Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

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vsudhir
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by vsudhir »

Meanwhile US talking heads continue to pour forth:

Link
Transnational terrorism still remains mostly Islamist in nature. Very few impoverished Hindu, Christian, or Sikh terrorists go abroad to murder civilians. Nor are the wretched poor of Brazil or Haiti organizing mass-murdering assaults against foreigners and Western iconic targets in their cities.

Third, the serial excuses of Pakistan are also beginning to wear thin. Hundreds of Indians have been killed by Pakistani terrorists, who have routinely attacked both foreigners and Christians in their own country. It is now over seven years since more than 3,000 innocent Americans were murdered on orders from terrorists now all but certainly in sanctuary in Pakistan — and whom we are still told cannot be extradited.

So despite billions of dollars in American military and financial assistance given to Pakistan, nothing really changes. When pressed to explain the apparent role of the Pakistani military or intelligence services in turning a blind eye to jihadists, the government — whether a Pervez Musharraf in uniform or now civilian President Asif Ali Zardari (formerly known as “Mr. Ten Percent” for allegations of graft) — still politely offers a variety of clichés.

The Pakistani borderlands are beyond the government’s control. Pressuring the existing government for either more order or more democracy will lead only to worse alternatives — such as a takeover by fundamentalist clerics, authoritarian generals, or weak democrats whose plebiscites will ensure rule by popular fanatics. No Pakistani leader of any stripe ever quite takes responsibility of the government for the mayhem committed by its own citizens or foreigners on its soil.

Instead, there always seems an implied threat that it would be unwise to push too far a volatile Pakistan that possesses nuclear weapons, or whose fanaticism makes it immune from classical laws of nuclear deterrence, or whose poverty and mismanagement ensure that it simply cannot be expected to meet international norms of behavior.
And having said all those cute things, VDH ultimately says he doesn't see US as having any other options.
Just as I didn’t envy George W. Bush’s lose/lose dilemma in dealing with Pakistan and global Islamic terrorism, so too I can only sympathize with President-Elect Obama, who faces the same dismal choices.
Wrong, sir. There's a win/win alternative for both the US and India. And that is join forces and physically denuke TSP; to bomb away the TSPA/ISI high command and thereby their ability to inflict harm on anybody including pakistani politicians and common people; To dismember TSP into its natural sub-nationalities, and to merge PoK-NA with India as a stable, secure land bridge to Afghanistan for US forces and bases there.

BTW, didn't some packee govrmand official once squeal that TSP will nuke yindia regardless of who (US/Israel) attacks their N assets? What has been Dillli's response, if any? Time to let TSPA know that we will hold them and the PRC responsible regardless of whatever plausible deniability they seek to hide under if and when the next JDAM goes off in any part of yindia.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Yogeshwar »

This is a challenging time and those living in pardes often run into "whats this happening in india" questions from pardesis.

I ran into one pinko desi who was trying to explain to a pardesi that India was never really a country and that Gandhi helped put it together...blah...blah ... Since I was a little spirited, I could not resist and interrupted them and said I beg to differ.........

I gave them the synopsys of the following page

http://sankrant.sulekha.com/blog/post/2 ... nation.htm

I wanted to re-post this link for all to read and understand and be able to answer many questions about why we are one country........The link address was posted a long time ago and has changed. so this is the new link .

Be proud of our heritage!

....
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by svinayak »

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122841737710879917.html


Pakistan Won't Cooperate with India
The U.S. is pushing the wrong agenda.


By SUMIT GANGULY | From today's Wall Street Journal Asia

Upon her arrival in New Delhi this week, United States Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said she expected the Pakistani regime to "cooperate fully and transparently" with India to try and bring the perpetrators of last week's terrorist outrage in Mumbai to justice. Ms. Rice's position -- though seemingly sensible -- is actually off the mark. The regime of President Asif Ali Zardari has no incentive whatsoever to cooperate with India to ensure that the terrorists who were responsible for the Mumbai attacks are actually apprehended.

Pakistan has pursued a successful strategy of asymmetric warfare through jihadists since the outbreak of an ethno-religious insurgency in Kashmir in 1989. Part of Islamabad's strategy is to appear cooperative. After members of two jihadi groups, Jaish-e-Mohammed and the Lashkar-e-Taiba, attacked the Indian parliament on Dec. 13, 2001, for instance, then-President Pervez Musharraf nominally banned both entities. He placed their leaders under house arrest and had many of the terror groups' members arrested. On Jan. 12, 2002, he declared he would not allow Pakistani territory to be used for acts of terror.

Thanks to persistent American prodding, the two sides embarked on a peace process in 2004. The two sides agreed on a cease-fire along the Line of Control, the de facto international border in Kashmir, expanded people-to-people contacts and loosened travel restrictions.

Yet even in those times of apparent peace, Pakistan did not wholly abandon the jihadi option. As the inaugural bus service between Srinagar in Indian-controlled Kashmir and Muzzafarbad in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir was about to depart in April 2005, terrorists attacked the tourist reception center. The military regime in Islamabad issued a predictable communiqué condemning the attack while suggesting that it was the work of miscreants intent on undermining the nascent peace process.

Pakistan's standing in the Indian public eye has waned in recent months -- even before the Mumbai attacks. Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency was linked to an attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul on July 7 this year. The suicide bombing, which leveled significant portions of the embassy, resulted in the deaths of several Indian Embassy personnel, including India's defense attaché. In the aftermath of the attack India raised the matter in the next round of the diplomatic dialogue between the two sides, to little effect.

