Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

[milindc]

just curious
Is Rahul G ji being called to address these spontaneous demonstrations against the failure of USA to protect India?

He is coming to address as soon as his friend's wedding at Delhi farm house is over...

[Kanson]

One guy at Mumbai rally "Eliminate politicians who are supported Dawood"
Other guy "No more discussions, we need to eliminate Paki Army need now"

One more observation is that the new URBAN educated generation is bunch of pansies, holding candles and proclaiming that we need to eliminate corruption, improve ourselves, everything but not blaming the culprits.

The new-gen urban youth is not revolutionary type. ...
Sad, very Sad

The middle aged comments "we want justice, we want good police, we want to eliminate politicians"

Added later: Ok there are exceptions, one girl from Kolkatta wants to take the fight to Pakis. Politicians to be blamed for these attacks.

I think you are not watching from the beginning. More voices on war with pak, intolerance on politicians..etc..

[Raju]

spider sensors are starting to pickup nasty readings here...why the obvious lies? why the confusion about how many were inside? and why the false reports of 3+ captured alive? and the two pigs coming out of the hospital just happened to run into the two biggest ATS targets?

now i am thinking that the mango variety of conspiracy theorists are right when they call certain terrorist events as 'false flag attacks'. Probably mumbai comes in one of them.

today NDTV was questioning protesting janta (same rally milindc is talking about) shouting 'Pakistan hai hai' in mumbai whether they would be willing to give up some of their 'freedoms'. Why do they ask such funny 'internationalist' questions ?

Do you need a slave population ? Is this attack an attempt to enslave populations into submissive sheep ?

I frankly miss J. N. Dixt at this juncture .. he was the only successful experiment as NSA and the only nationalist I knew.

[krish.pf]

"Kill the psuedo secularists.. they are the real terrorists. SHOOT THEM OFF and the terrorists will automatically disappear" - A Bengaluru Citizen (on CNN IBN)

Way to go...

[Philip]

Will the CNS respond please?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/navy- ... ../393549/

Navy chief says input too vague but alert gave coordinates of Lashkar ship

Pak militants directed Mumbai terror attacks: NYT
Pakistani bloggers counter anti-India rhetoric
Pak says 'no' to handing over Hafiz, Masood
Mumbai: grenades of same make

New Delhi: While Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta today claimed the Navy had not received any actionable intelligence ahead of the Mumbai attack, it now turns out that the intelligence input received on November 19 even provided the exact coordinates of the “LeT (Lashkar-e-Toiba) vessel” four days before it entered Indian waters.

The location given in the intercept, 24.16. 36 N and 67.02.04 E, shows the vessel was about 60 km off Karachi on that day hovering very close to international waters, possibly observing Indian fishing trawlers. The input states that a LeT vessel at the given coordinates was “attempting to infiltrate through sea”. It also mentions the possibility of an Indian trawler being also used for this purpose.

The Research & Analysis Wing’s input had was passed on to National Security Council Secretariat and Joint Intelligence Council. Subsequently, this was shared with the Navy and the Coast Guard. Also, it was sent to Maharashtra government.

As is now known, the terrorists first boarded a Pakistani ship Al-Hussaini and sometime around November 22-23 hijacked Indian fishing trawler Kuber. This incident could have happened in Pakistani or international waters. The terrorists used Kuber to enter Indian territorial waters and for at least 72 hours were in these waters before reaching Mumbai. The specific coordinates of the vessel, sources said, ought to have been enough for the Coast Guard and Navy to take the input more seriously and prepare for contingency action besides stepping up vigil.

However, the terrorists were able toa escape all checks by using one of the crew members as cover and pretending to be Indian fishermen.

While there have been a few such alerts this year, top officials point to the lack of analysis and coordination depending on the veracity of the input.

So, today the agencies believe that they had provided as much an accurate input they could while the Navy believes it was not enough for it to take urgent action.

Besides this, India established that the terrorists left from the Azizabad area of Karachi and this intelligence was picked up from a telephonic intercept from Pakistan to Mumbai informing the location of the expected arrival of the group.

[Philip]

Refelctions on the Mumbai massacre.
http://epaper.newindpress.com/NE/NE/200 ... ndex.shtml

Gen. S.Padmanabhan (retd.)

