Indian Response to Terrorism

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NRao
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by NRao »

pran wrote:FBI and the US state dept is converging on India to take the wind out of the govt. response which had a minuscule chance of happening due to public pressure.
My question is "Did US entertain foreign investigation agencies or dignitaries after 9/11?" If the the answer is NO then why did the Kangress administration allow it to happen, allowing all the intel collected so far to be discredited.

Why is this incident not being called a "war" ? How many more incidents and how many dead will qualify it for war ? It is a shame that POTUS-elect has to tell India has the right to defend itself, until then the whole Govt. is paralyzed on what to do, more chai biskoot session and musical chairs on sharing the blame and dispersing public anger. Just look at news pictures of the new Home minister taking office, he is all smiles , considering the achievements of this administration.

Indian democracy is a sham, it elects nincompoops and bovines , and more are in the line for the next election.
Cannot answer specifics, but, when an American citizen is killed in foriegn lands it is a very normal procedure for the US to request that a US person conduct an independent investigation.

I am not sure if that is THE case in this case or that FBI is doing more than that.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by KLNMurthy »

Pratap Bhanu Mehta's advice to jingos

...
There is a story about the Bundela hero Chattarsal, who asked his guru for advice on how to mount his campaigns. The answer was apparently one word: “intelligently”. The answer remains true now as ever; and the worst thing we can do to ourselves is let the clamour for action cloud sound judgment.
...
NRao
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by NRao »

Source: U.S. warned India about possible Mumbai attack
(CNN) -- The United States warned the Indian government about a potential maritime attack against Mumbai at least a month before last week's massacre left 179 dead, a U.S. counterterrorism official told CNN.

U.S. intelligence indicated a group might enter the country by water and launch an attack on Mumbai, said the source, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

Indian authorities said they believe last week's attackers arrived by boat Wednesday. Local fisherman in Mumbai said they witnessed a group of gunmen dock their boat Wednesday night, before heading toward the busy causeway.

Also, sources have told CNN sister station CNN-IBN that officials found phones and a global navigational device on an abandoned boat floating off the coast of Mumbai. The boat had been hijacked, intelligence officials told CNN-IBN. Four crew members who had been aboard were missing. The captain was found dead, lying face down with his hands bound behind his back.

India made clear it believes the Mumbai attacks originated in Pakistan, but the Indian government is under pressure to explain the lapse of security that allowed the siege to occur.

Indian police say 179 people were killed in the attacks on 10 targets in Mumbai. Most of the deaths occurred at the city's top two hotels, the Oberoi and the Taj Mahal.

Pakistani authorities say Islamabad has not received any evidence that militants from within its borders carried out the attacks, but have vowed to fully cooperate in the investigation. Suspicion has fallen on Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, a Pakistan-based terror group allied with al Qaeda, even though it has denied responsibility for the attacks.

U.S. counterterrorism officials continue to say signs are pointing to Lashkar-e-Tayyiba and they haven't seen anything to rule it out. However, they will not definitively say the group is responsible.

A team of FBI agents is in Mumbai to assist in the investigation. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is heading to New Delhi, India, on Wednesday to try to ease strained relations between the two nuclear neighbors, India and Pakistan. Watch Pakistan's PM say his country will defuse tensions »

At the center of India's investigation is the lone suspect in police custody.

Indian officials have identified the suspect as a clean-shaven young man who was photographed during the attack on Mumbai's Victoria Terminus train station.

One of the still images shows the young man walking with one arm outstretched and a gun in his other hand, lowered by his side. He is wearing a black T-shirt, cargo pants and a backpack.

Indian police say the other nine attackers were killed in three days of battles with police and the Indian military.

Police say the suspect is a Pakistani and was trained in by Lashkar-e-Tayyiba. Pakistan banned the group in 2002 after an attack on India's parliament that brought the two countries to the brink of war.

Sources told CNN-IBN, that all the gunmen involved in the Mumbai attacks were from Pakistan. Watch how attacks could damage relations »

The only claim of responsibility has been in an e-mail from a previously unknown group calling itself the Deccan Mujahedeen, which sources told CNN-IBN originated in Pakistan.

The sources said the e-mail was created using voice-recognition software and it has been traced to a computer with an Internet protocol (IP) address in Pakistan, using a server in Russia.

The software, which created the text of the e-mail, indicates that the person speaking had a Pakistani dialect, the sources said. For instance, "Deccan" they say is a Pakistani term for the area of south India.

Even if the evidence shows a link to Pakistan, Indian security experts say that such a well-coordinated, massive attack would require local knowledge to execute.

Intelligence officials told CNN-IBN that two men, who are still at large, conducted a surveillance mission in Mumbai months before last week's attacks.

Some explosives found and defused around the Taj Mahal Hotel, the site of the terrorists' final stand, was later identified as RDX -- a powerful explosive commonly used by a local terror group, Indian Mujahedeen, the officials also said.

The top Indian and Pakistani diplomats voiced their countries' positions to the foreign ministries in New Delhi and Islamabad on Monday. Several Indian officials, including the home minister, have tendered their resignations over the matter.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by ramana »

This looks like psy-ops to me to pressure the UPA as to why they didnt trust massa info even if the info was like boy who cried wolf. if it wanst actionable who cares whether they informed or not.

BTW would like more corroboration of the news item/eye witness reports about the US Consul who was whisked away before the terrorshits attacked the restraunt.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by sunilUpa »

India’s feeble response to Pak terror
The government’s tactics of feeding morsels such as Union home minister Shivraj Patil and his Maharashtra counterpart R. R. Patil or even chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh, is unlikely to assuage the hunger of the public for action against the source of the terror— Pakistan.