Now in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks, when a substantial corpus of circumstantial evidence is confirming a Pakistani connection, Mr. Zardari is recycling old, familiar tactics. He immediately rebuffed Indian Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee's request to extradite some 20 suspects to India. And he insists that India proffer evidence of Pakistani complicity before the country takes any steps to bring the culprits to book. Moreover, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed and Maulana Masood Azar, the heads of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed, continue to operate openly in the Pakistani cities of Lahore and Quetta.

This puts India in a tough spot. The Congress Party-led government in New Delhi cannot reveal the sources and methods of its intelligence intercepts -- especially at a moment as politically fraught as the present. Indian policy makers also cannot be seen to do nothing. It is a dangerous impasse.

Given these circumstances, if the U.S. wishes to bolster its growing relationship with India and demonstrate its seriousness in combating the global jihadi menace, it needs to call Pakistan's bluff. Only sustained American pressure designed to induce Pakistan to dismantle what Indian security analysts refer to as "the infrastructure of terror" will produce the right outcome.

Without this U.S. pressure, Pakistan and India will continue the same diplomatic dance that they've been doing for years, to little effect. The victims of the Mumbai bombings, and the city's terrified residents, deserve better.

Mr. Ganguly is a professor of political science and the director of research of the Center on American and Global Security at Indiana University, Bloomington.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by shyamd »

Debka:
Mumbai Terror - I
Pakistan's ISI Drags India into Afghan-Pakistan Imbroglio to Disrupt Obama's Plans
Rogue ISI elements determined to change the course of the Afghanistan war by forcing a military showdown between India and Pakistan. Islamabad would divert to the Indian border the 100,000 troops fighting Taliban and al Qaeda.

Mumbai Terror – II
Pakistani Intelligence Lays a Red Herring – or Two
Lashkar e-Taibe operatives were told by ISI backers to hush talk of a Mumbai attack six weeks before the event. US and Indian intelligence eavesdroppers were gulled into believing the terrorist operation had been cancelled.

Mumbai Terror – III
Indian Retaliatory Raids inside Pakistan Impending
The Singh government cannot afford to put off its reprisal raids in Pakistan until its blunders and lapses have been repaired. Indians are clamoring for revenge for the Mumbai outrage. Commando forces will be expanded six fold.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by vsudhir »

Mumbai Police ignores leads from UP STF (India Today)
Talking to India Today, the SSP STF Amitabh Yash explained that during their interrogations, the two who had fake passports also, had revealed that their group members were conspiring to raid Mumbai's Stock Exchange and other vital installations. The arrested terrorists had also divulged that some other terrorists were also trying to sneak into India and has plans to destablise and disturb the financial capital of the country.

Fahim during investigations had confessed that he was originally a resident of Goregaon in Mumbai and had gone to Dubai where he was brainwashed by some "friends" who took him to Pakistan's Muzaffarbad for six month training organised by the Lashkar-e-Toiba.

With the help of the officials of the Pakistani government Fahim was handed over a passport to shuttle between India, Nepal and Pakistan. Fahim was basically trained with others to strike in Mumbai and visited Mumbai many times, mapped out Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST), Bombay Stock Exchange (BSE), Taj and other important destinations .When he was arrested by the STF the sleuths had recovered maps of the vital installations of Mumbai and some other documents .Later on a change of plan, Fahim and his friends were given "assignment" of ambushing the CRPF camp in Rampur where he was arrested with others.
Fake passports and Nepal being the principal conduit b/w India and TSP. Nothing new here, true.

BUt the Faheem turduddin is IM, native in mumbai. Am sure skweezing his nuts a little more will yield some clues abt where possible safe-houses and hideouts of the other gang members are.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by NRao »

CNN :: Authorities: Mumbai attackers had help
From Brian Todd
CNN

(CNN) -- The attackers who killed nearly 180 people last week in Mumbai, India, had help from a Bangladeshi national, Indian security sources told CNN sister network CNN-IBN.

The Bangladeshi national bought cell phone SIM cards for the attackers at several locations inside India, the sources said Thursday.

SIM cards -- subscriber identity modules -- are portable memory-chips that make it easy to switch cell phones. Intelligence experts say they're used by terrorists to throw their pursuers off the trail.

Indian authorities believe all the attackers were Pakistanis, specifically blaming Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT), an Islamic militant group based in Pakistan. LeT has denied any responsibility for the attacks, but the sole surviving gunmen told interrogators he was trained by LeT, Indian authorities have said.

Pakistani authorities denied the attackers were from their country, instead blaming what they call "non-state" actors.

But one analyst who studies India-Pakistan tensions believes this operation was planned and carried out by militants from Bangladesh, Pakistan -- and India.

"They needed people on the ground who could guide them and provided the inside dope," said Shuja Nawaz, author of "Crossed Swords," which analyzes the role of Pakistan's military in the country's politics. "Otherwise, the Lashkar doesn't have the capacity to have cased the joints, to have made all these plans and get these people into the target area so effectively."

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who traveled to the region this week to meet with Indian and Pakistani officials, hit hard on the need for Pakistan to root out Islamic extremists inside its borders.