Unless our political class learns to be nationalistic in its outlook, no meaningful progress can be made on national security issues To say that India is ‘per se’ vulnerable to attacks is incorrect

MUMBAI was delivered a series of body blows from November 27 to 29. Many died as a result of these; and many were injured. Property worth crores was damaged. The 105 years old Taj Mahal Hotel was battered, burnt and bloodied. All India was glued to the television watching the horror being played out in the Taj, in the Oberoi Hotel, the T rident and Nariman House, all of which were badly damaged. And India too was hurt. For 48 hours, India raged. The Prime Minister got tough with Pakistan and ‘summoned’ the Pakistan ISI chief to ‘share’ intelligence. The Pakistani leadership first agreed to send him, but later demurred. In much the same way, India, which was so involved with the tragic events in Mumbai, gradually allowed the tempo of its actions and feelings to die down after a few heads rolled. And then politics began to creep back to centrestage.
Before we forget the terrible lapses that led to the Mumbai carnage, it would be appropriate if we examine what ails our approach to ‘homeland security’, a phrase popularised by the Americans post-9/11. The disease which defeats any attempt to evolve a practical national security doctrine in our country is politics – India’s very own brand of self-seeking, amoral, parochial and divisive politics.

It is this brand of politics that stands in the way of what is good for the nation as a whole rather than for one or the other political party. Practitioners of this form of politics do not hesitate to capitalise even on a national tragedy if it means they will gain some electoral advantage by doing so. It is because of such politics that any national security decision taken is not implemented, simply because the ruling coalition or the opposition conglomerate or a regional party does not agree with the decision.

Unless our political class learns to be nationalistic in its outlook, no meaningful progress can be made on national security issues. And India will continue to be at the mercy of its crass politicians. Leaving the noisome politics of our country behind, let us identify what we can do to shore up our homeland security. First of all, we need to prevent any would be terrorist from attempting any mischief against us. Deterrence such as this can be achieved by the following means:

Stringent entry and exit control through all authorised land, air and sea routes into our country Creation of a system of surveillance and detection to deal with those in truders who choose to enter the country in a clandestine manner.

Border and coastal outposts sup ported by vigorous land, sea and air patrolling will be the basis of this system. In addition, SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) equipped surveil lance satellites for maritime detec tion, UAV (Unarmed Aerial Vehi cles) and piloted aircraft, all with quick downlinks to control points, must supplement this effort Human surveillance of all trans-bor der traffic must be undertaken and continued till we are certain of the peaceful intentions of the person(s) moving into India In case the subject under surveillance is unable to establish his bona fides, surveillance must continue till his ar rest and that of his contact(s) Any dubious person supporting an il legal entrant must be dealt with rigor ously .

The illegal entrant must be treated like ‘vermin’ New laws to give effect to a tough, speedy and fair border judicial system need to be enacted with powers to im prison, deport and confiscate proper ties and documents of offenders Given adequate publicity, the new border regulations, will deter potential intruders to a very large extent. Secondly, we need to upgrade our intelligence gathering abilities. The follow ing steps are suggested:

Increase intelligence manpower in R&AW, IB, MI, the Central and state police organisations, Para-military forces, Customs and so on by a multiple of four to six.

The training of intelligence personnel must be entrusted to experts – Indian or foreign, if needed. The cardinal prin ciple that terrorists may be bred by any section of society regardless of religion, caste, creed or sex must be drilled into the minds of all intelligence opera tives.

Intelligence operatives must be well paid to keep them above temptation and give them a sense of belonging to an elite organisation.

Investigation of intelligence and na tional security cases cannot be carried out under regional or state organisa tions. There is a definite need to create a national investigation agency for this purpose by early enactment of enabling legislation in Parliament, the Constitu tion being amended, if necessary .

Thirdly, likely terrorist targets need to be identified. This will enable us to set about reducing their vulnerabilities, improving their entry control system, fire fighting capability, reaction capability in an emergency and ‘hardening’ those targets which could be attacked by car/truck bombs or stand off firing of rockets/mortars.

Targets for terrorists could be communication facilities (rail, road, air and sea), radio/TV stations, seats of administration, the legislature, courts, hospitals, religious places, shopping areas/malls, sports stadia, nuclear facilities, IT facilities, film centres, offshore oil installations, isolated islands belonging to us, ships at sea and passenger aircraft. Wherever possible, the likely targets must be kept under constant surveillance using CCTV cameras and alert watchers who will take immediate note of anything untoward and initiate action as is considered appropriate.

Fourthly, despite our best efforts, we may still have to face a terrorist strike leading to the occupation of one or more buildings (or even an isolated island), with or without hostage-taking being involved. To meet such situations, our reactions must be swift, energetic and employ appropriate levels of force and suitable tactics. In a hostage situation, for instance, failure to rescue all, or at least some of them, is a failure. Tactics must, therefore, be evolved keeping our mission objectives in mind. Special equipment and ammunition must be made available to our forces. Gases which will disable but are not lethal will be very useful in many situations such as hostages being held in confined spaces.