BJP general secretary Arun Jaitley pounced on a dithering ruling alliance with a demand for “ stern action” against Islamabad. He avoided giving a direct call to arms, but he did note, “ Let us get one thing straight – what happened in Mumbai was India’s 9/ 11. And India’s response should be substantially closer to what the US did after 9/ 11.” On Monday the government took what at first sight appeared to be a tough step but which, on closer examination, appears to be a dose of failed medicine.

THE foreign ministry called Pakistan high commissioner Shahid Malik and served him a demarche over the role of Pakistan-based elements in the Mumbai terror strikes. The demarche, diplomatese for an official protest, was served by Vivek Katju, additional secretary, in the absence of foreign secretary Shivshankar Menon, who is in Washington. Katju told the high commissioner, “Pakistan’s actions needed to match the sentiments expressed by its leadership” if it wants a new relationship with India.

The high commissioner was told that India “expects strong action” against the perpetrators of the terrorist outrage in Mumbai. Pakistan has denied any link with the Mumbai attacks and assured India that it would take the strictest action if evidence was found linking Pakistani citizens to the blasts. In response to a question, President Asif Zardari told an Indian TV anchor that “if any evidence points out to any camps… if we are aware of anything of that sort, we will not only close down, but [also] take action against those people who are running those camps of any sort.” This is brazen. The Lashkar-e- Tayyeba has training camps all across Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, a fact testified to not by the Indian intelligence, but the Pakistani media. These camps function courtesy the Pakistan Army.

This time New Delhi has evidence in the form of Mohammad Amir Qasab, the gunmen caught on camera on the day of the massacre. In addition, the US, whose nationals were killed, will have evidence of its own through National Security Agency intercepts. But whereas in 2001-2002 New Delhi backed its demarche by mobilising the army and threat-ening war, this time it has called in the high commissioner and delivered a piece of paper to him. So what should New Delhi do? It could undertake a graduated response that involves a suspension of normal diplomatic intercourse such as talks and dialogue.

It could raise the ante by suspending all road and rail communication, tighten the visa regime, restore police reporting visas for Pakistani citizens and suspend cross-border and cross-LoC trade. India could also reduce the staff in the Indian high commission in Islamabad and demand that Pakistan do the same for its mission in New Delhi. Short of military action — which can only be the last resort — India should do everything to bring Pakistan to its knees. India might also consider, according to experts, circulating a UN Security Council document giving evidence of Pakistan’s involvement in the attacks to generate international pressure.

Former foreign secretary Kanwal Sibal said, India should immediately suspend the composite dialogue with Islamabad and that, too, before US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice arrives in New Delhi on Wednesday. “Rice’s visit is intended to moderate our reaction,” said Sibal, adding “It would be wise to announce certain decisions, including a suspension of the dialogue before she arrives to send a message that India retains its options vis-à-vis Pakistan.” Strategic affairs expert K.

Subrahmanyam felt that Pakistan was unlikely to hand over Dawood Ibrahim and Maulana Masood Azhar. He said the Pakistan Army “engineered this terror attack to create an opportunity to move their troops from the western border to the eastern border. The Pakistan Army will try to convince the Americans on this issue. We should not fall into the trap and instead ask Washington to pressure Islamabad.” In his view it was important for India to take the international community along.

The opposition, too, is sceptical about the government’s action. “To what purpose is this demarche being issued?” asked BJP leader Yashwant Sinha. “From the response of their foreign minister, it is clear that they are in a denial mode. We will repeat our demand for Dawood Ibrahim and they will repeat that he is not in Pakistan. What good is that going to achieve?” he asked. He said if he were the foreign minister, he would share the evidence of Pakistan’s involvement to build world opinion. “I cannot say what the government should do. But we would have been stronger,” Sinha said.

Sinha and the strategic community are aware that in 2002, India achieved little even after mobilising its army and generating American pressure on Pakistan to stop supporting terrorism against India. Just what the government hopes to achieve now is not clear. Perhaps the demarche by itself is only for public consumption. If so, it is unlikely to have any effect either in Pakistan or India.
Interesting take by KS.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Muppalla »

Regarding KS article, the only way Congress and the Government led by it gets credibility is to get back JeM and LeT chiefs and also Dawood. After that they can coo that BJP is all just hot-air and we are the real problem solvers. Until then their credibility is not going to be restored and down slide is now filled with frictionless ice.
ManuT
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by ManuT »

ramana wrote:Which naqvi joker?
Just for the record:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20081202/81 ... p-red.html

BJP vice-president Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi has come under a severe attack from women parliamentarians, cutting across party lines, for suggesting that "women wearing lipstick and powder" have taken to streets in Mumbai, "leading marches against the political class".

"Some women wearing lipstick and powder have taken to streets in Mumbai and are abusing politicians, thus spreading dissatisfaction against democracy. This is what terrorists are doing in Jammu and Kashmir," Naqvi told television channels, leading to a barrage of protests from women parliamentarians, many of them from his own BJP.

----------------

I was left speechless by this MA.E.O.A Naqvi's remark that the Citizenry should not question its leaders, hence, the awkward pause.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by shiv »

cross post
And that is partly because
http://www.ipcs.org/India_articles2.jsp ... ticle=1014
The police-population ratio in India is very poor at 1:728, it was 1:600 as mentioned by the Home Minister in August 2005 to Parliament, with women constables constituting only 2.5 per cent of that number. The all-India average police-population ratio stands at 122 per 100,000, which is much lower than the UN norm of 222 per 100,000 (1:450). Most western countries have ratios between 250 and 500 per 100,000. Russia has a ratio of 1:82 and Australia 1:439. While Pakistan has a ratio of 1:625, Japan and Singapore have 1:563 and 1:295 respectively. Even developing countries like Thailand with 1:228 have a much better ratio than India.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by ManuT »

Cross Post, Questions: Can some one explain to me:

1. Why should people give a damn about Sharad Pawar's 'problem' with Vilasrao's replacement. It this cricket?

2. What does the Foreign Minister Pranab Mukerjee says when he speaks? Looks like he always has a boil in his mouth. Does it matter what comes out from his mouth.
NRao
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by NRao »

GoI seems to be dusting and providing old speechs!!

