securities in Dubai. This article was first published in The National, Abu Dhabi. [email protected])

Has any IM leader written like this even in urdu?

[Vikas]

Ya allah!! What did we do to deserve such political class. For the most horrible things, there is a saying on our side of the world,"You would have murdered cows (Go-Hatya) in past life to deserve this".
I will never understand what is this with Indian Political & RAPE class that they can't even behave like human beings.
I mean the Man lost his young son defending the motherland and this scum can't even keep his mouth shut, forgetting saying even a single word of respect for the slain soldier. Across the spectrum the so called leaders simply have no respect left for Indians.
The same guy would go bare feet to pay his respects to some god forsaken mass murderer from commie/Muslim nations.

How does one combat this cancer without committing suicide?

[munna]

Also, this Naqvi joker.

We need to do this clean up these politicians before we can think of fighting terrorism.

The whole Naqvi issue is nothing but a pathetic attempt straight out of the Musharraf of the sarkari spin-meisters to do an equal equal between the evil BJP and the Congress. The poor chap was condemning those elite Lipstick-Powder and Suit-Buit type WKKs who after every terrorist attack light up candles and make blanket statements like "Vapourize all politicians" instead of blaming their own ignorant/monkey brains approach towards country's polity and its dynamics. I think people need to seriously see through the propaganda where by a sound byte totally taken out of context is being moulded to deflect the public anger away from the government. If somebody needs further clarifications they are more than welcome.

[munna]

I will never understand what is this with Indian Political & RAPE class that they can't even behave like human beings.

Vikas and other forumites please do not buy into the sarkari propaganda of entire political class being nincompoops and low lives. This is a massive failure of the CURRENT GOVERNMENT and rest all is hog wash to deflect the attention away from the core decision making body of India and that is 10 Janpath. Commies such as in Bengal and Kerala were never known to be humans.
In giving a firm response to terror India today is hobbled only by the wrong set of people occupying power not only in Delhi but also within the ruling party. There are good people in all parties, do support them and you shall see action. Blaming one and all is like saying there is no difference between Osama and Obama just because their names rhyme!

[Prem]

Please dont laugh at GOI.
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... 0-suspects
NEW DELHI (Agencies) - In the wake of Mumbai terror strikes, India’s External Affairs Ministry on Monday summoned Pakistan’s High Commissioner Shahid Malik to lodge protest over Pakistan’s failure to curb terrorism emanating from its soil and also formally accused “elements” in Pakistan of being behind the militant attacks and demanded that Islamabad take “strong action”.

An Indian television channel reported that New Delhi also presented a list of 20 suspected persons, including Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, Dawood Ibrahim and Masood Azhar, to the Pakistani envoy and demanded that they be handed over to India.

“The High Commissioner of Pakistan was called to the Ministry of External Affairs this (Monday) evening. He was informed that the recent terrorist attack on Mumbai was carried out by elements from Pakistan,” a statement said.

In New Delhi’s first formal complaint to Islamabad, India said it “expects that strong action would be taken against those elements, whosoever they may be, responsible for this outrage”.

India’s Foreign Ministry has said investigations have shown that all the militants involved in the Mumbai attacks were Pakistani nationals.

India handed over the written protest just hours after New Delhi warned the carnage in Mumbai was a major setback for the peace process launched by the South Asian neighbours in 2004.

Our Staff Reporter from Islamabad adds: Pakistani officials denied that the Pakistan’s Ambassador to India was summoned by the Indian Ministry of External Affairs to lodge a formal protest over Mumbai attacks.

Pakistani Foreign Office said all the modes of communications between India and Pakistan were open and there was a procedure in this connection which

[pran]

FBI and the US state dept is converging on India to take the wind out of the govt. response which had a minuscule chance of happening due to public pressure.
My question is "Did US entertain foreign investigation agencies or dignitaries after 9/11?" If the the answer is NO then why did the Kangress administration allow it to happen, allowing all the intel collected so far to be discredited.

Why is this incident not being called a "war" ? How many more incidents and how many dead will qualify it for war ? It is a shame that POTUS-elect has to tell India has the right to defend itself, until then the whole Govt. is paralyzed on what to do, more chai biskoot session and musical chairs on sharing the blame and dispersing public anger. Just look at news pictures of the new Home minister taking office, he is all smiles , considering the achievements of this administration.

Indian democracy is a sham, it elects nincompoops and bovines , and more are in the line for the next election.

[munna]

Since a lot of heat, dust and emotions have settled down let us for once think of the response to terror in terms of a long term plan and not some game like "Rise of Nations" whereby a few ships and cannons can do the job for us. There is an old saying that often the hardest blows are those which are not visible to the third person. To start with

Internally we need to look at the following points
1) The primary support network of the Jihadis, Naxals and Ulfa types is almost always from local populace and winning some disgruntled people from this segment is quite easy due to law of probability. These disgruntled elements can be put into two major types that is the ideologically motivated ones (including victims of some unrest/violence) who are less prone to being infiltrated and the local Gunda element that seeks redemption in religion/ideology and earns some money by helping the terrorists. The second variety needs to be aggressively monitored, infiltrated, put under surveillance and lured under the flag of nationalism to provide a boost to our intelligence gathering capabilities and capacity.