Finally, a word about terrorism and media — specially the round-the-clock electronic media that brings ‘the battle to one’s bedrooms’. The aim of the terrorist is to achieve maximum publicity for his cause (whatever it might be). Today, TV reporters and camera persons are quick to arrive at the scene of a terrorist strike and thereafter maintain a continuous running commentary on what is happening, what may happen, what is planned and all such nuggets of information which the terrorist needs to know. Above all, each breathless sentence uttered by our intrepid TV journalists gives the terrorist much needed publicity even as the criminal’s ego swells listening to the praise heaped on him by our gushing reporters! Do not give the terrorist free airtime. It is like oxygen to him and injurious to the health of our soldiers.

Control centres, which media persons may access periodically for situation updates, briefings, film clippings and so on should suffice to inform Mumbai, Timbuctoo and, indeed, the whole world about the goings-on in Colaba. The kind of TV coverage one got for Mumbai was not only unnecessary , it was, indeed, undesirable. And yet it was a virtuoso performance on the part of the TV channels, reporters, camerapersons et al! To conclude that a country as large as ours, with vast land and sea frontiers is, ‘per se’ vulnerable to terrorist attacks, is incorrect. Terrorist attacks on India and her offshore installations and island territories, on our ships and aircraft – why, even on our assets in space, can be prevented if we give due consideration to measures suggested in this article.

Maintaining an uncompromising deterrent stance against terrorists, upgrading our intelligence qualitatively as well as quantitatively, identifying likely targets and denying terrorists the opportunity to interfere with them by comprehensive surveillance and in the event of a terrorist attack, defeating it by use of appropriate force levels, weapons and tactics – these measures can prevent recurrence of tragedies like the Mumbai Massacre.

The media must play a more restrained and sober role, while politicians should stay well away from places where our forces and terrorists may be engaged with each other.

[vsudhir]

Milindc, pls check response thread for a directed query.

TIA.

[milindc]

NDTV propaganda terms these rallies as 'peace rallies' or 'solidarity rallies'.
All they are showing is candles and more candles.
They have already succeeded in turning the anger against politicians instead of Congress.
Job well done Barkha and Co

[Raja Ram]

Snowji,

I have known you for long now and so have you me through all those rambles. I know this is a rant. I dont know why I am addressing it to you. Some of your comments just triggered this. As it is, I have run foul of the powers that be here in these recent times. I am not helping myself by posting this. Anyway...

Today, I stand before you not knowing what to say or even what to feel. Should I laugh or cry? Should I applaud that a passive chalta hai westernized middle class has finally shown stirrings of waking up to reality? Should I despair looking at the naivete of their thinking that only thing wrong in this country are the politicians? At least they are out there doing something as they see it. I have not done anything. I do not know what I can do.

Watching this rally, I feel how we have become creatures of perceptions - perceptions often set for us by degraded westernized DIE, media and foreign forces. All this rage and yet no clarity of thought or purpose. No knowledge of real issues.

I am at a loss for words, thoughts even. Numbed and disturbed is what I feel for the last few days. I have never been a defeatist in my thinking, I have always felt that India will battle, will strive and will succeed - on her own strenghth and in her own way. Today, for the first time in days, I have to admit that doubts are emerging.

What is needed from the leadership echeleons of the country today? First - an apology to the nation on letting something like this happen - second - an assurance that this will not go unpunished- third - a demand from Pakistan on what is expected within a specified time frame. Fourth- Clearly and publicly state that in case of non compliance, India will act and will disregard Pakistani soverignity. Fifth - Start preparing for the retribution - not knee jerk public diplomacy and statements but clearly thought out overt and covert operations, economic and geo political and military counter measures, all targetted to a single outcome - decapitation of the Pakistani Army and implosion of Pakistan as a country.

Are we seeing any of that? Is any of the above an unreasonable expectation from a citizen of this country? Instead what we are getting is nothing but platitudes, media circus and the usual selling of lemons by foreign powers.

[Himanshu]

Got this in mail just now----

"Terror has struck again, 100s lost their lives, millions wounded:not just physically but also psychologically. So what can we do to prevent such mayhem ? Remember it is we who control our national security and not someone reposed matrimonially in the seats of power.