The Pakistani leadership must understand "the importance of doing that, particularly in rooting out terrorists and rounding up whoever perpetrated this attack from wherever it was perpetrated, whatever its sources, wherever the leads go," Rice said.

Meanwhile, Indian police swiftly handled a "security scare" at New Delhi's major airport early Friday amid heightened security at the nations airports. Watch what was known about the scare »

Intelligence reports indicated terrorists may be planning an airborne attack.

"This is based on a little warning which has been received," Indian Air Force chief Maj. Fali Homi said. "That's all, nothing else. We are prepared as usual."

Indian officials are also weighing how to tighten security along their coasts, where the Mumbai attackers entered the country.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by NRao »

Duplicate deleted.
Last edited by NRao on 05 Dec 2008 08:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by gandharva »

How Deep is Pakistani Involvement in the Mumbai Attack?
By Ishaan Tharoor / Mumbai Thursday, Dec. 04, 2008

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice landed in Islamabad on Thursday walking on a diplomatic tight-rope. She had just been through India and knew that New Delhi wanted Washington's help in getting Pakistan to crack down on groups implicated in last week's terror attack on Mumbai. But she also knew that such a crackdown would be unpopular in Pakistan and could very well destabilize its weak civilian government. How then to mollify India's saber-rattling public while getting Pakistan's officials to act against their own interest? The two nuclear-powered nations of the subcontinent have been to war against each other three times, and tempers are now rising on both sides of the border.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 39,00.html
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by NRao »

India has proof ISI trained Mumbai attackers: Sources
Nidhi Razdan
Senior Anchor and Senior Special Correspondent
Thursday, December 04, 2008 5:46 PM (New Delhi)
More than a week after the Mumbai attack, sources have told NDTV that India has proof that the ISI mastermined the Mumbai attack. Sources in fact say that they are 100% certain that the attack was authorised by Pakistan's intelligence agency. They say the attack was very well organised, with sophisticated equipment and logistics.

Sources say India has specific evidence on the ISI's role -- the names of the ISI trainers and the names of the places where the terrorists were trained. In fact sources say it doesn't appear that the terrorists simply took a chance and hijacked an Indian boat to come to Mumbai. There was definitely more planning than that.

Sources say that given the close links between the ISI and the army, they find it hard to imagine that the army wasn't aware of this plot. But here's a crucial point. They say they don't believe President Asif Ali Zardari's civilian government is involved. In fact they described Zardari as irrelevant -- even as a power tussle takes place between him and the army-ISI combine.

Sources say the Mumbai attack could have been one way of the army and the ISI reasseerting that they call the shots and that there could be a strategy by the army to take over power if tensions with India significantly rise.

The other important information is that Admiral Mike Mullen, the head of the US joint chiefs of staff, has told Islamabad they have to arrest Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) chief Hafeez Sayeed. And that there is no point denying it. The Americans have evidence. Sources in fact say America has a lot of evidence on the attacks and has shared that information with India.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by NRao »

India MUST go in to SAVE Prez Z.

The one and only.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by NRao »

On a more serious note, Zardari can do nothing.

The ONLY way to deal with ISI is to break the country.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by NRao »

How LOW can Pakistanis get?

Imran warns England from travelling to India
Pakistan cricket legend Imran Khan has advised England against travelling to India for a two-match Test series in the wake of last week's Mumbai killings, pointing out that Westerners especially Britons were the prime targets of the terrorists.
Cheap human being.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by NRao »

US intelligence chief blames LeT

He was waiting fro Dr. Rice's aircraft to leave Paki air space?
S RajagopalanFirst Published : 04 Dec 2008 04:21:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 04 Dec 2008 05:35:07 PM IST
WASHINGTON: US Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell has gone public by implicating the banned Lashkar-e- Toiba (LeT) for the Mumbai carnage.


Without explicitly naming the LeT but leaving no one in any doubt where his finger was pointed, McConnell said during an address to Harvard University on Tuesday night that the “same group” was behind the attack on the Indian Parliament in 2001 and the Mumbai train blasts in 2006.

“The same group that we believe is responsible for Mumbai had a similar attack in 2006 on a train and killed a similar number of people,” he said adding: “Go back to 2001 and it was an attack on the Parliament.” Senior counter-terrorism officials have been saying much the same thing in recent days about the LeT.

On Wednesday, the New York Times cited a senior official as saying: “There’s very little doubt that LeT is responsible, but beyond that we need to learn more.” “If you examine the groups that we think are responsible, the philosophical underpinnings are very similar to what Al-Qaeda puts out in their view of how the world should be. It is a continuation,” Mc- Connell said.

PAKISTAN SLAMMED

His remarks came on a day when a US congressional commission came out with a report, slamming Pakistan for its state of affairs and making the point that this “ally” could prove to be an “unwitting source of a terrorist attack on the US, possibly with weapons of mass destruction”.

“If one has to map terrorism and weapons of mass destruction today, all roads would intersect in Pakistan,” said the report, ‘World at Risk’, adding that it is more dangerous than Iran.