2) The police force in our states varies in quality and quantity but it was really shocking for me to observe that a state as rich as Maharashtra had such ill equipped and ill trained force, agreed that what happened in Mumbai was truly out of the blue but do we have a city richer, grander and important as Mumbai? India is the only country that has a Police force which stamped out insurgency in a region and returned it to normalcy and that is in Punjab (ably assisted by other forces time to time) and there is no reason why other bigger states cant have EffectivE counter terrorism units. Any police force needs arms, intelligence, morale and training to engage any threat and sadly very few police forces in out country qualify as well armed, trained and high on morale. We need to take a hard look at the long pending police reforms.

3) The management of any terrorist threat or natural disaster has to be formalised under a chain of command with specific roles and powers describe for all players involved viz the state government and its wings, the armed forces and the central government. The current structure leaves too many loopholes leading to the time tested game of passing the buck between all major players.

4) Choose your politicians carefully!

[Johann]

H Nair,

My last post on either of these matters on this thread;

I have no accusation of racism to throw at you- only pointing out that youre bringing coals to Newcastle with all of the "as a coloured person" etc etc rhetoric in your post. I have thanks to my own personal background plenty of access to 'non-white' perspectives, to the extent that the diversity of the world can be so aggregated. Lumping every one outside the West together is in fact a rather Western habit, one that I didnt have to grow up with thankfully.

I will also point out something that I have said here before - I spent a good part of my growing up in India. I have come back as an adult many, many times, and even in one spell paid taxes to the GoI during work I've done there. I've attended weddings and funerals of all sorts there. My ties to India are far too broad and deep for me to take it seriously when any individual attempts to bluster about what I have to say in terms of 'us' and 'them' - this has never happened to me in person, only on the internet.

As for Katrina, gangs, etc I have to say that along with the colour rhetoric it suggests a point of view rooted in the anxiety bordering on hysteria of elements of the American establishment in the 1950s and 1960s, and which occasionally recurs in sensationalist media driven narratives about race, crime that are largely divorced from reality.

Disaster planning research began in earnest in the 1950s as part of the nuclear war planning that produced FEMA, Continuity of Government plans, etc. There is a large and deep pool of research on the topic - the vast majority of reports of post-Katrina violence have turned out to be bogus from both independent academic research and law enforcement investigation - at the Superdome and Convention Center there was exactly one murder.

For your own personal edification, I would suggest two peer reviewed journal pieces;
"Katrina and anarchy: A content analysis of a new disaster myth" by Paul Stock in Sociological Spectrum, Vol 27 Issue 6 published last year, and "Disaster mythology: looting in New Orleans" in Disaster Prevention and Management, 2008 Vol 17 Issue 4 published this year.

You can also read http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/archi ... index.html which are two different looks at the issue of looting as opposed to social collapse and violence.

[hnair]

Goodness... no saar! Johann and I have agreed to disagree and we vigorously pay our taxes. certainly no glowing matters of the boomic kind, not with a poster who writes quite decently. Just old fashioned friendly adi-thada displays. {salaam! thanks!}

[RajeshA]

Another measure the government can take is to promote and even subsidize all those industries and companies which also transport the same main export items of Pakistan.

Pakistan's main exports as per the Pakistani Embassy in Serbia:

Pakistan’s exports have reached 18 billion dollars and the main exports of Pakistan i.e cotton, textile goods, rice, leather items, carpets, sports goods, handicrafts, fish and fruits have seen substantial increase. In the markets all over the world and also in the Serbian market one can find textile, leather, sports goods, surgical/dental instruments and other products coming from Pakistan.

1) India can attack Pakistan's exports.

o India can promote 'carpet weaving' in Afghanistan, making Afghanistan a direct competitor of Pakistan.
o India can variate the water flows in the Indus, Jhelum and Chenab so that the Basmati crop in Pakistan does not get sufficient water. Same goes for the mangos (India can provide the right mango crates if needed).
o India can promote 'leather items' and 'sports goods' in Special Economic Zones in Indian Muslim areas in India, which can compete with Pakistan.
o India can also promote 'textile production' in India in a big way.

Moreover India should aggressively try to get the market share in Pakistan's hands for all these items. If the Pakistanis can't sell anything, they can't earn hard currency, and they can't spend that money to buy weapons and train terrorists.

2) Secondly if Pakistanis are seen to be involved in many such crimes, may be the Arab countries, where Pakistanis work will will shunt them out and the remittances back to Pakistan will also be affected.

3) Another thing Manmohan Singh should try would be to force Western countries not to allow companies to sell currency notes paper, so that they cannot print fake Indian currency. Pakistani currency should also be printed abroad to deny Pakistanis the paper. We could even let Taliban know, when a shipment of money is coming to Pakistan.

4) We should also try to stop IMF and World Bank form giving Pakistan any loans.

5) Also no more money-making through cricket by PCB. BCCI should say to other countries, either you play with us, or you play with them.