Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Dec 2008 14:57

Regarding the incident where Barka Dutt got 3 indian solders killed, wasn't that confirmed in Gen Malik's book while she claims he gave NDTV a clean chit. Guys anybody have any excerpts where the truth can be brought out???????

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Dec 2008 15:07

rohitvats wrote:BR Fellowites must be aware of the anger of the Navy Chief and his comments on Burkha Dutt. PLease see the link below for Burkha's take on the situation and her snide remark on the Naval Chief:

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/mu ... pe=opinion

some exceprts:

Finally, I would like to point out that the Navy Chief made a factually incorrect and wholly untrue comment on NDTV's coverage during the Kargil conflict of 1999, claiming that NDTV asked for a gun to be triggered for the benefit of the camera. I want to state for the record: no such incident ever took place and we have an official aknowledgment of that, including from then Army Chief, V.P Malik. I would urge Admiral Mehta to read General V.P Malik's book on Kargil for further clarity. General Malik was the Army Chief during the operations and puts to rest any such controversy in his book. In a formal letter, NDTV has also asked for an immediate retraction from the Navy and officially complained that the comments amount to defamation. Several writers have already pointed out how the Navy Chief has got his facts wrong. (DNA, Indian Express, Vir Sanghvi in The Hindustan Times, Sankarshan Thakur in The Telegraph). This, incidentally, was the same press conference where the Admiral threatened literally to "chop the heads off" of two other reporters who aired his interview ahead of schedule.

Here is what Gen. V.P.Malik says in his book about Barkha Dutt.

After the war, I invited Barkha Dutt (a well known TV journalist known for her corageous reporting) who had covered the war commendably, to my office. I complimented her for her professionalism. Lightheartedly I also mentioned about her letting out classified information in her professional enthusiasm by pointing out that during her coverage, she had given away a hint that our next objective would be Tiger Hill. She had obviously surmised that from the ongoing 'softening up' of this objective by the artillery bombardments and the IAF.

During our conversation, I found out that she had something else on her mind, which was troubling her. She asked me if her speaking on the Iridium satellite phone could have given away the location of our guns or troopsand thus helped the enemy to engage them with artillery. When I told her that we too were using such telephones and that the Pakistan Army did not have such monitoring equipment, she appeared quite relieved

Obviously, Ms. BD cannot claim she has been exonerated by Gen. Malik.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 05 Dec 2008 16:43

Very true shiv. We cannot address lack of security/intelligence in isolation. We cannot somehow expect that even if there is corruption, security/intelligence infrastructure will work. There is a long painful cleanup of all systems. We cannot just pay taxes and expect the politicians to do the job. We need to force the politicians to answer. Where do we start? Look for the smaller battles first. NationalID and ITfication of every government function would go a long way in cleaning up the system. We need to join such efforts. We need to force the govt to accelerate the move towards NationalID + ITfication. Those are easier, glamor-less battles but will create long term benefits by bringing down corruption (at least at the lower levels). This breaks the money supply for the lower level folks.

shiv wrote:
milindc wrote:Shiv,

As you rightly said, the joint-investigation is as ridiculous as asking the rapist to join the 'medical examination' of victim.
MilindC - that is why I am beginng to suspect that what neelkamal wrote earlier fits in wvery well with the coruption in goverment theory.

Various MPs and MLAs have goondas and criminals on speed dial who are used for the odd murder or extortion. These criminals are assets and in any case they cannot be gotten rid of because of a tricky balance between police, mafia and ploitician.

The Police protects the politician. The politician tells the police to go easy on mafia. The mafia reach an agreement with police not to touch the police or politician. If any one of these breaks their promise - its open war. The politcian is the guy who is not directly in the line of fire - but he can get killed if this happens - so he continues to protect criminals.

So when Indian people ask politicians for explanations they blame Pakistan initially. When Pakistan says bugger off the politcians come back to Indians and say "We have given a list and Pakistan is going to join us in fighting terror"

The truth is Indian people are being taken for a ride by Pakistan as well as by it own government. That is why you have people saying "Oh these things happen in big cities" and the politicians need NSG guards - mostly from their mafia enemies.