“Pakistan must top the list of priorities for the next President and the Congress,” the report said, urging the next administration to implement a comprehensive policy towards Pakistan.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Raja Bose »

gandharva wrote:
How Deep is Pakistani Involvement in the Mumbai Attack?
By Ishaan Tharoor / Mumbai Thursday, Dec. 04, 2008
How then to mollify India's saber-rattling public while getting Pakistan's officials to act against their own interest?
I see....India gets attacked 100s get killed...clear proof of Pakistan's complicity and people wanting action against such terrorist acts is sabre rattling!!@!#@!# :evil: Was American public's response to attack Afghanistan also sabre rattling....someone needs to ask this Ishaan Tharoor? Are Indian lives cheaper than American ones??? :evil: :evil:
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Singha »

Ian botham has come out in a public statement supporting English team to play the two tests and show solidarity with India. KP also
has talked harmison and flintoff to come along if the team comes...now they are flying to abu dhabi for practice.

in same situation, imagine the drama the Aus team and media would have created.

english_team_brownie_points_with_BR ++ ;
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by sum »


Modules from Delhi, Bengal helped in Mumbai attacks

Vicky Nanjappa in Mumbai

December 04, 2008 18:25 IST
Busting the local modules which helped carry out the Mumbai terror attacks [Images] has become extremely important for the Mumbai Anti Terrorist Squad.

While it was initially believed that a local module from Mumbai helped carry out the operation, preliminary investigations reveal that the terrorists from Pakistan used two modules to help carry out the attacks.

Intelligence Bureau officials probing the case along with the Mumbai ATS and who are simultaneously interrogating the lone terrorist in custody, Ajmal Kasab, have identified these modules to come from West Bengal and New Delhi [Images].

IB sources say the Lashkar e Tayiba, which masterminded the terror attacks on Mumbai, had deliberately avoided using a module from Mumbai as it would have left a trail which would have made the investigators' job easy. While the LeT has dedicated modules in New Delhi, in West Bengal it used modules reporting to the Harkat ul Jihad al Islami based in Bangladesh. The LeT and HuJI share a symbiotic relationship.

In New Delhi, the LeT has around six modules while in West Bengal there are around 10 modules which are directly under the control of the HuJI.

These local modules played a key role in carrying out the terror strikes on Mumbai and members from these modules conducted a detailed study of the targets ahead of the actual attack.

Sources say these modules could have been working on the Mumbai strikes for the past year, and the series of blasts in the country conducted by smaller modules such as the Students Islamic Movement of India and other groups could have actually served to distract the security forces.

The IB says while the logistics were worked out by the local modules, they are still trying to ascertain who could have funded the operation. The Dawood Ibrahim link is under probe here, the IB says.

Both the Delhi and the West Bengal police are looking into the involvement of local modules, the IB says, and the latter is already on the job of finding out how the SIM cards used by the terrorists were procured from Bengal
Slowly, the facts start to tumble out....
Maybe, more "local stuff" will slip out after the local elections are done!!!!
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Sumeet »

Singha,

Even ECB chief Mr Clarke said something in our support. So did Nasseer Hussain. Only Boycott was against England touring but then he didn't say anything detrimental to our morale and self respect.

However, all this is fine let them come first. And in the end its our responsibility to make sure our counter terrorism units are good enough so that our interaction with civilized world goes uninterrupted.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Singha »

IBNLive:
Delhi airport firing: Sequence of events | Gunshots?

New Delhi: A security scare at Delhi’s Indira Gandhi International airport in the early hours of Friday triggered panic among passengers and sent security officials into a tizzy.

The chaos began when a sound similar to gunshots were reportedly heard from the facility.

The control room of the CISF received a call at around 1.10 am IST from passengers that they heard sound of gunshots from one of the gates of international departure lounge of the airport.

The security was immediately stepped up but police could not ascertain the cause and the nature of firing. "We received a call that some passengers heard a sound similar to two gunshots, but there were no eyewitnesses. No evidence has so far come up to suggest that it was a firing and we cannot confirm it as a gunshot," DIG, CISF Udayan Banerjee said.

Soon after, a white Toyota Qualis vehicle tried to approach the arrival terminal from the wrong side.

It also sped past the security check at the exit gate. Reports also suggest that the men driving the Qualis may have fired the gunshots.

When asked if the number plate was noticed, DIG, CISF Udayan Banerjee said they weren’t about that but the vehicle reportedly bore a Haryana registration number.

All exit gates were immediately closed and intensive search operations were launched. The arrival and departure of flights was temporarily suspended following the incident but resumed shortly after.

Banerjee added the passenger movement was normal and arrival and departure was also functioning smoothly, "After the sound, the CISF and Delhi Police deployment swung into action and intensified the checking at the airport”.

Delhi police spokesperson Rajan Bhagat said, "a call was received that three to four rounds of firing has taken place at the airport but no one was injured. We are not yet sure whether any firing actually took place. We are verifying the facts," he said.

CISF officials said all preventive measures have been taken and a security drill has been put in place.

Airports across the country were put on high alert on Thursday in the wake of intelligence reports that terrorists from Pakistan or Afghanistan may strike using a hijacked aircraft even as the Indian Air Force said it was ready to counter a 9/11-type aerial attack on New York.

Additional contingents of CISF and police inside and outside the Delhi airport has already been deployed, authorities said.

Senior CISF personnel have also arrived at the scene, he said.

Reports suggested that it could also have been a mock drill, but senior officials of the CISF denied it.

(With PTI inputs)
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by CRamS »

NRao wrote:How LOW can Pakistanis get?