Things we can do:
1. Mandate every organisation (educational, professional) to impart students and employees a training to combat terrorist attacks.
Civilians should know how to protect themselves before rescue arrives and how to be more cautious about their surroundings.
2. Every organistation, malls, shopping & commercial areas, theatres should have very strict checkpoints, more fullproof than what we have today.
3. The cell phone providers should assign a team to monitor international calls especially to terrorist nations.
4. There should be adv on TV, theatres on how to combat and prevent terror attacks. Citizens should not be allowed to forget what just happened or let their anger subside.
5.The tax should be directed partially for improving our national security including a special task force. We should have transparency on what we are paying for.
That should exclude security guards for politicians. Politicians are employees meant to protect us like solidiers do and not a means to power and privilege.

Things the Task force can do:
6. This team should report to the President or prime minister ensuring their hands aren't tied by petty cheap politics and nepotism.
7. They should act autonomously in all major cities with no control by the state govts.
8. They should enforce regular checking in madrasas and muslim orgs to ensure that these places aren't a hotbed for terrorist activities.
9. The Task force should implement cameras in all locations throughout. And a team should monitor them regularly especially when they receive terror threats.
10. Any failure in action should be addressed directly between the autonomous task force and PM or Prez to prevent blame games or politicization.

Things the Govt can do:
11. The security of the politicans should be taken away because they have no right to security if they can't ensure the same for the common man.
12. Sever ties with Pak including Sports, art, travel."

[Singha]

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/dis ... d=12717756

The Pakistan connection

Dec 3rd 2008
From Economist.com
Where the terror trail so often leads

IT MAY have been a slip of the tongue. But there was something very revealing about a remark that Pakistan’s president, Asif Ali Zardari, made in an interview with an Indian television channel on November 30th. Asked about allegations that Pakistan was involved in the murderous onslaught on Mumbai, he promised, before the world, strict action “if any evidence points towards any individual or group in my part of the country”.

The (perhaps unintended) implication that Mr Zardari is in control of only part of Pakistan is all too true. And that helps explain why it is so difficult for India to respond.

India’s leaders seem convinced—and American intelligence officials reportedly concur—that there was some Pakistani involvement in the attack.

Specifically, they blame Lashkar-e-Taiba, which along with Jaish-e-Mohammad was one of the two most notorious militant groups set up with the connivance and help of Pakistan’s military-intelligence outfit, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), to help wage an insurgency against Indian rule in the part of Kashmir it controls. These groups now seem allied with a broader jihadist movement along the Afghan-Pakistani frontier.

The groups are alleged to have been behind—or at least lent a helping hand in—a series of bloody attacks on India: the attempt in 2001 to kill India’s leaders in a raid on parliament in Delhi; the bombing in 2003 of parts of Mumbai, including the Taj Mahal hotel, a target in the latest attack; the even bigger slaughter entailed in the co-ordinated bombing of Mumbai’s commuter rail-network in July 2006.

The first of those attacks, the assault on parliament, initially seemed to threaten all-out war. India mobilised its troops to go to the border. Foreign governments advised their citizens to avoid the subcontinent. Public opinion in both countries became alarmingly bellicose.

America, however, did not want Indo-Pakistani tension to distract Pakistan from the war on its other frontier, with Afghanistan. It put pressure on Pervez Musharraf, then Pakistan’s president, who banned the two militant groups. But they survived under different names and continued to sow violence in Kashmir and elsewhere.

Yet in 2003 when Atal Behari Vajpayee, then India’s prime minister, made friendly overtures to Pakistan, it seemed hugely popular in both countries.

Since then, when figurative Pakistani fingerprints have been found all over terrorist attacks on Indian soil, huge efforts were made not to let them derail the peace process Mr Vajpayee set in train. Promises of anti-terrorist co-operation were made; a joint commission was set up; and a gradual thawing of relations continued regardless.

By attacking India’s commercial hub and luxury hotels where many foreigners stay, the latest atrocity was designed to cause maximum damage to India’s image. It pushes India’s remarkable forbearance to its limits.

But there are two huge obstacles to India’s mounting a robust response. First, to the extent that the attackers can be said to have anything that can be dignified with the name of a strategy, it must be to provoke just the sort of confrontation that followed the 2001 raid on parliament. Pakistan has already said it would move troops to its frontier with India if need be. That would ease pressure on the Taliban and their allies on the other border.

Second, there is the problem Mr Zardari alluded to. There are large swathes of Pakistan where his writ does not run—notably in the tribal areas, but even in parts of the North-West Frontier Province.