I believe our country is in a serious situation - not so much because of Pakistan, but because of negligent, greedy and criminal politicians. But soon the Pakistan problem may overtake everything else and we may end up losing more and more - unless we can kick our polity in the backside now and keep kicking them till their qibla changes.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Dec 2008 17:05

NRao wrote:How LOW can Pakistanis get?

Imran warns England from travelling to India

Pakistan cricket legend Imran Khan has advised England against travelling to India for a two-match Test series in the wake of last week's Mumbai killings, pointing out that Westerners especially Britons were the prime targets of the terrorists.
Cheap human being.

Does Imran Khan know something, that he is not pronouncing clearly. We have stories making the rounds in "Indian Response to Terrorism Thread" on nuclear threats being made.

Would Imran Khan be privy to possible upcoming attacks (nuclear/conventional) at India, and out of sheer love of Great Britain and Jemima Khan and cricket is letting them know, that it is not safe to be there. Certainly Imran does move around in those circles, close to the fundoo TSPA-wallahs.

neelkamal · Post by **neelkamal** » 05 Dec 2008 17:20

Just out - Fahim Ansari the terrorist arrested in Feb this year, had hand drawn maps on Mumbai, with timings to reach places on foot. Ignored, and lost under pile of chargesheet itseems....

MY god the ineptitude of ATS is appalling!!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Dec 2008 17:28

neelkamal wrote:Just out - Fahim Ansari the terrorist arrested in Feb this year, had hand drawn maps on Mumbai, with timings to reach places on foot. Ignored, and lost under pile of chargesheet itseems....

MY god the ineptitude of ATS is appalling!!!

It may be underfunding and overwork on politically directed targets.

Terroirsm has not been high on the agenda.

Do you think Mayawati has 350 guards because the LeT wants her? It is her political enemies who want to get her.

Did you see the angry look on slit-eye Rane's face when he realised that he isn't going to be CM of Maharashtra? Our political people need NSG to protect them from each other and Mafia. If we did not have the NSG - our political masters would have private militia of their own who would serve the double purpose of protecting them and intimidating/taking out political enemies.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 05 Dec 2008 17:34

shiv wrote:
neelkamal wrote:Just out - Fahim Ansari the terrorist arrested in Feb this year, had hand drawn maps on Mumbai, with timings to reach places on foot. Ignored, and lost under pile of chargesheet itseems....

MY god the ineptitude of ATS is appalling!!!

It may be underfunding and overwork on politically directed targets.

Terroirsm has not been high on the agenda.

Do you think Mayawati has 350 guards because the LeT wants her? It is her political enemies who want to get her.

Did you see the angry look on slit-eye Rane's face when he realised that he isn't going to be CM of Maharashtra? Our political people need NSG to protect them from each other and Mafia. If we did not have the NSG - our political masters would have private militia of their own who would serve the double purpose of protecting them and intimidating/taking out political enemies.

One of the reports on TimesNow, stated that
Less than 1% of police force is used for Intelligence
33% is used for protection of Politicians

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Dec 2008 17:40

the number in dilli would be > 50%

neelkamal · Post by **neelkamal** » 05 Dec 2008 17:58

shiv wrote: Do you think Mayawati has 350 guards because the LeT wants her? It is her political enemies who want to get her.

Did you see the angry look on slit-eye Rane's face when he realised that he isn't going to be CM of Maharashtra? Our political people need NSG to protect them from each other and Mafia. If we did not have the NSG - our political masters would have private militia of their own who would serve the double purpose of protecting them and intimidating/taking out political enemies.

Private Militia seems like a better idea - why should NSG, commandos waste their time protecting buffoons ? Let them get their own security, and pay for them out of their own pockets.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 05 Dec 2008 18:02

asbchakri wrote:Another 'Great' News for Porkistan

LeT not a creation of ISI, says US military expert

H John Poole is Marine combat veteran of Vietnam, specialising in small unit and individual tactics. He rose to the rank of a Gunnery Sergeant (Gunny), a high rank among Marines.