However, In Wake of Attacks, India-Pakistan Tensions Grow

President Bush has dispatched Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to India, where she was expected to arrive on Wednesday. Speaking in London on Monday, she called on Pakistan in blunt terms “to follow the evidence wherever it leads,” adding, “I don’t want to jump to any conclusions myself on this, but I do think that this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and cooperation.”
Obama also had a similar sentiment. Leads me to believe that India has some evidence, but either not sufficient to point a finger or evidence of the variety that next time around Pakis will cover it up.

IMHO India should make them pay a price within PakiLand.

Or consider sending troops to A'stan. Details TBD.
Rahul M
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Rahul M »

someone please add His Majesty's response to terrorism to his wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahul_Gandhi#Criticism
R Vaidya
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by R Vaidya »

Dealing with TSP--Slam it

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1210789

rvaidya
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Shreeman »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 693&s_pos=
"The mood in the government towards Pakistan is definitely very hostile right now, but a military mobilization is unlikely," one official said. "We may go for a gradual, calibrated diplomatic offensive. But a lot will depend on how Pakistan responds in the coming days."
Yaaaay, we have decided on a response.
"Who do we talk to? Who is in control in Pakistan? They have a government, but how relevant is it in controlling the terror groups there?" a senior official said.
Oh, damn. Missed. If only we had finished calibrating when Musharraf was in power.

Can we zip these anonymous officials for a bit? I like the mystery better.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Div »

R Vaidya wrote:Dealing with TSP--Slam it

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1210789

rvaidya
Amen.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by vishal »

Just when you think you have read all the mindless analyses along comes another one.
(Posting in full as registration is required)

Fresh Blood From an Old Wound

MIDWAY through last week’s murderous rampage in Mumbai, one of the suspected gunmen at the besieged Jewish center called a popular Indian TV channel. Speaking in Urdu (the primary language of Pakistan and many Indian Muslims), he ranted against the recent visit of an Israeli general to the Indian-ruled section of the Kashmir Valley. Referring to the Pakistan-backed insurgency in the valley, and the Indian military response to it, he asked, “Are you aware how many people have been killed in Kashmir?”

In a separate phone call, another gunman invoked the oppression of Muslims by Hindu nationalists and the destruction of the Babri Mosque in Ayodhya in 1992. Such calls were the only occasions on which the militants, whom initial reports have tied to the Pakistani jihadist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, offered a likely motive for their indiscriminate slaughter. Their rhetoric seems all too familiar. Nevertheless, it shows how older political conflicts in South Asia have been rendered more noxious by the fallout from the “war on terror” and the rise of international jihadism.

Pakistan, a nation-state founded on Islam, has long claimed Muslim-majority Kashmir, and has fought three wars with India over it since 1947. In the early 1990s, as an anti-India insurgency in Kashmir intensified, groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba became the Pakistani government’s proxies in its war of attrition with its neighbor.

American pressure after 9/11 forced Pakistan’s president, Pervez Musharraf, to ban Lashkar-e-Taiba, which had developed links with the Taliban and Al Qaeda. With General Musharraf’s departure from office in September, it would be no surprise if this turned out to be the Muslim group’s first major atrocity since 2001.

Pakistan’s new civilian government is too weak to control either the extremist groups within the country or the various rogue elements within its military and intelligence. The American military was reported to have started bombing supposed terrorist hideouts inside Pakistan’s borders even as General Musharraf stumbled to the exit. As its increasingly desperate pleas to the Bush administration to stop the attacks go unheeded, Pakistan’s government appears pathetically helpless to its own citizens.

The sense of humiliation and impotence that this loss of sovereignty creates in Pakistan, a country with a strong tradition of populist nationalism, cannot be underestimated.

Meanwhile, India’s influence in Afghanistan has grown as it pours reconstruction money into the country, as have its military ties with Israel. Add to this the Bush administration’s decision to reward India with an extraordinarily generous nuclear deal and to more or less ignore Kashmir, where in August Indian security forces brutally suppressed the biggest nonviolent demonstrations in the valley’s history, and recent attacks against the Indian Embassy in Kabul, the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, and now in Mumbai begin to appear to be connected by more than chronology.

Meanwhile, Indian intelligence experts and others suspect that jihadists and disaffected members of Pakistan’s armed forces and intelligence agencies have forged closer links and, as the string of recent bomb attacks on Indian cities reveals, are rapidly making new allies among the 13 percent of Indians who are Muslim.

It is very likely that Barack Obama will take a different tack from the Bush administration in antiterrorism efforts in South Asia. In an interview with MSNBC last month, he said that his administration would encourage India to solve the Kashmir dispute with Pakistan, so that Islamabad can cooperate with the United States in Afghanistan.

The idea that the road to stability in South Asia goes through Kashmir is as persuasive as the notion that the path to peace in the Middle East goes through Jerusalem. It is also equally hard to realize. Mr. Obama could act quickly to stem growing extremism in Pakistan and strengthen civilian authority by ending American missile attacks within its borders and shifting the allied strategy in Afghanistan away from military force and toward political nation-building and economic reconstruction. At the same time, he will have to find a solution in Kashmir that endows its Muslims with a measure of autonomy while pacifying extremists in both India and Pakistan.