And he is a civilian president. It is not certain the army or the ISI will follow his orders unquestioningly. An early promise to send the ISI’s chief to Delhi turned out to be a “miscommunication”.

Moreover, it does not seem in India’s interests to weaken Mr Zardari. Politically shaky at home, he has been reaching out to India: calling militants in Kashmir “terrorists”, promising no first-use of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal, urging bigger commercial links, and insisting that terrorists are his enemy as much as India’s.

The trouble is, the terrorists are not, so to speak, from his part of the country; and there seems little he can do about them—even if, as seems likely, he wants them roundly defeated.

[shaardula]

for what it is worth:
see cnn-ibn discussion: should india go to war with pakistan.
kc singh, mohhamad hanif and nic robertson

[asbchakri]

NDTV propaganda terms these rallies as 'peace rallies' or 'solidarity rallies'.
All they are showing is candles and more candles.
They have already succeeded in turning the anger against politicians instead of Congress.
Job well done Barkha and Co

Well the Candle comanys are really making a kill
All we do is Light candles, more candle and more candles
The Porkis keep lighting bombs, more bombs and more bombs

[milindc]

Will the CNS respond please?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/navy- ... ../393549/

Navy chief says input too vague but alert gave coordinates of Lashkar ship

24.16. 36 N and 67.02.04 E

Singha,
I believe you are on right track. Some one in the higher echelons of power knew about these attacks and did nothing to prevent them. There are lot of tidbits in news reflecting that line of thought.
It might be really awful for RAW to expose its capabilities right from the start of this attack. It has now let everyone know that it can intercept satellite calls and now with precise coordinates (I checked them out on Google Earth) being exposed on newspaper. Something must be really rotten...
CNS had come out and said no actionable intelligence. RAW comes out and says here are the coordinates we gave you..
1) Anthony wants to resign the first day
2) MKN wants to resign
3) Maharastra Govt says no specific input

Where the **** did this info get lost in red tape....

Added later: Why did RAW sources give this info to Shekhar Dupatta's IE ? We all know that IE is 'pro-terrorist' Congress's mouth piece. Is this after the fact information to cover the ass, not really sent to Navy..

[parshuram]

IBN Flash : Bomb Found at CST : defused

[asbchakri]

Antony warns of airborne terror threats, calls for alert .

With India's coastal security already breached by terrorists in Mumbai, Defence Minister A K Antony on Wednesday warned the armed forces of possible terror attacks from airborne platforms similar to the 9/11 attacks in the US.

Antony asked them to be prepared to counter the threat of terrorists from the air and prevent a repeat of World Trade Centre-type of attacks carried out by the Al-Qaida.

At a meeting with the three Services chief and Defence officials, Antony called for greater coordination among all security and intelligence agencies so as to make the intelligence inputs actionable.

The meeting, attended by Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major and Army chief General Deepak Kapoor and Defence Secretary Vijay Singh, also reviewed the situation along the Line of Control (LoC) with Pakistan in the wake of reports that its army was on a "high alert" following the Mumbai terror attacks.

Antony, sources said, worked out measures with the armed forces for tightening security and vigil along the LoC to prevent infiltration of terrorists through the land route, as "Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK) is known to be an important area for recruitment and training of terrorists."

The top defence brass discussed plans for beefing up coastal security and hastening acquisition process for systems and platforms including coastal radars and interceptor boats.

Of particular concern expressed at the meeting was the intelligence warning that airports around the country could be targets of terrorists, forcing the Bureau of Civil Aviation Security to issue a red alert to secure all important airports, sources added.

[Gagan]

- Deleted -

[John Snow]

Defence minister warns Chiefs, wah wah
Should the nation warn defence minister in turn

More comedy. Where is ***** *. Some how I have come to depend on him to talk about balls and droppings there of.


***
Raja Ram garu

Thanks

[asbchakri]

It seems, Kerala Government announces Rs. 15 lakh solatium to slain NSG officer Sandeep Unnikrishnan's family.

I really doubt that they will accept this after what the Kerala CM did. They lost their only son, what amount of money will end their sorrow. These idiotic politicians never learn. They think by announcing this they will wipe out the idiotic comments that thier CM made.

Really!! after every disaster like this the first thing that comes out from the politicians mouth is COMPENSATION, which mostly never reach the people.

[Raju]

They have already succeeded in turning the anger against politicians instead of Congress.

there are only three messages from any 'rally' ..

1. 'Politicians' are evil (they probably are but it's besides the point now) and they get more security. 'Politicians' are dispensible.