Someone shpould show him the written quotes of Hussein Haqqani, current Baki amby to the US, about the founding interests of the ISI in LeT and later JuD. This was during his think tank days, now he is part of the establishment and will likely claim he was wrong then.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Dec 2008 18:21

neelkamal wrote:
shiv wrote: Do you think Mayawati has 350 guards because the LeT wants her? It is her political enemies who want to get her.

Did you see the angry look on slit-eye Rane's face when he realised that he isn't going to be CM of Maharashtra? Our political people need NSG to protect them from each other and Mafia. If we did not have the NSG - our political masters would have private militia of their own who would serve the double purpose of protecting them and intimidating/taking out political enemies.
Private Militia seems like a better idea - why should NSG, commandos waste their time protecting buffoons ? Let them get their own security, and pay for them out of their own pockets.

Neelkamal - they will fight gangwars then.

The NSG are only good for protection. They will not "hit"a rival politician. Only Mafia will do that. That is how mafia is tolerated. But Mafia is not for politicians alone. They are used by private individuals as well apart from the mafias own interests.

Typically criminal gangs are used in extortion/protection rackets, land dealings, smuggling contraband, hawala, drugs and for other minor stuff. You can see how at least some of these activities coincide with the needs of wealthy politicians in power. In exchange the police are kept in control and the police will not hit the mafia in some areas.

In other words the criminals are allowed some autonomy of action in a wink and nod system that needs the mafia for certain things.

But when that same mafia "turns traitor" and performs anti-national activities - the police and politician sometimes cannot nail them without compromising themselves. The system is a symbiotic one. You can ask (of nature and life on earth) whether the eco system can survive without snakes. the saem way the India political-criminal nexus has reached levels of interdependence that are very high.

But in this case we must fight he snakes and their political patronage. The "idealist" political leaders of the 1940s are gone. We are left with a elf serving bunch for whom the country is working by itself. We need to scrutinize every politician and every police official with a critical eye to see what degree of involvement they have with criminals.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 05 Dec 2008 18:39

Gunnery Sgt is a high rank?

http://www.militaryfactory.com/ranks/marine_ranks.asp

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 05 Dec 2008 18:44

Here we go again. BRFiites blaming the US for India's failure to do anything.

How about kicking all paki players out of the ICL/IPL. Declaring a cricket boycott of TSP...put the word out that any team playing with TSP will be on India's shit list..and if multiple countries play, one country will be selected for sanctions?

How about kicking pakis out of indian shows?

How about shutting off the water at the right time and denying the TSP indus water commissioner a visa to inspect Baglihar?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 05 Dec 2008 19:16

its D + 11 days and counting are we knocking some balls in Delhi ( like the way the say for Base ball batters) or is there a shortage of balls still

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 05 Dec 2008 19:47

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/world ... ml?_r=1&hp

A lot more details about the planning and execution of the attack...

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 05 Dec 2008 19:55

Dawood's Address:

"Moin Palace"
opposite Abdullah Shah Ghazi Dargah
Clifton, Karachi

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 05 Dec 2008 19:57

Ashok Chavan next CM:

Qualifications:

50-year-old Ashok Chavan inherited the poitical legacy of his late father and former Chief Minister S B Chavan, becoming the first father-son duo in the state's history to adorn the Chief Ministerial chair. The senior Chavan was a loyalist of the Nehru-Gandhi family.

(indian express)

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 05 Dec 2008 20:02

Prediction:

This will be the headline 15 years from now:

"Terrorist Blows up Bangalore Hospital.
The pakistani had a open heart surgery at the same hospital in 2004, the terrorist was recruited by ISI/LeT after being told that the successful operation involved blood transfusion from a hindu"

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 05 Dec 2008 20:51

http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... 2&Itemid=1

Muslim outfit asks Centre to chase and kill Pak terrorists
Piyush Srivastava
Lucknow, December 5, 2008

It’s an act of solidarity with the Centre and the people. The All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) — which reportedly represents the minority voice in the country — expressed its outrage over last week’s Mumbai terror attacks and demanded tougher and decisive measures soon.