The new president’s moral and intellectual authority will be vital in negotiations with India, which, like China regarding Tibet, adamantly rejects third-party mediation in Kashmir. Mr. Obama could point out the obvious to Indian leaders: they have paid a huge price for their intransigence over Kashmir, with an estimated 80,000 dead in the valley in the last two decades and a resultant rise in terrorist attacks across India.

Indeed, the outrage in Mumbai is the latest and clearest sign that the price of India’s uncompromising stance on Kashmir has become too high, imperiling its economy as well as its security. (If anything, India is suffering because it has failed to be aggressive on this issue) Indian anger over the fumbling response to the brazen attacks disguises the panicky realization that there can be no effective defense against terrorists in a country with a long coastline and densely populated cities. The best India can hope for is to improve what Ratan Tata — the country’s leading industrialist and the owner of last week’s main terrorist target, Mumbai’s Taj hotel — calls “crisis management.”

As the economy falters (Mumbai’s stock market has lost nearly 60 percent of its value this year), India can barely cope with homegrown violent movements like the Maoist insurgency in its central states, which Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has described as the biggest internal security threat to India since independence.

Pointing to the Bush administration’s vigorous response to 9/11, Indian commentators lament that India is a “soft state,” unable to defend itself from internal and external enemies. But India cannot turn into a “hard” state without swiftly undermining its secular, multicultural democracy.

The government has already experimented with draconian laws like the Prevention of Terrorist Activities Act of 2002, which among other measures allowed the police to hold suspects without charge for six months. It was repealed in 2004 after many abuses against Muslims were revealed. While these attacks may lead to calls for more tough measures, Indians cannot lose sight of the peril that 150 million Muslims would lose their faith in India’s political and legal system. And it is obviously dangerous to threaten Pakistan, a nuclear-armed state, with war.

As president, Mr. Obama could conceivably persuade India and Pakistan to see the virtue of a political solution to Kashmir. But he would first have to set an example by rejecting the false assumptions of a global war on terrorism based primarily on military force — assumptions that the elites of powerful countries with restive minorities like India, China and Russia have eagerly embraced since 9/11.

“The people of India deeply love you,” Prime Minister Singh said to President Bush in September while thanking him for the nuclear deal. Yet it is President-elect Obama who has the opportunity to create deeper and more enduring alliances for the United States in South Asia — and he should start with Kashmir. (Yeah right, and why don't we let Arundhati Roy head a commission on how to make amends to Pakistan for not being apologetic enough)
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by surinder »

Some random thoughts:

1) It does not look like India has any options left. We cannot attack TSP. We cannot take any revenge. We cannto cut off Karachi. Nor do we have courage to do any hot pursue. All we can do is complain. Suspend a few trains/buses, and cancel a few diplomatic talks. TSP will smile and take it, knowing that India can do nothing.

2) I used to beleive that TSP was full of it when it claimed India cannot attack TSP now. Actually TSPians were right.

3) When the evidence of Indian embassy being bombed in Kabul came from CIA, which in international terms is as clear a stamp of approval as you can imagine, Indian response was humiliatingly honorless. Even Hamid Karzai has more courage than any Indian leader.

4) People made fun of George Bush; they called him stupid, inept, idiot. But he far far far more capable than anyone in India. He rallied a nation. Took out two countries. Spoke like a man. Kept a list of terrorists in his desk and marked their names off when each of them were killed. No Indian will do it. Ph.D. PM has not an iota of courage or foresight to do it. Sonia couldn't care less.

5) If the terrorist caught is from a small village from Faridkot, in Punjab, TSP. Then it should be fairly easy to locate his family. Some reporters can go to that village. Ask around if they knew a young guy of this age. They can report from his school, his friends, and family. Family will be reticnet. Also, there must be 10-30 families in TSP missing a young 20ish son. Can the be located? There were some photos of dead terrorists, can that be used in any way to find their parents/family?

6) Why are the Indian authorities trying to bury the terrorists. Their useless corpses should be left to rot. Or better still, they should be preserved and extensive photos released to the press. Some writers should want to do a write up on thiese terrorist attacks and they should get all the info. Maybe bodies should be preserved and shown in a museum of terrorism in India. The rubber dingy can furniture with bullet holes etc. can all be collected and sent to the museum.

7) Can some bright person make a documentary on the exactly what happened in Mumbai. I think it will be a great reminder to us. A PBS style documentary.

9) Johann's idea of co-opting Zardari is a bright & interesting idea. There is however one problem: Such ideas are implemented by stong nations. India is in no position to act on it. It requires stamina to push through wtih these ideas for a long time. We don't have any such capability. Let us forget about it.

10) The interesting article by Gautier on Sonia Gandhi is perhaps the only article that is worthy of reading. She is a disgrace for India. She must go. The time has come for her to depart forever. She will bring ruinto the Hindus, to India, and also the Christians. She is the one who has emasculated India to this extent.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by pran »

“The people of India deeply love you,” Prime Minister Singh said to President Bush in September while thanking him for the nuclear deal. Yet it is President-elect Obama who has the opportunity to create deeper and more enduring alliances for the United States in South Asia — and he should start with Kashmir.
It seems anyone parroting the line that US is the only broker will get published in nytimes.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Rahul Shukla »

WMD Attack In U.S. Likely By 2013 (CBS)

Here is what a bipartisan commission told the Vice-President Elect Joe Biden today:
"Were one to map terrorism and weapons of mass destruction today, all roads would intersect in Pakistan," the report states.
The west can ignore these Mumbai attacks and cover for Pakistan (ISI/Army) at its own peril. It is that simple.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Philip »

I can only describe the situ thus.