2. Are you willing to give up your freedoms for more security ?

3. Confuse pop through selective 'peace messages'.

[Hariprasad]

Watching TimesNow
Extremely emotional people beautifully self-flagellating. Some of them are asking why should we point to Pakistan. We should look inside, we should have war against terrorism and not against nations be it Pukistan or Bangladesh whatever that means, blame our politicians, police, navy, coast guard and so on.

[asbchakri]

Explosives found in Mumbai's CST defused .

Hours before Maharashtra Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh was scheduled to visit Chhattrapati Shivaji Terminal (CST) in Mumbai on Wednesday evening, explosive devices were found.

The police rushed and defused it immediately.

A bag of explosives was found amongst the luggage of 26/11 victims at CST.

Two bags of RDX found at Mumbai's CST Station .

Mumbai Police recovered two bags containing four kg RDX each inside Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus Station on Wednesday evening, a senior police officer said.

Joint Commissioner of Mumbai Police Rakesh Maria said the bags were found among abandoned luggage of persons who had been injured or killed in the terror attack on the night of November 26.

The bags have been taken away by the Bomb Disposal Squad, Maria said adding searches are being conducted in the station premises.

Police say the explosive was the part of the five bombs that were planted by terrorists on November 26.

[vsudhir]

Watching TimesNow
Extremely emotional people beautifully self-flagellating. Some of them are asking why should we point to Pakistan. We should look inside, we should have war against terrorism and not against nations be it Pukistan or Bangladesh whatever that means, blame our politicians, police, coast guard and so on.

Aha.

Seems like Times Now's illustrious parentage (The Benett Coleman Co and Reuters) have pulled strings and are now on 400% compensate mode for the nationalistic tenor it had started to acquire duirng the attacks.

Predictable, sadly. Was too good to last as long as it did.

[John Snow]

We at BRF were pointing out the CIA doings of color revolutions, we forgot that in Indian right under our butt there was a color revolution in full strength and thriving. See the way we internalize the attacks as if its our fault.

[Raja Ram]

The anger is genuine, the intentions of those who started are possibly genuine too.

But look at those who are taking the leadership of this rally, the same old usual pseudo liberal elite. They want a movement yes, not against perpetrators of terror, but against political classes who have brought terror too close for comfort, to their Leopolds and Taj's. The Aleque Padamsees, the Javed Akthars, all wonderful examples of bravery and champions against terror indeed. Even this voice of the people has also been well and truly hijacked by these vile people without any principles!

They still think they can divert attention from terrorists to other usual ills, communalism, political class (when it suits them they identify with it, when it doesn't call them names, be careful to avoid hurting fellow DIE in the political class now), illiteracy, sati, what not.

They will be successful. That is the tragedy. The debate now will be based on who is the real terrorist? Why it is important to look at the "real root causes"? etc.

Strange isn't it that not one placard or sentiment expressed against the wonderful specimen called journalists and mediapersons.

Did anybody care to read what Gen Paddy had to say?

Cry my beloved country Cry!

[milindc]

Watching TimesNow
Extremely emotional people beautifully self-flagellating. Some of them are asking why should we point to Pakistan. We should look inside, we should have war against terrorism and not against nations be it Pukistan or Bangladesh whatever that means, blame our politicians, police, coast guard and so on.

Aha.

Seems like Times Now's illustrious parentage (The Benett Coleman Co and Reuters) have pulled strings and are now on 400% compensate mode for the nationalistic tenor it had started to acquire duirng the attacks.

Predictable, sadly. Was too good to last as long as it did.

Times Now at least showing the aam aadmi nare baazi (e.g. pakistan hai hai)...
All NDTV is doing is showing candles and more candles. Now they stopped that as well
Both, Headlines Today and Times Now definitely better than others

The self-flagellating and pansies crowd is page-3 types, elites and urban suave educated youth... lighting candles...

[Hariprasad]

TimesNow
One more gem from the rally.
We should look beyond Pakistan. We should look at state sponsored terrorism, Hindu Muslim riots etc...This it seems is the majority of the opinion in the rally ie the self-flagellating kind.

Hope the candles scares away the terrorists next time. Condi is on TimesNow now.

[Hariprasad]

Pranab da on TimesNow directly putting the blame on Pakistan. Good, at least someone can get the point straight across. Condi is saying any action from India should not have unintended consequences. Seems a clear no-no from condi towards military action. Says non state actors are still responsibility of Pakistan.

[Nitesh]

Condi is saying that US with India. No clear indication from her towards porkis instead she is doing about co operation

[Sai]

The anger is genuine, the intentions of those who started are possibly genuine too.