The Muslim body asked the UPA government to “chase and eliminate” the four big ‘terror’ fish — currently in Pakistan — who are on India’s most wanted list. These noted terrorist include Hafiz Muhammed Saeed, head of Lashkar-e-Tayyeba; Syed Salahuddin, chief of Hijbul Mujahideen; Dawood Ibrahim, underworld don and main accused in the 1993 Mumbai blast; and Maulana Masood Azhar, founder of Jaish-e-Mohammed. Maulana Kalbe Sadiq, AIMPLB vice-president, said the nation stands firmly behind the UPA government in its battle against the terrorists. Khalid Rashid Firangimehli, a well-known Sunni cleric and an AIMPLB member, echoed Sadiq’s stand. “All existing problems can be solved if these four terrorists are eliminated. These people are running training camps in Pakistan and PoK. If required, the Centre should chase and kill them without any delay. We can assure you that we’ll support whatever stand the Centre takes in this regard,” Firangimehli said. Sadiq also has an advice for the neighbouring country: this is the right time for its government to act with an iron fist and save their nation.

He said: “The terrorists are like rats, with their holes dug out in Pakistan.” Firangimehli said: “Since it is clear that Pakistan and PoK are breeding grounds of these extremists, there shouldn’t be any hitch in destroying them to save our land.”

Sadiq’s stance assumes significance because he is a well-known Shia cleric with substantial following in the sub-continent and southeast Asian countries. He has written to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, stating the country’s Muslim community was fed up with the rise in terror attacks. “Forget that these men identify themselves with fellow Muslims. The fact remains that they are killers and so they should be killed. Don’t be scared of the votebank.

Just finish them!” he said. This is the toughest stand the country’s Muslim clerics have taken against terrorism. Earlier, Darul Uloom, Deoband, issued a fatwa against the terrorists and asked the community to fight against terror.

Courtesy: Mail Today

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 05 Dec 2008 21:06

neelkamal wrote:
MY god the ineptitude of ATS is appalling!!!

I'm trying to willfully ignore cause it is really aggravating. This institutional level indifference has basically translated into what you can see with your own eyes. There wasn't a cop on TV that didn't have big pot belly or generally out of fit. Their brave courage is late consolation for the training and regimen they should have been subject to.

And for christ sake lets burn and destroy all those WW1 era M1Garand lookalike Rifles. Its time we move into 20th century and arm them with sidearms and weapons.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 05 Dec 2008 21:09

It is interesting to see that some of the IM organization taking a clear stand on pakistani jehadi terrorists. Perhaps they also sense that a redline has been finally crossed and the famed hindu indifference/tolerance of terror has snapped. They do not want to be associated with the Paki sponsored terror now. They are almost pleading the "sardar" who is the PM to go ahead and take the terrorists on across the border.

On the other hand, it could also be a genuine feeling of revulsion that is finding expression. I hope that is the case and not just fear that what might happen to them if a hardline hindu backlash hapens that has resulted in these statements.

Whatever the motivation, now that their votebanks have given their signal, will the sardar live upto his heritage at least now?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Dec 2008 21:15

Nitesh wrote:http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... 2&Itemid=1

Muslim outfit asks Centre to chase and kill Pak terrorists
Piyush Srivastava
Lucknow, December 5, 2008

Mugambo khush hua!

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 05 Dec 2008 21:17

Because IM has been alerted that if ID10T Sardar MMS doesnt act the true Right wing nationalistic Party will emerge and put an end to this tail wagging the Dog P secular tamasha is over for good.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Dec 2008 21:31

John Snow wrote:Because IM has been alerted that if ID10T Sardar MMS doesnt act the true Right wing nationalistic Party will emerge and put an end to this tail wagging the Dog P secular tamasha is over for good.

I have always held that it isnt IM that are the problem but the INC which harbors snakes for its own purpose. Al these years it has been holding the IM as whipping boy for its own fake secular/liberal proclivities. It used the scared IM, immediately after Partition, as a votebank and at same time diverted the anger towards the IM instead of from itself. It was its rush/craze to get power that led to the Partition.