Imran warns England from travelling to India
Pakistan cricket legend Imran Khan has advised England against travelling to India for a two-match Test series in the wake of last week's Mumbai killings, pointing out that Westerners especially Britons were the prime targets of the terrorists.
Cheap human being.
With human beings like these, we other human beings have the gall to suggest that animals are uncivilized. This Jihadi Mofo is probably disappointed that the terror attacks by his Paki boys didn't have the desired effect of reducing India to TSP :-).
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Sumeet »

gandharva wrote:
How Deep is Pakistani Involvement in the Mumbai Attack?
By Ishaan Tharoor / Mumbai Thursday, Dec. 04, 2008

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice landed in Islamabad on Thursday walking on a diplomatic tight-rope. She had just been through India and knew that New Delhi wanted Washington's help in getting Pakistan to crack down on groups implicated in last week's terror attack on Mumbai. But she also knew that such a crackdown would be unpopular in Pakistan and could very well destabilize its weak civilian government. How then to mollify India's saber-rattling public while getting Pakistan's officials to act against their own interest? The two nuclear-powered nations of the subcontinent have been to war against each other three times, and tempers are now rising on both sides of the border.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 39,00.html

i left a comment thru yahoo buzz

"The use of words "Saber-Rattling" for Indian public who has been subjected to continuous terror since 1989 & even during the period of medieval India is utterly hypocritical considering its coming from the side of the world that has exploited most other countries under imperialism for centuries at stretch, barged into a poor nation on basis of lies throwing UN & all its regulations aside. Moreover, don't forget who played a significant role in growth of Islamic fanaticism and then left poor Afghans to live at the mercy of barbarians. May I ask if TIME called Americans saber rattling when Clinton issued cruise missile strike provoked by something like bombings of US embassy. In this year itself we not only had our embassy bombed but our financial capital brutally attacked leading to deaths of several people. Hopefully the editors of TIME and the author who either is Indian or of Indian origin find some time for introspection and give up duplicity."
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Sumeet »

singha on a second note i think brits understand what is it to be with pukes. May their understanding increase manifold as paki population increases there manifold.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by vdas »

Raja Bose wrote:
gandharva wrote:
I see....India gets attacked 100s get killed...clear proof of Pakistan's complicity and people wanting action against such terrorist acts is sabre rattling!!@!#@!# :evil: Was American public's response to attack Afghanistan also sabre rattling....someone needs to ask this Ishaan Tharoor? Are Indian lives cheaper than American ones??? :evil: :evil:


Are Indian lives cheaper than American ones == YES

but why indian lives are cheaper ?
They have a strong military .... smart economist who can sell their debts to other counties ....

Condi RIce came to india first and all media and politicians went gaga ..... and everyone started shouting ... US is with us ...what happened when she went to pakistan ..... role reversal ....

Bush will say we are with INDIA and everybody starts contemplating joint strikes by US and INDIA ...
Obama will say this is a mayhem for india and the world and we will hurrah ... world is with us

we have made ourselves into joke

Americans themselves value american lives .... DO WE IN INDIA ?
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by SaiK »

Lets take it in constructive sense.. Normally saber rattling word is used with keeping military as the context. If they think Indian public is equivalent to a military power, hurray!~ we are the most powerful people on the earth. What do you say!? Do we need any real weapons? few of our awaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzz! is enough to shake the world.

BTW, these noise for a planned outgoing govt? They must watch who are keeping quite. The clock is ticking now. mumbai attacks are a demo onlee for the west!
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Rangudu »

Despite the hustle and bustle of US visitors and all the noise, one thing is clear - India is alone here. No one will help us. No one will fight our battles for us. What's worse, even in a tragedy like this, other countries will not mind stepping in and exploiting it for their own purposes.

There are only a few things that India can do to TSP. However, they will not be sufficient. There are plenty of things that we have to do within India.

The most important of this is to not let our next generation be as self-goal putting as this current Dil Chahta Hai types. Those guys are just now feeling the heat. But we need to prepare our country for a long, long confrontation. A country united against a common external threat is a powerful weapon.

Sadly for us, that external enemy will not stop from remind us that he exists.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by ramana »

I feel like that scientist guy in the first Star Wars who decodes R2D2's plans of the Death Star to find its weak spot. I am working on a blueprint that is doable. Will post it once I have polished the details.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Raj Malhotra »

Almost all the BRites are on the same length but I have a personal disagreement over one issue here. We have NOT carefully considered whether Pakistan threat to withdraw troops from FATA is genuine or bogus. I say & submit that Pakistan will never, never, never ever actually withdraw troops from FATA. It causes them following losses:-

1. Stoppage of Billions of dollars of US re-imbursement & arms aid for doing nothing. (In fact BRites in USA should claim that Pakistan has already withdrawn troops from FATA & call upon their Senators/Congressmen to stop re-imbursement.)

2. Gives space to RAW to act in Pakistan interior like liberation of mini-Pakistans

3. Gives space to US & Afghan intelligence agencies to take out Taliban/Al Keeda who are under protection of Pak Army.

4. Imposes cost on Pak Army budget for mobilizing on Indian border.


Hence Indian Army SHOULD mobilize on border and scr*w Pak economy. Though mobilization should be slow and methodical rather than mad rush to border like the last time. We should peak for action around First week of January, and coil to strike once every month for atleast 3-4 months keeping Pakis in tension about "To be or not to be". In fact, if possible some action in Siachin, Kargil, Sir Creek would not be a bad idea at all. We should publically deny in international media that we are going to take any action while preparing on ground to take action. This will protect Indian international business interests while keeping Pakistan on tender hooks.