But look at those who are taking the leadership of this rally, the same old usual pseudo liberal elite. They want a movement yes, not against perpetrators of terror, but against political classes who have brought terror too close for comfort, to their Leopolds and Taj's. The Aleque Padamsees, the Javed Akthars, all wonderful examples of bravery and champions against terror indeed. Even this voice of the people has also been well and truly hijacked by these vile people without any principles!

They still think they can divert attention from terrorists to other usual ills, communalism, political class (when it suits them they identify with it, when it doesn't call them names, be careful to avoid hurting fellow DIE in the political class now), illiteracy, sati, what not.

They will be successful. That is the tragedy. The debate now will be based on who is the real terrorist? Why it is important to look at the "real root causes"? etc.

Strange isn't it that not one placard or sentiment expressed against the wonderful specimen called journalists and mediapersons.

Did anybody care to read what Gen Paddy had to say?

Cry my beloved country Cry!

They are not successful and they won't be successful. Please don't be swayed by what TV cameras show you. Why do you think others can't see through what you can?

[milindc]

Condi says "Non-state actors act within confines of the state. This calls for proper response"
"Non-actors is still matter of responsibility if it is from your territory"

Condi is not talking about 'restrain and resilient' crap. The statement is explicit, we are with you and international community is standing with solidarity behind you.

Pranap Da's 'Freedom Father' lineage is finally coming forth. He is very explicit in laying the blame to Pakis (The terrorists are from Pakistan and controlled by Pakistan)
He said we have issued demarche, we are waiting for response. Our response will depend on the demarch response from Pakis. We will protect our territory and India people are angry.

Condi was explicit.. no playing with words. We are with you along with International players.
Pranab Da was explicit and blamed Pakistan saying that it was not just one attack, but series of attack at Tourist center Jaipur, Capital Delhi, Financial Capital Mumbai, Technology Center Bangalore. The goal is to attack India's Financial, Technological and Development....

In diplomatic language, it was very explicit warning to Pakis.. act or else prepare...

My take after this conf call is

PREPARE FOR WAR

[RajeshA]

Condi: "we need to let the facts lead where they may ..."

Is USA open-minded this time?

[SaiK]

We at BRF were pointing out the CIA doings of color revolutions, we forgot that in Indian right under our butt there was a color revolution in full strength and thriving. See the way we internalize the attacks as if its our fault.

there ain't untruth here at all.. its our fault to have a loophole filled setup.

btw, lets not get carried with emotions, and lose the track to hit pakis for a final time.

[Pranay]

Way to go Thomas Friedman....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/03/opini ... an.html?hp

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: December 2, 2008
On Feb. 6, 2006, three Pakistanis died in Peshawar and Lahore during violent street protests against Danish cartoons that had satirized the Prophet Muhammad. More such mass protests followed weeks later. When Pakistanis and other Muslims are willing to take to the streets, even suffer death, to protest an insulting cartoon published in Denmark, is it fair to ask: Who in the Muslim world, who in Pakistan, is ready to take to the streets to protest the mass murders of real people, not cartoon characters, right next door in Mumbai?

After all, if 10 young Indians from a splinter wing of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party traveled by boat to Pakistan, shot up two hotels in Karachi and the central train station, killed at least 173 people, and then, for good measure, murdered the imam and his wife at a Saudi-financed mosque while they were cradling their 2-year-old son — purely because they were Sunni Muslims — where would we be today? The entire Muslim world would be aflame and in the streets.

So what can we expect from Pakistan and the wider Muslim world after Mumbai? India says its interrogation of the surviving terrorist indicates that all 10 men come from the Pakistani port of Karachi, and at least one, if not all 10, were Pakistani nationals.

First of all, it seems to me that the Pakistani government, which is extremely weak to begin with, has been taking this mass murder very seriously, and, for now, no official connection between the terrorists and elements of the Pakistani security services has been uncovered.

At the same time, any reading of the Pakistani English-language press reveals Pakistani voices expressing real anguish and horror over this incident. Take for instance the Inter Press Service news agency article of Nov. 29 from Karachi: “ ‘I feel a great fear that [the Mumbai violence] will adversely affect Pakistan and India relations,’ the prominent Karachi-based feminist poet and writer Attiya Dawood told I.P.S. ‘I can’t say whether Pakistan is involved or not, but whoever is involved, it is not the ordinary people of Pakistan, like myself, or my daughters. We are with our Indian brothers and sisters in their pain and sorrow.’ ”

But while the Pakistani government’s sober response is important, and the sincere expressions of outrage by individual Pakistanis are critical, I am still hoping for more. I am still hoping — just once — for that mass demonstration of “ordinary people” against the Mumbai bombers, not for my sake, not for India’s sake, but for Pakistan’s sake.