AkshayM · Post by **AkshayM** » 05 Dec 2008 21:34

Mumble singh is waiting for election results in states

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 05 Dec 2008 21:41

Raja Ram wrote:It is interesting to see that some of the IM organization taking a clear stand on pakistani jehadi terrorists. Perhaps they also sense that a redline has been finally crossed and the famed hindu indifference/tolerance of terror has snapped. They do not want to be associated with the Paki sponsored terror now. They are almost pleading the "sardar" who is the PM to go ahead and take the terrorists on across the border.

On the other hand, it could also be a genuine feeling of revulsion that is finding expression. I hope that is the case and not just fear that what might happen to them if a hardline hindu backlash hapens that has resulted in these statements.

Whatever the motivation, now that their votebanks have given their signal, will the sardar live upto his heritage at least now?

Raja Ram,
He is a Shia leader and very afraid that unless we act, the Wahabi sect will consume them as well. This is very significant statement.

Sadiq’s stance assumes significance because he is a well-known Shia cleric with substantial following in the sub-continent and southeast Asian countries.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Dec 2008 21:57

Nitesh wrote:http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... 2&Itemid=1

Muslim outfit asks Centre to chase and kill Pak terrorists
Piyush Srivastava
Lucknow, December 5, 2008

It’s an act of solidarity with the Centre and the people. The All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) — which reportedly represents the minority voice in the country — expressed its outrage over last week’s Mumbai terror attacks and demanded tougher and decisive measures soon.

The Muslim body asked the UPA government to “chase and eliminate” the four big ‘terror’ fish — currently in Pakistan — who are on India’s most wanted list. These noted terrorist include Hafiz Muhammed Saeed, head of Lashkar-e-Tayyeba; Syed Salahuddin, chief of Hijbul Mujahideen; Dawood Ibrahim, underworld don and main accused in the 1993 Mumbai blast; and Maulana Masood Azhar, founder of Jaish-e-Mohammed. Maulana Kalbe Sadiq, AIMPLB vice-president, said the nation stands firmly behind the UPA government in its battle against the terrorists. Khalid Rashid Firangimehli, a well-known Sunni cleric and an AIMPLB member, echoed Sadiq’s stand. “All existing problems can be solved if these four terrorists are eliminated. These people are running training camps in Pakistan and PoK. If required, the Centre should chase and kill them without any delay. We can assure you that we’ll support whatever stand the Centre takes in this regard,” Firangimehli said. Sadiq also has an advice for the neighbouring country: this is the right time for its government to act with an iron fist and save their nation.

He said: “The terrorists are like rats, with their holes dug out in Pakistan.” Firangimehli said: “Since it is clear that Pakistan and PoK are breeding grounds of these extremists, there shouldn’t be any hitch in destroying them to save our land.”

Sadiq’s stance assumes significance because he is a well-known Shia cleric with substantial following in the sub-continent and southeast Asian countries. He has written to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, stating the country’s Muslim community was fed up with the rise in terror attacks. “Forget that these men identify themselves with fellow Muslims. The fact remains that they are killers and so they should be killed. Don’t be scared of the votebank.

Just finish them!” he said. This is the toughest stand the country’s Muslim clerics have taken against terrorism. Earlier, Darul Uloom, Deoband, issued a fatwa against the terrorists and asked the community to fight against terror.

Courtesy: Mail Today

I thought the Shia has their own All India Shia Personal Law Board. What's Sadiq still doing in AIMPLB?

milindc,
Firangi Mehli, a Sunni, is also supporting this posture.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 05 Dec 2008 22:12

RajeshA wrote:http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... 2&Itemid=1

Muslim outfit asks Centre to chase and kill Pak terrorists
Piyush Srivastava
Lucknow, December 5, 2008
...

These statements are coming from Sarkari IM leaders and could be part of a GoI directive to these leaders to show solidarity with the rest of the population. The IM on the street may hear something different in the fiery friday sermons. He/She may go home secure in the knowledge that these 10 turds were wearing a red thread on their wrists and ofcourse looked SDRE according to the Paki minister so they were not IM or PM boys. Just prior to this this incident, GoI was shouting from rooftops about Hindu terrorism being a big problem and in their minds this might just be Hindu consipracy. I do not think there will be a real change in IM attitude towards India unless they sense a real loss of power is about to happen in the forthcoming elections. The friday prayer speeches will be a good indicator to the leanings of IM. Can anyone can provide inputs on that?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Dec 2008 22:14

Dont demean them as Sarkari IMs. They are Indian Muslim leaders. They are trying to get the control back from the Wahabized IMs.