Mother India is a woman who has been constantly gang raped by Pakistan for more than two decades.All that time,except during the Kargil War,the "husband",that is the GOI,has sat by her side and watched the repeated gang rapes taking place.The GOI has however taken "stern action" by condemning the rapes publicly,threatening that it will take action "if it ever happens again" for the umpteenth time,threatening to write to Pakistan that it must stop the raping,summoning the Paki diplomatic envoy and telling him in "no uncertain terms",that Pak must stop raping India and if it continues to rape India,the GOI will write to George Bush,Tony Blair,etc. and ask them to write to Pakistan telling them to stop the gangraping!

It has now told Pakistan that those gangrapists now living in Pakistan must be returned to India (assuring Pak that they can continue their gangraping,as it has still not taken any action against the guilty who gangraped at Parliamnet House!).In fact the GOI has actually taken immediate action by sacking the chief chowkidar,replacing him with the accountant and shooing out of the house some family members who have stood by grinning watching the rapes,who have said that it is only a "small gangrape" for such a large woman!

Meanwhile,it is welcoming the US woman Sec.of State while the US is trying to prevent the husband/GOI from punishing the gangrapists,saying that we must not be nasty to the rapists,as it is their culture.We must actually allow the gangraping to go on peacefully whenever it happens and gently educate and advise the Paki rapists that they should desist from such behaviour as it is not a polite act to abuse a neighbour as such.This the US says is how civilised democracies must behave,with a "stiff upper lip",as our British friends display!

PS:
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... rt/393184/

US warned India 'twice' about sea attack: Report

Washington United States intelligence agencies had warned India "twice" about a potential maritime attack on Mumbai at least a month before audacious terror strikes that has left about 200 people dead and scores injured, media reports said.
"The United States warned the Indian government about a potential maritime attack against Mumbai at least a month before last week's massacre in the country's financial capital," the CNN quoted a US counter-terrorism official as saying.

The American network quoted the official as saying that the warning was issued not once but "twice".

A second government source told ABCnews.com that specific locations, including the Taj Hotel, were listed in the US warning.

"US intelligence indicated that a group might enter the country by water and launch an attack on Mumbai, said the official, who refused to be identified due to the ongoing investigation into the attacks and the sensitivity of the information," the CNN added.

"Indian security forces have confirmed to CNN that not only did US officials warn them of a water-borne attack in Mumbai -- they were told twice. The area entered a higher state of alert for a week, including tightened security measures at hotels, but those efforts were eventually reduced, Indian officials said," the network, which repeatedly broadcast the story last evening, maintained.

On November 18, Indian intelligence also intercepted a satellite phone call to a number in Pakistan known to be used by a leader of the terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba, believed to be responsible for the weekend attack, Indian intelligence officials were quoted as saying by 'ABCnews.com'.

The Indian intercept also revealed a possible "sea-borne attack", it said, citing officials.

Since last Friday, US intelligence agencies have been tracking the phones and SIM cards recovered by Indian authorities from the terrorists involved in Mumbai attacks leading to a "treasure trove" of leads in Pakistan and several possible connections to the US, officials told the TV network.

Officials said one of the cell phone SIM cards may have been purchased in the US but would not provide any more details because of the ongoing nature of the investigation, 'ABCNews' said.

The phones also include the same "Thuraya Satellite" phone intercepted in November by Indian intelligence agencies, the report said.

The United States National Security Agency, the report said, has the technical means to retrieve all calls made from satellite and cell phones in south Asia region.

"Once we have the number we will be able to know everyone who was called and where the calls were made from," one former intelligence office told the network.

A US counter-terrorism official was quoted as saying all leads continue to point at Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based terrorist group with strong ties to al-Qaeda.

The group has taken credit for a number of previous terror attacks, including the Mumbai commuter rail system and the Indian Parliament building
Last edited by Philip on 02 Dec 2008 11:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by SSridhar »

surinder wrote:The interesting article by Gautier on Sonia Gandhi is perhaps the only article that is worthy of reading. She is a disgrace for India. She must go. The time has come for her to depart forever. She will bring ruinto the Hindus, to India, and also the Christians. She is the one who has emasculated India to this extent.
She cleverly pre-empted that by deflecting anger at Shivraj Patil in the CWC. Anyway, nobody in the Congress Party has the guts to ask that question. You shoud have seen the rage and anger that Ms. Jayanthi Natarajan exhibited in NDTV at Shoba De for her pursuing a similar line.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by SSridhar »

Rahul Shukla wrote:The west can ignore these Mumbai attacks and cover for Pakistan (ISI/Army) at its own peril. It is that simple.
The West (whatever we mean by that term) doesn't ignore that. It deeply cares but it will be quite willing to achieve its security at the cost of India, if it needs be. I don't blame them for that. Whatever we need to do to protect ourselves, we need to do that. If somebody else's interests converge with ours, jolly good. We work together. Otherwise, we go alone.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Philip »

I've said elsewhere,"No Security Adviser" Narayanam-Quit,ManMohan Singh-Quit,Sonia-Quit India!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 47096.html

Pakistani links to terror raise tensions in region
Militant says former army member ran training camp

By Andrew Buncombe in Mumbai and Kim Sengupta
Tuesday, 2 December 2008

The militants who brought death and chaos to Mumbai had received months of commando training in Pakistan before launching their attacks, a revelation that will further heighten tension between the two countries.


Indian investigators said yesterday that during interrogation, Azam Amir Kasav, the sole militant taken alive, had revealed that his team had taken “their command in Pakistan”.