US BRites if possible should bring a legal action against State of Pakistan in local US court for funding terrorism & killing of US citizens and ask for attachment of bi-lateral and multi-lateral aid. (I am not joking!)
Last edited by Raj Malhotra on 05 Dec 2008 10:39, edited 1 time in total.
Raja Bose
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Raja Bose »

Rangudu wrote:Despite the hustle and bustle of US visitors and all the noise, one thing is clear - India is alone here. No one will help us. No one will fight our battles for us. What's worse, even in a tragedy like this, other countries will not mind stepping in and exploiting it for their own purposes.
The faster that our spineless netas understand that....the better. I think most of common public has already understood that....now they must speak via their votes. We keep whining why unkil cant see absolute merit of our case....isnt our case just...etc. etc. Only now we are learning that our interests are only our own...other countries will neither have the responsibility nor the inclination to safeguard it for us....we have to do it! even pakis have realized that decades ago while our gandhian netas are busy playing lapdog.
vdas
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by vdas »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7765875.stm


By Syed Shoaib Hasan
BBC News, Muridke, Pakistan


"As you can see for yourselves, this is not a training facility for terrorists," says Abdullah Muntazir.

Mr Muntazir is a spokesman for the Jamaat-ud-Dawa organisation, an Islamic charity.

The organisation has been labelled a political front for the militant organization, Lashkar-e-Toiba (Army of the Pure).

The Lashkar has been fighting the Indian armed forces in the disputed territory of Kashmir since 1990 and has been accused of hitting numerous Indian targets outside Kashmir - including last week's attacks in Mumbai in which 188 people died.

It has strongly denied being responsible for the Mumbai violence and most other incidents outside of Indian-administered Kashmir for which it has been accused.

Military strikes

But the Lashkar is nevertheless on the list of banned terrorist groups compiled by the US state department.

Mr Muntazir was speaking to the media at the Markaz-e-Tayyaba (Centre of the Pure) compound set up by Jamaat-ud-Dawa in Pakistan's Punjab province.




We have nothing to hide here

Abdullah Muntazir


Lashkar-e-Toiba profile

The compound is commonly referred to as the main headquarters of the Jamaat-ud-Dawa.

It has also been described by Indian - and sometimes Pakistani - media as a training facility for Lashkar militants.

This perception has hardened since the attacks in Mumbai, with some Indian commentators talking about launching military strikes on the compound.

For this reason Jamaat-ud-Dawa hosted on open house for local and foreign journalists, including the BBC, on Thursday.

The centre is located outside the town of Muridke, about 40km (25 miles) from the eastern city of Lahore in central Punjab.

A small dusty lane leads off the main Grand Trunk Road through a small settlement of farmers and labourers to the gates of the compound.

Basic curriculum

Inside its 75-acre grounds are educational and residential facilities.

There is a secondary school for girls, a high school for boys and two madarassas, or religious schools, one each for girls and boys and hostels for the students.


The compound has been labelled as a training facility for militants

We were taken on a tour of the entire complex by Mr Muntazir and his team.

"We have classes here until Intermediate (Pakistan equivalent of high school/'A' Levels)," says Rashid Minhas, principal of science.

"The subjects include English and the sciences. We have fully furnished labs here as well as facilities that you would find in any good school in Pakistan.

"The basic curriculum is the same as that taught all over Pakistan, with an added focus on Islam."

According to Mr Minhas, there are 530 boys and 345 girls in the school.

School is in session as we pass through the classrooms.

In the physics lab, a group of students are putting together a circuit which transfers electricity to a lightbulb.

As the bulb flashes red, the students exchange smiles of accomplishment. The same scene could be replicated across countless other schools in Pakistan.

School setting

One student, Zohaib Naveed, says he is in class eight and comes from a nearby town.

He hopes to be an engineer when he grows up.


Jamaat-ud-Dawa operates various social relief operations

When asked by one of the journalists who his leader is, he says simply "Quaid-e-Azam". He is referring to Mohammad Ali Jinnah, founder of Pakistan.

In an adjoining class, students are conducting an experiment, using hydrochloric acid to produce a gas.

They smile and shyly pose for the camera, just like any other normal children in a school setting.

The difference is, because of the allegations levelled against Jamaat-ud-Dawa, their activities could well be deemed as "militant training".

But if that really is the case, the atmosphere in the school and the entire complex is remarkably open and easy.

Nearby is a newly-constructed 60-bed hospital which treats dozens of people daily.

The centre of the compound is dominated by a huge mosque, surrounded by the educational facilities, the residential complex and a small shopping centre

Men and women move about freely and there is no evidence of any militants or training facilities.

At the barrier at the main gate of the complex the guards were carrying no arms.

The entire complex, in fact, closely represents a university campus.

It appears to be nowhere near the armed training camp described in many - possibly speculative - stories in the international media.

"We have nothing to hide here," says Abdullah Muntazir.

"You can see with your own eyes that the focus is on education and welfare activities. We have nothing to do with Lashkar-e-Toiba.

"We have always followed the laws and regulations of Pakistan, and we believe the government will protect us in the face of these false accusations."
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Dmurphy »

CRamS wrote:
NRao wrote:How LOW can Pakistanis get?