I dont think you will hear this stuff from Friday sermons. India is not like that.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 05 Dec 2008 22:35

One question I have is to see if Indian public and govt response to Mumbai terrorist massacre is a little different from earlier attacks, is that for the first time many rich Indian people were also killed along with the faceless and worthless lower middle class and poor class people.

And those unlucky rich people would not have been killed had the terrorist not attacked 5 start hotels, and then life would cruise normally as always after 11 days of terrorist attack on Mumbai local trains, Delhi market place, Jaipur market and Mandirs, Hyderabad, or some foriegn, far off place like Assam or Manipur?

Life is so cheap, particularly if it is a low life form with less money or a person living more than 200 yards from where I or my near & dear live.

Carry on Indian people.

Life is caustic and so is this post.

PS: India will perhaps be saved if the terrorists kill a few MP's and legislators in the next round of lovefest for Allah.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 05 Dec 2008 22:48

The most comedy part is Rice getting it Islamabad....

It is poetic justice

First Unkil made TSP a nuke power
Unkil trained ISI ( aka Mujhadin, made movies on Charlie wilson war etc mega hits)
ISI transform into Taliban the students

Taliban turn into Alqeda
Alqeda fight brave US GIs
Now this is where the North Korean technology comes in now

If you start ops against TSP, we will attack your troops and also Nuke India

( see the typical TS Paki Lie just couple of days ago President Zaradari NFU by TSP)

Now Rice is taken aback because she is being served the same....

Lets see if it ends like in Puranas ( the epics of yore)

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 05 Dec 2008 22:53

RajeshA,
You are right that "Maulana Khalid Rashid of Firangi Mahal" is sunni cleric. But these set of guys are trying to guard IMs against Wahabism (as Ramana stated in earlier note).
We need to support these guys, especially the shias and drive wedge between sunnis and shias.

Read this article
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 963078.cms

Maulana Kalbe Sadiq seems to be the moderate voice among his peers.

In the article below Sadiq and Khalid Rashid seems to have opposite views on Family planning and co-education
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/20 ... 200511.htm

btw, Imagine with his current views on co-education, Khalid Rashid is considered Sunni moderate.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Dec 2008 22:58

Does anybody still know, what the Americans are doing in Afghanistan? Its been so long and my memory is weak.

Does it really make sense to sit in Afghanistan, having to feed the little Cerberus down South, while he grows more ferocious all the time, and would readily jump on you, once you have no meat left for the feeding.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Dec 2008 23:03

milindc wrote:RajeshA,
You are right that "Maulana Khalid Rashid of Firangi Mahal" is sunni cleric. But these set of guys are trying to guard IMs against Wahabism (as Ramana stated in earlier note).
We need to support these guys, especially the shias and drive wedge between sunnis and shias.

Read this article
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 963078.cms

Maulana Kalbe Sadiq seems to be the moderate voice among his peers.

In the article below Sadiq and Khalid Rashid seems to have opposite views on Family planning and co-education
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/20 ... 200511.htm

As a first reaction, I would say we should try to drive a wedge between the Barelvis and the Wahabbis. The wedge between Shias and Sunnis is deep enough on its own. Also a wedge between the Deobandis and Wahabbis may not be bad, but I don't know if there is so much space there, to get a wedge in in the first place.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Dec 2008 23:09

milindc wrote:Maulana Kalbe Sadiq seems to be the moderate voice among his peers.

In the article below Sadiq and Khalid Rashid seems to have opposite views on Family planning and co-education
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/20 ... 200511.htm

btw, Imagine with his current views on co-education, Khalid Rashid is considered Sunni moderate.

These guys, especially Sadiq, are too liberal for the board and seem to be in the minority. Their voice is not really the voice of the board. Pity!