Why? Because it takes a village. The best defense against this kind of murderous violence is to limit the pool of recruits, and the only way to do that is for the home society to isolate, condemn and denounce publicly and repeatedly the murderers — and not amplify, ignore, glorify, justify or “explain” their activities.

Sure, better intelligence is important. And, yes, better SWAT teams are critical to defeating the perpetrators quickly before they can do much damage. But at the end of the day, terrorists often are just acting on what they sense the majority really wants but doesn’t dare do or say. That is why the most powerful deterrent to their behavior is when the community as a whole says: “No more. What you have done in murdering defenseless men, women and children has brought shame on us and on you.”

Why should Pakistanis do that? Because you can’t have a healthy society that tolerates in any way its own sons going into a modern city, anywhere, and just murdering everyone in sight — including some 40 other Muslims — in a suicide-murder operation, without even bothering to leave a note. Because the act was their note, and destroying just to destroy was their goal. If you do that with enemies abroad, you will do that with enemies at home and destroy your own society in the process.

“I often make the comparison to Catholics during the pedophile priest scandal,” a Muslim woman friend wrote me. “Those Catholics that left the church or spoke out against the church were not trying to prove to anyone that they are anti-pedophile. Nor were they apologizing for Catholics, or trying to make the point that this is not Catholicism to the non-Catholic world. They spoke out because they wanted to influence the church. They wanted to fix a terrible problem” in their own religious community.

We know from the Danish cartoons affair that Pakistanis and other Muslims know how to mobilize quickly to express their heartfelt feelings, not just as individuals, but as a powerful collective. That is what is needed here.

Because, I repeat, this kind of murderous violence only stops when the village — all the good people in Pakistan, including the community elders and spiritual leaders who want a decent future for their country — declares, as a collective, that those who carry out such murders are shameful unbelievers who will not dance with virgins in heaven but burn in hell. And they do it with the same vehemence with which they denounce Danish cartoons.

Maureen Dowd is off today.

[Nitesh]

Watch Times Now people are literally calling "Pakistan as epicenter of terrorism"

[milindc]

Guys,
Watch TimesNow.
Finally finally the Dahi-Handi crowd and 'A*hole' swearing crowd is on roads. Thank God
Now, I have faith. Faith in Dhoni type no shit taking crowd...

Comments from huge crowds.
We will gather again
We will not forgive now...
enough divinity is shown
show the rouge state of Pakistan

Raja Ram and All,

All is not lost. Keep faith..

Personally, I felt like an asshole in Mumbai local who was watching a mentally retarded girl getting raped and hiding my face in shame.

No more, at least Today my spirits are lifted.. pessimist in me thinks it is fleeting glimpse of hope, but there is Hope

[svinayak]

We at BRF were pointing out the CIA doings of color revolutions, we forgot that in Indian right under our butt there was a color revolution in full strength and thriving. See the way we internalize the attacks as if its our fault.

This question was asked in PBS newshour - Why is the anger not against Pakistan but against the political class. Bharka Dutt is being questioned on the response of the people. So opinion making is being directed and manufactured by the fourth estate. They have tried to deflect the target and opinions away from Congress.

[uddu]

NDTV propaganda terms these rallies as 'peace rallies' or 'solidarity rallies'.
All they are showing is candles and more candles.
They have already succeeded in turning the anger against politicians instead of Congress.
Job well done Barkha and Co

The BJP seems to have hijacked the candle light peace rallies into Deep Jalao Aaatank Hatao rallies.

[uddu]

Condi: "we need to let the facts lead where they may ..."

Is USA open-minded this time?

Seems the U.S.A wants to hit the Pakis real hard. They are getting a partner to take out Pak without any trouble. It is going to be U.S and U.K from Afghanistan and Indian from the east. Pakis in real trouble.

[amdavadi]

I suspect, pranab da had little chatter with dhoni, gambhir & harbhajan or he got inspire how team India kick her majesty's little piglet's ass.

i heard lot of war cries, and how we need to finish paki problem for ever.

I keep hearing two terms for political office.. This is surely master by outside forces, as we saw in eastern europe. MMS wasnt willing do unkil's dirty work in Afghanistan or pakistan, now put the people who will do that... I dont mind as long as we can solve paki problem of once & for all

pakis>paki army> terrorist