Imran warns England from travelling to India
Cheap human being.
With human beings like these, we other human beings have the gall to suggest that animals are uncivilized. This Jihadi Mofo is probably disappointed that the terror attacks by his Paki boys didn't have the desired effect of reducing India to TSP :-).
Now check this out. Got this from Cricinfo
"The terrorists will never target cricketers, knowing that they will then lose the battle of hearts and minds of the people. Cricketers are safe in Pakistan."
Former Pakistan captain turned politician, Imran Khan, says there is no security threat to cricketers in his country

Nov 21, 2008
nsa_tanay
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by nsa_tanay »

Are Indian lives cheaper than American ones == YES

but why indian lives are cheaper ?
They have a strong military .... smart economist who can sell their debts to other counties ....

Condi RIce came to india first and all media and politicians went gaga ..... and everyone started shouting ... US is with us ...what happened when she went to pakistan ..... role reversal ....

Bush will say we are with INDIA and everybody starts contemplating joint strikes by US and INDIA ...
Obama will say this is a mayhem for india and the world and we will hurrah ... world is with us

we have made ourselves into joke

Americans themselves value american lives .... DO WE IN INDIA ?


few foolish in our country believes of a joint Indo , US strike. Considering that such a strike will harm US interests in pakistan and US will never act or think beyond its own selfish interests. Such a active cooperation with India is unthinkable.

Again .... The americans are our masters. So Indian lives cheaper than American ones.[/size] We must take their permission before executing each and every plan that we make.
Last edited by Rahul M on 05 Dec 2008 11:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: DON"T use large fonts.
ramana
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by ramana »

Guys stop whining. Might need to warn you and after three strikes its auto ban. I dont like to ban if possible.
kvjayan
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by kvjayan »

[quote
Got this from Cricinfo
"The terrorists will never target cricketers, knowing that they will then lose the battle of hearts and minds of the people. Cricketers are safe in Pakistan."
Former Pakistan captain turned politician, Imran Khan, says there is no security threat to cricketers in his country

Nov 21, 2008
[/quote]

So, as long as the terrorists don't target cricketers, they (the terrorists) are assured of the hearts and minds of the Paki people.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Sumeet »

Crosspost:

Badhai ho Badhai ho !!!

To understand my happiness, please watch the video of Sagarika Ghosh's latest show:


Living in denial? Pak slams terror link proof

Sagarika is enlightened. If IBN & NDTV can be made to realize some core principles that define a puke according to BRF, work becomes easier for others even those politicians who are relaxed when it comes to tackling puke terror.

NOTE: You can only capture the change in Sagarika when you see the video. Simply reading text will not do. And some sentences she uses which contain key phrases are unfortunately not reproduced in the written text. You can only find them in video.

For the lazy ones I will go through the video again tomm and put those specific quotes out for BRFites to read.

Also, paging gurus like Shiv, SSridhar, Ramana, Acharya, Rye, Surinder, CRS, Shaurya, Rangudu that now is the best time to make your analysis on pukistan public. With Sagarika in that mood it will be easy to get what is routine kind of posts on BRF hosted on IBN as articles.
RayC
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by RayC »

NRao wrote:How LOW can Pakistanis get?

Imran warns England from travelling to India
Pakistan cricket legend Imran Khan has advised England against travelling to India for a two-match Test series in the wake of last week's Mumbai killings, pointing out that Westerners especially Britons were the prime targets of the terrorists.
Cheap human being.
It sure hurts Imran that foreign teams have no confidence in Pakistan and yet are showing confidence that India will overcome the threat.

Poor Imran.
AdityaM
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by AdityaM »

NRao wrote:How LOW can Pakistanis get?
Imran warns England from travelling to India
Pakistan cricket legend Imran Khan has advised England against travelling to India for a two-match Test series in the wake of last week's Mumbai killings, pointing out that Westerners especially Britons were the prime targets of the terrorists.
Cheap human being.
The motives of the attack were clear the day Paki FM went back to Pakstan & did his media interview:
He gleefully gave out the motives in his gloating.

He referred to a few important hints
- India doesnot know what has hit it (Glee apparent in his face)
- The foreign investors are pulling out due to the attack
- tourists are going back
- They are going to face economic loss
Infact he said a few very pointed statements, but i cant recall now

To me that was the gist of this entire terror operation.
They have ensured that India is seen in the same light as Pakistan when it comes to international view of these 2 countries...
When the last round of blasts took place, the Pak cricket board had openly said that now they expect that other countries (Aus/England) will not play cricket in india just as they had cancelled the matches after the Marriot blast.

They are loath to have india seen in a different vein as them.

these are just my rants...everybody here already knows better.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by rohitvats »

Posting an article/analysis on the Mumbai attack. Posting in full as I do not know if they archive the stuff. This is one brave pakistani btw.

Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan
By Syed Saleem Shahzad
KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian security forces during their three-day rampage last week.

What did not go according to plan was the capture of 21-year-old Ajmal Amir Kesab, who has given details of the militants' plot that was hatched by elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the LET, including the training of the mission's members at PNS Iqbal (a naval commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the capital Islamabad.

This single arrest has played very badly with the separate plans of Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda. And beyond the escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the crucial question now arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully clamp down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward section officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga?

"Everybody wishes for a war between India and Pakistan," a middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times Online on condition of anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for the battle to happen, today all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for battle between India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for the mujahideen from Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer offered when there is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to remove all fear and pressure and grant victory.)