Up to two dozen people had undergone a year of training overseen by the Lashkar-e-Toiba militant group and conducted by a former member of the Pakistan army. When the training finished, 10 were chosen for the mission.

“They underwent training in several phases, which included training in handling weapons, bomb-making, survival strategies, survival in a marine environment and even dietary habits,” a senior police officer said.

It was also claimed that a US senior intelligence official had warned Indian intelligence in mid-October of a potential attack “from the sea against hotels and business centres in Mumbai”. Another source indicated that targets including the Taj Mahal Hotel had been named in the warning.

The details of the involvement of Pakistan-based militants in the terror attacks that killed more than 180 came as the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, called for Pakistan to show “transparency” and help in the investigations. Dr Rice will cut short a European visit so she can travel to India for crisis talks tomorrow.

“I don’t want to jump to any conclusions myself on this, but I do think that this is a time for complete, absolute, total transparency and co-operation and that is what we expect [from Pakistan],” she said after meeting the Foreign Secretary, David Miliband, in London. “What we are emphasising to the Pakistani government is the need to follow the evidence wherever it leads and to do that in the most committed and firmest possible way.”

Kasav, 21, who was photographed during the attacks wearing a black T-shirt with Versace logo, reportedly told investigators that the militants’ training took place in two camps, one near Mansehra in Pakistan’s north-west and the other near Muzaffarabad in Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

The first training phase involved three months of physical preparation, including 10-mile (16km) runs. Next they received marine training and practised swimming, diving and seamanship. Indian media reported that weapons training followed before the chosen men were sent to Mumbai on a reconnaissance mission, visiting the Taj Mahal and Trident-Oberoi hotels.

One report suggested militants may still be at large after officials searching a fishing vessel that the gunmen had seized to reach Mumbai discovered that there were enough life-jackets on board for 15 people. Police had initially believed up to 24 militants could have been involved in the operation.

In Islamabad, officials said they had not received any evidence from India that a Pakistan-based group had been involved in the attacks.

The President, Asif Ali Zardari, again appealed for restraint but also seemed to accept the possibility that Pakistanis had played a role. “Such a tragic incident must bring opportunity rather than the defeat of a nation. We don’t think the world’s great nations can be held hostage by non-state actors ? Even if the militants are linked to Lashkar-e-Toiba, who do you think we are fighting?”

Pakistan’s Prime Minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, will today host a meeting of all political party leaders to discuss how to respond to the attacks. He said Pakistan would take action against the “miscreants if there is any evidence against a Pakistani national”. However, he also urged India to stop making accusations through the media.

Chaudhry Nisar Ahmed Khan, an opposition politician in Islamabad, has called for Pakistan to be firm with India and insisted that it provide evidence of the involvement of Pakistanis.

On the weekend, India and Pakistan engaged in a display of sabre-rattling. India said it was increasing its security to a “war level”. Pakistan responded by threatening to move up to 100,000 troops from its northern tribal areas to its eastern border with India.

Few observers believe relations will plunge to their 2002 level when the two nations faced off but there is little doubt that the fallout from the attacks will hamper the peace process.

Meanwhile, a Muslim graveyard in Mumbai has rejected the bodies of the nine attackers. “People who committed this heinous crime cannot be called Muslim,” said Hanif Nalkhande, of the Jama Masjid Trust which runs the Badakabrastan graveyard. “Islam does not permit this sort of barbaric crime.”
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by vishal »

The Sovereignty Dodge - What Pakistan Won't Do, the World Should

Quote: "nations should not be able to claim sovereign rights when they cannot control territory from which terrorist attacks are launched.
::
::
In Pakistan's case, the continuing complicity of the military and intelligence services with terrorist groups pretty much shreds any claim to sovereign protection."
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Airavat »

Image

In what may be a possible review of intelligence and defence agencies failure to detect the smuggling of large arms and ammunition and terrorists via sea, defence minister AK Antony will meet navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta today (December 1).

Times Now
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by rsingh »

Ok some babu in PMO was dusting old documents and found the famous 20 list........passed the list to MEA and asked them to demand Bakis to act on it. Why UPA could not press Bakis on this list in last 4 years......no prize for guessing that.

Airavat......This time now thingi is screwing my browser.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by pradeepe »

The offical proganda outlet-

VoA: US Urges Pakistan to Cooperate With Mumbai Investigation
Secretary of State Rice plans to hold meetings in New Delhi with Indian officials on Wednesday and she plans to offer whatever assistance the U.S. can provide.

"We will be working with India. We intend to work with Pakistan as well," she said. "The people who perpetrated this must be brought to justice and ultimately the terrorists have to be stopped because they will keep trying to bring down the civilized values and the civilized world as long as they are not challenged. And that means challenging them and resolutely going after them is the only choice that we have."
This is getting sickening. Once again we are being fed manure that non-state entities are responsible. TSPA is the State and the State is TSPA. It can't be clearer than that, not after witnessing what we just did. A marine assault with associated logistics, near perfect planning on seeking out the right terror targets, the hit against the ATS chief (mind blowing IMO), sustained terror for 60+ hours and TSPA is not involved? They levelled countries on flimsier pretexts and less said about evidence manufacturing the better.

The cold warriors within the US have no intent to give up their antics even with serious Indian blood on their hands. :evil:
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Singha »

title of this thread could be changed to "gubo - the indian response to paki terrorism"
RajeshA
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by RajeshA »

^^^

One thing India should do is de-recognize the trappings of the Pakistani State, as they have no power or influence with respect to areas, which are of concern to India, namely

1. Nurturing and use of terrorist infrastructure
2. Control over Nuclear Weapons
3. Foreign Policy
4. Militarization targeted at India
5. Situation on the international border and LoC.