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 05 Dec 2008 23:11

RajeshA wrote: As a first reaction, I would say we should try to drive a wedge between the Barelvis and the Wahabbis. The wedge between Shias and Sunnis is deep enough on its own. Also a wedge between the Deobandis and Wahabbis may not be bad, but I don't know if there is so much space there, to get a wedge in in the first place.

The shia-sunni divide needs to be taken to its logical end. Today's Peshawar blast that killed 20 was near Shia mosque (Imam bhara area)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Dec 2008 23:13

Islam in TSP has been transformed from religions to killigion. And people are slowly coming to terms with this. Those four fake 'mullas' are the fountianhead of the TSP killigion.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 05 Dec 2008 23:16

Perpetrators of Mumbai carnage should be punished: PM

Perpetrators of Mumbai carnage should be punished: PM
FULL COVERAGE
Press Trust Of India
New Delhi, December 05, 2008
First Published: 19:20 IST(5/12/2008)
Last Updated: 20:08 IST(5/12/2008)

Asserting that perpetrators of the Mumbai terror carnage should be punished, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Friday said India will await the outcome of the international community's efforts in this regard before deciding on its options.

Asked about the military, political and economic options before India in dealing with those behind the terror attacks, Singh responded with a cryptic "We will wait for the outcome" of the world community's efforts.

Singh, who was addressing a joint press conference with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev after their talks, made it clear that India wanted the US and others to put pressure on Pakistan to ensure that those behind the "horrible" crime in Mumbai are punished.

"I have impressed upon all the world leaders who called me that people of India feel a sense of hurt and anger as never seen before," he said.

"It is the obligation of all concerned to ensure that perpetrators of this horrible crime are brought to book. That is our message to everybody and anybody who have come here," Singh said.

His response came when asked whether India had requested US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, during her visit here on Wednesday, to tell Pakistan to arrest Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) chief Hafiz Mohd Saeed.

Underlining that "perpetrators of this crime should be brought to book", the Prime Minister said "this message" had been conveyed to Rice as also other world leaders.

er, what exactly is the honourable PM saying? That we can't do anything about it? That we need other countries to step in and solve the problem for us? That we can't do anything without persmission of other world powers????

Shows how impotent the GoI is today!! No wonder every tom, dick & harry thinks they can bitch slap india around and expect no retaliation!

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 05 Dec 2008 23:17

WTF is happening here???

Saudi King Abdullah has been urging the United Nations to pass a universal law prescribing imprisonment for criticizing Islam. Some skeptics, including myself (notwithstanding that I twice enjoyed the King's generous hospitality in Riyadh), have suggested he start instead by establishing religious liberty in his own country, where all religious observance other than Wahabi Islam is banned. Two events occurring last week -- the hideous carnage in Mumbai, accompanied by shameful proceedings at the U.N. -- convinced me it is urgent for His Majesty to radically alter his plans.

Since the U.N. actions were less publicized, let me begin there. A key U.N. committee passed by 85-50 the King's "Islamophobia" resolution, criminalizing any "defamation of religion," especially Islam. The General Assembly is expected to soon approve this measure. Governments will be directed to amend their criminal codes accordingly; the resolution will be incorporated into amorphous "customary international law," which liberal Supreme Court justices are relying on, notwithstanding that much of this "law" springs from anti-democratic sources. While "defamation of religion" conveys a sonorous label, Islamic countries consider "Islamophobic" any expression linking Islam to such subjects as 9/11, terror attacks, honor killings, suicide bombings, beheadings, executions by stoning, persecution of homosexuals, fatwas against authors, death threats to cartoonists, etc. The Organization of the Islamic Conference has decreed that even "hostile glances" are Islamophobic.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/ ... after.html

Do people realize what the guardians of Islam are thrusting upon us infidels? We are doomed with liberalism. We are finished.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 05 Dec 2008 23:20

Relax guys, all the PM meant to say was, look you better do as we say and that's the same message we've given to the international community. The idea is to put as much preassure on TSP.

Now, will they do as asked, probably NOT. Then the PM says we will take matters in to our own hands with all possible options on the table.

Get the message?