The militants obviously want their war, but the United States now wants war on the militants, and therein lies a major problem.

US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is in Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, following her visit to India. Asia Times Online contacts say that Mullen's overriding message will be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has renamed itself Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the Mumbai plot.

ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section head (a major) allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to be turned into the Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.) Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes were made at the top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in which the major was able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without the knowledge of his superiors.
Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military on the spot, and it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants.

Militant support
The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of Karachi, on November 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after the Mumbai attack on November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the garrison city twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting held in the Office of Strategic Organization.

He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and asked what possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed assured that the LET would be the first line of defense against the Indian navy in the Arabian Sea through its marine operations, and that it would escalate its activities in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell militants in Pakistan's troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold their fire against the Pakistani security forces.

At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes, all militant training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir, were evacuated.

A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing for journalists in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its forces along the border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from NWFP, where they are fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that hardline Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others would support Pakistan if India waged war on the country.

Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue process with the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and conditions for pulling out the Pakistani troops.

An almost perfect plan
The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He had cased the Jewish community center that was attacked and where several people were killed. His information was that it was being used by Israeli intelligence - Mossad.

Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET, and its well-trained commandos then carried out their meticulously planned operation in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours.

Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic targets immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's arrest prevented this through his revelations of his LET background.

Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not carried out at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or even by the ISI's high command. But there is now proof of the involvement of the LET and of some junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US will apply pressure on Islamabad: it must curtail such militants.

But there is a problem.

Militants tighten their grip
The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with militancy spilling over from the tribal areas into this province.

In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60 people from the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired army officers and members or relatives of the Awami National Party (ANP), which rules in the province. The Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations to the ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus.

Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply convoys passing through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have come under increasing attacks. In the most recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers in supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar.

In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with its well-defined vertical command structure under the single command of Saeed, could commit its several thousand members, virtually a para-military force, to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani militants.

What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing this is its under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If the authorities start to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could break loose inside the country.

Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be a severe reaction from the more hardline elements in that organization, as well as in the military.

To date, the authorities have not given any indication of their plans. If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and Rice, it is most likely that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the Swat Valley and Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the Taliban-led insurgency n Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch further attacks on India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia region.

Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally unappealing, and potentially as disastrous.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can be reached at [email protected]
rohitvats
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by rohitvats »

BR Fellowites must be aware of the anger of the Navy Chief and his comments on Burkha Dutt. PLease see the link below for Burkha's take on the situation and her snide remark on the Naval Chief:

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/mu ... pe=opinion

some exceprts:
Finally, I would like to point out that the Navy Chief made a factually incorrect and wholly untrue comment on NDTV's coverage during the Kargil conflict of 1999, claiming that NDTV asked for a gun to be triggered for the benefit of the camera. I want to state for the record: no such incident ever took place and we have an official aknowledgment of that, including from then Army Chief, V.P Malik. I would urge Admiral Mehta to read General V.P Malik's book on Kargil for further clarity. General Malik was the Army Chief during the operations and puts to rest any such controversy in his book. In a formal letter, NDTV has also asked for an immediate retraction from the Navy and officially complained that the comments amount to defamation. Several writers have already pointed out how the Navy Chief has got his facts wrong. (DNA, Indian Express, Vir Sanghvi in The Hindustan Times, Sankarshan Thakur in The Telegraph). This, incidentally, was the same press conference where the Admiral threatened literally to "chop the heads off" of two other reporters who aired his interview ahead of schedule.
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Nesoj »

Even the Pukis are puking at their state of affairs
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2008_pg3_1
Around 200 Punjab University (PU) students staged a protest on Wednesday against the Islami Jamiat-e Tulaba (IJT), after 10 students were injured in crossfire between the IJT and the United Students Federation (USF). Who could have thought of a “counter-union” in PU, but the fact is that the students, completely exhausted in their patience tolerating IJT hegemony, have decided to push back. Many governments have been defeated in their resolve to liberate the University and have had to face humiliation. But will these students survive?

Luckily, backed by a no-nonsense governor as chancellor, the vice-chancellor of Punjab University is plucky enough to be impartial in applying the law. He has been compelling the semi-criminal non-students to leave hostel rooms occupied for years, and is no longer willing to be the IJT’s poodle. In the past, when a general was vice-chancellor and another general chancellor (governor of the province), the old tyranny held sway on the campus. It was virtually a mullah-military alliance. The high-water mark was reached when Imran Khan was beaten up inside the campus
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by asbchakri »

Another 'Great' News for Porkistan

LeT not a creation of ISI, says US military expert

H John Poole is Marine combat veteran of Vietnam, specialising in small unit and individual tactics. He rose to the rank of a Gunnery Sergeant (Gunny), a high rank among Marines.


He has written a series of books on tactics and strategies in commando warfare. Two of his books Tactics of the crescent moon: Militant Muslim Combat Methods and Militant Tricks: Battlefield Ruses of the Islamic Insurgent became required reading for Special Forces soldiers in Iraq. Poole, in an email interview, placed the Mumbai attacks in a strategic affairs context and also talked about why Islamic militants aren’t the only source of worry for India.

...........................
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Re: Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Post by Lalmohan »

the disinformation and dissipation of urgency campaign is well underway. munna's friends are trying to take the heat off by blaming India's many ills...
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