So the Indian Policy should be that:

Pakistan has no President.
Pakistan has no Parliament.
Pakistan has no Prime Minister.
Pakistan has no Foreign Minister.

India should always talk in terms of Pakistani Establishment and stop thinking in terms of Pakistani State. We tend to give respect to actors in Pakistan, who have no say, thereby warping reality, which leads to loss of our interests. When we deal with the devil, we should not have to deal with its minions. Zardari & the Gang is just Pakistani Bollywood brought on-board to fool the people of Pakistan, to entertain the media, and to buffer the pressures from outside.

USA only talks with the Chief of Army in Pakistan. They know who is the real power behind the throne.

So if India wants to deal with Pakistan, we should deal with Kiyani and cut off all official communications with the politicos there. They can be harnessed if they help India in penetrating the Pakistani civil society, but they are of no use to India as dialogue partners.

So de-recognize Government of the failed state of Pakistan.

As soon as that happens, Indians would not have to put up with India sending out demarches to Pakistani High Commissioner and similar rubbish.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by samuel.chandra »

Wow. Very moving. Iss Baar Nahin. If we are planning to do a ground campaign, like bart suggested, this could be our theme song.
A Arun wrote:Iss Baar Nahin

Is baar jab woh choti si bachchi mere paas apni kharonch le kar aayegi
Main usey phoo phoo kar nahin behlaoonga
Panapney doonga uski tees ko
Is baar nahin

Is baar jab main chehron par dard likha dekhoonga
Nahin gaoonga geet peeda bhula dene wale
Dard ko risney doonga,utarney doonga andar gehrey
Is baar nahin

Is baar main na marham lagaoonga
Na hi uthaoonga rui ke phahey
Aur na hi kahoonga ki tum aankein band karlo,gardan udhar kar lo main dawa lagata hoon
Dekhney doonga sabko hum sabko khuley nangey ghaav
Is baar nahin

Is baar jab uljhaney dekhoonga,chatpatahat dekhoonga
Nahin daudoonga uljhee door lapetney
Uljhaney doonga jab tak ulajh sake
Is baar nahin

Is baar karm ka hawala de kar nahin uthaoonga auzaar
Nahin karoonga phir se ek nayee shuruaat
Nahin banoonga misaal ek karmyogi ki
Nahin aaney doonga zindagi ko aasani se patri par
Utarney doonga usey keechad main,tedhey medhey raston pe
Nahin sookhney doonga deewaron par laga khoon
Halka nahin padney doonga uska rang
Is baar nahin banney doonga usey itna laachaar
Ki paan ki peek aur khoon ka fark hi khatm ho jaye
Is baar nahin

Is baar ghawon ko dekhna hai
Gaur se
Thoda lambe wakt tak
Kuch faisley
Aur uskey baad hausley
Kahin toh shuruat karni hi hogi
Is baar yahi tay kiya hai

--- Prasoon Joshi
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by samuel.chandra »

Is baar nahi(Not this time) my friend. India has paid for its rational behavior too many times. I remember an army chief, his name escapes me, explaining why a rational response everytime makes us very predictable.
KV Rao wrote:Pratap Bhanu Mehta's advice to jingos

...
There is a story about the Bundela hero Chattarsal, who asked his guru for advice on how to mount his campaigns. The answer was apparently one word: “intelligently”. The answer remains true now as ever; and the worst thing we can do to ourselves is let the clamour for action cloud sound judgment.
...
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by samuel.chandra »

i second that. no seriously.
Singha wrote:title of this thread could be changed to "gubo - the indian response to paki terrorism"
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by RajeshA »

As long as Pakistan stays, the radicalization of Muslims on the Indian Subcontinent will continue unabated. Surely it is not in India's interest to go for the kill, when our Indian Muslims have all been radicalized. That would be too late.

:(

If Pranabda has also caved in and said India would not go for a military attack on Pakistan, then we have taken that of the table, and let Pakistan completely off the hook. He seemed to be the last man standing in this cabinet.
Last edited by RajeshA on 02 Dec 2008 15:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by harbans »

Whatever may be the emotional levels of folks here, however on the edge they might be after this incident, it does not take away the facts on the ground:

The Pakistani state has built up institutionally a structure of plausible deniability for any incident. The President can be totally unaware that the ISI is funding terror groups. So would the PM. So could possibly the PA Chief. The people would be unaware of LOC violations as would the Govt. Institutionally everyone has built up plausible deniability. They honestly can put up a poker face and feign innocence to the highest degree over and above the fact that the average Paki can lie shamelessly.

However what our planners and Institutions are unaware is the responsibility of the Ghazwa E Hind that Pakistan holds for itself. Kashmir is a subset of that policy it has in mind. The inability and innocence of our institutions to realize the core doctrine that motivates and energizes the Paki terrorist/ militant/ jihadi/ man on the gound is our failure.

Another thing one notices is during press briefings the Biggies think they are addressing an illiterate audience and they speak extremely condescendingly to the messenger reporters with tremendous arrogance and dismissiveness. I pointed very early on here i find it hard to believe that 10 people carried this out.

Does anyone here know who is responsible here for the entire investigation? Is it the ATS Head? Is it the Mumbai Police Chief? Is it the CBI? What is the chain of command of this investigation being carried out? Who does the Media briefs? What are his/ her guidelines? There are obviously management issues involved here that are not being followed. Who is collating all reports? Is anyone investigating the injured and dead? Can some terrorists be amongst the injured and dead uncounted for? Who was the person that reported the White person and another with a punkish haircut firing away at the Taj? Is someone collating all unexplained information and people who gave them that info? Why is the Govt so keen to freeze it at 10 terrorists? Why the reports on 3 terrorists caught and now one?

Too many questions without appropriate answers at the moment are possible. But it is very essential someone collates these discrepencies and ticks them off one at a time they are addressed in the investigative process. I am not sure if thats being done. No one is addressing and assuring us on these issues in any press briefings.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Neela »

So here is the Indian response so far.

1. Summon TSP ambassador for chai-biskoot session
2. Hand over list of 20 terrorists in a demarche. NOT TIME BOUND

Pranabda:
"What will be done, time will show and you will come to know," he said in response to a query on US president-elect Barack Obama's remarks that his country will help India in "protecting" itself from such terror attacks.
I dont know what to make of this.But since 2. above is not time bound, I see no reason to ponder about a senile rant.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by RajeshA »

I do fear that Indian investigators may either botch up the interrogation of this girlie-boy, with all these unconfirmed leaks in the press,

... or what is worse, the rulers of the day may see it in their interest to make it an interrogation catastrophe, so that with all the misleading evidence, their own case against Pakistan becomes so weak, that they can claim that the international community is not buying the evidence, and hence they are constrained to do anything against Pakistan.

We should know, that a politico would go to any level to warp reality to suit his own interests. {My first official rant against the politicos. :( }
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by harbans »

We should know, that a politico would go to any level to warp reality to suit his own interests

Actually they would do anything to cover their incompetence. They really do not work towards any goal. For that one has to have a vision a plan into the future. Something Indian politicians don't have. MMS for example does have a economic vision for India, but nothing on a strategic level. Sonia/ Rahul have neither an economic one or a strategic one.

I do share the same fears as you. I do fear some joker in the investigation team might resort to 3rd degree stuff and once this Asim pig cops it, the investigation is at zero. THe onus will be on our incompetence.

The only way we shift the onus of incompetence in the future from us is macro and micromanaging the investigation process. Else there will be confusion, unexplained events that will be exploited, resulting in confusion and loss of public confidence and consequent handing over to some other agency to investigate. This is the botch up i fear. I do hope they have created a proper structure for the investigation. This is going to be long and hard.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by samuel.chandra »

bart and any other rakshaks have plans for a ground agitation, we can collect funds, ideas here (my email: [email protected]) . I think we need to create a lot of noise from all directions. We will not let GOI sleep peacefully.

Also, sign the petition and send it to your friends:
http://www.petitiononline.com/MUMx2611/petition.html


Remember:
- No one respects the weak (case exemplified by how the tiny-Israel behaved this time. Their 'analysts' spoke too soon before our wounds had healed and were almost congratulating themselves for their strong response to terrorism. They forget that they are fighting a primitive enemy with overwhelming military superiority. Even in their tiny field of operation, with everthing barricaded, and with muslim enclaves fenced, they still have regular attacks. VERY disappointed with the Israeli response. But like I said, noone respects the weak).

- Not that we needed permission, but even Obama pretty much endorsed a hard line yesterday. Privately, everyone is surprised by our inaction. Analysis is good but if its used as a cover to wait for public anger to subside, the public should not forget. Polls are in 6 months.

- We need to force our government to set benchmarks. The current congress govt has in-fact set benchmarks, however much we badmouth MMS. The no-negotiation policy and rolling of heads after the attacks are unprecedented bold steps that this govt has taken and all previous administrations haven't. We have to give credit where its due. There is one step remaining though. A military retaliation. Why are these benchmarks important? The future govts will be judged by these benchmarks. And most importantly, TSP will understand that benchmarks have been set a think a million times before acting so irrationally.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by RajeshA »

samuel.chandra wrote:The no-negotiation policy and rolling of heads after the attacks are unprecedented bold steps that this govt has taken and all previous administrations haven't. We have to give credit where its due. There is one step remaining though. A military retaliation. Why are these benchmarks important? The future govts will be judged by these benchmarks. And most importantly, TSP will understand that benchmarks have been set a think a million times before acting so irrationally.
I am completely for military retaliation traditions.

But rolling heads just for the sake of rolling heads, I find a wrong benchmark. As far as I know, no heads rolled after 911. One doesn't change one's generals in war, unless there is a complete loss of confidence in the general.

Shri Shivraj Patil ji was a mouse and he had to go. Despite all these terrorist attacks in the past, there was no discernible action on his part. He just went through the usual motions of the politician at the time of crisis, and even in that, he was a poor actor. I wouldn't even say that it was past his expiry date, but rather India was presented with a make-up set by Shrimati Sonia Gandhi ji to fight the Maoist and Islamic terrorists, so we were using the wrong product.

In protest to Mr. Naqvi earlier distasteful comments that a few protestors with some lipstick does not constitute public opinion, I would say some politicians, who are no more than lipstick, do not constitute leaders.

Yesterday when President-Elect Barrack Obama presented his national security team to the media, the American people and the world, I was wondering how huge and wise a man he is, that he is willing to bring in his rivals and such strong willed people to be part of his Administration, just because he is confident that they are competent professionals and hard-as-knuckles politicians, who can only ensure his success as President. On the other hand, Sonia Gandhi gives us a cabinet of yes men and incompetent weaklings.

Strong men surround themselves with strong men, and weak men need weak men around!
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by Neela »

Harbans and Rajesh

The message to Congress should be this.
Oust Sonia and Rahul and revamp the party.

Even now, the Indian response to these events comes from Sonia Gandhi.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism

Post by ManuT »

Anyone seen the Indian Ambassador to the US (in the media) or know who he is?
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